S03.E21: Dead End

[Primetimer]

The 'Dead End' Visual Aids are also trying to smother you in Jack McKay's many turtlenecks.

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[Primetimer]

Jack and Dylan's reunion comes to an explosive end.

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[CurlyATX]

I love you guys but I have a request. My name is Janki (yes- totally true, Indian name!). The slang (jank/Janki, etc) keeps coming back every freaking 5 years and anytime I think it's died down, it pops back up. Thankfully I'm so old I don't get too ragey, but it does make me feel a little bit like a squeaf. Can you use another word?

I'm going to see if Nat can give me a burger on the house because of this!

[WoodyCee]

How did Dylan get to school? He arrived at the boat with Jack and Christine in the dadmobile. Did he take it to school leaving Jack and Christine stranded at the boat? Did he walk to school? Take the bus maybe? <br />Also I was listening to this at work and I was super embarrassed with Dylan's sexy time talk.

[KateeBar]

Those sweats that Brenda is wearing are a complete crime against all lady-parts. My eyes!

I think it's possible the Dylan/Kelly sexytimes scene is even more gross if you are just listening to it. I was queasy. Still queasy, actually. UGH.

[Nanna]

Oh my, are we gonna see that Dylan Jaaaaack noooooo many times. Not that I'd blame anyone for having flash backs after seeing their parent being blown up (or is he really being blown up? Spoiler), but it gets really tedious after a million showings of that clip.

[CicelyAlaska]

I can't believe someone thought teens would be enraptured in storylines about money management.

[Tooch]

Ugh, Dylan and his goddam money. I love that it is literally ONE year later that he has this exact same argument with Jim to get his money out of trust *again*, all in the name of family, *again*. Was Erica the most annoying cousin Oliver ever? I think she was more annoying than fucking April from Gilmore Girls.

Anyway, no shit, I literally was so inspired by this episode that I went out and took a self defense class. I still remember the moves! If anyone tries to attack me in a super specific way I'll totally be ready to hip throw them, lol.

[SoupThrower]

Money management is awesome. 

 

That pillow talk is scary. Had the image of David throwing up while that talk was happening. Also basketball is not a sucker bet compared to football. Just need to know match ups, geez Steve.

 

lol Dylan's dad. So over the top. 

[Sarah D. Bunting]

...ew, Erica.

[Petunia13]

In those pics Kelly and Jackie really look alike. What the hell happened to Luke Perry? He aged so much from the first season.

The wardrobe person really was into clingy sweats maybe they went into lululemon after this show was cancelled.

[ElegantHomeFurn]

Pardon the armchair psychology, but does anyone know anything about Darren Star's relationship with his dad? He just seems to have this compulsion to make Brandon (and now Dylan) self-righteously dominate Jim and force him to admit that he's wrong in like every other story line.

I'd like to think it's that Star's a savvy writer who understands what his teenage audience wants to see, but then why not give Brenda those story lines too?

I've never watched any other Star shows. Is this a recurring thing?

[ElegantHomeFurn]

Also: not super relevant, but my dad had a bookie when I was growing up. He had a buddy who wanted to start betting on basketball, and I distinctly remember my dad telling him almost verbatim what Steve told Brandon about it being a bad idea because the stats are meaningless. So I guess it's nice that the writers did some homework for this completely pointless story line.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

 

I've never watched any other Star shows. Is this a recurring thing?

 

I don't think Carrie's father is ever mentioned on Sex & The City, but the daddy issues with Big are probably so obvious as to not bear elaborating upon...

[AndySmith]

The dads on Melrose Place when Star worked on the show were a mixed bag. Some were ok, some were dicks, some were both, some were crooks. And the characters had different relationships with them, too. But then again, the MP characters were all post-college aged.

 

And to be fair, not all the dads and the relationships with their kids presented on this show were the same as Brandon and Jim's was.

[marny]

I think the only mention of Carrie's dad on SATC was her saying once or twice that her dad left her and her mother when she was young. I remember it from the episode where she starts working at Vogue and Ron Rifkin gets all inappropriate.  Definitely explains her daddy issues with Big.

[AndySmith]

Was Darren still involved with SATC by that point? For some reason I though he wasn't involved with the show all that much after the first 2 or 3 seasons, and Michael Patrick King took over by then...

[Carmen MacCodykins]

I foolishly decided to take a sip of tea right before I clicked on the gif of Dylan in Jimbo's office. And now I have to go clean my keyboard...

[cmfran]

I'd love to talk to the writer responsible for the background music for 90210. I'm dying to ask them how they dredged up inspiration for the constant "sexophone" flourishes and hip "rock and roll" guitar solos. Future podcast guest, maybe?

[DonitsYum]

Ugh, Dylan and his goddam money. I love that it is literally ONE year later that he has this exact same argument with Jim to get his money out of trust *again*, all in the name of family, *again*. Was Erica the most annoying cousin Oliver ever? I think she was more annoying than fucking April from Gilmore Girls.

 

Around this time I started getting very off-and-on about this show.  I was thinking earlier about how truly awful that storyline was.  I can hear that little twerps voice: "Dylan! Save me!" 

The guardrails for this show were officially down at this point and the cliff was looming....

[SoupThrower]

...ew, Erica.

 

Ohhhhh no....not Erica.

 

Most annoying character on the show by far.

 

"Dylan! save me." and the whole her playing on that stupid keyboard. 

[kell710]

Yeah I am pretty sure Darren Star left SATC by end of season 2 or 3. He is now the creator and producer of Younger on TVLand, which is a really great show that hasn't landed on any obvious daddy issue tropes that I can see. I think when he was on Melrose, he was only involved for first couple seasons just like he was with 90210.

[AndySmith]

I know on 90210 he was involved until season 5, and on Melrose Place, till season 3.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

EW, ERICA'S KEYBOARD.

 

Also, Erica's first period. I simply cannot.

[CurlyATX]

Super spoiler, but what was the arrangement Jack made with witness protection? And how did it tie into the stealing of Dylan's trust fund? And, if Jim signed the trust over, how did Dylan continue to need his permission (remember the new Porsche that gets car jacked)?<br />I blocked out how gross Dylan and Kelly were. Isn't this the episode where he gives here strawberries and champagne? It's the start of the weird food/sex that continues with many characters.

[Qoass]

That's okay-- she ends up as a hooker down the road...

[Nanna]

I forgot about Erica's first period. And I'd like to forget it again as soon as possible. Also: pleeeeease hurry up with the next episode, I'm sick and in no fit state to do anything than listening to you guys mocking Dylan and his blown up dad.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

It's up, yo. 

[AndySmith]

mocking Dylan and his blown up dad

 

For God's sake, show some respect! Not for Dylan, not for his dad, but for those super giant sweat pants we'll never see again.

Edited March 17, 2016 by AndySmith

[Lisin]

Super spoiler, but what was the arrangement Jack made with witness protection? And how did it tie into the stealing of Dylan's trust fund? And, if Jim signed the trust over, how did Dylan continue to need his permission (remember the new Porsche that gets car jacked)?<br />I blocked out how gross Dylan and Kelly were. Isn't this the episode where he gives here strawberries and champagne? It's the start of the weird food/sex that continues with many characters.

 

I may be wrong (hell... I probably am) but in the episode Jim just says he's going to sign the papers right? He didn't actually sign them (I think) and then Jack blows up pretty soon after so maybe because he hadn't yet signed them he then just didn't since Jack was dead... that's my theory anyway. 

[SoupThrower]

Should have had less Erica keyboard and more David Piano. Less Erica anything. She looked like a Muppet or something.

[FozzyBear]

I can never get over the fact that, FBI informant or not, Jack made a deal to hand over his son's trust fund to the mob (I think? That's what was happening?) to get out of prison earlier and the show uses this as a redemption arch. That's so...fucked up. I mean the many ways this could have gone wrong in a way that put Dylan in danger are numerous. But to the show its all shady plan to get out of deserved prison sentence = good parenting. Just...what?

Edited March 22, 2016 by FozzyBear

[Snopes]

Although the hardest to register for, this is the greatest site I have ever seen.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 3/14/2016 at 8:19 PM, Tooch said:

Anyway, no shit, I literally was so inspired by this episode that I went out and took a self defense class. I still remember the moves! If anyone tries to attack me in a super specific way I'll totally be ready to hip throw them, lol.

This episode is to the early '90s generation as "Fear Strikes Back" (season 2 of The Facts of Life when Natalie gets attacked--the episode ends with a self-defense class and ever after, I would stick keys between my fingers if I was walking in a bad area) was to the 'early '80s.

Kellie: "Steve doesn't hold a grudge unlike some people." SHUT UP, KELLIE.

The scene between Duke and Brandon was genuinely scary. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

This episode is to the early '90s generation as "Fear Strikes Back" (season 2 of The Facts of Life when Natalie gets attacked--the episode ends with a self-defense class and ever after, I would stick keys between my fingers if I was walking in a bad area) was to the 'early '80s.

Kellie: "Steve doesn't hold a grudge unlike some people." SHUT UP, KELLIE.

The scene between Duke and Brandon was genuinely scary. 

Watching as an adult and even a teenager, The Facts of Life episode was insulting and offensive. First, the “teacher” asked questions of Natalie that were blatantly victim blaming; and second, I can’t take it or him seriously because the actor who played him played the recurring snitch of Lee on Scarecrow & Mrs. King.

[CeeBeeGee]

23 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

the “teacher” asked questions of Natalie that were blatantly victim blaming

Agreed, that was pretty horrible in retrospect. Thank God we know better now.

I have some more thoughts on this episode: Dylan's reaction to Jack's murder seemed off to me and I finally figured out why. He processes what happens immediately--unless, on some level, he was worried all along that something like this would happen, unless he's visualized it, he would've been in disbelief and shock a lot longer. If he was actually worried about his father deep down, we certainly didn't see it--and we should've. The writing is a little sloppy here and in the past few episodes (YA THINK?!) wrt what Dylan really thinks of Jack's motives about the money. When they first approach Jim about the dissolution, Dylan gives Jim a side look that seems to ask for him, the trustee, to delay the process (the podcast comments on this). But then later when Dylan and Jim are meeting one on one, Dylan seems genuinely angry that Jim won't roll over. Which is it, writers? The writers, the directors and Luke Perry should've sat down and discussed exactly what Dylan was thinking and what he wanted so we could've seen stronger indications of this in his performance.

[Scarlett45]

On 9/7/2020 at 5:40 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

The writing is a little sloppy here and in the past few episodes (YA THINK?!) wrt what Dylan really thinks of Jack's motives about the money. When they first approach Jim about the dissolution, Dylan gives Jim a side look that seems to ask for him, the trustee, to delay the process (the podcast comments on this). But then later when Dylan and Jim are meeting one on one, Dylan seems genuinely angry that Jim won't roll over. Which is it, writers? The writers, the directors and Luke Perry should've sat down and discussed exactly what Dylan was thinking and what he wanted so we could've seen stronger indications of this in his performance.

Yes I agree the writing is sloppy. But I think it’s realistic Dylan wants to trust his Dad but doesn’t. His dad is a liar and a fraud and barely parented him (I think he only wanted Dylan to spite his ex wife)- Dylan desperately hopes his Dad will love him but is angry if an outsider (like Jim) brings up what he’s already thinking. 
 

Maybe?

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes I agree the writing is sloppy. But I think it’s realistic Dylan wants to trust his Dad but doesn’t. His dad is a liar and a fraud and barely parented him (I think he only wanted Dylan to spite his ex wife)- Dylan desperately hopes his Dad will love him but is angry if an outsider (like Jim) brings up what he’s already thinking. 
 

Maybe?

That's absolutely plausible, especially with what we know of Dylan and his weird relationship with his father. The problem is, none of it comes through in Luke Perry's acting (at least, not that I see)--if that's what they were playing, the director should've worked with Luke to elicit that kind of subtext from him. (Now I'm wishing I could go back in time and demand to be the director--I loooove directing subtext.) My biggest problem is that immediate "OMG my dad was blown up now I'm going to SCREEEEEEEAAAAMMM" reaction. That just did not read as earned to me, it felt more like "OMG this is SO going on my Emmy bid reel." A more real reaction to me would've been Dylan standing there blankly, in stunned trembling wide-eyed shock.

And to be clear, this is not Luke's fault. It's clear from his performance overall in the show that he's not the most experienced actor--he was cast because he's cute and he can play "James Dean-ish rebellious type" well enough. It's the job of the director to push the actor for more, to lead them through more difficult material.

Edited September 13, 2020 by CeeBeeGee

[Sara2009]

On 3/14/2016 at 7:19 PM, Tooch said:

Ugh, Dylan and his goddam money. I love that it is literally ONE year later that he has this exact same argument with Jim to get his money out of trust *again*, all in the name of family, *again*. Was Erica the most annoying cousin Oliver ever? I think she was more annoying than fucking April from Gilmore Girls.

Anyway, no shit, I literally was so inspired by this episode that I went out and took a self defense class. I still remember the moves! If anyone tries to attack me in a super specific way I'll totally be ready to hip throw them, lol.

How old was Erica even supposed to be? Part of what made her annoying was that she looked 12 but acted 8.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:50 AM, Sara2009 said:

How old was Erica even supposed to be? Part of what made her annoying was that she looked 12 but acted 8.

I have found unless it’s children specific programing, writers cannot write those middle childhood-early adolescence years AT ALL. They can write well for 15-19yrs( coming of age, yearning to be an adult) and 4-7yrs old (adorable and precious). Between 8 and 14 they think children don’t mature at all. 

[Sara2009]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I have found unless it’s children specific programing, writers cannot write those middle childhood-early adolescence years AT ALL. They can write well for 15-19yrs( coming of age, yearning to be an adult) and 4-7yrs old (adorable and precious). Between 8 and 14 they think children don’t mature at all. 

Definitely agreed about the teenage years and having no clue about the middle years, but I think most writers miss the mark on little kids as well. Most of them are written as far wiser and more precocious than the average 4 year-old for example.

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, Sara2009 said:

Definitely agreed about the teenage years and having no clue about the middle years, but I think most writers miss the mark on little kids as well. Most of them are written as far wiser and more precocious than the average 4 year-old for example.

Yes- the average 4yrs old doesn’t make an interesting tv character. At that age it’s about teaching them to be a good human, live in society and not act on every impulse- along with things like reading, writing, simple chores, independent self care etc. not exciting for TV!

 

Most of the time on TV they cast children that are short and small but years older than the character so they can get a better performance out of them. Think of Jamie on OTH, the character was supposed to be 4, but the actor was 7/8 and small for his age- as an adult he’s 5’4. 

[Sara2009]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes- the average 4yrs old doesn’t make an interesting tv character. At that age it’s about teaching them to be a good human, live in society and not act on every impulse- along with things like reading, writing, simple chores, independent self care etc. not exciting for TV!

 

Most of the time on TV they cast children that are short and small but years older than the character so they can get a better performance out of them. Think of Jamie on OTH, the character was supposed to be 4, but the actor was 7/8 and small for his age- as an adult he’s 5’4. 

True. I just think there’s a happy medium that writers usually don’t find.