GoGiants

Agree about liking early season Alexis. The Castle family unit of Rick, Alexis and Martha was quite enjoyable to watch. I enjoyed seeing the “real” Castle at home with his family, being a parent etc. I also appreciated the interactions it brought to his relationship with Beckett in the earlier seasons. Post high school Alexis was rather unpleasant. The Pi story arc was awful and while they tried it just did not work for me at all. Beyond her at times immature and unlikable behavior, I feel like she just flitted around in her college/jobs/life and finally landed fully formed as Alexis the PI/Hacker in S8. A very strange, awkward and unrealistic transition to adulthood. There’s nothing wrong with trying new things out, but how they did it didn’t seem fair or true to what I knew of Alexis. Also, that whole “parenting the parent” routine that was part of the early seasons Rick and Alexis interactions didn’t play so cute or funny in the last couple of seasons. Given the constraints of the show, Alexis was never going to get a chance to grow or change organically. Plus, I think TV shows generally have a hard time when kid/teen actors/characters make the move from kid to adult on a show. I would’ve rather seen them give her some kind of transition out of the daily orbit of Rick if they would/could not give Alexis more time for growth (who am I kidding, they didn’t always give the main characters the attention they deserved in this department!). Regarding Beckett’s mom: I don’t hate the story outright… but when it comes to re watching, I typically skip most of the episodes that are heavier into that story line. As with a lot of big conspiracies on TV shows that last for years, it got bloated and tired pretty quickly. I didn’t hate it, but felt like it was never really given proper attention when it popped up each season. So many details glossed over, plot holes, drama for drama’s sake and just plain nonsense. I was very ready for it to end when it did and super disappointed when they resurrected it in S8 via that whole mess. I watched in spite of and not because of that story. Side note, glad the show ended before it could get any worse than it did but I miss this board. Hope all are well.

I think it is a safe bet that TV Line will continue on until they have squeezed the lost drop of interest from Castle's demise. Combine that with the fact that fandom, both in general and some Castle fans in particular, seem to take strange joy in re-litigating the same old theories and scandals and you've got a new "dramatic" headline. Gotta get those clicks some how! ;) lol Agreed. Very classy but didn't say much that was new. I don't see much of SK's PR etc, but what I have seen seems very innocuous. I doubt very much that we will ever hear details from anyone involved in Castle's cursed conclusion (sorry couldn't help myself). I doubt it is NDAs keeping them quiet. I imagine it is a desire to move on and to work in the industry again. But who knows? In my own career, I have some gossip and stories that I could share. But I doubt that would do me or my career much good. I would guess it is the same for them, but on a larger and more public stage. And also, I agree, what would be the point, almost 2 years later? Castle reunion for sure! We will be drunk before episode one is over if they repeat things like I think they will. Procedurals get made fun of for their tropes for a reason. ;) It is interesting that they will both be launching their shows on the same network at the same time. I will give the new shows from Milmar, NF and SK a chance. I doubt they will have lightning strike twice, but you never know. I don't keep up much with casting/crew news but it does seem like Milmar are staging a bit of Castle crew reunion. Same here. I rewatched about a half dozen episodes while sick a few weeks back. It was nice to find I still enjoy the show, characters, chemistry etc. I don't watch S8, but otherwise I am glad to catch an episode now and then. The show, flaws and all, really was something special and entertaining. I agree, most working actors likely don't get to choose their roles for art or principles. Even the bigger stars, who do "art" still probably take some lesser roles to get the payday. We all have bills to pay. I am glad for Jon and hope the others can find more work in the future. I think it really shows how hard it is to get cast as a Lanie or a Ryan or other supporting roles, let alone lead roles. Perception is funny for sure. I thought Booth and Bones had good chemistry but I didn't watch for more than a season or 2. I have friends who I'm sure have better taste than me recommend TV, movies, books etc that I did not like. The things that capture our imaginations can be so different and fickle from individual to individual. I too enjoyed Castle for its charm and lightness. Finally, it is good to see that reasonable and enjoyable discussion of Castle still exists. Hope you all are well.

No worries. The books didn't play any role in my enjoyment of the show. But it was a sad thought to realize this book would've been published after Beckett's "death" (whether real or fake). I wondered why the weren't any acknowledgements. I missed them too. I too imagine they would have found a way to keep the books going. Probably without thinking too much about it or how it tied to the show or characters. I would've found it awkward and sad to have Beckett on secret off-screen missions while she was presumed dead (wasn't that the S9 rumor?) and then keep on publishing the books with love filled dedications from Castle to Beckett. Happily i don't have to find out how that would have played out.

@KaveDweller, regarding the books: Yikes! I hadn't thought about that but I suppose that could be true. One more reason I'm glad they cancelled before things got even worse.

I just finished reading the whole series over the last month. Apparently I like binge reading in addition to binge watching. ;) I was pleasantly surprised by the Heat books. I had no plans to read them but fell into them on a whim. Nothing special but they were fun reads. I enjoyed looking for the show references and the various similarities and differences between the two. Couldn't get the below box to delete. Oh well.

I just checked it out. I thought she sounded great. It's hard to believe she is 90. Thanks for the suggestion, @madmaverick. Another favorite from my childhood! Between Murder, She Wrote, Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast, I was hooked on Angela Lansbury early on. As I got older I realized she has had a truly distinguished career, far outside the confines of Cabot Cove or the beast's castle! I was able to catch her performance in Blithe Spirit when it went on tour early last year. It was a thrill to see her on stage. She must have excellent health, amazing stamina or both. I am planning to give This is Us a try. Seems to have been a lot of positive press and comments about the pilot. Plus it'll be nice to see McRaney as someone other than Loksat! Couldn't agree with you more about the simple moments on Castle. The family relationships, the human and emotional touch was a big part of what caught my attention and kept me involved in the show.

I found Sister Cities enjoyable enough but not to my taste. I agree with those upthread that it wasn't that much better than a typical tv movie. I wouldn't have seen it had it not been readily available on my tv. I wouldn't have sought it out in the theater and I'm glad not to have spent 15 bucks for the privilege. Nothing wrong with it per se, but certainly not worthy of award campaigns. I think that with the right role and some luck, SK (or NF or some of the other cast) could win an Emmy or other awards. I just don't think Sister Cities is going to garner awards or nominations for anyone involved. If it did happen I think it would be the mom or daughter who assisted the suicide. The Emmy talk regarding SK and Sister Cities got me thinking about the occasional Emmy talk that would crop up about Castle and its leads. I think there were strong and well acted moments over the seasons, but I don't think Emmys were ever in the offing for NF or SK while on Castle. I too think most of that Emmy talk was likely fangirl/boy related excitement. I glanced over the Emmy winners from last night and Castle doesn't seem to be the type of show the Emmys recognize often, with either nominations or wins. The idea that Castle (or its cast) would haven been nominated alongside Game of Thrones, Orphan Black and the Americans is a bit much. I looked around on Wikipedia and procedurals don't appear to have had a strong track record for tons of nominations or wins at the Emmys or other mainstream awards for years. Castle, Bones and their ilk seem to get a handful of Emmy nominations, typically in the more technical categories and often earlier in their runs. The rest of their awards wins and nominations appear to be for PCAs and other lesser known/regarded awards. Somewhat related note, I grew up watching the last few years of Murder, She Wrote with my grandmother. Castle has always reminded of some of the lighter crime shows from the 80s and 90s. I checked Angela Lansbury's Emmy record (thank you, Internet!) for Murder, She Wrote and while she received many nominations, she never won an Emmy. She did win multiple golden globes for best actress in a drama (which seems hilarious considering the light tone of the show and the dramas that get nominated these days). Obviously I am not an expert nor is this a complete look at the awards angle but I'm guessing there may be something that keeps lighter dramas/procedurals from winning the major awards. It's actually funny I got interested in this today because I don't generally care much about awards or if the shows and movies I like win. The tv environment has changed so much in recent years. Cable combined with streaming has opened up so many different avenues for all kinds of storytelling. Makes it hard for standard network offerings to compete. That whole look for her character didn't scream potential youngest judge ever or whatever the distinction was. I would have bought artist or musician before lawyer and potential judge. I assume that hair color and bangs are the reason SK appeared to be wearing a wig early in S8. Having bangs in my eyes like that would drive me nuts! I like SK with the darker hair too. Isn't that color closer to the color early series Beckett had?

So much truth in this comment. For certain fans, there is no response that will satisfy them. I agree. Wish the drama could have stayed hidden under professionalism and PR tricks. I don't need the actors on the shows I watch to be best friends. It's nice to have pleasant work relationships, but if it's not possible, try to keep it quiet. I haven't had a workplace in my career that didn't have some form of occasional drama or difficult people, so I do think that's just life. If the issues don't affect the finished product, I'm fine. It's unfortunate that whatever happened had some role in the shows demise and the actual product the last couple of years.

Your comment got me to re-watch some S8 scenes. The overall tone of the show was off in S8 for so many reasons both on and off screen (and discussed here!). When I set all of that aside and watch the anniversary scene, the motorcycle gift scene or the scene where they talked about traveling the world (among other scenes), it still felt mostly right to me as well. I still bought into the relationship (or wanted to buy in), despite all the S8 annoyances. That is the bummer of S8. A lot of the pieces of what made the show enjoyable enough were still there. No real reason, to my mind, that S8 couldn't have been more like S7 in tone and story line. Not nearly as good as the older seasons, but also not the mess we ended up with. Whatever the troubles were, they really did have great on screen chemistry over the seasons. Sounds nice. I watched X-files but was completely oblivious as to the drama there until years later.

Avoid TV Line comment sections, lol! I remember years ago reading an interview with an actor who came off somewhat pretentious but still quite likable. He felt (I am seriously paraphrasing) that an actor’s off screen life should be more of a mystery, so as not to detract from the story or characters. At the time, I didn’t think too much of it (except that I found it hilarious he was advocating mysterious off screen lives for actors in an interview about his acting and his life!), but in regards to Castle and any other show I may watch, I am heading towards a less is more mentality. I haven’t gone this deep with any other show I’ve watched. I’ve certainly enjoyed many shows over the years but this experience (this forum, following the show online etc) with Castle has been new for me. I too want to avoid the crazy and enjoy the good on my next go round (if there is one, no promising shows for me so far). I don’t fault either party too much for what they did or didn’t say, tweet, favorite, comment etc over the years and in recent events in particular. Once that disaster was unleashed, I don’t think there is much that would’ve stopped it. Certainly not a few tweets or additional rounds of PR speak. I understand their minimal comments and their overall silence on the matter. I will watch Sister Cities because I too am curious about SK in a non Beckett role. I wouldn't seek it out if it wasn't going to be on my TV shortly (doesn’t really look like my kind of thing). I watch Modern Family occasionally, so I'll see NF's turn there as well. I will certainly watch their projects if they appeal to me or if I stumble into them, but I won't seek them out solely because of their presence (that goes for the entire cast). I have always assumed her other roles are the best she can get. I’ve seen her comments about art etc but if recall correctly, she had a minor role in a Bond film (not high art!) pre-Castle. I imagine if the major roles were available to her (or really to any of the Castle cast) she’d take them. When I watch a new show (lately The Closer and Major Crimes), I am often taken aback by how many actors are actively working and are flying under the radar (at least to my perception). If I don’t watch a show or if the actor isn’t an A list type or somehow newsworthy, I usually won’t know them. I think it’s difficult for secondary and even some primary actors on network and cable shows to be incredibly well known outside of their fan bases and industry types, especially if they never can make a jump to something more high profile. Agree so much! It's over and done but I'm still curious, lol. Human nature, I suppose? ;) Yeah, I wish it all could have stayed under wraps. It was a bad look for all involved (leads, network, showrunners etc). Even further PR machinations would just be another layer to this mess. What should have been a wrap to a reasonably successful series got sunk by gossip and rumor. I agree! Judging intent, meaning and the reality of BTS situations based on tweets, bloopers, interviews, other BTS footage has always seemed rather dodgy territory to me. So much of the content viewers see/read is either off the cuff or heavily edited, processed and PR managed. Without any context or first person knowledge it is difficult to discern much (I can assume plenty, but that's a whole other animal and not particularly fair to anyone, lol ;)). This is typically why I shy away from these discussions. I do think something happened between them and I also think there was decent amount of dysfunction towards the end (not all of it centering on the leads, there was Network vs Studio drama, ABC schedule upheavals, show runner changes etc). There was just too much weirdness that can’t quite be explained away.

You’ve described my viewing experience almost perfectly @madmaverick. I binge watched and caught up to the show right after the S7 finale, just ahead of the S8 renewal. Besides a few online articles and google searches about the cast and show, I watched all 7 seasons without showrunner comments, social media, forums BTS gossip etc. I am also a viewer who barely knew who NF was let alone the rest of the cast. I didn’t even know of TV Line’s existence until last summer and the famous blind item. After going through S8 with all of those things, I am grateful that I missed the first 7 season’s worth of them! I found this place around the time of the break up rumors and blind item. Before landing here, I stumbled through a few articles/forums etc that were full of gossip and nastiness or they were dripping with blind adoration and near worship of the characters and actors. Both extremes are a bit much for my taste and make me rather uncomfortable. It was a fun to come across a forum full of real and interesting discussion. Binge watching combined with knowing next to nothing about the show and its issues absolutely affected my enjoyment of the show for the better. Not reading showrunner interviews or waiting out the hiatus after a lame cliffhanger or watching continuity and characterization issues form in real time did wonders for my opinions and feelings for Castle. If I had been a real time viewer, I don’t think I would have come back after the wedding/disappearance mess. I have dropped more than a few shows over the years after bizarre and frustrating moments. But thanks to binge watching and my good feelings for the show, I set aside my annoyances and kept going. Binge watching smoothed out the rough edges (continuity, poor characterization, bad secondary cast development, wedding/Castle’s disappearance and many other things) and let me enjoy the charm, sweetness and chemistry that drew me into the show to begin with. A lot of my frustrations are similar to those I’ve read from people who watched in real time. Binge watching made it so easy for to me take the good and toss the bad until S8 hit me like a ton of bricks. ;) As for the BTS issues affecting my viewing experience, I was unaware of even a whisper of drama until I started reading here and elsewhere. I didn’t pick up on anything during my binge watch that I would have attributed to BTS issues. In hindsight, I do see what some here have pointed out, but I don’t know that I would have thought it without a nudge. I have admitted here to perhaps not being the most observant about that kind of thing. I’ll further admit to being someone who absolutely thinks something happened (I believe there were numerous factors that lead to Castle's drama and demise, not all tied to the leads) but I don’t have a particular “team” that I champion. Getting involved in Castle at the beginning of the end wasn’t such a fun thing. But hanging out here has been nice. :) On an unrelated note, not really a Castle like show, but I have been watching my way through The Closer and now Major Crimes. Obviously those two shows have far more standard procedural in them than Castle. But it has been refreshing to watch relatively consistent character development occur through both shows and the main and secondary casts. I feel like I know more about many of the secondary characters than I ever knew about Ryan, Esposito and Lainie (and that show has a bigger ensemble than Castle!). Another reminder that it isn’t hard to be consistent and develop characters while primarily being a crime procedural. Also refreshing to not have a cop show deteriorate into convoluted conspiracies and super spy goofiness. As @verdana and others said up thread, it really does seem like the Castle writers and showrunners just didn’t care and it snowballed from there over the seasons.

Well said, @verdana. Yes! This one drove me nuts (really everything listed up thread and other moments as well bugged). I remember watching this episode and thinking that at least Castle could afford her therapy bills. More seriously, how on earth would she not be affected by an incident like that? Any sort of comment or moment about it would've been far more natural and normal than just ignoring it and moving on. In early seasons, Castle and Beckett discussed Alexis and her various issues often, why wouldn't they discuss this? It would've shown a bit more character depth and growth for Alexis and also could have created some nice family bonding/emotional moments as they supported each other. There could be an entire thread dedicated to dropped plot threads, continuity fails and all the issues the writers chose not to address over the seasons (or totally forgot about). Not just lazy writing, but poor storytelling and plotting as well. It makes me hesitant to watch another MilMar product. Their concept and execution of early Castle was great. Taking it beyond that seems to have been a struggle. How hard would it have been to add little conversations or moments that tied back to events in prior episodes? The lack of follow up made it appear that almost all issues/trauma on Castle were completely forgotten and resolved in the episode it occurred in. Only the largest plot lines (Beckett's first shooting, sad we have to specify now, Beckett's Mom/Bracken, and 3XK, I'm not going to bother with S8, lol) seemed to have received regular mentions over the years. I say mentions because while the storyline may have been present in episode, there were many times where I thought they seriously dropped the ball or were totally inconsistent, even with their big arcs. I had my issues with continuity prior to S8. I think I gave the show a pass because I binge watched and I was enjoying the characters and their story despite the continuity issues. The wedding mess plus S8 really tore down whatever goodwill I had that made it easy to gloss over the inconsistencies. As the seasons go by, bad continuity and other laziness can really weigh a show down.

I will be interested to see what the secondary cast (I include TJ in that as well) can do in roles with a bit more depth and substance to them than their supporting player parts on Castle. I might not seek a show out specifically because of their presence but I would be curious to see what else they can do, particularly in a different or bigger roles. Here is hoping they get the opportunity to do so. The entertainment industry is tough and a secondary role on Castle for 8 seasons may be the best that some get in their career. Not a knock, just recognition of how difficult it is to get a steady, well paying job in entertainment. I only had a passing knowledge of who NF was when I started watching Castle, thanks to Dr Horrible and his cameos on the Big Bang Theory and The Guild (I still haven't watched Firefly). I had not heard of anyone else in the cast. I will be interested to see what projects are next for the entire cast, not just the secondary cast. Whether I watch will be more dependent on what the project is than any particular actor. I do hope they can all find new projects. I enjoyed Castle's run (in spite of the bumps) and the cast was a major part of that.

Only a grain of salt? ;) I take everything TV Line and sites like it write with a whole shaker worth! Lol I agree it was probably early days for the S9 plotline when everything went down. I imagine what we've heard from TV Line is only one of a few possibilities for S9. Heck, knowing TV Line's MO, they may even be going with the most sensational S9 rumors and speculation, just to wring a few last clicks out of Castle. I know it's all in the past now and I do recognize the full story will never be out there. But when something blows up as spectacularly as Castle did, it's hard not to be curious. I felt like some of my S8 comments on the board got a tad repetitive over the months. I think I am now going to be repetitively stating that I'm glad I don't have to see the S9 vision play out on screen. Please stop me when I reach that point! Lol

I still don't see any good options for restructuring the show that wouldn't have left the long shadow of Beckett hanging over it and involve full lobotomies for every character (to complete the character damage of recent seasons!). Whether S9 had a dead or missing Beckett, if the rest of the characters were to behave even remotely normally, there would have to have been significant grief and mourning. S8's writing doesn't lead me to believe that would have happened. Before the cancellation was announced, I was leaning towards Beckett actually dying and then S9 carrying on with S8 style storytelling (i.e. ignore every consequence related to her death all season long). I too am glad all these conversations are hypothetical at this point. TV line is definitely picking over the bones of the show for site traffic. I'll admit that it is interesting to hear whatever chatter they were privy to, since no one from the show seems willing or able to talk.