S32.E09: It's Psychological Warfare

[Hanahope]

I'm not sure why they didn't just split their votes Scot and Jason.  I presume none of them knew who the other 3 guys were going to vote for, so it doesn't make sense that they voted for Debbie to protect themselves in case Julia flipped.

 

I haven't liked Tai all that much the last couple of episodes.  He's always talking about how good and virtuous he is, how much he cares about things, but then his actions do the exact opposite.  Frankly, if you have to talk about it so much, me thinks you protest too much.

[Nashville]

At this point, with Tai blabbing nearly everything regarding the Super Idol two TC's ago, does everyone in the non-SII group understand what happens if the idols are combined?  Or are they still in the dark?  And do we know what happens if/when the pieces to the Super Idol are played?  

Depends on how skilled the rest are at parsing out Tai's comments and actions over the last couple of TCs:

• First Tai sloshes the frijoles on the SI, which probably alarms AND confuses many not in the know. Hell, *I* knew what he was talking about, and he was confusing ME.
• Tai then backtracks with his "Or so I've been told, which makes me wonder about the people telling me this..." disclaimer, which could be relatively effective - it distances him from direct knowledge, and presents a palatable alternative that someone was simply screwing with Tai.
• This most recent TC, however, Tai outs his HII - which, if the others think about it, also outs Tai as having direct knowledge after all.

The question then becomes: who remembers exactly what Tai was rambling on about a couple of TCs ago...?

[truthaboutluv]

I'm not sure why they didn't just split their votes Scot and Jason.  I presume none of them knew who the other 3 guys were going to vote for, so it doesn't make sense that they voted for Debbie to protect themselves in case Julia flipped.

 

 

I think the rationale was that if they did the split between Scott and Jason and then Julia flipped as Aubry and Cydney believed she would, it would have been 4 votes for Cydney (Scott, Jason, Tai and Julia) versus 3 for Scott and 2 for Jason or vice versa, as it would only be Joe, Michelle, Aubry, Cydney and Debbie voting for Scott or Jason. In that instance, the assholes don't even have to use the super idol to be safe. Aubry of course wanted Julia gone for this very reason but since she had immunity, they decided that Debbie, who was more of a loose cannon in refusing to see Julia's playing both sides, was more of a potential problem down the road and so they went with her. 

 

I actually do think it might have made more sense for them to all just vote for either of two assholes, which would then make it 5 votes to 4, if indeed Julia flipped. Yes the super idol could then be played but the super idol is only possible if both players agree to give their idol. All they had to do was say to Tai, "listen if you play it for Scott (or Jason) then you have no idol left" and from that point, the numbers are tied with their three and Julia versus Michelle, Aubry, Debbie and Joe (assuming they got out Cydney). Now they had to ask Tai and the other asshole was if they really trusted Julia who just proved how easily she could flip, to stay true to them. Or Tai could save his idol for himself and try to win immunity as he'd done and use it for himself when he didn't win immunity and try to get further in the game that way.

 

It might not have worked but this is the same Tai who promised to use his idol for that one woman and didn't. He may act all conflicted and naive but I don't buy he's completely innocent and clueless. Again, I think the biggest thing the bigger alliance was forgetting is that the super idol is only possible if BOTH players give their idols and there is no guarantee they would no matter how much posturing they did. Right now it's a scare tactic and they're allowing that scare tactic to make them play scared. And if they did use it, well it would suck for Cydney but again it would mean it was now gone and they were all playing at a level field with no scary idol. 

 

Unfortunately I'm not sure they have that option this week unless they can flip Tai or Julia gives up on her plan of trying to latch onto the assholes to the end. Because unless one or both of these things happen, it's a 4-4 tie against whoever does not win immunity. I don't see the assholes playing the super idol for Julia if the other four go after her but that will still only work if Jason, Scott, Tai and Julia don't vote as a group. Because then it would be 4 votes for Julia and 4 for whoever she and the other three voted for. I don't see the assholes changing their votes on a re-vote. So really, the best chance the alliance had was last week and more importantly if Julia hadn't flipped and they could have voted 3-3-3. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[ghoulina]

This irritated me just as much if not more than their antics.

Joe, why did you sabotage the fire?
Scot, why would you sabotage us?
Joe, it's a game. 

This man was a professional athlete who does not understand sportsmanship or the nature of a competition?   Khaleesi is correct, he is a big baby. 

Beside my point but Joe and Scot were never aligned!  It would have been just as ignorant had he said it to Cydney but would make a little sense in his numbskull way of thinking.

 

Exactly! Joe and Scot have NEVER, not once, under any circumstances, been on the same side of things. Why on earth should Joe not try to take him out? Is he not supposed to play the game? Is he supposed to just lay down and let those thugs win the game? I don't understand that line of thinking at all, and definitely do not equate screwing up camp conditions for EVERYONE the same as trying to vote someone out. 

[laurakaye]

Exactly! Joe and Scot have NEVER, not once, under any circumstances, been on the same side of things. Why on earth should Joe not try to take him out? Is he not supposed to play the game? Is he supposed to just lay down and let those thugs win the game? I don't understand that line of thinking at all, and definitely do not equate screwing up camp conditions for EVERYONE the same as trying to vote someone out. 

YES.  In Scot's brain, yes.  Because Scot is big and intimidating and egotistical and a bully and his friends have the Super Duper Idols and he knows with 1000% certainly that he is going to either win this game or gracefully accept 2nd place to his good buddy, Bounty.

 

Gosh, I want him blindsided so bad it hurts my brain to think about it.  I do not recall ever wanting anyone gone so bad and that includes Dan Foley and anyone with the last name Hantz.  So thank you, Survivor, for showing me that my reserves of hatred run even deeper than I thought.

[truthaboutluv]

Exactly! Joe and Scot have NEVER, not once, under any circumstances, been on the same side of things. Why on earth should Joe not try to take him out? Is he not supposed to play the game? Is he supposed to just lay down and let those thugs win the game? I don't understand that line of thinking at all, and definitely do not equate screwing up camp conditions for EVERYONE the same as trying to vote someone out. 

 

Yeah that was the moment I think I really screamed "fuck you" at the television. The sheer audacity of that ignorant oaf. They were all proudly declaring a Brains member would go because "well they're clearly not with us." And what was it his asshole in arms said, "no one likes the geeks..." Um well Joe was a former Brains member which would mean Joe was one of those likely going anytime. But how dare he not be okay with that and just wait around to be voted off and he and the other Brains actually work together to save themselves. The sheer audacity of them and so they should have expected they'd be punished for that. Wow...just wow.

[needschocolate]

But man, that Scott/Jason shit show of smugness at the vote was painful to watch! They must not have been raised properly because good parents/teachers/friends would have knocked that shit right out of them at an early age.

 

I was disgusted watching them, but I couldn't help but wonder if I would feel the same if those antics would have been done by someone I liked and the ones without idols were Jason and Scot.  I would like to believe that I would be a better person, but I may not have been so appalled at that grand show of obnoxiousness if the ones being hurt by it were the ones who have been bullying everyone and who put out the fire and hid the tools.  

 

At this point, with Tai blabbing nearly everything regarding the Super Idol two TC's ago, does everyone in the non-SII group understand what happens if the idols are combined?  Or are they still in the dark?  And do we know what happens if/when the pieces to the Super Idol are played?  Will two more idols be hid at camp?

 

In addition to what Nashville posted above -  As far as we heard, Tai just said there was a super idol, and didn't say anything about combining two idols to make it.  The others may think that it was like Tony's idol - a separate idol that is played after the vote, so they may have thought that any regular idols held by Scot or Jason would be played at the last tribal since Scot and Jason were the minority,  They may have thought that they could flush out the idols and get rid of Debbie.  

Edited April 19, 2016 by needschocolate

[Gweilo]

I wonder if the girls are going to try the "If you go to the final with KyleJason and Scott, none of us will vote for you" threat with Tai. 

 

He has the kind of personality that might actually fold under that threat.

[KimberStormer]

Winston9-DT3, on 17 Apr 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

I totally agree with playing for your own win and hating the super idols.  But I don't understand this part-

 

Say Michelle knew how the idol worked.  She's close to Julia, who's somewhat playing double agent.  I would think Julia would know who the boys were voting for.  So then for everyone but Cydney on the "no idol" side, they have a play that burns the idol AND spares themselves.  They lose an alliance mate is all.  

 

But I think Aubrey is smart enough and unemotional enough to have played that way, if her edit is right, IF she'd known how the super idol could be played.  Though it's odd the men advertised it at tribal.  The others could've put the plan together at tribal, though maybe it'd be too hard with a few whispers.  Though if they can get Julia to vote with them next week, they'll have the same chance.  

 

Yes this is a way out depending, but it is very dangerous indeed I think.  (Some have suggested this is what Penner should have done in Cooks--told Yul that yes he would vote Nate, to get the target off himself, but voted for Yul anyway, taking out Nate and the idol.)  Thinking about the strategy here really ties my head up in knots tbh and I might not be thinking it through very well, but it still seems to me to be a different order of dilemma than any other situation in Survivor.  They can't really know if the target is really Cydney--the boys might be lying to Julia, or Julia might be lying to the girls, or the boys might change their votes on a whim--but they do know for sure that none of the boys can possibly go home.  It's not even like Ciera and Katie risking rocks, because then there was the 33% chance of Tyson going home and the whole game flipping.  It's like going to rocks except everyone you want to vote out is immune.  For each person in the alliance, it seems better to vote for someone in their alliance rather than the boys, even if you're not flipping to vote with the boys, just like this tribal--the boys win even without flipping people to their side.

 

Ultimately if they trusted Julia enough that they could be sure it was Cydney and were calculating with Spock-like lack of emotion based on that then they should have split the vote.  Otherwise there's just always so much incentive to not risk it.  And now that option is gone.

 

That's how it seems to me anyway.  I've been writing and rewriting this for two days where I try to make up hypothetical situations and I get lost in them.  Maybe I am wrong.

[Guest]

Maybe I've got the numbers wrong, but how could they split the vote when it was 5 to 4?  Even if they thought Julia was voting with them, it's 6 to 3, so a split vote means a 3-3-3 result and a revote with no idol burnt, right?  

[KimberStormer]

Yeah I mean if they were sure of Julia (so much that they'd be willing to risk their game on flushing the idol, sacrificing Cydney), it would be 3-3-3 and they could split the vote (and flush the idol without sacrificing Cydney).  It is an open question whether that would work to flush the idol, but I was looking at the tiebreaker rules on a Survivor wiki and in the past when they've revoted, no idols can be played.  If that's not true then there's just no way to beat the super idol at all.  My assumption is it would go like:

 

3 for Scot 3 for Jason 3 for Cydney -- Tai plays super idol for Scot -- revote for 3-3 tie -- 2 for Cydney, 5 for Jason, Jason goes home.

or

3 for Scot 3 for Jason 3 for Cydney -- Tai does not play super idol -- revote -- 1 for Cydney, 5 for Scot, Scot goes home.

 

If that's not right, and you can play the idol even after revotes, I hate it even more than I did before.

[NutMeg]

Maybe I've got the numbers wrong, but how could they split the vote when it was 5 to 4?  Even if they thought Julia was voting with them, it's 6 to 3, so a split vote means a 3-3-3 result and a revote with no idol burnt, right?  

3-3-3 would work if no idol was played, as on the revote 5 vote from the split-vote alliance et one from the S/J/T alliance. I don't think idols can be used in the second round.

 

Of course for that to work Julia would have needed to be trusted to vote for one the guys...

 

(or am I misunderstanding your post?)

[truthaboutluv]

If that's not right, and you can play the idol even after revotes, I hate it even more than I did before.

 

I am pretty positive that you cannot play an idol on a re-vote. That's why having the idol is great but it's also the strategy that goes into how one plays it. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[laurakaye]

I wonder if the girls are going to try the "If you go to the final with KyleJason and Scott, none of us will vote for you" threat with Tai. 

 

He has the kind of personality that might actually fold under that threat.

I am wondering if they'd also try this on Julia, because she seems to think that joining forces with the Ugly Tattoo Brigade is her ticket to winning.  And she'd probably be right, if her alliance mates weren't such horrible people.

 

If I'm on that jury, and the F3 is Bounty/Lurch/Tai or Julia...who gets the money?  A giant smug bully, his smug bully sidekick, or the person that joined them at the end, thinking it would be a sure win?  I have no idea.  All three options are horrible.

 

I know the end game is to win a million, but I also want some nobility in the game.  Play the game, don't simply align yourself with awful people to win...especially this season, where Bounty and Lurch revealed their personalities very early on with their treatment of Alicia (although Tai/Julia probably aren't aware of this).

Edited April 19, 2016 by laurakaye

[peachmangosteen]

I am wondering if they'd also try this on Julia, because she seems to think that joining forces with the Ugly Tattoo Brigade is her ticket to winning.  And she'd probably be right, if her alliance mates weren't such horrible people.

They could try it with Julia but I don't think she'd fall for it. I think she'd probably believe there's no way they'd actually vote for the dick twins and would see it as an empty threat. Tai is more likely to be susceptible to it, but I don't really see him going against the boys now. Although he's very flaky, what with voting for Jason 2 TCs ago, so who knows what he'll do.

 

Play the game, don't simply align yourself with awful people to win...especially this season, where Bounty and Lurch revealed their personalities very early on with their treatment of Alicia (although Tai/Julia probably aren't aware of this).

Based on what some booted contestants have said they must be at least somewhat aware of it. It's been said in boot interviews that the other tribes could hear/see how they treated Alecia during challenges. And we had Neal referring to her as Blondie after she was booted.

Edited April 19, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[ghoulina]

I know the end game is to win a million, but I also want some nobility in the game.  Play the game, don't simply align yourself with awful people to win...especially this season, where Bounty and Lurch revealed their personalities very early on with their treatment of Alicia (although Tai/Julia probably aren't aware of this).

 

It really comes down to on what kind of game each individual likes. I respect all mindsets, but I'm with you. I'd rather see someone busting their butt and scrambling, and not just hitching themselves to a group where they're "better by comparison". I want to see someone I really respect in the end. 

[Alapaki]

I can see scenarios where the SII would not be so all-powerful, or where it would at least still involve a good deal of uncertainty.

 

Ultimately, after all, it's use depends on cooperation between two players, where one player is voluntarily giving over something of great value (his own traditional HII) for the benefit of another player (i.e. giving that player a SII), in the hope that that other player would stay aligned.  Or, conversely, that other player has to hope that the first play will voluntarily hand over their own traditional HII.  The degree of uncertainty depends, I think, on when the rules say the HII must be transferred/combined (i.e. before of after the votes are read).  

 

Of course, given this particular group of players, and Tai in particular, the power of the SII is much more certain.  That is, I'm not sure any of the non-SII-aligned players would reasonably expect Scot, Jason or Tai to defect from each other, at least not until possibly the last minute, if at all.  

 

Indeed, my one hope coming out of last week was that Tai would tell Jason and Scot "thank you very much for the SII, now go fuck yourselves."  So, to hear that he immediately gave the HII back to Jason was extremely disappointing, if not entirely surprising.  

 

I'm starting to think that "Tai" isn't his real name, but rather the Vietnamese version of the acronym smh.

[Special K]

Ultimately, after all, it's use depends on cooperation between two players, where one player is voluntarily giving over something of great value (his own traditional HII) for the benefit of another player (i.e. giving that player a SII), in the hope that that other player would stay aligned.  

 

Exactly,  This is why I fear for Tai.  That he will let his idol be used in good faith and then be sacrificed by the Two Stooges.

[violet and green]

How different it would all be if Neal hadn't taken home his idol as a souvenir - if Audra* had it and could use it to pull Tai over to the Light Side, with its own superidol option - and then blindsiding those two thugs.

 

*that's weird - I've been seeing her name as Audra lately and it didn't click, that's not her name, it's Aubry (why do they all have to have a weird little spelling variation though)

Edited April 20, 2016 by violet and green

[Zuleikha]

I don't think the problem is the Super Idol at all. I think it's like always with HIIs--how good or how bad it is depends entirely on which player gets it. If Alecia or Cydney had gotten the idol or if Neal had given Audra his idol, we'd be looking at very different scenarios right now. Unfortunately, Tai is willing to work with a-holes despite his claims to moral virtue, and the result is that a-holes are very difficult to get out of the game. But the check of needing two players to be willing to burn their HIIs on one vote is a pretty reasonable check, IMHO. 

 

I think the best move for the non-a-hole alliance is to work Tai's conscience. He seems weak willed given that he actually extinguished the fire, but if they can make him feel sufficiently guilty about supporting Jason/Scot, maybe they can pull him free. After all, he would still be the only person in his alliance with an HII, and the non-a-hole alliance doesn't seem that tightly knit.

[Guest]

I wonder if Tai and Jason would really burn both their idols to save Scot.  

 

Are we all calling Aubry Audra now?  ; )  Maybe she should have found her tribe's idol before Neal did.  You snooze, you lose.  

 

I hate all super idols, regardless whose hands they're in, even when Yul had one.  I don't even like when a player sails to the end unchallenged with a regular idol, even a player I like.  I want to watch an even playing field and when people don't burn out the idols, it's just too much like a free pass.  A lot of reality shows award advantages to the stronger players, and I'm not a fan of it.  Win a challenge in Project Runway and have immunity the next week.  Win a leg on TAR and get an Express Pass.  I'd rather they give the laggards a leg-up than the winners.  

Edited April 20, 2016 by Guest

[peachmangosteen]

I think the best move for the non-a-hole alliance is to work Tai's conscience. He seems weak willed given that he actually extinguished the fire, but if they can make him feel sufficiently guilty about supporting Jason/Scot, maybe they can pull him free. 

 

I think that's really the only play they have: try to make Tai feel bad about helping dicks. It might work because Tai is very gullible/weak-minded. But he also has a cutthroat-ish side so it may not work.

 

I'm trying to decide if I only hate the SI because people I hate are benefiting from it or if I'd still hate it if the women were the ones who had it. I don't really know. 

 

I'm not super against the HIIs as a whole, but I don't particularly like them and I do really wish they'd do a season without them again. It might be very interesting.

[laurakaye]

I think that's really the only play they have: try to make Tai feel bad about helping dicks. It might work because Tai is very gullible/weak-minded. But he also has a cutthroat-ish side so it may not work.

 

I'm trying to decide if I only hate the SI because people I hate are benefiting from it or if I'd still hate it if the women were the ones who had it. I don't really know. 

 

I'm not super against the HIIs as a whole, but I don't particularly like them and I do really wish they'd do a season without them again. It might be very interesting.

The idea of the Super Idol is interesting, because of the amount of strategy and trust involved...first, you have to find an idol, then you have to figure out who else has one if you want to combine it, and then you have to decide if it benefits you to hand over your idol to save someone else.  I am not a fan of this season's Super Immunity Idol, and I hope it doesn't show up ever again.  However, if any of the women had the SII and didn't act like arrogant mouthbreathing saboteurs, I think I would be a slightly bigger fan.  As it stands, I hate it and will continue to hope against hope that somehow, Scot and Kyle are sent packing despite their best-laid plans.  Tai is the only hope.  I really hope someone tells him to not count on the jury handing him the cash just because of who he might be sitting with in the F3.

 

Has it been discussed at all if another idol was placed due to Neal taking his with him?

 

I long for a season of no idols and a good old fashioned Final 2.

Edited April 20, 2016 by laurakaye

[henripootel]

I'm not super against the HIIs as a whole, but I don't particularly like them and I do really wish they'd do a season without them again. It might be very interesting.

Maybe, but neeeeever gonna happen.  For one thing they'd have to figure out a way to edit pagongings to they're not so obvious.  For another, it'd reduce the surprises in voting so greatly that even Jeffy would blush to slap '#blindside' up there.  I don't hate the HIIs in general but I will say this for them: at least they require some strategy to use effectively.  To use the Super HII, you just have to be awake.  

Win a leg on TAR and get an Express Pass.  I'd rather they give the laggards a leg-up than the winners.

I think the worse TAR has to offer is the 'reverse' thing, where one team can force another team to go back and do an extra challenge before they can move on.  The effect is usually to punish the shit out of teams already struggling, so it often just calls the race for them.  I think the Super HII is like that, and they might as well just pass out a production note that says 'Tai and the idiot twins are the final 3, everybody else take a breather'. 

I think that's really the only play they have: try to make Tai feel bad about helping dicks. It might work because Tai is very gullible/weak-minded. But he also has a cutthroat-ish side so it may not work.

If Tai has a brain in his head, it won't work.  People may think badly of Tai for his actions but I'll bet they fucking hate the idiot twins.  Much as I dislike the Super HII, Tai'd be fool not to take advantage of it, and win.

Edited April 20, 2016 by henripootel

[truthaboutluv]

I am fine with the hidden immunity idols and I think they were a good addition to the game and probably did give the show a new life and excitement as it got older. What I am not in favor of are those ridiculous gimmicks like the super idol crap this season, the Tyler Perry one which could also be played after the votes were read, etc. I am just not in favor of anything that allows someone to save themselves after the votes are read. To me that defeats the entire purpose of the show and the game. Because even with hidden immunity idols, as someone said, there is still strategy that goes into how it is played.

 

Because people have played it thinking they're going home and they were wrong because the other side predicted they would and then they've wasted an idol. People have gone home with idols on them because they truly did not see the blindside coming and never played it. So the hidden immunity idol doesn't eliminate one still having to strategize. But if someone can save themselves because they've clearly seen they got the most votes, that's just crap. 

[Zuleikha]

To use the Super HII, you just have to be awake.

It's more complicated than that. To use the Super HII, you need to convince another player to have a solid enough alliance with you that it's believable you'll both burn your idols on one save AND either actually do it or risk a probable bitter juror member.

 

What's happening now is really the worst of possible outcomes with three HIIs planted. Not only is the Superidol contained in the hands of Hantz types who are cruel and want to make camp life miserable for anyone who's not them, but the third idol got taken out of the game (and the usual rule AFAIK is that if a player leaves with an HII, that HII is not re-hidden). On top of that, Scot/Jason/Tai  are a small, minority alliance working against a loose-knit majority alliance that has many cracks.

 

Given that the HIIs are divided among three tribes, it would be likely either that there wouldn't be two idol holders sufficiently trusting/close to the other to be willing to combine or that the competing alliance would at least have a normal II that they could use to help make a vote split against the Superidol (or potentially woo away one of the other idol holders).

[KimberStormer]

Winston9-DT3, on 20 Apr 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

 A lot of reality shows award advantages to the stronger players, and I'm not a fan of it.  Win a challenge in Project Runway and have immunity the next week.  Win a leg on TAR and get an Express Pass.  I'd rather they give the laggards a leg-up than the winners.  

 

Well, I believe this is the whole point of the HII, to give a leg up to the laggards, interrupt Pagongings.  And it's worked relatively well, I'd say.  Even when the losing alliance doesn't have an idol, the majority is usually paranoid about the possibility and splits the vote, which makes flipping much more possible.  I like the standard-issue HII very much, I think it is a perfectly balanced piece of the game and is the material condition for many of my favorite moments in the show.  If they asked me, "KimberStormer should we have a 'classic' season with no idols?" I would say "No way!"

 

But I do hate the Tyler Perry idol, and it doesn't have anything to do with who has it.  I basically like Yul and Tony, but I hated the idol in their hands and I think Cooks and Cagayan are indelibly stained with it.  It's true the Super Idol requires the trust for two people to spend their idol to save one person--but the whole problem with the Super Idol, in my analysis, is you never need to play it at all!  You can simply dismantle the majority alliance with the threat of it until you are in the majority, so this trust issue need never come up.  And then when you get to that majority position, you can use your idol as a regular idol to further guarantee making it to F4.  Humbug!

[Guest]

I agree, idols are needed to avoid total Pagonging and they do often help an underdog.  I wish they had a better way of meting them out than giving them to challenge winners (the strongest people, often) or by hiding them (because often the Russells and Robs who are already big enough threats tend to find them).   But then again I'm the one complaining that Audra (LOL) needs to find her own idol, not inherit Neal's by right.  

 

I guess I wish the show had more Kelley's... underdoggish but scrappy and resourceful enough to find idols.   But I don't want the show to meddle with who finds them, either.  If it's Rob, Russell and Kyle, better that than producer intervention.  

[blackwing]

I wonder if the SuperIdol was designed with secrecy in mind.  IOW, maybe the producers didn't expect the guys to announce, hey! we have this! The only way that powerful idol makes sense is if have to have the SI in your possession before the voting, and you play it after the votes are read (which would be the step up from the HII getting played after the votes but before they're read).  So, you're sitting there with the (hidden) SI, the opposite alliance votes for you, you pull it out and negate the votes, next guy up goes home.  But that works optimally only if the other alliance doesn't know you have the weapon.  Instead it becomes a shell game to figure out who has the SI.  And it's just not strategic as a game rule to allow the SI to be passed after the votes are read, so if that's allowed, then it's a rare Survivor rule fail.  My impression is that the Survivor producers want to introduce elements that require ninja strategizing, not a free pass.  That's not interesting or hashtag worthy at all.   

I am not so sure they were designed with secrecy in mind.  When Tai found the first idol, many of us here were commenting that it appeared impossible this season to find an idol without anyone else knowing.  We speculated that perhaps TPTB wanted everyone to know who had idols this season.  First you had to find the clue at eye level in the tree.  Then you had to dig and find the box.  Then you had to attach that stick tool to the top of a very long tied together pole.  Then you had to find the tall tree with a very obvious box hanging from it.

 

I am amazed that Tai and Neal were able to find their idols without any interruption.  I guess there are many hours in a day and you can't always be watching everyone all the time. but still.   That really tall tree looked like it was not that far from the beach.  Anyone walking along the beach might have noticed a tall moving pole.

 

Then of course, the only way to get a Superidol is to talk to others and find out who else has one.  At least a small group of people would have to be in on the secret of how it works.

[Special K]

I am not so sure they were designed with secrecy in mind. 

 

I agree.  It seemed that they were hidden in such a way as to encourage or to force (though maybe not require) collaboration.

[henripootel]

To use the Super HII, you just have to be awake.

It's more complicated than that. To use the Super HII, you need to convince another player to have a solid enough alliance with you that it's believable you'll both burn your idols on one save AND either actually do it or risk a probable bitter juror member.

That's what you need to get the Super HII, and what happens afterward.  To use it effectively (once you have it), all you need to do is wait to hear Jeff say who's voted out, and then speak up if you don't like it.  No planning, no wondering if you should keep it or give it to one of your alliance-mates, no chance you'll waste it by playing it for someone who didn't actually get any votes.

 

I guess you do have to build an alliance so that it's a straight vote rather than a revote, but that's pathetically easy to do if your Super HII-holding alliance says 'first two people who vote with us get to live'.  If your Super HII alliance is down 3:5 in the voting, now you're up 5:3, and the pagonging begins.  

I am not so sure they were designed with secrecy in mind.

I think they're conflicted.  My guess is that production would love it if everyone kept it secret then used to for a HUGE BLINDSIDE.  But they can't stop people from using it as a threat and pointedly *not* using it, which is more boring but probably smarter.

Edited April 21, 2016 by henripootel