S03.E16: Paradise Lost

[OakGoblinFly]

Ugh!

 

So much bad in this episode .... I had to fast forward through nearly all of the Daisy-Lincoln scenes because . . .zzzzzzzzz!

 

And really Daisy!  You're on a mission with a deadline and you you pick that time to have a discussion about your boyfriend's ex-girlfriend?  

 

Thank goodness for Ward - while the storyline poteinal is wasted - he sure is pretty to look at (I think Brent Dalton is the acting hero this season).

[emma675]

I think I'm confused--I thought Giyera could only move metal? I didn't think it was all inorganic material.

 

I did love May taking him down with a kick to the balls. That seems like such an easy move to make with fights and yet you rarely see that on tv. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Agents Of SHIELD Takes A Trip Into The Past
Gideon Malick's shocking secret is revealed: he used to dress like he was in A Separate Peace.

[Cekrypton1]

I assume Aussie almost Inhuman James will become JT James?

[Miles]

I don't quite get why they wouldn't give the guy the Terrigen crytal. If all inhumans are fuckups until they are turned, to some extend, because they feel that emptyness, that just seems cruel. He didn't seem to be any more of a loose canon than most other inhumans we've seen. Plus now that the Terrigen is in the food chain he'll probbly turn eventually anyway and then he'll have a grudge instead of being thankfull to you.

The Hydra stuff was okay. Interested to see where it goes, but not that thrilled at the moment.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Miles

[TVSpectator]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing but JT James/Hellfire isn't an Inhuman.

[Raja]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing but JT James/Hellfire isn't an Inhuman.

Some may treat comic books as scripture but as long as the rights haven't been sold off to FOX then they can change anyone for his new MCU identify and origin story

[TVSpectator]

Some may treat comic books as scripture but as long as the rights haven't been sold off to FOX then they can change anyone for his new MCU identify and origin story

I guess they can change him for this show. I am not personally one of the comic book purists who feels that everything must be the same as the comics, but if they are introducing someone/something from the comics I wouldn't go to great lengths to reimage the charater/item.

[catrice2]

I am tired of there always being a traitor in their midst!  Is that every episode? 

[Maverick]

 Yes.  They recruit from the same place as CTU and NCIS.

[Bishop]

And really Daisy!  You're on a mission with a deadline and you you pick that time to have a discussion about your boyfriend's ex-girlfriend?  

That's why I can't take Daisy seriously.  She acts more like a petulant teenager than a would-be leader.  Lincoln works so much better away from her because she comes off too young emotionally.  I also don't like her "Huh, I have super powers, aren't I cool?" attitude.  I think it was last episode when May or someone said something like "You're not invincible," and Daisy's reply was something like "Well, I'm willing to test that theory."  She's a little too cocky.

[wmdekooning]

Lincoln continues to be boring as hell.

 

Every time he appears on screen, for a few seconds I think he is Ward/Brett Dalton and get confused. I also had the same problem with the actor who played "Will" on the Hydra planet.

 

Gideon seemed to know that they were basically providing a sacrifice to keep the Hive alive – why didn’t they just use hobos?  Seems kind of silly to weaken your organization by sacrificing one of your leaders occasionally.

 

My thinking from the episode, in particular the discussion with Dr. Whitehall, he describes it as a "faith". You don't send a heathen/non-believer on a quest/pilgrimage/sacrifice.

 

Puzzling how they have these outfits designed to prevent any and all attacks, but Giyera doesn't even bother to wear a cup.

 

I spar regularly with several individuals who feel no need to wear a cup in a martial art that emphasizes kicking. Go to a barbershop often enough, you're going to eventually get a haircut...

[Raja]

I think I'm confused--I thought Giyera could only move metal? I didn't think it was all inorganic material.

I did love May taking him down with a kick to the balls. That seems like such an easy move to make with fights and yet you rarely see that on tv.

We can do some head canon. We have seen Mr. Giyera in action more than SHIELD has. Everything he has moved has had the density of metal. Then there are corporate concerns involved with giving him Mini-Mag powers.

It would be a trip if characters could refer to DC or X-Men as comic book characters.

The kick to the balls seems over used to me .They are rarely unprotected except in sports where the rules allow you concentrate elsewhere

Edited April 15, 2016 by Raja

[TVSpectator]

Every time he appears on screen, for a few seconds I think he is Ward/Brett Dalton and get confused. I also had the same problem with the actor who played "Will" on the Hydra planet.

Lincoln is pretty boring and IMO he slows everything down. Even when he is in a fight scene. Also I do think that Ward was a way better character than Lincoln.

 

My thinking from the episode, in particular the discussion with Dr. Whitehall, he describes it as a "faith". You don't send a heathen/non-believer on a quest/pilgrimage/sacrifice.

That might explain why they would send the brother Malick, back in 1970, but why would they send 4 (possibly 5) people who were from NASA/Air Force that totally seem to not know anything about the ritual sacrifices and/or IT/SquidWard existance? Yeah its possible but IMO it just raises more questions.

Edited April 15, 2016 by TVSpectator

[TVSpectator]

We can do some head canon. We have seen Mr. Giyera in action more than SHIELD has. Everything he has moved has had the density of metal. Then there are corporate concerns involved with giving him Mini-Mag powers.

It would be a trip if characters could refer to DC or X-Men as comic book characters.

In Season 1 of Jessica Jones they were able to slip in a Cyclop reference and also a Namor reference without it being too overt.

As with weither or not DC exists as a comic book/movies/shows in the MU seems to be debatale. For obvious reasons the DC characters don't actually exist, while (at least in MU 616) their cultural is supposed to be the same as ours. Although, if you read Deadpool (well look at some of panels online) it seems that the Marvel characters don't know about them.

Edited April 15, 2016 by TVSpectator

[HawaiiTVGuy]

Maybe that is the weakness of Hive's powers...he takes on the personalities and personal issues of each person he inhabits, thus his obsession with SHIELD and his need to get revenge on Gideon.

[dwmarch]

I was able to track down some rare footage of Giyera using his powers for good. In fact, this may be the moment where it all went wrong:

[ahisma]

That might explain why they would send the brother Malick, back in 1970, but why would they send 4 (possibly 5) people who were from NASA/Air Force that totally seem to not know anything about the ritual sacrifices and/or IT/SquidWard existance?

Well, the whole idea was to bring Hive back to Earth, and he was stuck on another planet. Maybe they hoped that sending him enough astronauts trained in different sciences would give him the knowledge to be able to escape—look how well Jemma did with her knowledge base. But she knew enough from studying the monolith to be able to put together all the pieces, while Will et al didn't. It was a decent idea, though, sending through people with an education beyond being a titan of industry.

[rab01]

I just caught up with this one and I have to agree with y'all - it was bit flat.

Beyond that, I'm annoyed that Lincoln's "deep dark secret" was just a DUI. Seriously? You cannot tell me that the Aussie North Dakotan is sober all that often himself.

 But as many people pointed out, the worst part is SquidWard killing Malick's daughter. I can stand my heroes sometimes being stupid but not my villains. Any villain that sabotages his own plans that badly does not deserve a thousand year program to bring him back from exile. Kill the elder Malick, marry the daughter -- it's the fucking simplest, most obvious, most useful way to get immediate control over Malick's entire network ... sigh 

[mac123x]

Well, the whole idea was to bring Hive back to Earth, and he was stuck on another planet. Maybe they hoped that sending him enough astronauts trained in different sciences would give him the knowledge to be able to escape—look how well Jemma did with her knowledge base. But she knew enough from studying the monolith to be able to put together all the pieces, while Will et al didn't. It was a decent idea, though, sending through people with an education beyond being a titan of industry.

 

It might be that a different faction of HYDRA got control of the monolith / portal thingy.  Like Whitehall's group decided to study it more scientifically, and got NASA roped into it.  Given that Malick's group used to have the whole monolith in previous flashbacks, and they only had the 5 small chunks in Season 2, I can buy that as head-canon.

[blueray]

I am among those who found this episode for the most part boring. Mainly the stuff with zombie-ward and the hygra stuff. I could care less about Meleck's daughter or her death. And was bored with the flashbacks.

 

I liked the stuff with the team such as May's fight with the telekinesis guy. And surprisingly the stuff with Daisy and Lincoln was good as well.

[TVSpectator]

It might be that a different faction of HYDRA got control of the monolith / portal thingy. Like Whitehall's group decided to study it more scientifically, and got NASA roped into it. Given that Malick's group used to have the whole monolith in previous flashbacks, and they only had the 5 small chunks in Season 2, I can buy that as head-canon.

Didn't Rosalind mentioned that some mysterious rich benefactor came and brought the Monolith to NASA? Which sounded like she was saying that it was Malick.

[redfish]

So basically the show is implying that Hydra was a centuries old cult and not an organization created in WWII seen in the movies? Why is this show being inconsistent? Are they aware of the movie's version or this is just retconning?

[ChelseaNH]

Retconning -- the Red Skull's Hydra was an offshoot of the "true" Hydra organization.

[Raja]

An offshoot that lost their faith, as many have in the last century, in bringing a second coming of their Inhuman god, So stupidly exposed themselves thinking that Nazi Germany was stronger, as they were superior to the rest of mankind. We are getting hints from Agent Carter that less public wings of Hydra, like the Soviet Leviathan and Americans like the Mallick family actively fought against the known wing which acted as a Nazi special force or at least remained secret. Many of those then exposed themselves during Project Insight thinking that SHIELD had developed the technology for them to strike. I doubt if many of the mooks know of the Hydra religion at this point. After all we had Grant Ward "rebuilding Hydra" as a new emerging head with no knowledge whatsoever of the underlying faith.

[Rocket]

The power manipulation of metal objects of a minimum density seams to be the power not telekinesis. Thus the confusion on it's limitations. More like a weaker Magneto power with less fine control. I believe most comic metal manipulators start out with roughly this level of control. Of course Magneto is so powerful he can manipulate blood and objects with tiny amounts of iron like clothing with small amounts of it.

Yep the Hydra plan has always been we are the superior humans type of thing as well as recover their god. As there standard operation is to set up cells to gain power and are based on using criminal means often it no surprise that many heads don't care about the religious source and most members have no clue on the recovery of the god. The normal member does have a master race type thing going though. Hydra does seam to have a superior human bias from way back so the temptation to join up with the Natzi's must have been strong.

[teenj12]

The power manipulation of metal objects of a minimum density seams to be the power not telekinesis. Thus the confusion on it's limitations. More like a weaker Magneto power with less fine control. I believe most comic metal manipulators start out with roughly this level of control. Of course Magneto is so powerful he can manipulate blood and objects with tiny amounts of iron like clothing with small amounts of it.

Yep the Hydra plan has always been we are the superior humans type of thing as well as recover their god. As there standard operation is to set up cells to gain power and are based on using criminal means often it no surprise that many heads don't care about the religious source and most members have no clue on the recovery of the god. The normal member does have a master race type thing going though. Hydra does seam to have a superior human bias from way back so the temptation to join up with the Natzi's must have been strong.

In "Maveth", I  believe Daisy confirmed that Guyiera is "telekinetic". Although they've never mentioned the inorganic-limitation before. Pretty odd.

[Ceindreadh]

When Guyiera realised he could control Coulson's hand, was anybody else disappointed that we didn't get a "stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself!" scene? Just me then? :-)

[TVSpectator]

When Guyiera realised he could control Coulson's hand, was anybody else disappointed that we didn't get a "stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself!" scene? Just me then? :-)

 

Dear God yes  (yeah, that came to mind as well. FYI, if you want there is this poster on Reddit that does these parody synopsis for all of the MCU and even he put that reference in his synopsis as well). 

Edited April 24, 2016 by TVSpectator

[John Potts]

Just what are HYDRA teaching their kids these days? When your HYDRA high ups turn up at your home it's never a good thing. And since when do HYDRA see "cheating" as bad? They're all about sneaking and being underhand - I would have thought that if you've made it to the top of the HYDRA ranks that if you weren't willing to cheat then you're simply too dumb to survive. It would have made more sense if Malick's daughter was instead "Trophy Wife No. 4" (the previous three trophy wives having died of mysterious ailments when they started asking too many questions) because I would have thought he was acting entirely consistently with HYDRA principles. SquidWard did humanity a favour in eliminating somebody too dumb to live (though I admit she was easy on the eyes - if this wasn't aimed at a family audience then it would be FAR creepier to possess her and then use her body to seduce her dad, because that would have everyone EWWWing. But maybe I'm just sick!)

 

The Bullpen You could, I don't know, sedate Giyera? Blindfold him? Shackle him lying face-down? Come on, people!

 

Looked like they intended to take more precautions, but Coulson yelled stop when he saw Giyera was starting to manipulate the stuff around him. Of course, they should have sedated him BEFORE bringing him onboard the Bus. And not monitoring him was criminally idiotic.

 

Daisy wasn't much better in her plot either. If you want to persuade somebody to tell you what they know, perhaps don't start by ignoring their request not to approach? And why exactly was it necessary to welsh on the deal anyway? Terragen stuff is all over the world, he's probably going to be able to get hold of some anyway and now he'll be PISSED at you (and there's no saying whether he'd survive terragenesis process anyway - only now you've made him an enemy, he's sure to survive and return with powers!). Which is why I have to agree with Bishop on this:

 

Bishop That's why I can't take Daisy seriously.  She acts more like a petulant teenager than a would-be leader.

 

 

...she needs to learn that to win friends and influence people (and unless she was planning on beating the information out of him, persuasion was her only option), then don't start by ignoring what he says. And perhaps keep the personal stuff to when you're safely back at base and not in the middle of a mission (not that it was a particularly juicy secret in any case, although understandable that he didn't want to bring it up).

 

 

Monty Ashley (Recap)  That murder hand seems like it could be an antagonist for at least one episode.

 

Yes - go all Evil Dead (only probably with less tree rape).

Edited April 25, 2016 by John Potts