S11.E20: Don't Call Me Shurley

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Amara unleashes a dark fog on a small town that causes everyone to go mad. Dean and Sam realize this is a stronger version of the original black vein virus Amara previously unleashed. They team up with the sheriff to protect the town but discover their old remedy no longer works. Meanwhile, Chuck returns with an interesting proposal.

[Omegamom]

Chuck!  Yaassssss!

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

[lovebug871]

Woo hoo!  Chuck is back and he's God!  All is right in the universe.

[Ferniesfreckles]

Ha! Making fun of Kripke's show titles.  "Time" isn't any better!

The Samulet!!!!!!!! 

OMG! It's back!

so Dean is immune to the fog much like Sam was immune to the Croatoan virus.

Wow, I can see why Jared loved this episode.

Fantastic. Loved the conversation between Chuck and Metatron. I think Metatron has redeemed himself quite nicely. Calling out God on his bullshit. 

[lovebug871]

Well, that was something.  Was that really Rob Benedict singing?  

Loved it!

[CocoaGoddess]

That ending was amazing! Legit tears in my eyes and well worth the six year wait!

Has Chuck always been this hot? Whew. 

[MysteryGuest]

Hmmm...I'm not sure what to think.  We knew they were going to go there, so there wasn't much of a surprise, and at least they didn't make us wait for the revelation.  I like that Metatron was able to redeem himself a bit, since we've only known him as a bastard.  It's nice to see Rob again, but they spent an awful lot of time "explaining" just how God "pretended" to be Chuck.  That's because Chuck was never supposed to be God until they changed their minds, mid-stream.  Oh well.  It could have been worse, but how does this resolve itself?  I'm assuming God will help them fix this little problem and then disappear for good.

[Jediknight]

God mentioned that the Winchesters keep breaking the world.  Somebody finally said it, but of course he turns into a douche after it.

That was an awesome episode.  They got Metatron back to his old self of loving stories, Chuck was awesome, he and Metatron played off of each other perfectly, we got an explanation for why the amulet never went off, we got the Beach Boys, and there was nothing boring about this episode.

There was just one problem, I like Bugs.

[sunshine85]

I loved this episode. At first, I thought Chuck being God seemed too far fetched, but the writers pieced things together nicely...for me, it felt believable. 

Rob Benedict's song made me teary... we just know things aren't going to end well for Chuck/God. 

[MysteryGuest]

It wasn't boring, and Rob and Curtis were really great together.  It was also nice to see the amulet make a return.  I always felt bad when Dean just threw it away.

[auntvi]

What was the song that Rob sang at the end?

[Binns]

Man, I am 100% on board. I didn't think I would be, but I'm overwhelmed by the end, Metatron (way to go, Curtis Armstrong), the Samulet, the boys and their love for each other, just about everything. I love Chuck's struggle. I completely adored Rob's song. I'm just...twitterpated. 

[MysteryGuest]

I need to watch it again tomorrow to really see how I feel about it.  I absolutely loved parts of it, but I was so against the whole God thing that it sort of got in my way.  I need to see if a re-watch lets me get past that.  Maybe the writers will surprise me and will actually be up to the task of having this make sense, and allow for the show to move forward next season and still have an entertaining story to tell.  

[Binns]

19 minutes ago, auntvi said:

What was the song that Rob sang at the end?

Editing my reply....I just found this on Spotify by Pete Seeger. Need to research if he's the originator. It's called "Fare Thee Well."

Edit 2: also known as "Dink's Song" and it's an old folk song. I need Rob's version!!

 

Man, I am 100% on board. I didn't think I would be, but I'm overwhelmed by the end, Metatron (way to go, Curtis Armstrong), the Samulet, the boys and their love for each other, just about everything. I love Chuck's struggle. I completely adored Rob's song. I'm just...twitterpated.

10 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I need to watch it again tomorrow to really see how I feel about it.  I absolutely loved parts of it, but I was so against the whole God thing that it sort of got in my way.  I need to see if a re-watch lets me get past that.  Maybe the writers will surprise me and will actually be up to the task of having this make sense, and allow for the show to move forward next season and still have an entertaining story to tell.  

When he first identified himself I had a really strong negative feeling and it took me a while but I came around. I need to rewatch too. I think I missed a fair amount. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by Binns
Ineptitude

[2Old2BAFangirl]

I'm still processing the Chuck is God thing but I really liked how this episode played out.  Even the sit and chat (and chat and chat) kept my attention the entire time - and almost made me kinda like Metatron a little.

I need to rewatch but I liked it!

[Frost]

31 minutes ago, Ferniesfreckles said:

I think Metatron has redeemed himself quite nicely. Calling out God on his bullshit. 

I feel completely the opposite.  I spent every minute of Metatron's many many diatribes thinking "Am I just supposed to forget the incredibly heinous things you did?  All the torturing and killing and malevolence?"  I couldn't do it.  So even though Curtis Armstrong did a tremendous job, Metatron is too far gone for me to feel any sympathy or forgiveness because the poor thing was just crying out for attention because God had left him. 

I liked the Sam and Dean stuff.  Although I'm confused that the deputy said everyone was going to die except Dean - right as she prepared to shoot him?  Amara planning to wipe out everything except for Dean is truly disturbing.  I'm very interested in seeing where this goes.

[catrox14]

Unpopular opinion time.

I hate that Chuck is God. Whatever show. Way to ruin a great mystery. Lame.

The Kripke - Revolution joke was just stupid.

I never wanted to see that fucking amulet ever again. UGH. I swear to Gods if Dean starts wearing it again, I'll lose my goddamn mind. Dean had every fucking right to throw away that amulet. I am actively angry about this.

No, show, Metatron is not the one that needed to call out God on behalf of the humanity that  Metatron found disgusting until he had to suffer like a human.  And OH BY THE FUCKING WAY. Metatron killed Dean. He gets no redemption from me.

Sam and Dean are the ones that should have called out God. And Dean better punch God in the face.

So wait God called calls out Sam and Dean for breaking the world for each other but then we have "I'm not leaving you. Ever" which implies that once again Dean can't leave Sam. I don't get it.

I have no sympathy for God being lonely and sad.

Sam just forgot all about the cure to the disease?

God seemed might jealous of his sister and was pissed that Metatron even asked about her story.

About the only thing I actually liked is God is canonically bi. LOL that ought to make some heads spin.

Oh and I am very worried about why Amara was leaving Dean untouched in her attack. That can't be a good thing...unless Dean finds a way to use it against her.

The acting between Rob and Curtis was great but Metatron is still a weaselly dickbag so I just don't care about his blathering.

God better help Cas. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Oh wait another thing I liked.

'Stop this! You hear me, you dick!?" hahahahah. Dean called God a dick. That was fun.

Wait a minute. I just thought..

..Did Sam really say "You're gonna choose Amara over me ?" Like isn't Sam supposed to the one who takes out Amara? I don't get it.

Edited May 5, 2016 by catrox14

[cryptaknight]

Ohhh, I thought he said "You bitch" and was talking to Amara. I like your take on it better.

I always figured Chuck was God, so whatever, but I am not here for a redeemed Metatron, and I'm annoyed Chuck was ignoring what was going on with Amara and Lucifer.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh wait another thing I liked.

'Stop this! You hear me, you dick!?" hahahahah. Dean called God a dick. That was fun.

Was he saying it to God or to Amara? Initially I thought Amara but would he call her a dick? I guess not...wasn't she the cause of the fog though?

 

I wouldn't have cared if God was inhabiting Chucks vessel at some point (like maybe starting at Swan Song) but to make him God ALL ALONG? That makes God a dick in my book-need to re-watch.

[Ferniesfreckles]

You mean I'm supposed to remember what characters did 2 or 3 seasons ago??

Eh, I see your point about Metatron, catrox14, but I choose to see it as him telling God to get his shit together and clean up his mess. 

Which saved Sam and the entire town. 

[Binns]

I thought Dean was calling Amara a dick. 

[Frost]

I hate the whole construct of a brother and sister for God and Amara, but I liked the description of "I am being.  She is nothingness."   They aren't human and aren't male and female so everyone describing them as brother and sister just sounds idiotic.

[catrox14]

Quote

Was he saying it to God or to Amara? Initially I thought Amara but would he call her a dick? I guess not...wasn't she the cause of the fog though?

I think that was Dean trying to call on God like he did that one time in S5 when Sam was being tormented. But maybe he was calling both God and Amara a dick?

[KirkB]

At that point Dean had no way of knowing God was around. I presumed he was calling Amara a dick, unless he was just randomly shouting at God on the off chance he was listening.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Binns said:

I thought Dean was calling Amara a dick. 

I can't figure why Dean would call Amara a dick unless it's just to not have him call her a bitch?

[Commando Cody]

I was willing to believe that Chuck was Chuck originally, but later God took over his meat suit. It makes things hard to explain when Chuck was alone and freaking out when the world was ending. I was okay with the thought of Chuck becoming God in Swan Song. I found it hard to believe that he was God the whole time. I never had a problem with "Bugs" either. 

I loved this episode. As far as seasons go, this one has been pretty awesome as a whole. 

Even God needs to be put in his place apparently. I thought the scenes between Chuck and Metatron were really well written and acted. 

[Jediknight]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think that was Dean trying to call on God like he did that one time in S5 when Sam was being tormented. But maybe he was calling both God and Amara a dick?

I think he was just yelling at anybody to listen, Amara for what she was doing, God for abandoning humanity, Lucifer for taking over Cas, Zack Snyder for being Zack Snyder, Jonathan Papelbon for choking Bryce Harper, you know he was just calling anybody who was listening a dick.

[catrox14]

Just now, Jediknight said:

I think he was just yelling at anybody to listen, Amara for what she was doing, God for abandoning humanity, Lucifer for taking over Cas, Zack Snyder for being Zack Snyder, Jonathan Papelbon for choking Bryce Harper, you know he was just calling anybody who was listening a dick.

I can agree with this.

[companionenvy]

Oh, man. I see all the problems -- I hate that there was never an actual Chuck, think Metatron has gone too far to be redeemed this quickly, and could have done with a little more gravitas in the SPN deity -- but I don't care. That last scene was one of the best things they've done in YEARS. I'm in!

[AwesomO4000]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I never wanted to see that fucking amulet ever again. UGH. I swear to Gods if Dean starts wearing it again, I'll lose my goddamn mind. Dean had every fucking right to throw away that amulet. I am actively angry about this.

I'm of mixed feelings about that. As I said over in the other thread, I agree that Dean had a right to throw the amulet away if he wanted to. I was mostly concerned with how he did it, as in deliberately in front of Sam like he was sending Sam a message. And if Dean trashed it where Sam could see it, then I think I am okay with Sam taking it back - (i.e. message received, but it still means something to me) - as long as Sam never mentioned it to Dean... which he didn't so I'm okay with that.

Quote

No, show, Metatron is not the one that needed to call out God on behalf of the humanity that  Metatron found disgusting until he had to suffer like a human.  And OH BY THE FUCKING WAY. Metatron killed Dean. He gets no redemption from me.

Yeah, I'm having a conflict with that one, too, but since Castiel got forgiven/redemption, I think I might have to end up forgiving Metatron, too, especially since he ended up being the one to turn God/Chuck around.

Quote

So wait God called calls out Sam and Dean for breaking the world for each other but then we have "I'm not leaving you. Ever" which implies that once again Dean can't leave Sam. I don't get it.

Actually God called Sam out for breaking the world - of course. Dean was only mentioned as being a demon, but that the world would still be spinning - in other words, it was all Sam's fault for not accepting that (God/Chuck was fairly specific about that). As for Dean not leaving Sam, that's different I think. My opinion only alert! : The show (especially under Carver) is sometimes weird that way - it's okay when Dean doesn't leave Sam or goes to great measures to save Sam, because in general not much bad happens that wouldn't have already happened.* For some reason though, it's not okay when Sam does it.

* (Dean's not finishing the tape to go to Sam is maybe questionable, but it looked like that smoke was being pretty persistent anyway, and if the room was airtight, eventually everyone would suffocate anyway, so...)

 

So I liked this pretty much. It annoys me a bit that everything got blamed on Sam - again, but since I was expecting it (I've been mentioning Sam in the role of the goat since last season's finale), I've just come to accept it now. I'm not sure that Carver's going to let Sam be anything else, and I'll be very pleasantly surprised if he does. I've come to the stage of acceptance for now.

[catrox14]

Quote

not leaving you. Ever" which implies that once again Dean can't leave Sam. I don't get it.

Actually God called Sam out for breaking the world - of course. Dean was only mentioned as being a demon, but that the world would still be spinning - in other words, it was all Sam's fault for not accepting that (God/Chuck was fairly specific about that). As for Dean not leaving Sam, that's different I think. My opinion only alert! : The show (e

I kind of don't trust Chuck on that point because how could Chuck let Dean go on killing humans, beating up random assholes etc even if they are shitty humans? Dean only needed to keep the Mark to keep the world spinning he didn't need to be a demon. And IMO Chuck was pretty fucking cavalier about Dean's status and it's HIS fucking fault that the Mark even had to be a thing at all. 

To me that said more about God than it does about Sam. I'm not sure we were supposed to agree with God on that point.

Edited May 5, 2016 by catrox14

[Phebemarie]

Metatron interrupted Chuck mid-amulet reveal just as the mystery of its whereabouts was going to be unveiled.  Does anyone else think that Sam had the amulet all along?  I found it interesting that Chuck re-luminated it just as Dean found it glowing in Sam's pocket.  

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I kind of don't trust Chuck on that point because how could Chuck let Dean go on killing humans, beating up random assholes etc even if they are shitty humans? Dean only needed to keep the Mark to keep the world spinning he didn't need to be a demon. And IMO Chuck was pretty fucking cavalier about Dean's status and it's HIS fucking fault that the Mark even had to be a thing at all. 

To me that said more about God than it does about Sam. I'm not sure we were supposed to agree with God on that point.

You have a point, but God didn't seem to be as concerned about that. He seemed to think that people already killed each other. The threatening his creation part - which is what He was annoyed by - was tied to setting Amara free, and that God seemed to blame on Sam. God seemed to think that Dean as a demon - or with the mark, I guess eventually to become a demon again - wasn't that much of a problem. But it was Sam who failed, and apparently God was tired of bailing him/humanity out... Not that He really bailed Sam out in the first place, because considering the new history that Chuck was always God... just think of what that means in terms of His influencing Sam. It was actually God then who told Sam "that seems to be the way the story is headed." Really? Not too helpful for Sam there were you Chuck? Letting Sam believe he had the right idea in killing Lilith? He didn't seem to worry about Sam going into the cage either. (If anyone should want to punch God/Chuck...) So, yeah, I'm not surprised that He didn't really think to stop/help demon Dean or even mark of Cain Dean.

God/Chuck did seem to be fairly arrogant here, and not accepting that it was his mark that started the problem (since Lucifer* was partially corrupted by the mark God had made), but even if we're not supposed to be on God/Chuck's side here, the narrative definitely made a point - I think - that Dean was not to blame in Amara being called; that it was instead Sam's fault. It was just using God, literally, to drive home that point. (But I kind of already knew that and had been saying it all along. This was just confirmation for me.)

* Interesting that God also denied that Lucifer was his favorite... again maybe to take any blame off of himself for having Lucifer take the mark?

45 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

Metatron interrupted Chuck mid-amulet reveal just as the mystery of its whereabouts was going to be unveiled.  Does anyone else think that Sam had the amulet all along?  I found it interesting that Chuck re-luminated it just as Dean found it glowing in Sam's pocket.  

That was my interpretation, that it was Sam who had it in his jacket. I wasn't sure how I would feel about that, since I could've gone either way - wanting him to save it from the trash or leaving it and respecting Dean's choice to throw it away - but since he never mentioned it to Dean and just kept it for himself, I think I'm okay with Sam having it.

Edited May 5, 2016 by AwesomO4000

[lmdreamer]

"bugs" isn't the greatest episode but I don't think it was only mentioned because it was a bad script.  Wasn't this episode the one where dean told sam that after sam left for Stamford John would visit the campus occasionally to check up on Sam without him knowing? And in doing this showed that even though he was mad at sam and didn't want to leave he still cared.  Or maybe it was just a coincidence.

[catrox14]

34 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

Metatron interrupted Chuck mid-amulet reveal just as the mystery of its whereabouts was going to be unveiled.  Does anyone else think that Sam had the amulet all along?  I found it interesting that Chuck re-luminated it just as Dean found it glowing in Sam's pocket.  

I'll be really pissed off if Sam had it all along. That will be a stupid cop out IMO. I'd rather it was just on some long ass journey. Found in the trash by the cleaning person. They liked it and kept but somehow lost it and it's found by someone else, who gives it someone..blah blah blah. And eventually it ends up with Chuck who materialzes it back into Sam's pocket when he finally decided to talk to Dean and Sam.  Or Chuck himself dug it out of the trash.

[Jediknight]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I'll be really pissed off if Sam had it all along. That will be a stupid cop out IMO. I'd rather it was just on some long ass journey. Found in the trash by the cleaning person. They liked it and kept but somehow lost it and it's found by someone else, who gives it someone..blah blah blah. And eventually it ends up with Chuck who materialzes it back into Sam's pocket when he finally decided to talk to Dean and Sam.  Or Chuck himself dug it out of the trash.

I think Chuck dug it out of the trash, and he materialized it in Sam's pocket.  He put it in Sam's pocket, turned it on to let the boys know he was there, and went outside to fix everything Amara had done.

[catrox14]

If Sam picked it out of the trash and carried it in his pocket did he jump into the pit with it in his pocket? If so, how did he get it back? Or did he put in a safe deposit box before going off to say yes to Lucifer? Did he stash it in the Impala somewhere but somehow Dean never came across it when Dean cleaned the car?  Did Sam just keep it around as  fuck you to Dean for throwing it away? Bah. Sorry.

I should just take up residence in the bitterness thread from here to the end of the series.

14 minutes ago, lmdreamer said:

"bugs" isn't the greatest episode but I don't think it was only mentioned because it was a bad script.  Wasn't this episode the one where dean told sam that after sam left for Stamford John would visit the campus occasionally to check up on Sam without him knowing? And in doing this showed that even though he was mad at sam and didn't want to leave he still cared.  Or maybe it was just a coincidence.

Sadly I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think Bugs is just the ongoing joke.

[AwesomO4000]

Well it did have the insta-dawn Deus ex Machina, so maybe there was a hidden meaning?

[SueB]

EPIC.

That was just outstanding in my mind.  God had an existential crisis for a few millennia. Metatron (!) was a voice of reason and champion for humanity.  The stakes were raised on the major myth arc. Just an fantastic episode.

I'm going to want to spend some serious time unpacking everything (I swear, I could write a novel for just about every scene).  I'll rewatch tomorrow but some things that struck me:

- God is a VERY complex character. And Rob gave a nuanced performance.

- Metatron's sincerity was mind-blowing. I CRIED with and FOR this guy.  This asshole.  Bravo Curtis Armstrong.

- Dean taking a breath of the fog.  WTH was THAT?!

- The LOOK on Sam and Dean's face when the Samulet showed up and was lit.

- The whole construct of God's autobiography to force the discussion.

- Dean NOT down with Chosen One status.

- Actively SAVING PEOPLE. 

 

More post re-watch tomorrow.

This was so deep, moving, painful, and yet SATISFYING.

[catrox14]

Quote

Dean taking a breath of the fog.  WTH was THAT?!

Pretty sure he was either going to go ahead and die with Sam which fuck whatever. OR he was testing it to see if he would die.

[Triskan]

Curtis was amazing this episode ! Say what you will about Metatron, but the day Curtis leaves the show will be a sad day ! (as much as Julian Richings departure, though I havent given up on Death just yet).

And his love and faith of stories always made the character deeply entertaining and fascinating to me, despite all his other flaws, and I'm glad that aspect of Metatron was on fire this week ! 

[GirlyGeek]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

EPIC.

That was just outstanding in my mind.  God had an existential crisis for a few millennia. Metatron (!) was a voice of reason and champion for humanity.  The stakes were raised on the major myth arc. Just an fantastic episode.

I'm going to want to spend some serious time unpacking everything (I swear, I could write a novel for just about every scene).  I'll rewatch tomorrow but some things that struck me:

- God is a VERY complex character. And Rob gave a nuanced performance.

- Metatron's sincerity was mind-blowing. I CRIED with and FOR this guy.  This asshole.  Bravo Curtis Armstrong.

- Dean taking a breath of the fog.  WTH was THAT?!

- The LOOK on Sam and Dean's face when the Samulet showed up and was lit.

- The whole construct of God's autobiography to force the discussion.

- Dean NOT down with Chosen One status.

- Actively SAVING PEOPLE. 

 

More post re-watch tomorrow.

This was so deep, moving, painful, and yet SATISFYING.

Agree, agree agree!

 I have no ill feelings for the Samulet being saved, whether God/Chuck had it all along and put it in Sam's jacket, or whether Sam fished it out of the trash and kept it.  I'm just so glad to see it again!

Rob was absolutely fantastic!  Now the religious side of me cringes at all the Angel/demon/God stuff, so I put it all in a box and don't let it bother me that SPN is basically trashing Christianity with ever breath, lol.  BUT Rob's performance, the subtle and not so subtle switches between Chuck and God, between deity and his pretend character, and the way he and Curtis played off each other = brilliant and moving.  

Yes, I teared up at the end.  Loved the song (beautiful).  I was shocked and saddened to see Dean take that big breath of fog. Loved the look on the boys faces when the amulet showed up.  

Also laughed and loved the Meta stuff- all the episode name dropping, making fun of Bugs which is just a horrible episode (except for the brothers actual relationship stuff in that ep) .

loved that Sam and Dean were actually saving people, or trying really hard at least.

as for Dean, pretty sure he said Stop this you Dick, which I interpreted as him crying out to God. It makes no sense that it would be for Amara, IMO.

 

so much love.  Gotta watch again!

[Aeryn13]

Well, they don`t discriminate, they trash Christianity just as hard as they did trample over other religions. On the other hand, I think they are feeling incredibly edgy and brave by not only daring to bring God in for realz but also making him a whiny, narcisstic coward. I bet the "wow"-factor of it will work for this episode as it dazzles momentarily. Along with all the cutesy meta references.

Personally, I do not think there is much substance to it if you get down to it. Just because they take another big, arguably the biggest, mythological figure in Western society and introduce them into your show doesn`t give you brownie pointls alone. Chuck as a slightly dishevelled prophet was a nice character. God whining about writing being hard - I know, I can see how you can`t really do it, writers - doesn`t have much of a point for me. And writers equating themselves with God(s) and whining how not everyone loves or gets their story is some entitled narcisstic bullshit. This is your job and you are getting paid for it, Boohoo.

Trying to make Metatron the "nice guy" here via some kind of drive-along insta-redemption? Eh, whatever. I`m not gonna forget so easily that he killed Dean. 

Rob Benedict and Curtis Armstrong did great work in those scenes and to whatever level they worked is IMO solely down to their performances, not the written lines.

But the mytharc overall is supposed to be Amara or rather stopping her. And to get behind that goal, I should root against the Darkness and for the Light. Which I do not. Amara as a character is far more sympathetic than that whiny coward of her brother. You could say she is evil because she wants to destroy everything (but Dean which is incidentally who matters to me) but God couldn`t have cared less. So how is he better?

What I really hated was Dean once again "OMG, Sammy, I can`t live, breathe or exist without you and I especially won`t save people if you so much as get a hangnail". You used to have some dignity, Dean, what happened to it?  

Then again infected!Sam whining how he fears he isn`t first for Dean. Seriously? How much more of a Sam-focused golem could Dean be to you? It seriously still isn`t enough? I can`t decide who is more pathetic in this scenario. 

Also hated that stupid necklace coming back. Since it got called "Samulet" and made all about and only Sam, they can collar him with it for all I care. Of course, I fear it`s gonna be the new McGuffin and of course Sam will get to wield it, as the name says.

I did like Amara`s message to Dean and him being immune but the sup"epicness" of the whole thing was IMO all frosting, no cake.  

Best episode ever? Wouldn`t even crack best 150 in my book. 

[mertensia]

Ha! God has a World's Greatest Dad mug! 

I really liked this episode. God's been revealed to be pouty and Metatron showed heroism. Sam and Dean tried to save people and only failed because, well, Amara and fog. It's a better outcome for them than Jus in Bello, though.

[Jediknight]

59 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But the mytharc overall is supposed to be Amara or rather stopping her. And to get behind that goal, I should root against the Darkness and for the Light. Which I do not. Amara as a character is far more sympathetic than that whiny coward of her brother. You could say she is evil because she wants to destroy everything (but Dean which is incidentally who matters to me) but God couldn`t have cared less. So how is he better?

I think what will make him better, is that he'll sacrifice himself to stop Amara and save humanity.  The song and look from Metatron, just makes it seem like Chuck/God is letting it be known he's going to die, and he'll give Heaven to Metatron and Cas, because they love humanity, they'll defend humans.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I think what will make him better, is that he'll sacrifice himself to stop Amara and save humanity.  The song and look from Metatron, just makes it seem like Chuck/God is letting it be known he's going to die,

I know, the show wasn`t exactly subtle about it. First Chuck was all whoopdidu, supposedly happy-fun-guy, then Metatron called him out and he gave the usual justifications "everyone disappointed me, I had to leave" that you would expect the character to get and then the ending was very much "aren`t your hearts warmed? Chuck`s is and he is saving the townsfolk in a glowy light". The beats were very much as I expected them to be. 

And like I said, Rob and Curtis really did a masterful job. I can`t praise them enough here. They did make the scenes work for a first viewing. At least for me.

But the content of their scenes just made me picture Robbie Thompson feeling "this is so clever, meta and profound" with every line. "Deep pholosophical debates with God in a bar, Emmy bait". If the show had a more consistent level of profound, subtle and coherent writing, maybe it wouldn`t have thrown me out of the story so damn much at every turn. 

And the Chuck/Metatron scenes were the meat of it. The Winchesters were in some B-story and it was almost distracting when the ep cut back to that story. You could have cut it and just kept "My dinner with Andre God". 

[Demented Daisy]

Loved it.  Absolutely loved it.  Especially the ending.  I love that they referred back to Kripke's Dogma influences.

And, yes, I loved the Revolution joke.  The Samulet.  God being a dick.  Metatron growing a spine.  Dean ironing Sam's shirt with beer.  Sam getting pissy about it.  (Sam always makes me chuckle in those moments.)  So much goodness in the episode.  Safe House is still my favorite, but this is a close second.

Re-watching now.  Probably a couple more times today, too.  I haven't done that in years.  Very happy right now.