S13.E12: Wok This Way

[Julia]

Well, sure, its precursors are older (but still not as old as cuisines originating in Asia and Europe) - and waffles and their precursors have been around for many Centuries, during which they would have been served with chicken long before the Pennsylvania Dutch.

I'm not sure I understand your point/s. Soul food was the invented name for an adaptation of african cooking styles and ingredients to the circumstances of enslaved people. Waffles were brought over by northern european immigrants who settled in the mid-Atlantic region and then brought them along as they headed south seeking economic opportunity and land and in some cases a way to keep their slaves a little longer. There are a fair number of cross-pollinations of the two.

[sourpickles]

I grew up in MA and I never, ever heard of chicken and waffles. When I moved to southern PA, I discovered that it is a real thing around here. My jury is still out. Not two things I would ever put together on my own, and man that can be a lot of food.

[JES004]

Majorie has made more than one desseet, multiple breads, and several different cuisines and rocked them all. I get not liking her but the notion that she has only been one note or only made pasta is beyond ridiculous. Also, on this challenge her dish was much more difficult to get right. Gumbo, roast chicken and sauces,and lamb stew (ignoring and Jeremy because it was stupid) she had the most difficult dish to execute at service and she succeeded.

It was a dish that could so easily have failed.  That being said, none of the concepts were original.  As to the Pasta Mama's concept, we have Italio, which is based on the Chipotle model., where you have choices of noodles and sauces.  I liked Marjorie's menu better than Italio's.  The judges seemed favorable to Isaac's concept, too.  I was a bit surprised when Carl won, as I didn't think they were that effusive over his dish.  It was an overwhelming favorite with the diners, but perhaps influenced by a very healthy foods clientele?  

Edited February 29, 2016 by JES004

[jette]

I respect Marjorie for the formidable skills she obviously possesses, but I have found her very difficult to like. She is one of those people who seems to only be polite to those she thinks are talented enough to respect, and I just think that's so classless. The repeated rudeness to Isaac's face, the constant "jokey" punching on the other contestants (that she does so often they were able to make it a montage!), the visible contempt and dismissiveness she has shown at several moments -- she's a jerk. Even the fact that she wouldn't pause for the micro-second it would have taken to stab the lobsters through the head to me says something about her disregard for others (I know lobsters are just big bugs, but I wouldn't torture any creature needlessly).

This. Does Marjorie not realize that Isaac worked for Emeril Lagasse for ten years? Emeril certainly does more than braise, stew and make gumbo - Isaac can as well, f'true! He's simply choosing to do what he knows best, thereby showcasing his restaurant, as many chefs before him have done. How many times have we heard cheftestants admit that what they've cooked is on their menu? Phillip may even have set a record for it this season...

 

I mean, she's a Mike Isabella protégé, for goodness sake! Where's the arrogance coming from? Oh wait - never mind.

 

[Kromm]

To me this is a non-argument. The Penn-Dutch likely didn't invent Chicken and Waffles anymore than the African-Americans did... because it's literally just making a stack of two different foods on the same plate. I'm sure it's been "invented" over and over and over again.

[Rai]

I personally don't find Marjorie's view on Isaac unpleasant.  I don't agree with her, but she's got a right to her opinion.  I also don't share her high opinion of Angelina, but again, she's got a right.  I think she's shown herself to be a very good cook, and the baker aspect has pulled her ahead of her competitors more than once.  I like Isaac a lot and can see him winning fan favorite, but I don't know that he'll win Top Chef.  I can see Marjorie winning Top Chef quite easily.

 

And yeah, sometimes, criticisms of her do seem based on reasons that tend to get overlooked or just considered normal for male chefs.  A serious man is serious.  A serious woman looks like a bitch.  Not into that at all.

[Corgi-ears]

That being said, none of the concepts were original.

 

 

The challenge, as I understood it, was not to invent new food. It was not even to be the first restaurant that would serve a particular kind of food. It was more specifically to propose to potential investors a concept for a fast casual, potentially-national chain. At this point, there are fast casual restaurants serving Mexican (Chipotle, Baja Fresh, etc); burgers (Shake Shack, Five Guys); sandwiches (Panera, Potbelly), etc. Of course pasta or gumbo are not new dishes, nor are they something you won't find served in sit-down restaurants. But no one has quite managed to translate them into fast casual settings, and that's what the episode wanted the chefs to pitch to the investors.

[Julia]

Fast casual italian has been done. Romano's Macaroni Grill has 205 locations in ten countries. Shake Shack, for comparison, has 66.

If I had to choose a concept (and not the person who attempted it), I think I'd go for the lebanese food.

[Corgi-ears]

Fast casual italian has been done. Romano's Macaroni Grill has 205 locations in ten countries.

 

 

 

Romano's has waitstaff, does it not? That's not fast casual. 

 

[Julia]

They're transitioning away from full table service. They've moved to cafeteria-style for lunch specifically to capture the fast casual market, and around here, some have transitioned for dinner as well.

[ProudMary]

Isaac's comments on the episode include answering a question about Marjorie's criticism.

http://www.nola.com/dining/index.ssf/2016/02/top_chef_isaac_toups_wok.html

 

Marjorie, one of the other remaining chefs and the only woman left, has been criticizing you a lot on the show. Did you two get along while filming "Top Chef"?

 

The first time I saw the trash talking was on TV. We were very civil with each other. We hung out. We were always good natured. But I expect a little trash talk.

 

[cherry slushie]

Martin Yan is a vampire.  He looks exactly the same as he did when I watched on PBS 25 years ago.

[Kromm]

Martin Yan is a vampire.  He looks exactly the same as he did when I watched on PBS 25 years ago.

Lucy Liu also looks mostly like she looked 25 years ago. It's kind of an Asian thing, I guess.

 

I bet Martin uses hair dye though. I wonder how different he'd look to us if his hair was the color it's supposed to be in his late 60s.

[In Pog Form]

I'm not sure I understand your point/s. Soul food was the invented name for an adaptation of african cooking styles and ingredients to the circumstances of enslaved people. Waffles were brought over by northern european immigrants who settled in the mid-Atlantic region and then brought them along as they headed south seeking economic opportunity and land and in some cases a way to keep their slaves a little longer. There are a fair number of cross-pollinations of the two.

My point is that almost every dish is a modern take on something older. We don't eat anything that's authentically old, everything we eat is a mashup of what came before. There are no original ideas, only interpretations.

[paramitch]

I grew up in MA and I never, ever heard of chicken and waffles. When I moved to southern PA, I discovered that it is a real thing around here. My jury is still out. Not two things I would ever put together on my own, and man that can be a lot of food.

 

This! While both fried chicken and waffles are worthy and amazing dishes, they still feel to me like one of those "one of these things is not like the others" trick questions. I'm sure they're delicious to some. But I just don't ever ever think the nation will be lining up for messy hard-to-cut fried-chicken on average waffles, when they can get both separately as needed, or without the messy (instantly-expensive) variation of fried chicken to decimate both. I just don't get it. I totally admit it. I love sweet and savory in many cases, but not here. The only time I've found C&W remotely appealing was here, in Kwame's option, but even as I was begging him to Fedex me 30 servings, I knew he was going home. ;-)

Edited February 29, 2016 by paramitch

[eurekagirl mOo]

HI! I'm Eurekagirl and for my Top Chef entry I'll be serving a bowl of Lucky Charms with some microwaved bacon. Did you know you can BUY microwavable bacon? You don't even have to fry it! I was going to serve you waffles but my Farm Fresh was all out of frozen ones and I don't have a clue how to make them from scratch! But be sure and vote me Top Chef...........Stupid needed to go. I never got the Kwame love. He had a rough life? Big deal. So do millions of other people. If you want to serve frozen waffles you do not belong on TC. End of rant.

[jette]

Thanks for bringing that article over, ProudMary. Isaac sure is being a gentleman about Marjorie - his mama raised him right - because in my mind trash talk is something that's done to a competitor's face to unnerve them and take them off their game...not behind their back!

 

Yes, I'm biased towards Isaac. I'm a NOLA girl and unless he actually does beat someone up with a porkchop bone, I'll be typing my support for him all day long, cher!

 

P.S. Gumbo is not hard, it just takes time because of all the chopping and of course, the roux.* There's a lot of depth of flavor in Cajun and Creole cooking and depth of flavor is something the judges seem to yammer on about all the time. I'm truly not surprised that Isaac is doing well on Top Chef. Marjorie may be a little ticked that rustic cooking has such flavor...and no tweezers are required in its plating. Bonus!

 

*So many of the recipes I was taught by my mama started with her saying, "first you make a roux..." Not true. First you chop celery, bell peppers and onion :)

Edited February 29, 2016 by jette

[Julia]

My point is that almost every dish is a modern take on something older. We don't eat anything that's authentically old, everything we eat is a mashup of what came before. There are no original ideas, only interpretations.

 

Oh, OK. I see what you're saying.

 

Yes, that's true. And one of the things I find the most interesting about 'american' food (pace that horrible woman from Texas) is that influences from thousands of miles and oceans apart, which might never have interacted, have all become part of our vocabulary.

 

unless he actually does beat someone up with a porkchop bone

 

Is that a thing?

[biakbiak]

of flavor is something the judges seem to yammer on about all the time. I'm truly not surprised that Isaac is doing well on Top Chef. Marjorie may be a little ticked that rustic cooking has such flavor...and no tweezers are required in its plating.

She doesn't seem overly refined in her plating or style ashe was just pointing out that Issac goes to that well often.

[Special K]

Thank you for this! Now when someone says they don't understand all the Richard hate, I can point to this. What. A. Douche.

 

From his blog post:

 

"Our chefs tonight not only had to quickly plan out a concept, but also pitch it, to real restaurateurs, myself included, and...attempt to sell it to the millions of people who will watch this episode."

 

Emphases mine.  Just to point out how he goes out of the way to self-aggrandize.

[RCharter]

 

And yeah, sometimes, criticisms of her do seem based on reasons that tend to get overlooked or just considered normal for male chefs.  A serious man is serious.  A serious woman looks like a bitch.  Not into that at all.

What I've seen, so far, is anytime someone says something critical about Marjorie there is a knee jerk reaction that whatever criticism a person may have of her is solely based on her being a woman.  I think thats unfortunate, because I think it creates an environment to expect less of women than we do of men.  Which leads to the same sort of assumptions that women don't want (or at least I don't think most want)... namely, that they aren't going to be as good of a hire because they can't do the job as well as a man, because they have fewer expectations to live up to.  A man dressed inappropriately can be rightfully called out for being dressed inappropriately......if you call out a woman for doing the same thing, its only because she is a woman.  If a woman is rude, you're only calling her rude because she is a woman....but if you call a man rude, thats just fine.  There are more than a few men that have RBF, although, more often than not I would call it "stank face." (which works for both sexes)

 

And I say this realizing that the majority of Marjorie's skills as a chef are great, but if you want to have your own restaurant, I think you'll need more than cooking skills, because there are a lot of great chefs out there, not all of them would be someone that should run their own restaurant.  The ability to behave respectfully to people you have to work with, in spite of how you feel about them, is just a good skill set in business.  It doesn't matter whether you have an innie or an outtie.

Edited February 29, 2016 by RCharter

[micat]

RCharter, I think you are painting with a very broad brush. To characterize the defenses of Marjorie the way you have sets up quite a straw man. But you do beat that straw man very well.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

It's Another Top Chef Restaurant War…Sort Of
Phillip returns, frozen waffles are served, lobsters are torn in two!

[Veruca Assault]

Alright, everyone needs to step back and chill. I'm cleaning up some of posts, but the comments are crossing lines. I know that Marjorie is in a position as the on,y remaining female and some question her likeability, but the discussion has gone on too long and we are stopping the back and forth conversations we are having. Please move along and focus on the episode itself.

[Sou]

I was curious to find out more about both Isaac's and Marjorie's paths to running their own kitchens. Here are a couple of the more illuminating articles I found:

http://www.nola.com/dining/index.ssf/2015/12/isaac_toups_new_orleans_toups.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/marjorie-meek-bradley-the-ripple-chef-finds-her-groove-and-makes-a-splash/2014/03/31/49ddf3fe-b55f-11e3-b899-20667de76985_story.html

[meep.meep]

One thing that I couldn't tell from the show was how much of their menu each chef was serving.  The menus were extensive, but did Isaac, for example, make 5 different gumbos?  Was Carl able to serve every combination of mediterranean food on his menu?  Or were they allowed to be "out" of certain dishes?

[Julia]

One thing that I couldn't tell from the show was how much of their menu each chef was serving.  The menus were extensive, but did Isaac, for example, make 5 different gumbos?  Was Carl able to serve every combination of mediterranean food on his menu?  Or were they allowed to be "out" of certain dishes?

 

I think they were asked to cook one representative dish and then make up the rest of the proposed menu.

[jette]

The deadly porkchop bone:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/scaredykat/451600131/

 

Edited to fix broken links.

Edited February 29, 2016 by jette

[Julia]

The deadly porkchop bone:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/scaredykat/451600131/

 

Edited to fix broken links.

 

Yeah, that looks pretty dire :)

[LotusFlower]

From his blog post:

 

"Our chefs tonight not only had to quickly plan out a concept, but also pitch it, to real restaurateurs, myself included, and...attempt to sell it to the millions of people who will watch this episode."

 

Emphases mine.  Just to point out how he goes out of the way to self-aggrandize.

That quote stood out to me as well! Always making it about himself. Unbelievable. (And note to Richard: Top Chef hasn't had millions of viewers in years). And this quote, too:

"And Carl's Savory Med. Well, it was the worst name. I know they left some Blaisisms' on the cutting room floor. What the name lacked, the food made up for. "

Blaisisms. Oy.

[DarkRaichu]

It must have killed the pink haired lady (still could not remember her name) that the very next challenge was the wok challenge.

 

Kwame, you were doing chicken and waffle concept, and 1/2 of it was from frozen???   Might as well give the judges chicken and sauce on plates...

 

"Taco bruh" Jeremy survived yet another episode... bleh

 

I guess I am now 100% team Isaac

[kittykat]

Kwame, Kwame, Kwame!!!  Why!  Why go frozen.  You were done the moment you made that choice.  Even though it saved Taco Bro Jeremy for yet another week.  Another classic case of the two guys who peaked early crashing before finals.

 

And then we have Amar and Carl, who are breaking late.   I think a Marjorie/Amar/Carl F3 is very possible.

 

I had a good laugh over "anyone but Philip" over and over.  And he actually did do right by doing everything Kwame wanted, it was just a bad vision.  DId they temporarily trade brains?

 

To whomever said upthread about questioning Carl's options all going together, I believe Tom pointed out that all the possible combos sounded great and likely contributed to his win.

[RCharter]

I liked Kwame's idea.  My question for the cooks in the house.....how could you make a waffle w/o a waffle iron.  Is there some sort of cooking method that might allow you to come up with something that is at least waffle like without the waffle iron?  Someone mentioned that the lack of the waffle iron may have spurred Kwame's decision to go with frozen waffles, but was there some other method he could have used?

[Julia]

From his blog post:

 

"Our chefs tonight not only had to quickly plan out a concept, but also pitch it, to real restaurateurs, myself included, and...attempt to sell it to the millions of people who will watch this episode."

 

Emphases mine.  Just to point out how he goes out of the way to self-aggrandize.

 

When you consider that pretty much all Blais has ever achieved IRL is creating concepts for other people to invest in and run while chasing publicity, he's probably the perfect person to judge this competition. If it involved running a restaurant, it might become a problem.

[Tess23]

My theory is that Kwame lost heart for the competition after the 10 years ago challenge and bowed out on purpose with the great waffle debacle of 2016. Such a great young man--I wish good things for his future. Don't remember the last time I've seen Tom with tears in his eyes.

 

Philip was kind of hilarious and cute when he piped up with the retort to Jeremy's 'two inch' comment. Made me laugh out loud. And good for him for being a pretty darn fine sous chef.

 

And Jason--he was funny as heck trying to fit in with his fellow 'bro. Good on you, Jason.

 

I really enjoy this season--a likable group of chefs that have some cooking chops. Not to the level of the Voltaggio bros' season, but still...

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I always liked Kwame but I think his downfall was his age...he is still so young.  Age and guile has its advantages.  Hopefully in a few years he can come back for all stars.

[RCharter]

My theory is that Kwame lost heart for the competition after the 10 years ago challenge and bowed out on purpose with the great waffle debacle of 2016. Such a great young man--I wish good things for his future. Don't remember the last time I've seen Tom with tears in his eyes.

I know I've said it a few times, but its Gregory 2.0

 

Gregory was really the one to beat, then he had a really bad challenge where he was in the bottom, and he could just never fully recover.  Just like Kwame.

 

But I felt Gregory, like Kwame was just one of those types that is really an amazing and creative chef but they both can just get into their own heads.  And their failures really, really derail them.  I really was rooting for Gregory too.....but I kinda knew he wouldn't cook again at that level after his initial failure

[JES004]

This. Does Marjorie not realize that Isaac worked for Emeril Lagasse for ten years? Emeril certainly does more than braise, stew and make gumbo - Isaac can as well, f'true! He's simply choosing to do what he knows best, thereby showcasing his restaurant, as many chefs before him have done. How many times have we heard cheftestants admit that what they've cooked is on their menu? Phillip may even have set a record for it this season...

 

I mean, she's a Mike Isabella protégé, for goodness sake! Where's the arrogance coming from? Oh wait - never mind.

Top Chef Bio-

"She has served in many top-rated restaurants and worked for an impressive list of chefs including Thomas Keller, Jose Andres and Marcus Samuelsson.  She was a semifinalist for both James Beard Foundation awards for "Rising Star" nominee and Food & Wine awards for Best New Chef in 2013 and 2014. Marjorie is a member of Les Dames d'Escoffier and the Women Chefs & Restaurateurs organizations."

 

Looks like she is more versatile than Isaac.  

Edited March 1, 2016 by JES004

[Kromm]

I liked Kwame's idea.  My question for the cooks in the house.....how could you make a waffle w/o a waffle iron.  Is there some sort of cooking method that might allow you to come up with something that is at least waffle like without the waffle iron?  Someone mentioned that the lack of the waffle iron may have spurred Kwame's decision to go with frozen waffles, but was there some other method he could have used?

The only alternative to a waffle iron would be something made of metal that could be superheated and which had at least an approximation of the waffle-pattern, the peaks and ridges. In other words... err... well I don't think there is anything. I mean a waffle iron doesn't have to be electric. The old fashioned ones looked like this:

 

 

But that's STILL a waffle iron.

[RCharter]

The only alternative to a waffle iron would be something made of metal that could be superheated and which had at least an approximation of the waffle-pattern, the peaks and ridges. In other words... err... well I don't think there is anything. I mean a waffle iron doesn't have to be electric. The old fashioned ones looked like this:

 

 

But that's STILL a waffle iron.

Thanks, I'm trying to figure out what McGuyver would do if he had to make a waffle without a waffle iron.  But it looks like it would be nearly impossible!

[FormerMod-a1]

Waffles without a waffle iron.  (One of may recipes I found, but I like this one best since it makes ridges)

 

[Kromm]

Waffles without a waffle iron.  (One of may recipes I found, but I like this one best since it makes ridges)

 

To me that's just a pancake with a few ridges. I mean it might taste pretty good, but a waffle is a waffle because of the way the waffling pattern makes every single bit crispy.

[FormerMod-a1]

Waffles are also a bit denser and firmer and and maybe even a bit crispy.  This recipe, and the others I found, do that too (and are what I thought of when considering how to make waffles w/o the waffle iron).  They are not as soft as pancakes.  So these were options other than frozen.  Same flavor, same texture, same firmness, will hold up to having something on them. 

[rho]

But there are other ways to be inventive. I'm admittedly not a fan of fried chicken or waffles. I've been to Roscoe's and I don't care for them together either. But what about chicken and waffle fries? He was promoting a sweet potato waffle, he could just as easily make crispy sweet potatoes. Plus he's got Phillip, sous chef extraordinaire. He could use a potato masher to get nice ridges out of a thick batter. Plus I'm pretty sure WF carries fancy Belgian waffles that aren't frozen but more of a dessert thing. IDK, I'm so sad to see him gone, especially over something as dumb as frozen waffles :(

[RCharter]

look at all you McGuyers!  Now quick, how do I make a bomb out of this binder clip, three rubber bands and Elmers glue?!?

 

Aquarian -- I like the looks of that waffle, agree with Kromm that traditional waffle would be better, but I think if it was between homemade waffles that you had, and frozen waffles, he should have gone with that.  I wonder if he could have used that method, made the batter a little thinner and ended up with an even crispier waffle (not burned!)

 

I think waffle fries would have been an interesting interpretation too.

[bravofan27]

I liked Kwame's idea.  My question for the cooks in the house.....how could you make a waffle w/o a waffle iron.  Is there some sort of cooking method that might allow you to come up with something that is at least waffle like without the waffle iron?  Someone mentioned that the lack of the waffle iron may have spurred Kwame's decision to go with frozen waffles, but was there some other method he could have used?

 

The thing with waffles is the heat is on the top and bottom, maybe he could have rigged something up like Marjorie did with the fryers. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they made people come up with a restaurant idea, but only one that they could produce for x amount of money and without the tools they needed. WTF? That did not make sense. 

 

As far as waffles, Kwame could have used a method called "Plan B." Maybe next time he will have one. 

[cooksdelight]

DId they temporarily trade brains?

I need to remember that for the times I am with questionable friends.

Waffle without a waffle iron.... funnel cake? It's crispy on the outside, fluffy on the inside, you can throw anything on top of it.

[FormerMod-a1]

Aquarian -- I like the looks of that waffle, agree with Kromm that traditional waffle would be better, but I think if it was between homemade waffles that you had, and frozen waffles, he should have gone with that. 

 

Yes, and the question was "Can you make waffles without a waffle iron?" and the answer is YES!  That said, he probably would have been better rethinking the dish, but no waffle iron is definitely not limiting when it comes to waffles.

[Kromm]

Waffle without a waffle iron.... funnel cake? It's crispy on the outside, fluffy on the inside, you can throw anything on top of it.

It's not the worst idea.

While the dough would be different, and it wouldn't be able to soak up syrup, at least it would be crispy all around.

[Texasmom1970]

Damn Kwame, not smart. As soon as he said he was gonna use frozen waffles I hollered I'm gonna call it time of death. There is no recovering from that faux pas!