Season 1 Discussion

[alias1]

Oh my!  The vicar is tarnished.  I thought Sidney and Gloria were smokin hot.  

 

The whole mystery involving Johnny's family was kind of strange.  I'm glad that snobby inspector got what was coming to him, though.  And Johnny inherited the nightclub!

 

This episode was so good with the interpersonal relationships.  I was even sympathetic to Amanda and I haven't liked her much.  It looks like Sidney and Hildegard will work things out (I'm glad).  I wonder if he will eventually tell her.  She looked very beautiful in this episode. 

 

This show just keeps getting better and better and has amazing depth for a mystery show.

[elle]

Husband commenting on my TV viewing "Ah, Mystery, any good?"  Me: Not bad.  Too little Dickens tonight

 

Then I had to explain who Dickens was.  :0)

[magdalene]

Who says the Vicar is too good to be true...if he was he definitely fell off the pedestal in this episode.

 

I am sad there is only one episode left and then we will have to wait til 2016 for more.

[Writing Wrongs]

I didn't care for this episode. I actually didn't bother finishing it. Partly because I didn't care for the London setting and mainly because Sidney disappointed me so much. I don't even know why he's a vicar.

[truther]

I thought it was . . . odd.  Some bits I loved.  Geordie trying to deal with London, for example, was hilarious.  ("Shut up!")  Ditto how things back home went quickly to hell.  And the storyline of Sidney trying to come to terms with who he is and who he loves was, also, very engaging.

 

Overall, however, the ep seemed disjointed.  It was as though it had been badly edited for American TV and every scene had had the first 5-10 seconds cut out.  The nightclub was the most depressing place on the planet.  Why would anyone set foot in there?  Why did the boyfriend keep getting beaten up?  So many odd scenes and relationships. 

 

They took the London detective thing too far, IMHO.  Should have just made him incompetent/lazy, and had the final scene end with Geordie being congratulated for his work. 

 

I don't mind Sidney as a tarnished/fallen/naughty vicar.  In the context of this show it makes things more interesting.  He's ultimately a good guy, it seems, even though he's now lied openly to both Amanda and Hildegard (and to pretty much everyone else).  I guess that's a sign of how well they've created his character that I keep wanting to cut him some slack.  I like him, flaws and all. 

[Gin and Tonic]

Geordie and Hot Vicar on a Bike were adorable at the nightclub.  Geordie with his arm over Sidney telling Sidney he loved him?  The best.

 

Unfortunately I find Sidney's love life the weakest aspect of the show and wishing they spent less time on it.  I'm don't mind seeing him become tarnished - he has demons - but I don't care one whit that he may have hurt Hildegarde.  Mostly because I find Hildegarde about as interesting as wet toast. 

 

I don't know if it's because her absence for two episodes gave less opportunity to develop the character, or because it feels like the actress is sleepwalking through her scenes, but I just do not care. I'm more sympathetic to Amanda than others, but I don't think she and Sidney make a good love match (even though their friendship is delightful to watch).

 

Which leaves me in the show for Hot Vicar, Geordie, Dickens, and scenes of the Hot Vicar biking through the beautiful countryside.  Biking and Dickens scores low, but Hot Vicar and Geordie scores off the charts, so this episode did fine by me.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Gin and Tonic

[pcta]

Really Sidney's "fall from grace" was relatively minor (he is neither married nor engaged). Being human can only improve his empathy for his congregation.

[ComeWhatMay]

Leonard's Mrs. Maguire vs. Dickens & "It was Hell" -- to a WWII vet no less -- had me in stitches. As did the kind Hildegard presenting Ms. Dee's album to the man who went home with her -- setting him apart from other conquests apparently/smart lady/gave him a bed to wake up hot in -- the night before. Loved Green's Geordie reacting to Sidney's confession. "Bloody Hell" "Sly Old Dog" Man-child Guy trying to drink the hard stuff & failing -- stick to daiquiris -- & Amanda's reaction when Gloria made her smoked cigarette analogy.

It wasn't cozy -- London is not cozy, of course. I too missed the Grantchester setting. Glad we're home for the final episode of this series.

It did have a sort of disjointed feel to it -- erratic -- but it fit the setting to me. Johnny & Jenn will spruce up that dingy nightclub in no time.

Sidney has demons to vanquish before he can truly give himself to another person such as Hildegard -- his war damage & what could have beens regarding Amanda. There are things he has to come to terms with about the war & find a way to live with & it would appear he must let go of his first love too. Hildegard already had one lying, drinking & cheating husband. She won't want another. Sidney's literally in a dark place -- loved the symbolism at the end of the episode.

I'm pulling for Sidney to "live as he has never lived" & "look forward." I don't mind the stumbles on the way as the war damage is quite realistic & should not be portrayed as easily surmounted & especially when the stumbles are as hot as his hookup with Gloria. I just loved how happy Gloria was the next morning -- heh. I would keep the carton that comes with that cigarette myself. If it were 2015, I think Amanda would too.

[magdalene]

This was probably the weakest episode for me so far. And not because Sidney slept with the night club singer, he is human and flawed and I find him interesting and likable even when he screws up. The writing of the murder plot made little sense to me - it was so awkward. And just not up to par.

[attica]

Well, I can't say I much cared for the trope of the drinking-smoking-singer of color as the Siren who leads our Hero into Temptation, seeing as how that's kind of not subtle. On the other hand, they made a hot couple, and being in her bedroom gave us some more shirtless JN.

"It was Hell"

 

The line reading on this cracked me up.

 

As somebody who recently packed in her collection of vinyl, I felt Sidney's pain/relief.

[LeGrandElephant]

General question: do Anglican vicars do confession like catholic priests? sometimes people tell Sydney things and seem to think he'll keep them secret but he tells the police. He doesn't even agonize over it. Is that allowed because it wasn't in the context of an official confession, or do Anglican priests not have that code of confidentiality at all?

[caligirl50]

I love this show and I LOVE James Norton!!!! I bought the books and the dvd (it hasn't come yet).

I love flawed characters.  Can you imagine if Sidney was the perfect vicar?  Yawn. I love the clothes and the drinking, smoking, jazz etc. depict this moment in time/place so well.

I am a costume drama freak and nothing stood out for me that read false in terms of the production/locations..but that's me.

I cannot wait to see how they will end this first season...we got a glimpse but still. 

[I-Kare]

As Gloria said, "We all do things we aren't proud of sometimes, that's what makes us human."

[beadgirl]

I don't know what it was like back then, but today Anglicans and Episcopals technically have the rite of confession, but it is rarely done and not nearly as big a deal as it is in the Catholic Church; rather than a sacrament strongly encouraged and provided weekly to everyone, I believe you have to make a special appointment for it, and I don't think very many avail themselves of it.  Also, in the Catholic Church at least, the seal of confession only applies if the discussion is explicitly a sacramental confession, not just a regular or even private conversation.  And if it is a confession, not only can the priest not reveal it (the penitent can), he can't even say that there was a confession.  Whether these rules apply to the Anglican Communion, I don't know.  (N.b., I'm Catholic but my husband is Episcopal, so I could be misremembering what he told me.)

 

The mystery was a little disjointed, but I liked the bits of character development for all involved.  Gloria's mannerisms bugged, though.  And Sidney, stop lying!  I think that's almost worse than his other missteps/sins.

[dubbel zout]

Really Sidney's "fall from grace" was relatively minor (he is neither married nor engaged).

 

Also, it happened in London, so it's not as if he had to do a walk of shame in front of the entire town of Grantchester.

 

I thought the mystery was a little disjointed, too. I'm glad we got out of Grantchester for a bit if only because it gets disturbing to have so many horrible murders happen in one small town. I know you have to hand wave that as a viewer, but still.

 

I got my JD from L&O University, but in the States, at least, I think most discussions with a cleric have some degree of privilege. Of course, each denomination has its own rules, as  well.

[attica]

I got my JD from L&O University

 

If you could see me, dub, you'd see cartoon hearts exploding all around my head.

 

According to wiki, however, the priest-penitent rule doesn't apply in Britain.

[alias1]

The murder mystery was definitely the weakest part of the show.  It seemed like they had to work a story around a nightclub singer in particular and being in London in general.  Good point about Sidney's indiscretion (if you can call it that, he's not attached) taking place outside of Grantchester.  

 

I usually don't like personal relations to be the central plot in a mystery series, but this show is handling it so well, I love it.  This is just me, but I don't see why he has to confess to anyone.  That always seems to make the person confessing feel better at the expense of the person being confessed to.  I'm not saying he won't tell Hildegard.  I just don't think he needs to.  I love that he's a complex character.

[izabella]

Good point about Sidney's indiscretion (if you can call it that, he's not attached) taking place outside of Grantchester.

He's not married, but he is attached.  Hildegarde thinks so, and so does he since he lied to her about it.  I also assume the 1950's English, and especially vicars, weren't supposed to be running around having drunk casual sex with people they aren't married to.  If Sidney is counseling others on that, then he's being a hypocrite.  I get it that he regrets it, but so do many of the other people who are told they're going to Hell if they have sex before marriage.

 

I usually don't like personal relations to be the central plot in a mystery series, but this show is handling it so well, I love it.

 

I'm starting to not love it.  Too much relationship stuff is overtaking the mystery.  I prefer well-written mystery to half-assed mystery with a heaping helping of sex/romance.  There's plenty of soap opera on tv, but few well written mysteries.  First few episodes, and we already have the vicar embroiled in a love triangle, and now casual sex where he's essentially cheating on and lying to his actual love interest.  Give the soap drama a rest!

Edited February 16, 2015 by izabella

[zxy556575]

My only disappointment in Sidney is that he treated Gloria so shabbily -- banged her and then wouldn't even look her in the eye the next morning. It wasn't her fault.

 

I agree that the episode was hard to follow. I'm not sure I even know why Georgie and Sidney were in London in the first place. I guess people kept beating on Claudie's boyfriend because they worked for her father and he told them to?

 

I was a little bored overall and sorry to see the Johnny/racial prejudice topic raised again. The scene in the funeral parlor between Johnny and his dad was painful to watch.

[elle]

I agree with the comments that the mystery part of this episode was weak or lacking.  Besides too little scenes of Dickens, the thing that get bugging me were the anvils  dropping about "brothers and sisters".  After Claudie is killed, Sidney's sister comes to see him at the vicarage and has some line about 'can you imagine loosing someone and not knowing what happened?".  I thought that she must have had those kind worries with Sidney off in the war.  Then later when Johnny is talking to Sidney at the funeral, Sidney says something about his sister thinking he would have the right words.  While often times the best thing to do in that situation is to listen, I couldn't help thinking that, in this case, Sidney should stop thinking like a vicar and more how would he feel if he lost his sister.

[dubbel zout]

According to wiki, however, the priest-penitent rule doesn't apply in Britain.

 

The more you know!

 

I also assume the 1950's English, and especially vicars, weren't supposed to be running around having drunk casual sex with people they aren't married to.

 

This part of the story reminded me of when the minister in my parents' church was unmarried when he first arrived. Everyone, even the more conservative among the congregation, felt sorry for him trying to date, because they knew any relationship(s) he had would be somewhat public. He ended up marrying a minister's daughter and everyone was happy. But there were some awkward months until that happened.

 

the thing that get bugging me were the anvils dropping about "brothers and sisters".

 

Sidney's sermons are also a bit too on the nose a lot of the time. I get they're also wrapping up the episode, but they're still pretty anvilicious.

Edited February 16, 2015 by dubbel zout

[dargosmydaddy]

Well, I enjoyed it. Sidney and Amanda's friend-chemistry is made of awesome, I continue to love the Sidney/ Geordie friendship, and Leonard is just made of comic gold. I thought Sidney sleeping with Gloria was an interesting choice in terms of story, particularly since Sidney seemed sooo drunk/ out of it at the time. If he was a girl, I think there would be posters (not me, necessarily) saying he was taken advantage of.

[magdalene]

I liked Gloria and Sidney was definitely a dick to her. I understand why he acted that way but still a gentleman should always be a gentleman. Are Sidney and Hildegard "officially" seeing each other? Obviously she has hopes for a permanent relationship with him and also obviously he felt very guilty for stepping out on her. It seems we missed a couple of steps in their relationship. 

 

Oh, Sidney. What would Father Brown make of you...

[photo fox]

He's not married, but he is attached.  Hildegarde thinks so, and so does he since he lied to her about it.

Agreed. He seemed to think he had cheated on Hildegarde, and so did Geordie. So I take that to mean the parties involved believe the relationship is exclusive, even if it's not spelled out officially within the show.

 

This is just me, but I don't see why he has to confess to anyone.  That always seems to make the person confessing feel better at the expense of the person being confessed to.

Regardless of my thoughts above, I actually agree with this. What will be gained? It's not like this is a pattern of behavior, or anything he will repeat. And they are "just" seeing each other. (Plus, he was crazy-drunk, to the point that yes, if he was a woman...) I have more of a problem with him lying to Hildegarde about Amanda, because that feels more serious to me.

Agree with everyone that the murder plotline was confusing and overly contrived. I spent the first 40 minutes thinking that Justin was Mr. Johhny's Dad's son with a white woman, while Johnny and his sister were from another relationship. I'm not sure why I thought that, but the people I was watching with thought the same thing. We all independently said at the same time, "wait... is that not his kid?"

I guess my first inkling was what Justin said Claudie was "like a sister" to him. I was taken aback, but I thought it was one of those racial "we pretend we're not family" things.

[alias1]

He's not married, but he is attached.  Hildegarde thinks so, and so does he since he lied to her about it.  I also assume the 1950's English, and especially vicars, weren't supposed to be running around having drunk casual sex with people they aren't married to.  If Sidney is counseling others on that, then he's being a hypocrite.  I get it that he regrets it, but so do many of the other people who are told they're going to Hell if they have sex before marriage.

 

If he's attached I think we skipped a few scenes in this show.  He likes Hildegard, certainly enough to feel guilty about his actions, but I wouldn't call them attached.  He also still likes Amanda from what I saw at the nightclub.

 

I don't think Sidney has ever been judgmental to anyone.  He isn't likely to be counseling others against premarital sex.  From what I've seen he's just good at listening and making others feel better.  I like that he's not a perfect human being. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by SierraMist

[caligirl50]

I think the sermons Sidney gives are more for himself (especially in this episode) than for the congregation, but that is me.

Gloria knew he was drunk and harboring a love for Amanda but opened the car door for him anyway.  Should she have taken him to his hotel?  Maybe.  But she liked what she knew of him and god knows, he is a looker (as is she, by the way)!  So maybe she figured, why not? 

[Lillybee]

The actress who played Gloria is one hell of a singer. I floved her vocals.

[attica]

The arrangements were cool, too. I liked the slow jam of "Hot Time in Old Town" in particular.

[ComeWhatMay]

If he's attached I think we skipped a few scenes in this show.  He likes Hildegard, certainly enough to feel guilty about his actions, but I wouldn't call them attached.  He also still likes Amanda from what I saw at the nightclub.

I had the same feeling watching, but then I remembered the photo of Hildegard that she mailed to Sidney & saw on his desk just after her return. As a viewer I knew that it was Sidney's attempt "to get on with things" as counseled by Geordie & that just before a photo of Sidney & Amanda was in the same frame, but Hildegard wouldn't know that... I can't blame her if she saw her photo sitting there along with the figurine she gave Sidney & made certain conclusions regarding Sidney's feelings for her. I think her actions since -- waiting for him at the vicarage, for example -- have been under the impression that they are courting & she is his "girl." Hildegard is beautiful & by all appearances, very kind. Sidney, hurting as he is, would welcome her affections. But when you are as traumatized as Sidney is & still actively in love with another, its really not right to jump into a relationship with someone else -- regardless of what family have told me of the era. "Getting on with things" is not always possible right away & Geordie does not have all the information to offer that advice through no fault of his. Thinking of who her husband was, I can't say Hildegard's disloyal for looking to move on already. If Hildegard's still wearing her wedding ring, though, she should know it is too soon (I think I caught sight of it in the preview for next episode).

As noted above, Sidney could have slut shamed Jennifer (like chiding her about smoking when he smokes -- heh) after finding out she & Johnny were lovers or gone all big brother on Johnny, but he didn't. He didn't judge Isobel Livingstone for her out of wedlock pregnancy by Arthur "Evans," rather reminded the hopeless Arthur of his parental responsibility. Sidney is supposed to follow a certain standard of conduct -- which drunken casual sex with hot singers does not align with -- but its not one he is foisting on others in a hypocritical way by my estimation. Rather, he listens & tries to understand. 

Sidney's decision making was definitely impaired, but when he woke up at Gloria's it became clear -- to me at least -- that he didn't feel violated by Gloria, but ashamed of himself (as the church bells peeled, no less) -- which to her credit, Gloria saw & understood. I would have copped an attitude with Sidney as he got in my car, came to my place & my mood before he opened his mouth was so very good. Sidney also acknowledged reluctantly -- endearing modesty -- to an impressed Geordie that it was good sex. 

 

The person I worried for after that was Amanda actually:) Seriously, if she has smoked Sidney's cigarette as I think she has & moves ahead with marrying Guy (upper class marriage in 1953), I wonder what Guy would think of her not being a virgin. I will be interested to see whether the actress is back next series. With what I have seen of Guy's temper & temperament, he is a prime candidate for wife beater & when Johnny was bravely going at his Dad I kept thinking of Guy & envisioning what that marriage would be like for Amanda. We know Guy's mother walked out. Why? We've never set eyes on Guy's father. Why? Lots of what I see & don't see there is setting alarm bells off.       

[Amelie06]

I don't love that Sidney is the "hit it and quit it" type. I get why he would be disappointed in himself for having sex with Gloria, but I think that the way he treated her was awful.  He all but called her a vile temptress as he was running out of the room. Not cool. I would prefer him to be upset about the hook-up, but without being so rude/cold.

 

I did, however, love seeing our hero hook-up with a black woman. I'm black and I rarely get to see black women as love interests on Brit tv shows. I just need the next one to be treated with a little more respect.

 

I also must have missed when Sidney and Hildegarde found wuv twu wuv.  It just seemed like they were hanging out with no real commitment or understanding. For the most part, their relationship seems to be based on Hildegarde randomly showing up at his house. I would get Sidney's Hildegarde-related sadness more if he wasn't obviously and actively in love with Amanda. That being said, it was totally effed up when he lied to her. He is making things way more complicated than they need to be.

 

I do love this show. James Norton is hot as hell, crazy ombre hair coloring aside, and he is a fantastic actor. I've decided that this show isn't really about the mysteries. This isn't about a vicar solving crimes. It's about a sad man trying to figure out his life while solving crimes as a sideline. That's why the "mysteries" can be underwhelming, unlike a Poirot or Marple where the main characters never change.

 

Did anyone think it was kind of funny the way Gloria was speaking? Everything about the way she spoke screamed, "I'm a lady who sings the blues. I'm addicted to the bad kind of love and I've been hurt more times than I can count."

[izabella]

I think her actions since -- waiting for him at the vicarage, for example -- have been under the impression that they are courting & she is his "girl.

 

What IS Hildegarde doing at the vicarage?  Does she live there now?  Does she live somewhere else?  Is there a hotel nearby?  To me it seems like she lives at the vicarage because she's always there.

[truther]

As noted above, Sidney could have slut shamed Jennifer (like chiding her about smoking when he smokes -- heh) after finding out she & Johnny were lovers or gone all big brother on Johnny, but he didn't. He didn't judge Isobel Livingstone for her out of wedlock pregnancy by Arthur "Evans," rather reminded the hopeless Arthur of his parental responsibility. Sidney is supposed to follow a certain standard of conduct -- which drunken casual sex with hot singers does not align with -- but its not one he is foisting on others in a hypocritical way by my estimation. Rather, he listens & tries to understand. 

That's what I like about him in a nutshell -- that he listens, observes, compares to his own experience, and tries to understand.  He's imperfect and recognizes and accepts his own imperfections.  He's not going around belittling people.  He tries to help others while helping himself.  He has his own personal reference points for most of these life issues he's dealing with.  It's one reason I love how the show keeps getting people to toss these put-downs at Sidney.  They'll say things like "but then again, what do you know about love?" whilst completely unaware that in fact, Sidney probably knows more than whoever's saying it to him. 

 

Did anyone think it was kind of funny the way Gloria was speaking? Everything about the way she spoke screamed, "I'm a lady who sings the blues. I'm addicted to the bad kind of love and I've been hurt more times than I can count."

I liked your whole post but this cracked me up.  Seriously, I think the reason I didn't feel more sorry for her during the ep was because she was such an over-the-top caricature.  (And I mean that in a good way.)  How else could her hook up have ended?  When you're the broken-hearted lady who sings the blues, doesn't your story have to end badly?  Isn't that in the Constitution somewhere?

[dargosmydaddy]

 

I spent the first 40 minutes thinking that Justin was Mr. Johhny's Dad's son with a white woman, while Johnny and his sister were from another relationship. I'm not sure why I thought that, but the people I was watching with thought the same thing. We all independently said at the same time, "wait... is that not his kid?"

I thought that as well. I think Mr. Johnny's Dad did refer to Justin as son at one point in the beginning, which was clearly meant as just a way some guys call younger guys "son," but way to be confusing, show.

[magdalene]

I wonder if Sidney is not sub-consciously  sabotaging and/or stalling any relationship with a woman that might lead to marriage.  As a Vicar he is expected to marry but because of his war trauma he may see himself as a bad bet? We know Amanda's father would not approve of any marriage between them but I think if Sidney had proposed to Amanda she might have gone against Daddy's wishes. But Sidney by keeping quiet never gave he the choice. Now he is getting closer to Hildegard who in many ways would make a good vicar's wife and he has already done something that may lead to her distancing herself from him were she ever to learn the truth.

[zxy556575]

I didn't know what to make of Guy this episode, either. Suddenly he "knows all about" Sidney's feelings for Amanda and has decided to become territorial and engage in some metaphorical dick-waving? He seemed altogether clueless previously, what with palling around with Sidney and asking him to perform his and Amanda's marriage.

[Cranston]

Man, I don't give a rat's patoosie about Guy.  He's unpleasant and uppity and what Amanda sees in him is beyond me.  Is his station in life, his money that important to her?  Must be.  They deserve each other.  I don't care for odd looking, dippy Hildegarde either so I'm waiting for a new woman for Sidney....a sweet, warm, peppy, fun lovin gal. 

[attica]

I don't give a rat's patoosie about Guy.  He's unpleasant and uppity and what Amanda sees in him is beyond me.

 

Eh, he's just a plot device.

[ComeWhatMay]

I didn't know what to make of Guy this episode, either. Suddenly he "knows all about" Sidney's feelings for Amanda and has decided to become territorial and engage in some metaphorical dick-waving? He seemed altogether clueless previously, what with palling around with Sidney and asking him to perform his and Amanda's marriage.

It was quite something to see the mask of joie de vivre drop & to see Guy call a face-to-face meeting on his turf without Amanda present, but I came to see it as a shift in approach.

Amanda had lied about where she was going that night & somehow Guy found out/knew that Johnny's sister died. Somebody placed a phone call to Guy? Perhaps Amanda's father got the call, Sir Edward called Guy & said the aristo equivalent of "Wake up dude." Rather than safely ensconced watching Othello, Amanda was in a jazz club in the bad part of town with Sidney having a lovely time prior to the murder -- with Sidney even caressing her face & looking deeply into each other's eyes as Guy walked in. The subtle, cunning approach wasn't working clearly. Guy needed to put Sidney in his place in a more direct way.

One of the many things I like about this show is that I see echoes of the characters as we see them now in those who came before. Sadly seeing echoes of Stephen Staunton's behavior in Sidney's lying to Hildegard, Guy in Archie & Daphne, William & Lillian in the Sidney, Amanda & Guy dynamic. Lillian's "all smiles as she kicks you in teeth" way showing up in Guy after the engagement party debacle. Guy asking Sidney to perform his marriage to Amanda with the visibly uncomfortable Amanda sitting there. Amanda specifically noted that she tried to discourage Guy from doing so (I would not expect her to tell Guy she's in love with Sidney, but I do think she made it clear it wasn't on), but Guy pressed on & asked anyway. Watching Guy stew to the side in the next episode as Sidney & Amanda chatted & his bellowing at & physical assault of Johnny to get his "property back" at the start. Guy, since he's a guy, really couldn't carry off Lillian's bitchy tongue -- it doesn't look any better on a man. You see how it looks on Sir Edward when he has a go at someone & struts about... Guy would find more discreet ways to diminish those who he felt were lesser or a threat.

 

After observing Amanda's behavior at the jazz club, I also think Sir Edward is the Kendall in love with Guy & his money. I think Amanda would have just as soon kept on with her jaunts to Grantchester.

[dubbel zout]

the aristo equivalent of "Wake up dude."

I believe that's "I say, old chap."

[beadgirl]

 

If Sidney is counseling others on that, then he's being a hypocrite.

Not necessarily.  It's not hypocritical to sin even as you tell others not to, it's just being weak/human; it is hypocritical to think it's a sin for them but not you.  That said:

 

As noted above, Sidney could have slut shamed Jennifer (like chiding her about smoking when he smokes -- heh) after finding out she & Johnny were lovers or gone all big brother on Johnny, but he didn't. He didn't judge Isobel Livingstone for her out of wedlock pregnancy by Arthur "Evans," rather reminded the hopeless Arthur of his parental responsibility. Sidney is supposed to follow a certain standard of conduct -- which drunken casual sex with hot singers does not align with -- but its not one he is foisting on others in a hypocritical way by my estimation. Rather, he listens & tries to understand.

 

That's what I like about him in a nutshell -- that he listens, observes, compares to his own experience, and tries to understand.  He's imperfect and recognizes and accepts his own imperfections.  He's not going around belittling people.  He tries to help others while helping himself.  He has his own personal reference points for most of these life issues he's dealing with.  It's one reason I love how the show keeps getting people to toss these put-downs at Sidney.  They'll say things like "but then again, what do you know about love?" whilst completely unaware that in fact, Sidney probably knows more than whoever's saying it to him.

I totally agree.  I liked that he felt bad the next morning, because it showed his beliefs really matter to him, and that in some ways he expects more of himself than others.

 

Did anyone think it was kind of funny the way Gloria was speaking? Everything about the way she spoke screamed, "I'm a lady who sings the blues. I'm addicted to the bad kind of love and I've been hurt more times than I can count."

Heh, yup!  I kept thinking of Lisa Simpson's projected jazz career, where she would be ignored stateside but beloved abroad, would have a couple torrid affairs, and might or might not die young (she hasn't decided yet).

 

Guy is tedious, and so far completely cliched.  It'd be more interesting if he were decent to Sidney because he finds him so thoroughly unthreatening, or if he were genuinely insecure (in a non-bullying way) of Sidney's friendship with Amanda, or anything, really, other than "rich jerk who treats his perceived lessers like crap."

[dargosmydaddy]

My local PBS affiliate had episode 2 on last night, and I flipped to it occasionally (OK, alot...). I liked the continuity of Johnny mentioning Gloria would be coming to the club (he invites everyone at the dinner table; Sidney's clearly thrilled while everyone else ignores him), but did I hear correctly when he explained his arrest? That he had to commit robbery because his father stole his mother's piecework money to go on a bender, and the family needed money for food? I could totally see the dad stealing the mom's money just so she wouldn't have money to escape with, but I don't see him leaving them without food. And we saw in episode 5 that the dad has been powerful/ successful for a long time (since he was able to get away with killing Justin's father). So what's up with that? Did Johnny purposely lie (in which case, wouldn't Sidney have noticed that in the later episode?), or is it a continuity error (which seems weird considering how short the series is, and considering they were already setting the groundwork for the later episode with the mention of Gloria). Or did I mishear?

[SophiaD]

 

General question: do Anglican vicars do confession like catholic priests? sometimes people tell Sydney things and seem to think he'll keep them secret but he tells the police. He doesn't even agonize over it. Is that allowed because it wasn't in the context of an official confession, or do Anglican priests not have that code of confidentiality at all?

 

They do, but it has to be within the context of a formal confession - i.e. asking the priest to hear your confession, and going through the rite.  Just telling a priest something is no guarantee that he (or she) will keep it confidential - in fact, I think here in the US, they are "required reporters" of such things as homicide (planned or executed), suicide (obviously planned), and child abuse.  Elder abuse may be in that category as well.

 

Someone asked earlier about the various types of clergy.  Here is my best take on it.  Once a person is ordained, he (or she) is known as "The Reverend So-and-So."  A curate is someone who has just been ordained to the priesthood and is serving as an assistant somewhere.  A vicar is a priest who is in charge of a church that is a mission - it isn't self-sustaining, and is supported by the local group of churches (known as a diocese).  A rector is in charge of a church that is self-supporting.  A canon is a priest that has been appointed by a bishop or is attached to a Cathedral to oversee a specific area, either regional, or a specific topic, i.e. youth ministries. 

 

Hopefully, this makes some sort of sense. 

 

 

[attica]

One thing that made me giggle was the set design for the club. There were only, like, four tables, and a mile between them! No club wouldn't jam as many tables in as could fit. There should barely be enough room to squeeze by in order to get to the dance floor, or have waitstaff deliver your drinks.

[ComeWhatMay]

dargosmydaddy, I wondered about that too. I chalked it up to the type of money Johnny's father had -- "short money." Sometimes you are flush with cash to toss about like Mardi Gras beads, other times you are flat broke. You are a bully so even when you don't have money people are still afraid of you & will do your bidding. In "the life" as it were, you get caught up in it at times & behave like the customers. Since Archie was shown to be abusive to not just Johnny's mother, but Johnny, I can see him depriving them of basic needs to teach them a lesson.

 

It could be that Johnny did not give Sidney the exact/straight scoop on what happened with his robbery bust, but I could see why Sidney wouldn't press the issue with Johnny then if he suspected the story was sanitized -- Johnny's beloved sister was murdered & Sidney was bereft over Amanda, hooking up with Gloria & lying to Hildegard. Too many of his own issues -- the latter two clearly of his own making -- to be wagging his finger at grieving Johnny. He started it a bit with Jenn over covering for Claudette before his night with Gloria & lie to Hildegard & was promptly shot down too.

[AllAboutMBTV]

 

A canon is a priest that has been appointed by a bishop or is attached to a Cathedral to oversee a specific area, either regional, or a specific topic, i.e. youth ministries.

Thanks for the terminology lesson, SophiaD. I noticed that when Amanda addressed the envelope for Sidney's invitation to her wedding she wrote 'Canon Sidney Chambers.' Which threw me, as I thought he was just a vicar. Words! Fun!

 

Agreed, Attica, that was some bad production design for the jazz club (and in general the production design for the whole series has been top-notch). There seemed to be plenty of dancers -- where did they come from? The joint always seemed half-empty. And Gloria just seemed to swan around in her stage wear like the whole room was her dressing room. (Note to Glo: Love your singing voice. Please turn the Vamp in the your speaking voice down to 3. You are not Jessica Rabbit.)

 

Only one more episode? Sigh... I've yet to watch Happy Valley (soon!), but what will I do without Dreamy McVicarson for another year or so? Scour the Interwebz for his red shirt and jacket, I guess.

[LeGrandElephant]

I just keep thinking of this one episodes of law and order where a guy tells a priest who is also a family friend about a murder he committed, not in a context of confession, but asking for advice on what he should do. The priest then tries to use privilege to avoid testifying, but the lawyers say it doesn't count if it wasn't a proper confession. The church says it does. I think he eventually testifies but quits being a priest because of it. So it was shown as a big conflict for him evrn thought it wasn't in the confessional. That's what makes me wonder. But probably the answer is that I shouldn't believe everything i see on law and order.

[jennifda]

We don't really know whether they will stick totally to the books on the show...

I have read the books and, while they have used the stories from the first book, there have been many changes such as the murderers in some of the stories, most of the motives, no night of Gloria, and no fiancé for Amanda. As to the specific spoiler mentioned on the first page, there is a larger time gap in the books before that occurs.

So far, I have really liked the changes they made. The one night stand with Gloria made my jaw drop because it went so off track from the books and now I can't necessarily foresee how the relationship drama will play out.

[ComeWhatMay]

Jennifda, thanks for the information. From just reading a synopsis I saw differences -- but wow.

I like that they are making changes & that Runcie's choice for Sidney is not foreseeable -- at least just now. The tv show is based on the book -- not the book on TV after all. And this keeps it interesting for book fans who aren't put off by the changes.

It does make me wonder, though, what Runcie thinks. I suppose since Sidney is clearly based on Runcie's father, they should take care not to do anything that would seem to Runcie offensive -- I would want a good relationship with the man who gave me my source material. These seem like talented writers who would take care not to bite the hand that's fed them a solid foundation while putting their own stamp on things.

[jordanpond]

After Sidney's one night stand, I lost interest in this series. Despite initially loving the series, I was starting to lose interest when I saw how often he justified lying. The one night stand was the last straw. I agree with the poster up thread who said that Sidney should not be a vicar. I wasn't surprised to read the post stating that the one night stand was not in the book. It seems completely different in nature to the tone that had been set in the first episode.

[dargosmydaddy]

To me, it's just interesting to watch the trainwreck that is Sidney. If I was his parishioner, I'm sure I would be appalled by his increasingly questionable behavior (not that his parishioners are aware of it...), but as a TV viewer, I'm enthralled by it. And I sense it coming to a head in the finale... while I hope he will continue to be a somewhat gray/ unpredictable character in the next series, I'm thinking he's getting to the point where he has to figure some things out for himself/ come to terms with his past or go completely crazy (either of which I'm up for watching, but I'm assuming it'll be the former.)