S04.E04: Greek To Me

[Primetimer]

Rush Week forces all the characters to decide how they feel about the Greek system. 'Please leave us out of this.' - Greece.

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[Primetimer]

You'll want to rush to this collection of important imagery from 'Greek To Me'!

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[AndySmith]

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If sex appeal could be personified, this is...the opposite of that.

Hey, it worked for Josh...

C'mon Brenda, at least try to have fun. If for no other reason than to stick it Darla.

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What is the wardrobe apartment doing to Gabrielle Carteris this season?!

You have to wonder if she pissed off someone there.

[Nanna]

Oh my, I have been looking forward to this - for some reason this is an episode that really stands out to me. Perhaps because that's when we meet John Sears, that asshole. I hate him so much, that when the actor showed up on 7th Heaven some years later, I was sure he would turn out to be a rapist priest or something. Because John Sears.

Now, I gotta leave work early so I can listen to the episode...

[Chicken Diablo]

So they flipped Kelly and Brenda's senior year attitudes toward college life to suit the plot. When they were trying to prove Kelly is meant for Dylan, they are ambivalent, but Brenda hearts higher Ed. Now writers make Kelly all co-ed crazy and Brenda over it to show maybe she is actually Dylan's true love. Blerg. Also, Brenda's eyebrow devolution makes this thick-browed gal so so sad. The eyebrows will get even thinner as the 90s progress.

[kfree9]

I always wonder if Greek life popularity is a regional thing and/or depends on the size of the school. I went to a large state university that would be comparable to UCLA (assuming that CU is based on that) and belonging to a sorority or frat was not the norm. In fact, most people were made fun of if they were members of them. However, a friend of mine went to a very small college in the same state and Greek life was expected if you attended. I went to visit her one weekend and wanted to stab myself in the eye when she and her "sisters," had to have an "emergency meeting," about some formal coming up.

Also, is student senate really a thing in college? I cannot even recall something like that going on at my school and I had lots of friends that were involved in all sorts of campus organizations. Never heard of it and don't even know what they would be doing? Especially at a huge school. Yeah, I'm sure the senate at CU really "ran the school," of 30,000 students. Nerds.

[HootyMcBoob]

The lady at Brandon's student senate meeting who announces, "You are being a pain," was my MVP of the episode. Truer words, unreasonable hippie. Truer words.

[Racj82]

Sears is creepy as fuck. I hate stalking characters who get their way like its supposed to be cute at all. Fall back man. 

I don't have an issue with Brenda asking Dylan about the whole sorority issue. She was asking a friend for their opinion. Especially, someone removed from the whole process. Not asking a guy about something female oriented.

What do Donna and David even do sexually? You would think David never even had his dick touched before by a girl the way he acts. Simmer down man.

I actually don't mind the way Brandon talks to his parents in those little moments. It just reads as parents don't understand or are too old type reactions which I think every teen feels at some point. Just gentle ribbing. Generally, Brandon can still fuck off though.

I can't relate to any of this college stuff. Never have. TV makes you feel like college is just a natural progression of life but it's not for a lot of people. It never in my mind most people I knew that I was going to a four year college. Too much money involved. I went to a two year, got it all paid with assistance and kept it moving after I finished. A huge chunk of my senior class was right there with me.

[marny]

Tara asked about the notion of there being enough frats/sororities for each culture/race demographic to have its own house-- it's actually not that uncommon.  At my school, there were Jewish frats/sororities, black frats/sororities, and I know there was a Latino frat. Most of the Greek houses were integrated of course, but there definitely were some that were specifically geared towards certain cultural/racial groups.  We also had some co-ed houses.  And my university wasn't small, but it wasn't as big as it seems like CU is supposed to be.

[MyAimIsTrue]

As much as I loved Andrea I don't know which reference made me happier, Sylvia Miles or chuppah hair.

[sinnerforhire]

I find it interesting that John Sears is basically the younger version of Dan Scott, Paul Johanssen's character on One Tree Hill. Makes me wonder about typecasting, because he's SO good at playing an asshole.

[Amy88888]

I was in the same "class" as the 90210 crew, so I went through high school and college exactly when they did. And I have to say, looking at these pictures is like looking through my college photo albums (remember those?). All of my pictures of semi-formal sorority events are full of every floral pattern imaginable, and there was a lot of plaid then too. And overalls. And I owned a floral, rayon romper that I wore proudly. And I really shouldn't have.

[txhorns79]

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Also, is student senate really a thing in college? I cannot even recall something like that going on at my school and I had lots of friends that were involved in all sorts of campus organizations. Never heard of it and don't even know what they would be doing? Especially at a huge school. Yeah, I'm sure the senate at CU really "ran the school," of 30,000 students. Nerds.

My college had student government.  I don't recall it being as big a deal as they make it in the episode.  I recall that 90210 treats it as deeply important, and extremely boring, all at the same time. 

[MissEwa]

17 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I recall that 90210 treats it as deeply important, and extremely boring, all at the same time. 

We didn't have sororities or fraternities or campus radio stations - or (spoiler) TV stations - so this is the one thing in these awful episodes I relate to, and that is exactly what student politics is - completely meaningless self-importance. Ugh. Although the "progressives" were not wearing pleated slacks and blouses. The conservatives might be wearing collared shirts but even then they wouldn't be button-downs. 

Poor Carteris. I think the problem was that in those early pre-bump days of pregnancy what basically happens is you just lose your waist and wearing tight things across your middle is uncomfortable and awkward, so everything you wear either sits under or over. These days, most people go for under, with longer tops, but in the high-waisted 90s that would not have been an option, so instead their hoiking all her clothes up unreasonably high, making for camel toe and other unflattering things going on down there. Still, the clothes she wore through most of high school would have worked better for this - why they suddenly started putting her in tight shorts and tank tops is beyond me. 

I don't know much about Judaism but Andrea hasn't exactly had a problem not flaunting her religion thus far. It's come up, what, once? In three seasons? In between plenty of megabugers with cheese? Maybe it drifts in and out of existence like her sister. 

[Onfire444]

I have to quibble a teeny bit with some of the "no one cares!" in this episode. I went to UVA in the late 90s, and I am embarrassed to say, people took Greek life and also student government pretty seriously. There was a huge politico clique of kids who were on Student Council, Honor Committee, Judiciary Committee, or Jefferson Society. I was on the student newspaper, and we all took ourselves very seriously. I can remember covering the student government elections as big news. And I can see how frat guys could maybe feel defensive about a "progressive." Frats have pretty much been defending themselves from a growing movement to shut down the Greek system since the 80s.

[Tara Ariano]

4 hours ago, marny said:

Tara asked about the notion of there being enough frats/sororities for each culture/race demographic to have its own house-- it's actually not that uncommon. 

I knew it happens that different groups have their own houses -- but Andrea says "Jewish sororities," "Asian sororities," like each faith or ethnicity might have more than one. That just seemed like a lot.

[helent]

Student Union was pretty big at my uni in Australia, and actually can lead on to a real career in politics. The major political parties run in the student elections (as well as a bunch of fringier ones - hmm, shall I vote Socialist Alliance or Socialist Alternative?). And there have been stories in the news recently about things that our most recent PM Abbott got up to in his student politics days, so he clearly started there. The union provided a lot of services that the uni didn't so it was somewhat important.

It was very cut-throat - I remember groups staging late night raids to tear down other parties' posters. And we used to get 'lecture-bashed' - you'd turn up to class to see some sweaty candidate pacing at the front, who would then try to steal a couple of minutes before the lecture started to stump. But it was probably a minority of people who actually voted and cared. And definitely it wasn't that way at smaller or more specialised unis.

I also credit student elections with my ability to blank anyone trying to sell me something in the street because the union building during elections was a total mob scene that required you to fend off all the candidates and their lackeys trying to shove flyers at you. 

[Jmallory]

I have to say I really liked John Sears. The show needed a jerk and someone to piss of Dylweed, which I liked. I really wished that John wasn't a senior on the show because I would have really liked him to be on 90210 another season and team up with Val.
Someone was mad at Gabrielle. I mean, yeah she's shaped like a Hungarian gymnast, but they could've found something decent for her body.

[dianajoy]

3 hours ago, Tara Ariano said:

I knew it happens that different groups have their own houses -- but Andrea says "Jewish sororities," "Asian sororities," like each faith or ethnicity might have more than one. That just seemed like a lot.

I think it depends on how sizable that particular population is at the school. I went to a school with a lot of African-American students and they had multiple African-American fraternities/sororities.

[AndySmith]

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I knew it happens that different groups have their own houses -- but Andrea says "Jewish sororities," "Asian sororities," like each faith or ethnicity might have more than one. That just seemed like a lot.

Depending on the size of the university, and if there were enough people from that particular group, it is possible to have more than one frat/srat. CU does seem to a magical university that offers whatever the story needs.

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I went to UVA in the late 90s

Me too! Class of 2000 here. I think the Greek students took Greek life more seriously than those not in a frat/srat. For us, Rugby Road just a place to party on the weekends until you and your friends began having off grounds house parties, and till you could hit the bar scene, legally or illegally. Hell the last frat party I ever went to was maybe mid-fall semester of my third year.

If anything, I don't think there is a "one size fits all" model for colleges and universities in the US. The prominence of Greek like varied depending on size of institution, location, off-campus alternatives, etc. Again, CU was just that magical place where even though it was located in Los Angeles, it still had a huge and popular Greek scene.

And yes, y'all did take yourselves seriously, but we still loved you for it ;)

[Petunia13]

Josh Richland reminds me of some one maybe Steve from Sex in the City. He also has a very Winston Egbert appearance. 

His esteem for Brandon is unearned and terribly out of place. 

Ohhhndrea's hair is too light. 

Is that a Mahjongg tile on Brenda's choker?

oh hi Dan. I'm doing a rewatch of OTH right now.  That show was wonderful, horrible, cheesy, funny,  everything, a mosquito, my libido. 

[SoupThrower]

Sears is creepy but hey you need those people in fiction. 

Really wished around this time that David would just break up with Donna or vice versa. It is really, really, really annoying. David being horny isn't really a surprise, teenaged guy, been with the same girl for nearly 2 years?, he wants to do it and she has been close a few times but said no. I mean you can blame him but is anyone really surprised? 

I gotta side with Dylan in that he doesn't have to go to every single party that Kelly wants him to. Also agree with Brandon on the whole "How are you going to pay for it?" and then SPORTS!!!! because sports are important. 

[SoupThrower]

Oh Greek Life is serious business and there were a lot, a lot of choices for race, religion and stuff. I was part of it, I had fun and it does make a difference in college life. People take life seriously in college because it is the period of life where you want to make something of yourself or think you can make a difference when you really can't.

[FozzyBear]

From what I remember of my friends who went to school in LA during this period, Greek life was pretty big. UCLA and USC both had really active systems. Much more so then if you were at school in Northern California. Again, just depends on the school, but portraying CU as having a big Greek system didn't strike me as odd. Portraying any college freshman having Andrea's soccer mom haircut strikes me as odd. 

[txhorns79]

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Again, CU was just that magical place where even though it was located in Los Angeles, it still had a huge and popular Greek scene.

I'm not sure I follow this.  For example, UT is located in Austin, but Greek life is a big deal there.  I would agree it just depends on the particular school.  For some schools, Greek life was a big deal, at others it wasn't.  At my university there were and still are fraternities and sororities that are heavily Jewish, even if they no longer have an official policy of only taking Jewish pledges. 

I was never exactly sure what they were trying to say about Alpha O in the episode.  Leslie's speech to Andrea at the end of the episode made it sound like Andrea being Jewish was an actual thing for the sorority, or at least Leslie viewed it that way, but Donna and Kelly still joined anyways.    

[AndySmith]

I'm just basing it on friends I know who went to schools in comparable cities to LA like New York, Miami, Chicago, and DC. While their schools had strong Greek scenes, it wasn't the be all and end all of campus life, since those cities offered a wealth of options and substitutes for people to party and have fun  in, without ever having to attend a Greek party. Greek life was big for those in the system, but for many others, it was eh.

Edited May 3, 2016 by AndySmith

[Cekrypton1]

Credit where it's due: Dylan's "What theme? Man vs Nature? Reality vs. Perception?" made me laugh outloud.

[marny]

2 hours ago, Cekrypton1 said:

Credit where it's due: Dylan's "What theme? Man vs Nature? Reality vs. Perception?" made me laugh outloud.

Agreed. And Kelly's sheepish "Disco Fever" in response was cute. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by marny
Typo

[FozzyBear]

1 hour ago, Cekrypton1 said:

Credit where it's due: Dylan's "What theme? Man vs Nature? Reality vs. Perception?" made me laugh outloud.

For once 90210 landed a pretty decent joke. I'm about 1 season ahead of this episode, don't expect it to happen again.

[FozzyBear]

Ugg, Kelly/Dylan is really that start of Kelly being a clingy, nagging, controlling, mess of a human. It gets so bad. 

[doingthejackal]

  On 5/2/2016 at 3:19 PM, marny said:

Tara asked about the notion of there being enough frats/sororities for each culture/race demographic to have its own house-- it's actually not that uncommon. 

I knew it happens that different groups have their own houses -- but Andrea says "Jewish sororities," "Asian sororities," like each faith or ethnicity might have more than one. That just seemed like a lot.

At UCLA today, there are three historically Jewish frats; I think in the early nineties, they had at least one Jewish sorority? Why yes, I was a member and chapter advisor of Alpha Epsilon Phi, the largest Jewish sorority in the nation (Notorious RGB was an AEPhi, holla), why, don't you have random Greek trivia in your back pocket? No, but seriously, since the late 90s/early 00s, Jewish sororities have taken a pretty big hit in membership, partly because the anti-Semitic bullshit was dying out and partly because the Jewish sororities weren't as hooked in to Panhellenic to get themselves onto campuses--it's a big whole thing, but the bottom line is: nah, it's not a lot, especially back in the early 90s (and earlier, given that the writers, I bet, went to college in the 70s and 80s, when Jewish girls who wanted to rush could ONLY get into Jewish sororities like AEPhi and Sigma Delta Tau.

But good lord, Leslie Sumner, we wouldn't have rushed Ohndrea. Girl is a buzzkill. Que sera ser-nuh uh.

[doingthejackal]

So, I've worked in universities for fifteen years now--both as a professor and as an administrator, where I've worked in Greek Life, Student Conduct, Athletics, and now senior-level administration. I'm rating it about half-bullshit so far. The biggest bullshit is that Kelly, Donna, and David could live off-campus their freshman year--unless you're living at home, most schools have a requirement that you live on campus your first year.

The most accurate is Brandon. Off the top of my head, I can name you five smug freshmen who think they know how to do my job better than me after being at school for a hot second (and when they are sophomores--hoo boy, they know it all. Spoiler!). Though at least their sock/sneaker game is more on point. Damn, boy.

[queenbee9b]

16 hours ago, doingthejackal said:

At UCLA today, there are three historically Jewish frats; I think in the early nineties, they had at least one Jewish sorority? Why yes, I was a member and chapter advisor of Alpha Epsilon Phi, the largest Jewish sorority in the nation (Notorious RGB was an AEPhi, holla), why, don't you have random Greek trivia in your back pocket? No, but seriously, since the late 90s/early 00s, Jewish sororities have taken a pretty big hit in membership, partly because the anti-Semitic bullshit was dying out and partly because the Jewish sororities weren't as hooked in to Panhellenic to get themselves onto campuses--it's a big whole thing, but the bottom line is: nah, it's not a lot, especially back in the early 90s (and earlier, given that the writers, I bet, went to college in the 70s and 80s, when Jewish girls who wanted to rush could ONLY get into Jewish sororities like AEPhi and Sigma Delta Tau.

But good lord, Leslie Sumner, we wouldn't have rushed Ohndrea. Girl is a buzzkill. Que sera ser-nuh uh.

My college we had 3 historically Jewish sororities and 4 historically Black sororities.  On the other hand, we also had a student government where the students running all thought that they were going to go on to be president of the US. There is an urban legend that Alec Baldwin transfered to NYU because he lost his race for SA President.  So basically, I went to CU and all the people were like Brandons in real life! 

[queenbee9b]

On 5/2/2016 at 4:27 PM, sinnerforhire said:

I find it interesting that John Sears is basically the younger version of Dan Scott, Paul Johanssen's character on One Tree Hill. Makes me wonder about typecasting, because he's SO good at playing an asshole.

And Dan Scott is the younger version of the jerk he played in the last season of Mad Men. I've heard Paul Johanssen on a couple of podcasts and he sounds so nice and he talked about how he loved interacting with fans on twitter and talks about how appreciative he is for any acting work he gets.   Which is such a weird thing because he ALWAYS plays such a jerk!  

[AndySmith]

One of the few times I've seen him play a nice guy was on Santa Barbara. Of course, that was pre-90210...

[Uncle JUICE]

On 5/2/2016 at 2:52 PM, Racj82 said:

 

What do Donna and David even do sexually? You would think David never even had his dick touched before by a girl the way he acts. Simmer down man.

 

I often wondered this too! The lack of Donna ever being protrayed as legitimately horny makes her seem unhealthy, she has to have some libido too, but they definitely don't portray them as the "We're way into oral!" types. I picture Donna as grossed out by David's dick most of the time, and him furiously beating off after forty minutes of kissing and light groping over clothes. 

[4Sibes Redux]

I attended Missouri University (Mizzou) from the mid to the late 80's. The Greek System was a big thing. And I'm fairly certain that each of the student body govenment presidents were all members of fraternities and sororities. It always struck me as weird that at CU, the two were considered in conflict.

I don't see the link for Visual Aids on this. Am I overlooking it?

[Petunia13]

Dan was the biggest asshole on tv. 

[Nanna]

Brandon in this episode is a rerun of "Bran the Man" in season 1. Once again he decides to run for office without having the faintest idea about what he wants to stand for. In season 1 he let Kelly decide everything because he wanted to win. In this episode he says yes to run for a party without even asking what the main causes of the party are. He just loves to see himself as a Kennedy, just as much as Jim does. 

[Tara Ariano]

On May 4, 2016 at 8:53 AM, 4Sibes Redux said:

I don't see the link for Visual Aids on this. Am I overlooking it?

Yep.

[DonitsYum]

I am shocked that they didn't insert the Racially Insensitive Music Cue into the scene with Andrea and Ms. Sumner-Schulman

[heshy]

21 hours ago, DonitsYum said:

I am shocked that they didn't insert the Racially Insensitive Music Cue into the scene with Andrea and Ms. Sumner-Schulman

Maybe money was too tight to license "Papa Can You Hear Me" from Yentl.