S04.E15: Taken

[TwistedandBored]

So, this episode happened. I wasn't mad during the episode just bored by how the show was bending over backwards to help the viewers see Oliver was right to lie to everyone. Last week Thea took the hit in saying Oliver was right to do what he did and last night it was Diggle.

 

I remember at one point being sad Felicity had no one to speak to about this secret Oliver kept from her. But other than that, everything happened as I thought they would. Hopefully, she can work more with Curtis from now on and less with TA. I want her to develop something cool. 

 

The de-powering of DD felt underwhelming as well. It was just soo freaking easy. 

[Cthulhudrew]

And speaking of Thea, I'd care more about her having it out with Malcolm if I thought it'd stick.  I hope it does, but I hope for a lot of things with this show and am continually let down.  So...

 

I still think the best possible resolution for her post-resurrection bloodlust issues would have been for the writers to determine that it wasn't Ra's al Ghul she needed to get revenge upon (as the one who had caused her death), but instead Malcolm, as the ultimate instigator behind her death by manipulating/mind-controlling her into killing Sara in the first place. Even if they didn't have her actually kill him to gain that resolution, but merely had her finally determine that "you're dead to me" or somesuch, would have been much more satisfying to that story and the arc of Merlyn's manipulations in general.

[blackwing]

I really hope this is the last we have seen of Damien Dahrk.  He increasingly became a tired cartoon, and it was frustrating.  He's all powerful, they can't stop him, he will use his TK and choke them or fling them or hold them blah blah blah.  I don't understand why Oliver didn't ask for help weeks or months ago.  Why not call up Flash?  "Hey Barry, zip in and out of all of Dahrk's lairs and find William for us.  Oh and by the way, if you see this idol looking thingy, grab it so we can smash it later."

 

No repercussions for Ruve?  Why not expose her as the wife of Damien Darhk, the evil crime lord and reputed leader of the Hive / Ghosts / whatever they are known as?  How come Oliver didn't retract his dropping out?  If he doesn't run for mayor, will the city really be left with Ruve?

[KenyaJ]

What makes this interesting to me is this is about what Felicity wants to be as a partner. It's actually more about herself than it is about Oliver. She wants to be able to support her partner emotionally when he needs that. And she was missing so much information here, that she couldn't even see she wasn't being allowed to be the partner she wants to be.

 

It's a good call back to the end of the crossover when she could tell something was bothering Oliver and she told him that being in a committed relationship made her want to be the best possible teammate she could be, but she couldn't do that if he wouldn't let her in. And if you keep giving 100% of your self and getting back 60% in return, eventually you're gonna get sick of it and wonder what's the point. Stupid Oliver. Stupid writers.

[benteen]

Thea should have been done with her father once she learned Malcolm manipulated her into killing Sara.

 

This whole Son of Oliver storyline was a bad storyline.  It wasn't about Oliver being a father.  We only really saw him with William once.  This was about creating a situation to break him and Felicity up and intensify his manpain. 

[tv echo]

I don't recall if this was raised already, but...

 

When Darhk confronted Oliver & Felicity at the beginning, why didn't Darhk just use his Darth Vader choking powers to kill them both then and there?

[Delphi]

What the fuck did I just watch?

That end scene was the laziest breakup ending paralyze heal I've ever seen. Honestly, just having Felicity move her feet would have been enough. They went through all the trouble of blowing out her spine, why not take time with recovery?

I love Thea. I love her stunts, I love her shouting at Merlyn. I love Felicity glaring at her. I've also decided that Thea is just indiscriminately killing Hive agents giving no fucks as her arrows always seem to get the heart.

I liked Laurel, even though she was awfully friendly to a fashion designer she hasn't met before.

I liked Vixen and didn't think the cgi was too bad, but easy to please.

[dtissagirl]

It's a good call back to the end of the crossover when she could tell something was bothering Oliver and she told him that being in a committed relationship made her want to be the best possible teammate she could be, but she couldn't do that if he wouldn't let her in. And if you keep giving 100% of your self and getting back 60% in return, eventually you're gonna get sick of it and wonder what's the point. Stupid Oliver. Stupid writers.

 

This is a most excellent point. I had forgotten about that conversation, thank you for the reminder. Will you look at that, Felicity actually ended this moronic storyline with her consistency as a character unscathed.

[MadMouse]

Thea should have been done with her father once she learned Malcolm manipulated her into killing Sara.

 

This whole Son of Oliver storyline was a bad storyline.  It wasn't about Oliver being a father.  We only really saw him with William once.  This was about creating a situation to break him and Felicity up and intensify his manpain. 

It made sense until it was revealed he wasn't Connor Hawke.

[Lady Calypso]

Oh! Now I have more thoughts!

 

I figured out why the break up scene bugged me more than anything. It's not necessarily because Felicity walked out....although that bugged me. I mean, we didn't even see her have her surgery, but she obviously just had it in the last 48 hours (a little bit on Samantha later with this). It was the editing of her going from standing up to getting to the door. We didn't watch her struggle. We didn't get to watch her struggle to get to the door to walk out. The emotional impact kind of just....failed, all because of the editing of that last half of the scene. Which is weird, because Gregory Smith is a really great director and he does better than this. I know they had to cut some of that scene for time, but I think they edited it too badly for it to mean anything to me. 

 

It also sucked because we could see the realization on both of their faces when she had movement in her leg, and we had Oliver say Felicity's name in wonderment....but because of the context of the scene, neither could actually get to be happy that she could move. So her walking lost all emotional impact just because I think they shouldn't have done it for the drama. Or, they should have edited it better. We should have seen her struggle more to walk. Except she didn't; in fact, we see her walking normally in that last shot as she opens the door and walks out. Oliver didn't get up once to help her, even though we did see him start to stand up for a brief moment and decided against it. It just made Oliver look like a dick. Again, would have been better if Felicity had said 'Don't' or something but have Oliver still want to help. 

 

So yeah, that's what I think, which is a shame because the scene had an emotional beat, but it fell short because of the walking part.

 

Also, I do have serious qualms about Baby Mama/Samantha. I realize that her first initial scene in the campaign office pissed me off more. Watching it again, I realize how idiotic she is made to look.

 

The first thing she says to Oliver is "Have you heard from William? Do you know where he is?". First off, why would Oliver hear from William? She very well knows that Oliver just met the kid a few months ago. Why in the world would she think that he would? She's all panicked that he's gone, but she never tried to call him to let him know that his son has been missing. If I had been her, I would have called Oliver first thing to let him know. If she thought that he might have heard from William, she should have had him called before Barry. She should have called anyone and everyone she knew to know if they've heard from William. 

 

Oh, and then the next thing she does? She blames Oliver for having him kidnapped. I know that she's upset and she's scared that William is gone, but telling Oliver that he is the reason for William's disappearance isn't going to do anything. First off, Oliver's in Star City. They were in Central City. Oliver is no Flash; what would he have done? Also, I have to point out that even if Oliver hadn't known about William, Thea probably would have still found out about William through the records. Oliver would have found out regardless of all of this. Now, Malcolm might not have known, and neither had Damien, but this is still a point I had to point out. 

 

So, she puts all the blame on Oliver, but if she thought this was because of him, why wouldn't she contact Oliver immediately instead of waiting for Barry Allen to talk to her? I guess it's because before Barry, she didn't assume it had anything to do with Oliver. But then again, what did Barry even tell her to make her think this is all Oliver's fault? Then, when Oliver asks Samantha what happened, she won't tell because she's stubborn and she apparently wants to waste more time. Again, I know that she's scared and all that, but her attitude toward Oliver just put me off of her immediately. Assuming that Oliver has 'her' son (it literally takes her most of the episode to even acknowledge that he is William's parent too) just goes to show how selfish she really is.

 

Seeing how pissed off she was that Barry knew about their kid and not liking that Oliver would even dare tell anyone makes me see that Oliver was going to get yelled at, regardless of him telling Felicity earlier or not. 

 

Even with her 'apology' to Felicity later on and putting the blame on herself, that scene particularly got me angry. 

[Guest]

I just realized I have no idea what happened in the flashbacks. I actually tuned them out. LOL. 

[Delphi]

I just realized I have no idea what happened in the flashbacks. I actually tuned them out. LOL.

I just fast forward them. Conklin turned into a zombie and ate Poppy. Or something like that.

[Password]

She never apologised. She justified Oliver lying, but never did an "I'm sorry I shouldn't have asked him to do that" leave her lips.

I forget, did baby mama say she didn't knew if she could trust Oliver? So she asked him to lie to prove he's trustworthy right? Hm.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Password

[apinknightmare]

I just realized I have no idea what happened in the flashbacks. I actually tuned them out. LOL.

Something kind of like this, but with that redneck dude as a zombie:

http://youtu.be/90UPb4i3SxQ

Edited February 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[blackwing]

I really enjoyed the appearance of Vixen and thought Oliver's reference to their "animated meeting" (via the animated series online on CW Seed) was funny.  I like Megalyn Echisomethingsomething (I noticed she is now going by "Megalyn E.K." haha much the same way her onscreen 4400 father shortened his name from Masherasomethingsomethingsomethingsomething Ali to something much shorter).  I would rather she get added to the regular cast and lose Laurel.  Or can she replace the horrible Kendra / Hawkgirl on Legends of Tomorrow?  That actress is the pits.

 

I just realized I have no idea what happened in the flashbacks. I actually tuned them out. LOL. 

I don't fully know either, other than it's basically Bad Guy wants Oliver to get him some doohickey from that cave.  The cave spirit took on the image of that dead henchman, the spirit declared Oliver worthy, and he gets to go into the cave and get the doohickey.  It's all very "Aladdin".  "Throw me the lamp!"

[arjumand]

I just realized I have no idea what happened in the flashbacks. I actually tuned them out. LOL. 

 

Apparently Oliver and Poppy must brave THE LONG DARK OF MORIA. Hope they don't meet the BALROG OF MORGOTH. Seriously, whoever came up with this idea (we knock down a wall in an old Chinese prison and are immediately faced with ALL THE CAVES) was smoking some good shit.

 

Oh, almost forgot - Conklin turned into a zombie (huh?) ghost (what?), spotted Oliver's glowy tattoo (the fuck?) and solemnly intoned: "YOU. SHALL. PASS." Ugh.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Not only BM didn't say she was sorry but Oliver didn't say he was sorry. At least not to Felicity. He apologized to Dig and Alex for whatever reason.

[Delphi]

I wonder if this was how they intended to wrap up Samantha and William or if the vitriol shoved their way about it caused Greg to quickly step in and change trajectories.

[Guest]

Something kind of like this, but with that redneck dude as a zombie:

http://youtu.be/90UPb4i3SxQ

 

LMAO.

[AyChihuahua]

Jenny Raftery of Vulture said Oliver/SA rolled his eyes when he realized Felicity heard his video message. Like he was irritated she was eavesdropping (which she wasn't, it's a huge open space, should she have officially announced her presence in what was at that point still her home, too?). Did anyone else see that? Seems like a super-jerky acting choice and a really bad time for him to be huffy at her.

[dtissagirl]

He did. And I can't remember specifics, but I gotta say I've noticed him rolling his eyes like this before, but it comes off to me as a tick, not as a dick move. Something he does when he's bracing himself -- like a sigh that goes to his eyes.

[AyChihuahua]

He did. And I can't remember specifics, but I gotta say I've noticed him rolling his eyes like this before, but it comes off to me as a tick, not as a dick move. Something he does when he's bracing himself -- like a sigh that goes to his eyes.

Oh, that's a less make-me-want-to-dick-punch-him interpretation. I'll take it.

 

I wonder if his hand tic will return. I personally rather hope so.

[bmoore4026]

I said this on The AV Club comments and I'm sayin' it here: Vixen just ain't Vixen without her Grace Jones flattop.

 

I also said that I hope we never see Oliver's illegitimate son and the lady he knocked up...but I'm probably hoping against hope on that one.

[looptab]

There's a point around the 12:30 mark, when Oliver is giving instructions, that something weird is going on. You can see DR shifting his eyes in the background, BM laughing, and some blurred blonde near DR. The mystery!

Edited February 26, 2016 by looptab

[DeadZeus]

Didn't they say episode 15 will feature something they have never done before and leave audiences surprised? What was it LOL

[tv echo]

Probably it's that they didn't wait until the end of the season to defeat the Big Bad (or maybe it's that the Big Bad has changed from Darhk to Malcolm or Ruve?):

-- Per MG, fans can expect to be surprised by a twist coming up with the season's Big Bad. MG: "The back half of the season, we're pretty much following the same structure that we have in seasons past where obviously the Big Bad gears up. That said, we're going to throw a hard six in episode 15 that I think will surprise people... We're going to do something that's never been done before on Arrow with the Big Bad. 15 is a real game-changer episode for us."  Also, per MG, this big twist "doesn't involve a character death. It's a move that we've never made with one of our Big Bads." (IGN article, page 28 of Spoilers thread, and page 804 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

Edited February 25, 2016 by tv echo

[catrox14]

Jenny Raftery of Vulture said Oliver/SA rolled his eyes when he realized Felicity heard his video message. Like he was irritated she was eavesdropping (which she wasn't, it's a huge open space, should she have officially announced her presence in what was at that point still her home, too?). Did anyone else see that? Seems like a super-jerky acting choice and a really bad time for him to be huffy at her.

 

He did that but I didn't take it as a dick move. I think it's his bracing himself for a difficult conversation.  But not dismissive at all IMO.  When he really rolls his eyes in sarcasm it's pretty evident to me.

[tennisgurl]

I am honestly darkly fascinated by the Spawn of Oliver storyline, in that it is a story that has united pretty much everyone in their hatred of it, has added nothing interesting to the show, and broke up the shows biggest, and most beloved couple, all for contrived reasons. Its such a horrible plot, that its almost a cautinary tale, or a spook story that show runners tell their writers to keep them in line. "Keep writing during the weekends, or I`ll force a baby plot on you! You saw what happened on Arrow!" 

 

Plus, it gives us the awful Samantha, who took a check to stay away from Oliver, but never cashed it (because she is noble! Or, from my perspective, an idiot), but still deprived Oliver of a chance to get to know his kid for years, even after seeing on the news that he had cleaned his life up with his political campaign, acts like an asshole when Oliver finds her, makes bullshit, stupid, and illegal hoops for him to jump through to see his kid every once in awhile, acts constantly superior, acts like William is her own person property, blames people for stuff they had no control over, and is just general a person who has no personality beyond "roadblock to Olicity". 

 

At least shes gone now...hopefully. 

[Hiddenpick]

It's a miracle! I have seen a mir-a-cle I tell ya! Witnessed it, was surprised by it, grimaced at it; was paralyzed by it, felt patronized by it. Of course the miraculous feat was none other than Felicity's supercalifragilisticexpialidicious transition from wheelchair to perfect gait. See, it's not that I have a problem with Felicity walking again, but the need for it to be done in the manner it was, was--preposterous. I found the act of it stupendous and the effect unfulfilling. It smacks of shady faith healers act ..."heal, I say, get out of that chair and walk". Was her recovery done in that fashion for dramatic effect? Except that that sort of reveal leaned heavily melodramatic side. Was it supposed to be a sign of some sort? That emotional devastation triggers revitalization of neurons?

 

The title of the episode tells the story--a child of a parent skilled in combat gets kidnapped. It is, of course, also the premise of the movie with the same name. Is it a coincidence that the mother of the child is estranged as was the case in the movie? Well that's neither here nor there actually, in as much as this "Taken" pulsed with indifference. It was both lazy and tremendously overwrought. However it was anchored by a sincere performance by Oliver, as well as additional gravitas provided by Felicity with kudos going to the drop-in Vixen character as well. Her inclusion could have been a tremendous misstep--as it was it was a gamble, however her appearance was rather entertaining and gave the episode a cool new element. Which then begs the question, as animated..er..I mean acquainted as he was with her, why in the hell didn't he bring her in before? Vixen destroyed Damien's totem just in the nick of time. It was, for Damien, a Darhk day afternoon.

 

Is deviously delicious Damien Darhk's dangerous days done? Gotta tell ya his dethroning moment was a tad anticlimatic. Maybe it's 'cause I wanted it to be Oliver who ultimately brought him down--though I suppose technically he was--hence being William's new hero. BTW, seems that more people know that Oliver is Green Arrow than there are citizens of Star city and yet Damien doesn't??!! So what's gonna happen to Star city's mayoral race now? Is Ruve a shoe in? Or will Oliver take up the gauntlet again?

 

Malcolm (who I believe is the real big bad of the season) no longer has a hand in Thea's life, as she summarily dismissed his efforts at some sort of reconciliation. I suspect that Oliver and company will be going after MM, the hand-less wonder? Hopefully they have beefed up security in the foundry.

 

*Sigh* I, as we all have, have called foul on the flimsy excuse utilized for the Olicity break up. In it's aftermath there are differing opinions regarding Felicity's reaction and action-- the black or white of it, the good or bad of it and/or the wrong or right of it. However (and I suspect I'm in the minority) Felicity is painted as hypocritical, petty and un-flawed here.  In the last episode she told her mother to forgive Q for his 'lie' because, basically a lie to protect someone is somewhat excusable. She has also told Oliver that staying when times are tough is what a 'marriage' is about or something to that effect. The point being that you don't run and hide you stay and heal. She 's gotta practice what she preaches.

Additionally getting herself all wound up because Oliver and his baby mama made a decision about their lifestyle going forward, is their decision. Whether he would have told her of the decision is now unclear since she took that option from him when she accused him of not discussing the situation with her. Sorry Felicity, it's not about you--not this time.

 

Here's the thing though, at some point Felicity will have had time to work out whether she can accept this man she loves. She will, of that I have no doubt. Meanwhile, this Oliver--this guy who keeps secrets; this Oliver--this guy who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders; this Oliver--the guy who's devoted to her; this Oliver--the guy who carried the darkness within him, is the very same guy she fell in love with, flaws and all. This is the guy she admires and is proud of--she has said as much. Wishing, hoping, and dreaming that he will/has changed so dramatically has and will always set him up for failure.

 

And so it goes...

 

 

 

 

[BunsenBurner]

Oliver never introduced Felicity to BM. If I were F my anger would really go up a notch or three.

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver never introduced Felicity to BM. If I were F my anger would really go up a notch or three.

I think he introduced her in the group of "friends." She's a "friend."

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oliver didn't lie to Felicity to keep the child safe, he lied because BM asked him to, plain and simple. They said it multiple times. So there's no comparison with what happened with Lance.

Also it's not that Felicity wanted to decide what to do with Oliver's kid, but she pointed out how in every decision, like this one, he doesn't talk to her. As she said a healthy marriage is made of two people who talk, especially about the hardest stuff, and that's the kind of marriage she wants. I don't see how a woman with a normal amount of self respect would settle for anything less.

This is supposed in theory to help Oliver understand he has people who love him he can and should lean on. If we and the writers keep making excuses for everything he does it's obvious he is never going to learn anything. Not sure that should be the goal in a superhero show.

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver didn't lie to Felicity to keep the child safe, he lied because BM asked him to, plain and simple. They said it multiple times. So there's no comparison with what happened with Lance.

Also it's not that Felicity wanted to decide what to do with Oliver's kid, but she pointed out how in every decision, like this one, he doesn't talk to her. As she said a healthy marriage is made of two people who talk, especially about the hardest stuff, and that's the kind of marriage she wants. I don't see how a woman with a normal amount of self respect would settle for anything less.

This is supposed in theory to help Oliver understand he has people who love him he can and should lean on. If we and the writers keep making excuses for everything he does it's obvious he is never going to learn anything. Not sure that should be the goal in a superhero show.

The idea that in a marriage there are huge things that one spouse has just zero say in utterly and completely floors me. As does the idea that wanting to be chatted up, when two others NOT ABOUT TO MARRY HIM were chatted up is making it all about herself...also utterly floors me. Sure, talk to lady you barely know, talk to best friend, GOD FORBID you speak with the woman you're not just dating, not just living with, but ABOUT TO MARRY.

 

I mean wow. 

[BunsenBurner]

I think he introduced her in the group of "friends." She's a "friend."

Exactly but no name. She was not important enough for him to introduce her as his fiancee?

[Scribbles]

..., this Oliver--this guy who keeps secrets; this Oliver--this guy who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders; this Oliver--the guy who's devoted to her; this Oliver--the guy who carried the darkness within him, is the very same guy she fell in love with, flaws and all. This is the guy she admires and is proud of--she has said as much. Wishing, hoping, and dreaming that he will/has changed so dramatically has and will always set him up for failure.

 

The words that mattered in Oliver's response to Felicity...."I'm trying".  The show has made a point to show him realize that he wants to try, he is trying and to recognize it is not easy and he fails but he keeps trying.  EBR said it in the interview, the choice is between 100% certainty she will marry a man who loves and is devoted to her and whether she can live with his warts or if the warts are just too much/not worth it. 

[dtissagirl]

I really do wonder if now that Thea reneged Malcolm forever, and Oliver got dumped, and dropped out of the election... will the Queen siblings file for unemployment? Will they get jobs? Will Felicity give them a monthly stipend?

[bijoux]

I don't recall if this was raised already, but...

 

When Darhk confronted Oliver & Felicity at the beginning, why didn't Darhk just use his Darth Vader choking powers to kill them both then and there?

 

I don't think it was, but has Darhk actually killed anyone dead by choking them since that hot Ghost? Maybe he was actually never strong enough to do it. Sure, his magic is strong enough to freak you the hell out and you'd probably be screwed if you had a bad heart, but there's just not enough there to get it done.

What makes this interesting to me is this is about what Felicity wants to be as a partner. It's actually more about herself than it is about Oliver. She wants to be able to support her partner emotionally when he needs that. And she was missing so much information here, that she couldn't even see she wasn't being allowed to be the partner she wants to be.

 

This has been consistent with Felicity since she has been faced with any romantic relationship. Even last season, she gravitated towards Ray because she felt he included her. He wants a partner in his work and in his life!

[apinknightmare]

I don't think it was, but has Darhk actually killed anyone dead by choking them since that hot Ghost? Maybe he was actually never strong enough to do it. Sure, his magic is strong enough to freak you the hell out and you'd probably be screwed if you had a bad heart, but there's just not enough there to get it done.

 

He killed that one dude via television in the last ep, so I think if he wanted to kill Oliver and co he could. 

[bijoux]

I guess he just can't be bothered then.

[lemotomato]

DD's Force choke is as selectively used and conditionally effective as Laurel's Canary Cry. ::cough::plot dependent::cough::

[AyChihuahua]

I don't think it was, but has Darhk actually killed anyone dead by choking them since that hot Ghost? Maybe he was actually never strong enough to do it. Sure, his magic is strong enough to freak you the hell out and you'd probably be screwed if you had a bad heart, but there's just not enough there to get it done.

Ah yes, the hot Ghost. Back when I could just aww at all the O/F scenes instead of being nauseated by the lying.

 

I'm actually watching LoT tonight. I'm hoping seeing Oliver miserable can exorcise my current dislike for him.

[JenMD]

No repercussions for Ruve?  Why not expose her as the wife of Damien Darhk, the evil crime lord and reputed leader of the Hive / Ghosts / whatever they are known as?  How come Oliver didn't retract his dropping out?  If he doesn't run for mayor, will the city really be left with Ruve?

I suspect that'll come in the next ep.  They just didn't have enough time once Darhk was defeated to deal with repercussions for the Mrs.  I'm hoping, with him in the pokey (at the very least, they have him on murder, attempted murder and kidnapping from Oliver's holiday party), that the Team will get Ruve's real identity out there and then a "shocked" Oliver will come back to the race.

 

I figured out why the break up scene bugged me more than anything. It's not necessarily because Felicity walked out....although that bugged me. I mean, we didn't even see her have her surgery, but she obviously just had it in the last 48 hours (a little bit on Samantha later with this). It was the editing of her going from standing up to getting to the door. We didn't watch her struggle. We didn't get to watch her struggle to get to the door to walk out. The emotional impact kind of just....failed, all because of the editing of that last half of the scene. Which is weird, because Gregory Smith is a really great director and he does better than this. I know they had to cut some of that scene for time, but I think they edited it too badly for it to mean anything to me. 

Yeah, they biffed the whole thing. I started off this ep, "Cool, Gregory Smith" and ended it "Gregory Smith, you have failed this episode".  Granted he didn't have a great (or good) script to work with, but I wasn't impressed in the least.

[Sunshine]

In the last scene as soon as Felicity takes the ring off her legs begin to work.  Their conversation is very abbreviated.  Oliver doesn't say much at all.  The camera doesn't really focus on Felicity walking out the door as much as Oliver's face.  Is this Oliver realizing that the timeline is resetting or "healing" itself?  When she attempts to stand and walk with Oliver and Paul in the first scene Paul remarks that "Healing takes time".  These are the bookends to the episode.  If she had taken a break from him in 4.08 she might not have ever been paralyzed to begin with.  Maybe I am overthinking. :-)

[Guest]

In the last scene as soon as Felicity takes the ring off her legs begin to work.  Their conversation is very abbreviated.  Oliver doesn't say much at all.  The camera doesn't really focus on Felicity walking out the door as much as Oliver's face.  Is this Oliver realizing that the timeline is resetting or "healing" itself?  When she attempts to stand and walk with Oliver and Paul in the first scene Paul remarks that "Healing takes time".  These are the bookends to the episode.  If she had taken a break from him in 4.08 she might not have ever been paralyzed to begin with.  Maybe I am overthinking. :-)

I don't think you're overthinking at all. If the original timeline had continued there's no way Olicity would have gotten engaged and they wouldn't have been in that limo together. So Felicity probably wouldn't have been shot and paralyzed. Add that to the fact that Oliver bought up the time travel when he was 'sparring' with Laurel in an earlier episode and how he was worried about it causing Felicity's injury, then yeah. Timeline has definitely reset itself with regards to O/Fs relationship.

[tennisgurl]

I also love how Oliver can just be like Constantine is in hell" or "Vixen is a hero who uses a magic totem to fight bad guys" like they are just totally normal, every day things. Which, they are now. Also, I guess Vixen knows Barry? Do they all meet up and hang out? Do they have a Facebook page? Do they have monthly coffee meetings, where they complain about annoying bad guys, how their costumes are a bitch to dry clean, stuff like that? How many costumed heroes are there now? Is this just a thing now? This is actually something that would be kind of interesting to explore. How is the world reacting to all this stuff? Everyone knows that, at the very least, meta humans are a thing. What do people think about that? I know the Marvel TV shows (and, to a lesser extent, the movies) have dealt some with peoples reactions to super powered being/aliens/magic existing, it would be nice to see this universe doing more with it. 

[Starfish35]

I'm totally dragging my feet about watching this. :( I need to just get it out of the way, but I just have a feeling that I'm going to end up pretty pissed off on Felicity's behalf. *sigh*

[wonderwall]

I'm totally dragging my feet about watching this. :( I need to just get it out of the way, but I just have a feeling that I'm going to end up pretty pissed off on Felicity's behalf. *sigh*

You don't have to watch to know what's going on ;) Take it from me lol I"m skipping 415-17

[kismet]

Ugh... I can't stand it when even a few reviewers describe it as a choice between Felicity or his son, and Oliver chose his son.  Oliver could've told Felicity and lied to Samantha about not telling Felicity, without jeopardizing William's safety or his ability to see William.  Oliver's real choice was between being honest with Samantha or being honest with Felicity, and he chose to be honest with the one-night stand who deceived him for 10 years.

There was NO CHOICE to make..... it was for stupid PLOT.... seriously I know they have to review something, but let's call it what it was. The choice was do the writers want to work their creativity muscles and actually write an organic story or are they content with their run-of-mill contrived melodrama. By the end of the episode, BM had basically allowed him to make any choice about his son. Everything pre-episode could have been explained and forgiven if they had actually had that conversation before the whole video shoot. It was that last 20 min of the show that made FS give up the ring. His choice was really talk to VIXEN or talk to FS, if there must be a choice anywhere.

 

Gosh, I miss s2 when it was OK for OQ to say there was NO choice to make when it came to FS. Remember the good ol' times?

[Starfish35]

I did watch it. I wanted to get it out of the way before I watched LoT tonight. :(

*sigh* I think it's a good thing we're taking a break. This was just a mess. And is it me or does SA look completely exhausted?

I don't even know what to say right now. I'll say one good thing and one bad thing and then leave it at that for tonight.

Good: KC was, shockingly, perhaps the best she's ever been in that scene in her dad's office.

Bad: I don't know who directed this one but it was a mess. And the action scenes were terrible.

The rest of it I'll get back to you on. Later. Maybe. :)

[AyChihuahua]

Hey, how old was Akio supposed to be? If around the spawn's age, I'm going to laugh forever. Akio was teaching Oliver Mandarin (a second language to Akio as well) and helping him escape Waller. Spawn was playing with dollies and had no clue that a one-handed man grabbing him from his bedroom and handing him to another guy is...not a good thing.

 

Felicity, when you and Oliver eventually get back together and decide to have kids, may I recommend a sperm donor?