S04.E06: The Rat

[Darren]

I don't know if William's overtly critical attitude toward the KGB and his work are grounds enough to conclude that William can be taken in completely at face value, especially given how often and very rarely are characters who they completely appear to be. 

It is for me.  Or, if there is more there to him, it's not that he's a double-agent.

And, from my perspective, the most interesting - and ultimately effective - double-agents are the ones you never see coming. Not the ones that it occurs to you could very well be because they already appear conflicted.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Darren

[millennium]

Martha has never looked more beautiful than when she turned in the street and defied Gabriel.

 

I will miss her.

[sistermagpie]

Tim doesn't know they're KGB. They've gone to huge lengths to hide that from him.

 

 

They've gone to great effort to convince him the work they do isn't violent. That's not quite the same. The KGB is the intelligence branch of the USSR. If Philip and Elizabeth are spies, they are KGB. Paige saying "they're Russian spies" = They're KGB. It's not like it's some fantasy organization that might not really exist, after all. It's just the Russian equivalent of the CIA or NSA, a part of a huge bureaucracy. Arkady, Nina and Oleg are all KGB. Tim could believe they're just not doing particularly violent work for the KGB but if he's convinced himself there's some other department for spies in Russia with a less scary name, that's on him. As someone alive and conscious during the Cold War in the US I can say I can't remember anybody ever thinking there was any other person a Russian spy worked for.

 

And I seriously doubt Philip would have told Martha everything about his incredibly illegal work if she'd only asked.

 

 

Not everything, of course. He hasn't told her everything now. But he confessed to murdering Gene with Elizabeth's encouragement. I don't see how that's less explosive and scary than saying the words KGB, which Martha already knew was a possibility. I don't think she had any idea he might kill someone before he told her he did it. Iirc, the book/movie of The Godfather never uses the word Mafia--everybody still knows it's about the Mafia.

 

But my point was just that it's not unheard of for sources to know they're working for the KGB, not that Martha was in any way the same as Jared or Gregory. In fact, let's remember that Jared was actually the stupider decision here, and it came straight from the top. Martha was ready to stick with Clark after knowing he was KGB. It was just the worst of all possibility scenarios she'd considered. Jared was a teenager completely destabilized by the plan who only seemed okay on the surface but wound up murdering his whole family. Martha's reaction, by contrast, is actually a lot better. No new information drove her way as long as she had Clark.

 

It's just not really true that she had no idea what was going on. She specifically asked to not have details shared with her because she knew enough to know she was committing treason and would go to jail for what she did. She knew a co-worker had been murdered by this guy to keep her position safe. She herself had gotten to where she was ready to hear the truth and that's why she asked. The best she could say before that was that she knew she was providing classified counterespionage info at the height of the Cold War to some shadowy network of people who wanted it...but she didn't know what letters were on their business cards (or which alphabet those letters were from). That's not much.

 

It is for me.  Or, if there is more there to him, it's not that he's a double-agent.

 

 

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more difficult it is for him to be an actual double agent because if he's that they're already blown. Even if he didn't get Philip to join him in his betrayal, he can easily hand him and Elizabeth over, along with Gabriel and who knows what else.

 

But that doesn't mean there's a less obvious, more interesting way they can go with this whole thing.

[scartact]

It is for me.  Or, if there is more there to him, it's not that he's a double-agent.

And, from my perspective, the most interesting - and ultimately effective - double-agents are the ones you never see coming. Not the ones that it occurs to you could very well be because they already appear conflicted.

Fair enough; I'm just generally a little resistant about saying someone is exactly who they appear to me, especially on The Americans. I still think it's a pretty interesting theory to consider, even if it's ultimately fruitless and William is definitely not a double agent.

 

Not everything, of course. He hasn't told her everything now. But he confessed to murdering Gene with Elizabeth's encouragement. I don't see how that's less explosive and scary than saying the words KGB, which Martha already knew was a possibility. I don't think she had any idea he might kill someone before he told her he did it. Iirc, the book/movie of The Godfather never uses the word Mafia--everybody still knows it's about the Mafia.

 

But my point was just that it's not unheard of for sources to know they're working for the KGB, not that Martha was in any way the same as Jared or Gregory. In fact, let's remember that Jared was actually the stupider decision here, and it came straight from the top. Martha was ready to stick with Clark after knowing he was KGB. It was just the worst of all possibility scenarios she'd considered. Jared was a teenager completely destabilized by the plan who only seemed okay on the surface but wound up murdering his whole family. Martha's reaction, by contrast, is actually a lot better. No new information drove her way as long as she had Clark.

 

It's just not really true that she had no idea what was going on. She specifically asked to not have details shared with her because she knew enough to know she was committing treason and would go to jail for what she did. She knew a co-worker had been murdered by this guy to keep her position safe. She herself had gotten to where she was ready to hear the truth and that's why she asked. The best she could say before that was that she knew she was providing classified counterespionage info at the height of the Cold War to some shadowy network of people who wanted it...but she didn't know what letters were on their business cards (or which alphabet those letters were from). That's not much.

 

 

I think when I initially pondered Elizabeth's feelings of personal and professional betrayal when she learns of Philip's de-wigging, I was pondering whether or not Philip also clearly admitting to Martha in a way that leaves her with absolutely no doubt just exactly how she had (unknowingly and then eventually knowingly without knowing the full details) committed treason would further piss Elizabeth off. I tend to always think in context of the marriage, which gives me some blinders when it comes to the other characters because I always want to know how anything will ultimately affect P&E.

 

I was also thinking about how much of that artifice Philip has constructed for Martha is continuing to collapse, to the point where it's almost surprising to me she doesn't know he actually goes by "Philip" and "Clark" is the last vestige of that identity Martha is desperate to cling onto as her last hope. Martha seems to be the opposite of Paige when she tried to limit as much of her knowledge as possible.

Edited April 23, 2016 by scartact

[CaliCheeseSucks]

I don't necessarily think that William *is* currently a double-agent. But, the amount of information he is collecting from Phillip suggests to me that those reveals will bear fruit for the FBI in closing in on Phillip and Elizabeth down the road - however William ends up divulging it (voluntarily flipping to save his own ass, perhaps copious notes he keeps in a journal, what have you). There's been a little too much of it for me to believe that this isn't going to be relevant in the future. Same with Chekhov's computer and Henry's budding friendship with Stan. P&E are very focused on the liability caused by Paige with Pastor Tim and Martha's instability - when the real seeds of their downfall are staring them in the face from other corners.  

Edited April 23, 2016 by CaliCheeseSucks

[sistermagpie]

I was pondering whether or not Philip also clearly admitting to Martha in a way that leaves her with absolutely no doubt just exactly how she had (unknowingly and then eventually knowingly without knowing the full details) committed treason would further piss Elizabeth off. I tend to always think in context of the marriage, which gives me some blinders when it comes to the other characters because I always want to know how anything will ultimately affect P&E.

 

 

I think also part of the insecurity she has with Martha is that Philip spends so much time with her as a husband she just doesn't know Martha like he does and there's times where he tells her that. Like when Martha wanted a baby and Elizabeth was like, "Well, tell her no. Who wears the pants in that family?" and Philip was just like...it doesn't work like that. Like he knows Martha as a full personality who can be difficult to control. She's not just a woman who does whatever he says. So this seems like one of those times where even if Elizabeth was angry that he'd admitted too much Philip would just be like look, there was no point in lying about it. Which would make her upset because it's a reminder that the Martha/Clark relationship isn't just something controlled by her and Philip.

 

Really, it's a lot like Paige. The told her because they realized the relationship and moment called for the truth--or some truth. I don't think Elizabeth likes any truth being shared with Martha and it was terrible for her to walk in and be the person playing catch up when she saw Clark (a bit like when Philip learned about her and Gregory from Gregory, but not quite as bad).

 

I was also thinking about how much of that artifice Philip has constructed for Martha is continuing to collapse, to the point where it's almost surprising to me she doesn't know he actually goes by "Philip" and "Clark" is the last vestige of that identity Martha is desperate to cling onto as her last hope.

 

 

But Clark actually is actually clinging to this false identity just as much as Martha is. He's having to adjust it as it collapses, but the basic lie stays the same: Clark has always been a guy with a job to do who went off the reservation by falling in love with Martha. Whatever details he has to change (he works for somebody other than the CIA, he doesn't really have blonde hair or glasses, Jennifer isn't his sister, it's the KGB he really works for) that part has to remain intact because that's what she's in for. This is why I really wonder if it'll lead up to him keeping that going. Martha either eventually winds up essentially imprisoned and abandoned in the USSR because Clark tricked her there just to keep her alive (and she'd no doubt kill herself soon after despite state support) or he'll pretend he's going with her right up until he kills her.

 

In a way I feel like what we're seeing with Clark and Martha are two people pathetically holding on to fantasies that are obviously over. Martha wants to believe in her love with Clark and that she's going to run off to Peru and live with him in peace and love conquers all. Philip wants to believe he can keep this woman alive and safe and so somehow do right by her. But those two fantasies are completely at odds with each other.

 

I don't necessarily think that William *is* currently a double-agent. But, the amount of information he is collecting from Phillip suggests to me that those reveals will bear fruit for the FBI in closing in on Phillip and Elizabeth down the road - however William ends up divulging it (voluntarily flipping to save his own ass, perhaps copious notes he keeps in a journal, what have you).

 

 

But to be fair, what he knows about them is standard for Illegals. The Connors knew far more about them--they knew a ton about each others' kids as well as where they lived and everything about their lives. William knows they have a son and a daughter, but that's pretty standard for married Illegals to have 2 kids. He knows they've been together for 20 years, that Elizabeth is still all in and Philip's burnt out. Leanne Connor knew Elizabeth was reluctant to have kids and Elizabeth knew where Leanne had a secret note written to her son detailing all they did. Philip didn't know about Robert's secret wife, but it seemed like he could have known.

Edited April 23, 2016 by sistermagpie

[magemaud]

Was Philip's blonde wig/beard a new disguise from his bag of tricks? It was more convincing than usual because when he met William to get the rat, for a second I thought to myself, "Who's THAT guy?" And speaking of their disguises, aren't there times when they leave or return to the house in them and doesn't Stan notice? 

[sistermagpie]

And speaking of their disguises, aren't there times when they leave or return to the house in them and doesn't Stan notice?

 

 

They're never near the houses in them. They change in and out of disguise in other places and go out/come home as themselves.

[Umbelina]

The William discussion is interesting.

 

I agree that if he were already a double agent, Philip, Elizabeth, and Gabe would already be "blown."

 

Although William seems pretty world-weary and aware, so he could be trading little things, and holding on to the big stuff for the time when he wants more.  Still, I doubt it, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.  Just because he's a double wouldn't mean he would tell the FBI or CIA everything.

 

So, what do we know about him?

 

• He hasn't produced anything of value in 25 years.
• He balked at being sent to the higher, more secret floor (or operation) where he works.
• His partner/wife was disappeared, back to the Soviet Union, quite a while ago.  (anyone catch when?)
• Gabe insists he's "loyal."
• He said something about a coffin when Philip mentioned he could go home a hero  if he got something big. (again a bit of help here on wording!?)
• He certainly seems unhappy, listless, world weary and resigned.
• He showed no enthusiasm, pride, relief, or even much interest in turning over bio weapons for his county.

 

My impression is of a guy who is trapped and in a cage, and gotten used to his cage, isn't fighting it, says and does the bare minimum so his owners feed him occasionally and don't kill him.  He's going through the motions, like a depressed person who sees no good options or even the possibility of joy or happiness of any kind.  He's older, his best years are behind him (in his mind) and there is no escape possible so make the cage as comfortable as possible, sit up, shake hands, or roll over occasionally to keep the status quo.  He just strikes me as someone sick of the whole thing, jaded about politics, I doubt he sees much difference between the USA and USSR as far as good/bad, but he has seen life in the USA, which is undoubtedly better for the average person, at least as far as food/job choice, etc.

 

William could end up being very, very interesting.  I think Gabe's wrong about his loyalty.

[jjj]

Here is my take on William, more clear in this episode -- he is burned out, totally jaded, and is still dealing with demands from the KGB to "produce" something.  Meanwhile, has to continue his cover job, which is much more strenuous than working at a travel agency, because he has to show up and work every day.  (Probably punch in, also, at a facility like that.)  Hates his "real" job (KGB), hates his cover job, and lives an outside life that is literally encased in plastic coating.  Nothing gets through to him.

 

Then Philip shows up, who at first is another KGB "suit" as far as William is concerned, but he gets a bat-squeak vibration of recognition that Philip is on the path to William's disillusionment.  And then William discovers that Philip is the first person he can actually talk to in decades, while Philip finds someone who understands his life and the cracks he has been finding and creating in that life.  These are two people who cautiously approach having actual real conversations, which we saw in this episode. If you have bottled up your thoughts for a long time, they come out in spurts, not a flood -- and we saw a few spurts from William, while we saw Philip try to figure out if William is someone he actually can talk to, then a spurt about un-named Martha to William. 

 

I think William holds up a mirror to Philip that is both comradeship ("Comrade!") and a cautionary tale.  Philip could be on a path either to become William (burned out and non-productive) or William's wife, banished back to Russia.

 

In a previous episode, the look William gave Philip/Elizabeth at the end of the housebound episode was a mixture of bafflement and envy, but it was not the calculating look of a double agent.   Maybe William had a true business marriage, not a marriage of affection? 

[Dowel Jones]

And on a completely unrelated note:  I know where Martha can hide:  Wayward Pines. 

[shura]

That's quite a parallel show I am reading about here. It has a fake mom, for no significantly better apparent reason than why not. There is a guy who asks human questions and acts all sympathetic, so he must be a double agent (and I agree, it is suspicious to care about a person who blatantly spat in your face). But he is totally going to marry Elizabeth. How may episodes did you guys say are left? I can't wait to see what happens next.

[Chaos Theory]

After watching the episode like five times I noticed something. After all the talk about Martha's looks her replacement was a blonde blue eyed traditionally beautiful woman. Wonder if that was on purpose?

[sistermagpie]

These are two people who cautiously approach having actual real conversations, which we saw in this episode. If you have bottled up your thoughts for a long time, they come out in spurts, not a flood -- and we saw a few spurts from William, while we saw Philip try to figure out if William is someone he actually can talk to, then a spurt about un-named Martha to William.

 

 

It does make sense. William first sees how Philip cares about Elizabeth, they've both admitted they see the job is crazy, then he mentions his agent. William asks about the agent, but might be just wanting to say something about his wife, about whom he might not have spoken in years.

 

It's pretty interesting that Gabriel basically introduced the guy by talking about his wife. There wasn't really a reason for him to say that William ever had a wife, but Gabriel mentioned it as part of his story. I don't think that's necessarily suspicious at all--Gabriel was using it as a cautionary tale to the Jennings to be grateful and he'd already explained how he was in the US even longer than they were. So he had a reason for giving the Jennings that info, but it also almost implies that there's a dramatic story there that everyone in the KGB from that time knows. Gabriel just said "It didn't work out" and William was quite the curmudgeon so it almost seemed like they just couldn't work together. Now it turns out she was the problem?

 

Anyway, he threw that out to Philip in this ep but we'll see if he questions him about it. It might be a little too much for him to just come out with that. And pretty much always on this show the more interesting stories come from peoples' relationships and not any plot twist about somebody defecting or not or being a spy or not. The only people who have even ever been part of a story like that are...really only Jared. And he wasn't ever a really character, he was just a child-symbol on which Philip and Elizabeth could project their own fears about their kids. Everybody else pretty much is exactly who they say they are--at least to the extent our leads are. Everybody has secrets and many faces. But the show almost never places spy-gotcha for a twist.

 

Also William/Philip makes an interesting counterpoint to Elizabeth/Young-Hee. Now she's the one with the fake friendship she's enjoying and will end in tears and Philip's got his first Centre-friend he can talk to. Of course, that friendship (or whatever we call it) could end in tears too.

 

After watching the episode like five times I noticed something. After all the talk about Martha's looks her replacement was a blonde blue eyed traditionally beautiful woman. Wonder if that was on purpose?

 

 

I noticed that too. They're not taking any chances. LOL.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

Realistically, her fill-in was someone from the secretarial pool. It's a contrast between an older employee who has been in her position for some time, and a younger person looking for the opportunity to break out of what is essentially a temp assignment within government. I'm not sure if there's more to it than that. In all likelihood, the secretary Gaad mentioned not bringing to the job with him would have been Martha's age as well. 

[jjj]

About the conversation about Martha's attractiveness -- remember when Philip played her that false recording of the FBI agents discussing her looks in a derogatory manner?  He felt bad about that, but it turns out his fake recording was not that far from the actual conversation.

 

Also, would you not love to see William's face when/if Philip tells him more of the truth:  "That agent I'm trying to get out?  I married her, and she thinks I am escaping with her.  And I have feelings, so many feelings, for her."  William would have an Emmy moment of a reaction there! 

[babyPhat279]

I've always been a "Poor Martha" person but now I'm really becoming more "Poor Phillip." Gabriel and Elizabeth are pissed AF at him, and I feel like he's just trying to not be a monster. I do think he has feelings for Martha, but not strong enough that he'd ever pick her over Elizabeth. I imagine it must feel at least a tiny bit good to have someone who would throw everything away to be with him, which is not something we may ever see from Elizabeth.

 

And I really do think that even if part of him wanted Martha to know the truth and see him without his disguise, what he did was more about trying to get her to keep trusting him. This wouldn't have happened if the pen wasn't discovered.

 

My prediction is that Phillip will have to be the one to kill her now, at the very least to try to smooth things over with everyone. And if that happens I expect there to be some emotional shutdown that will happen as well. Or perhaps he will be sent away for awhile, for some sort of "re-education" to keep him more in line.

[snowblossom2]

About the conversation about Martha's attractiveness -- remember when Philip played her that false recording of the FBI agents discussing her looks in a derogatory manner?  He felt bad about that, but it turns out his fake recording was not that far from the actual conversation.

 

Also, would you not love to see William's face when/if Philip tells him more of the truth:  "That agent I'm trying to get out?  I married her, and she thinks I am escaping with her.  And I have feelings, so many feelings, for her."  William would have an Emmy moment of a reaction there!

I thought that was a real recording, not a faked one?

[Umbelina]

Realistically, her fill-in was someone from the secretarial pool. It's a contrast between an older employee who has been in her position for some time, and a younger person looking for the opportunity to break out of what is essentially a temp assignment within government. I'm not sure if there's more to it than that. In all likelihood, the secretary Gaad mentioned not bringing to the job with him would have been Martha's age as well.

 

You could be right, but I seriously doubt, after a major security leak, they are going to give the head of the DC branch of the FBI a "temp" to fill in.  True that all "temps" would be completely vetted, but this is the head of the office, I'm sure he got someone very experienced and competent.

 

 

About the conversation about Martha's attractiveness -- remember when Philip played her that false recording of the FBI agents discussing her looks in a derogatory manner?  He felt bad about that, but it turns out his fake recording was not that far from the actual conversation.

 

He didn't fake that, it really was there.  I can't remember if they cut and pasted some of it, but those guys said all of it.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

He didn't fake that, it really was there.  I can't remember if they cut and pasted some of it, but those guys said all of it.H

 

 

He did cut and paste some of it to make it worse. Like in his version Gaad said "Martha's not so bad" referring to her personality. (I think they were talking about her being a stickler for rules or something--ha) And in the Clark version he said, "Martha's ugly."

 

Iirc, it was still obnoxious. Like I think they were joking about somebody wanting to do Martha or something? But he did doctor it to make it even worse.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

You could be right, but I seriously doubt, after a major security leak, they are going to give the head of the DC branch of the FBI a "temp" to fill in.  True that all "temps" would be completely vetted, but this is the head of the office, I'm sure he got someone very experienced and competent.

 

I'm not talking about a temp the way you think of them in the private sector. Cabinet agencies have internal secretarial pools of people who have already been hired and processed (and for jobs at the highest levels in any cabinet agency, cleared appropriately). They fill in as-needed for planned and unplanned administrative absences, and generally of course have the inside track when a stationary/regular full-time position becomes open. That woman was no doubt from the DOJ secretarial pool.

Edited April 24, 2016 by CaliCheeseSucks

[jjj]

I should have said doctored recording!  My recollection is that he took references to Martha that were innocuous, and spliced in other words that made it sound quite dismissive of her attractiveness (I remember him splicing!) -- and that was not what the conversation had been about.  My point was that this week's actual conversation should make Philip feel less bad about having spliced together that other tape.  Not that he would ever know about the Stan/Aderholt conversation!  But he did really hesitate over playing the other tape to Martha, which was an early sign of his conflicted emotions about her. 

That woman was no doubt from the DOJ secretarial pool.

I think that in the minds of the showrunners, that woman was intended to look like the anti-Martha, and where she came from was not an issue for them! 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

The showrunners are fairly on point with many details - for instance, there really was a KB theater on Route Seven in Falls Church, as Stan offered to take Henry to see Max Dugan Returns at the nearby KB a couple of weeks back. I trust they've done their research on this as well.   

[sistermagpie]

The showrunners are fairly on point with many details - for instance, there really was a KB theater on Route Seven in Falls Church, as Stan offered to take Henry to see Max Dugan Returns at the nearby KB a couple of weeks back. I trust they've done their research on this as well.

 

 

I think they're saying that the showrunners didn't cast her meaning to imply that Gaad looked at whatever pool he had and went for a beautiful woman--not because he wanted to ogle his secretary but because he currently feels that's safer.

 

So we're supposed to assume she came from the pool the FBI would choose from--someone with security clearance etc.--but what's more important is that Gaad's chosen someone who's superficially the anti-Martha.

[SlackerInc]

Why didn't Gabriel show up at the safe house in disguise? Now she knows what he looks like, too.

 

It's been driving me nuts that none of the recaps I've read, or comments at those recaps, raised this point.  Glad to finally see someone else said something about it.

 

This seemed like a huge oversight to me.  Everyone's shocked that Philip revealed himself, but while handlers don't normally wear disguises, that's because they don't normally interact with people who know they are spies!  Gabriel is an intermediary with "The Centre", so he should be even more careful IMO.  (And the way I remember it, he was not taken by surprise, either.)

 

I think they're saying that the showrunners didn't cast her meaning to imply that Gaad looked at whatever pool he had and went for a beautiful woman--not because he wanted to ogle his secretary but because he currently feels that's safer.

So we're supposed to assume she came from the pool the FBI would choose from--someone with security clearance etc.--but what's more important is that Gaad's chosen someone who's superficially the anti-Martha.

 

 

But wait, he didn't yet know anything was amiss with Martha when he brought that "sub" in, did he?

Edited April 24, 2016 by SlackerInc

[AllyB]

Here is my take on William, more clear in this episode -- he is burned out, totally jaded, and is still dealing with demands from the KGB to "produce" something.  Meanwhile, has to continue his cover job, which is much more strenuous than working at a travel agency, because he has to show up and work every day.  (Probably punch in, also, at a facility like that.) ................................................................... Maybe William had a true business marriage, not a marriage of affection? 

Yeah, all of your post is exactly what I see in William. It's just that I can't help but wonder if that's just how he wants to be seen and there is something else going on with him underneath all of that. Though Sister Magpie's point that if he were working with the American's P&E's cover would already be blown is a spot on. Arresting P&E would be a phenomenal coup for whoever could be running William as a double agent whereas attempting to get Philip on side would be risky and give little in return compared to the rewards for bringing in a pair of illegals.

Edited April 24, 2016 by AllyB

[wendyg]

I don't think Gabriel expected to meet Martha when he arrived at the house, and then the damage was done.

 

"Unprotected sex" didn't mean the same thing in 1983. At that time, the only thin you really worried about was pregnancy, and if you were on the pill then you didn't typically worry beyond that. (Anyway: they're *married*, or so Martha thinks.) I know Martha wanted a baby at one point, but I don't remember if we ever saw what kind of birth control they used. Pity Stan and Aderholt didn't find a diaphragm or a pack of birth control pills to settle this.

[curbcrusher]

About the conversation about Martha's attractiveness -- remember when Philip played her that false recording of the FBI agents discussing her looks in a derogatory manner?  He felt bad about that, but it turns out his fake recording was not that far from the actual conversation.

 

 

The conversation in this last episode about Martha's attractiveness was in a completely different context from the one Phillip doctored together. This conversation was an "investigational" conversation for lack of a better term. Stan was looking at Martha's file, and her life and activities. He  was looking for anomalies that would point to her being a possible spy. What about her life didn't fit? His question to Aderholt was more about, should we see a pattern of romantic relationships  or is this a red flag. They were going back to square one and examining Martha's life and trying to figure out if she showed any signs of being the person that planted the pen and made unauthorized copies. Remember, they have no ideal how long Martha's been bad. Part of Gaad's reaction is that he's probably been thinking the groups been spied on for the last 10 years.

[AllyB]

What struck me about Stan and Dennis' conversation about Martha was when they talked about her abortion. Dennis immediately mentions how dangerous that was but Stan needs to point out that she broke the law. Dennis was compassionate about her circumstance and almost admiring her for making the decision she felt was best for her even though it was dangerous. Stan cared mainly that her actions were illegal.

[sistermagpie]

But wait, he didn't yet know anything was amiss with Martha when he brought that "sub" in, did he?

 

 

I can't remember--maybe not. Iirc, we saw the replacement later in the show so that might have been somebody Gaad knew was going to be there for a while rather than someone they brought in immediately when Martha was sick. But regardless I think it still works as a meta joke even if it's not a thing within the show. You don't have a whole storyline about a secretary who may or may not be pretty enough to be married and then cast a conventionally attractive blonde without us noticing the contrast!

 

I don't think Gabriel expected to meet Martha when he arrived at the house, and then the damage was done.

 

 

Yes he did know she was there. That was the whole point of him coming over. He was shocked when Philip told him Martha had seen him, not shocked when Martha saw him.

 

(Anyway: they're *married*, or so Martha thinks.) I know Martha wanted a baby at one point, but I don't remember if we ever saw what kind of birth control they used. Pity Stan and Aderholt didn't find a diaphragm or a pack of birth control pills to settle this.

 

 

We know they used condoms--we saw Clark take one off after sex. Martha was quite possibly on the pill as well because they were not trying to have children. Philip may have insisted on two forms of birth control earlier on but was taking more of a chance here because of the situation.

 

What struck me about Stan and Dennis' conversation about Martha was when they talked about her abortion. Dennis immediately mentions how dangerous that was but Stan needs to point out that she broke the law. Dennis was compassionate about her circumstance and almost admiring her for making the decision she felt was best for her even though it was dangerous. Stan cared mainly that her actions were illegal.

 

 

To be fair, I think both their comments had a different meaning in that context. Adderholdt wasn't being compassionate and Stan wasn't being judgmental. (Or at least that wasn't all they were being.) They were relating that situation to the one with Clark. Martha once had an abortion despite the fact that it was dangerous and illegal. Thus she's not someone who would never do anything dangerous or illegal.

 

In fact, "dangerous and illegal" is Martha's middle name!

[Clanstarling]

"Unprotected sex" didn't mean the same thing in 1983. At that time, the only thin you really worried about was pregnancy, and if you were on the pill then you didn't typically worry beyond that. (Anyway: they're *married*, or so Martha thinks.) I know Martha wanted a baby at one point, but I don't remember if we ever saw what kind of birth control they used. Pity Stan and Aderholt didn't find a diaphragm or a pack of birth control pills to settle this.

Not entirely true. While the heterosexual risk for HIV wasn't known at the time, there were still STDs, and even one that antibiotics wouldn't take care of - herpes. Even though I was on the pill, I did not have unprotected sex for that reason. In a "how times have changed (or maybe not)" note, the gyno I went to did not want to prescribe the pill - but said I should use condoms, since I was a single woman and I suppose, theoretically, would only have sex occasionally. Me, I opted for solid, reliable, protection - both pills and condoms. And found a woman gyno.

But, as you said, Martha thinks they're married, so the condoms would go by the wayside once you were in a committed relationship.

Edited April 24, 2016 by clanstarling

[sistermagpie]

But, as you said, Martha thinks they're married, so the condoms would go by the wayside once you were in a committed relationship.

 

 

No, they were still using condoms after they got married.

Edited April 24, 2016 by sistermagpie

[skotnikov]

How is that a happy ending? For anyone? Martha's stranded in enemy territory, knows nothing of the language or culture, has no way to support herself, and has a child. 

 

Perestroika will begin quite soon, so as an American she can marry a future oligarch who'll make a lot of money and then come back to America!  That would be a happy ending indeed.

Edited April 24, 2016 by skotnikov

[jjj]

In the case of a little Clark, I believe the correct term would be "Clarkovich". (!) 

[magemaud]

 

 

QUOTE

And speaking of their disguises, aren't there times when they leave or return to the house in them and doesn't Stan notice?

They're never near the houses in them. They change in and out of disguise in other places and go out/come home as themselves.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still wondering, though, just WHERE they find to change into or out of their disguises. Ripping them off quickly is one thing, but I would think it must take a while to skillfully apply wigs, beards, etc. and can't imagine them pulling off the road to do so. 

[sistermagpie]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still wondering, though, just WHERE they find to change into or out of their disguises. Ripping them off quickly is one thing, but I would think it must take a while to skillfully apply wigs, beards, etc. and can't imagine them pulling off the road to do so.

 

 

At least once we saw Clark return to a safe house to change, and then there was that time this season where they were in a sort of garage with lockers. So I guess they have different places they plan for different changes?

 

How is that a happy ending? For anyone? Martha's stranded in enemy territory, knows nothing of the language or culture, has no way to support herself, and has a child.

 

 

This probably wouldn't really come up, but I assume if Martha went over there she'd be taken care of by the state. Which wouldn't make it a happy ending imo, but that seems to be the way it would work. It wouldn't help with any of the other things--they might give her Russian levels like they offered Gregory, but if she was miserable she probably wouldn't do that well with them.

[AllyB]

This probably wouldn't really come up, but I assume if Martha went over there she'd be taken care of by the state. Which wouldn't make it a happy ending imo, but that seems to be the way it would work.

It's probably the happiest outcome possible for her at this point. Her other options seem to be death or jail. Even if she makes it back to FBI counter-intelligence, works out a plan with Gaad and co to act as bait for Clark and as an outcome Philip is arrested, leading to the immediate arrest of Elizabeth as Stan would automatically know Philip. Martha would surely be facing at least a decade or two in prison as the best deal she could work out. If she'd gone to Gaad as soon as she knew that Clark wasn't internal affairs she'd have a good shot at short sentence, or even a suspended one. But she knowingly spied for someone she knew was an enemy, even after a co-worker, an FBI employee, was murdered for her benefit. Helping with the capture of a pair of deep cover Directorate S agents would probably help her avoid a life sentence but she'd still serve significant time. And I imagine a treason conviction gets you a hard time in prison.

At least in Russia she'd have some degree of freedom, somewhat better food, a home where she could close her door and be relatively alone (though probably bugged). She might even have a chance to meet a man and have a family. The worst part for her (other than losing Clark - which happens no matter what) would be loss of contact with her parents who she is very close to. But as we know, in less than a decade they would be able to visit her and it's not like they'd be having long intimate chats if she's in prison.  And her final option is a bullet in the head. Of all of those options, I'd be choosing Soviet Russia without hesitation.

Edited April 24, 2016 by AllyB

[AliShibaz]

(text omitted)

I have adored Martha from day one, so I do hate to see her demise.  Can she be saved at this point?  Well, I guess short of an actual Clarke showing up to admit that he's been having an affair with her and all of his facts checking out......nah, I guess that's not likely.

(text omitted)

 

Wouldn't that be amazing? Even if it were just for an April Fool's episode? Especially if this phoney Clarke would convince them all that he and Martha were really having an affair and he would sue the FBI if they ever revealed that info to anyone in such a way that his wife would sue him for damages.

 

Can you imagine the FBI writing him an apology letter? "We are so very sorry that we mistakenly intruded on your private life and we promise never to do that again.

The FBI does not usually "feel" anything but in this case, we truly do feel very, very sorry."

[rose711]

Doesn't Martha have family members nearby that are going to worry about her or look for her? I thought she had a sister.<br /><br />I kind of feel bad for everyone in this episode.

[sistermagpie]

Doesn't Martha have family members nearby that are going to worry about her or look for her? I thought she had a sister.

 

 

No sister, but she has parents. Parents who have met Clark.

[rose711]

Right. Thanks.<br /><br />Regarding William, he isn't going to do anything to endanger his wife back in Russia, so I doubt he's a double agent. I guessed he was upset depressed about creating biological weapons. Just a guess though.

[jjj]

No sister, but she has parents. Parents who have met Clark.

And "Jennifer"!  And Claudia -- who, if I recall correctly, did not have much of a disguise.  And you would think that the parents would have some of the wedding pictures that Clark keeps removing from Martha's apartment and Clark's apartment.  I'm sure "Jennifer" has a bouquet in front of her face if she was in any of the pictures. 

Regarding William, he isn't going to do anything to endanger his wife back in Russia, so I doubt he's a double agent.

I got the feeling the ship has sailed long ago on the fate of William's "wife"/partner, whether Nina's fate or some other life, but it has been clear that if he even was married to her, he and Gabriel do not consider him to be part of her life anymore.  If she is alive. 

[Umbelina]

Right. Thanks.<br /><br />Regarding William, he isn't going to do anything to endanger his wife back in Russia, so I doubt he's a double agent. I guessed he was upset depressed about creating biological weapons. Just a guess though.

Yeah, I think she's long gone too.  Dead or in some icy gulag digging up minerals from a hole in the ground.  If she were still alive and not imprisoned,  she could get word to William via Gabe, were she allowed, and wanted to.

[AliShibaz]

In browsing through this thread, I can't recall seeing anyone post anything about Alison Wright. I didn't read every post and so I could have missed it. I would guess someone must have already discussed the job she did playing Martha in this episode. But just in case no one has yet said so, I'd like to say she did an incredible job this episode. She truly just "knocked it out of the park". I don't know if she is eligible for any kind of award - maybe an Emmy or a Critic's Choice award? But I can't recall seeing any finer acting than she did during the last few scenes of this episode. She was truly amazing.

 

I watched the episode a second time and was just speechless looking at the job she did. I was absolutely riveted to the TV watching her play Martha.

 

"Trust you? I don't know you!. Get away from me or I'll scream. Then everyone will know what you are. You are a KGB!"

 

It's hard to tell if she said, "You are KGB!" or "You are a KGB!". But in either case, the way she delivered that line was one of the most memorable performances I think I've ever seen. Applause! Applause!

[jjj]

In browsing through this thread, I can't recall seeing anyone post anything about Alison Wright. I didn't read every post and so I could have missed it. I would guess someone must have already discussed the job she did playing Martha in this episode.

Yes, you missed it.

Such as:

 I think Alison Wright is doing some tremendous acting,

and:

We just had one hell of a Poor Martha episode and it was AWESOME!!!!!!    I cannot say enough good things about Alison Wright in this roll.  

-- in addition to your own earlier comments.

Edited April 25, 2016 by jjj

[Superpole2000]

This was excellent.

But my complaint is about the plausibility of some actions. Would Martha really have had sex in the safe house...especially once some unknown dude showed up? And would she really have been so docile and obedient while sitting on that couch? The fact that she left the house at the end was the most believable action, although I really don't get why they didn't lock her in or keep her under close surveillance somehow. She is a massive risk to them, and I can't imagine being so cavalier with her isolation.

I'm glad they had Martha leave simply because it opens more story possibilities than shipping her off to Russia would. We've been there before with Nina, and I thought that was a low point for the show.

[snarktini]

It's hard to judge what would be realistic for Martha. We all behave differently and this is a particularly extreme situation.

I buy her behavior. She's been cooperative because she is in shock, in love, and in denial.  Those are all incredibly powerful. And what have her options been? Once she realizes she's unwittingly become a traitor, the cognitive dissonance and guilt would overwhelm anyone. And she can't turn him in without turning herself in. She's only running now because she fears something has happened to Clark, and without him she's unsafe -- she asked, "What did you do to him?". The dam is finally breaking.

I can even buy her not making the KGB connection before, even though others here feel there's no way she shouldn't have put that together. When she asked I half-expected him to say he works for the Russian government, not KGB. (Yes the USSR is considered evil at this time, but KGB sounds much worse IMO. More explicit.) Yes, he's a spy, but is he a SPY-spy? Like what Paige wanted to know -- do you hurt people? That's what I see Martha wondering. Being an asset is different from being an agent, she's still hoping he's an asset or was coerced or isn't really "that bad". (Despite having the answer, she knows they killed Gene for her.)  She's been hoping for an outcome she can live with and her mind has gone full pretzel-logic to protect that.

It's been interesting to me to hear from other commenters their perception of America's fear of Soviet aggression at this time. (Generally as a proof point that Martha/Tim should know better.) Maybe I was just a little too young -- I'm a year or two younger than Henry -- but I don't recall being scared at all or hearing much about it in school or at home. It was there, but minor.

[sistermagpie]

Quote

 Would Martha really have had sex in the safe house...especially once some unknown dude showed up?

YMMV but I think she definitely would have done that. She's terrified and wants to feel like Clark's wife as much as possible there. It's the two of them against the world in her mind.

It reminds me of the wife of that pilot who was shot down over the USSR in the U2. He and his wife were even having marital problems but when they got a conjugal visit, even though he was filthy and even knowing guards were right outside? She was like oh yeah, we had sex.

[magemaud]

Quote

Would Martha really have had sex in the safe house...

actually it was more like UNSAFE sex in the SAFE house! 

[JasonCC]

My happy ending for Martha would be Hans marries her in order to get her a South African work visa. Set her up with an apartment and administrative job in Johannesburg or Cape Town or some other big city. At least the weather would be better than Moscow and it would be a lot easier to adjust as an English-speaker.

Edited April 28, 2016 by JasonCC