S02.E13: A Cold Day In Hell's Kitchen

[The Crazed Spruce]

In the season finale, Daredevil is backed into the ultimate showdown for his own life - and the future of Hell's Kitchen.

[Bec]

Well, I figured Elektra was doomed as soon as she and Matt started making plans to run away together. But before that I didn't figure they would kill her off this season (since isn't a character who hasn't been introduced yet supposed to kill her? Not that I care that much about following "canon"). But oh well, it looks like she's going to be brought back to life, so it all works out in the end.

 

Wasn't she wearing the super thin Melvin armor, though? The armor did nothing!

 

And whatever happened to those lights Brett ordered the police to shine on the roof? I thought Matt's secret identity was about to get outted to the world when his mask got knocked off his head. I guess they only got lights on the roof that Frank Castle was on. It's kind of too bad because the ninja fight sequence on the roof could have used more light, I could hardly see what was happening. But I'm glad Matt's secret identity is still safe from the world.

 

Matt saying "I'm Daredevil" near the end. Karen's face was like "that was so hot". Amen, sister.

[Autumn0516]

I'm a little confused. Did we ever find out what the Hand was using the blood for? Or what that huge hole Matt and Electra found was for? I feel like I'm missing a lot.

[Mars477]

I'm a little confused. Did we ever find out what the Hand was using the blood for? Or what that huge hole Matt and Electra found was for? I feel like I'm missing a lot.

The blood was being pumped into the sarcophagus, which will be used to resurrect Elektra.  (The words on the lid are Japanese for "Resuscitation".)

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't think it was ever spelled out what the Hand was doing with the property with the big hole in it.

 

It wasn't fully spelled out what the Hand was using the blood for, but an educated guess based on what was shown and the guess that was put out by one of the characters: the kidnapped kids had been turned into some sort of incubator for various biological agents. Those biological agents are likely part of how the Hand apparently cheats death, and were being stored in the stone box that the Hand had. Presumably they will play a role in resurrecting Elektra.

[Sakura12]

I knew Elektra was going to die because that's what happened in the comics, as well as her coming back to life. I've seen way too many shows kill the woman while they are defenseless and damelsed. I appreciate that Elektra went out fighting and actually saving the hero's life. 

 

I know a hero's not supposed to kill but I liked that Matt just walked by as Punisher killed the Hand ninjas (which sounds funny when typed out). It makes sense to me, there's a time for mercy and time when mercy would make the problem worse. I'm guessing Frank knows that Matt is "Red" now. I liked that he finally told Karen. Although you'd think she would've figured it out on her own by now. 

 

Foggy's gong to work with Hogarth? It sucks that he didn't run into Jessica at the office or something. I really thought she'd make an appearance to set up the Defenders. Even if he just passed her by on the street while walking to see Karen. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Sakura12

[Ruby25]

I wish they hadn't done Matt/Karen this season, because he is seriously so much better with Elektra. I wanted her to stick around. And I also wanted to see them as a real couple for at least a few episodes. I mean, I guess they kinda were, but I think if hadn't been for him trying to sorta string Karen along, they would have definitely been together together for at least a little bit. The only real romance stuff was in the flashback.

[Sakura12]

Matt definitely has more chemistry with Elektra, almost every time they talked I wanted them to start making out. He really was being an ass with stringing Karen along while lying to her and being emotionally committed to Elektra. 

[peach]

I'm a little confused. Did we ever find out what the Hand was using the blood for? Or what that huge hole Matt and Electra found was for? I feel like I'm missing a lot.

 

I think they're digging a hole to China.

[ForeverAlone]

I dearly hope there is no more Matthew and Karen romance, though I am sure I won't get that wish. I just didn't buy them as a couple, and it was rather uncomfortable to watch. Yeah, I know it is supposed to be canon, but I didn't see any chemistry between the ACTORS. Their romantic chemistry was like a dry, arid desert, whereas the chemistry between Charlie and Elodie was on fire. Matthew is definitely more alive around Elektra, and I'm glad she will likely be resurrected.

 

And I too hoped for a bit more Jessica Jones crossover (though I didn't REALLY think it was going to happen). Maybe in JJ season 2. 

[Ruby25]

Matt definitely has more chemistry with Elektra, almost every time they talked I wanted them to start making out. He really was being an ass with stringing Karen along while lying to her and being emotionally committed to Elektra. 

Yeah really, I mean when she's sleeping over and they're hanging out in their underwear I think it's safe to say they're having some kind of relationship and he just doesn't think it counts, either because they used to be together or because this is his "other life" that Karen doesn't know anything about, so it's okay. But I don't really know why he kept seeing Karen in the first place, since he and Elektra were clearly involved and he even tells her that he wants them to be together in episode 8.

 

I think that stuff was written kinda murky, actually. If they hadn't had Karen hanging around he and Elektra would have obviously been sleeping together, so why didn't they just do that and save the Karen stuff for later, like next season? (If they HAVE to, which I don't think they should even do because the actors have zero chemistry and are awful together).

Edited March 20, 2016 by Ruby25

[FiveByFive]

I enjoyed this season way more than the first one. Although, I remember contacting a friend and stating, "Wow there is SOOOOOOOOO much blood!" I think watching regular TV and movies aiming for PG-13 has made me soft.

 

Matt/Daredevil:

• Sorry to say but I thought he was the most boring part of the season but mostly because of the CONSTANT REMINDER THAT HE WON'T KILL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.  Maybe because we're viewing everything and he can't see it ... but there are clearly cases when someone like Fisk should be taken out because they will not stop or stay behind bars. They will never learn and they will always try and kill you if they have the chance and it was obvious this episode and last Fisk is coming for Matt. 
• Yes, the Punisher kills people who need to be "punished" but the concern was partially that he might hurt someone else too.  Although technically it's a different universe (thanks Marvel/Disney) ... even the X-Men will kill you if you pose a threat to everyone and so will the police that you keep handing these guys over to. Really, pull a gun on a cop and they will shoot you. Pull a gun on Daredevil and he'll beat you and then turn you over. 
• A few episodes in when Matt screamed at Elektra to not kill the hand assassin near the pit and it nearly got her killed, I was thinking, "Yeah ... that's what happens when you don't kill people who are obviously trying to kill you." Learn from this! Nope. You didn't Matt. At least Elektra went out this time because she chose to. She got to be "good" for once. 
• Matt being pissed at Elektra when she was trying to kill Stick only made sence when Stick explained that if she killed him there would be no turning back. Then again, I was thinking, "Yeah of course she's mad.  He tried to kill her!"
• I was happy when Matt announced that maybe his way isn't working but it took the entire season for him to get there. 

 

Karen:

• Happy that Matt and Karen happened this season so it could be over. It's hopefully out of their system.  
• It was great that he told her but I really thought she would have figured it out when he saved her from The Hand.  "Yeah, this hero sounds like Matt, the man I dated ..."  I would recognize Charlie Cox's lips anywhere. 
• Found the character way less annoying this season since she wasn't running around half cocked, not caring whether anyone was going to die aka Ben from last season. The Karen "I Will Not Stop Until I Find the Truth" Page was still there but she at least didn't wreck as much havoc on everyone else's lives.
• I'm happy her purpose next season will probably be a researcher for whomever the group ends up dealing with. 
• I also appreciated that she was smart enough to break up with Matt. Someone that hides that much from you is not healthy to be around. The thing is, he didn't need to hide any of it. Saying, "that's my ex-girlfriend" or "I met this guy at the orphanage when I was a kid and he raised her" or even "Yeah, I'm Daredevil and I figured you should know since the only other person I consider to be a friend does know and if you can't handle that then bye!"  I get that heroes want to protect their identities to protect the people in their lives but I'm not sure Karen would have done anything damaging to him with that information. Just like him, as far as we could tell because of her past, she only had two friends and Foggy was the other.

 

Foggy:  

• Love that his "hot" girlfriend is still in his life (even if they had a break) and I hope he actually dates her like a normal couple would.
• I always appreciated that they put her in Foggy's life so there was no need for a triangle between Karen, Matt and him.  

 

Elektra/Punisher

• The first time I've ever loved Elektra and I read the comic.  I figured she'd die this episode but I figure she'll be back same as Nobu was and the writing on the top of the chamber stated. I never was able to get a fix on the character just reading the comic but the actress gave her a personality that made me buy their relationship.  Matt's controlled. She's not. They balance each other out. She helped him have fun. He calms her down. It work.
• That armor looked like it wasn't going to protect her much but then again piercing is different than blunt so of course it couldn't her out there.
• The Punisher casting as well as Elektra's were PURE PERFECTION. 

 

Stick

• I'm not sure why he suddenly flipped and wanted to kill Elektra claiming she was out of control. Dude, she was no more out of control than you have been anytime you've appeared. You could have killed her when she was a kid. You could have killed her when she was an adult and you came back into her life off screen. Now, though. You want to kill her. "LOL OK!" 

 

Overall a better season than the first one. It was nearly non-stop action from the first to last  episode and it makes me more excited to see Luke Cage and Jessica Jones Season 2.

Edited March 20, 2016 by FiveByFive

[Mars477]

Stick

• I'm not sure why he suddenly flipped and wanted to kill Elektra claiming she was out of control. Dude, she was no more out of control than you have been anytime you've appeared. You could have killed her when she was a kid. You could have killed her when she was an adult and you came back into her life off screen. Now, though. You want to kill her. "LOL OK!" 

 

Because while Elektra was a murderous sociopath marching to his tune he was perfectly fine with using her to further his goals.  Stick is not a nice person (duh).  Of course, that means that the moment she tells Stick to shove off with his orders, she immediately becomes a dangerous threat to eliminate immediately.

[Eegah]

Elektra's death here is basically a master class in how to kill of a female character without stuffing her into the fridge, as the popular saying goes. Even beyond how she's obviously not gone for good, the fact that she made her own choice to sacrifice her life, and the scene was entirely in the service of her own story rather than just to provide manpain for Matt was all amazing. I hope other writers of these kinds of stories are paying attention.

[Ruby25]

So, at the end of this episode, Elektra was killing people in front of Daredevil and he doesn't care anymore, since he accepts her for who she is, and Punisher helped him out by killing some of those ninjas on the roof, and Matt didn't care and basically nodded at him and seems okay with letting him go, and then Matt himself certainly killed Nobu (or at least thought he did) by flinging him off that roof. And obviously Stick kills, which Matt is basically okay with.

 

So, this whole no killing people under any circumstances thing is gone with him now, right? I mean, not that he'd willfully be murdering people, but it was always kind of hard to see how he could avoid killing sometimes in self-defense, given how many fights he gets into. I hope that he acknowledges that now, because it is the truth.

 

And in the episode where he tells Elektra to leave but accepts who for she is (someone that kills), he's totally accepting that she's going to continue killing but it looks like he's alright with it in a way he's not with Frank, who MUST go to jail- but I guess it's okay because Elektra is his girlfriend. And then in the end he wants to be with her anyway and wants to run away together. I hope they acknowledge that this is all a tacit endorsement of other people who kill and he stops being a hypocrite about it, because he really isn't that different from them.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Ruby25

[Sakura12]

One my issues with all these super hero shows is we see them getting into brutal fights where they are either shooting the bad guys with arrows, repeatedly bashing them in the head with fists or metal weapons and throwing them off balcony's and stairwells. I highly doubt those thug's bosses are running to get them medical attention so realistically they probably died from bleeding out or from severe internal injuries. Which I tend to think of as worse way to die then a quick death that The Punisher and Elektra usually give them. 

 

I also hope this the end of Matt's hypocritical stance on his no killing rule. While they shouldn't go around killing everyone they don't like. Sometimes killing is the option that will save the city. Although I did like Matt screaming at Elektra not to kill a guy then she gets her stomach slashed and poisoned. That's going to teach her to be like you, Matt and not kill people. 

[ulkis]

Matt definitely has more chemistry with Elektra, almost every time they talked I wanted them to start making out. He really was being an ass with stringing Karen along while lying to her and being emotionally committed to Elektra. 

 

To be fair to him, I don't think he really realized it was happening until she got stabbed in the gut by the Hand. And then a couple of hours later Karen saw her in the apartment and that was pretty much it. If she hadn't come by, he probably would have put an end to it. I hope.

 

I wish they hadn't done Matt/Karen this season, because he is seriously so much better with Elektra. I wanted her to stick around. And I also wanted to see them as a real couple for at least a few episodes. I mean, I guess they kinda were, but I think if hadn't been for him trying to sorta string Karen along, they would have definitely been together together for at least a little bit. The only real romance stuff was in the flashback.

 

I think they would have been together together for a bit if she hadn't killed the boy. but they could have at least slipped another kiss or something in the finale. Darn it. 

 

Are Matt and Karen indeed supposed to be canon?

Don't they break-up later on/she betrays his identity to get more drugs?

[ulkis]

I think that stuff was written kinda murky, actually. If they hadn't had Karen hanging around he and Elektra would have obviously been sleeping together, so why didn't they just do that and save the Karen stuff for later, like next season? (If they HAVE to, which I don't think they should even do because the actors have zero chemistry and are awful together).

 

I don't necessarily think they would have been sleeping together. Matt didn't trust her. Then she got stabbed in the gut, Matt realized he still cares for Elektra and then Karen comes by and then Elektra kills the boy and then that's pretty much it till the finale. It goes by pretty fast.

 

I wonder what is going to happen with Claire next season, or if she'll even be around at all. I hope she is, I really like Rosario Dawson in the role.  I like how Claire just cuts through all the bullshit.

 

• The Punisher casting as well as Elektra's were PURE PERFECTION. 

 

They really were; Elektra won me over in the trailer just saying "Hello Matthew". I pretty much tuned in just because of that.

Edited March 20, 2016 by ulkis

[Xenith22]

To be fair to him, I don't think he really realized it was happening until she got stabbed in the gut by the Hand. And then a couple of hours later Karen saw her in the apartment and that was pretty much it. If she hadn't come by, he probably would have put an end to it. I hope.

 

 

I think they would have been together together for a bit if she hadn't killed the boy. but they could have at least slipped another kiss or something in the finale. Darn it. 

 

Are Matt and Karen indeed supposed to be canon?

Don't they break-up later on/she betrays his identity to get more drugs?

Yeah basically if I am remembering correctly they tried to be a couple a few times after he reveals his identity to her, but she is never able to fully handle that he is constantly putting himself in danger.  Thus she eventually leaves to try to become an actress on the other side of the country, when that fails she does porn and gets addicted to drugs.  I'm having a hard time seeing the show going there with her though, I mean this Karen is a much deeper more intelligent character than her comics counterpart at the time? Would they really completely break down her character and turn her into a pornstar junkie?  For that matter can she even have the same problem with Matt being Daredevil as her comic counterpart?  I mean the way she has no problem rushing headlong right into dangerous situations herself , I'm not sure if she would be able to have the same fault wth Matt unless they want to make her an enormous hypocrite?   So I'm actually much more worried about her becoming Matt's girlfriend and beng fridged by Kingpin/Bullseye in a variation on the Born Again story.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Xenith22

[FiveByFive]

One my issues with all these super hero shows is we see them getting into brutal fights where they are either shooting the bad guys with arrows, repeatedly bashing them in the head with fists or metal weapons and throwing them off balcony's and stairwells. I highly doubt those thug's bosses are running to get them medical attention so realistically they probably died from bleeding out or from severe internal injuries. Which I tend to think of as worse way to die then a quick death that The Punisher and Elektra usually give them. 

The cops in this universe seem to be highly responsive. Daredevil listens to police communications. It's assumed in one of the early fights that when Daredevil is taking down a bunch of bad guys and the one tells him that he's out on parole, let him go, that the cops are on their way there.  Also in nearly every fight scene the cops show up fast enough that Daredevil can talk to his one police contact he trusts.  Also Claire complains that their ER is filled with thugs who got beat up by Daredevil or nearly killed by The Punisher.  So when Daredevil comes for you, the cops are usually on their way as well.

 

I wonder what is going to happen with Claire next season, or if she'll even be around at all. I hope she is, I really like Rosario Dawson in the role.  I like how Claire just cuts through all the bullshit.

I adore her in this role! Luckily the shows cross over and merge.  She could just as easily be on Jessica Jones again like she was last season or even Luke Cage (and eventually Iron Fist.) She, Jessica and Luke all know one another and if they ever need medical attention they know they can count on her since without her quick thinking, Luke would have been dead. 

 

The same rule also applies to Foggy now.  Working at Jeryn Hogarth's law firm means he now can easily cross paths with Jessica Jones who also still works for them even after the events of S1 of Jessica Jones. Plus they mentioned they were putting him in a role where he'd represent heroes in court.  As such, he could be involved with any and all of them in some capacity.  

[Grace284]

The thing about Matt's reluctance to kill is that it isn't just a straightforward guilt or self righteousness issue. He's Catholic, he believes in the whole eternal damnation thing, so not only is there no justification for murder but whatever someone might do in this life is just a drop in the ocean of eternity. Criminals will keep criminaling, but between Matt's own beliefs, that bereaved kid in the courtroom and Frank's point that you can't just cross the line once and go back, I would hate to see him abandon his rule for the quick fix and I admire him for sticking to it, even if he can be a kind of hypocritical jackass.

 

All that said, I loved watching the darker more dangerous Daredevil with Elektra and I really wanted Matt to run off with her at the end and be free of Foggy and Karen's judgement, even though that would have ended in tears after about five minutes.

[theatremouse]

It sure was nice of all those ninjas on the roof to stop fighting and watch while Matt held Elektra dying and let him have his sad 15 seconds and whatnot.

[Sakura12]

I think their mission was done once Elektra got killed, their entire purpose was to capture her and bring her to their side because she's the Black Sky. They only fought him again once Nobu ordered them to kill Matt. 

[ulkis]

Thanks, Xenith22. I don't see them turning her character

into a porn actress/junkie either

It sure was nice of all those ninjas on the roof to stop fighting and watch while Matt held Elektra dying and let him have his sad 15 seconds and whatnot.

It was! I appreciated it, heh.

All that said, I loved watching the darker more dangerous Daredevil with Elektra and I really wanted Matt to run off with her at the end and be free of Foggy and Karen's judgement, even though that would have ended in tears after about five minutes.

I know, but damn it, I'll take those 5 minutes please.

Criminals will keep criminaling, but between Matt's own beliefs, that bereaved kid in the courtroom and Frank's point that you can't just cross the line once and go back, I would hate to see him abandon his rule for the quick fix and I admire him for sticking to it, even if he can be a kind of hypocritical jackass.

I agree. I think Matt needs to be a little bit more practical but it's nice to see him trying.

Edited March 20, 2016 by ulkis

[zxy556575]

All that said, I loved watching the darker more dangerous Daredevil with Elektra and I really wanted Matt to run off with her at the end and be free of Foggy and Karen's judgement, even though that would have ended in tears after about five minutes.

 

It was heartbreaking when Matt admitted to Elektra that he needed, even thrived, on the violence and pain in his life and that he could only really be free with her. My mind substituted "less of a hypocrite" for "free" but eh. Same diff.

[JustaPerson]

I liked that Elektra's reply was that if he let more people in, he could feel that with them too. Listen to her, Matt! I mean if you're not going to listen to Claire at least listen to her!

[VCRTracking]

I was going "Damnitdamnitdamnitdamnitdamnitdamnitdamnitdamnitdamnit!" during the scene where Matt and Elektra were making plans because I knew that meant she was going to die. I was sad up until the final scene where I went "Yes!"

 

Melvin giving Matt the billy club. I love him.

 

Stick disposing of Nobu once and for all was great.

 

Yay for the Punisher helping out in the end. Also we're going to see Micro!

 

I was hoping Elektra would kill that smug redhead female Hand member.

 

Carrie Ann Moss cameo as Jeri Hogarth! Love how she referred to vigilantes as "people with complexities".

 

Deborah Ann Woll's hair has edged out Connie Britton's as what I imagine heaven feels like.

Edited March 21, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Cthulhudrew]

The blood was being pumped into the sarcophagus, which will be used to resurrect Elektra.  (The words on the lid are Japanese for "Resuscitation".)

I think the hole was to dig out the resurrection sarcophagus, but yeah, not entirely made clear.

[patchwork]

Yeah basically if I am remembering correctly they tried to be a couple a few times after he reveals his identity to her, but she is never able to fully handle that he is constantly putting himself in danger.  Thus she eventually leaves to try to become an actress on the other side of the country, when that fails she does porn and gets addicted to drugs.  I'm having a hard time seeing the show going there with her though, I mean this Karen is a much deeper more intelligent character than her comics counterpart at the time? Would they really completely break down her character and turn her into a pornstar junkie?  For that matter can she even have the same problem with Matt being Daredevil as her comic counterpart?  I mean the way she has no problem rushing headlong right into dangerous situations herself , I'm not sure if she would be able to have the same fault wth Matt unless they want to make her an enormous hypocrite?   So I'm actually much more worried about her becoming Matt's girlfriend and beng fridged by Kingpin/Bullseye in a variation on the Born Again story.

 

I expect that junkie/pornstar is part of the dark past they keep hinting.

[Grace284]

Melvin giving Matt the billy club. I love him.

 

Melvin was the highlight of the season.What a sweetheart. I love Matt's unintentional big brother relationship with him.

[FurryFury]

I'll flip my shit if they ever do the comic book Karen storyline. I mean, I'll even create a Twitter and start complaining, that's how strongly I feel about it.

[Bec]

I have faith. They've been doing well with Karen so far. Now that I've seen the whole season, I'm pretty sure the almost-relationship with Matt was meant to serve her character development. It was one of the things that changed her this season, she became less naive, she doesn't idealise Matt anymore. I like that. All that awkwardness was intentional and not wasted time at all.

 

Now Matt needs to catch up and stop underestimating Karen way too much.

 

Matt's controlled. (Elektra)'s not. They balance each other out. She helped him have fun. He calms her down. It works

I agree! Her crazy matches his crazy!

[VCRTracking]

I'll flip my shit if they ever do the comic book Karen storyline. I mean, I'll even create a Twitter and start complaining, that's how strongly I feel about it.

 

As someone on Twitter said, the Iron Man movies did fine without ever doing the comics most famous storyline "Demon in the Bottle"  where Tony becomes an alcoholic, Daredevil doesn't need to do "Born Again" and if they do, just like they changed who killed Elektra(Nobu instead of Bullseye), they don't have to stick that close to canon either.

[DrLar]

I'm totally baffled that they didn't figure out they were resurrecting people, from Nobu to the ninja boys, Claire should have warned Matt about it, but since Elektra's story is not over, they didn't cremated her, something they should have done knowing that fact, of course The Hand was going to unearth her and put it her in that thing at the end.

 

Foggy is so segwaying to Jessica Jones series, or only to The Defenders show... he could introduce Jessica to Matt and Luke while at it.

[zxy556575]

Matt and Elektra waiting in that room for the ninjas to swarm them was very reminiscent of Butch and Sundance in Bolivia. Since the latter didn't kiss, I guess it's fair that the former didn't, either.

 

The shots of the ninjas swarming silently though the building were cool, but that seems to be the only skill they've mastered. It was, like, 50 to 2 and they were still losing.

[Grace284]

Matt and Elektra waiting in that room for the ninjas to swarm them was very reminiscent of Butch and Sundance in Bolivia. Since the latter didn't kiss, I guess it's fair that the former didn't, either.

 

The shots of the ninjas swarming silently though the building were cool, but that seems to be the only skill they've mastered. It was, like, 50 to 2 and they were still losing.

 

There's a joke that if you see 50 ninjas, you're safe, if you see one ninja, you're in trouble, and if you don't see any ninjas you're about to die.

[Boundary]

I think Matt and Karen are not done by a long shot. After the brief fling with Karen, he realised he had more fun with Elektra, helped in large parts by not having to wear a mask around her, figuratively speaking. That's why he's now told Karen who he is. I also think that now after episode 13, he'd be ready to accept that Karen had to shoot Wesley - something that would've been a hurdle in episode 4. 

 

Without spoiling me too much with comic canon, but does Elektra come back fully in the Hand's pocket as the Black Sky?

 

Foggy is so segwaying to Jessica Jones series, or only to The Defenders show... he could introduce Jessica to Matt and Luke while at it.

 

Honestly I think that makes sense, DD is getting overcrowded and JJ needs more regulars. Most likely Jessica, Matt and Luke (and Danny, after his introduction on Luke's show - here's hoping) won't cameo in each others' shows for a while, at least until after the Defenders series. So in the meantime, supporting acts like Foggy and Claire, even Mahoney and Hogarth will have more fun criss-crossing all over Netflix shows. It's so much fun seeing characters having their arc play out across multiple shows.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Boundary

[DrLar]

So, Matt is the one with no job? what is he going to do for money now? Maybe Elektra left him a couple of million to go by in her will, Foggy has his new job, Karen at the newspaper. BTW what is Claire going to do for money?

[FurryFury]

I suppose we'll learn that on Luke Cage.

[WendyCR72]

Hell, I had wondered what Karen, Matt, and Foggy did for money while even having the law firm! Because they clearly weren't in the black and took on indigent clients who paid by food. Nice gestures and nice of the law firm to help them, but bills and building upkeep aren't paid by pies or bananas!

 

At least Foggy and Karen can make a real living now. As someone else said, maybe Elektra left some cash for Matt. Otherwise, I have no idea how the hell he'd afford his place. Or how he'd buy food!

[Ottis]

I enjoyed this season way more than the first one.

 

 

I thought this season was a half-realized mess, while last season was a taught struggle between two adversaries. To wit:

 

- What the hell is Black Sky, and why should we fear it? All I saw was a female version of DD, who also enjoys killing. So much breath wasted over Black Sky and yet no demonstration of why we should care.

 

- Meanwhile, Elektra is such an abomination she is an "it'? Why? Lots of bad guys on TV shows enjoy killing. Elektra seemed no different. Yet she sure bought into her being special quickly. The whole time she and Matt were urgently debating who she is, I kept thinking, "Wait - why is she bad and what does she thinks 'makes sense""? She is basically Matt, but enjoys killing. So?

 

- And if Elektra is so scary, why weren't the ninja's afraid to fight her? And why wasn't she more effective doing so?

 

- And speaking of, where did the "too many to count" ninjas go who DD cited and we saw forming? By the time the fight began, there were a dozen.

 

- What the hell was the retired officer going on about? Kandahar? And why were all those guns in what appeared to be an easily reached and not well defended cabin? Yes, that now becomes The Punisher's weapon stash, but why were they there to begin with, and how come no one has ever broken in and found them (that fake wall wouldn't fool anyone who could see the size of the cabin)?

 

- I hate ninjas and kung fu crap. Because the fighting never makes sense. Sometimes 6 rapid blows barely phase the opponent, other times one similar blow knocks him out. It is an exhausting way to fight. You have to hit the other guy 20 times to knock him off his feet - and then a few minutes later, he just gets up again. There is no logic to it, on DD or almost any show that features it.

 

- So DD trains for years to hone his skills, and then he needs Stick to tell him to listen for a completely different sound - one which apparently DD had never noted before - and DD immediately does it? Maybe Matt needs cassette recordings from Stick he can listen to under his pillow while he sleeps.

 

- Foggy has one trial - one - that he loses, and another law firm comes calling and offers him a partnership? That is so beyond the pale of anything even slightly realistic, despite the woman's description of why. The only way this makes sense is if Kingpin is behind it and he is setting up Foggy. And Foggy is a fool for falling for it.

 

That's just for starters - and I can live with the unexplained giant hole and other in-process plot points. This season had some promising threads of what it means to be a vigilante vs. a criminal, but about 2-3 episodes from the end it went off the rails. And Karen's concluding article, which led up to the barf-inducing phrase, "you're a New Yorker," sounded like it was written by a 6th-grader.  Or Jerry Seinfeld.

 

I loved season one, and the best thing about season 2 was (again) Fisk. Everything he did made sense, and moved forward in a way that you can see leading to future conflicts. I loved that he and Frank crossed paths. And DD as a whole is a promising show that I want to see again. But for the love of god, can we get some writing that has a point and makes sense?

Edited March 23, 2016 by Ottis

[Gwen-Stacys]

- What the hell is Black Sky, and why should we fear it? All I saw was a female version of DD, who also enjoys killing. So much breath wasted over Black Sky and yet no demonstration of why we should care.

A black sky is a person. They haven't explained what it is yet, but I think most people who've read the DD comics can suss out why the hand who'd deam them to be so important.

Mostly, The Hand worships a demon entity thing that possesses people. I'm assuming that the demon, in this iteration, can only inhabit the bodies of "black skies".

It would make sense why she'd be so highly coveted, as well trained as she is.

 

- And if Elektra is so scary, why weren't the ninja's afraid to fight her? And why wasn't she more effective doing so?

They were trying to capture her, not kill her. In season 1, the first Black sky we see is trussed up in chains. Must mean that they don't always come willingly. And as for the afraid part, refer back to the spoiler comment.

 

What the hell was the retired officer going on about? Kandahar? And why were all those guns in what appeared to be an easily reached and not well defended cabin? Yes, that now becomes The Punisher's weapon stash, but why were they there to begin with, and how come no one has ever broken in and found them (that fake wall wouldn't fool anyone who could see the size of the cabin)?

 

My guess is that was meant to set up the Punisher series that's been being discussed lately. It leaves some mystery/intrigue into where Franks story could, and probably would go. We also see him snatch a cd-rom he'd hidden in his home before torching it. As for the cabin....my guess is that it's still on the general's (or whatever he was) property. And he lived way out in a wealthy suburb....I'm sure most of his neighbors aren't hiking through the woods to break into his secret cabin.

 

- Foggy has one trial - one - that he loses, and another law firm comes calling and offers him a partnership? That is so beyond the pale of anything even slightly realistic, despite the woman's description of why. The only way this makes sense is if Kingpin is behind it and he is setting up Foggy. And Foggy is a fool for falling for it.

Well, it was cannon that both Matt and Foggy had (or were offered) jobs at pretty decent law firms. Not to mention, their tiny firm was the one to put Fisk in prison, before they ever took on the Frank Castle case. I think the consensus was they were on their way to getting Frank a substantially lighter sentence (on top of making him look moderately sympathetic) before Frank blew it to shit. That's two high profile cases they took on with little time in between. Safe to say his name (as well as Matt's) was probably out there. On top of that, his girlfriend pushed his name to her boss. Sometimes it's not just what you know, it's who you know.

 

Jerry approached Foggy with the idea of taking on the cases of vigilantes, as there is a growing market for it (look at the upcoming Civil War movie set in the same universe). He's already taken on the case of 1 vigilante, and he's shown he's not afraid to go up against scarily connected/powerful people like Wilson Fisk. Why would someone offering him a job be a setup? It has been said (and shown multiple times) that he's actually a fairly competent lawyer.

[Sakura12]

Elektra will most likely come back next season possessed by a demon or something. That will make her unstoppable and uncontrollable. 

[FurryFury]

We also see him snatch a cd-rom he'd hidden in his home before torching it.

 

It has the name "Micro", as in Punisher's sidekick Microchip (and yes, I've read on this, because I'm like an unashamed fangirl at this point, damn you, show). But if the Punisher show happens, I'd love for it to have at least a few episodes of Karen and maybe one Matt's appearance. Because he just work really well opposite them. He doesn't seem to have a strong enough supporting cast, comic-wise.

 

Elektra will most likely come back next season possessed by a demon or something. That will make her unstoppable and uncontrollable.

 

I dunno, it seems logical, but...I kinda like her all conflicted? IDK. We'll see.

[benteen]

I will say, the portrayal of Matt and Foggy's relationship is pretty consistent with its comic book counterpart.  As close as they are, they've also come to figurative blows a lot and Foggy has disavowed him once or twice for various things.

[VCRTracking]

It's tough because I didn't want some CGI monster to be the thing that was unearthed because it wouldn't fit at all with the tone of the series, but I also felt the fact that it was a sarcophagus for Elektra was anti-climactic.

[that one guy]

Finally finished this, and my initial takeaway is . . . he's never been north of 116th Street? Really? Didn't he go to Columbia Law? The law school's on 116th, but he never went even to the rest of the campus? Why, because he heard Harlem's "bad?" He never bought groceries at 120th and Amsterdam, or walked up to 125th to catch the subway, in order to avoid having to transfer? I realize this is a show featuring immortal ninjas and affordable property in Hell's Kitchen, but that's the part that snaps my suspension of disbelief.

 

As for Karen's dark fate in the comics, I remember reading last year when Season 1 came out that everybody making the show hated that storyline, so they gave her a dark past instead. There's no way this iteration of the character would

sell out his secret identity for drugs, although there were indications in Season 1 that she used to be a junkie

. Now that Matt has stopped lying to her, I assume Matt and Karen will actually be a thing in Season 3. Which I'm okay with now that the law firm is dead - shows usually ignore this, but it's unethical to date an employee. 

[Ottis]

but I think most people who've read the DD comics can suss out

 

it was cannon that

 

 

As someone who has never read the DD comics and knows nothing about cannon, my comments are written from the perspective of a viewer who is learning about DD realtime. There needs to be some logical consistency around major plot points like Black Sky. Doesn't mean there can't be an unexplained big hole in the ground; that kind of "maybe next season" stuff is fine. When you set up a big baddie, there must be more to it than "everyone keeps saying it, so it must be true" and/or cannon.It wouldn't have taken much. Elektra could have demonstrated a power over *all* the ninjas, or something over distance. Just one example. Without it, that whole plot line, and the tormented back-and-forth between Elektra and DD, seems tiresome and often inexplicable.

 

In season 1, the first Black sky we see is trussed up in chains.

 

 

I remembered that while watching, which made it even more confusing. There is more than one Black Sky? So Elektra isn't as important, one of many, so to speak, vs. being The One? Again, vague.

 

There needs to be a sense of risk, or menace, for DD and his "I will save my city, and I won't kill" to work. Fisk provided it in season one. The unexplained Black Sky in season 2 largely eliminated the sense of risk (except to Matt specifically).Nabo was inconsistent. Madam Gao is painting. The Punisher may be questionable, but he wasn't and isn't the bad guy.  Elektra was just confusing. Fisk came through, but he's still in prison for now. 

 

A lot of season 2 was very good, especially the Matt/Foggy development and a lot of the Karen stuff. But it never felt like there was any real threat.

[that one guy]

When you set up a big baddie, there must be more to it than "everyone keeps saying it, so it must be true" and/or cannon.It wouldn't have taken much. Elektra could have demonstrated a power over *all* the ninjas, or something over distance. Just one example. Without it, that whole plot line, and the tormented back-and-forth between Elektra and DD, seems tiresome and often inexplicable. . . There needs to be a sense of risk, or menace, for DD and his "I will save my city, and I won't kill" to work.

 

 

Yes! One problem with this is that Stick is all,"we must stop them from getting Elektra or some undefined bad thing will happen," and at the end, they get Elektra, but since the season ends it sure seems like nothing happens. Even the whole, "well, it looks like we're definitely going to die now" thing rang hollow, since Matt was trapped in a warehouse one time last season, and he was seriously injured, and didn't have a deadly ninja accomplice by his side. So I didn't really understand the threat to New York, and didn't buy the threat to Daredevil as being too much more significant then any day that ends in a y.

 

I thought this was a great season, but the finale fizzled a little bit, it really felt like the powers that be decided they couldn't resolve anything, because they are looking ahead to Season 3 and the Defenders.

 

Even the death of Elektra doesn't feel like a resolution, unless you are entirely unfamiliar with the material - to me the fact that she dies and is resurrected is kind of central to the character - she's set up as a kind of antichrist figure, albeit not a willing one. So it was an interesting journey, but when it gets to the end it's sort of half baked. This feels more like a "mid-season finale," which has become a thing and I wish it hadn't. I did like how the different mini-arcs resolved themselves quickly and they didn't save everything for the finale, though. They provided convenient points at which to pause the binge and go to bed, or work, or whatever.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah. The finale this season for me, wasn't as exciting and I wasn't flailing like I was last season when I saw Matt in the red Daredevil suit and "flying" with his stick. That was just something so special and fanfuckingtastic for me.