S04.E15: Taken

[kismet]

This episode really muddied the waters on the issue of Oliver going back to CC. Because he specifically told Felicity he didn't want a relationship with William if she didn't have the chance of having a relationship with the kid. That does not sound like treks to CC. Or was it meant to be that he didn't want a father/son relationship and was going with mommy's friend until he got the clear to tell Felicity? I honestly don't get it.

I really don't think he went to CC. After this episode, I believe the reference of trips to CC was just the crossover. I feel like MG was trolling the audience. Or perhaps it was his personal head canon that OQ was visiting. But the writers knew better than to do that. Honestly sometimes I don't think MG actually watches his own show. Or if he does, he certainly has some convenient memory lapses.

So for me in actual show canon since nobody specifically referenced him visiting BM/W besides that one time it never happened. One would think that BM would have mentioned something about the visits, but she didn't. W might be dumb, but even dumb people recognize people they've seen more than once. And in the police station there was no recognition. I don't even remember OQ interacting with W post rescue at all.

[bijoux]

No, they didn't interact. He witnessed William switching aliances to Green Arrow, but he was on the sidelines.

No, they didn't interact. He witnessed William switching aliances to Green Arrow, but he was on the sidelines.

[AyChihuahua]

No, they didn't interact. He witnessed William switching aliances to Green Arrow, but he was on the sidelines.

But, but, SA looooooooooooves playing a father!?! So, does being a father mean 30 seconds with dollies and then staring from 20 feet away?

 

DUMB FOREVER.

Edited February 26, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think they did some serious backtracking in this episode to make Oliver look as innocent as possible. But I also think that line "I have been going back and forth to CC" was intended to show he has been visiting the child. Also because he was talking about not being there for Thea in that episode but in the crossover she was with him so it wouldn't make sense to list going to CC as an activity that distracted him from looking after Thea if she was with him the whole time.

[ComicFan777]

I thought MG already confirmed that Oliver was going back and forth from Central City and was lying about it.  He was in charge of the this particular episode based on the script cover page.

[AyChihuahua]

I thought MG already confirmed that Oliver was going back and forth from Central City and was lying about it.  He was in charge of the this particular episode based on the script cover page.

He answered a question on Tumblr that was something like: "How is Oliver taking time out of his busy schedule to go to CC to visit his son without anyone noticing?" And his response assumed the correctness of the fact in the question. In other words, if the questioner had been wrong about Oliver going to CC to visit the kid, MG would have said so. Like if I ask "Why did you beat your wife" and you did not in fact beat your wife, you're not going to start answering the "why" of it all...you're going to say you didn't beat your wife.

 

So yeah, Oliver was totally visiting the kid, the show realized the backlash was hardcore, they pulled back. I'm not sure it's a full retcon, but it's definitely a muddying of the waters.

Edited February 26, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I also find it hilarious that will tell the kid at 18 that his father's Oliver Queen and also, btw, the freaking Green Arrow. First of all, that kid is dumb as a doorknob, no reason to think he won't still be dumb as a doorknob at 18. Second, nearly every 18-year-old is dumb as a doorknob ANYWAY, that is not information to dump on them and expect them to handle/keep to themselves. Third, what he's totally unsafe as the GA's kid at 17.5, but suddenly sooper-safe at precisely 18? Like the calendar ticks over and he develops a cloak of impermeability?

HA, this SL is so dumb!

It's a reverse Harry Potter syndrome. At 18 the magical always in danger curse is lifted and he becomes 100% SAFE. You know until he searches for OQ and then becomes target #1.

[kismet]

To be fair to William, Darhk had more face to face encounters with both Oliver and GA than the kid did, and he hasn't been able to figure it out.

Seriously that's so ridiculous! I first I thought he was just playing the fool. But now I believe he doesn't actually know wjich just baffled my mind.

[kismet]

Tumblr responses are not show canon.

Show canon has OQ saying one nebulous line. No in show or in text confirmation of any visits. It's not retconning, because it was never established in show that he visited CC to see BM/W.

But like everything about this storyline it was poorly handled & thought out. So it was simply open for interpretation. If the visits or confirmation of the visits showup in any of the Flarrowverse shows or comics then it is canon. MG is a powerful force on the show but luckily his headcanon is not always show canon.

[quarks]

I don't think that the episode was arguing that Oliver was in the right, although Thea did in the previous episode. Sure, Diggle - usually the voice of reason and morality on this show - supported Oliver, but that voice of reason and morality also thought that Oliver could have a relationship with his kid. Oliver chose to listen to Vixen instead. The episode also let Felicity point out how dumb this whole thing was, and let Laurel point out that Oliver should have been honest. I'm pretty sure that for once, Arrow wanted us to agree with Laurel.

 

And I didn't think Oliver got off scot-free - he had to close down his mayoral campaign (though it seems that actually hurt Alex more than him), something that seemed to mean a great deal to him, and he lost Felicity, if only temporarily. And he's not getting to see his son, all things that in at least one alternative future leave him sad and alone in a very messy cave with just one arm. 

 

Who did get off scot-free, apart from spending a couple days thinking that her son was kidnapped, and having to move? Samantha. And this in an episode where pretty much every other character ended up suffering because of her actions.  Her failure to inform Oliver about the kidnapping in a timely manner was one reason Damien got an edge on Oliver and was able to force Oliver to give up his mayoral campaign. Thanks, Samantha! This put Alex and others out of work. Thanks, Samantha! She put Thea in an uncomfortable position. Thanks, Samantha! She forced Vixen to travel from Detroit and risk her life, meanwhile leaving various people in Detroit without protection from magical animals. Thanks, Samantha!  This resulted in Damien losing a totem that he really really likes a lot, and I mean, a lot. Thanks, Samantha! She helped destroy Oliver and Felicity's relationship with her ultimatum, leaving both of them devastated. Thanks, Samantha!  She upset Laurel. Thanks, Samantha! (I kinda mean it this time.) Laurel then had to turn around and try to help rescue the kid of two people who had been complete jerks to her, which forced me to feel sympathetic towards Laurel. Thanks, Samantha!   

 

I mean, technically, we can even blame her for the Thea/Malcolm fight which made Malcolm all angry and hurt. Sure, 99% of that was Malcolm's fault, but to be completely fair to Malcolm, he wouldn't have had a kid to kidnap if Samantha hadn't chosen to sleep with her friend's boyfriend in the first place. Thanks, Samantha!  

 

And yet, after all this, she got away scot-free, with the thing she wanted from the very beginning - William all to herself. On a show where a group of sex slaves are having to follow a zombie ghost into a cave largely because three years earlier Oliver decided to sleep with his girlfriend's sister.

 

It does seem unfair. 

[Starfish35]

On a show where a group of sex slaves are having to follow a zombie ghost into a cave

Sex slaves? Did I miss something somewhere?

Edited February 27, 2016 by Starfish35

[kismet]

I don't think that the episode was arguing that Oliver was in the right, although Thea did in the previous episode. Sure, Diggle - usually the voice of reason and morality on this show - supported Oliver, but that voice of reason and morality also thought that Oliver could have a relationship with his kid. Oliver chose to listen to Vixen instead. The episode also let Felicity point out how dumb this whole thing was, and let Laurel point out that Oliver should have been honest. I'm pretty sure that for once, Arrow wanted us to agree with Laurel.

 

And I didn't think Oliver got off scot-free - he had to close down his mayoral campaign (though it seems that actually hurt Alex more than him), something that seemed to mean a great deal to him, and he lost Felicity, if only temporarily. And he's not getting to see his son, all things that in at least one alternative future leave him sad and alone in a very messy cave with just one arm. 

 

Who did get off scot-free, apart from spending a couple days thinking that her son was kidnapped, and having to move? Samantha. And this in an episode where pretty much every other character ended up suffering because of her actions.  Her failure to inform Oliver about the kidnapping in a timely manner was one reason Damien got an edge on Oliver and was able to force Oliver to give up his mayoral campaign. Thanks, Samantha! This put Alex and others out of work. Thanks, Samantha! She put Thea in an uncomfortable position. Thanks, Samantha! She forced Vixen to travel from Detroit and risk her life, meanwhile leaving various people in Detroit without protection from magical animals. Thanks, Samantha!  This resulted in Damien losing a totem that he really really likes a lot, and I mean, a lot. Thanks, Samantha! She helped destroy Oliver and Felicity's relationship with her ultimatum, leaving both of them devastated. Thanks, Samantha!  She upset Laurel. Thanks, Samantha! (I kinda mean it this time.) Laurel then had to turn around and try to help rescue the kid of two people who had been complete jerks to her, which forced me to feel sympathetic towards Laurel. Thanks, Samantha!   

 

I mean, technically, we can even blame her for the Thea/Malcolm fight which made Malcolm all angry and hurt. Sure, 99% of that was Malcolm's fault, but to be completely fair to Malcolm, he wouldn't have had a kid to kidnap if Samantha hadn't chosen to sleep with her friend's boyfriend in the first place. Thanks, Samantha!  

 

And yet, after all this, she got away scot-free, with the thing she wanted from the very beginning - William all to herself. On a show where a group of sex slaves are having to follow a zombie ghost into a cave largely because three years earlier Oliver decided to sleep with his girlfriend's sister.

 

It does seem unfair. 

Agree with everything except the sex slaves part. It's Malcolm's fault OQ was on that island... so it really is all his fault. But the difference is I'm more angry at the fact that MM has pretty gone scott-free for years. Samantha for all of her faults was trying to protect her kid. I mean she still needs to face some consequences but at least her intentions were honorable even if her approach was a little dishonorable. MM's intentions were never honorable, even in his delusional hero's journey.

 

Also, I do wonder what would the island do if we didn't have OQ magical tattoo?? Seriously, who would be the magical one permitted to pass through the caves of magical mysticism?? I do wonder what legendary story/show they will steal from next... it's only a matter of time before they need some other storyline to heavily borrow from.

[quarks]

Sex slaves? Did I miss something somewhere?

 

I think I meant to type drug slaves.

 

But honestly, they could well be sex slaves too and I just forgot the scene that brought that up. I don't really remember most of the flashbacks except for Constantine, the shark, the magic rock and now the zombies.  It's very possible that everyone on Evil Island had an orgy back in episode 7 and I glazed right over it.

Edited February 27, 2016 by quarks

[statsgirl]

I think the slaves would have been on the island even if Oliver had never landed there. So I can't blame him for that.  (What I wonder about is how Fyers & Co. missed seeing them for all that time, or did Shadowspire seize the moment when Fyers got blowed up?)

 

There is lots to blame Oliver for in this episode though. Right now, it's that he listened to Vixen, who he knows for all of a few minutes, over Diggle who has been his staunch partner for 3 1/2 years, or Felicity who he's going to marry and who knows what it's like to grow up without a father.  The two situations, Vixen's and William's aren't even comparable because there is no magic in William as there is in Mari.

 

But then again, Oliver listened to Samantha and that's why he's in this mess with Felicity at all.
 

 

I really don't think he went to CC. After this episode, I believe the reference of trips to CC was just the crossover.

 

How did Malcolm know about William then?  Unless he had Oliver followed even way back then (and why would he since they were on the same side?) how did he know that Oliver visited William?

Edited February 27, 2016 by statsgirl

[AudienceofOne]

The only thing I have to say that hasn't already been said is how tired I am of this stupid mysticism rubbish. This show was so much better when it didn't have magic in it.

[AyChihuahua]

I think the slaves would have been on the island even if Oliver had never landed there. So I can't blame him for that.  (What I wonder about is how Fyers & Co. missed seeing them for all that time, or did Shadowspire seize the moment when Fyers got blowed up?)

 

There is lots to blame Oliver for in this episode though. Right now, it's that he listened to Vixen, who he knows for all of a few minutes, over Diggle who has been his staunch partner for 3 1/2 years, or Felicity who he's going to marry and who knows what it's like to grow up without a father.  The two situations, Vixen's and William's aren't even comparable because there is no magic in William as there is in Mari.

 

But then again, Oliver listened to Samantha and that's why he's in this mess with Felicity at all.

I think you are the one who pointed out that basically, whoever advises him LAST, wins.

 

Person 1: Do this, Oliver.

Oliver: Okay!

 

Person 2: No, do this diametrically opposite thing, Oliver!

Oliver: Okay!

 

Person 3: No no, do this other other thing, Oliver!

Oliver: Okay!

 

Person 1: Oliver, I told you what to do. Do what I already told you.

Oliver: Okay!

 

Circumstances occur to make final decision necessary. Person 1 wins!

 

He and HIS SON are just dumb as doorknobs. And not the fancy turning ones, either. I'm talking the fake ones that are basically just cabinet pulls. 

[Password]

I was thinking yesterday Samantha is the best villain Arrow has ever had. No one questioned her ridiculous logic and even FELICITY agreed it was the right thing to do. Malcolm MERLYN (deservedly) gets dirty looks from Felicity but baby mama, who doesn't even apologise for screwing up their relationship with her ultimatum, gets a warm smile.

I can't with Samantha.

[KirkB]

You could be on to something. Directly or indirectly Samantha has managed to fracture part of Team Arrow and Thea's 'relationship' with Malcolm, made Dark lose his powers, and gotten Oliver out of the running for Mayor. While she gets her kid and a vacation.  :)

Edited February 27, 2016 by KirkB

[bijoux]

Not that I'm pro-Samantha, but turning Thea against Malcolm definitely goes in the plus column in my book.

[Sasha]

Who did get off scot-free, apart from spending a couple days thinking that her son was kidnapped, and having to move? Samantha. And this in an episode where pretty much every other character ended up suffering because of her actions.

It just infuriates me that they have tried to portray Samantha in a sympathic light. We are supposed to believe that she lied all these years to protect her son from party boy Oliver Queen. She DID NOT lie to Oliver for ten years and keep this baby a secret. She told him she was pregnant. Bitch bought a pregnancy test and a stack of bridal magazines hoping to be Mrs. Oliver Queen. Once her skank ass came up against Moira she backed down and took off with one check for a million and another million waiting for her in Central City. Two checks. What do you think Felicity would have done in that situation? Told Moria to kiss her ass. Her and Momma Smoak would have told the Queens to fuck off!

More importanly, Felicity would have never lied and told Oliver the baby died. Who does that? And over the phone? I rewatched that scene and Oliver put on a brave face but he was hurt. Maybe a little relieved and feeling guilty but he was affected. SA actually did a nice job in that scene. I think Oliver would have stepped up and been a good Dad. Look at how much Thea means to him. Samantha took that away from him.

Maybe if she had told the truth then he never would have gotten on that boat with Sara. I'm more than happy to blame Samantha for everything bad that's happened to Oliver. She does not get to play the wounded party. Even Iris's mother on the Flash had to beg for forgiveness and die of cancer for redemption. I just could not stomach Samatha in this episode. I felt no sympathy for her.

I wanted to bitch slap Thea, Diggle, Laurel and even Barry for their zero loyalty to Felicity. At least Oliver lost the kid and Felicity. He deserved it but Felicity got screwed by everyone. Here she is leaving physical therapy devastated she still can't walk. She opens her heart up to Oliver that she wants to walk down the aisle at their wedding. What a kick in the gut to hear about the kid and then hear how many people knew. Some of those she thought were her friends. She still put on her game face and was kind to Samantha! That is why Felicity Smoak is my favorite character. She needs to take her new legs and walk on over to Supernatural. I hear they are looking for a new "women of letters" and one weekend with Dean Winchester will make her forget all about Oliver Queen.

[KirkB]

Not that I'm pro-Samantha, but turning Thea against Malcolm definitely goes in the plus column in my book.

 

 

I would agree, except turning Thea against Malcolm has elevated Malcolm to joining Dark and HIVE and working more directly against Oliver and company. I think the only reason he hasn't flat out revealed Oliver as the Green Arrow is because it would put Thea in Dark's crosshairs and on some twisted level he does love her, even if I have a hard time reconciling that with the fact he drugged her and brainwashed her into killing her friend.

[bijoux]

But Malcolm was already working with Darhk and HIVE before it was revealed he kidnapped William and Thea turned on him. I'm not sure I follow.

[AyChihuahua]

It just infuriates me that they have tried to portray Samantha in a sympathic light. We are supposed to believe that she lied all these years to protect her son from party boy Oliver Queen. She DID NOT lie to Oliver for ten years and keep this baby a secret. She told him she was pregnant. Bitch bought a pregnancy test and a stack of bridal magazines hoping to be Mrs. Oliver Queen. Once her skank ass came up against Moira she backed down and took off with one check for a million and another million waiting for her in Central City. Two checks. What do you think Felicity would have done in that situation? Told Moria to kiss her ass. Her and Momma Smoak would have told the Queens to fuck off!

...

I wanted to bitch slap Thea, Diggle, Laurel and even Barry for their zero loyalty to Felicity. At least Oliver lost the kid and Felicity. He deserved it but Felicity got screwed by everyone. Here she is leaving physical therapy devastated she still can't walk. She opens her heart up to Oliver that she wants to walk down the aisle at their wedding. What a kick in the gut to hear about the kid and then hear how many people knew. Some of those she thought were her friends. She still put on her game face and was kind to Samantha! That is why Felicity Smoak is my favorite character. She needs to take her new legs and walk on over to Supernatural. I hear they are looking for a new "women of letters" and one weekend with Dean Winchester will make her forget all about Oliver Queen.

I like you. Let's be best friends! (And I'll never sleep with your boyfriend and then act like the Virgin Mary.)

 

You know, it's funny, there were a lot of discussions here re whether she had to have known Oliver had a girlfriend. Instead of leaving it unclear, they made her Laurel's friend, so she DAMN SURE knew, but slept with him anyway. That makes her look EVEN WORSE, yet they still tried to portray her as the sinless Virgin Mary. So totally bizarre, and really primitive, to portray her as having worth over everyone else, despite her HUGE GINORMOUS I'M TRYING NOT TO CALL HER NAMES character flaws, just bc she popped out his kid. That's some medieval thinking right there.

Edited February 27, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[BunsenBurner]

For some reason Felicity's hair in this episode bothered me, it was straight.  Thinking it over I wondered if her hair was straight when she left Oliver in the alley last season and I believe it was. I'll take straight down as well as in her ponytail. I wonder if over time she/Emily decided that an emotional downturn requires this look. I would think that this episode was the straightest that I've seen except for the flash forward where her hair is also straight.  When she is sad does she go for a different look or does the makeup dept. do this.  Was her hair more noticeably straight in this last show because it was emotionally as well as physically taxing for her? 

[Sasha]

I like you. Let's be best friends! (And I'll never sleep with your boyfriend and then act like the Virgin Mary.).

Sounds like a plan. Sisters before Misters! Or my favorite, "a friend will hire you a lawyer but a best friend will help you hide the body". I know where we can find an empty grave for miss samantha.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sasha

[Trini]

 

... Why not call up Flash?

 

Yes, Barry and Oliver are friends in the same universe, but Flash zipping in whenever Green Arrow gets into an extra-tough situation is not the Arrow show that you* want.

 

*(general 'you')

[KirkB]

You know, prior to this episode I kind of figured Dark showed up at the house, did a whammy on Samantha and/or William, and got the kid to come with him. But it turns out Malcolm did it. What? Unless he drugged the kid (which I wouldn't put past him) how did a one-armed stranger show up at his house and convince him to come to another stranger's house for a play date? And where the hell was Samantha during this?

Edited February 28, 2016 by KirkB

[JenMD]

Samantha was there.  She mentioned she went upstairs to get him for dinner and he was gone, no sign of a struggle.

[calliope1975]

You know, prior to this episode I kind of figured Dark showed up at the house, did a whammy on Samantha and/or William, and got the kid to come with him. But it turns out Malcolm did it. What? Unless he drugged the kid (which I wouldn't put past him) how did a one-armed stranger show up at his house and convince him to come to another stranger's house for a play date? And where the hell was Samantha during this?

 

And the kid didn't question any of this? What "friend of mom's" comes to take you when you know your mom is home? Kid's a dolt. 

[dtissagirl]

I wanna see the Malcolm-demon spawn road trip from Central City to Star City. "Are we there yet?" "What about now?"

[looptab]

Malcolm is the Magician. He did that trick with the coin and won him over. LoL.

They even had the courage to say that the kid 'is a tough one', hahah.

[apinknightmare]

I wanna see the Malcolm-demon spawn road trip from Central City to Star City. "Are we there yet?" "What about now?"

He probably colored the whole way there, an activity he never seems to tire of, bless his simple soul.

[dtissagirl]

Gosh, I hope Malcolm packed snacks, 'cause he abducted demon spawn before dinner.

[AyChihuahua]

He probably colored the whole way there, an activity he never seems to tire of, bless his simple soul.

Was he coloring in that ransom pic? I asked, but no answer, but yeah, that's normal 10-year-old behavior. Sure. Along with being fine about being kidnapped from his bedroom by a one-armed man and handed over to another dude he didn't know. And sitting in his bedroom alone playing with dollies.

 

Oliver really didn't even need a DNA test to know that kid was his son.

Edited March 2, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[bijoux]

As far as I could tell, yes. Or possibly drawing.

[fantique]

Came over to see if Arrow was still a MESS. Still is? Goooood. Bye, see you guys after the finale.

[Duke Silver]

And the kid didn't question any of this? What "friend of mom's" comes to take you when you know your mom is home? Kid's a dolt. 

 

Like father, like son.

[statsgirl]

Drawing would at least be more age-appropriate.  But a 10 year old boy coloring?

[Delphi]

Drawing would at least be more age-appropriate. But a 10 year old boy coloring?

What? Really? I still colour! Constantly. Its super relaxing. I just got more complicated books as I aged.

Also at ten I still played with my action figures, often by myself when my friends weren't around. My imagination was enough to make it fun.

Don't get me wrong, I hate William and he's an idiot for going with Malcolm but a lot of his actions are totally normal for ten year olds.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Delphi

[AyChihuahua]

It's not just the coloring, just playing alone with the action figures, or just having no clue that a one-armed man grabbing him from his bedroom is a problem (although that last one is a prettttty good indicator he's dumb all by itself). It's all those things together. Especially the last.

[festivus]

In proving it is opposite day – *I LIKED LAUREL. I mean, only in that scene with her father, but that’s progress, people. I thought she had a right to be mad, and I even liked KC’s acting. (*She’s totally dying.)

 

Yeah that was about the only good scene in the whole episode. I also liked Thea and Malcolm but mainly because they're both good actors. I used to actively root for Laurel's death but now I'm thinking she'll be the lucky one if she gets off this suckass show.

[AudienceofOne]

It's not just the coloring, just playing alone with the action figures, or just having no clue that a one-armed man grabbing him from his bedroom is a problem (although that last one is a prettttty good indicator he's dumb all by itself). It's all those things together. Especially the last.

 

Hi William, I'm a friend of Mummy's. I've come to take you to some random stranger's house for you to stay for a while. It's ok, Mummy knows about it and it's cool. Now, she's downstairs so we're just going to go out this window. Yep, just like that. Like you always do when a strange man comes into your bedroom and takes you away.

[rtalive]

Wow what happened with this show. It was supposed to be for grown-ups, and now I have the feeling I am watching cartoon network. With all this action figure promotions and animated action. And references to total nonsensical things like - Constantine is in Hell.

In the end I was puzzled - should I cry - because it was so sad for Oliver to loose everything again, or should I laugh because it was so full of unrealistic sh$$$.

[tv echo]

Apologies that Should've Been Made in 415 But Weren't:

 

• Oliver (to Felicity) - "I'm sorry I didn't tell you about William.  I'm sorry I lied to you about [whatever excuse used when traveling to Central City].  I'm sorry I shut you out."

 

• Oliver (to Diggle, Felicity, Laurel and Thea) - "I'm sorry I told Samantha about your secret identities and the location of our lair without getting your agreement first."

 

• Oliver (to Laurel) - "I'm sorry I cheated on you and lied to you when we were dating 10 years ago."

 

• Samantha (to Oliver) - "I'm sorry I lied to you 10 years ago when I told you our baby died. I'm sorry I kept our son a secret from you for 10 years.  I'm sorry I made you promise not to tell Felicity about William as a condition to seeing your son."

 

• Samantha (to Felicity) - "I'm sorry I made Oliver promise not to tell you about William in order for him to see his son, when I knew it would damage your relationship."

 

• Thea (to Felicity) - "I'm sorry I encouraged my brother to continue lying to you and deceiving you about his son, when I know better than anyone how much it hurts to have those I love lie to me and keep secrets from me."

 

Any others?

Edited March 1, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Oliver did apologize and it got cut for some reason, because when Felicity breaks up with him, she says, "but you were right, you should've told me" (about William) and I don't recall him ever saying that? Could be mistaken, I've blocked a lot of it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

No, he never said that. You're probably right, it might have got cut.

[Duke Silver]

Apologies that Should've Been Made in 415 But Weren't:

 

• Oliver (to Felicity) - "I'm sorry I didn't tell you about William.  I'm sorry I lied to you about [whatever excuse used when traveling to Central City].  I'm sorry I shut you out."

 

• Oliver (to Diggle, Felicity, Laurel and Thea) - "I'm sorry I told Samantha about your secret identities and the location of our lair without getting your agreement first."

 

• Oliver (to Laurel) - "I'm sorry I cheated on you and lied to you when we were dating 10 years ago."

 

• Samantha (to Oliver) - "I'm sorry I lied to you 10 years ago when I told you our baby died. I'm sorry I kept our son a secret from you for 10 years.  I'm sorry I made you promise not to tell Felicity about William as a condition to seeing your son."

 

• Samantha (to Felicity) - "I'm sorry I made Oliver promise not to tell you about William in order for him to see his son, when I knew it would damage your relationship."

 

• Thea (to Felicity) - "I'm sorry I encouraged my brother to continue lying to you and deceiving you about his son, when I know better than anyone how much it hurts to have those I love lie to me and keep secrets from me."

 

Any others?

 

The showrunners (to people who are watching this dreck)?

[ComicFan777]

Many characters have gone out-of-character to justify Oliver's actions.  From his reactions, even at the time of breakup, I am not entirely sure what was going on in his mind.  Do you think Oliver feels like he made a real mistake?  He defended BM's actions and he didn't apologize to Felicity, so does he feel like he did anything wrong or do you think he thinks he was entirely justified in his actions?  If Oliver thinks that he did nothing wrong to Felicity, then would he even try to change at all in the future?

[AyChihuahua]

Many characters have gone out-of-character to justify Oliver's actions.  From his reactions, even at the time of breakup, I am not entirely sure what was going on in his mind.  Do you think Oliver feels like he made a real mistake?  He defended BM's actions and he didn't apologize to Felicity, so does he feel like he did anything wrong or do you think he thinks he was entirely justified in his actions?  If Oliver thinks that he did nothing wrong to Felicity, then would he even try to change at all in the future?

My personal theory is that they're not going to have anyone say he lied, or have anyone say he was wrong. Instead they're going to focus on "not being a good partner." That way they can avoid the hero of the show being, well, a lying sack of shit, and instead frame it as him needing to learn to be a good partner. That will, implicitly, include no more lying. So basically they'll fix the lying without ever calling it lying.

 

It's pathetic and sad and weak, but it gets him to the same place, so I am going to try to be okay with it.

[BunsenBurner]

I have not really commented on this episode because I have been waiting for my brother's reaction since he is in a wheelchair. He told me that he thought the show portrayed Felicity's plight very well. Her struggles though few were well done and her recovery from the implant went as he expected, way too fast and no problem in getting up and walking away Because Comics. His only complaint was that she should have taken the wheelchair with her because she could have fallen once she walked out the door and Oliver would not have been able to help her. He was impressed with Emily's portrayal of paralysis in a comic book world and really did not expect the writers of Arrow to show as much as they did since she does not wear a mask.