S01.E13: Have You Brought Me Little Cakes?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Using time magic, Quentin and Julia have arrived in Fillory and now must try to catch up with the others—who are more than 70 years ahead of them—and searching for The Beast.

Promo:

Edited April 5, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Lemur]

Jesus, I hope Eliot's still alive. I don't think his liver can hold out that long.

[SaraKirsten]

My DVR cut out with less than 2 minutes left. Last thing I saw was Julia's eyes flash green in her flashback (like when they get imbued with god power) and then nothing. Please tell me what happens next (I assume she kills the beast, since she had the knife against his throat).

[Swansong]

She didn't kill him. She made a deal with the beast to get revenge on the god that raped her and killed her friends and they disappeared off together.

[Poltargyst]

Well, that was utterly horrifying on many different levels.

[stillshimpy]

Well, that was utterly horrifying on many different levels.

 

Yup and on top of that, it had some pacing issues.  Very uneven dramatic tone too.  Really not sure what to make of all of that.  

 

Just when I thought I couldn't say "Okay ....whu....?"  once more with feeling: Julia called in Marina to help her.  

 

I ....wuh? I don't know if I liked it, or didn't like it.  I feel vaguely concussed.  

Edited April 12, 2016 by stillshimpy

[jwsel]

My DVR cut out with less than 2 minutes left. Last thing I saw was Julia's eyes flash green in her flashback (like when they get imbued with god power) and then nothing. Please tell me what happens next (I assume she kills the beast, since she had the knife against his throat).

That happened to me too.  It seems to be happening a lot lately with DirecTV.

 

She didn't kill him. She made a deal with the beast to get revenge on the god that raped her and killed her friends and they disappeared off together.

Thanks for the quick answer.  I wonder if that means Julia's quest for revenge will be her main storyline of Season 2 or if it will skip forward to her returning from it.  The show clearly likes to play with timelines.

[blugirlami21]

The episode was awesome til the end. Julia didn't learn anything, selfish til the very end. She could have at least have asked for the beast to fix everyone before running off. Turns out that Julia being there didn't help at all.

She got a really raw deal, man that rape scene was horrifying, but she was stupid. If it's too good to be true it usually is. I hope Kady is ok.

Love the reveal that Martin was the beast. That made sense for his character. The traveler Penny saved didn't do much unfortunately.

I really enjoyed the episode barring the conclusion. I loved the book format that was employed by Quentin throughout.

Edited April 12, 2016 by blugirlami21

[JTMacc99]

Well, I must say, I'm glad I stuck with this show. That was was pretty messed up, and I will certainly be there for season two. Need to process.

[Poltargyst]

Julia really screwed everyone.  If she doesn't take the knife, maybe Alice kills Martin with it and ends it right there.

[kj4ever]

My DVR cut out with less than 2 minutes left. Last thing I saw was Julia's eyes flash green in her flashback (like when they get imbued with god power) and then nothing. Please tell me what happens next (I assume she kills the beast, since she had the knife against his throat).

Mine did that too.  Thank God for this forum!  It's weird because it even says it is 1:06 long but stops at 1:04.  Mine went until she said "You killed Umber" and then cut out.

[FiveByFive]

The episode was awesome til the end. Julia didn't learn anything, selfish til the very end. She could have at least have asked for the beast to fix everyone before running off. Turns out that Julia being there didn't help at all.

She got a really raw deal, man that rape scene was horrifying, but she was stupid. If it's too good to be true it usually is. I hope Kady is ok.

Love the reveal that Martin was the beast. That made sense for his character. The traveler Penny saved didn't do much unfortunately.

I really enjoyed the episode barring the conclusion. I loved the book format that was employed by Quentin throughout.

 

I can't help but think Julia would have been fine had the mental block placed in her mind by Marina not been removed. The trauma of what happened helped propel her to make her decision to bargain with Martin/The Beast. Also, Ember or was that Umber removing it was a total dick move.  Heck, her making up with Quentin in the first place was a result of her not having to deal directly with what happened to her friends earlier.

 

I do hope Kady is okay and I'm very happy that she survived.

 

As for the "unringing a bell part," on one hand Julia was happy she was finally "special" on the other hand, she realized how dumb it was to summon a God a few seconds too late.

 

Also, as for Marina -- we know she's evil, we know she's a bitch and a murderer but she did come to Julia's rescue. Which lends credence to her comment that she did genuinely like her in some weird way. Even when Julia said she'd pay her back for putting a block in her mind, she seemed like she would do it anyway because even she was horrified. 

 

Finally, those kids were not prepared to fight The Beast and got their butts handed to them. Elliot and Janet didn't even have time to act.  Alice may be dead and Penny got his hands sliced off. The hands slicing scene + rape and post rape "goo" were disgusting and the fact they didn't shy away from any of it while still having a story about talking rams and magic trees is why this entire show is so special.  Good season. 

 

Edited to Add: Wait, I know why they purposely went back and showed us Reynard's semen in Julia. It's totally how she was able to grab the dagger and wield it.  Woah. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by FiveByFive

[blugirlami21]

I honestly would be more sympathetic to Julia if this was the first time she acted in her own interest after a trauma. She way more than Quentin is the one I worry about.

She acted very similarly when she didn't get into Brakebills and Quentin wouldn't help her.

What happened to her was horrible but I would wager killing the beast is far more important than her getting revenge on that god.

I just hate that she just left them all there to suffer when she could have done something about it.

[wayne67]

Apparently I also missed out on the last couple of minutes of the episode too. 

 

Just when I was starting to actually like Julia she screws over everyone else for her own selfish reasons. It was also completely unnecessary as without the Beast around they have unrestricted access to Fillory and whoever that God in the tree was. 

 

Poor Penny, lost his hands... 

 

Was anyone else wondering why it was necessary for Alice to drink the entire thing. They all could have had a mouthful and had some God imbuement for the battle... Or at least Elliot, Margo and Quentin could have had a sip. *sigh*

 

Fantasy shows are so bad with characters that put very little forethought into their battle plans. It's all rush in and hope for the best. 

[TiffanyNichelle]

They really stuffed a lot into that finale. I wish they hadn't rushed through so much stuff. But hey I was right about the Beast being Martin. I guess he got the idea after that brief team up with Julia and Quentin.

God I feel so bad for Julia. That was incredibly fucked up.

Eliot marrying the farm girl and being stuck in Filory was stupid though.

I liked that Quentin got over himself in order to realize that Alice should have the knife. Even if she had to drink the "essence". Disgusting.

Edited April 12, 2016 by TiffanyNichelle

[KaleyFirefly]

Well, that was utterly horrifying on many different levels.

 

Yes, and I agree with the person who said it had a very uneven tone...Quentin's chapter titles and narration were often very funny (along with Penny's sarcastic comment "Yeah, that will make him easier to live with" about Eliot being the High King of Fillory). Also loved the "castle that isn't there because of budget reasons" LOL. Lots of amusing and fun moments throughout. Then boom -- that ending. Julia -- what happened to her and what she did. Penny's hands. Penny screaming. OMG. Horrifying. I just stared at the screen like "what the f**k did I just see?"

 

Other thoughts:

- I felt sad for Margo when she learned that Eliot wouldn't be able to leave Fillory ("you're the only person I can stand")

-I felt for Eliot when he explained why he was going to go through with it anyway

-Will Quentin find Jane and have her re-set the time loop again? She's still alive in Fillory right?

-Was that god supposed to be like Loki the trickster god? Does he just like to rape mortals for fun? What's his agenda? And where was the goddess Lady of the Underground or whatever -- why would she let that happen to her followers?

-why couldn't they bring the Dean or one of the other teachers to help them fight the Beast -- aren't they master magicians?

-loved the whole Narnia setting complete with a faun-looking creature -- until he offers them his semen. Eww. But still kinda funny cause it's that kind of show.

-Penny had better be OK because I love him dammit.

Edited April 12, 2016 by KaleyFirefly

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When we found out that Plovver had been molesting Martin, I was like wow, this just got REALLY dark. I had the same reaction this week when we found out that Renard the Fox raped Julia. DUDE.

 

I know rationally that all the murder is terrible too, but a kid being molested and one of the main characters being raped was not what I was expecting when I started watching Hogwarts College: The Series.

 

Unfortunately, I accidentally got spoiled elsewhere about Martin being the Beast and about Eliot being the High King of Fillory (thanks, internet assholes who insist on spoiling things from the books!) so I have been waiting for those two things to be revealed. I'm glad that both happened in S1 so that I can go back to being totally unspoiled when S2 begins.

 

When Margo told Eliot that he couldn't be with anyone else once he got married AND he had to stay in Fillory forever, I was expecting one of them to suggest a farewell orgy (or at least a little farewell sex for just the two of them) before the wedding.

 

Quentin's chapter titles were hilarious, and I loved Ember lamenting his cakeless existence. I really hope that some of the gang survived but things are not looking good for them. Maybe Josh and Victoria will come back to help them? I'm assuming that they are all stuck in Fillory now that Penny's hands have been chopped off and he can't do group travel without the spell tattooed on his fingers?

 

Once again, I feel like there was a bunch of book stuff left out/cut from this episode (or at least enough for me to wonder what was going on). The last we saw, Marina had thrown Julia out of her hedge group and then killed Kady's mom, yet all it takes is a cryptic phone call from Julia for Marina to come running to her aid?

 

What are the duties of the High King of Fillory? I was surprised that Eliot was allowed to just go off adventuring with everyone instead of staying home to rule with his new bride.

 

I feel for Julia, I really do. She had a terrible TERRIBLE experience. She was tricked, she watched her friends get murdered, and she was raped. But her decision to spare Martin so she could get revenge was selfish. My guess is that next season she will rationalize her decision by saying that she is trying to keep others from being victimized by Renard, but let's be real - this is all about Julia's vengeance.

[wayne67]

What are the duties of the High King of Fillory? I was surprised that Eliot was allowed to just go off adventuring with everyone instead of staying home to rule with his new bride.

 

I feel for Julia, I really do. She had a terrible TERRIBLE experience. She was tricked, she watched her friends get murdered, and she was raped. But her decision to spare Martin so she could get revenge was selfish. My guess is that next season she will rationalize her decision by saying that she is trying to keep others from being victimized by Renard, but let's be real - this is all about Julia's vengeance.

 

I'm guessing Elliot has already fulfilled his obligation by breeding the weapon master's daughter, thereby guaranteeing her a position as the Queen of Fillory as she has a royal bun in the oven... Or at least that's my guess for why Elliot had to go off at that exact moment to have royal sexy times. I guess once he fulfilled that duty, his continued survival is moot. 

 

Yeah it's terrible that a bad thing happened to Julia but lots of bad things happen to everyone and they still manage to put aside their personal stuff in order to focus on something bigger than them (at least when it comes down to it). Eg Elliot giving up his sex life forever in order to get them a God killing weapon. Alice putting aside her issues with Quentin to go Fillory questing, drinking some God juice. Penny putting aside the psychic baggage of the voices in order to provide them traveling assistance. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What makes Julia's decision even worse is that it's obvious it wasn't a last minute decision. It's not like she saw that everyone else got taken out so she made one last ditch effort to take down Martin and then realized she wanted something from him. She PLANNED to betray everyone with her own selfish agenda, which is why when Alice snuck up behind Martin, the knife was already gone. If not for Julia stealing it from Alice, everyone could be safe and sound because everything else (Penny's hands being chopped off, Eliot and Margo being thrown against the wall, Alice bleeding) came after that as a direct result of Alice not being able to stab Martin. So not only did Julia decide that her agenda was more important, she essentially caused everyone else to be injured/killed.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Seriously? Julia thinks she's saving everyone else? You know what else could have saved everyone else? Stabbing Martin with the knife you stole from Alice! Ugh.

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[wayne67]

Seriously? Julia thinks she's saving everyone else? You know what else could have saved everyone else? Stabbing Martin with the knife you stole from Alice! Ugh.

 

Yeah making a deal with the Devil of Fillory does not save anyone. Especially since sabotaging the original plan is what caused everyone to be flat footed in the heat of battle with an all powerful dark magician. *sigh* that producer and Julia's actress seems to be coming at this from a completely different view point than me. I just wanted Julia or Alice to stab the Beast and go back to Brakebills for healings. It's not like it's the first dismemberment Brakebills has dealt with this season. 

[Swansong]

 

I feel for Julia, I really do. She had a terrible TERRIBLE experience. She was tricked, she watched her friends get murdered, and she was raped. But her decision to spare Martin so she could get revenge was selfish. My guess is that next season she will rationalize her decision by saying that she is trying to keep others from being victimized by Renard, but let's be real - this is all about Julia's vengeance.

That was a brutal scene so was the last one for that matter, but yeah selling out the others and basically condemning them to death just for revenge? Yikes. And the sad part is I feel like this is going to end up backfiring on her again because really when have her plans for revenge ever really worked out for her and now she's using one dangerous, virtually unstoppable entity to get back at another.

 

I have to admit that finale did not go the way I expected.

 

I love how badly Quentin wanted to be the hero of the story that in his narration he isn't even modest about the fact that he really believed he was the hero of the story, but I also liked him acknowledging that in actual reality maybe he wasn't the right person to be the hero. That was a nice little twist I wasn't really expecting even though the show has made a point of having characters suggest he ain't that special. But I just thought that was the writers being self-conscious about writing yet another 'specialist snowflake in the galaxy main character'. Of course it does mean he gets to live another season while the 'real hero' possibly dies. Poor Alice, either way, having to drink god semen and it was all for nothing thanks to Julia. They've made a point about magic only having a limited affect when it comes to cures, but I hope Penny finds a way to get back his hands. I'm guessing at least one person between Alice, Margo and Elliot won't make it out alive. Alice seems the more likely choice, but my money is on Elliot just because they already planned to have him stay in Fillory so he was effectively 'gone' anyway, but I should probably go with Margo. I'm hoping they all miraculously survive, but it doesn't seem to be that kind of show despite all the humour.

 

Poor Julia and not so poor Julia. It has been kind of a rough season for her and she's been largely powerless so on the one hand I can sort of sympathize with her acting in her own self-interest, but at the same time it seems like she's always been that kind of selfish so it's also just par for the course with her and she doesn't seem to have a lot of regard for other people when they get in the way of her plans. I feel like they're in danger of making her utterly irredeemable. It probably says something, though, that despite everything that happened in this episode I still feel for her a lot. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Swansong

[HunterHunted]

The episode was awesome til the end. Julia didn't learn anything, selfish til the very end. She could have at least have asked for the beast to fix everyone before running off. Turns out that Julia being there didn't help at all.

She got a really raw deal, man that rape scene was horrifying, but she was stupid. If it's too good to be true it usually is. I hope Kady is ok.

Love the reveal that Martin was the beast. That made sense for his character. The traveler Penny saved didn't do much unfortunately.

I really enjoyed the episode barring the conclusion. I loved the book format that was employed by Quentin throughout.

Julia is just so obnoxiously impulsively selfish and self interested. We've seen her screw over Quentin when she wanted into Brakebills. We saw her let Kady's mom die to escape Marina. I honestly think this time is different because Quentin wasn't dragging around this Judas on their entire journey.

I guessed that Martin was the beast a while ago.

[stillshimpy]

Seriously? Julia thinks she's saving everyone else? You know what else could have saved everyone else? Stabbing Martin with the knife you stole from Alice! Ugh.

 

In fairness, I kind of assumed that she wasn't just trying to save the Free Traders, it's just she wanted to save them first.  I assumed she's coming back, she just has more than one more heinous, catastrophic, hideous murder scene to navigate before returning.  

 

It's interesting that apparently other people assumed she was betraying Quentin, I assumed she actually was trying to fix more than one thing.   I guess we'll find out next season.  That whole "Oh holy shit, everybody is lying around dying, Julia, you had better be fucking quick with this side jaunt" scene seemed like one of the outcomes of the probability spells, but I didn't get the impression that Julia was saying, "Oh fuck all y'all, I'm going to go save the cannon fodder that the audience barely know!"  I got the impression she was doing something first.  She had some plan, I doubt it was to let Quentin die, if nothing else. 

 

Richard's plan had to do with summoning a god to manipulate time.  I'm guessing that's what Julia is up to also, but we'll just have to wait a freaking year to find out.  Jeez, show.  

 

Yeah, I still am not quite sure how I feel about that finale, but mostly because it's tone was all over the map.  The pacing was strange in that it was highly comedic in some ways and then horrifying beyond the telling of it.  Also....god spunk?  I'll just be over here projectile vomiting for a while. 

 

Good to see Jane Chatwin as the Watcherwoman and I loved her "Did I die doing something brave?  Make a monument to me, mind the chin!"  made perfect sense for something who had been living a time loop over and over.  

 

Overall most of that was unexpected and often strange, but I did at least appreciate the sense of humor it had.  Nice to see a highly recognizable from every BC scifi show ever made, character actor in amongst the mix as the Smith who forged that knife.  

 

Also?  Biggest clue that the show is going for a mammoth reset on everything, do you guys really think that they just married off Elliot to a peasant girl in Fillory and that he'll never be able to get it on with anyone else again?  Because I personally think that out of the probable storylines they could go with, that seems one of the least likely.   Kind of seemed like a clue not to overly invest in some of the goings on.  Ember and Umber gave Jane Chatwin the ability to manipulate time, she's dead, but Julia also knows that.  So yeah, I just assumed that her deal is going to have to do with the ability to manipulate time, since she's got kind of big menu of things that could use the magical Omega 13 ...and then some. 

 

I suppose that's actually the second biggest clue that Julia's plan involves time manipulation, because the series was renewed for a second season.  The entire main cast, sans Julia, just ended the season dying on a floor.  I don't think that end scene is going to stand, you know? 

 

I wish that could apply to the various and sundry god....essences,  Barf. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Triskan]

I loved it ! That was amazing !!! 

 

I really need to process a little bit more but it was everything I came to love about this show : fun, (very) dark, well-done character's arcs beats, amazing dialogue...

 

Cant wait for next year ! 

[Swansong]

 

In fairness, I kind of assumed that she wasn't just trying to save the Free Traders, it's just she wanted to save them first.  I assumed she's coming back, she just has more than one more heinous, catastrophic, hideous murder scene to navigate before returning.

I did wonder if she was hoping on another reset and that Martin would not only help her defeat Renard, but help her remember, but she's putting a lot of faith in Martin's beast and considering her track record with this sort of thing that seems unduly optimistic. I mean what's in it for him besides the chance to possibly kill a god and is he really all that interested in that enough to stay the course? Right now all she's basically ensured is that two monsters have been unleashed on the world and it's not as if they were doing such a hot job just dealing with just the one. What's her back up plan if it all goes pear-shaped again?

 

 

Seriously? Julia thinks she's saving everyone else? You know what else could have saved everyone else? Stabbing Martin with the knife you stole from Alice! Ugh.

Lol! Yeah that's some really odd logic. I'll save everyone by ensuring they don't have the means to defeat the beast they're fighting and leaving them utterly vulnerable.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Swansong

[wayne67]

I did wonder if she was hoping on another reset and that Martin would not only help her defeat Renard, but help her remember, but she's putting a lot of faith in Martin's beast and considering her track record with this sort of thing that seems unduly optimistic. I mean what's in it for him besides the chance to possibly kill a god and is he really all that interested in that enough to stay the course? Right now all she's basically ensured is that two monsters have been unleashed on the world and it's not as if they were doing such a hot job just dealing with just the one. What's her back up plan if it all goes pear-shaped again?

 

But what would Julia need the Beast for if what she wants is revenge on Reynard ? If she killed the Beast she'd have proven that the knife could kill a dark magician, she'd also have unlimited access to the Wellspring... 

 

If they're aiming for a magical reset, it would feel like a cop out to actual sacrifices made by the characters as a sign of personal growth. It also feels unnecessary the deal with the devil since they could have the cliffhanger be Julia and the crew hunting down Reynard after defeating the Beast. Now they have two threats to take care of... and I hate Julia for playing chess with other people's lives for her own personal vendetta.

[Gwen-Stacys]

The episode was awesome til the end. Julia didn't learn anything, selfish til the very end. She could have at least have asked for the beast to fix everyone before running off. Turns out that Julia being there didn't help at all.

She got a really raw deal, man that rape scene was horrifying, but she was stupid. If it's too good to be true it usually is. I hope Kady is ok.

To be honest, I think Julia is still traumatized and still not 100% in her right mind. She just found out hours before that she'd gotten duped and brutally raped (a rape she endured to save another person's life btw....so not so selfish). Having that memory forced back onto her was probably like reliving it all again. Compound that with the guilt she probably feels at having gotten all of her friend's killed and having let an evil trickster spirit/god into the world, I think she just acted. Her killing The Beast wouldn't, logically, make Penny any less injured or Alice any less dead. So was her decision foolish? Hell yea. But selfish? eeeeeehhhhhh, I wouldn't go that far. She wants to kill Reynard as a means of vengeance, probably, but also because he legitimately needs to be put down.

 

In Martin Chatwin, she potentially has an ally ---they're both victims of rape. And having seen what he did to his own abuser...it's not hard to see how her mind got from point A to point B.  

 

But what would Julia need the Beast for if what she wants is revenge on Reynard ? If she killed the Beast she'd have proven that the knife could kill a dark magician, she'd also have unlimited access to the Wellspring... 

 

If they're aiming for a magical reset, it would feel like a cop out to actual sacrifices made by the characters as a sign of personal growth. It also feels unnecessary the deal with the devil since they could have the cliffhanger be Julia and the crew hunting down Reynard after defeating the Beast. Now they have two threats to take care of... and I hate Julia for playing chess with other people's lives for her own personal vendetta.

I think the thinking behind it was that the knife could kill a master magician....but not necessarily a god. Martin Chatwin figured out a way to take them out but it must be harder than a simple spell if he's yet to take out the other god just sulking in a tree stump eating rats and hoping people bring him cakes.

 

IDK, I can't fault a (recent) rape victim that makes a questionable decision in regards to their trauma. I think most people see rape, the physical, and forget that it's also mental as hell...

Edited April 12, 2016 by Gwen-Stacys

[Lemur]

I think it's safe to say that Julia is not only not in her "right" mind (and probably hasn't been for a while), but has been inexorably altered by her encounter with Reynard.  Also, I think it's a bit early to judge her decision making abilities or lack there of.  YMMV.

[blugirlami21]

I do understand that she is going through something horrible.  Mentally and probably physically as well but going after Reynard is of little consequence imo.  If he's a god presumably he's been around for a long time.  He's not going anywhere.  I seriously doubt that Martin can bring her friends back to life or that was something she actually wanted to happen.  She just wanted to get revenge on the god that violated her.  Completely understandable in any other situation but she seriously screwed everyone else in the meantime.

 

Her friends, the people of fillory, etc.  I just find her lack of empathy for them troubling.  Like I said this isn't her first offence and her habit of doing things only to her benefit is selfish.  It will continue to be selfish until she starts thinking of someone other than herself and the consequences of her actions.

[JTMacc99]

Julia really screwed everyone.  If she doesn't take the knife, maybe Alice kills Martin with it and ends it right there.

I'm really not on board with this line of thinking right now. I think we just saw the set up for season 2, where the bad guy that Julia's team released (I blame the whole lot of them) is just as bad if not worse than the beast.

 

I think it is just as, if not more likely, that Julia is going to end up a strong partner and friend to Q, and that the action she took in this episode was actually the right one.

 

Or not.

[Gwen-Stacys]

I do understand that she is going through something horrible.  Mentally and probably physically as well but going after Reynard is of little consequence imo.  If he's a god presumably he's been around for a long time.  He's not going anywhere.  I seriously doubt that Martin can bring her friends back to life or that was something she actually wanted to happen.  She just wanted to get revenge on the god that violated her.  Completely understandable in any other situation but she seriously screwed everyone else in the meantime.

 

Her friends, the people of fillory, etc.  I just find her lack of empathy for them troubling.  Like I said this isn't her first offence and her habit of doing things only to her benefit is selfish.  It will continue to be selfish until she starts thinking of someone other than herself and the consequences of her actions.

IDK, I don't think she really screwed anyone. Even though she swiped the knife from Alice (though...how'd she do that without Alice even noticing? That's expert pick-pocketing right there), from the comments Martin Chatwin made, it actually sounded as if he knew that she was creeping up behind him. TBH, Julia was the only one to get the drop on him. It makes me think that had she not been there, instead of just Alice being a question mark, they all would've surely died. They weren't ready to fight The Beast.

 

Julia has been shown to be capable of remorse, empathy, and selflessness in the past two or 3 episodes or so. She apologized to Quinton for what she did to him and even accepted that she had no right to expect him to forgive her for it. She's shown multiple times that she cares for Kady (in fact, if not for Julia's segments, this show would rarely, if ever, pass the Bechdel test.). From pulling her away from the demon thing living underneath the bridge to straight up jumping in front of her when Reynard was going towards her (and getting raped as a way for Kady to escape and live another day). So I think saying that she's always been selfish and never thinks of anyone else is a little unfair.  Has she done horrible and borderline unforgivable things? Yes! Every character (save for maybe Alice) has shown that they're selfish and sometimes can't see past their own selves or their own pain. It's what makes them interesting....they're very true to life and the show never shows them as anything but flawed.

 

And as the commenters above me have already said, we don't 100% know what her actual plan is yet or the reasoning behind it. I'm saving my judgment for 2017

Edited April 12, 2016 by Gwen-Stacys

[iMonrey]

This was certainly not what I was expecting for the season finale and I agree the tone was all over the map - although that's pretty much been the case throughout the season. There were so many little flourishes and touches I really liked - the narration and the book-writing as a framing device, the obvious parallels to Narnia and the devastation The Beast had caused Fillory. But the last fifteen minutes felt like exposition overload and it was hard to keep following the thread. 

 

I've said from the beginning of this season that this show feels like it should be an hour long without commercials and that we are missing about 20 minutes per episode cut for commercial space. I don't know know if that's true but it really felt that way in the finale. If that's not the cast, then the show has a serious problem with writing and editing and they need to address it before they start making a second season.

[Swansong]

 

Alice (though...how'd she do that without Alice even noticing? That's expert pick-pocketing right there), from the comments Martin Chatwin made, it actually sounded as if he knew that she was creeping up behind him. TBH, Julia was the only one to get the drop on him. It makes me think that had she not been there, instead of just Alice being a question mark, they all would've surely died. They weren't ready to fight The Beast.

Julia didn't know that. All she really knew was that there was something else she wanted to do instead and she was willing to leave them all completely vulnerable to achieve it so I'm not sure I'm willing to give her credit for that. Maybe they weren't ready, but they certainly weren't going to be ready if Alice didn't even have the knife once she got close to Martin.

[krimimimi]

Every character (save for maybe Alice) has shown that they're selfish and sometimes can't see past their own selves or their own pain. It's what makes them interesting....they're very true to life and the show never shows them as anything but flawed.

 

And as the commenters above me have already said, we don't 100% know what her actual plan is yet or the reasoning behind it. I'm saving my judgment for 2017

I think you're right, they've really gone out of their way to show that *everyone* is flawed. Alice, btw, repeatedly put other people at risk in her quest to find/contact her brother the first few episodes. That resulted in the death of at least one prof, the maiming of the perfectly lovely dean, and the near drowning of a couple of psychics. Could easily have been worse if others hadn't intervened. And when she and the others were being interrogated as to who was responsible, she and Q weren't willing to cough to their part in the situations (although I view her as primarily responsible) even at the risk of getting Kady and Penny expelled.

Bizarrely, Penny seemed to come out of that looking worse than either Alice or Q because he "ratted" Q out. I thought Alice was a complete toad, and she's had to work hard all season to regain some ground with me. I think it's kind of funny that Julia gets way more flak for having done less damage. (Otoh, whiny addict definitely made for annoying viewing.) Even Penny seems to be seen as pretty rotten (bookgate, anyone?) compared to Alice, and I can't recall him getting anyone killed. In fact he's risked his own well-being a couple of times for others (the dream asylum, Q's knife attack, the female traveler in the dungeon). Particularly nice is that all of those examples were for people he either didn't know or like, because it's easier to risk something for someone you care about.

And that's something I like about this show. They have all been jerks and heroes by turn. It's a nice change.

There was a lot of discussion early in the season about whether Q *or* Julia were in the wrong in some of their interactions, and I thought at the time they *both* were. That actually paid off here (somewhat surprisingly), in as much as it's canon that they both feel they were sometimes in the wrong and sometimes in the right. They've apologized and moved on, and I *really* like that. I'm used to shows framing a lot of the heroes as always in the right, so this is refreshing, but there is a danger of viewers accepting statements made or actions taken at face value, and forgetting there might be another side to what we're being told or shown.

So I'm also inclined to believe that this is another bit of misdirection, where we're supposed to think Julia's screwed everyone over, but is actually trying to save even more people. (Also there's no way she's remotely even keeled after the recent and brutal unblocking of that slaughter and rape.) stillshimpy's idea with time manipulation seems highly likely. Ultimately, if Martin/the Beast had been killed at this point, it wouldn't help the freetraders at all, or leave the core group in a position to go up against Renard. (Not saying it's their job, just that they currently can't do it, and maybe Julia saw a different solution. Also doesn't make her not a bitch for completely leaving them out of the decision making process.)

There was a suggestion upthread that she/they could have used the magic fountain/well/ whatever, but I thought that was revealed as the thing that burnt the humanity out of Martin and created the Beast in the first place. Julia and Martin already have too much overlap.

[wayne67]

So I'm also inclined to believe that this is another bit of misdirection, where we're supposed to think Julia's screwed everyone over, but is actually trying to save even more people. (Also there's no way she's remotely even keeled after the recent and brutal unblocking of that slaughter and rape.) stillshimpy's idea with time manipulation seems highly likely. Ultimately, if Martin/the Beast had been killed at this point, it wouldn't help the freetraders at all, or leave the core group in a position to go up against Renard. (Not saying it's their job, just that they currently can't do it, and maybe Julia saw a different solution. Also doesn't make her not a bitch for completely leaving them out of the decision making process.)

There was a suggestion upthread that she/they could have used the magic fountain/well/ whatever, but I thought that was revealed as the thing that burnt the humanity out of Martin and created the Beast in the first place. Julia and Martin already have too much overlap.

 

At this point there's probably still plenty of time to retcon Julia's actions into being motivated by the desire to save the free traders and the group with Time Travel instead of just being about revenge over Reynard. Unfortunately with Julia's past actions with attacking Quentin telepathically after being dissed and acting like a complete junkie after more power for most of the season I probably won't buy it as her actual motivation. Regardless of her eventual actions, she acted unilaterally without consulting the others, screwing up their plan in order to serve her own desires. 

 

As for the wellspring, it's supposedly super concentrated magic. They don't have to imbibe it like the Beast, they could use the Wellspring to enhance their spells, weapons or use it to restore Tree God into being a figure of power again, since he's not human to begin with. 

[stillshimpy]

There was a lot of discussion early in the season about whether Q *or* Julia were in the wrong in some of their interactions, and I thought at the time they *both* were. That actually paid off here (somewhat surprisingly), in as much as it's canon that they both feel they were sometimes in the wrong and sometimes in the right. They've apologized and moved on, and I *really* like that.

 

I agree, I think that when creating believable characters, particularly in this age group, they are all going to be fallible and often times self-involved people.   Late adolescence, which continues all the way to 25 when impulse control finally develops fully in the brain, is just a tough time of life.  Also, more than one thing can be true at once.  Julia has been in the wrong in her dealings with Quentin.  Quentin has been in the wrong in his dealings with Julia.  Neither was entirely right, or entirely wrong, and sometimes they were both in the wrong concurrently.  

 

Mostly I think some kind of time reset has to play a factor because it's been included as part of this universe already.  There are things that simply are unlikely to be able to stand in the next season.  Makes sense to me, but gods know, we've got a friggin' long time before anyone will know one way or the other.  

 

There was a suggestion upthread that she/they could have used the magic fountain/well/ whatever, but I thought that was revealed as the thing that burnt the humanity out of Martin and created the Beast in the first place. Julia and Martin already have too much overlap.

 

Yup, apparently Martin drained away his humanity by drinking from/taking from the well that looked like an outhouse, in case we needed more vivid imagery on the "probably a bad idea" ....admittedly I'd count the god semen visuals among the "well that can't possibly be anything good....?"  because good grief copious fluids.  

 

Also, I got at least a slight kick out of Josh and Victoria just bugging out on the entire escapade.  Victoria had been in a flipping dungeon for who knows how long and Josh had been hanging out in Fountain "grown LSD carrots and funky tasting apples" underground lair of hiding from the psycho killers in the Neitherworlds.  

 

So as everyone else is trying to bravely march towards all manner of misfortune, I did get at least a slight giggle out of the taking-a-powder-posse approach of the Missing Class members.  

 

But I do agree, everyone has fucked up just freaking royally in this group of characters.   Elliot's ill-timed carrot gnoshing led to both Margo and Penny having to kill people because he's been the Pickled Avenger for much of this adventure.  I could really start cataloging all the mistakes and reprehensible acts by all the characters, but mostly part of the point of the story seems to be that no one person is entirely good or entirely evil.  

 

Except Plover.  Yikes.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Except Plover.  Yikes.

I loved that the few times he tried to garner sympathy about his plight, Quentin basically rolled his eyes and said, "Sorry, don't care."

[Philbert]

 

Turns out that Julia being there didn't help at all.

 

Well, they're still alive...at least Alice and Quentin are. Poor Penny's hands though. As for Margo and Elliot, we can but hope. Julia at least got into the killing position-which I take it is as far as they've gotten in their 40 tries.

[FiveByFive]

Well, they're still alive...at least Alice and Quentin are. Poor Penny's hands though. As for Margo and Elliot, we can but hope. Julia at least got into the killing position-which I take it is as far as they've gotten in their 40 tries.

This is one of those carefully planted things in the season (the attempts) that says a lot when you really think about it.  

 

So in the other attempts, Julia got into the school and was friends with everyone and apparently they all died.  This time she wasn't part of the group because she didn't get in and it may be that some of them have died this attempt but they didn't all die. So when you really think about it, in a way, Julia not getting into the school (and having her own adventure) and Quentin using his knowledge of the fact that before everything happened a certain way and choosing to hand the knife off to Alice ... saved some of them? 

Twisted and weird. 

[WildPlum]

Didn't care for it at all and now I am sorry I wasted time watching 12 episodes of it. I hate this kind of grim violence and stupid gore. Every now and then the series would have flashes of something that could be interesting, despite bad dialogue, jumpy edits and mediocre world-building, but piling the gore on it was just too much.

[grandemocha]

That was fucking intense.

 

Yup and on top of that, it had some pacing issues.  Very uneven dramatic tone too.

I do see what you mean by this though.

I thought overall it was a really good season finale, and I'm so glad I gave this show a chance. I needed a new genre/sci-fi show to pick up and this steadily improved throughout the season. My heart broke for Julia and I was incredibly surprised to see Marina show up. I also haven't exactly given up hope on Quentin and Alice finding their way back to each other which made my dorky shipper self a little happy.

 

Penny getting his hands chopped off was intense and the rest has me very much looking forward to Season 2. The show has been surprisingly light on the gore factor I think, other than Kady's mom hemorrhaging, poor Richard getting his heart ripped out and the others in Julia's group dying, the show has managed to somehow limit the amount of blood and violence. This show is relatively tame on the violence aspect compared to others like TVD for example.

Edited April 13, 2016 by grandemocha

[Triskan]

Guys, can anyone help me... I cant remember where I've seen the actress who plays Elliot's bride before (her character's name is Fen apparently)... I think it's on Orphan Black not sure at all...

[snuffles]

 

If they're aiming for a magical reset, it would feel like a cop out to actual sacrifices made by the characters as a sign of personal growth. It also feels unnecessary the deal with the devil since they could have the cliffhanger be Julia and the crew hunting down Reynard after defeating the Beast.

I hope they don't go the "Witchblade" route with a complete reset. I think that ruined the whole show.

 

Let the time loop paradoxes, headaches and hi-jinxes begin. So let me get this straight, in the original time line, the Witch and the Fool (love the names and love Quentin not knowing who was who) were the ones who rescued young Jane from the enchanted trap but they were trapped in a time loop created by older dead Jane and sent to the future Fillory by older alive Jane?

 

I have so many questions and nit picks now:

Who really wrote all the Fillory and Further books? Plover was already trapped (and being tortured) in Fillory when young Jane met the Witch and the Fool. Are the books enchanted?

Why didn't Julia and Quentin tell Jane/Eliza the beast had killed her?

Why didn't the Watcherwoman Jane tell Julia and Quentin the beast was Martin?

Why did Marina come help Julia? How come she knew how to modify memories? What did they do with all the blood, body parts and bodies? Does Marina know or feel Julia is a special snowflake? Marina could have simply erased Julia's memory of everything (like Brakebills erasing any memory of being there once you get kicked out). Why did she create a new "good" memory and have the Goddess tell Julia her destiny and mission was to use magic for good?

 

The show answered my previous questions of why the Beast was so powerful and why the God Ember was doing nothing. So now this Wellspring is the source of all magical power and it created the Gods? What? Still don't understand how the Library and Librarians fit in the magical hierarchy.

 

 

Alice (though...how'd she do that without Alice even noticing? That's expert pick-pocketing right there), from the comments Martin Chatwin made, it actually sounded as if he knew that she was creeping up behind him. TBH, Julia was the only one to get the drop on him. It makes me think that had she not been there, instead of just Alice being a question mark, they all would've surely died. They weren't ready to fight The Beast.

Julia didn't know that. All she really knew was that there was something else she wanted to do instead and she was willing to leave them all completely vulnerable to achieve it so I'm not sure I'm willing to give her credit for that. Maybe they weren't ready, but they certainly weren't going to be ready if Alice didn't even have the knife once she got close to Martin

The scene when they are all going into the outhouse/Wellspring, Julia lags behind Alice and swipes the knife.

[kat165]

I am wondering where next season is going to pick up and which of the cast

members will remain. Which led me to think this: remember in Back to the

Future Marty, in the 50's, tries to tell Doc that he gets killed in the future &

how, but Doc won't listen so Marty writes him a letter. Doc ended up preparing

for this future event by wearing a bullet proof vest so in the future he ultimately

doesn't get killed.

 

Which makes me wonder if Jane Chatwin will do the same thing,  We didn't

see/hear Q tell her how she died, but I'm still wondering if there is a way she

can prevent her death and thereby be around in order to reset the clock once

again and/or change something so that everyone survives?

 

Brakebills, if we ever get back there, won't be the same without Elliot. I hope

the poster above who suggested that perhaps once he impregnates the knife

maker's daughter that Elliot will be free to return to Earth.

[queenanne]

I am wondering where next season is going to pick up and which of the cast

members will remain. Which led me to think this: remember in Back to the

Future Marty, in the 50's, tries to tell Doc that he gets killed in the future &

how, but Doc won't listen so Marty writes him a letter. Doc ended up preparing

for this future event by wearing a bullet proof vest so in the future he ultimately

doesn't get killed.

 

Which makes me wonder if Jane Chatwin will do the same thing,  We didn't

see/hear Q tell her how she died, but I'm still wondering if there is a way she

can prevent her death and thereby be around in order to reset the clock once

again and/or change something so that everyone survives?

 

Brakebills, if we ever get back there, won't be the same without Elliot. I hope

the poster above who suggested that perhaps once he impregnates the knife

maker's daughter that Elliot will be free to return to Earth.

 

Well I think we, for starters, this episode, just figured out why Elliot had two books/autobiographies with his name on them in the Library.

[diebartdie]

-Was that god supposed to be like Loki the trickster god? Does he just like to rape mortals for fun? What's his agenda? And where was the goddess Lady of the Underground or whatever -- why would she let that happen to her followers?

There never was a Lady, that was all just an illusion projected by Reynard to get the hedges in position to create magic that caused Reynard to be able to manifest in our reality. The "Lady" was a trick.

[theatremouse]

The episode was awesome til the end. Julia didn't learn anything, selfish til the very end. She could have at least have asked for the beast to fix everyone before running off. Turns out that Julia being there didn't help at all.

I disagree. This episode showed that pretty much everyone in Fillory, save the knife guy, knew about the loop. Knew about this being the 40th try. The Beast knew it was. Previous attempts, every time Q died. So far, this time he didn't. Julia also knew by then in the earlier attempts she died by this point too. So the change of Julia not getting into Brakebills caused two forks. 1) Julia's not dead yet. 2) Instead she gets raped after watching several murders mid an attempt to let Kady get away.

I suppose you could say we don't know if it "helped" but it definitely changed and they definitely got farther. We don't know how dead or not everyone else is. I didn't Elliot and Margo's neck's slit or anything so they might just be very knocked out. Alice is bleeding out but possibly not bled out yet. Penny has no hands and is also bleeding to death but not necessarily dead yet. And Q is alive. Compared to "you're all dead by now", I'd say that helped. They may not have succeeded this time, but they haven't failed yet either.

Also, since Julia is now also a victim of sexual assault, her wanting to "deal" with the beast may not just be "revenge time for me!" but maybe she's got some bigger plot in mind wherein the way to defeat the beast is not to kill him, but something else. I'd be sort of surprised she'd have the mental faculties to think that far ahead, but other than my expecting her to be in a traumatized haze, I totally buy Julia might go for the long con.

Plus or minus we don't know how having the god essence does/doesn't impact her personality. Does it just give her green-eye power? Or does it do something else? Right before the rape he said something about choosing her in advance. So I think it was a matter of does he kill Kady first, then rape her, or vice versa. Julia's attempt at distraction just caused the order of events and Kady to theoretically get away. I think the intention all along was to kill the rest and rape her. So, was that just a standard power move and fixation on her? Or was there something else the fox was after with Julia? Rape is bad enough but is there some special additional magical component to what was done to her? Do they have some mind-control connection or something? Is she a minion and doesn't even know it? Etc. We don't know.

Edited April 13, 2016 by theatremouse

[blugirlami21]

Either Julia is too traumatized by her assault to think clearly or she's clear headed enough to come up with an elaborate plan in a very short period of time.

Whether you believe she was acting selfishly or not depends on how well you like the character honestly. Based on past character actions, I think she acted selfishly. That's my opinion, ymmv.

We don't know if people are dead or not but neither does Julia. Why didn't she share her plan with the rest of the group? She compromised the plan by acting on her own.

Did Umber say that Quentin had usually killed Julia by that point in the time loop?

[Black Knight]

Some thoughts that came to me this morning about Julia:

 

Marina patched her memory within hours of what had happened - Julia never had time to get past the initial stage of shock, pain and grief. So when asshole god removed the block from Julia's mind he sent her reeling back to that point in time. To her, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, it's only been a few hours since her friends were murdered and she sacrificed herself to save Kady and was raped.

 

When Quentin pointed out that she saved Kady, Julia didn't just accept that - she pointed out that the others died. She isn't willing to just pat herself on the back for saving Kady. Everybody else died.

 

We, Quentin, and Julia all learned in the last episode that the latest change Jane made in the time loop was to keep Julia out of Brakebills, in the thinking that she would become a stronger magician outside. Now, there's a very good chance that if Julia goes to Brakebills, what happened to her Free Trader friends wouldn't have happened. Richard/Reynard needed Julia to get his godhood back. Julia has likely figured that out by now. So, at that point, what we're talking about is sacrificing three people - the Free Traders - to save some other people, the Brakebills crew. Ethically, morally, there's a real problem with that, with the idea that people who wouldn't otherwise have died got dragged into this and died just to save the Brakebills group. Quentin et al may not care because the Free Traders weren't their friends, but they were Julia's friends. She cares. And morally, ethically, she has a responsibility to them, to try to save them. If it's okay to do a time loop ad nauseum to save the Brakebills people, there's not much justification for not being willing to do a timeloop to save the Free Traders.

 

We haven't heard what the terms of Julia's deal is with the Beast as yet, but since she has the dagger (which wouldn't exist if not for her, and the whole crew wouldn't have gotten to the point they did if not for her), she has a lot of leverage. I think her plan will prove to be more than just a vengeance "kill Reynard" plot. The Brakebills crew is focused on themselves and the Beast, which, fair enough. But Julia has more concerns and greater responsibilities: She has additional people to try to save - people who are only dead because they're collateral damage of Jane's latest try at killing the Beast - and a second psychopath supernatural being who needs to be put down before he rapes and murders even more people. Any and all future crimes Reynard commits are additional collateral damage for saving the Brakebills crew.

 

So, I don't blame Julia for working something here, instead of just shrugging her shoulders over three people becoming collateral damage. It's easy for Quentin to dismiss because they weren't his friends, but not so much for Julia (remember, for her this is just hours ago). My guess is she's trying to save everyone, and I think she has a moral and ethical responsibility to try. This is a universe with time travel and magic, so there's opportunity there. Yes, it's dangerous, but it's also pretty ugly to just throw three people's lives away because it's hard to try to save them. Those people didn't choose to sacrifice themselves so Quentin, Alice, Margo, Elliot, Penny, and Julia herself could live, and their lives aren't worth less than the others'. And something does have to be done about Reynard, who's been unleashed on the world as a result of this plan to get the Beast.

 

So, I'm more than willing to wait and see what Julia does next. I know she's not going to just let the Brakebills people die, so I can wait to see what her plan is. Granted, I'll be waiting very impatiently...when does S2 start?!

 

P.S. In fairness to Jane Chatwin, when she kept Julia out of Brakebills for the purpose of seeing if that would finally lead to the Beast's defeat, I'm sure she didn't think it would result in Julia getting raped, three other people being murdered, and a psychopath god being unleashed...but all the same, all the collateral damage of her plan to get the Beast really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So if that can be repaired, so much the better.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Black Knight