S03.E18: Mr. Solomon: Conclusion

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I so don't think Liz is actually dead.  I would actually be impressed if they did kill her since I found her to be a bore, and I would actually be intrigued at seeing Red and the rest of the characters continue after they lost her, but I doubt this show would go there.  I'm guessing they just need to give Megan Boone maternity leave, so this is going to be all a big set-up between her, Miss Kaplan, and Nick, to make everyone else think she's dead.  Maybe Tom is in on it too.  But I think the reason she was suddenly nice to Red again, was to lure him into a false sense of security, and not be prepared for it.  I still think she doesn't want Red to have anything to do with her child.

 

But if this is somehow truly the end for her, then I could care less.  Probably didn't help that I was getting tired of her shitting on Red all the time.  When you are marrying Tom of all people, it's kind of hard to be all "You are dangerous, Red!" about it.  Or blame him for everything, when you were the one that shot Connolly like you did, which is what really brought hell to your life.  Take some responsibility for yourself, Liz.  But I guess it is just easier to make Red the bad guy.

 

At least James Spader was awesome, but that is pretty much the only real positive thing I have to say at this point.

 

I love Edi Gathegi, but I swear, Solomon is so inefficient.  His assignment is to capture Liz, but he keeps doing things that really put her in danger.  And then it takes him that long to figure out to maybe Liv is going to have to go to a hospital.  He really isn't that impressive of a bad guy.

 

I swear, is it just me, or is this show doing more and more music montages, lately?  It's like the writers don't want to bother with dialogue anymore, and just use these to fill up time.  One of these days, there will be an episode with no speaking words, and it will just be forty-five minutes of the actors staring pensively at the camera, being backed up to random old songs from decades ago. 

[preeya]

For the love of God, won't somebody feed that poor baby?

 

I get that Tom doesn't know the first thing about taking care of a newborn, but even the most unprepared of parents knows you gotta feed the thing.  Anyone? Bueller?

 

Full disclosure: I had a placental abruption and it was the scariest thing imaginable. Had an emergency C, my daughter was born 12 weeks early.  I had no issues with the amniotic fluid making its way to my lungs, though. Good thing I had no idea that was even a possibility. It would have freaked me out even more than I already was.

Did you name her Agnes?

[Dowel Jones]

Red goes to what is likely the leader of their mercenary group and asks if he can speak to him and what he said is not known to us. Was it implied later what Red secretly asked of him?

 

He asked two of the mercs to drive the real ambulance as the decoy.  Knowing that Solomon would take the bait, it was a hugely risky move on their part, as, obviously, they physically ran it off the road.  In addition, if he even suspected they were Red's guys, they were dead on the spot.  They had to sell themselves as actual medics.

[12catcrazy]

So, next episode, we see Tom with a cup of coffee and feeding a dog, a stack of school papers on the table, and he's getting ready to leave for work.  Suddenly, Lizzie enters the room still wearing a nightgown and rubbing her eyes and says to Tom, "I've just had the strangest dream...."

[dwmarch]

As to if she's really dead, who knows? Five years ago, I'd have said it's a swerve for certain. But in today's TV, they're killing [Gary Oldman]everyone[/Gary Oldman].

 

Funny that you should mention that because I'm expecting a scene next episode where Reddington turns to Dembe and says "Bring me everyone." Dembe, quite used to Red's unusual requests but quite unprepared for this one, temporizes by asking "What do you mean, everyone?"

Red clarifies: EVERYONE!!!

[Danielg342]

Wow.

 

That went from 1 to "holy cow, what the heck did I just watch"? in five seconds.

 

That took guts. A lot of guts. Literal ones too.

 

Usually, I don't get very shocked with Hollywood. They're predictable, very predictable, sometimes out of necessity but mostly because, as a business, they're not the type to take huge risks. So whenever a particular plotline occurs, there's almost always a 90% chance you know how it will end. Sure, there's room for twists and turns along the way, but almost always they're just minor shocks and you're always going to get the storyline you expected.

 

This? Okay, I'd been paying attention to spoilers...I knew that there was a small, sliver of a chance that Lizzie wouldn't be long for the series. However, knowing that the entire show was essentially built around her character- or, supposed to have been built around her character- I gave it a punter's chance of actually happening. Like any TV show has the guts to kill off its main character.

 

Then, of course, I know that when a show does try to kill off a main character, it usually does so with tons of foreshadowing or because circumstances ensured it had to happen. I figured if Lizzie was going to be a goner, it would have happened after "The Director", since that almost seemed to be the logical conclusion of her character.

 

...but, she survived. Then she started talking about the baby. The one she and Tom were going to have together. Perhaps, in retrospect, the show building up so much that Lizzie anticipated a new life was going to be a sign that she wouldn't be a part of it, but still...knowing she's a central character, it sure felt more like a reboot of the character than a preparation to send her off.

 

So this...Lizzie's death...wow that really got me. I'm still in shock as I type this. I can't believe that it happened. Really. Most times when it comes to Hollywood, I get over it pretty quickly because I know it's just a plot device.

 

...but this time I actually felt for Lizzie and I'm mourning her passing. Sure, she was essentially a useless character, but you'd figure The Blacklist would do everything they can to salvage her knowing that they at least have Season 4 to work with. If the show wanted to get crazy, you'd think they'd wait until the latter half of S4- when they need to try for a S5- to pull off such a risky move, but The Blacklist decided not to wait.

 

So absolute kudos for that. You've got a show in safety yet you're still willing to try new things to spice it up.

 

Wow. Gotta love the moxie. For all the things this show lacks- namely, decent episodic writing- no one can say they don't have guts. Killing off Lizzie was probably the gutsiest move of them all.

 

On a vastly more popular TV show, "the day Lizzie died" would be one of the most talked about moments in TV history. Who knows, it just might be. Certainly I'm calling it the highlight of my TV watching experience, and I've seen my fair share of shockers.

 

Which then leaves...what next? Where does this show go from here? Sad to say...this almost feels like it could be a "jump the shark" moment, because I'm not sure there's anything the show can do that could top what they just did. Sure, they could kill off Red...but does anyone really think that could happen? I suppose if they could kill off Lizzie, they could kill off Red but...actors like James Spader aren't a dime a dozen. You don't lose that.

 

I'll probably still need some time to really think about this moment and let it sink all in before I can really vouch for what the show can do next because...Lizzie's death is a real whopper. It's a moment that deserves every bit of attention and focus as it should. We can talk about the aftermath later.

 

For now, R.I.P. Elizabeth Keen. You've had a good run.

[Danielg342]

Having read all your comments and realizing that I never did think of Lizzie's death as a fake out (even though it already happened once earlier this season), I feel I should weigh in on the possibility.

 

First, I hope the show sticks with it and resists the urge to bring Lizzie back. Too many shows undo their "game-changers" and they suffer as a result (I'm looking at you, The Mentalist), plus it speaks to the show's character that they're willing to do something as big as kill off a central character. Too few shows, especially on network TV, do something that big, so it'd be a mighty big disappointment if they chicken out.

 

Second of all, I wonder if the show doing this is a way to gauge whether or not to bring Lizzie back after her maternity leave. They could see how the show does without Lizzie and then make their decision. If the show's still a modest success deep into S4 (guaranteeing a S5) then the producers may say that Lizzie truly is dead. If the show is on the bubble, they may think differently and bring back Liz to spruce up the ratings. James Spader, when talking to Entertainment Weekly talked about how the show needs to be adaptive, so I'm guessing "Lizzie being dead" is yet another thing the show needs to be adaptive on.

 

Third of all, we could learn Lizzie has a long lost twin. I could get behind that...the actress could come back but Lizzie stays dead. It'd be the easiest thing for the show to do if Megan Boone wants to come back.

 

Lastly, though, above all else- if Lizzie really isn't dead...the only way I could accept it is if Lizzie herself- and only Lizzie- made that call. Lizzie almost always cedes control to other characters with regards to her fate, so it would be nice if- for once- Lizzie was the one in control. I'd be very disappointed if this idea was someone else's, especially if it was Red. That would be more than omnipotent if it were Red who made that decision, not to mention contradictory to Spader's acting, plus Red already has so much control over Lizzie's life...wouldn't it be a nice statement if for once Lizzie told Red "you couldn't take control of this from me".

 

Of course, I still say that I hope this show has guts and sticks with Lizzie's death. Because I'd like to think this show would like to be one of the few that held their ground, instead of being one of the many who didn't.

[nurse1]

As an ER nurse with many, many years of experience it was very hard to separate the real from the unreal....that said the birth of the baby was very dramatic for me..I kept yelling at the tv and not in a good way....LOL.....is Elizabeth really dead?...depends....I like elizabeth Kleen and hope that this is a fake out...but if not how will they get out of this?....oh well..james spader makes everything better...

[Drusilla]

Third of all, we could learn Lizzie has a long lost twin. I could get behind that...the actress could come back but Lizzie stays dead. It'd be the easiest thing for the show to do if Megan Boone wants to come back.

 

 

 

Come on, it's already turned into a soap opera without going further into the All My Children route...!

[ottoDbusdriver]

Come on, it's already turned into a soap opera without going further into the All My Children route...!

 

Or, ...... Ghost Lizzie.   She could hover over Red's shoulder all the time like the Great Gazoo.

[AimingforYoko]

Come on, it's already turned into a soap opera without going further into the All My Children route...!

They played "Having My Baby" with a disco ball spinning overhead during the birth. Ship: Sailed

[Drusilla]

The only thing that's recognizable about this show from Season 1 is the same old faces. From sublime crime to a crime against scriptwriting (and don't go down the plot holes, you'll never find your way out and strange creatures that have never seen light will eat you):

[Percysowner]

I do think Liz will return at some point. If she does, I don't think this is a plan on her part. I think the doctor was compromised by whoever wanted Lizzie. He faked her death on his own and will turn her over to whoever. Then when Meghan wants to come back she will make a daring break out attempt and reach a phone so she can call Red, who will come to save her. In the mean time, Tom will take off looking to kill Solomon on the new show. If that show is working and Blacklist is still around, Tom will be too embedded in whatever he's doing to be with Liz and the baby.

[saber5055]

Except, without Liz, Red has no motivation to continue the Blacklist. He originally surrendered to the FBI and created the Blacklist in order to be close to Liz to protect her. His whole life has been about her.

It seems to me Red's whole life has been about Red, with Lizzie as a side thought. Most of the Blacklisters were people he had agendas with or against, so he traded them to FBI for a takedown while he reaped the benefits of that 'lister being off the books. Yeah, Red could go on several more years without Lizzie, although he won't have that long to work alone since Lizzie is only partly dead and will be back after maternity leave.

 

I'm wondering if Tom will give Agnes to Mr. Kaplan to raise, then go off with Gina to his own show. Just a spec.

Come on, it's already turned into a soap opera without going further into the All My Children route...!

 

If we're going the soap opera route, then when we see baby Agnes again, she will be a teenager. I'm talking two episodes from now. She will be sitting bedside with Mom, who is still in a comma at Mr. Kaplan's apartment. Then, miraculously, Lizzie will open her eyes and rejoin the world of The Blacklist. Easy peasy!

Edited April 16, 2016 by saber5055

[morgankobi]

So, next episode, we see Tom with a cup of coffee and feeding a dog, a stack of school papers on the table, and he's getting ready to leave for work.  Suddenly, Lizzie enters the room still wearing a nightgown and rubbing her eyes and says to Tom, "I've just had the strangest dream...."

The most unbelievable part of that whole scenario is that they would remember the dog. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm wondering if Tom will give Agnes to Mr. Kaplan to raise, then go off with Gina to his own show. Just a spec.

 

I'm still convinced that Mr. Kaplan is Lizzie's mom -- so Mr. Kaplan will simply be raising her grand-daughter.

 

Agnes -- really ?  Does she look like an Agnes ?  Was Agnes Red's mother's name or something ?  It's a kind of old-timey name. And how come Tom had no input in the naming -- he is the only surviving parent ? I'm pretty sure Tom and Lizzie discussed baby names during the adoption process. Remember the baby shower ?  That actually happened.

 

And now when Lizzie actually had a baby of her own in the works, no baby shower at all.  What's up with that ?

[mertensia]

Agnes was her adoptive father's mother's name.

[Happytobehere]

I fully expect Lizzie to return and that's sad because she has been an albatross around the show's neck since day one. Not even in this episode, was the actress able to sell that she was in fear for herself of her unborn child. If a pregnant actress can't sell concern for her child, it speaks volumes for the actress's decided lack of talent. In three years, MB has failed to make Lizzie likable, let alone interesting and worthy of the hoopla and carnage that surrounds her.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Agnes was her adoptive father's mother's name.

 

I guess I missed that in whatever episode it was previously mentioned.  Thanks @mertensia

[saber5055]

I'm still convinced that Mr. Kaplan is Lizzie's mom

Yes, and Mr. Kaplan is that Russian spy woman. That's why no one knows about her except Red. That would be the perfect scenario.

I guess I missed that in whatever episode it was previously mentioned.

You must have dozed off right after Agnes was born since that's when Agnes was named and the reason given. Right before, you know, Lizzie went into cardiac arrest. I don't blame you for missing it.

 

Sure it's crazy that names were never discussed during this time Lizzie was pregnant and while Tom was going to marry her. Note that they never DID get married, so Tom is free now to run off with Gina or whomever. But, tragically for him, without any death benefits, life insurance or social security payments from his dead almost wife.

 

No one has mentioned it, but I thought Baby Agnes was really funky looking, almost monkey like. I know one isn't suppose to comment on a baby's appearance, but that tyke could have been from the Seinfeld ugly baby episode.

she has been an albatross around the show's neck since day one.

This is one of my most favorite sayings ever! Thanks for posting it!

Edited April 17, 2016 by saber5055

[ottoDbusdriver]

You must have dozed off right after Agnes was born since that's when Agnes was named and the reason given. Right before, you know, Lizzie went into cardiac arrest. I don't blame you for missing it.

 

Sure it's crazy that names were never discussed during this time Lizzie was pregnant and while Tom was going to marry her. Note that they never DID get married, so Tom is free now to run off with Gina or whomever. But, tragically for him, without any death benefits, life insurance or social security payments from his dead almost wife.

 

I must have been distracted by something shiny during that bit by Red.  But has Lizzie eve mentioned her adopted mother's name before ?

 

Even baby Agnes won't get any death benefits from the FBI -- since Lizzie was a contractor at the time of her death.    I just don't see Tom travelling the world with Gina on the spinoff with a baby in tow, so he will ditch that baby shortly.

 

And even if Lizzie is alive -- AND -- somehow manages to get the baby back from Tom -- AND -- tries to raise the baby on her own because she is 'done with Reddington' yet again -- AND -- manages to find some other job to support herself and the baby (since dead people can't work for the FBI), we all know that the baby will be abandoned in a motel room like the dog and never be heard from again.  Or maybe the baby will walk up the stairs of Lizzie's house and never be heard from again or even referenced again (a là Richie's brother Chuck on Happy Days).

 

Do they really expect us to believe that Lizzie can go back to helping solve Blacklist cases ? How exactly ?  And why would Reddington continue to feed Blacklisters to the FBI ?  Let alone, having Lizzie being kidnapped or beat up or both every other week like back in Season 2.

[saber5055]

I must have been distracted by something shiny during that bit by Red.  But has Lizzie eve mentioned her adopted mother's name before ?

 

Oh, it's even more obscure than that. Agnes was Keen's adoptive father's mother, so adopted grandmother whom, I'm guessing, she maybe never met. I wonder what her adoptive mother's name was. Single men can't easily adopt any child. Unless that was another Red connection, which I guess it was.

 

My guess is Red will send Agnes off to live under the care of some Tibetan monks in Bhutan or someplace similar. Then, if the series runs long enough, Agnes will reappear as that teen or 20-something in a year or two, a la soap opera time warp.

 

At least the monks will remember to feed Agnes, so there's that.

[misstwpherecool]

Just a theory or two. Did Red arrange for Lizzie's death to get Tom out of her life and/or have Tom protect her baby-with Liz's approval? When Liz is brought out of her coma Red has Liz to himself so to speak-he will be the center of attention and use to Liz to complete his revenge on the cabal. Or maybe after the shootout at the church Liz realizes that's no life for her baby and initiates/plans her death her self. I admit the theory falls apart if you take into account how badly Liz wanted the baby.

 

Do agree this comes back to Mr Kaplan some how? Wasn't Mr Kaplan's son killed in a earlier episode?

[Moxie Cat]

I am 99% sure that Lizzie's death was faked by Mr. Kaplan and the doctor, just based on the episode (although Boone's lack of exit interviews is also telling). Here is why:

 

After Liz first arrives at the nightclub, Red is on the phone. When he hangs up and goes to see Dr. Nick, we overhear Mr. Kaplan saying to the doctor: "...it's a risk to all of us, but can it be done?" This is the key line. Dr. Nick then begins filling Red in on the medical situation, and there is no explanation for what Mr. Kaplan was saying to him. Keep in mind, this is right after she sympathized with Lizzie in the car. After this scene, she admonishes Red for failing to keep them all safe (and, remember her cleaning team's assassination - this also forms her motivation).

 

During the C-section, Dr. Nick notes that Liz has abdominal adhesions, and asks if she's had her appendix removed, which she confirms. This is a random, odd bit of dialogue, and I'm not sure why it's present unless it's information he uses to cause her breathing problem/fake her death.

 

When things go "south" after the birth (maybe due to whatever was in the epidural injection too), Red tells Dr. Nick to tell Mr. Kaplan what equipment he needs. They confer separately in a corner away from Red, and we don't hear what is said. The equipment in the ambulance is obviously what the doctor needs to fake the death. And while he acts choked up when Dembe and Ressler open the ambulance doors, we then see him exit and stand stoically with his arms folded - his demeanor changes quickly.

 

I think only Mr. Kaplan and Dr. Nick know. Both have reasons for sympathizing with Lizzie and leaving Red themselves. I really doubt that Liz is in on what they are doing to her (she would never leave the baby and Tom voluntarily) unless Mr. Kaplan already shared with her a plan to extricate them at a later date. I doubt if Tom knows (given the spinoff) and this entire plan only works if Red doesn't.

 

So unfortunately for the Lizzie haters, I think Boone will be back. Narratively, it's hard to see how the connection between Red and the FBI (basically, a main point of the show) exists without her, at least for any length of time.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I am 99% sure that Lizzie's death was faked by Mr. Kaplan and the doctor, just based on the episode (although Boone's lack of exit interviews is also telling). Here is why:

 

After Liz first arrives at the nightclub, Red is on the phone. When he hangs up and goes to see Dr. Nick, we overhear Mr. Kaplan saying to the doctor: "...it's a risk to all of us, but can it be done?" This is the key line. Dr. Nick then begins filling Red in on the medical situation, and there is no explanation for what Mr. Kaplan was saying to him. Keep in mind, this is right after she sympathized with Lizzie in the car. After this scene, she admonishes Red for failing to keep them all safe (and, remember her cleaning team's assassination - this also forms her motivation).

 

During the C-section, Dr. Nick notes that Liz has abdominal adhesions, and asks if she's had her appendix removed, which she confirms. This is a random, odd bit of dialogue, and I'm not sure why it's present unless it's information he uses to cause her breathing problem/fake her death.

 

When things go "south" after the birth (maybe due to whatever was in the epidural injection too), Red tells Dr. Nick to tell Mr. Kaplan what equipment he needs. They confer separately in a corner away from Red, and we don't hear what is said. The equipment in the ambulance is obviously what the doctor needs to fake the death. And while he acts choked up when Dembe and Ressler open the ambulance doors, we then see him exit and stand stoically with his arms folded - his demeanor changes quickly.

 

I think only Mr. Kaplan and Dr. Nick know. Both have reasons for sympathizing with Lizzie and leaving Red themselves. I really doubt that Liz is in on what they are doing to her (she would never leave the baby and Tom voluntarily) unless Mr. Kaplan already shared with her a plan to extricate them at a later date. I doubt if Tom knows (given the spinoff) and this entire plan only works if Red doesn't.

 

So unfortunately for the Lizzie haters, I think Boone will be back. Narratively, it's hard to see how the connection between Red and the FBI (basically, a main point of the show) exists without her, at least for any length of time.

 

The thing is -- this entire plan was contingent on the ambulance never getting to the hospital (which was only minutes away).  Does that mean that getting stopped by Mr. Solomon was factored into the fake death ?

 

And if Megan Boone isn't doing exit interviews, she's definitely not dead (a là Glen on 'the Walking Dead' whose fake death at the hands of walkers was strung out for 3 or 4 episodes and he also didn't do exit interviews..

Edited April 17, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[misstwpherecool]

I just hope they have a clear plan and don't do it JUST to set up the spin off or wait for social media to send them in a direction. With no clear direction any unresolved issues or questions will become nothing but red herrings. We shouldn't have to factor in the spin off and characters. It should be written with in the series and episodes to observe/figure out what happened.

 

So based on the series alone Mr Kaplan wants Liz out knowing that life no good for  the baby or Liz. Liz wants nothing to do with Red. The doctor likes Liz. Liz trusts Tom enough to start raising and protect their baby. The wild card is does Red put the same priority on getting the baby away from 'the life' along with getting Liz in his corner(no way with child). So far the best suspects in "this" case are Mr Kaplan, the doc and Liz. Red IS the wild card.

[saber5055]

Totally agree with your theory, Moxie Cat, 100 and 20 percent.

The thing is -- this entire plan was contingent on the ambulance never getting to the hospital (which was only minutes away).  Does that mean that getting stopped by Mr. Solomon was factored into the fake death?

Otto, I am shocked that you, of all people, would be using LOGIC and common sense in evaluating this episode.  :-))

Edited April 17, 2016 by saber5055

[ottoDbusdriver]

Totally agree with your theory, Moxie Cat, 100 and 20 percent.

Otto, I am shocked that you, of all people, would be using LOGIC and common sense in evaluating this episode.  :-))

 

Plus, are they going to have a fake funeral ?  Will it be open casket -- because if it isn't, definitely fake death.

[Moxie Cat]

 

The thing is -- this entire plan was contingent on the ambulance never getting to the hospital (which was only minutes away).  Does that mean that getting stopped by Mr. Solomon was factored into the fake death ?

You mean, a plan with obvious logical flaws that would likely fall apart under normal circumstances, and yet, probably magically won't? Have you been watching the Blacklist? LOL

 

Seriously, you're right though - my guess is that the plan might have been for Lizzie to "die" in the ambulance while en route, and then the doctor would have Red and the driver stop somewhere - because why continue to the hospital if she were dead? Mr. Kaplan would take the body at that point from wherever they were. Actually, Mr. Solomon's gang created a worse situation than arriving at the hospital would have, because they could have taken Lizzie's (alive) body and shot the whole crew if Red's team and the FBI hadn't held them off.

 

And not only would a funeral potentially give things away, but I kept thinking: won't Red want to see the body at some point? It's kind of crazy to assume that he wouldn't ever see Liz's body again after leaving the ambulance. (But then, knowing this show, he'll say to Mr. Kaplan at some point, "I can't even bear to see her again," and we can all think, well, that's convenient!)

 

Actually,

according to pics in EW, in two weeks there is a funeral with a casket. No sign of Liz's body, though.

[Drusilla]

I do think Liz will return at some point. If she does, I don't think this is a plan on her part. I think the doctor was compromised by whoever wanted Lizzie. He faked her death on his own and will turn her over to whoever. Then when Meghan wants to come back she will make a daring break out attempt and reach a phone so she can call Red, who will come to save her. In the mean time, Tom will take off looking to kill Solomon on the new show. If that show is working and Blacklist is still around, Tom will be too embedded in whatever he's doing to be with Liz and the baby.

 

Break out? From the coffin like Uma Thurman in Kill Bill? That'd be something else they'd rip off too....

[Johnny Dollar]

It's a set-up to get Red out of Liz's life for good (not that it's going to work). Tom, the doctor, Mr Kaplan and possible Liz conspired to give Lizzie one of those magic TV trope injections that make someone appear to die and be dead for 15 minutes, or whatever timeframe is needed to work within the construct of the story line. That's why Mr. Kaplan threw Red out of the room. There was no reason to have Mr. Kaplan in the ep anyway, since there didn't seem to be any dead bodies to clean up. This would also serve the Dr's wish of getting him off of Red's list of Black Op Docs. When Mr. Kaplan took Lizzie's body-bag wrapped body back to the van, the doc gave her the magic elixir of life to bring her out of it.

BTW - what is this service that allows one to access virtually all communications networks to locate a specific person in mere seconds, and why don't the FBI, or more importantly Red, not know about it? They seem to be setting up Liz's mother to one powerful mother, more so than Red. Very Alias-y of them.

[betsyboo]

In the moment, as I watched, I fully believed that Lizzie died. And James Spader was so sublime that I SOBBED. SOBBED for a character whose death I have been wishing for for three seasons. I didn't cry for her - I cried for the absolute heartbreak on his face. When he went down at the car door, I about broke. I hope he wins an emmy for this episode. I have always liked the story construct of telling someone something without hearing the dialogue so you can focus on the reax. Ressler & Samar - so well done. (My love for this particular way of storytelling comes from GH and the entire episode where the whole hospital finds out Dr. Hardy died. RIP)

 

Ahem. anyway. I loved this episode for the acting (save MB). I hated the ridic of the episode (Having My Baby? For a minute I thought I was watching Glee), but individually, Red, Dembe, Solomon and in particular Mr. Kaplan all shone. Clearly their reax and devastation are what sold me on Lizzie's death. I watch TV 24/7 and have seen every dead-but-not-really trope ever. But I never even CONSIDERED it here. And now, obviously, it's so likely that i'm embarrassed I didn't anticipate it! Kudos to JS. 

 

I want to know more about Mr. Kaplan's relationship with Red. She's the bomb.

 

Someone give Aram a hug.

[Drusilla]

I'm depressed with all this improbable claptrap. If I wanted to watch something that involved law enforcement with ridiculous plots and a massive dose of suspension of disbelief, I'd be watching Castle.

 

What really baffles me the most is what James Spader is still doing hitching his name to this travesty. Maybe the Castle people could offer him more $$$, he'd fit right in, ridiculous old dude in a hat can do things that even the FBI/CIA/Government can't. Maybe he can get a bullet proof vest with "Concierge of Crime" on the back instead of "Writer" and make sure all the crime scenes are solved by him.

 

Off to cry now...

[Danielg342]

I watch TV 24/7 and have seen every dead-but-not-really trope ever. But I never even CONSIDERED it here. And now, obviously, it's so likely that i'm embarrassed I didn't anticipate it! Kudos to JS.

This is why I want them to stick to their guns and not bring back Lizzie from the dead. They did this scene so well that it would really detract from it should it be a fakeout.

I always say if you're going to do something, make it count. They did in this episode- now it's up to them not to blow it.

[Teena]

 

Plus, are they going to have a fake funeral ?  Will it be open casket -- because if it isn't, definitely fake death.

 

When Red left the ambulance, he said to someone (don't remember who) "no funeral home--I want our people to take care of this".   Obviously, because he's in on it, ie: she's not dead.   

 

I think this was a way to keep Megan Boone home for a while with her new baby, plus add some "spice" into the Blacklist.  I've been flirting with quitting this show for a while (and I'm a 30 year James Spader fan).   I just can't take the improbable plot lines and very difficult to follow scripts....

 

Besides all that, Lizzie is brainless.  Who marries a man who lied to her for months and is a known killer?  She is supposedly an FBI agent, the cream of the crop, yet she doesn't realize that perhaps, this guy isn't great husband material?  The concept of "change" isn't really "proven" among killers....

 

I, too, believe that Mr. Kaplan is Lizzie's mother, although for a while, I thought maybe he/she was transgendered (although referring to her as Mr Kaplan would have been very insensitive and not something the networks would have allowed).

 

The whole thing is TOO complicated for a TV show.....

Edited April 18, 2016 by Teena

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Blacklist Postpones The Honeymoon
Because Liz is having our baby. What a lovely way to say how much she loves us.

[saber5055]

Moxie Cat, your spoiler is true. A TV critic I heard on the radio said that is in an upcoming episode that he had already seen. That critic's commentary is the reason I went from thinking Lizzie was all-the-way dead to only partly dead. Then I came here and read most of you guys think she's only partly dead, too. I had been fooled, and had even shed a couple of tears for the dislikable Lizzie! Go figure!

Plus, are they going to have a fake funeral ?  Will it be open casket -- because if it isn't, definitely fake death.

 

They had an open casket funeral for Sophie on Leverage. A funeral that Sophie then attended after her casket was closed. So yeah, it's been done already. And by a show much better written than the unbelievable crapfest writing on Blacklist.

I, too, believe that Mr. Kaplan is Lizzie's mother, although for a while, I thought maybe he/she was transgendered (although referring to her as Mr Kaplan would have been very insensitive and not something the networks would have allowed).

 

Mr. Kaplan could be Lizzie's mom AND dad! How cool would that be? We've never gotten an explanation of why she is MISTER Kaplan, have we? I've watched since S1 E1.

[Dowel Jones]

If nothing else, Reddington should have a bit more spending money in his pocket, as he doesn't have to keep rounding up gear and people to save Liz from the predicament of the week.

[Dittohead]

These are just some thoughts I've come up with after re-watching the last episode:

 

Megan Boone was written out of the show for maternity leave, obviously, and she probably just hasn't decided for herself yet if she's going to want to come back to work or not.  Maybe she just wants to see how she feels about it after the birth and after she has been a mother for a few weeks or so.  She's probably torn between motherhood and career.  So the writers made it possible for either case, i.e., leave her dead or bring her back with a good explanation.  (I watched too many soap operas in my misspent youth.)

 

I have a hunch that Mr. Kaplan is Red's mother.

 

Unlike most of you,  I have always liked Lizzy and I never thought Megan's acting was bad, so I do hope she isn't really dead.

 

[saber5055]

When Red left the ambulance, he said to someone (don't remember who) "no funeral home--I want our people to take care of this".   Obviously, because he's in on it, ie: she's not dead.

Red said that to Mr. Kaplan, and I don't agree that because he said that he is "in on it." He just doesn't want the vulnerable and dead body of his beloved Lizzie to be cut open/embalmed/fooled with by a common coroner or funeral home, especially when he has his "own people" for that. Can't blame him there, especially if one knows what goes on during autopsies and embalming.

 

Red almost falling and needed help to get into the back of his auto tells me he was in shock and completely unprepared for Lizzie to die. If he had been in on it, that little extra scene would not have been necessary, nor would the scenes of his silently saying goodbye to her "dead" body when no one was there to see him do that.

Megan Boone was written out of the show for maternity leave, obviously, and she probably just hasn't decided for herself yet if she's going to want to come back to work or not.

This makes the most sense than any other speculation, and i'm going with it too. I'd never heard of this actress before this show, so don't have a clue how dedicated she is to her craft, or if she has a working spouse ... or any spouse for that matter!

 

ETA: Turns out Megan Boone had a baby girl yesterday, this time for real. Named her Caroline, not Agnes. (I wonder if Agnes is a name in Spader's pedigree.) Father is Megan's fiancé, Dan Estabrook, an artist.

Edited April 18, 2016 by saber5055

[Julia]

Thing is, though, Megan Boone has more money than God. Isn't it possible she could be taking advantage of her pregnancy to leave gracefully and not have the internet talking about how much she sucks at her job every week?

 

I mean, it'd be pretty cruel for her to have the ratings go up with her dead just to plummet if she came back. Besides,

they've written out Tom for the new series.

[Drusilla]

 

 

 

ETA: Turns out Megan Boone had a baby girl yesterday, this time for real. Named her Caroline, not Agnes. (I wonder if Agnes is a name in Spader's pedigree.) Father is Megan's fiancé, Dan Estabrook, an artist.

 

Agnes is the name of Daniel Cerrone's grandmother. Cerrone wrote that episode.

[JasmineFlower]

Well, I'm thinking she's dead with a good deal of hoping she's dead. I've been wanting her to be dead for over a season and a half, so why should I think now, oh this is sad? I'd be totally disingenuous. I've been wanting this for a while, think it helps to free the show up creatively to not have to come up with ways to incorporate her earnestness that feels largely out of place at this point. She's been tempered lately and that's great, but they started out with a flawed characterization where's she's concerned. She came on as a profiler, that wasn't working so well and they turned her into a super agent who could like take down bad guys and fight with precision, that happened overnight, not after some serious FBI training. They've been trying to fix the character and help the actress from the start, but she doesn't go toe to toe with James Spader well and it's been a clear mismatch since the first season. And I'm sick to death of her constant guilt trips on Red like she has nothing to do with her own situation, did he tell you to call yourself Masha and go to the Russian Consulate? No honey, that's all you and so many other things were as well. But her go to is to blame Red and it's gotten so, so old.

 

So, I realize she might be alive, but at this point, hoping for a long while they'd write kill off her character, I can't go back on that now, I wouldn't mean it at all.  Now, a few things give me pause, especially that I may have missed it, but Solomon was sort of there at the end when the blockade was set up and then he was not. And I'm suspicious of that. I'm still unclear on who hired Solomon, so there's that. And also, Solomon constantly attacking the envoy when he had to know there was a possibility of Liz being needed emergency medical attention with the caveat to the team to keep her alive makes zero sense. So, yeah, I know. It starts adding up to unlikely if I'm to assume Solomon isn't an incompetent idiot and nothing suggests that he is any major way. So yeah. I'm hoping for this show and the spinoff that Liz is a character we can put in the past, but I've got doubts.

[12catcrazy]

Frankly, I'd be really, really, surprised if Liz is really dead.  Has any NETWORK tv show killed off a major character other than when the actor playing said character has wanted out of the series?   Others on this board have said that Megan Boone hasn't been doing any exit interviews, which seems to be in contrast to other actors who are leaving tv shows who are all over the place giving interviews about why they are leaving, so my bet is on she's coming back, as honestly, how many well-paid actresses quit a show because they've had a baby?  

[jelaine]

 

as honestly, how many well-paid actresses quit a show because they've had a baby?

Linda Hamilton with Beauty and the Beast.

[saber5055]

Solomon was sort of there at the end when the blockade was set up and then he was not.

 

This made me think: Why does Solomon want Liz anyway? What's the deal? Maybe he just wants to take her on a date or something. Has any purpose for her capture been explained? Solomon had Dembe and beat him up for a while, but I don't really know the why for that, either. Someone hired Solomon to capture Lizzie, but ... for what? Maybe she has an inheritance coming, or an estate in Russia left in her name?

 

I guess I drift off during most of this show.

[Dowel Jones]

It's the dog.  He wants Lizzie back for his revenge.

[betsyboo]

Frankly, I'd be really, really, surprised if Liz is really dead.  Has any NETWORK tv show killed off a major character other than when the actor playing said character has wanted out of the series?  

Mrs. Landingham, The West Wing. Roy Montgomery, Castle. Teri Bauer, 24. Henry Blake, MASH. James, Scandal. Harrison, Scandal (IIRC, he was dead before his police run in that cemented his exit.) Rosalind Shays,, LA Law. ( :-)  )

[12catcrazy]

Linda Hamilton with Beauty and The Beast - wasn't that back in the 1980s?  .   

 

Anybody more recently? 

[betsyboo]

Linda Hamilton with Beauty and The Beast - wasn't that back in the 1980s?  .   

 

Anybody more recently? 

I don't know that Heather Morris (Glee) counts as "major." but she did leave.