S08.E22: Crossfire

[Brit Babe]

Well, that was meh. I had no clue what was going on with Loksat or even what Loksat was in relation to Bracken.

Caskett's ending was clearly her dying on the kitchen floor and the empty loft was when he was moving out? The tagged on ending I suppose gave it some closure and much better than the alternative.

I said at the start of the season, that this was likely to be Castle's Alias season 5 and so it proved up to and including the flash forward "family and kids" final scene. The show didn't deserve this ending but between the hacks of the writing staff and BTS drama that had clearly been crippling it for a couple of seasons at least, I suppose it was inevitable.

13 hours ago, verdana said:

I'm loathe to say this but Hawley and Winter made me almost wish Marlowe was back in the saddle with his passive aggressive wife and I thought he was a hack!

And I agree with you. And I had issues shall we say with organic storytelling!

[McManda]

Quote

They went to all that trouble to hide their relationship, but in LA Castle told Mason (AKA LokSat) that they were still together. To his face. I remember people talking about how dumb that was. I guess it was intentional? 

If Castle mentioned he was still together with Beckett while he was in LA, that means it was before he knew Mason was LokSat. Which makes sense ... why would a random guy in charge of The Greatest Detective Society Ever living in LA have anything to do with LokSat or anything related to it or Bracken or Beckett's mom's murder? (Honestly, I would be more on board with the idea that Jerry Tyson wasn't dead and turned out to be LokSat. I still don't understand how the biggest of big bads ended up as the guy who I had to google to remember who he was.)

I'm still so confused by this ending. I think I'll keep mine either as them getting married (the first time, with Johanna's dress) and then adding on the kids tag or even as the season 7 finale and then adding on the kids tag. Either is a more cohesive, less "what just happened" ending.

Also, while we're on the topic of the kids ... am I the only one disappointed by the names? Lily is fine, I guess. Jake is also fine (but boring). Reece is ... one that doesn't really fit in with Lily and Jake. I don't know. It's picky, considering the wtf in general of the finale. I think I'm jaded by the plethora of great, well developed fanfic kids that were created. It took me a good five chapters to get into, but I'm really attached to Dash and Ellery from the Dash series. Characterization aside, the names like Dash and Ellery seem much more like something Castle and Beckett would have chosen; something unique, with meaning, and not totally off the wall (I was never on board with Cosmo). With the exception of Reece, Lily and Jake seem ... generic and boring. Maybe I'm missing something here, too.

(And this is how you know I've put too much thought into this show. I'll truly miss it, even though it definitely declined in the last 3 seasons.)

Edited May 17, 2016 by McManda

[verdana]

Lily is a good choice which fits but Jake and Reece...no.

But I suspect what they called the kids was the least of their worries!

I take it that the little girl was the actress getting pestered by some fans for asking about with she had filmed with Stana and Nathan because she only mentioned Nathan? Poor kid. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[Driad]

Lee Lofland's review.  Guess whether they liked it.

http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/castle-crossfire-a-disappointed-copbad-cop-review/

[Shellie]

4 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Well that was anticlimactic.

It is glaringly obvious that they meant for this to be a season ending cliffhanger with us coming back in September to a dead Beckett and a mourning Castle.

That tack-on in the last 23 seconds was a confusing joke. If they were going to do a bullshit tag like that it should've been at elast 5 minutes long.

I've only watched about 10 episodes total of this show, and none in the past few years. I've had a casual interest in it because a friend has loved it since the very beginning, and he would talk about the storylines sometimes.  (He got tired of the Loksat stuff.)  I heard about the probability of Beckett being killed off at the end of this season and the show getting canceled, etc., and I watched this finale out of curiosity.  I couldn't agree more with what you said there.  I had really hoped they had filmed an alternate ending, and that's what we'd see back at the loft.  But no.  

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, femmefan1946 said:

but I wonder how she would have reacted if her husband or his mother and only child had been killed due to her obsessive need to hunt down Locksat? Where does it all end? Someone should have put the question to her surely?

In my headcanon the reason Beckett is at home with the children is that 1PP looked into her record and fired her ass for blatant idiocy and getting all those cops she dragged to the CIA headquarters killed.

The force might overlook a few dead civilians, but officers? Nope.

Did cops die? I missed that part.

Espo had a throwaway line about how there were going to be hearings about everything that happened. That's probably the most realistic comment of the season. My biggest complaint this year (well, almost biggest) is how bad they made Beckett at her job.

13 minutes ago, McManda said:

If Castle mentioned he was still together with Beckett while he was in LA, that means it was before he knew Mason was LokSat. Which makes sense ... why would a random guy in charge of The Greatest Detective Society Ever living in LA have anything to do with LokSat or anything related to it or Bracken or Beckett's mom's murder? (Honestly, I would be more on board with the idea that Jerry Tyson wasn't dead and turned out to be LokSat. I still don't understand how the biggest of big bads ended up as the guy who I had to google to remember who he was.

It was before he knew he was LokSat, but wasn't the whole point of the fake break up so that NO ONE knew they were together? I mean they lied to Martha, Alexis, Espo, Ryan, Lanie, etc, but Castle tells a stranger.

God, this whole LokSat thing was dumb.

[McManda]

Quote

It was before he knew he was LokSat, but wasn't the whole point of the fake break up so that NO ONE knew they were together? I mean they lied to Martha, Alexis, Espo, Ryan, Lanie, etc, but Castle tells a stranger.

Maybe, but I saw their fake breakup more as being a cover to keep Castle (and his family) safe by withholding the information from the people that could also potentially be targeted. I don't think it's out of character for Castle to get a little starstruck with Mason Wood and let his guard down because he thinks Wood is no threat (because again, why would he be?) and spill his secrets. Besides, their fake separation was on the rocks anyway (it was the next episode where they decide to forget it).

I mean, yeah, LokSat ended up being over the top and dumb. That was made worse by them involving Mason Wood at all, IMO.

[Sandman]

On May 17, 2016 at 9:04 AM, madmaverick said:

I disagree that Castle's "I love you" in the park was empty of emotion.  I think Nathan actually made a pretty good acting choice to convey what Castle was feeling in that moment.  Beckett had just told him not to make 'that face', which was the burdened, subdued face of worry and glumness.  He was dead worried it would all go sideways when they separated, and it showed despite his restraint.  He tried to reassure Beckett but he could barely bring himself to smile because of his fears.   I thought he was also excellent in the scene where he was forced to name his love ones.  

This is how I saw it, too. I think Castle was trying hard to show less than he was feeling, and couldn't manage to betray nothing of his turmoil. To convey a character's underlying anguish and the simultaneous attempt to school one's features to hide it can't be the easiest scene to play.

At the same time, I don't have much trouble with how Katic played Beckett's reaction in the incinerator room; it might have been subdued out of pure shock, as in "You -- you put him where?" I think she also might have been trying to decide if Mason was toying with her to get in her head, and she wouldn't want to reveal more of her emotional state to him in the heat (if you'll pardon the expression) of battle than she could absolutely help.   

Edited May 22, 2016 by Sandman

[Shellie]

3 hours ago, tankgirl73 said:

Re-watching the '7 years later' bit again though... I notice that they're holding hands at the end in exactly the same way they're holding hands when they're bleeding out. So I do suspect that they were planning to use that clip either way. I'd guess... the episode ends with them bleeding on the floor. Then season 9 opens with this domestic-bliss scene.... it's all dream-like and fuzzy (and uncharacteristically well-lit)... it ends with them holding hands, the camera lingers on the hands in closeup, then it fades and morphs to their hands as they are still lying on the floor bleeding out. Kate starts muttering, eyes half-closed... "Lily... Reese..."  Castle is slightly more alert and asks what she's talking about. She mumbles something more about "our kids... they're so beautiful..." then she dies.

Y'know, this gave me a creepy thought that they really might have planned to use this scene in season 9.  I was thinking it might be a fantasy for Castle of what might have been.  Maybe they'd open with it, as you suggest, but then it would fade to their hands in the last scene of season 8, then come around to Castle sitting there in mourning.  : shudder :  

Boy, that would have been a turn of the screw.  

[FlickerToAFlame]

It's horrifying thinking about how, had there been a season 9, the showrunners were going to end the story of Beckett in the worst possible way. Bled out on her kitchen floor, shot by the organization that killed her mother. The three children likely shown as salt in the wound fantasy either through Beckett's dying thoughts or Castle's dreams that would never be. 

They obviously didn't want that button scene to ever be seen (in that context), so I don't think that if given the option they would have given the fans even a scrap of good. I actually think they would have passive aggressively made it as bad as possible. 

[Sandman]

The showrunners had at least as much of an opportunity to be passive-aggressive with this series finale, and, I would say, didn't take it. So I'm not convinced that any ninth season would have been a drawn-out "FU, Internet!" to the show's fans.

[tljgator]

<random> As everyone mentions dying Castle and Beckett holding hands, it reminds me of the season art work of them laying over the chalk body outlines on the ground together.</random>

...the only "positive" I found to share in my final ABC Studio super-special Castle panel was "at least it wasn't as bad as the Dexter finale" (faint praise if ever there was). Just terrible, all around. *sigh*

[GoGiants]

In the context of the entire show, I thought it was an awful finale made even worse by the last few weeks. In the context of S8, it was exactly what I expected. I assumed it would be Loksat for the majority of the hour and that there would be an awkward wrap up sequence. So my expectations were met! ;)

I did not love Hollanders Woods but it did leave me wanting a bit more. I felt like it was a decent stopping place and it honored the shows roots (Castle and Beckett as both a couple and crime solving partnership, Castle as a writer, moments with the whole cast, some family moments). I left off imagining them fighting crime with the boys, out on new adventures, maybe having kids, but the important part for me was that they were together as a couple and partnership. Last night had no resemblance whatsoever to what once made this show so enjoyable. What I saw made me grateful that it is over and done. I definitely did not want to see whatever low budget action movie/goofball comedy junk they were going to fling at the show in S9. 

I was waiting for Dr Evil or a scenery chewing Bond villain to appear when Castle was strapped to that table. I am still floored by the stupid spy stuff (ultra targeted memory erasure, magnet ceiling!?!?) that they've thrown out there like no big deal this season. I do think NF delivered the goods in that scene when he had to name his family and friends, ridiculous as the circumstances may have been. NF has always seemed very capable in the tough guy/dramatic scenes. 

Superficially I enjoyed seeing Beckett dressed in costume as s1-7 Beckett. Loved that jacket. I thought NF was looking good as well. 

I too loved that promo photo of them together. Sad it didn't make the episode. 

As tacked on and abrupt as that ending was, it beats wondering all summer about how they'd make this mess worse in now hypothetical S9. The choices were all terrible and I had no belief in the writers, actors and production teams ability to continue on even with Beckett in S9, let alone without her! So I'll take that ending for what it was. Not ideal, but it didn't utterly destroy things the way I thought they might when I first heard abt SK. 

Nothing like truly horrible storytelling to make mediocre storytelling look a whole lot better. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by GoGiants

[LisaM]

I'm just glad that Beckett and Castle are alive and together ...and have three kids! 

[tankgirl73]

Oh... almost forgot... in the 'truth serum' scene, when we first saw Mal-er-I-mean-Castle hung up-er-I-mean-strapped-down, did anyone else expect Nishka-er-I-mean-Flynn to cut off his ear and send it to Beckett?

Either way, I knew NF was going to knock this scene out of the park. Because he did last time too.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Adorable:

@SteibBob My twins Brady & Tyler Steib with Stana Katic @AJSteib #castle https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cis76bNUUAA3CbN.jpg:large

[smiley13]

So I guess the sadistic creep was a Brady Bunch fan?  Of all the random songs to feature.

Edited May 18, 2016 by smiley13

[KaveDweller]

22 minutes ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

Adorable:

@SteibBob My twins Brady & Tyler Steib with Stana Katic @AJSteib #castle https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cis76bNUUAA3CbN.jpg:large

Are people going to complain that they didn't also tweet a picture with Nathan? (kidding) 

That's an adorable picture and it almost makes me change my mind about wanting Castle and Beckett to only have one kid. They look like really could be their kids. Mostly Nathan, but a little bit Stana.

Someone mentioned that Castle/Beckett were holding hands the same way in the bleeding out scene as the time jump scene, and I noticed that too. At first I thought that was done to show the time jump scene was not real and was happening in their heads while they were lying on the floor, but I didn't like that idea so I decided it must just be that they like to hold hands like that.

Also, I watched the last scene again (because I'm a masochist) and now I'm unsure where Beckett got shot. Last night I thought it was in the stomach, but on rewatch it looked like it was in the upper chest, in the exact same place Castle got shot. I'm not really sure which is worse.

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

The showrunners had at least as much of an opportunity to be passive-aggressive with this series finale, and, I would say, didn't take it. So I'm not convinced that any ninth season would have been a drawn-out "FU, Internet!" to the show's fans.

I don't know, I saw some fans saying that they purposely left in the kitchen scene to annoy all the Beckett fans who made a huge fuss about Stana leaving. Like they blamed them for getting cancelled. I think it's more likely they just didn't have enough footage of the happily ever after and never had a real plan for an alternate ending because they didn't think they'd get cancelled. But you never know, especially with them not talking.

Edited May 18, 2016 by KaveDweller

[metaphor]

38 minutes ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

Adorable:

@SteibBob My twins Brady & Tyler Steib with Stana Katic @AJSteib #castle https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cis76bNUUAA3CbN.jpg:large

Adorable indeed.

@KaveDweller I think the holding hands thing was purposeful on Bowman's part to mirror the 7-years-ago scene, but I definitely did not feel that it meant to call the reality of the flashforward into question.

It seemed to me that Beckett got shot in the chest and also somewhere in her abdomen. There looked to be two holes in that gorgeous jacket of hers. I think that there's some spec about whether Beckett could have been pregnant in Crossfire (the show was reportedly casting for a 7-year-old Lily), but I don't know how likely that would be given her seeming injuries. Maybe Lily is a superbaby. ;) Too bad we'll likely never get confirmation on any of the showrunners' choices.

Edited May 18, 2016 by metaphor

[Beth64]

Anyone else still know all of the words to that song from The Brady Bunch?  

[snarktini]

10 hours ago, verdana said:

"Could my  ex wife be Locksat because in a lot of ways that would make perfect sense"- frankly it would have been been way more interesting than the actual reveal of Mason which had me shaking my head they'd chosen a character most fans had probably all but forgotten about as the ultimate big bad.   

Yeah, when Castle said "Mason?!" I was like, who's that? (Didn't recognize McRaney when he drove up either.) I even rewound to the "previouslies" to see if I had missed an recap. Nope.

In my mind, odds are half and half: Future sequence is them surviving being shot and living HEA, vs a fantasy of some kind. The only reason I feel like the latter explanation is in play is because the VO said it would have been great. That made the sequence feel like it could be an alternate reality.

[KaveDweller]

44 minutes ago, metaphor said:

It seemed to me that Beckett got shot in the chest and also somewhere in her abdomen. There looked to be two holes in that gorgeous jacket of hers. I think that there's some spec about whether Beckett could have been pregnant in Crossfire (the show was reportedly casting for a 7-year-old Lily), but I don't know how likely that would be given her seeming injuries. Maybe Lily is a superbaby. ;) Too bad we'll likely never get confirmation on any of the showrunners' choices.

The poor jacket. Has anyone seen info about who makes it and how ridiculous the price is? I am going to want it until I see that price tag.

Yeah, it's hard enough to explain away Beckett and Castle both being magically okay after that without factoring in a fetus. 

I never liked the idea of Beckett as senator, especially not while the show is on, but after this I could actually see her deciding to move on to something safer especially once she has kids.

[Annec]

14 hours ago, madmaverick said:

 

14 hours ago, madmaverick said:

I'm sorry, but if there's been someone who put others on the firing line without thought to the consequences since this whole stupid thing started, it's Beckett!  I don't see how being a police captain excuses Beckett from the stupidity of her decision to leave the precinct on her own to chase a lead without telling anyone where she was going and what she was doing!  Right after she'd promised her husband she would stay, but sadly it doesn't seem like her promises to her husband count for much anymore.  And the boys, too.  Does Beckett have some sort of hero/savior complex?  I think it's a valid question after all her actions.  But there aren't real costs to her on a show like Castle so perhaps that's why the character isn't shown as having learnt anything or being mistaken in her choices.

I think this is exactly the response that Hawley and TPW wanted from the viewers this year.  They really wanted the viewers to turn against Beckett so that there wouldn't be much of an outcry when she was killed off in season 9.

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, snarktini said:

The only reason I feel like the latter explanation is in play is because the VO said it would have been great. That made the sequence feel like it could be an alternate reality.

I thought that was a quote from the pilot. Beckett turns down a date with Castle, and he comments on what she's missing out on? Am I losing my mind?

[Sara2009]

6 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I thought that was a quote from the pilot. Beckett turns down a date with Castle, and he comments on what she's missing out on? Am I losing my mind?

Nope, you're right.

[snarktini]

12 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I thought that was a quote from the pilot. Beckett turns down a date with Castle, and he comments on what she's missing out on? Am I losing my mind?

No, you've got it. It's just when they played that bit coupled with the empty loft, it felt vaguely ominous to me. My mind expected to see what followed was "what they could have had". I could interpret the scenario other ways, too, but that's what I went into the final sequence thinking.

Edited May 18, 2016 by snarktini

[Sandman]

I guess I didn't see that as ominous so much as made ironic in retrospect, since the "might have been" became their actual lives. Nope, not ominous; no how! Lalalala...!

[GoGiants]

12 hours ago, verdana said:

At the end of the episode I don't believe any lessons were learn't there was no character growth for Beckett or Castle this season only regression - especially Beckett. 

There should have been consequences to her secret investigation - severe ones - both personally and professionally if they were going to have Locksat have any impact on me emotionally.  I needed something and I didn't get it, the story had no impact on me whatsoever, there was no journey to get invested in, no nerves, no excitement, no fear, the writers clearly were aimless and lacked inspiration, even the ending was recycled elements from Marlowe's time. Hawley didn't bring one fresh idea to the table. 

Yes! A thousand times yes!

There should have been consequences and different behavior regarding both Loksat and the break up all season long. Besides the break up itself and having Beckett become both personally and professionally incompetent, the poor storytelling has been one of my biggest irritations with S8. They never told the story (of Loksat, the break up, how the heck Hayley became trusted family, Beckett's captaincy etc) while they merrily destroyed multiple seasons of character history. I may not know about the inner workings of tv production, but I don't believe bad writing and minimal story development can be explained away by the alleged BTS drama or network interference.

The storyline and writers (and whoever else had a hand in this mess) treated all of the characters so shabbily in S8. Decline was present before S8 but, this final season took it from decline to disaster. Beckett looked the worst and most unlike herself this season, but everyone took a turn being out of character, just plain weird and totally screwed up.

They never made me believe that 7.23 Beckett would have done things the way she did in S8. Just like I don't believe 7.23 Castle (and Ryan and Espo etc) wouldn't have been on to Beckett from the first minute. Or that Ryan would take Castle's bribe or shoot Espo or make vaguely inappropriately comments to Beckett. Or Alexis would become a middle aged, scotch sipping hacker/PI. I'll stop now because I could go on for way too long. Needless to say, I didn't buy much of what they had the characters doing all season long and that hangs on their poor storytelling and bad writing.  

Edited May 18, 2016 by GoGiants

[verdana]

On 17/05/2016 at 5:20 AM, TWP said:

Season 8: The Marlowe Redemption Tour. LOL.

LOL it's true! 

Hawley and Winter were given a chance to make some thing better, they were given a decent starting point (although Hawley didn't seem impressed) but instead S8 had me almost missing Marlowe and he was the guy that started the rot in the first place! He was horrible at pacing and had clearly run out of ideas by the time he and his beloved wife departed the scene, it was time to freshen things up - and instead the show went to hell in a handcart. 

But what S8 has done is bizarrely make some fans put on their rose coloured glasses reminiscing about the good old days saying this "would never happened with Marlowe" some even called for his return and I'm quite sure if they were pressed would admit they'd spent most of the last few years of this tenure sincerely wishing he'd leave. But that's what experiencing gross incompetency on a weekly basis can do, it makes people yearn for what they had before which in comparison suddenly doesn't look half bad.  Hawley and Winter have proved to be so lacking in almost every department as writers and showrunners that it's burnished Marlowe's reputation - I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the MilMar family home whilst this whole train wreck of a season has been unfolding. 

I also find it pretty damning (although not surprising) that both showrunners skulked away and refused to do any interviews but that was a mistake, they're in a position of responsibility, they ultimately were the ones who decided on the separation and the Locksat silliness (even if their hands were tied somewhat with the BTS issues). Even Marlowe after the wretched 6.23 gave a series of interviews (I hated them given what he said but he was the figurehead it's expected).

If I was scouting around for fresh writers for a show I would not be calling Hawley and Winter up, not only due to the poor quality of their ouput but also because of their behaviour when it came to handling the press, their interviews made them appear completely out of it, failing to issue even a bland statement of good wishes to Katic (which is simple good manners) and then not having the decency to at least explain to the fans what they were thinking when they put together the finale given the cancellation and how they viewed the season as a whole.

I probably wouldn't have liked what they had to say but that's not the point, I believe if you're in a position of responsibility and paid accordingly you step up and do what's necessary even if it's through gritted teeth then you can go home and lick your wounds. 

You don't like the heat get out the kitchen find another job. What little sympathy I did have for them evaporated after they cancelled the post finale interviews. Poor show. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

4 hours ago, Annec said:

 

I think this is exactly the response that Hawley and TPW wanted from the viewers this year.  They really wanted the viewers to turn against Beckett so that there wouldn't be much of an outcry when she was killed off in season 9.

It backfired because instead it made me turn on the writers because what they were doing was so bad and didn't make any sense that I couldn't get that angry at the character.  Hawley clearly had a chip on his shoulder about Marlowe and whilst part of it may have been trying to wean fans off Beckett with a view to a Katic-less S9 I believe he desperately wanted to re-do S4 when he left hence Beckett's sudden regression into obsession mode again. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

I still can't wrap my head around the fact they were fully prepared to let Beckett bleed out on the kitchen floor like that (getting shot AGAIN) in a repeat of her mother's death - shot by a guy linked to Bracken - talk about coming full circle and making everything seem almost irrelevant. They had various options if S9 had continued when it came to disposing of Beckett but they had chosen the worst possible option by the looks of things, a further example of their tone deaf storytelling and failure to respect the characters Marlowe created. The writers clearly saw them as just puppets to mess around with and clearly there was no respect given towards the fans either who had been on this journey with these characters for so long and invested their time and passion. 

Whilst I'm relieved it's over as S8 stunk the place out, I didn't even watch half the season, I was curious about what they had planned for S9 minus Katic but I'm relieved that fans didn't get that alternative ending which would have surely generated similar upset to 6.23 if not more in some quarters. 

[oberon55]

2 hours ago, GoGiants said:

They never made me believe that 7.23 Beckett would have done things the way she did in S8. Just like I don't believe 7.23 Castle (and Ryan and Espo etc) wouldn't have been on to Beckett from the first minute. Or that Ryan would take Castle's bribe or shoot Espo or make vaguely inappropriately comments to Beckett. Or Alexis would become a middle aged, scotch sipping hacker/PI. I'll stop now because I could go on for way too long. Needless to say, I didn't buy much of what they had the characters doing all season long and that hangs on their poor storytelling and bad writing.

You are 100% right. Absolutely horrible storytelling. In hindsight they made a pitiful attempt to set Beckett up to be responsible for her own death. More than once she was told to drop it or face the consequences but she would not walk away. They showed her investigating out of obsession rather than necessity. Ultimately their message would have been "She would still be alive if she had only let it go. She brought it on herself." Of course just like everything else this season it was as epic fail. It came across as completely out of character & silly. Out of all the bullshit we got this season maybe the saddest was robbing Beckett of all the growth she had worked so long & hard to get.

[BellyLaughter]

4 hours ago, verdana said:

I still can't wrap my head around the fact they were fully prepared to let Beckett bleed out on the kitchen floor like that (getting shot AGAIN) in a repeat of her mother's death - shot by a guy linked to Bracken - talk about coming full circle and making everything seem almost irrelevant. They had various options if S9 had continued when it came to disposing of Beckett but they had chosen the worst possible option by the looks of things, a further example of their tone deaf storytelling and failure to respect the characters Marlowe created. The writers clearly saw them as just puppets to mess around with and clearly there was no respect given towards the fans either who had been on this journey with these characters for so long and invested their time and passion. 

Whilst I'm relieved it's over as S8 stunk the place out, I didn't even watch half the season, I was curious about what they had planned for S9 minus Katic but I'm relieved that fans didn't get that alternative ending which would have surely generated similar upset to 6.23 if not more in some quarters. 

I always struggled with a S9 without Beckett just from a common sense POV but having witnessed what would have been the cliffhanger that was (let's be honest) leading to Beckett's death I really doubt the show could have recovered from it. That was brutal to watch even with the happy ending intact and shown - it would have been a devastating way to lose Beckett.  It would have taken a Pulitzer Prize winning writer to convince me that Castle would ever recover emotionally from that loss.

 

I guess it just goes to the top of the hall of fame of what were they thinking, epically bad decisions of S8.  I mean I just can't even bare to think what would make them believe that would lead into a season of Castle PI, frat boy humor - it doesn't translate whatsoever.

 

And the fact they didn't do any interviews.....I'm kind of glad they didn't.  No amount of patronising Showrunner language would help.  There is nothing they could say to explain themselves and their choices.  Their silence pretty much says all there is to say! 

Edited May 18, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[Chado]

It's so bad that I can't even stand to read fanfic that attempts to make sense of it and/or try to make it better

[schnauzergirl]

OK, season 8 was catastrophic and I'm one who was intrigued to see what would happen in 9 without Beckett, but having said that here's how I'd have played out that last scene:  It's a fabulous Castle Christmas Eve and everybody is there to celebrate with Rick, Kate and their three kids -- Martha, Alexis, Ryan and Jenny (and kids), Espo, Lanie, even the neglected Jim Beckett.  Dream or reality?  Who knows and at this point I don't care.  What I wanted was a fond last sighting of the people who mattered.

[Adira]

16 hours ago, verdana said:

Castle alternative ending

I love this it would have been perfect, forget all the crud that came in between and just tack the last minute of S8 on to the end of 7.23.

Thanks for sharing that link!  I love this ending soooooo much.  Season 7's finale was a great series finale already, then tack on the 7 years later and it's perfect!

[TWP]

41 minutes ago, Adira said:

Thanks for sharing that link!  I love this ending soooooo much.  Season 7's finale was a great series finale already, then tack on the 7 years later and it's perfect!

I'm always amazed at Beckett's perfect makeup in the morning.  It must be tatooed on, which I suppose she would need, since she probably has to get up in the middle of the night to go to crime scenes.  But how does the hair stay so perfect?  I think someone needs to do fanfic of Beckett's hair and makeup secrets ;-).

[Driad]

What have we seen Beckett cook?  Maybe the only thing she cooks is bread pudding to attract the elves who do her hair.  Or maybe there is nanotechnology that styles her hair by diverting electricity from the security system.

[TWP]

16 minutes ago, Driad said:

What have we seen Beckett cook?  Maybe the only thing she cooks is bread pudding to attract the elves who do her hair.  Or maybe there is nanotechnology that styles her hair by diverting electricity from the security system.

I remember she made dinner on Murder He Wrote and Castle said "I didn't know you could cook"....which was irritating, because on at least one occasion at Castle's loft? she cooked and talked about how her mother taught her to cook.  Either Castle was too clueless to remember or <insert rant about writers and (dys)continuity.>

I noticed on the series finale scene it wasn't apparent that anyone cooked.  I think 3 chldren, 2 gunshot recoveries and 7 years later, they've hired a cook/housekeeper.

One wants to think that after getting shot, Caskett would upgrade the security system.  Some speculate security upgrades as the reason for the empty loft.

Edited May 18, 2016 by TWP

[Frost]

Seeing as how Loksat was a CIA baddie, I kept waiting for Rick's father to show up.  I haven't watched much this season, did he die in an earlier episode?  If not, how could this CIA cell operating in his son and granddaughter's backyard go unnoticed by him?  People are mentioned a stepmother named Rita.  Who is that?  Rick's father getting married doesn't seem to match up at all with the episodes I saw.

The whole idea of Loksat was a poor one for this show.  These are NY police officers.  As good as they are, matching them up against a rogue CIA cell is ridiculous. 

[madmaverick]

Daddy Castle with his kids.  Heh, I wouldn't be surprised if Nathan bought those kids those lightsabers. 

https://twitter.com/AJSteib/status/732931150998441984

3 hours ago, TWP said:

I'm always amazed at Beckett's perfect makeup in the morning.  It must be tatooed on, which I suppose she would need, since she probably has to get up in the middle of the night to go to crime scenes.  But how does the hair stay so perfect?  I think someone needs to do fanfic of Beckett's hair and makeup secrets ;-).

Her hair was perfect in the finale.  Especially as I was bored by the Locksat stuff, my attention went to the shallow. :P  Perfectly tousled. ;)  But I have to say sometimes it was so model perfect that it was kind of distracting especially when she was waving around a gun with her flowing locks bouncing around at the same time.

More shallow: Castle looked hot on the torture table.  Caskett need to add that to their repertoire heh.  And when he was knocking down that wall and wielding a gun.  Thankfully ugly jacket was off.

I don't agree with the notion that the writers were intentionally trying to make people dislike Beckett this season.  No more than they were trying to make people dislike Castle/Beckett during TS&TQ or all the other poorly done arcs by Marlowe.  Beckett was still characterised as the badass heroine with a righteous thirst for justice, and in the right, whether viewers agreed with that conclusion or not.  She specifically got a scene in the finale addressing her rationale for pursuing Locksat again.  Her decision to pursue Locksat was never truly questioned by the other characters either because it was framed as the righteous one within the context of the show. 

[TWP]

2 hours ago, Frost said:

Seeing as how Loksat was a CIA baddie, I kept waiting for Rick's father to show up.  I haven't watched much this season, did he die in an earlier episode?  If not, how could this CIA cell operating in his son and granddaughter's backyard go unnoticed by him?  People are mentioned a stepmother named Rita.  Who is that?  Rick's father getting married doesn't seem to match up at all with the episodes I saw.

The whole idea of Loksat was a poor one for this show.  These are NY police officers.  As good as they are, matching them up against a rogue CIA cell is ridiculous. 

Rita appeared in 8x01 or 8x02, can't remember which.  She was the catalyst of the Caskett breakup.  (You have to break up so the baddie doesn't get  your family!)

Daddy Castle's Life (is) in Pieces over on another network ;-), presumably with his other covert family ;-).

Edited May 18, 2016 by TWP

[S55]

1 hour ago, madmaverick said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Nathan bought those kids those lightsabers. 

https://twitter.com/AJSteib/status/732931150998441984

Not that it matters much, but I think those are bubble wands? But I could see Nathan telling them they could be lightsabers. ;) 

[readster]

Something that also never made sense with LokStat it was that they made it like he was involved in killing Beckett's mom, but it was all Bracken since he didn't want anything traced to him. The mess started because three cops and a rookie cop accidently killed an under cover agent. Bracken who was the State's Attorney found out, used the mob money the cops were using to build his back drop and then went to Washington. Now, could have Bracken made connections with dirty people in the CIA? Yes of course, but the problem was when Bracken went to prison and Mason/Caleb wanted to clean up things so they wouldn't be found out is when it all went down. The safe thing would have kept VIcktrem and their party alone. Killed the people they didn't know about and left Bracken to hang. Hence, no one would have known about Lockstat and it all comes down to a former Senator who got to power hungry and it all crashed down on him. 

  Yet it turned into obsessive Kate trying to take down Mason/Caleb and even more, what the hell was Lokstat even doing if it was an operation and not really a sole person as Mason revealed and Caleb pointed out earlier. There was so much use of secret former military people from the first Gulf War, helicopters sneaking into prisons and guys literally dying for no reason but to keep "the dragon happy". Including the last guy who was blown up trying to get Monmgamery's files and his excuse was: "I have nothing better to do." So, yeah killing and torturing people just because someone told you to is right up there with 3XK telling people they were evil and they went off and killed for Tyson and so forth without any other reason because they were told to and they were killed by Tyson anyhow. You think these lackeys would get the picture, that maybe working for them was going to get them dead anyhow and they had no families. So, what was the point? The story was just so full of not only plot holes that they tried tying them in with the stories that Marlow crashed and burn with like Castle disappearing from his wedding day to stop an terrorist plot and missing phone cards trying to frame the mayor of New York to stop Castle and Beckett from finding the big bads that even made less sense.

These are hack writers and they should never be allowed to helm another show again.

[Lee4U]

My new theory is that the leaked the news about SK not being asked back to get people so riled up they wouldn't notice what a crappy series finale they had put in the can (but, we DID notice) - Just kidding, but hey with this bunch, anything is possible.  This finale was that bad - the whole brouhaha could have been a simple distraction instead of people musing more about how this might happily end.  

[AntiBeeSpray]

On 5/17/2016 at 7:24 PM, Shellie said:

Y'know, this gave me a creepy thought that they really might have planned to use this scene in season 9.  I was thinking it might be a fantasy for Castle of what might have been.  Maybe they'd open with it, as you suggest, but then it would fade to their hands in the last scene of season 8, then come around to Castle sitting there in mourning.  : shudder :  

Boy, that would have been a turn of the screw.  

Yea. Just another stab at fans. Ugh. Glad it didn't work out.

[femmefan1946]

I think 3 chldren, 2 gunshot recoveries and 7 years later, they've hired a cook/housekeeper.

 

Well, if Castle is working from home, he could carry out those duties. He did it for Alexis after all. (My Kevlar vest says 'Feminist'.)

 

how could this CIA cell operating in his son and granddaughter's backyard go unnoticed by him?  People are mentioned a stepmother named Rita.

 

Good point! Another (dys)continuity,

I suspect Rita was written in when James Brolin was unavailable or too expensive.

 

She was the catalyst of the Caskett breakup.  (You have to break up so the baddie doesn't get  your family!)

No. As I remember ti, she told Beckett to forget the murders and get on with her life for the safety of her family.

 

Not that it matters much, but I think those are bubble wands?

Yep. I've been buying those for all my great-neices. They make great big bubbles. (Pro Tip- break a glowstick into the bubble mix for glow in the dark bubbles.)

[KaveDweller]

2 minutes ago, femmefan1946 said:

She was the catalyst of the Caskett breakup.  (You have to break up so the baddie doesn't get  your family!)

No. As I remember ti, she told Beckett to forget the murders and get on with her life for the safety of her family.

She told Beckett to forget the case, but when Beckett said she couldn't do that, Rita told her that in that case she should walk away from Castle to keep him safe. It seemed kind of manipulative to me, I would not have been surprised if she turned out not to be his stepmother or was, but was also evil. Beckett was wrong to listen to her, but I don't think Beckett would have left if that conversation never happened.

I wouldn't have minded Loksat so much if Beckett had gone home that first night and told Castle she wanted them to investigate together (and then we actually saw them together).

[TWP]

2 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

She was the catalyst of the Caskett breakup.  (You have to break up so the baddie doesn't get  your family!)

No. As I remember ti, she told Beckett to forget the murders and get on with her life for the safety of her family.

 

...which to Beckett ears was <bullhorn> "BREAK UP!"  ;-)

[RustbeltWriter]

I'm really going to miss this show. It's earlier seasons generated enough good will to carry over even when things got a little stale. They even managed to pull off Castle and Beckett getting together without losing their chemistry. The network really screwed up the ending though. They should have cut the Caleb scene at the end because I never would have seen the incinerator room thing as a hole in the plot. It would have been nicer to see their family and just how far Beckett had gone in her career.

They could always do movies of the week after a few years. Now to crack open some Richard Castle novels.