S04.E06: The Rat

[crgirl412]

I don't really see why Clark had to be revealed as fake.  Yes, Martha was cracking but revealing that you have worn a disguise for months and months doesn't spell "trust me more than ever" to any woman.  He had other options but that was the easiest one at the moment.  I also think they messed up by bringing Jennifer in at all and Gabriel not having a disguise on.

 

I felt bad for Elizabeth as she sees that Philip has deeper feelings and loyalties to Martha than she even thought.  Given that it took her 20 years and two kids to fall in love with her husband, she probably has no concept of developing deep feelings for an agent- Gregory was good sex and a person she could talk about the cause with- not an agent of hers.

 

Do we know why William's wife (forgot her name) was sent back?  Why didn't they get him another one, I wonder.    

[AliShibaz]

I don't really see why Clark had to be revealed as fake.  Yes, Martha was cracking but revealing that you have worn a disguise for months and months doesn't spell "trust me more than ever" to any woman.  He had other options but that was the easiest one at the moment.  I also think they messed up by bringing Jennifer in at all and Gabriel not having a disguise on.

(partial text omitted)

 

Good point. This has been nagging at me ever since I saw the episode. But I just didn't know what to say about it.

 

It was pretty ridiculous. How in the world does it make any sense to say, "I just didn't know what else to do ..."

 

And then follow up by getting naked or any other bizarre or idiotic thing to do. I just wish I had made that point. Well done!

Edited April 21, 2016 by AliShibaz

[sistermagpie]

Gabe has also been around long enough to know that he also must be damn careful here.  He could be in trouble with the KGB no matter what he does now, because of Philip.  He will try to cover his own ass, if he can.  He lost two valuable agents?  He could live his days out in the Gulag.  He fails to be honest about Philip's actions here and they find out?  Dead man walking.

 

 

Yeah, he’s probably not telling them everything about his arguments with Philip. Like when Elizabeth was sending them updates on Paige there was no reason for him to say that Philip was arguing with him. That doesn’t make him look good either. He doesn’t want them to think he’s lost control of Philip.

 

Spies are generally very careful about things like leaving notes around.  I know what you mean though.  This was a very quick op, he probably thought he'd be back before she woke.

 

 

Also it’s not like she wouldn’t have been able to imagine him being coerced into writing the note.

 

It was pretty ridiculous. How in the world does it make any sense to say, "I just didn't know what else to do ..."

 

And then follow up by getting naked or any other bizarre or idiotic thing to do. I just wish I had made that point. Well done!

 

 

I don't see what's bizarre there. Martha already knew Clark was a fake. He wasn’t the person he said he was. He was working for some foreign entity against the US. Martha was freaking out about it. She didn’t believe that the level of love he had for her was enough to sustain her.

 

So Philip made a dramatic gesture of trust to her by showing her he was in disguise. That’s him telling her that he’s going against what “they” want him to do. He’s supposed to wear a disguise but he’s showing her—Martha—his real face. And it worked just the way he hoped it would. She believed he loved her enough to take a risk for her so she took a risk for him. Having sex with her then wouldn't have worked.

 

So it did make sense when he said that to Elizabeth. Martha was about to walk out, so Philip thought of the only thing he could do to make her stick with him—and he was right. The other options he had involved killing her or something. This way she stayed an agent. Naturally under these circumstances Martha would then want to have sex with him and of course he would do it.

[RedheadZombie]

I actually thought Gabriel might be sending Phillip away so that he could kill Martha himself.

Me too! I thought Phillip would come back and find her dead. And then he would blame himself for taking her gun and leaving her with her killer. I was way off.

[Moose135]

Do we know why William's wife (forgot her name) was sent back?  Why didn't they get him another one, I wonder.    

 

I don't remember any specific reason being given, just William saying she had been sent back. I don't see how they could have gotten him another one, unless it was a single female agent already living as an illegal, and they "happen to meet and fall in love", otherwise it would be a tough cover story to come up with.  It's not like one season there's a new actor playing Darren on Bewitched.

[topanga]

I don't really see why Clark had to be revealed as fake.  Yes, Martha was cracking but revealing that you have worn a disguise for months and months doesn't spell "trust me more than ever" to any woman.  He had other options but that was the easiest one at the moment.  I also think they messed up by bringing Jennifer in at all and Gabriel not having a disguise on.

 

I felt bad for Elizabeth as she sees that Philip has deeper feelings and loyalties to Martha than she even thought.  Given that it took her 20 years and two kids to fall in love with her husband, she probably has no concept of developing deep feelings for an agent- Gregory was good sex and a person she could talk about the cause with- not an agent of hers.

 

Do we know why William's wife (forgot her name) was sent back?  Why didn't they get him another one, I wonder.    

Do we know that Gregory was good in bed? I mean, I'm sure he was. He was Derek Luke! Plus , Derek Luke and Keri Russell had amazing chemistry. So, yeah, you're probably right. I just wonder if anyone ever said it. 

 

And I can't figure out if Martha really thinks she and "Clark" have a legal marriage and can run away together or if she's just in denial. 

[shura]

William isn't going to be working marks and collecting intel by having sex with people, because he would be terrible at that.

 

See, there's yet another fantastic spinoff idea! A dark-ish comedy maybe? I am starting to suspect I would watch anything involving William.

 

However, in order for me to make a good argument, I really should be able to offer you some kind of explanation as to what was going on with that phone call. Why would they show us that? For that,  I just have no explanation.

 

I think this is to show us that these characters don't just materialize when called for a scene, but rather they live their lives and we happen to look in on them in the process. Here we have Oleg continuing with what happened before, with both his family story and Tatiana's friendship, all very organic since we know the context. I'd be really baffled if the show expected me to be impressed with Oleg's father's defection. He is just such a tertiary character.

 

Also it’s not like she wouldn’t have been able to imagine him being coerced into writing the note.

 

You are not seriously arguing that leaving a note that might or might not be misinterpreted would be worse than simply disappearing and leaving Martha absolutely alone without any word from the only person she can relate to here, are you? That's like comparing a glass half-empty with no glass at all.

[Dev F]

So Philip made a dramatic gesture of trust to her by showing her he was in disguise. That’s him telling her that he’s going against what “they” want him to do. He’s supposed to wear a disguise but he’s showing her—Martha—his real face. And it worked just the way he hoped it would. She believed he loved her enough to take a risk for her so she took a risk for him. Having sex with her then wouldn't have worked.

 

Yep. Plus that whole episode was about how far people will go to maintain the status quo by pretending everything is normal while the world is going to shit all around them. (Hence the title "I Am Abassin Zadran," after the speech the mujahid gives about murdering Soviets in Afghanistan, which the Jenningses have to act like they're cool with since they're pretending to be CIA agents.) And Martha's storyline is the counterpoint, since she's the one who's not willing to pretend that everything's fine, so Philip finally does the one thing that destroys the status quo once and for all.

 

At the time I thought it meant that Philip was about to kill her, but in retrospect he clearly admired her for refusing to act like everything was fine when it clearly wasn't, and wanted to release her from the misery he himself always has to swallow. ("I feel like shit all the time.") That's a lot of what Philip's arc this season has been about, in fact: his interest in the radical truth-tellers of EST; his childhood backstory about hating to feel weak and endangered so much that he beat his pain to death with a brick instead of stolidly enduring it; his new ability to "feel" that something is wrong when all logic says everything's copacetic.

 

And it's what motivated him in this episode in particular: Elizabeth and Gabriel are telling him, "Don't worry so much about Martha; there's a good chance that everything is still fine." But Philip doesn't want to keep acting like everything is fine; he wants to rip his wig off and run screaming into the night.

[sistermagpie]

Do we know that Gregory was good in bed? I mean, I'm sure he was. He was Derek Luke! Plus , Derek Luke and Keri Russell had amazing chemistry. So, yeah, you're probably right. I just wonder if anyone ever said it.

 

I think she said he was passionate about the cause and about her...so I'd take that to mean she liked it...?

 

I would disagree that he wasn't an agent of hers, though. He was totally her agent. That was their relationship. He was more independent and respected than Martha, but he was her first recruit.

 

And I can't figure out if Martha really thinks she and "Clark" have a legal marriage and can run away together or if she's just in denial.

 

 

I don't know about the legality issue but she's got good reason to think they could run away together, right?

 

You are not seriously arguing that leaving a note that might or might not be misinterpreted would be worse than simply disappearing and leaving Martha absolutely alone without any word from the only person she can relate to here, are you? That's like comparing a glass half-empty with no glass at all.

 

Not at all! I was saying that a note wouldn't necessarily have made Martha feel better about being alone than Gabriel, the person Clark said was a friend, telling her he'll be back soon. Still wouldn't have hurt to try it.

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by sistermagpie

[AMDG]

One thought regarding Oleg's father. It is my sense that he either supported or did not try to stop Nina's execution.

He was very concerned about the impact that she might have on Oleg's career.

[Darren]

 

I think she said he was passionate about the cause and about her...so I'd take that to mean she liked it...?

 

I would disagree that he wasn't an agent of hers, though. He was totally her agent. That was their relationship. He was more independent and respected than Martha, but he was her first recruit.

 

 

I don't know about the legality issue but she's got good reason to think they could run away together, right?

 

Not at all! I was saying that a note wouldn't necessarily have made Martha feel better about being alone than Gabriel, the person Clark said was a friend, telling her he'll be back soon. Still wouldn't have hurt to try it.

 

 

Do we know that Gregory was good in bed? I mean, I'm sure he was. He was Derek Luke! Plus , Derek Luke and Keri Russell had amazing chemistry. So, yeah, you're probably right. I just wonder if anyone ever said it. 

 

And I can't figure out if Martha really thinks she and "Clark" have a legal marriage and can run away together or if she's just in denial. 

Actually, I didn't think they had amazing chemistry. I thought that whole situation felt contrived. They were both committed people. But that's as far as the connection went in my eyes. I didn't buy that relationship at all.

[RedheadZombie]

Something I wonder about but always forget to ask - doesn't the Jennings travel agency have a Russian employee? I see him once in a while and he seems to have an obvious accent. It seems like a risky move when you're in deep under cover while the Cold War is raging. It doesn't seem far fetched that the paranoia at the time would have led to Russians living in the DC area being monitored. Am I completely making this up?

[Moose135]

There is an employee with an accent, but I haven't been able to place it - it seems vaguely Eastern European to me, I don't know that I'd call it Russian, but I'm really not sure.

[Couch Sweet Potato]

Maybe I just can't relate because I've never found out that my husband was a KGB spy, but I imagine that my reaction wouldn't be "let's have unprotected sex while the old guy in the room next to us listens."

 

Ahem. I've never been in the KGB either, but I have totally been in the same situation.

 

Cops in the other room. They are waiting for ... something ... who knows what. We had the noisiest unprotected sex ever, just to get the message across.

 

It happens. 

[Darren]

Something I wonder about but always forget to ask - doesn't the Jennings travel agency have a Russian employee? I see him once in a while and he seems to have an obvious accent. It seems like a risky move when you're in deep under cover while the Cold War is raging. It doesn't seem far fetched that the paranoia at the time would have led to Russians living in the DC area being monitored. Am I completely making this up?

I know who you mean. But I think he's Greek or something. Not Russian, and probably not Eastern-bloc - for the very reasons you suggest.

[Hecate7]

On this show, the KGB prefers it's embedded agents to be married, who knows why?  Oh, and William isn't "doing well" alone, he hasn't brought them one single valuable thing in 25 years.

 

Probably because it's more "normal" and there is less chance of an agent falling in love with an American, which could cause all kinds of problems, less being "fixed up" by well meaning neighbors or acquaintances, more built in excuses to be out and about or not available.  Again, we need to see this from the Moscow KGB's position and framework.  Why not team them up?  It's a job.  Do it.  Don't bother me with your petty little romantic bullshit crap.

 

It's not going to happen, but I can see how logically it will probably be presented.  Philip gone.  Probably "killed" in a car accident.  Back to Moscow to face the music.  Elizabeth knowing the same bullet could be hitting her head any minute, not about to step out of line.  She stays single a while, eventually begins to date William who she meets in any number of ways, but probably in public.  Paige is suspicious of course, but several options there as well, scare her, her mom's life is on the line too now, lie to her and say dad really did die and Elizabeth likes William and it's part of her job, whatever.  Moscow isn't going to care about petty details like that.  DO IT.

 

 

OR they pair her up to be another honeypot for Stan.

[Clanstarling]

Now we all know, because this is a TV show, we aren't going to lose our lead actor.  I think the threat of losing him will be part of the story here though, and it should be.  I have no idea how this show will eventually end, but today it occurred to me that it could end with Elizabeth in William's shoes here.  Still spying, but with Philip gone, probably dead, never to be heard from again.

On the other hand, maybe the point Nina's sojourn in Russia was to prepare us for a split narrative with Phillip. Not that I really believe that, just tossing it out there.

  

I don't really see why Clark had to be revealed as fake.  Yes, Martha was cracking but revealing that you have worn a disguise for months and months doesn't spell "trust me more than ever" to any woman.  He had other options but that was the easiest one at the moment.  I also think they messed up by bringing Jennifer in at all and Gabriel not having a disguise on.

 

I felt bad for Elizabeth as she sees that Philip has deeper feelings and loyalties to Martha than she even thought.  Given that it took her 20 years and two kids to fall in love with her husband, she probably has no concept of developing deep feelings for an agent- Gregory was good sex and a person she could talk about the cause with- not an agent of hers.

To me, Phillip's reveal wasn't saying "trust me" to Martha, but saying "I trust you with my true identity. I'm letting you see me without artiface." Which would give her some sense of power over him.

I also can see Elizabeth seeing that reveal as his biggest betrayal. Sex was something they were trained to use, affection for your agents comes with the territory. But until then, he was only intimate in disguise. Undisguised intimacy was something he'd only shared with Elizabeth - the one truly private thing they had - and had been a struggle to achieve.

As for Martha and sex - sex is a comfort. I have no problem seeing it as her go to when she's frightened and her world has just irrevocably changed. She's clinging to the one "true" thing she knows. I was kind of surprised Gabriel was still there, having thought Phillip dismissed both him and Elizabeth. Maybe she didn't know. Or maybe she didn't care. Who hasn't had neighbors or roommates who didn't keep it to themselves?

Edited April 22, 2016 by clanstarling

[RedheadZombie]

Am I the only one who doesn't believe they would have sent Martha to Russia?  I was thinking back to the woman with the baby.   They killed her and made it look like an OD, then gave her baby to its dead father's family.  I know we saw them discussing it at the Residentura, but I'm not buying it.  In the KGB's eyes, Martha is a threat because Phillip has shown true concern for her, and (in theory) can be lured into abandoning Elizabeth and running away.  I think they would have let Phillip believe she's alive and well in Russia, kill her, then tell Phillip who could never attempt to communicate with her for safety reasons.

[AliShibaz]

I don't really see why Clark had to be revealed as fake.  Yes, Martha was cracking but ...

 

(text omitted)

 

Just a thought, but if you thought Martha was cracking at that time, just wait until she finds out that she will never be seeing Clark again.

 

I would guess that if that happens, we will be in store for the Mother of all cracks. My guess is that Alison Wright is fully capable of delivering a knock out performance as a woman who loses her mind in the space of about ten seconds. It will be very interesting to see if Phillip will let her hold on to her gun while she learns that truth. If so, it could become one of the most memorable scenes from the entire show.

 

I never really appreciated Alison Wright. But as of late, she has displayed some amazing ... superb ... acting skills. I'm hoping we may well see her hit the ball right out of the park when Martha learns that she and Clark have to split up forever. If I was the show runner, I'd see this as one of the biggest opportunities of my career to produce some fabulous TV.

 

I'm so excited!

[sistermagpie]

Am I the only one who doesn't believe they would have sent Martha to Russia?  I was thinking back to the woman with the baby.   They killed her and made it look like an OD, then gave her baby to its dead father's family.  I know we saw them discussing it at the Residentura, but I'm not buying it.  In the KGB's eyes, Martha is a threat because Phillip has shown true concern for her, and (in theory) can be lured into abandoning Elizabeth and running away.  I think they would have let Phillip believe she's alive and well in Russia, kill her, then tell Phillip who could never attempt to communicate with her for safety reasons.

 

 

The woman they killed was a civilian who was married to an Illegal without knowing it. Martha is an agent for the KGB. She actually has earned a ticket to the USSR. They can't just kill somebody who's been providing them intel and has now been burned because her handler showed some concern for her without abandoning Elizabeth or running away. It's perfectly normal for handlers to have true concern for their sources. Just as Claudia and Gabriel have true concern for their agents.

 

Of course they totally could tell him they were sending her to Russia or Cuba and just kill her, absolutely. But the fact that we saw them discussing the real deal at the Rezidentura does tell us they're planning to do it. That's possibly the only reason that scene is in there, to set up everyone looking for her next week. The FBI would be looking to catch her, the KGB potentially to kill her, but if Clark finds her there's this third option of her getting to safety. A fantasy option, I think, because ultimately Martha's not going to want to go without Clark and shipping her off on her own might as well be killing her. But ultimately this story is more about Philip than Martha. It's his hope that's maybe being strung out here and that he will eventually have to let go of just as Martha does.

[scartact]

I also can see Elizabeth seeing that reveal as his biggest betrayal. Sex was something they were trained to use, affection for your agents comes with the territory. But until then, he was only intimate in disguise. Undisguised intimacy was something he'd only shared with Elizabeth - the one truly private thing they had - and had been a struggle to achieve.

Lately, I've been thinking a lot about whether or not Philip could transgress to a point of no return, both for the KGB and for Elizabeth. By telling Martha he works for the KGB and giving her nearly the last piece of the puzzle, I do wonder about the additional fallout of that. I can't even say if for Elizabeth the bigger betrayal will be that he showed Martha his true face or that she now knows the true nature of his (and Elizabeth's) work.

Though, it should also be noted he still hasn't given Martha his "true" name (the idea of true name as identity is a little tricky here too, since "Philip" is still technically an alias) nor has he revealed his marriage and family to her yet (if he ever will). I can buy that revealing this would absolutely be the last thing he would want to do, which is definitely consistent with Philip ultimately being loyal to his family above all else, even to his country (which in the past has obviously been the greatest source of tension between Elizabeth and Philip).

[Milburn Stone]

Loved the episode.

 

OK, trust me, I have zero doubt that the answer was contained in this or the last episode, but how do Stan and Aderholt even know the name "Clark Westerfeld"? Martha didn't say the name to Aderholt over dinner, did she? Did they get it from the landlord? But how would he know?

 

I'm sure someone here can make this one thing that's bugging me go away.

[Clanstarling]

I believe they asked Clark's landlord. Someone previously had asked how they knew where Clark's apartment was. IIRC they followed Martha to the apartment.

[Moose135]

I know who you mean. But I think he's Greek or something. Not Russian, and probably not Eastern-bloc - for the very reasons you suggest.

 

Thinking about it, you may be right, that could be a Greek accent.

 

 

The woman they killed was a civilian who was married to an Illegal without knowing it. Martha is an agent for the KGB. She actually has earned a ticket to the USSR. They can't just kill somebody who's been providing them intel and has now been burned because her handler showed some concern for her without abandoning Elizabeth or running away.

 

If nothing else, I imagine they would want to bring her to the USSR so they can spend some time "interviewing" her to learn more about the workings of the FBI and the Counterintelligence Unit, beyond what she has passed to Phillip already.

[Milburn Stone]

I believe they asked Clark's landlord. Someone previously had asked how they knew where Clark's apartment was. IIRC they followed Martha to the apartment.

 

Thanks, clanstarling. Obviously I was confused, because I thought the landlord they were speaking with was Martha's landlord. I'm aware (or think I am) that they spoke with Martha's landlady at Martha's apartment, but I assumed the land-dude who appeared later was the landlady's husband and they were still at Martha's. I must have blinked for a second. :)

 

Re the travel agency employee, I'm going to say he's Russian, because the delicious irony of his being Russian appeals to me and seems to me like something the show would do. Here is a Russian immigrant who is openly who he is, who fled his country because he hated it and loves America, and unknowingly he's working for two fellow-countrymen who conceal their Russianness (successfully, even from him) and who couldn't be more at odds with his beliefs.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Dev F]

OK, trust me, I have zero doubt that the answer was contained in this or the last episode, but how do Stan and Aderholt even know the name "Clark Westerfeld"? Martha didn't say the name to Aderholt over dinner, did she? Did they get it from the landlord? But how would he know?

 

Because that's the name under which Philip rented the apartment and signed the lease.

 

Edited to add: Whoops, too late!

Edited April 22, 2016 by Dev F

[sistermagpie]

I can't even say if for Elizabeth the bigger betrayal will be that he showed Martha his true face or that she now knows the true nature of his (and Elizabeth's) work.

 

 

 

Like Elizabeth did with Gregory and Philip did with Charles and Kate did with Jared? She's not the first person to know the nature of their work. Hell, at this point Pastor Tim knows they're KGB.

 

Of course Martha isn't like those other three--she was being duped instead of actually recruited, but at this point she pretty much knows the true nature of their work. She hadn't let him say it out loud yet, but if she'd asked him more about who he actually worked for way back when he first had to confess to her he would have told her more. He still probably would have avoided saying KGB as long as he could because they all seem to get that it's like saying Voldemort, but it would have been implied. She knows he's a guy who murders people to keep the operation going--that's saying a lot about the nature of the work.

 

Martha works at the FBI where the big news is that Gene committed suicide for being the mole. I don't think anybody has hesitated to talk about how they assume he was a mole for the KGB.

[Domestic Assassin]

 

Darren, on 21 Apr 2016 - 9:45 PM, said:

 

I know who you mean. But I think he's Greek or something. Not Russian, and probably not Eastern-bloc - for the very reasons you suggest.

 

 

Thinking about it, you may be right, that could be a Greek accent.

 

 

I think his name is Stavos, which sounds like Greek to me but I'm not sure.

[Inquisitionist]

I believe they asked Clark's landlord. Someone previously had asked how they knew where Clark's apartment was. IIRC they followed Martha to the apartment.

They could follow Martha to the apartment building, but not the specific unit.  That was a large building and could have had multiple units rented by single men around age 40.  Perhaps the landlord saw Martha visit Clark and the FBI showed him a photo, but she was only there a few times that I can recall, and a landlord usually isn't in a position to view the comings and goings of tenants' visitors.  It still seems a bit convenient that Stan and Aderholt were able to get into Clark's place so easily.

[CarpeDiem54]

Delurking for a moment. I'm currently binge watching the first three seasons since there was a lot I had forgotten.

In season 1, Phillip called his employee Stavros, so I believe he's Greek.

One comment about this episode; I found it odd that in the 1980's (the time that almost all women wore panyhose under dresses) that Martha apparently goes commando, evidenced by her lifting her dress when she straddled Clark in the bedroom.

I just love reading everyone's commentary here.

[Clanstarling]

One comment about this episode; I found it odd that in the 1980's (the time that almost all women wore panyhose under dresses) that Martha apparently goes commando, evidenced by her lifting her dress when she straddled Clark in the bedroom.

Well, Martha has always been full of surprises in the sex department. LOL. But yes, especially since they went to the trouble of showing Phillip being awkward when unbuckling and unzipping, it did seem a bit odd.

[Umbelina]

They could follow Martha to the apartment building, but not the specific unit.  That was a large building and could have had multiple units rented by single men around age 40.  Perhaps the landlord saw Martha visit Clark and the FBI showed him a photo, but she was only there a few times that I can recall, and a landlord usually isn't in a position to view the comings and goings of tenants' visitors.  It still seems a bit convenient that Stan and Aderholt were able to get into Clark's place so easily.

Landlords or Supers know the people in their apartments.  They would have a photo of Martha, and they were looking for an apartment where the tenants weren't often home.

Honestly, if two FBI trained special agents couldn't find the apartment they needed in a large building, the secret service might as well hang it up.

 

Delurking for a moment. I'm currently binge watching the first three seasons since there was a lot I had forgotten.

In season 1, Phillip called his employee Stavros, so I believe he's Greek.

One comment about this episode; I found it odd that in the 1980's (the time that almost all women wore panyhose under dresses) that Martha apparently goes commando, evidenced by her lifting her dress when she straddled Clark in the bedroom.

I just love reading everyone's commentary here.

Good point.  We can fan wank that she's been there a while and took them off I guess.  Ha.

[curbcrusher]

They could follow Martha to the apartment building, but not the specific unit.  That was a large building and could have had multiple units rented by single men around age 40.  Perhaps the landlord saw Martha visit Clark and the FBI showed him a photo, but she was only there a few times that I can recall, and a landlord usually isn't in a position to view the comings and goings of tenants' visitors.  It still seems a bit convenient that Stan and Aderholt were able to get into Clark's place so easily.

 

I believe they explained this with a piece of dialog between Stan and Aderhal on the way to Clark's apartment by saying of the x units there was only 1 that was rented by an out of town man that showed up occasionally on business or some such.

 

I don't see what's bizarre there. Martha already knew Clark was a fake. He wasn’t the person he said he was. He was working for some foreign entity against the US. Martha was freaking out about it.

 

 

Martha knew Clark was fake, but she didn't know it was a foreign entity he worked for did she? I was thinking that she was probably figuring it was some sort of corporate espionage situation, or even a different agency (CIA?) checking up on the FBI.

 

My conclusion has to be there is precious little that could develop from such an event. Suppose Oleg were to arrange somehow (prob with Stan's help) for his father to come to the USA, how much could the USA benefit from a Minsiter of Transportation? If he were in charge of weapons or the army or navy or airforce or anything to do with intelligence, then ... maybe.

But, it seems to me the USA has little to gain from the USSR's system of transportation. It's way behind the USA's system. The fact that he was unable to do anything to help Oleg save Nina is a strong clue as to his value to the USSR. His value would seem to be very little. I doubt he would have much value.

 

 

Considering that there was a rather common view in the mid-80s that the next war would take place in Western Europe as the Soviet Armor rolled across the East/West German border the transportation system in the Soviet territories would have been of utmost interest to western battle planners. The efficient movement of men, material and arms is critical to that kind of warfare, and the transport minister would have been a key player. I don't think the story is going towards Oleg's dad defecting, but the guy would be valuable.

[sistermagpie]

Martha knew Clark was fake, but she didn't know it was a foreign entity he worked for did she? I was thinking that she was probably figuring it was some sort of corporate espionage situation, or even a different agency (CIA?) checking up on the FBI.

 

 

Foreign meaning not part of the US government, at least. She works in counter-espionage so espionage is the most obvious choice. She knew he wasn't CIA or a government agency at that point because that was his cover story that was a lie. She knew he was some sort of outside enemy who'd used her to spy on the FBI rather than Clark Westerfield, government watchdog like he'd first said. So she knew he was a fake--and a dangerous fake. One that would land her in prison.

[AliShibaz]

Foreign meaning not part of the US government, at least. She works in counter-espionage so espionage is the most obvious choice. She knew he wasn't CIA or a government agency at that point because that was his cover story that was a lie. She knew he was some sort of outside enemy who'd used her to spy on the FBI rather than Clark Westerfield, government watchdog like he'd first said. So she knew he was a fake--and a dangerous fake. One that would land her in prison.

 

It always gnawed at me that Martha would accept that Clark was not who he said he was but never pushed him into telling her any of the details. She never asked him who he worked for. She never asked him to tell her where the info was going or what it was being used for. It could have been used for almost anything - including doing great harm to her country. A huge tragedy in the making. At the very least, it seems to me, that she would really need to know more. Why didn't she press Clark for the details?

 

If there was ever any kind of internal investigation in the FBI office (which, of course, there was), Martha would have been able to protect herself far better if she knew where the info went.

 

Don't you think?

 

I never understood why she would be willing to just leave things as they were. Was it some kind of bizarre psychological game? One of the FBI agents (either Aderholt or Beeman) summed up her psychological state and seemed to me to be eerily correct. She lived her entire life desperately seeking love and when she thought she had found it (even if it wasn't honest and even if she knew it wasn't honest), she was willing to live a lie rather than risk losing that love.

 

It just seems so dangerous and her thinking seems so flawed and so tragic. I just never understood. Martha has now painted herself into this corner and it just doesn't seem like she has any reasonable escape. My guess is that when she realizes that she must accept the fact that she will never see Clark again, the only answer for her will be suicide. So tragic.So very tragic!

 

Some people make fun of Martha. They even refer to some of the episodes as "Poor Martha" episodes. Heartless? Well, yes. But it also seems accurate to me.

 

Thing is, I know some people who have behaved like Martha and I bet you do too. Don't you?

[withanaich]

That scene with Stan and Aderholt discussing Martha's life was cringe-worthy. Oh, she's lonely? She hasn't had much of a romantic life? Whether it's true or not, how the hell would you know, STAN? You didn't know she was dating a KGB agent in disguise, or that he's YOUR DAMN NEIGHBOR. But then, Stan has always been condescending and shitty when it comes to Martha. Shut up, Stan. And Aderholt wasn't much better, with his grudging admission that there's "something sexy" about Martha. He can shut up too.

 

The sad reflection of the P&E sex last week was just so pathetic. There was some KGB sex training coming in handy there.

 

Hahaha! That’s what I said to my husband. “But how is he…?”

“Training.”

 

Does the KGB not have a wider pool of spies to pick out from that they absolutely had to ask Phil & Liz to do a Glanders Pickup pt. 2?

That's what I wondered too. It seemed contrived, to the point where I wondered if Gabriel wasn't trying to get Philip out of the house so he could kill Martha. But I guess not. It's very odd that there were NO other agents available. Did they really need both Elizabeth and Hans to act as lookouts? Also, it seems a bit odd to transport the biohazard you're not supposed to have in your possession in a glass jar marked BIOHAZARD. The Glanders was in a little innocuous metal tin.

 

One thought regarding Oleg's father. It is my sense that he either supported or did not try to stop Nina's execution.

 

I got that feeling too, but that could very well just be the way Oleg sees it. I have to wonder if they might be setting him up to defect, or at least consider it. In his eyes, his father is powerful, but refuses to use that power to help people (he couldn't save Oleg's brother or Nina), so what good is it?

[Milburn Stone]

Re whether Oleg's dad tried hard to save Nina, I think he didn't, but not because he didn't care. My sense is that, powerful as he is--and he is powerful--he realizes he's not so powerful as to be able to take the side of a judged traitor and not raise suspicions about himself or his son. Especially because he came up in the party under Stalin, when you could be loyal as the day is long and still be shot in the head for the merest suspicion of disloyalty (or if it served the party's or Stalin's purposes).

Edited April 24, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[sistermagpie]

It always gnawed at me that Martha would accept that Clark was not who he said he was but never pushed him into telling her any of the details. She never asked him who he worked for. She never asked him to tell her where the info was going or what it was being used for. It could have been used for almost anything - including doing great harm to her country. A huge tragedy in the making. At the very least, it seems to me, that she would really need to know more. Why didn't she press Clark for the details?

 

 

I think Martha was going on the exact opposite line of thought. Clark asked her if she wanted to know more when she discovered he was lying and she said no. She not only didn't ask for more info, she didn't want to know. Especially she didn't want to know who he worked for until this week she finally asked. And even then I think she was hoping that whatever he said would be anything but the KGB. In her mind she maybe felt more innocent and better able to cover up for herself if she really didn't know.

 

Heh. It's making me think of one of my favorite movies, Quiz Show, where Charles VanDoren asks if she can look up the answers to the quiz show questions rather than have them given to him as if that would make him less of a cheater when he knows them in advance.

 

Was it some kind of bizarre psychological game? One of the FBI agents (either Aderholt or Beeman) summed up her psychological state and seemed to me to be eerily correct. She lived her entire life desperately seeking love and when she thought she had found it (even if it wasn't honest and even if she knew it wasn't honest), she was willing to live a lie rather than risk losing that love.

 

 

Oh, totally. And then when she finally snaps it's basically for the same reason. Clark is gone and without Clark there's no reason for her to stay there. Now she's an avenging angel against the KGB!

 

Re whether Oleg's dad tried hard to save Nina, I think he didn't, but I don't think it was because he didn't care. My sense is that, powerful as he is--and he is powerful--he realizes he's not so powerful as to be able to take the side of a judged traitor and not pay the consequences himself. Especially because he came up in the party under Stalin, when you could be as loyal as loyal could be and still be shot in the head for the mere suspicion of disloyalty (or if it served the party's or Stalin's convenience).

 

 

Yeah, I agree. Sticking his head up over this wouldn't be worth it, probably. I mean, it's not like Nina was innocent or had committed some really petty crime so a good word from a powerful guy would change things. If Martha was in prison in the US a good word from the Secretary of Finance probably wouldn't help her much either. 

 

It is interesting, though, that it brings up that whole conflict for Oleg again of bribery and connections vs. justice or hard work.

[Totale]

Loved the episode.

 

OK, trust me, I have zero doubt that the answer was contained in this or the last episode, but how do Stan and Aderholt even know the name "Clark Westerfeld"? Martha didn't say the name to Aderholt over dinner, did she? Did they get it from the landlord? But how would he know?

 

I'm sure someone here can make this one thing that's bugging me go away.

 

He used to have an answering machine (the one that the tape is now gone from).  She called it again and again in the episode she went out with Aderholt. They could have worked it from her phone records at any time. Knowing the building address may have been a help but wasn't necessary.

[Mrs peel]

Martha knew Clark was fake, but she didn't know it was a foreign entity he worked for did she? I was thinking that she was probably figuring it was some sort of corporate espionage situation, or even a different agency (CIA?) checking up on the FBI.

Martha was originally told Clark worked for internal affairs, investigating a leak from her department.  I doubt she'd now believe he was CIA.  But I wondered why Clark didn't say he worked for a sympathetic government, say the Israelis.  Sure, we don't like Israel spying on us, but it's not like the USSR.  And Philip had that asset, the Swedish-American wife of the DOD official, and he claimed to be working for Swedish intelligence.  I always thought Martha stayed with Clark after learning of the first lie because she really loved him, and couldn't/wouldn't believe he was working for the "bad guys."

 

Now?  All bets are off for her.  As others have said, once she realizes there's no future with Clark, she won't go quietly anywhere.  I can't imagine her in Moscow.  By the end of the episode, I started to think that, unless Martha does get back to the FBI, her end is Phillip quietly killing her.  I can even imagine her asking Phillip to kill her, because her life is over.

 

I do love that everyone here talks about the big picture of how the writers are sculpting the season (something I don't tend to do).  If we're talking about things coming out into the open, I think of Oleg's father, doing the military firing salute at his son's graveside - something that he already said was not allowed.  We're only a few years away from Gorbachev, perestroika, and glasnost.

[Concrtslt]

My happy ending is they get Martha out somehow, her last scene in the show is some apartment in Moscow where she's taking care of her new baby boy, "Clark's" baby. They did presumably have unprotected sex in the safe house.....

[AllyB]

This is going to seem really left of field but I found it extremely odd that in the middle of a tense hand off of a dangerous bio-hazard with no definite assurances that he wasn't being tailed by the FBI, William stopped for a chat about Philip's agent. Then continued on to tell him about his wife being sent back. I'm now a bit suspicious that the diseased corpse might not be the only rat in the episode. I wonder if William has been compromised and is a double agent, working with another American intelligence division, and sees Philip as someone who could also be brought on as an asset.

It's probably just me being paranoid but it would explain the ineffectiveness of Glanders. Maybe he gave the Soviets something deadly enough to seem like a genuine effort on his part, but relatively easy to cure and not particularly contagious, so not a major threat to NATO regions. And maybe his conversations with Philip are less him bonding with someone who feels a lot like him, and more him learning if and how he can work him. In fact knowing how Philip feels about his wife, telling him that the Centre took his wife Eliza (- oddly enough a diminutive of Elizabeth) away seems possibly a bit too convenient and potentially very manipulative.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

This is going to seem really left of field but I found it extremely odd that in the middle of a tense hand off of a dangerous bio-hazard with no definite assurances that he wasn't being tailed by the FBI, William stopped for a chat about Philip's agent. Then continued on to tell him about his wife being sent back. I'm now a bit suspicious that the diseased corpse might not be the only rat in the episode. I wonder if William has been compromised and is a double agent, working with another American intelligence division, and sees Philip as someone who could also be brought on as an asset.

It's probably just me being paranoid but it would explain the ineffectiveness of Glanders. Maybe he gave the Soviets something deadly enough to seem like a genuine effort on his part, but relatively easy to cure and not particularly contagious, so not a major threat to NATO regions. And maybe his conversations with Philip are less him bonding with someone who feels a lot like him, and more him learning if and how he can work him. In fact knowing how Philip feels about his wife, telling him that the Centre took his wife Eliza (- oddly enough a diminutive of Elizabeth) away seems possibly a bit too convenient and potentially very manipulative.

 

AllyB, I agree. In the episode when they were holed up with William and Gabriel, the questions William was asking Phillip about the family - especially the kids - seemed particularly probing beyond mere small talk. I thought at the time, "I don't think I'd give up so many real personal details to this guy" - because that very well could be a bread trail for law enforcement if William turns (assuming he has not already). The more William goes out of his way to get personally identifying details about Phillip and Elizabeth's history and family unit, the more I suspect it will come up again further down the road... Along with Henry's (Chekhov's) computer. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by CaliCheeseSucks

[crgirl412]

This is going to seem really left of field but I found it extremely odd that in the middle of a tense hand off of a dangerous bio-hazard with no definite assurances that he wasn't being tailed by the FBI, William stopped for a chat about Philip's agent. Then continued on to tell him about his wife being sent back. I'm now a bit suspicious that the diseased corpse might not be the only rat in the episode. I wonder if William has been compromised and is a double agent, working with another American intelligence division, and sees Philip as someone who could also be brought on as an asset.

It's probably just me being paranoid but it would explain the ineffectiveness of Glanders. Maybe he gave the Soviets something deadly enough to seem like a genuine effort on his part, but relatively easy to cure and not particularly contagious, so not a major threat to NATO regions. And maybe his conversations with Philip are less him bonding with someone who feels a lot like him, and more him learning if and how he can work him. In fact knowing how Philip feels about his wife, telling him that the Centre took his wife Eliza (- oddly enough a diminutive of Elizabeth) away seems possibly a bit too convenient and potentially very manipulative.

Interesting.  I just took it as William is a really odd duck with poor social skills and can't read situations well plus being more than a little miserable all the time but you have a very interesting point. 

[crgirl412]

 

I think she said he was passionate about the cause and about her...so I'd take that to mean she liked it...?

 

I would disagree that he wasn't an agent of hers, though. He was totally her agent. That was their relationship. He was more independent and respected than Martha, but he was her first recruit.

 

 

I don't know about the legality issue but she's got good reason to think they could run away together, right?

 

Not at all! I was saying that a note wouldn't necessarily have made Martha feel better about being alone than Gabriel, the person Clark said was a friend, telling her he'll be back soon. Still wouldn't have hurt to try it.

 

I do remember E saying they met as some meeting/rally for Socialist or maybe even Communist causes and his passion for the cause caught her attention.  In my mind Martha is a complete innocent whereas Gregory was so for the cause already so I didn't take "agent"  used the same way.  I do remember E talking about bringing him in to help them. 

[lark37]

Actually, I didn't think they had amazing chemistry. I thought that whole situation felt contrived. They were both committed people. But that's as far as the connection went in my eyes. I didn't buy that relationship at all.

 

Nah, I didn't see any amazing chemistry there either.  I got into this show right from the start in part because of the amazing chemistry between Keri and Matthew.  Any other relationships their characters have had have suffered IMO by comparison. The relationship between Elizabeth and Gregory never seemed believable to me.   

 

Everyone is so concerned that Martha will die--I didn't realize that she had become so popular!  I like Martha, and I think Alison Wright is doing some tremendous acting, but I don't think that having Martha die will be any worse than Nina dying.  The only difference is that Nina had a much larger role in the first two seasons, but was sidelined for the last two. As an audience, our attachment to her had lessened by the time she was killed. Martha, is the opposite, in that her role has grown as the seasons progressed.  From the time she planted the pen in Gaad's office, though, I've figured that betrayal would get her killed.  It will be sad to lose the character and actress, but I don't really see where else her story can go at this point.  We already know from Nina's story that trying to keep another plot going where Martha is in Moscow won't work.  I don't think Martha is stable enough to become any type of double agent.  Unless they are so disgusted with Phillip's behavior that they ship him off with Martha to Moscow and then we follow two separate stories next season-- Elizabeth and kids in US and Phillip and Martha in USSR.  Now that would be a twist!

[sistermagpie]

I do remember E saying they met as some meeting/rally for Socialist or maybe even Communist causes and his passion for the cause caught her attention.  In my mind Martha is a complete innocent whereas Gregory was so for the cause already so I didn't take "agent"  used the same way.  I do remember E talking about bringing him in to help them.

 

 

They met at a planning session for a Martin Luther King rally. So Civil Rights, nothing to do with Socialism or Communism. Gregory might have had some involvement with the Black Panthers who did, I believe, stand against capitalism, but we don't know that. I don't think Elizabeth actually said anything about what caught her attention to him as a potential recruit. When she said he was passionate about the cause she was talking about why she was in love with him--he was passionate about the cause and her. Presumably that passion was something she saw before she revealed herself, of course. But she may have been the one that directed it to the cause.

 

But yeah, Gregory wasn't at all like Martha. He wasn't duped. He was probably more like Charles Deluth who was openly agreeing to work for the KGB. But "agent" was exactly what he was. She was his handler. She just wasn't manipulating him dishonestly the way Philip did Martha.

 

I wonder if William has been compromised and is a double agent, working with another American intelligence division, and sees Philip as someone who could also be brought on as an asset.

 

 

You know, usually I'm really wary of any theories like this but I have to say...you might be right. I could see this happening. Picking up on Philip's line about how his work has hurt his daughter and pressing further by saying their bosses don't know what they're doing...that could be a curmudgeon looking for someone to complain to, but it would also be a believable way to look for weak spots in Philip to turn him. He'd have learned that he wants a normal life but only with Elizabeth.

 

In which case, William dropping the fact that the KGB essentially stole his wife and William didn't think he could take them on could have exactly the opposite meaning than a foreshadowing of Philip getting sent back to the USSR if he doesn't shape up. It could be William planting the seed that the KGB could take him away from Elizabeth at any time and they wouldn't think twice about it.

 

ETA: Of course, otoh, if William is a double agent then the network is already blown so the only reason the Jennings aren't caught already is that the FBI doesn't care to go after them, right?

Edited April 23, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Darren]

While the idea of William as a double-agent is an interesting one, the thing is, if he had been "turned", I think he'd be far less obvious about his distaste for his work and for the Centre's leadership. So, I conclude that he is basically who he appears to be. 

[scartact]

I don't know if William's overtly critical attitude toward the KGB and his work are grounds enough to conclude that William can be taken in completely at face value, especially given how often and very rarely are characters who they completely appear to be. I have to admit I do find that idea really intriguing and really clever (it's kind of a cool idea to see P&E on the other end of subterfuge) if that were the case, especially in light of what we've been given so far about William and how much Philip has begun to confide in him. It makes sense and I can sorta buy a scenario where Elizabeth and their family is used as leverage to get him to act accordingly.

 

For me, I've just been really thinking a lot about Philip's actions and how they can be interpreted, and one way for the KGB to read it is that he's completely out of control, picking up Martha and bringing her to a safe house with Gabriel, revealing his true face to her, and ultimately letting her know he works for the KGB. These are all just a series of irrational decisions especially of an incredibly important KGB asset, and the culmination of it is watching Martha walk out of a safe house, the only one to stop her a still recovering Gabriel. So in argument against the idea of William as a double agent, I could definitely also reasonably see a scenario where it's not the U.S. government, but the Soviet Union/KGB who leverage Elizabeth and their children in order to ensure he cooperates. Or shit, maybe both ends wind up doing that to him, in which case, Philip continues to get even more fucked in this situation.

[Tetraneutron]

My happy ending is they get Martha out somehow, her last scene in the show is some apartment in Moscow where she's taking care of her new baby boy, "Clark's" baby. They did presumably have unprotected sex in the safe house.....

How is that a happy ending? For anyone? Martha's stranded in enemy territory, knows nothing of the language or culture, has no way to support herself, and has a child. 

 

It always gnawed at me that Martha would accept that Clark was not who he said he was but never pushed him into telling her any of the details. She never asked him who he worked for. She never asked him to tell her where the info was going or what it was being used for. It could have been used for almost anything - including doing great harm to her country. A huge tragedy in the making. At the very least, it seems to me, that she would really need to know more. Why didn't she press Clark for the details?

Chicken and egg. If she were the kind of person to question things she never would have been chosen. She kept lying to herself. And the more she agreed to do illegal stuff, the more she had to justify it to her self and the more she had to convince herself that there is some kind of reasonable explanation. It's the same with anyone who gets conned. They keep giving more and more money because they can't admit to themselves they were gullible. 

 

Like Elizabeth did with Gregory and Philip did with Charles and Kate did with Jared? She's not the first person to know the nature of their work. Hell, at this point Pastor Tim knows they're KGB.

 

Of course Martha isn't like those other three--she was being duped instead of actually recruited, but at this point she pretty much knows the true nature of their work. She hadn't let him say it out loud yet, but if she'd asked him more about who he actually worked for way back when he first had to confess to her he would have told her more. 

Tim doesn't know they're KGB. They've gone to huge lengths to hide that from him. And Martha is substantially different than Gregory or Jared. Both were told upfront about everything and did their work with the clear idea of their ideology and who they were working for. Martha is the opposite. She was told that "Clark" was some sort of ally to the FBI. Internal Affairs or something. She shouldn't have been that trusting or so desperate for a man she'd ignore what was going on, but if she were remotely the kind of person to ask questions Philip would have picked another mark. And I seriously doubt Philip would have told Martha everything about his incredibly illegal work if she'd only asked. He put a lot of effort in lying to her. I don't understand people here saying that Martha was a KGB agent. She's neither of those things. Until Philip told her in the safehouse she had no idea what was going on.