S02.E02: Not In Scotland Anymore

[Athena]

Life in Paris is not without trials as Jamie struggles to triumph over his traumas. A fortunate meeting with Prince Charles presents opportunities.

 

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[Rilla-my-Rilla]

The Duke!!! You rat bastard!

 

I lost count how many We're not in Kansas (Scotland) anymore incidents there were.

 

Claire's face when Jamie's "old friend" showed up was the best.

[Dust Bunny]

A+. Wow. That was a fabulous hour.

 

So many thoughts...

 

The casting for Alex Randall was spot-on. He absolutely looks like he could be Tobias' brother. 

 

So, they did the big Black Jack reveal here in episode 2. It will make the buildup to the real duel all the more consequential. It also makes me wonder if they're making an intentional decision about having so much stress so early in Claire's pregnancy - especially if she has to hide the knowledge to protect Jamie. And the longer she hides it, the more that will hurt their marriage. It's an intriguing change.

 

Sandringham with that look back at Claire. Just enough of a peek to see his inner villain. The way Simon Callow plays him, you never know quite what he's going to do or say. It's great.

 

There was more humor in this episode than all of season 1 combined. Here's something I never thought I'd say: I love Mary Hawkins. "Please don't." "You say such horrible things." Rosie Day is fantastic. Equally great is Claire Sermonne as Louise. I'd totally watch a spin-off of Louise, Claire, and Mary living in Paris.

 

Sam's delivery of "Are you... mad, Woman?" was classic. I loved the casual way Jamie shoved Duverney into the water. Duncan owns every scene - almost every shot - he's in. Just watching him be hypnotized by [as Terry et al call it] "the nipple dress" was vastly entertaining. "Lard Bucket and Big Head." I miss those guys too, Murtagh, but your "sunny countenance" helps.

 

The scene with Annalise, Duverney's wig... so many great moments. Kudos to Lionel Lingelser for really going for it in the "dressing of the king" scene. I wonder if there will be anything from that in the gag reel. It was great to hear Master Raymond call Claire "Madonna." I look forward to more of him. He's such a contrast with all the nobility. 

 

Across the board, the acting, writing, directing, music, sets, costumes were outstanding. Damn, this episode is good.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Dust Bunny

[Lion]

Omg.  So I don't follow shows when they are on hiatus and thus am usually completely surprised by casting.  The casting for this season.  Wow, amazing.  I don't think Raymond and his shop could have been any more spot on.  Everything about him was exactly as I'd imagined.  I agree, the Louise, Claire and Mary show would be just marvelous.  I'm already feeling such horror at what will befall our dear Mary.  

 

Everything about this episode was the best.  I didn't think I'd like the France parts as much, but it's working so well.  

[morgan]

I just watched (shhh), will watch again tonight with mr.morgan. I like that they are showing Jamie's ptsd, and I know that in France there is a lot of discord between him and Claire, but I miss their closeness. Definitely feel their disconnect. And while I understand the change in his response to her waxing (and what she waxed) I'm actually disappointed in it. Loved Louise! The casting overall is perfect. The costuming was amazing, sets incredible, but not sure this is my favorite episode. Might change my mind when I watch tonight. I'll also be interested in mr.morgans response as a non book reader. Will he understand what all is going on? Lots of exposition going on of course should help. Good job reinforcing the dangers in dueling and what that will mean.

I notice they still have the wrong date stamp going as well.

Edited April 16, 2016 by morgan

[Clawdette]

That may be the most beautiful hour of television I have ever viewed.  Costume porn! Scenery porn!  Dialog porn!  I loved the snippet and the end of the opening where the harpsichord plays as Louise is being dressed.  It really set the tone for the transition to Paris.

 

I'm glad they are playing up the PTSD because I didn't think non-book viewers really understood its depths based on the compression in last season's finale.  The scenes at Versailles made me appreciate reading the books because non-readers have lots of characters and plot to process in a short amount of time.  I hope they aren't discouraged.

 

Murtagh is fabulous as Jamie's right-hand man.  And, doesn't he clean up well!  Jamie punching him as he stared at Claire in the red dress was priceless.  I agree that the casting of Alex Randell was perfect.  Actually, all the casting has been spot on in these first two episodes.  

 

Off to watch again.

[toolazy]

The only complaint I have - and it's a small one - is the way they changed the honeypot scene.  Otherwise, it was excellent and I was surprised when it was over - the hour went by verra quickly.

[Lion]

I had concerns about the nipple dress.  A lot of shows would have turned the nipple dress into simple eye candy for the sake of titillating eye candy.  In this episode, it was a great addition to the "we're not in Scotland anymore, Toto" theme.  Yet it also showcased well with the episode focus on women as source of strength and power.  The king's mistress walking tall and proud in her daring dress juxtaposed with the previous scene of the king requiring an audience to help cheer on his bowels was quite well done.  

[morgan]

We ended up watching early so I had my second viewing. It really is sumptuous, so amazing the world created. I still love the new characters, especially Louise.

I think most of my problems stem from the fact that nearly all of Jamie's healing and ptsd, all very important and necessary, has been carried over from last season. At the end of the book, Outlander, they had had that grotto scene and were drawing back together by DIA. They didn't do that, and still aren't in that place. So I guess my conflict is that I love that they are showing his PTSD, but hate that it is so far behind the books that he and Claire haven't had their connection a la grotto yet. There is so much that drives them apart in DIA I hope they show a small part of them together again.

Not sure I am putting that quite right.

Another reason I probably felt a little off is while I like parts of France, I'm really less interested in it than the rest of DIA.

A good thing is mr.morgan, non book reader, followed along fine. Plenty of exposition. No issues.

[toolazy]

Claire and Jamie had their thing in the grotto but it was far from the end of Jamie's healing process.  In the second book, he's still going through it, though he and Claire are having happy sexytimes.  For what it's worth, we don't know that they haven't, all we know is that it didn't work that night.  I think this is a more realistic portrayal of recovery from such a horrific thing.  

 

I have to say that I really the way that they are getting all of the necessary pieces in place quickly, yet nothing feels rushed.  This episode accomplished a cubic sh1tload of character introductions and table-setting.  And I mean table-setting in the best possible way because it was such an engaging episode.  

[maraleia]

I notice they still have the wrong date stamp going as well.

Maril said on twitter that they sent a message to have it fixed for the broadcast.

[morgan]

Absolutely, Toolazy, I do expect/like that they are showing the ptsd. They are doing a great job with it! But I definitely don't see that they are connecting yet again on that level, and I miss it. The big French divide for them is coming and I would like to see some connection before that happens.

[Clawdette]

I enjoyed my second viewing as much as the first. It's amazing how much one misses on the first pass.  When I read DIA I had a completely different mental picture of Master Raymond's shop but I actually like it much better as shown here.  I pictured it as dark and portions almost underground but it's shot so appealingly.  Can't wait to see more of the Master.

 

I also tried to focus on the attendees at Versailles.  Terri noted that the costuming was a monumental task and she was not kidding.  So much talent exhibited on this series.

 

And, there was more Jamie so all is well in my world.

[morgan]

I love master Raymond and his shop! But it is way more chic than I pictured when I read it. No idea why I read it so different, darker.

[Andorra]

I watched the episode two times now and I really like it! It takes a bit of getting used to see Claire and Jamie in the mid of all that décadence, but it is enjoyable that not one Outlander episode is like the next. It's also amazing at what pace they're feeding us so much information and new characters, without it feeling rushed. I think the casting of the characters is amazing btw. Louise is wonderful, as is Mary Hawkins, Alex, Bonni Prince Charles and Maitre Raymond. 

 

I really like the PTSD storyline. It took away some of the wonderful hilarity of the honeypot scene, that it has in the book, but seeing Jamie vulnerable and hurting like this, is very moving and IMO very realistic. The first scene was really shocking.

 

The red dress! OMG how beautiful was Caitriona in that dress. I loved it when Jamie slapped Murtagh out of his staring stupor and was scandalized and proud at the same time about his beautiful wife. 

 

Murtagh was the king of the episode. I always loved him, but this episode I loved him even more than usual. He's my absolute favorite after Jamie and Claire. 

 

Many funny scenes. My personal highlight was when Jamie pushed the finance minister off that bridge, LOL. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Crossing arms and tapping foot repeatedly.

 

Where was my scene of Jamie's outrage at learning Claire had her under arms waxed, huh? Was the scene with discovering her, um...honeypot got the same service in the same scene as was in the buik? As ye all ken, I marathoned my way through the entire series last year during the spring and summer hiatus.

 

I really, really wanted to see Cait teasing Sam, er, while Jamie is standing there jaw dropped, while she's explaining what she did.  Harumph.

 

 

Ahem.

 

So, Jamie meeting Bonnie Prince Charlie was changed as weel? I seem to recall they met for the first time when Charlie dropped in on them while they were, ahem, making love? From the window/chimney? And at the end Claire realized it was the Prince himself, with his Italian/French accent.

 

Me: Oh well.

 

Unlike others, I really could have done without the looong "Dressing of the King" scene. Yes, really.  And the actor, well, he looks way to effiminate for me; not enough...power or whatever it is that would make people be in awe, I guess? Or am I misremembering his impact on the people in his court?

 

BUT. Despite my annoyance with the scene I stated above, I did burst out laughing when Jamie realized that Claire was..bare.  And agree about the humor in this episode.  Jamie's "Are you mad...woman?" had me rolling.  Jamie's casual, without a thought, pushing Duverney over the wall had me laughing as well as smiling and saying 'There's me Jamie!"

 

So. Now I know why Jamie was drenched in blood while he was in bed. 'Twas a nightmare.

 

Murtagh was a hoot as always.

 

Puir Claire. I'm thinking that with Jamie's nightmares and PTSD, that he and Claire haven't had relations, and not just that night after she got waxed.  I agree with morgan, in that there's this disconnect between Jamie and Claire, and me no likey.

 

I'm so glad that Simon Callow is back. I swear, I thought I'd read that someone else was going to play Sandringham this season.  And Claire's reaction at learning Black Jack was still alive, amazing.  For some odd reason, I thought Alex was older than Jack. Not sure why.

 

I can't wait for when Murtagh decapitates that man. The Duke, that is.

 

And since we got the brothel scene, isn't that where Jamie told Claire (in the buik) that the reasons he didn't partake of the prostitutes favors was because his wife was a witch, and hence got the same name in French? La Dame whatever?  

 

I ken they said they were going to depart from the buik this season, and I'm okay with that, because there is a LOT of stuff, but, but, BUT. When it comes to the huge, important and emotional, and okay, even funny moments between Jamie and Claire, I want those to be reflected and shown, dammit!

 

So, even though it may sound like I didna like this episode, I did.  A major reason being a LOT MORE of Sam/Jamie. And I'm glad that Ira said the scene of Jamie and Murtaugh practicing/fighting was added in. Because, more Sam/Jamie. 'nuff said.

Edited April 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[WatchrTina]

 

So, Jamie meeting Bonnie Prince Charlie was changed as weel? I seem to recall they met for the first time when Charlie dropped in on them while they were, ahem, making love?

No they were already well acquainted by the time the Prince came sneaking in Claire & Jamie's bedroom window.  In fact, I feel certain that scene will be included since they went to the trouble of introducing the monkey who bites (Prince Charles arrives bleeding from a bite.)

 

I've just watched it.  I think I need to watch it again and let go of those but-it-was-different-in-the-books reactions.  I think I'm going to like the scene between Claire & Jamie in bed better the second time around.  I loved the you-did-what? moment in the book but I think Clare deciding to get waxed thinking it will turn her husband on and perhaps lead to some badly needed sexual healing is an improvement in the story line.

 

One wee complaint -- they clearly filmed a scene where Jamie tells her to carry a bigger fan (just like in the book) and then cut it.  There is a lack of continuity between the little red fan she shows on the stairs and the big one she is wielding at the party.  I'll bet that scene shows up on the DVD.

Edited April 17, 2016 by WatchrTina

[morgan]

That's what I liked too about the waxed scene change. I loved it in the book and part of me was bummed that they changed it, but I loved the reasoning for her doing it. And his reactions were wonderful.

[GHScorpiosRule]

No there were already well acquainted by the time the Prince came sneaking in Claire & Jamie's bedroom window.  In fact, I feel certain that scene will be included since they went to the trouble of introducing the monkey who bites (Prince Charles arrives bleeding from a bite.)

 

 

Ah, okay. Thanks WatchrTina.  I couldn't quite recall that bit. Mind you, the only thing that's bugging me is the lack of  Jamie's "your oxters!?" dialogue. I don't care when he says it, as long as he did. And I thought for sure DG and Ron said it would be in the show. Otherwise, the other changes don't bother me. I'm just noticing them.

[toolazy]

DG & Ron said that the "honeypot" scene was in the show.  And it was actually kind of hot until Jamie's PTSD kicked in.

[Archery]

My favorite moment was the Red Dress scene, where Jamie says, "I can see down to your third rib!" and Claire responds, "No you can't" in this sort of practical, almost exasperated tone.  It just struck me as so funny -- that's exactly how a married couple would sound.  No drama, just, oh-for-heaven's-sake.  

 

Speaking of dresses, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that they didn't explain the Nipple Dress, they just let everyone's faces do the talking.  A lesser show would have had some voiceover or dialogue saying, oh, that's the King's mistress, she can pretty much do whatever she wants, including wear a dress with pierced nipples exposed.  As it was, everyone's expressions said it all, and the viewer was left with the delicious WTF???ness of the scene.  

 

it's really cool that S2 is so different from S1.  Other shows are second verse, same as the first, with some changes here or there. (I seek you, Vikings)  Outlander is completely different, but with continuity to move the story forward.   

 

I love you, Murtagh.  His expressionlessness speaks volumes, but when he does speak, he's hysterical.

[Quickbeam]

Another big cheer for everything to do with Master Raymond's shop. That was glorious. I want to live there. Great episode; I am enjoying it more than the book.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Quickbeam

[Keeta]

One wee complaint -- they clearly filmed a scene where Jamie tells her to carry a bigger fan (just like in the book) and then cut it.  There is a lack of continuity between the little red fan she shows on the stairs and the big one she is wielding at the party.  I'll bet that scene shows up on the DVD.

 

He did say she'd need a bigger fan at the end of the scene on the steps. (GREAT scene between those two.)

 

Really loved this episode, although at the beginning I was a little unsure. The first few scenes felt particularly exposition-y, like the scene with Jamie and Murtagh practicing their sword fighting, which felt a little forced and not the best writing. But after the first 10 minutes or so, I was completely on board. I also laughed A LOT. Terrific and entertaining introduction of the new characters and societal differences. 

 

New favorite quote: "Sassenach, first your honeypot, now this?" LOL 

[maraleia]

If Terry Dresbach doesn't get the Emmy this year there's no justice...Dior inspired dress, red dress, nipple dress...need I say more.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I haven't seen anyone say anything aboot this, but I laughed during the scene when Annalise approached Jamie. Jealous Claire, uncomfortable Jamie; I could have done without bitchy Annalise, and expected Claire to say something in French to her, to show her that Claire also understood the language. The expressions on Claire's face, while Jamie is stumbling over the duel and how insignificant it really was, PRICELESS and oh, so amusing.
 
So far, the only new characters I find attractive is the dude playing Le Compte St. Germain.  I remember an interview by that annoyance from E! teasing Cait about how it was like to be surrounded by all these many good looking French men, and Cait being all coy. And now? Sam, you is still the best, sexiest among them. Pfft.

Edited April 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[chocolatetruffle]

STUNNING!!.  The warm color saturation made the entire episode look like a sumptuous Baroque painting come to life! The sets, the costumes, the music, the lighting, the humor, the wit, the intrigue and at the center is the relationship between Jamie & Claire, still fragile and healing.  It's interesting that the major threat to their relationship now is the haunting memories of BJR rather than some external threat. This episode was everything!  

 

I LMAO at the way Jamie brushed Duvernay aside (and into the river) like he was fanning away a gnat.  The lead up to the honey pot sequence w/ Louse, Mary & Claire was scintillating and then Jamie's reactions were priceless.  And such sadness and disappointment for both J&C when he could not make love to her.  As much as I hate seeing Jamie so diminshed, it is perfectly in line with the story and Sam's performance is so heartbreaking, it's killing me.  Kudos to him for giving us glimpses of the strong Highlander we remember and then turning on a dime into a wounded, haunted shell of a man.

 

Master Raymond = perfection. Duke of Sandringham is still as wonderfully duplicitous as ever.  And Murtagh is like the anchor of sanity amidst the flotsam (albeit gorgeous flotsam) of Parisian society.  I love how after one meeting w/ Charles Stuart he was totally on board with whatever it takes to save his beloved Scotland from that crazypants.  And the nipple dress reactions were hilarious.  

 

And can we just give Terry and her team the Emmy now?? And Bear, and the writing team, set decoration, lighting designer, director and cinematographer too?  Because this was one of the best hours of television - period.

Edited April 17, 2016 by chocolatetruffle

[Squirrely]

I'm enjoying this season so much more than S1! I'm too emotionally attached to Outlander to handle the changes they made, but I sometimes skip DiA in my rereads, so I'm able to let go of what I know and enjoy the ride. Though I agree, that Jamie's acceptance of her waxing job was a disappointment. Everything else, from Jamie's ptsd, Claire assuring the maid she'll endeavor to be more messy, and Claire's realization that Black Jack is still alive was just pure perfection.

Don't worry, Murtaugh! You'll get your vengeance.

I literally squealed out loud when I saw Master Raymond! I just love him. Can't wait for Fergus and Mother Hildegard to appear.

[Glaze Crazy]

I enjoyed the adaptations that were done in this episode.  The French story in DiA is my least favorite part because of all the tedious social and political intrigue.  In fact, I was sure they had condensed at least 3 parties and the king's lever into the 1 party, but when I went back to the book I saw that it was really just the 1 visit to Versailles that included the red dress, nipple dress and the tossing of someone into the river(fountain) at the party and the reveal of Alex Randall in the employ of Sandringham, the next day.  With the lever, the penis names talk and other stuff shuffled in to save time.  Needless to say, if they continue to condense the (IMO) fluff they can do no wrong, as far as I'm concerned.

 

The costuming is terrific, even the background players had some excellent clothing.  It seemed to me that most of the women had simple hairstyles while many of the men at the party were wearing elaborate wigs. If that was the intent, to show the courtier men as peacocks, they did a good job.

 

The design of the red dress was good and so was the nipple dress, which I didn't even consider they would attempt with a live actress.  I'm on board with Terry and her team getting some deserved accolades when the awards season comes around.

 

The casting continues to be spot on.  Master Raymond was perfection and his shop was a pretty cool set design.  Alex Randall was another good casting, the actor does have a very similar look as Tobias Menzies, albeit younger.  King Louis, Bonnie Prince Charlie, Mary Hawkins, Louise, all well cast.

 

I'm now intrigued on whether Claire will tell Jamie immediately about BJR being alive or will she keep it a secret until Jamie stumbles across either BJR himself or the news of his survival, thus setting up another serious disconnect between the two of them.

[Dust Bunny]

They did change the date stamp from midnight's on-demand's 1745 to tonight's broadcast of 1744. That felt like South Park turnaround. Well done.

[nodorothyparker]

I liked a lot of what they did here in an episode that at times felt like it was bursting at the seams.  There was just so much to look at.  The use of color and the detail was incredible.  Weirdly though the one thing that fell flat for me was the red dress.  It's absolutely gorgeous and stunning and every other single glowing adjective I can think of, but it took me out of every scene it was in to the point that I couldn't see Claire the character at all.  It never allowed me to be unaware that I was watching a former model wear a very lavish dress that looked completely wrong against every other outfit onscreen, like she had wandered into a French court period piece from some other show.  And yes, I get that it's an iconic thing in the series, but sometimes things don't adapt well and this was one of them.

 

I'm reserving judgment on how I feel about the Black Jack reveal this early in the game.  A lot for me will probably depend on how and when Jamie gets the information.  While I'm no book purist, I've always liked that moment in the book where Jamie's able to get over his shock and immediately pull himself together enough to show tremendous dignity in telling the asshole to never ever address him by his given name ever again.  I'm trying for the moment not to read too much into Claire's line worrying that it will make Jamie lose sight of their larger purpose of stopping the Rising with the implication that it would then be his fault when they fail.  It was just so much more complicated than that, but that whole subplot of trying to stop Jamie from getting the vengeance he thought he needed makes me want to makes me want to throw something anyway so I'll just leave it alone for now.

 

Otherwise, the casting is great and they made good use of a lot of humor here.  I love Murtagh going about reacting the way we'd all like to react to things.  The actor is magnificent at showing exactly what Murtagh thinks without saying a word.  The acting in the scene of Jamie flailing about trying to explain his dueling past to his wife and the former object of his affection was terrific and hysterical on all parts as he just kept digging himself in deeper.

 

I like the way they're handling the obvious PTSD.  It feels very real.

[toolazy]

They did change the date stamp from midnight's on-demand's 1745 to tonight's broadcast of 1744. That felt like South Park turnaround. Well done.

 

That's freaking amazing.  

 

I liked a lot of what they did here in an episode that at times felt like it was bursting at the seams.  There was just so much to look at.  The use of color and the detail was incredible.  Weirdly though the one thing that fell flat for me was the red dress.  It's absolutely gorgeous and stunning and every other single glowing adjective I can think of, but it took me out of every scene it was in to the point that I couldn't see Claire the character at all.  It never allowed me to be unaware that I was watching a former model wear a very lavish dress that looked completely wrong against every other outfit onscreen, like she had wandered into a French court period piece from some other show. 

 

Well, congratulations to the costume people because that's exactly what they were going for.  Her clothes are different because her 1940's sensibilities are different - she told Jamie that she'd help design it. She's supposed to stand out, to be a fish out of water; she's supposed to look wrong. 

[toolazy]

Absolutely, Toolazy, I do expect/like that they are showing the ptsd. They are doing a great job with it! But I definitely don't see that they are connecting yet again on that level, and I miss it. The big French divide for them is coming and I would like to see some connection before that happens.

 

What I'm beginning to suspect is that they will come together

in the wake of the thing with Faith.  She will be their road back to each other.  Keep in mind that there's a huge point of conflict - Claire wanting Jamie to spare Randall's life long enough for Frank's ancestor to be conceived - coming up.  From a season arc point of view, I can see that tension ramping up until the duel and its aftermath.  Then they come together and head into the second half of the season bonded once again. 

[GrailKing]

I liked it though the waxing portion wasn't as funny as the book to me anyway between Jamie and Claire.

Also when she finds out that BJR is alive she's stunned, but she already knows he dies in 1746, to get back at him she tells him the date that he will die in last year's episode.

[Glaze Crazy]

IIRC, them thinking BJR had died at Wentworth prison, earlier than what Claire knew from Frank, was a catalyst for how they think they can change history IRT the '45.  The fact that he didn't die now puts a wrench into those machinations since their "proof" that history can be altered is not proven yet, after all.

 

 

Weirdly though the one thing that fell flat for me was the red dress.  It's absolutely gorgeous and stunning and every other single glowing adjective I can think of, but it took me out of every scene it was in to the point that I couldn't see Claire the character at all.  It never allowed me to be unaware that I was watching a former model wear a very lavish dress that looked completely wrong against every other outfit onscreen, like she had wandered into a French court period piece from some other show.

 

A thought I had on subsequent viewings was that they should have included a couple of other extreme fashion examples among the other women at the party to emphasize that court fashion had some risk takers, which is something that's mentioned in the book.  Less extreme than the red dress and the nipple dress, of course, but still a bit more than elegant yet respectable party dresses.  They might have used Louise for that too, she's the free spirit that would do it.

[Andorra]

Did someone notice that they fixed the date? Maril Davies tweeted about it. The reruns of episode 1 show 1744 now and so does the second episode. It was indeed a mistake, so the fans trying to figure out the timeline were right!

[Petunia846]

I didn't hate this, very, very far from that, but I didn't love it. A lot of the dialogue felt wrong to me, maybe too expositiony, I'm not sure. The bit with the maid and the bits at the brothel and the bits with the king, just didn't work. I loved everything else at Versailles and everything with Master Raymonde, but this just isn't going to be my favorite episode.

 

One thing I find amusing, and I need to rewatch to double check, but doesn't Murtagh say during the conversation with Charles that he thinks the French can't please their women? And if I recall correctly, wasn't Murtagh the one who told Jamie before the wedding that women never enjoy sex? Did he have an experience in the meantime that changed his mind about that? Heh.

 

Also, I wasn't terribly scandalized by the red dress because it seemed like we still saw less of her bust than we did in her wedding dress where they were literally, painfully, popping out over the top. If Jamie wasn't scandalized by the wedding dress, why was he so overwhelmed by the red dress? The only thing I can think of is that it's not about the boobs as it is about the skin/breast bone between them? It's certainly shows off a different part of the bust than what most people were wearing.

[Haleth]

One wee complaint -- they clearly filmed a scene where Jamie tells her to carry a bigger fan (just like in the book) and then cut it.  There is a lack of continuity between the little red fan she shows on the stairs and the big one she is wielding at the party.  I'll bet that scene shows up on the DVD.

He did say she'd need a bigger fan and I loved that we saw her with a much bigger fan later on.  It was a subtle cue.

 

STUNNING!!.  The warm color saturation made the entire episode look like a sumptuous Baroque painting come to life! The sets, the costumes, the music, the lighting, the humor, the wit, the intrigue and at the center is the relationship between Jamie & Claire, still fragile and healing.  It's interesting that the major threat to their relationship now is the haunting memories of BJR rather than some external threat. This episode was everything!  

<snip>

And can we just give Terry and her team the Emmy now?? And Bear, and the writing team, set decoration, lighting designer, director and cinematographer too?  Because this was one of the best hours of television - period.

Indeed!  Everything about this episode was stunning.  Regarding the red dress, I like that the costumers put no jewelry on Claire.  That dress needs no embellishment.

 

Weirdly though the one thing that fell flat for me was the red dress.  It's absolutely gorgeous and stunning and every other single glowing adjective I can think of, but it took me out of every scene it was in to the point that I couldn't see Claire the character at all.  It never allowed me to be unaware that I was watching a former model wear a very lavish dress that looked completely wrong against every other outfit onscreen, like she had wandered into a French court period piece from some other show.  And yes, I get that it's an iconic thing in the series, but sometimes things don't adapt well and this was one of them.

 

I think that's deliberate.  Claire helped design it so it's a reminder that she'd have a different sense of style than the typical lady at court.  I don't get why Claire would want to stand out like that.  To become the object of gossip and scandal is not going to help their cause.  But she just can't help herself, can she?  Half of the problems she and Jamie encounter could have been avoided if she'd step back and observe rather than jumping into every situation with both feet.

 

I was hoping we'd see Wee Fergus in the brothel.

 

Oh, incidentally, I was watching and my husband wandered in.  I don't think he had any idea what the show was or what it was about, but it grabbed his attention immediately.  Even without knowing any of the characters or storylines he caught on to what was happening.  I didn't have the nerve to tell him Claire is a time traveler.  That would have ruined it.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Haleth

[WatchrTina]

 

 

Weirdly though the one thing that fell flat for me was the red dress.  It's absolutely gorgeous and stunning and every other single glowing adjective I can think of, but it took me out of every scene it was in to the point that I couldn't see Claire the character at all.  It never allowed me to be unaware that I was watching a former model wear a very lavish dress that looked completely wrong against every other outfit onscreen, like she had wandered into a French court period piece from some other show.  And yes, I get that it's an iconic thing in the series, but sometimes things don't adapt well and this was one of them.

I think that's deliberate.  Claire helped design it so it's a reminder that she'd have a different sense of style than the typical lady at court.  I don't get why Claire would want to stand out like that.

I have to agree with notdorothyparker (first quote above).  As much as I loved seeing the red dress in the photos before the season started, and in the windows of Saks Fifth Avenue, I didn't love it in the context of the episode.  In the book Jamie tells Claire to have a dress made that attracts a lot of attention.  It is part of their plan to get to know the movers and shakers at court.  Then, when he sees how revealing it is, he regrets what he said.  That's missing from the episode so we lost Claire's motivation for making an attention-seeking dress.  But even though the color was striking and Book!Claire is beautiful I never got the sense that Book!Claire's dress was in a markedly different style than anyone else's at the ball.  But TV!Claire doesn't look like anyone else.  Yes, I know that was deliberate -- a way to have the costume reinforce Claire's fish-out-of-water status.  I could have gone with that explanation except for one thing -- Claire's dress seems to be wider than anyone else's.  It's even wider than that of the Mistress of the King.  That seems out-of-character to me and also a breach of etiquette.  I've seen photos of 18th century French court dresses that are even wider (they approach the ridiculous) but why would Claire, with her less-fussy 1940's design sensibilities, ask for a dress that is wider than the norm at court?  That feels like a mistake to me.  Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe Cait is wearing panniers that are exactly the same size as the other actresses -- and the red color is making her dress look wider.  But I doubt it.  I think hers are bigger -- perhaps because she is taller -- but I think they are too big and they make the dress topple over from strikingly different thanks to its color and clean lines into something that doesn't quite make sense in the context of the episode.

 

 

He did say she'd need a bigger fan and I loved that we saw her with a much bigger fan later on.  It was a subtle cue.

Thanks Haleth.  I missed that line on the first viewing.

Edited April 17, 2016 by WatchrTina

[peacefrog]

First off I've only watched once so far. Earlier in the day my husband & I were discussing how some shows are so dour and take themselves so seriously(in particular we were talking about Walking Dead). I told him I was worried OL was heading in that direction since so much of the humour has be stripped. He's a non-book reader, unspoiled. He was laughing out loud a good 6-7 times this episode. The humour was completely unexpected to me and I think this is what saved this episode for me.

I thought once again Sam did a remarkable job, so underrated. He plays Jamie just like in the books, subtly more serious yet showing his sense of humor. I thought Cait's Claire suffered a bit this episode with weird editing choices and or direction. I thought the scene in the alcove was so off the mark in terms of quality that we have been getting(acting, directing, sound, etc). Yes it was funny Jamie pushing him off but the amount of time before the splash was heard was far to long.

While I love the costumes and an Emmy is certainly deserved its beginning to affect my viewing. There are far to many gratuitous shots of the costumes. The show pacing suffers when it pauses for lingering camera pans. This episode had the title card featuring a costume, Claire's black & white ensemble, the red dress, brothel outfits and the swan nipple dress. The same goes with dialogue straight from the book. Sometimes it all feels so shoehorned in.

Overall I liked this a lot. This part of the series is my least favorite so any condensing or veering from the books is welcomed by me. I keep hoping that they take a huge turn somewhere and do their own thing but it doesn't look like it me.

[AheadofStraight]

 

Where was my scene of Jamie's outrage at learning Claire had her under arms waxed, huh? Was the scene with discovering her, um...honeypot got the same service in the same scene as was in the buik? As ye all ken, I marathoned my way through the entire series last year during the spring and summer hiatus.

 

I just re-read the scene in the book because I couldn't remember details. She did not have her honeypot done in the book (just armpits and legs) and Jamie was extremely happy about it because he likened it to looking like a wee lassie.

[chocolatetruffle]

On second re-watch, I must shout out my favorite ensemble, which was the the dove-grey satin jacket over the blue skirt and hat that Claire wore to go shopping at Master Raymond's.  Just gorgeous!  Was that the Dior-inspired number??  I also loved the gold print satin dressing gown Claire wore in the scene when Jamie & Murtaugh have returned from meeting Prince Charlie.  Only Terry could make me love satin (a fabric I normally hate with a fiery passion)!

[toolazy]

On second re-watch, I must shout out my favorite ensemble, which was the the dove-grey satin jacket over the blue skirt and hat that Claire wore to go shopping at Master Raymond's.  Just gorgeous!  Was that the Dior-inspired number??  I also loved the gold print satin dressing gown Claire wore in the scene when Jamie & Murtaugh have returned from meeting Prince Charlie.  Only Terry could make me love satin (a fabric I normally hate with a fiery passion)!

 

That's exactly right - that was the Dior inspired dress and it was my favorite costume of the episode.  

 

Showing Claire in her dressing gown was smart because it was the only thing she wore in which you could see that she was pregnant.  

[WatchrTina]

Okay, here’s my take on the episode.

 

THE GOOD

I can’t say enough about the sets and costumes (other than the red dress) so I won’t even try.  I’ll just say Bravo! They were all magnicient.

 

Jamie’s fancy new left hand brace is cool. 

 

I enjoyed the mention of Murtagh missing the company of Rupert & Angus (though “Lard Bucket” and “Big Head” are rather trite nick-names.)  I miss them too.

 

I kind of fell in love with Louise during the waxing scene.  She is so unabashedly comfortable with her body.

 

Mary totally won my heart with her delivery of the line “Please don’t” (when Louise offers to throw off her robe and show her what “naked” actually means.)

 

The scene that follows – Jamie and Claire’s failed attempt to connect in bed – was sweet, funny, sexy, and ultimately heart-breaking. Great scene and I applaud the writers for what they are doing even though it diverges from the book.

 

At first I was not pleased with the brothel conversation with Prince Charles.  It seemed unrealistic to me that Jamie would begin discouraging the Prince in such an open manner.  But now I have come to admire all that was accomplished in that scene.  It condenses what probably took place over the course of many conversations in the book but gets us to the right place with Charles admiring Jamie’s candor while being completely unmoved by his unvarnished opinion about the Prince’s poor chances of uniting the Scottish Clans.

 

Can I just mention that Jamie looks particularly fetching in his brothel attire?  Note to the hair & make-up team – tie that man’s hair back!  That look works for him.

 

Hey, they are translating the Gaelic this year.  Good, because with all this political intrigue, we need it.

 

Murtagh’s open-mouthed reaction to Claire in the red dress and Jamie’s reaction to Murtagh’s reaction were both perfect.  That whole scene was brilliant.

 

And speaking of brilliant scenes – I absolutely adored the dueling eyebrows of Murtagh and Claire as they reacted to the arrival of Annalise and Jamie’s stammering explanations of who she was.  You could mute the sound and just watch their faces and the scene would still be laugh-out-loud funny.

 

What do you think was the meaning of that look that the king gave Claire?  Appraising?  Admiring?  I’m guessing it was a bit of both.  It was a nice moment that hinted that the king is not quite the weak character we saw wailing over his being constipated in that earlier scene.

 

I was less in love with the look the Duke gave Claire as he left the room.  It implies that he knows all – knows what Jack did to Jamie.  That seems a bit unrealistic – would Jack tell anyone what he got up to in that dungeon?  But I’ll guess that the Duke knows about Jack’s “appetites” and can draw a pretty accurate conclusion from Claire’s reaction to learning Jack is still alive.  So that’s some pretty clever writing.

 

Aaand now Claire has to decide whether or not to tell Jamie that Jack is alive.  That is torturous for me (I don’t know what I would do were I in her situation).  I think that is a clever bit of writing in that it amps of the drama of the situation a notch more than how it played out in the books. 

 

THE BAD
That bit of dialog on the stairs with the servant saying thank you for being allowed to strip and re-make the bed (“Oh Madame, you are too kind.”) was dumb.  I know they were trying to signal that Claire does not slip easily into the role of great lady running an 18th-century Parisian house, but that moment grated on my nerves.

 

It’s interesting that Murtagh has the good sense to tie back his hair while sparring but Jamie does not.  Actually, it’s not interesting, it’s annoying – especially since Book!Jamie nearly lost the duel with Annalise’s late husband because his hair came loose.  These are nitpicks I know but it just makes me wonder what the hair team was thinking.

 

Jamie and Murtagh’s conversation about stopping the Jacobite uprising, complete with a discussion of murdering Prince Charles and King James, all happening in a public place just made me nuts.  I will fan-wank it away by saying that anytime you see Jamie and Murtagh alone together this season, they are actually speaking Gaelic to one another even though we hear English.  Otherwise, having that conversation in a public park was foolhardy in a way that is out-of-character for both of them.

 

And speaking of Murtagh saying things in an inappropriate place -- I disliked the entire king-on-the-chamber-pot scene, including Jamie offering advice, but what I really hated was Murtagh making snarky comments about the king while standing directly in front of him.  I get the feeling that that dialog was written with the assumption that they’d be a bit further back, a bit more secluded, and certainly not within ear-shot of the king himself.  Again, I’m going to pretend that they were actually speaking Gaelic to one another, which would also be a breach of etiquette but a more realistic one.

 

Well as long as I’m talking about Murtagh and etiquette, I hated him yelling at the passers-by in the park.  I guess that was an effort so show how uncomfortable Murtagh feels in Paris (or maybe it was just a way to get spectators to clear off so that they could have their wholly-inappropriate public conversation about assassinating two members of the royal family in a slightly more private setting.)

 

And as long as I’m talking about scenes I could have lived without – I really didn’t care for the dildo scene or the what-do-the-English-call-a-penis scene.  I guess the point of those scenes was to let us see the decadence and frivolity of the French courtiers (and Prince Charles) but they just made me sad.  I got the feeling that someone on the writing staff did some research about 18th century French brothels, discovered that dildos were a thing there, and then couldn’t bear not to include them.

 

I’m also not entirely happy with the red dress because it is too wide and because it wasn’t made clear that Jamie specifically asked Claire to have an attention-grabbing dress made for the occasion.  I’ve posted about it on this board already so I won’t say more here.

 

 

THE UGLY
Mon Dieu! That opening nightmare was rough.  Poor Jamie.  I did not enjoy seeing him covered with all that blood.

 

On a similar note, the flashes to Black Jack Randall in the middle of tender, loving, sexy-times between our hero and heroine (real or dreamed) is really upsetting.  I look forward to the “cure” for that particular affliction.

 

 

OTHER
What church is that that we see in the distance when Claire walks up the steps to Master Raymond’s shop?  There are scaffolds around the two towers, which suggests it is under construction but Notre Dame de Paris was completed long before 1744.

Edited April 17, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Clawdette]

WatchrTina, are you thinking that the Claire walking scene was CGI?  When I saw it I wondered if we were seeing part of the Prague landscape that is subbing for Paris.  I don't know how much old-style architecture is still available in the city for old-time filming.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I just re-read the scene in the book because I couldn't remember details. She did not have her honeypot done in the book (just armpits and legs) and Jamie was extremely happy about it because he likened it to looking like a wee lassie.

I know, but I remember laughing at his initial shock when she told him. I ken I'm being nitpicky, but I can't help it. I really really wanted to see this onscreen and to see how Cait and Sam would play it.

[WatchrTina]

 

WatchrTina, are you thinking that the Claire walking scene was CGI?

Yes, I assumed that Cait walked up a stairway in Prague and the special-effects wizards replaced the scene behind her (which I presume showed modern Prague) and substituted in a shot of what 1744 Paris looked like.  But dead center of that shot was a cathedral with two bell towers, just like Notre Dame, and the towers are sheathed in scaffolding.  I assumed that meant those towers were under construction in 1744 but that does not fit the time-line for Notre Dame.  Maybe the towers were actually being repaired in 1744 when the scene is set (they were hundreds of years old by then so that is entirely possible.)  Maybe we'll hear something about it in the behind-the-scenes blogs.

[Dust Bunny]

Hey, they are translating the Gaelic this year.  Good, because with all this political intrigue, we need it.

 

I was wondering if that's one of two reasons: (1) Jamie told Claire in the Lallybroch episode, "Now that you're a Scot you should work on your Gaelic." So she might know more of the language, thus we do. Or (2), it's been established in "Reckonings" that we can now see things through Jamie's point of view, without Claire's presence (in this episode the brothel, Jamie & Murtagh's sparring, etc). Thus, we can know the language, because he does. I agree that it's great they're translating the Gaelic this season. It brings the context of communicating via three languages - for controlling who knows what. And we, the viewers, get the scoop on all of it.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Dust Bunny

[CalamityBoPeep]

I really enjoyed the episode... the bits of humor were very welcome, and I'm glad they're trying to maintain the feel of the books. I don't mind them changing plot point specifics, but I want them to keep a lot of the humorous feel, and the emotional feel, front and center. Even the bit with the maid was amusing. It's not the plots that I've ever been particularly attached to in these books... it's always been about the character and emotions. (And honestly, sometimes I think it might have done the books some good if DG had questioned certain plot points more. Heh.)

 

I want to do a rewatch this afternoon to start looking at the sets more closely, after having watched the panel with the set designer and Terry in it. Their flip-outs over the appearance of the colors under the lighting conditions made me curious to pay more attention. If I can manage to draw my eyes away from the pretty, pretty people talking. :-D

[nodorothyparker]

I was less in love with the look the Duke gave Claire as he left the room.  It implies that he knows all – knows what Jack did to Jamie.  That seems a bit unrealistic – would Jack tell anyone what he got up to in that dungeon?  But I’ll guess that the Duke knows about Jack’s “appetites” and can draw a pretty accurate conclusion from Claire’s reaction to learning Jack is still alive. 

 

Quote function has stopped working for me for some reason.  

 

Well, the Duke does pretty heavily imply much much later in the book when Claire is imprisoned at his house that if he doesn't know all the particulars he does have a fairly good idea about Black Jack's proclivities and that something Very Bad Happened where Jamie's concerned.  I can't imagine Jack telling his patron that this is what he does for fun either, but we know from the books that it wasn't his first rodeo on that front and that as his patron the Duke would almost certainly have to have been involved in hushing up things that would have reflected badly upon them both.  I thought it fit with the ramped up cat and mouse relationship the Duke has with show Claire. 

 

I loved the severely tailored 40s-inspired outfit Claire was wearing in her beginning trek to Raymond's shop too.  That one actually makes sense to me with the explanation Terry and Co. have been giving in interviews without looking completely out of place to the point of being distracting.

 

I got the feeling that someone on the writing staff did some research about 18th century French brothels, discovered that dildos were a thing there, and then couldn’t bear not to include them.

 

I get this feeling a lot sometimes reading these books, especially the middle and later ones when there's just so much extraneous detail.  Gabaldon took the time to research it so in it goes even if it doesn't really add anything to the story.  Hey, they figured out a way to accurately simulate the reading experience!

Edited April 17, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[WatchrTina]

Okay here are a few more thoughts about the episode.  

 

I listened to the podcast by "The Scot and the Sassenach" and both of them immediately knew the opening scene was a dream but for very different reasons.  He (the Scot) noticed that there was a soft-focus lens in place, which is not at all in keeping with how sex scenes have been shot in the past.  She (the Sassenach) noticed that there were no scars on Jamie's back.  He was VERY impressed by that observation and so was I so I had to go back and look.  I don't know.  You only catch a glimpse of Jamie's back in that scene and only a small portion of his back (upper left shoulder).  But I agree -- I can't see any scars.  So now I'm wondering if the scars were left off as a deliberate hint that it was a dream or because they knew you would only catch a glimpse of his back so they could get away with skipping those 3 hours of make-up.

 

Jamie calls Prince Charles "sire" five times during their conversation. Murtagh calls him "your royal highness" which I thought was the proper form of address for a royal prince.   According to this article the word "sire" was used more widely for someone of noble rank during the middle ages but currently it is used only to address a king.  That makes me wonder if Jamie's use that term in this scenario is an anachronism.

 

I love the fact that Louise cannot pronounce Broch Tuarach, which is faithful to the book.

Edited April 18, 2016 by WatchrTina