S04.E07: There's No Place Like Home

[radishcake]

Norman returns home after making an unanticipated discovery; Norma takes on new projects; Dylan's search for Emma's mother leads to disturbing results.

[ari333]

ut-oh.....

[FurryFury]

Wow, the shit's really going to hit the fan this episode.

[Solzhenknitsyn]

Speculation on #nomero on Twitter (what? I'm not ashamed to ship) is that (MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER)

the "new project" Norma takes on is a baby, which will serve to amplify Norman's resentment. Vera Farmiga liked a tweet that raised the baby possibility, soooo...

[Avaleigh]

Speculation on #nomero on Twitter (what? I'm not ashamed to ship) is that (MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER)

the "new project" Norma takes on is a baby, which will serve to amplify Norman's resentment. Vera Farmiga liked a tweet that raised the baby possibility, soooo...

I'm taking this to the speculation thread. 

[Spartan Girl]

God, Norman, you used to be such a nice kid. Now you're manipulating people and losing your mind all at once.

Norma, Norma, Norma. As usual, you make the wrong choices at every turn. First she lies to Norman about her new marriage. Then, when the truth comes out, she acts like a cheating wife that gets caught and brings Norman home, despite both Dylan and the doctor telling her that it's NOT a good idea.

The whole root of the problem is that both she and Norman are so addicted to their toxic, codependent pseudo marriage that they'll never be able to break free.

So Emma's mom has tried to guilt trip her way into getting financial help from Emma before? I knew that stuff about Emma's dad being abusive was bull.

[truthaboutluv]

Norma asking Dylan if Emma was dead and Dylan's reaction was the most hilarious moment of the episode. And we can use all the humor we can get on this show since things are likely to get really, really bad, really, really soon. I'm not sure I think the therapist should be practicing and I say this as a person who likes him but the fact that he can so easily be manipulated by a patient, makes me question his skills. 

 

I thought it was so obvious Norman was manipulating the hell out of him in that scene in the art room. That said, I don't think that was Norman and I think it is safe to say that Norman is officially gone. Of all the things to be the straw that breaks him - Norma marrying Romero did it. Thing is, it makes sense. Because again, for so long Norma helped foster this creepy codependent "it's just you and me" relationship in them that it's not surprising he would view her marrying someone else, not to mention doing it without telling him, as the ultimate betrayal by her. 

 

Poor, poor delusional Norma. Dylan told her not to make him come home but of course, a few tears and she reverted right back into coddling and enabling mode with Norman. I cannot believe Norma is STILL burying her head in the sand and saying Norman is not dangerous. Even if she wants to believe he didn't murder Emma's mom because okay, no one wants to think that of their child but there is no way that Norma, who if nothing else knows for a FACT that Norman murdered his dad, can still naively say that Norman is not dangerous. This even when she hid in a room with a gun and in a moment of desperation called Romero which is exactly what eventually got Norman's crazy behind in the mental institution in the first place. 

 

And now it's all too late. Again, I think it's obvious that Mother has fully taken over as the personalities sometimes do and not only is she very, very dangerous, she's also manipulative and smart. So she'll make sure Norman is never put back in the institution while everyone who comes near Norman will be in serious danger. 

Edited April 26, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Jade Foxx]

Soooo this is the beginning of the end.

Nomero, y'all were so cute together!

[thuganomics85]

So, we get an actual scene this time of Romero and Norma rolling around in a bed naked (or partially at least), and it just happens to be on an episode that is directed by Nestor Carbonell himself?  Nestor, you dog!  Kidding!

 

I actually think one of my favorite scenes from this episode might be the one where Norman calmly explains to Julian how he's going to get himself out of there, because he knows how to act normal.  Because it shows that, on some levels, Norman knows he's messed-up.  But, as he says, he is able to portray himself has a sympathetic young man, who is just sick, and is generally harmless.  He really has this scary knack to make a lot of people underestimate how bad he really is.  It certainly doesn't help that Norma just can't help herself, and keeps folding with him, no matter how many times Romero and Dylan tell her otherwise.  So, now he is free.  Well, he'll still be visiting Edwards from time to time, but I can only imagine what he has planned.  Romero better lock the doors and sleep with one eye open.

 

Dylan looks into Emma's mom's disappearance, and seems to be temporarily placated, by them thinking she was just wanting money from Emma, and didn't really want to spend time with her, but I have a feeling this isn't over, and this will lead to Dylan getting onto the wrong side of Norman.

 

Loved the Norma/Dylan scene and all the dark humor involved in it.  Of course, Norma would somehow think Dylan needing to talk is because Emma freaking died, even though Dylan was way too calm, if that had actually happened.  Always assume the worst, don't you, Norma?

 

It was just sad watching Norma lie to Norman over and over again.  Maybe it is already too late, but I just felt like if she at least automatically told him the truth and took a hard stance on her marriage to Romero, maybe things could be different.

 

Only three episodes left this season.  And I'm kind of terrified over what could happen in the rest of this season.  I've always enjoyed this show, but it really feels like the stakes have gotten much bigger this time around.  Probably because no drug wars or politics are involved.  This is just straight up "will this be the episode/season where Norman kills someone he is close too?" territory, now.

[Jade Foxx]

So, we get an actual scene this time of Romero and Norma rolling around in a bed naked (or partially at least), and it just happens to be on an episode that is directed by Nestor Carbonell himself? Nestor, you dog! Kidding!

I actually think one of my favorite scenes from this episode might be the one where Norman calmly explains to Julian how he's going to get himself out of there, because he knows how to act normal. Because it shows that, on some levels, Norman knows he's messed-up. But, as he says, he is able to portray himself has a sympathetic young man, who is just sick, and is generally harmless. He really has this scary knack to make a lot of people underestimate how bad he really is. It certainly doesn't help that Norma just can't help herself, and keeps folding with him, no matter how many times Romero and Dylan tell her otherwise. So, now he is free. Well, he'll still be visiting Edwards from time to time, but I can only imagine what he has planned. Romero better lock the doors and sleep with one eye open.

Dylan looks into Emma's mom's disappearance, and seems to be temporarily placated, by them thinking she was just wanting money from Emma, and didn't really want to spend time with her, but I have a feeling this isn't over, and this will lead to Dylan getting onto the wrong side of Norman.

Loved the Norma/Dylan scene and all the dark humor involved in it. Of course, Norma would somehow think Dylan needing to talk is because Emma freaking died, even though Dylan was way too calm, if that had actually happened. Always assume the worst, don't you, Norma?

It was just sad watching Norma lie to Norman over and over again. Maybe it is already too late, but I just felt like if she at least automatically told him the truth and took a hard stance on her marriage to Romero, maybe things could be different.

Only three episodes left this season. And I'm kind of terrified over what could happen in the rest of this season. I've always enjoyed this show, but it really feels like the stakes have gotten much bigger this time around. Probably because no drug wars or politics are involved. This is just straight up "will this be the episode/season where Norman kills someone he is close too?" territory, now.

It's too late.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jade Foxx

[ganesh]

The best part of the Dylan/Norma scene was "No! She's not dead. I just said about the tree." "Oh yeah."

I do think the doctor is sincere in wanting to help Norman, but I think he's going to go too. 

I like the whole sword of damocles hanging over the show now. It's not going to be pretty. Run, Dylan!

[Fable]

This episode bothered me a bit.  I never got the sense, either from the movie or from this series, that Norman was anything other than a deeply disturbed and mentally ill person.  However, now we are seeing Norman as manipulative and game playing, which I don’t care for because it doesn't ring true.  It seems to me that the reason he dissociates is because he is a kind and empathetic person who is unable or unwilling to make hard choices for himself, so he has an alter ego in "Mother" who goes to an extreme in doing it for him. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Fable

[RCharter]

On 4/26/2016 at 11:25 PM, Jade Foxx said:

Soooo this is the beginning of the end.

Nomero, y'all were so cute together!

I know, when Romero was like "and I'm going to be the father he never had."  I was just wondering if he was going to end up in the pit, or if there was going to be an accident of him falling from the top of the house.....perhaps he is going to end up buried under those fruit trees.  So sad....

[Dobian]

12 minutes ago, Fable said:

This episode bothered me a bit.  I never got the sense, either from the movie or from this series, that Norman was anything other than a deeply disturbed and mentally ill person.  However, now we are seeing Norman as manipulative and game playing, which I don’t care for because it doesn't ring true.  It seems to me that the reason he dissociates is because he is a kind and empathetic person who is unable or unwilling to make hard choices for himself, so he has an alter ego in "Mother" who goes to an extreme in doing it for him. 

He doesn't seem as much like the kind and decent Norman from the first couple of seasons, but you could say that is a natural reaction to the events of the last few years and Norma's own erratic behavior.  Finding out she got married while he was institutionalized and hid it from him is a big deal.  But the way he's reacting to it when he is himself I don't think is out of character.  His relationship with Norma is creepy even if he wasn't mentally ill.  He would definitely be jealous of her and Romero, which would create behavioral issues even if he didn't dissociate.

[Snaporaz]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 10:31 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 I'm not sure I think the therapist should be practicing and I say this as a person who likes him but the fact that he can so easily be manipulated by a patient, makes me question his skills. 

I think the therapist was trying to make the best out of the hand he was dealt.  He may not have had enough evidence to petition the court, Norma wouldn't cooperate and "be the bad guy", and Norman might have resisted treatment completely if he was held against his will.  He probably thought agreeing to outpatient therapy was better for Norman than no therapy at all.

The sense of dread is so palpable right now...

[RCharter]

5 minutes ago, Dobian said:

He doesn't seem as much like the kind and decent Norman from the first couple of seasons, but you could say that is a natural reaction to the events of the last few years and Norma's own erratic behavior.  Finding out she got married while he was institutionalized and hid it from him is a big deal.  But the way he's reacting to it when he is himself I don't think is out of character.  His relationship with Norma is creepy even if he wasn't mentally ill.  He would definitely be jealous of her and Romero, which would create behavioral issues even if he didn't dissociate.

I just think that this has to bring out the very worst in Norman.  He and Norma have always had a relationship that was a little too close to incest for me.  

Even if they were both totally normal, I imagine any young man that had his mother to himself for 18 years and suddenly found himself with a step father would take some issue with it.  But their relationship has always been some disturbing mix of mother/son/lover.  All the time with them laying in bed together...spooning.  Norma doesn't know any better because of the situation with Caleb...but no bueno.  And as far as Norman is concerned he has been the only man in her life and in her house for 18 years.  Norma was just dating that psychologist guy, and Norman did not like it AT ALL, so Norma being married...and happy?  And Romero is probably going to try to be a "strong" type father figure?  Oh no.....rough waters ahead......

[peacheslatour]

How do we upvote comments?

[truthaboutluv]

35 minutes ago, Fable said:

This episode bothered me a bit.  I never got the sense, either from the movie or from this series, that Norman was anything other than a deeply disturbed and mentally ill person.  However, now we are seeing Norman as manipulative and game playing, which I don’t care for because it doesn't ring true.  It seems to me that the reason he dissociates is because he is a kind and empathetic person who is unable or unwilling to make hard choices for himself, so he has an alter ego in "Mother" who goes to an extreme in doing it for him. 

 

Some may disagree, but that's why I don't think that was Norman anymore. Oh don't get me wrong, Norman would totally be pissed off at Norma for marrying someone and not telling him because as others have rightly noted, there has always been this creepy, slightly disturbing quality to their relationship that Norma helped foster and it has always been with the understanding that "it's just the two of them." So I absolutely think he was pissed and probably hurt just for the fact that she'd do something that major and not tell him.

But that's why I think that anger and disappointment were enough to force Mother out and I don't think she left. At this point, I don't think "normal" Norman is ever really present any more or if he is, it's very brief and rare. Mother has taken over and it makes sense. Norma, in Norman's eyes, betrayed him. Mother attacks those who hurt Norman or want to hurt him and his relationship with Norma, which right now is most definitely in her eyes, Romero. The show is so depressing on one level because we all know where it's inevitably going but it is fascinating and riveting to watch. 

[RCharter]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

How do we upvote comments?

I think you have to click on the heart.  At least thats what I'm assuming :)

[Nutjob]

I don't know if I think Mother has completely taken over, but I do think "her" ideals are now impacting what we once saw as the most normal bit of Norman. There was a time when he wanted to commit suicide because he knew something was wrong with him and he was willing to take himself out in order to save the people around him. Now? It's all about self preservation, and IMO it's Mother's influence that is causing that shift. He's not just disassociating--they're melding together into one.

[designing1]

18 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Some may disagree, but that's why I don't think that was Norman anymore. Oh don't get me wrong, Norman would totally be pissed off at Norma for marrying someone and not telling him because as others have rightly noted, there has always been this creepy, slightly disturbing quality to their relationship that Norma helped foster and it has always been with the understanding that "it's just the two of them." So I absolutely think he was pissed and probably hurt just for the fact that she'd do something that major and not tell him.

But that's why I think that anger and disappointment were enough to force Mother out and I don't think she left. At this point, I don't think "normal" Norman is ever really present any more or if he is, it's very brief and rare. Mother has taken over and it makes sense. Norma, in Norman's eyes, betrayed him. Mother attacks those who hurt Norman or want to hurt him and his relationship with Norma, which right now is most definitely in her eyes, Romero. The show is so depressing on one level because we all know where it's inevitably going but it is fascinating and riveting to watch. 

I agree completely. When the doctor left the art room after his talk with the incredibly manipulative Norman, there was this change in Norman's posture, this softening, that said (to me, at least) he was actually Mother.

Freddie's doing amazing work; I'm no longer even hearing his accent slip through when Norman is yelling. He's also probably one of the best criers in the business. And yet, he (and Vera) will probably once again get overlooked come awards season.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I agree completely. When the doctor left the art room after his talk with the incredibly manipulative Norman, there was this change in Norman's posture, this softening, that said (to me, at least) he was actually Mother.

 

Yup you noticed that too? That's when I knew for certain that wasn't Norman. The way he moved, the slight smirk, etc. when the doctor left the room.  And yeah Freddie's killing it.

Quote

And yet, he (and Vera) will probably once again get overlooked come awards season.

Totally agree. That's why some say awards are almost meaningless at times because there are so many people doing such amazing work that never get recognized for it. I mean I also think it's ludicrous Mads and Hugh Dancy never got nominated for Hannibal. And the poor cast of The Americans. This year, my only favorite I'm holding my breath for is Mr. Robot and Rami Malek. 

[ari333]

The doctor said "diss-AH-sociating" That sounded incorrect, but maybe Im wrong.

I didnt' think it was a great idea to keep the marriage from Norman especially when he called and was clearly hinting at it.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, RCharter said:

I think you have to click on the heart.  At least thats what I'm assuming :)

Thanks! I see the icons now, I just needed to disable No Script.

39 minutes ago, ari333 said:

The doctor said "diss-AH-sociating" That sounded incorrect, but maybe Im wrong.

I didnt' think it was a great idea to keep the marriage from Norman especially when he called and was clearly hinting at it.

No shit. I'm starting to think poor Norma isn't really mental, she's just stupid.

[sigmaforce86]

I think Norman can be both deeply disturbed/mentally ill AND a game playing manipulator - if it's his mental illness that's causing him to manipulate because in his view of the world he's doing what he needs to do or "telling the truth".

The best scene in that episode (IMHO) was the end, Norma and Norman walking up the path to the house shot from way above.  No words, no heavy anvils hitting us on the head saying here's what we're trying to tell you but still it gave this overwhelming feeling that what you were seeing was he left the house Norman the young adult and he's returning as NORMAN BATES......................and I mean that in the big, capitol, glowing neon letters, the feeling that the guy Norma brought home is now, at least internally, fully and completely the guy we know from Psycho.

[maczero]

3 hours ago, RCharter said:

And as far as Norman is concerned he has been the only man in her life and in her house for 18 years.  

I don't think that's correct.  Norman had a father that he and Norma lived with for most of his life.  Also, Norma dated Shelby and it was pretty clear that he was sleeping over from time to time.  I think a more accurate statement is that Norman sees himself as the only "good" man in Norma's life.

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Some may disagree, but that's why I don't think that was Norman anymore. . 

So is there a third personality?  I guess this more manipulative personality could be "Mother" but I'm hoping it wasn't.  I've always felt that the Mother personality doesn't manifest in Norma's presence.  I'm sure Mother will reveal herself in Norma's presence but I want it to be something epic.  If "Mother" was in control when Norman was crying to come back home then that just seems underwhelming.

[RCharter]

2 minutes ago, maczero said:

I don't think that's correct.  Norman had a father that he and Norma lived with for most of his life.  Also, Norma dated Shelby and it was pretty clear that he was sleeping over from time to time.  I think a more accurate statement is that Norman sees himself as the only "good" man in Norma's life.

You're right about Norman having a father, but even then, it was clear (to me) that it was Norma and Norman vs. father.  So, to me, he was still essentially the man of the house.  The person Norma would go to and cluck over....I imagine Norman's father was just an afterthought.  

As for Shelby...sleeping over from time to time hardly constitutes "man of the house" or would it be a threat to Norman's position with Norma as "man of the house."  

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Also, Norma dated Shelby and it was pretty clear that he was sleeping over from time to time. 

I don't think Shelby ever slept over, instead, Norma slept over at his place and Norman wasn't too thrilled about that. Of course later his dislike of Shelby had more to do with his realizing Shelby had some young woman chained up in his basement. 

Quote

So is there a third personality?  I guess this more manipulative personality could be "Mother" but I'm hoping it wasn't.  I've always felt that the Mother personality doesn't manifest in Norma's presence.  I'm sure Mother will reveal herself in Norma's presence but I want it to be something epic.  If "Mother" was in control when Norman was crying to come back home then that just seems underwhelming.

 

No, I don't think there is a third personality. I think that actually was Mother and I don't think we're going to get a Mother and Norma showdown or at least not anytime soon because Mother will not allow Norma to realize it's her. Basically, the way I see it, Mother has taken over Norman. Like many instances of multiple personality disorder, the other personality knows everything about the other person and their existence. It's the person who usually doesn't know of their existence, much like Norman didn't know of Mother until the doctor told him. So Mother who is well aware of all the details and secrets about Norman, and who is manipulative and very, very dangerous is the one who will be navigating through life as "mild, taking his meds and trying to get better" Norman. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[AlwaysWatching]

2 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I think Norman can be both deeply disturbed/mentally ill AND a game playing manipulator - if it's his mental illness that's causing him to manipulate because in his view of the world he's doing what he needs to do or "telling the truth".

The best scene in that episode (IMHO) was the end, Norma and Norman walking up the path to the house shot from way above.  No words, no heavy anvils hitting us on the head saying here's what we're trying to tell you but still it gave this overwhelming feeling that what you were seeing was he left the house Norman the young adult and he's returning as NORMAN BATES......................and I mean that in the big, capitol, glowing neon letters, the feeling that the guy Norma brought home is now, at least internally, fully and completely the guy we know from Psycho.

Exactly!  Nestor Carbonell did an amazing job at the very end of the episode.  When Norman is walking down the stairs of the psych hospital, the camera is showing the back of his head all the way down.  The doctor and Norma are spaced apart.  For the first time since this show started, I absolutely felt the "Psycho" vibe. Norman is now the Norman of the movie "Psycho" and it was a brilliant bit of directing that gave me goose bumps.   To me, Nestor with that shot and the one Sigmaforce86  mentioned above with Norma and Norman coming up to, what for me, hasn't really been that creepy of a house, to now it being this terrible, inevitable house of doom.  

Nestor Carbonell did a fantastic job of paying a great homage to Alfred Hitchcock in those last two scenes.  Oh, and the rest of episode was great too. Damn, though..those last two scenes.

[maczero]

1 hour ago, RCharter said:

You're right about Norman having a father, but even then, it was clear (to me) that it was Norma and Norman vs. father.  So, to me, he was still essentially the man of the house.  The person Norma would go to and cluck over....I imagine Norman's father was just an afterthought.  

As for Shelby...sleeping over from time to time hardly constitutes "man of the house" or would it be a threat to Norman's position with Norma as "man of the house."  

Yeah but I don't think you can discount either of those relationships.  Norman has never been the only man in Norma's life.  So Romero being the new man of the house isn't new territory for Norman.

[RCharter]

18 hours ago, maczero said:

Yeah but I don't think you can discount either of those relationships.  Norman has never been the only man in Norma's life.  So Romero being the new man of the house isn't new territory for Norman.

But it IS new territory if Norma is sincerely in love with Romero and is willing to put him in the traditional "man of the house" or "husband" role that has been Norman's place.  Romero would be the first person to supplant Norman's role....the role that is very, very, very important to Norman.  So, I think it's completely new territory for Norman.  

Edited April 28, 2016 by RCharter

[maczero]

1 minute ago, RCharter said:

But it IS new territory if Norma is sincerely in love with him and is willing to put him in the traditional "man of the house" or "husband" role that has been Norman's place.  Romero would be the first person to supplant Norman's role....the role that is very, very, very important to Norman.  So, I think it's completely new territory for Norman.  

Being with a man she loves is new territory for Norma but being threatened about being replaced as the man of the house is Norman's thing.  It happened with Shelby and even Dylan.  We don't really know how he felt about his dad. 

[RCharter]

2 minutes ago, maczero said:

Being with a man she loves is new territory for Norma but being threatened about being replaced as the man of the house is Norman's thing.  It happened with Shelby and even Dylan.  We don't really know how he felt about his dad. 

No matter how he felt about his dad, Norman was still the man of the house.  Making someone the "man" of the house, is actually Norma's thing.  It would be who she caters to, who she goes to for help, who she wants to sing at the piano with, etc, etc.  Neither Shelby, nor Dylan ever occupied that role for Norma, it has always been Norman.  The closest person has been Dylan.....maybe, and Norman had problems with him when Dylan was living in the house and he felt that he and Norma were getting too close.  Except now, Romero is filling that role.....and will be a threat to Norman's place as the man of the house.....a threat that Norman has never faced before because no one else has ever held that position except him.

[maczero]

3 minutes ago, RCharter said:

No matter how he felt about his dad, Norman was still the man of the house.  Making someone the "man" of the house, is actually Norma's thing.  It would be who she caters to, who she goes to for help, who she wants to sing at the piano with, etc, etc.  Neither Shelby, nor Dylan ever occupied that role for Norma, it has always been Norman.  The closest person has been Dylan.....maybe, and Norman had problems with him when Dylan was living in the house and he felt that he and Norma were getting too close.  Except now, Romero is filling that role.....and will be a threat to Norman's place as the man of the house.....a threat that Norman has never faced before because no one else has ever held that position except him.

Going back to your statement below

Quote

And as far as Norman is concerned he has been the only man in her life and in her house for 18 years.  

It is up to Norman to decide who he sees as a threat to his position as "man of the house".  I believe Norman considered both Dylan and Shelby both threats to that position.  Romero just happens to be a bigger threat (because of the marriage) but not the first.   This is why I say this isn't really new territory for Norman.

[RCharter]

9 minutes ago, maczero said:

Going back to your statement below

It is up to Norman to decide who he sees as a threat to his position as "man of the house".  I believe Norman considered both Dylan and Shelby both threats to that position.  Romero just happens to be a bigger threat (because of the marriage) but not the first.   This is why I say this isn't really new territory for Norman.

It has been Norma's actions that have given Norman the impression....which is the truth....that he is the "man of the house"

Dylan and Shelby were nowhere near the threat that Romero is.  I think the situations are so completely different that they cannot really be compared, only to say that with even small similarities Norman still went off.  And because this relationship with Romero is so different, it is new territory for Norman.

[maczero]

12 minutes ago, RCharter said:

It has been Norma's actions that have given Norman the impression....which is the truth....that he is the "man of the house"

Dylan and Shelby were nowhere near the threat that Romero is.  I think the situations are so completely different that they cannot really be compared, only to say that with even small similarities Norman still went off.  And because this relationship with Romero is so different, it is new territory for Norman.

To me, any man that Norma has interest in will be perceived as a threat to Norman's "man of the house" status.  I see Romero just as a slight variation on a reoccurring theme that Norman will not share Norma with anyone else.  

[RCharter]

3 minutes ago, maczero said:

To me, any man that Norma has interest in will be perceived as a threat to Norman's "man of the house" status.  I see Romero just as a slight variation on a reoccurring theme that Norman will not share Norma with anyone else.  

But no threat has been the same as this one, not even in the same ballpark.  I don't agree that Romero is simply a "slight variation," because no one has lived with Norma, in that house, as her husband and in the traditional role as "man of the house."  Not even her husband because there is nothing to show that she had any interest or care for him.  Romero is completely different from any other relationship that Norma has had, she sincerely loves him.  

There are glaring differences between the relationship with Romero/Norma, and Normas relationship with anyone else.  With her husband, she barely cared and her bond with Norman was much closer.  With Dylan, he was her "wayward son" and she was never as close with him as she was with Norman, Dylan never had that sexual component that Norman/Norma have and that Romero and Norma have.  It was much more of a traditional mother/son relationship, complete with the boundaries that Norma hasn't had with Norman.  And with that other guy, she again, barely cared and was pretty much just using him, and he never moved into the house at all.  

In all of these relationships before Romero, Norman's place was never really threatened, because the nature of those relationships was so very different from the relationship with Romero.

[maczero]

1 minute ago, RCharter said:

But no threat has been the same as this one, not even in the same ballpark.  I don't agree that Romero is simply a "slight variation," because no one has lived with Norma, in that house, as her husband and in the traditional role as "man of the house."  Not even her husband because there is nothing to show that she had any interest or care for him.  Romero is completely different from any other relationship that Norma has had, she sincerely loves him.  

There are glaring differences between the relationship with Romero/Norma, and Normas relationship with anyone else.  With her husband, she barely cared and her bond with Norman was much closer.  With Dylan, he was her "wayward son" and she was never as close with him as she was with Norman, Dylan never had that sexual component that Norman/Norma have and that Romero and Norma have.  It was much more of a traditional mother/son relationship, complete with the boundaries that Norma hasn't had with Norman.  And with that other guy, she again, barely cared and was pretty much just using him, and he never moved into the house at all.  

In all of these relationships before Romero, Norman's place was never really threatened, because the nature of those relationships was so very different from the relationship with Romero.

You're forgetting one thing, Norman doesn't know how Norma truly feels about Romero.  He found out that they were married in the paper only a couple of days ago.  Prior to that, he hadn't seen the two of them interact in any way that was romantic.  Hell, Norma didn't really express strong feelings for Romero until a few days ago.    Norman hasn't had a chance to observe this closeness but to him it's all the same.  He's thinking "Someone is going to take mother away from me".

In any case, I feel like we're both sticking to our guns on the matter. So .... agree to disagree?

[RCharter]

13 minutes ago, maczero said:

You're forgetting one thing, Norman doesn't know how Norma truly feels about Romero.  He found out that they were married in the paper only a couple of days ago.  Prior to that, he hadn't seen the two of them interact in any way that was romantic.  Hell, Norma didn't really express strong feelings for Romero until a few days ago.    Norman hasn't had a chance to observe this closeness but to him it's all the same.  He's thinking "Someone is going to take mother away from me".

In any case, I feel like we're both sticking to our guns on the matter. So .... agree to disagree?

No, he doesn't yet know, and he already suspects that it is much more serious because Romero is living there and Norma hid the marriage from him.  For Norman, I think he already suspects it is more, because: a) why wouldn't Norma just tell him its a fake marriage for insurance, and b) why would he be living there and answering the phone if it wasn't real.  Those two factors, together, already have Norman thinking its more than Norma is letting on.  And, in Norman's somewhat paranoid mind, she would only need to hide things from him if it was serious and real.  The fact that he is living there and Norma didn't just tell him about the marriage gives Norman every reason to believe that someone is a serious threat to his position as man of the house.  

Because, the relationship is so different from any other relationship Norma has had it is a very different, and much, much more serious threat than any of Norma's other relationships.  

Edited April 28, 2016 by RCharter

[ari333]

I know this is just tv, but I wish Norma had asked the doctor how to tell Norman about the marriage. It may have been a big deal in telling him, but it is a far bigger deal in not telling him and his finding out.

[Ailianna]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:31 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Of all the things to be the straw that breaks him - Norma marrying Romero did it. Thing is, it makes sense. Because again, for so long Norma helped foster this creepy codependent "it's just you and me" relationship in them that it's not surprising he would view her marrying someone else, not to mention doing it without telling him, as the ultimate betrayal by her. 

I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but your line "doing it without telling him" can apply to Norman's obsession with whether Norma was having sex with Romero as well.  He kept coming back to whether Norma was having sex, in a way that is a lot more, imo, than a teenage boy being disgusted at parental sex in general.  He was very much the jealous lover in those moments, if you ask me.

[ari333]

I agree that it was super creepy that Norman kept focusing on Norma's possible sex with her husband. Yikes.

[Fable]

Truly, I think one of the most regrettable things Norma has ever done was to lie to Norman about her marriage (and Norma has done a lot of unfortunate things).   Like Dylan said, she treated him like a child who couldn't face the truth.  When she treats him like a child, she should expect a childish response.  I love Norma, but she handles Norman with kid gloves, although I think Norman can handle the truth better than she can.   Her denial about things is likely a huge factor in Norman's messed up reality.  

[raven]

I think we see a shift in the balance of power in Norma & Norman's relationship.   The scene in the hospital foyer where she sits down and tries to pull him next to her, he pulls back and remains standing and keeps the newspaper clipping out of her reach - it's filmed so she's looking up at him.  He's holding all the cards there, holding her lie over her and she crumbles.  I found that very affecting and sad as well.  Norma has only known mistrust, lies and coverups and did the worst possible thing here.  Note the difference with her reaction when Dylan catches her lying about Emma's mother being at the motel - she puts up her front and tries to act casual and Dylan backs off, even though he knows she's wrong.  The marriage lie is more personal, sure, but her demeanor when being caught is totally different and that gives Norman the moral high ground (in his mind).   If she had argued with him, told him as S1 Norma might have that it was in Norman's best interest, he may have flown off the handle and not been allowed to leave.  This show has done a great job of pointing out how wrong each and every decision is. 

I can't fault the therapist here.  I thought his expression when Norman left the hospital was very telling - "I don't think this is the best thing but I'm going to try to make the best of it".  As far as violence, all he knows is Norman's attack on Norma - I don't think he knows about Norman killing his father.  He may have suspicions but he doesn't know the extent yet, and with no backing from Norma, from his perspective it's doubtful he would get that court order and he would ruin whatever trust Norman has in him now.  Though I know Norman won't be "cured", I hope we get more therapy sessions because I like the dynamic there.

Edited May 1, 2016 by raven

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

As far as violence, all he knows is Norman's attack on Norma 

Does he know about this? Because I am pretty sure Norma never said anything to him about it, which is why they had that awkward scene of her saying Norman is not violent and the doctor saying he never used the word violent. I think as far as the doctor knew, Norman was having blackouts that were getting worse, he'd disappeared for some days when he was eventually picked up and locked up in a county facility and Norma was desperate to get him help because she was worried about the state getting involved and locking him up in the very horrible county mental hospital. Plus, since Norman signed the papers, he was under the impression Norman signed himself in. Keep in mind even in this episode Norma was still in some level of denial about how dangerous Norman can be. So I'm pretty sure the doctor knows nothing about Norman having the gun and Norma running away and locking herself in the room before she called Romero. 

[raven]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So I'm pretty sure the doctor knows nothing about Norman having the gun and Norma running away and locking herself in the room before she called Romero. 

You could be right - I was thinking that since Romero brought another cop with him and Norman was taken to the state institution, there would be an official report about why all of that happened.  There wouldn't just be "this kid blacked out, wandered into a field and committed himself".  I guess Romero would suppress any info that Norma asked him to, I'm thinking there has to be a strong reason to commit yourself, but I don't know it works in real life, never mind tv life.

[Guest]

On 4/30/2016 at 10:48 AM, Ailianna said:

I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but your line "doing it without telling him" can apply to Norman's obsession with whether Norma was having sex with Romero as well.  He kept coming back to whether Norma was having sex, in a way that is a lot more, imo, than a teenage boy being disgusted at parental sex in general.  He was very much the jealous lover in those moments, if you ask me.

Yeah, that was really inappropriate and one of the many, many examples of Norma allowing inappropriate boundaries there.  A 19 year old son (or really any age child) doesn't get to express disgust over his single mother having sex, especially marital sex with a responsible adult she loves who's supporting the son's treatment.  

We thought Norman's change in demeanor after his doctor left the art therapy room, buying his Oscar worthy, tearful performance, was him showing us it was an act, not an alternate personality.  He knows the doctor well enough to push the right buttons to manipulate him.   

Norman used to be pitiable but I think they're turning him and Norma both more monstrous, to make the ending less tragic for the viewers.  It's getting to the point where with both of them I'm feeling a bit like they deserve each other and their rotten fates.  I just don't (yet) want to see Romero, Dylan and Emma die as collateral damage.

[Lady Calypso]

This is the first episode where I definitely couldn't tell if Norman was Norman, or if he was Mother. I think the fact that it's now harder to tell goes to show how close he is to becoming the man he was in Psycho. He's not well, he probably won't get better, and he's slowly merging with his Mother personality with each passing day. He is getting better at manipulating, which is scary enough. I loved the scene with Julian as well, because he's right in that he knows how to act normal. It was both fascinating and terrifying, and you could see the look on Julian's face morph into terrified. 

I think Norma made a huge mistake in lying about her marriage, and then continuing to deny. Not only that, but not telling Dr. Edwards why she thinks Norman should stay (I imagine she now has Emma's mom's possible murder by Norman on the brain) makes things more dangerous, and I do think she needs to be held accountable for at least part of Norman's illness. Well, he probably would have ended up being sick regardless, but whatever he does now, Norma has a hand in it. I don't want her and Romero to end up dead, but she has encouraged such an unhealthy relationship that it's no wonder Norman is upset by Norma's marriage as well as her insistence that he stays in the hospital. For all Norman knows, Norma is actually replacing him and getting rid of him. If she talked to him like an adult, maybe things would be different. 

I do think we're getting way closer to the events of Psycho than I initially thought. I feel like maybe, just maybe it could happen by the finale this season. They could drag it out for next season, but it's possible that Norma and Romero may die by Norman's hand sooner. 

I agree that Dr. Edwards was too easily manipulated, but he is also missing an entire chunk of vital information that would make his decisions easier. It's Norma's fault that he can't get that court order, because she keeps insisting that he's not violent. So if he isn't violent, and Norman is agreeing to multiple therapy sessions a week and medication, why shouldn't he be let go?

Dylan is so going to find Audrey's body on the property, and Norman is so not going to be happy about it. I also wonder if he might find Bradley's body in the water as well? I doubt it, but somebody's got to find it eventually, right? Just a thought I was thinking about today. 

[Guest]

I figure it's very likely no one will find those bodies, since we know Norman gets away with multiple murders well into adulthood.

I assumed Emma's mom was in the filled pool pit.  I don't think she's likely to be found ever, if so.  

[Bebecat]

Will Alex get busted when that bank woman talks? I am a little unclear as to what happened with all that, but assuming that Alex murdered that guy? I guess it would be one way to get things back to just Norma and Norman. I know I am hoping in vain that they (Norma and Alex) can end up together. I usually am not invested in relationships on shows much, but I am wanting them to work out for some reason, while it is totally unrealistic to think they could. Only if Norman was out of the picture for good, in which case Norma would be too much of a basket case anyway. I am so scared of Norman right now, lol. I can barely watch. But all of the actors on this show as amazing, from the main three, to ""Dylan" "Emma" etc...having "Dylan" on screen is a treat in more ways than one. :)