S04.E17: Beach, Please

[justsayin]

I've been reading the forums for a few months, but I finally signed up only to agree with syzygy's comment: I definitely think Ariana is depressed. In fact, after watching the episode, but before reading the forum, I googled "Vanderpump Rules Ariana depressed" to see if there were any hits because it seemed SO obvious to me that that's what's going on. I'm honestly surprised, given how much more comfortable we are as a society acknowledging mental illness -- especially something as ubiquitous as depression -- that this hasn't been more widely proposed as an explanation for her "negative" and "sour" behavior. It's a shame that while we all seem to agree that this is an illness and not a character flaw in theory, we still find the symptoms to be annoying and the fault of the sufferer.

[halkatla]

This boob job is the most horrifying thing I think I´ve ever been exposed to on reality tv! It´s one thing when oldish, attention whoring bimbo´s do it, but to see a lovely young girl get manipulated like that by an old good-for-nothing is just too much :( I hope Jax gets punished (karma) for this, he´s beyond vile.

 

James is ok by me, he´s young and stupid. I´ll be ready to judge him in 10-20 years. I´m optimistic that he´ll turn out ok in the end.

Edited February 25, 2016 by halkatla

[ScoobieDoobs]

Ugh, watching Brittany on WWHL made me cringe.  The way she was laughing at everything Jax, the ape-face/moron/loser, was saying you would think he was Jerry Seinfeld, Larry David & Chris Rock combined.  And yet, absolutely nothing Jax said was funny.  Jax NEVER says ANYTHING even remotely funny.  So what's the deal with Brittany?  Was she merely being a supportive girlfriend?  Was it nerves?  She has a tendency to smile a helluva lot on cam.  To me, she mostly looks like a grinning idiot on the show.  She came off the same way on WWHL.

 

I have no idea what to think of Brittany.  I don't get a vibe of her being calculating -- and yet she could be.  She could be hiding behind a sweetie-pie exterior.  Or is she just a sweet nice Southern gal taken in by a rat bastard, who we all know is a rat bastard, and she refuses to acknowledge is a rat bastard?  It's possible.  Nice women choose horrible/awful men to be with all the time.  Reminds me of the latest story in all the gossip rags right now -- about Lea Michelle being broken-hearted over this total loser who abruptly left her.  He was a jobless penniless ex-hooker that she supported & her friends didn't like or trust.  But she was nuts for him.  Could it be the same with Brittany?  Eh, it's possible, but I have my doubts.

 

Idk, Brittany is actually getting a lot out of this relationship with Jax.  She gets to be on a national TV show & she's getting a free boob job.  I get the feeling she wanted the boob job all along, given that she had been a Hooters girl before.  And maybe she wanted to go for a D size, regardless of Jax's idiotic comments.  Brittany strikes me as very strong-minded.  I'm somewhat leaning to the impression Brittany is playing Jax & just playing along with his idiocy.  I'd like to see what she does when he really starts making her look like a fool.  It's only matter of time before that happens.  As hard as it is to believe, it's worth remembering Stassi stuck with him for 3 years.

[biakbiak]

I thought the point was James speaks or at least pretens to know french. He never seemed remotely lost in that conversation.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I'm surprised no one has even tried to explain to Jax that Tom was speaking metaphorically. Am I missing something? Tom wasn't trying to draw attention to his band. He was saying Jax was harping on minor stuff while Shwartz was dealing with a greater issue. And then he said something to the effect of, "That's like if you were in a terrible accident and I only wanted to talk about my band." It's literally the opposite of what Jax accused him of.

 

I realize that Jax was drinking straight vodka and was arguably coked up and is stupid. Still, though. You'd think someone would have pulled him aside and maybe using pictures tried to explain what had actually been said.

Edited February 25, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[teapot]

I'm surprised no one has even tried to explain to Jax that Tom was speaking metaphorically. Am I missing something? Tom wasn't trying to draw attention to his band. He was saying Jax was harping on minor stuff while Shwartz was suffering from something a lot bigger. And then he said something to the effect of, "That's like if you were in a terrible accident and I only wanted to talk about my band." It's literally the opposite of what Jax accused him of.

 

I realize that Jax was drinking straight vodka and was arguably coked up and is stupid. Still, though. You'd think someone would have pulled him aside and maybe using pictures tried to explain what had actually been said.

I think Jax had talked about being already sick of Sandoval talking about his band, and that was "the straw that broke the camel's back" because he was too drunk to understand context.

 

(that does not make him less of an idiot.)

[ghoulina]

I'm surprised no one has even tried to explain to Jax that Tom was speaking metaphorically. Am I missing something? Tom wasn't trying to draw attention to his band. He was saying Jax was harping on minor stuff while Shwartz was suffering from something a lot bigger. And then he said something to the effect of, "That's like if you were in a terrible accident and I only wanted to talk about my band." It's literally the opposite of what Jax accused him of.

 

I was so frustrated by that entire conversation. Jax is a moron. He thinks that Sandoval only cares about his band, but the way that Tom used his band as an example, shows just how trivial he knows it is. Good Lord. 

[HunterHunted]

I've been reading the forums for a few months, but I finally signed up only to agree with syzygy's comment: I definitely think Ariana is depressed. In fact, after watching the episode, but before reading the forum, I googled "Vanderpump Rules Ariana depressed" to see if there were any hits because it seemed SO obvious to me that that's what's going on. I'm honestly surprised, given how much more comfortable we are as a society acknowledging mental illness -- especially something as ubiquitous as depression -- that this hasn't been more widely proposed as an explanation for her "negative" and "sour" behavior. It's a shame that while we all seem to agree that this is an illness and not a character flaw in theory, we still find the symptoms to be annoying and the fault of the sufferer.

Until someone posted it in this thread, I hadn't considered that Ariana might be depressed. It makes sense. The next thing I'm going to need is for Ariana and Tom to acknowledge it. The problem is that until Tom stops unconditionally supporting her, Ariana won't admit that something is wrong. I think most of us called Ariana sour and negative because we had no indication that it might mental illness and Tom and Ariana kept insisting that everything in their life was perfect and amazing.

[bichonblitz]

I think Jax had talked about being already sick of Sandoval talking about his band, and that was "the straw that broke the camel's back" because he was too drunk to understand context.

 

(that does not make him less of an idiot.)

Yea, Jax did say on WWHL that Sandoval was going on and on with a lot  of "band talk" off camera that we didn't see. Still, who knows what the truth is with Jax. 

[teapot]

Yea, Jax did say on WWHL that Sandoval was going on and on with a lot  of "band talk" off camera that we didn't see. Still, who knows what the truth is with Jax. 

I'd like to go on record that I'd rather listen to Sandoval talk ad nauseum about "Charles McMansion" than anything Jax has to say, any day of the week!!!

[ghoulina]

I'd like to go on record that I'd rather listen to Sandoval talk ad nauseum about "Charles McMansion" than anything Jax has to say, any day of the week!!!

 

I'll second that. Also, as vain and narcissistic as Jax is, I could see Tom talking about it twice in the span of a month and Jax thinking that's "going on and on" about it. You could tell he really wanted people talking about Brittany's boob job, and the point was that Schwartz's issues were more important than boobs or bands. Jax just couldn't see that.

[syzygy]

I've been reading the forums for a few months, but I finally signed up only to agree with syzygy's comment: I definitely think Ariana is depressed. In fact, after watching the episode, but before reading the forum, I googled "Vanderpump Rules Ariana depressed" to see if there were any hits because it seemed SO obvious to me that that's what's going on. I'm honestly surprised, given how much more comfortable we are as a society acknowledging mental illness -- especially something as ubiquitous as depression -- that this hasn't been more widely proposed as an explanation for her "negative" and "sour" behavior. It's a shame that while we all seem to agree that this is an illness and not a character flaw in theory, we still find the symptoms to be annoying and the fault of the sufferer.

 

(emphasis mine)  See, I was actually thinking the exact opposite - there is still so much stigma (and lack of knowledge in general) against mental illness and I could go on and on about that - I just wish it was different. We all know that if you have a broken leg you should go to the hospital and get that taken care of, but if you're feeling sad and down or even suicidal all the time, or feel anxious when you go out, or any number of things, "get to therapy!" isn't really the first thing people think of. And I think there's still the perception that going to therapy is only for crazy people or a sign of weakness, when it really isn't (just how in my broken leg example, it wouldn't be weak or crazy to go see a doctor!). This is why I'm happy to see when people (especially on TV) mention things like depression or therapy, because it helps normalize it. I think Kristen has mentioned a few times that she went to therapy and for what it's worth she's definitely seemed to have calmed down a bit, as much as I still don't like her, hah. :p Hell, Jax definitely needs some long-term therapy to help curb his numerous self-destructive behaviors, and Shay needs major help for his addiction/depression issues as well. (Case in point of people not understanding mental problems - Scheana's "well he just needs to cut it down to less beers and he'll be fine, right?")

Until someone posted it in this thread, I hadn't considered that Ariana might be depressed. It makes sense. The next thing I'm going to need is for Ariana and Tom to acknowledge it. The problem is that until Tom stops unconditionally supporting her, Ariana won't admit that something is wrong. I think most of us called Ariana sour and negative because we had no indication that it might mental illness and Tom and Ariana kept insisting that everything in their life was perfect and amazing.

It's super common to not acknowledge it, though - even to your closest family and friends. Not to go all morbid (and not that I think this is the case with Ariana), but this is why you so often get those articles about suicide where all the family and friends go "I had no idea anything was wrong, they seemed fine!" I do hope that if it is the case of Ariana being in a bad place, that she will hopefully later acknowledge her behavior, and that the people who were in her life who may have drifted away will be able to welcome her back. It's true that she will have to admit to herself first that there is a problem and seek help for it.

 

I realize that I could just be madly projecting about it - but the downward spiral into constant negativity and bitterness and distancing herself from people just seems to me like it's more than just an attitude problem. It doesn't entirely excuse the way she's been acting but it does make me have a bit of sympathy for her in case that's where it's coming from.

[JenE4]

Hey, who were they screaming "OMG" about seeing at the end of the preview for next ep? is Laura Leigh back? Or Miami Girl?

My guess is that Katie showed up to talk to Stassi, and Stassi and Kristin were just shocked and thrilled that she actually came.

I think Sandoval is getting a bad rap by association with Ariana. First, he gets blamed for changing her, and then he gets accused of not being a good friend when all evidence is that he's a great friend to ALL of these people--even though most of them don't deserve it. I can see that when she's in a bitchy mood, which, let's face it, is 95% of the time, he does tend to defend her. But when she's not around, he's still his same caring, gregarious self. And I'm going to say that he is the #1 guy in the group just because he can always be counted on to rally behind his friends. Jax wanting to be #1 is just as self-serving as Donald Trump telling everyone he's number one. They have the same attitude that they don't care what people are saying about them just as long as they're relevant. Ban all Muslims and Mexicans or steal everything that's not locked down and force your girlfriend to get the implants you want because all that matters are your own needs--everyone else be damned. So, what I'm saying is Sandoval gets my vote for #1 guy!

[straightshooter]

My guess is that Katie showed up to talk to Stassi, and Stassi and Kristin were just shocked and thrilled that she actually came.

 

That was my assumption as well, and I hope to high hell that Katie doesn't cave and let the evil one back into her life.  

 

[straightshooter]

I am not sure whether or not I believe Ariana is depressed - it wouldn't surprise me, but I get the feeling that she is miserable because she can't stand any of these people and she's forced to be around them for a decent amount of time since she's dating Tom.  I think he genuinely loves this group, while she pretty much loathes em all.  I don't blame her for feeling that way about Kristen, about Jax, and about Scheana.  I would have a hard time being around all of these people who are so two-faced for the sake of the show that they'll play along and pretend that Kristen isn't psychotic and just a complete ass in general so that she can still be on and bring the potential for drama.  I'd be annoyed by the fakeness of it all.  It would be exhausting to have to play the game when the only reason she's still in it is because of who she's dating, who just so happens to be one of the very few decent ones within the gang.  I think my happy-go-lucky would be wheezin and sputterin'.  

 

I don't think it justifies how she acts, however.   I hung in there with her for a while, too -  because I disliked her the least, besides Katie and the Toms.  I still think she's one of the more sane ones, and she isn't an all out asshole, screwing people over for the sake of......whatever might be the motivation du jour.   At this point, I just think she has a choice to make - suck it up, sister, or walk away from the show.   That selfish "misery loves company" attitude got old long ago.   Debbie Downer types don't generally fare well on reality shows.  She's stuck around for longer than I thought she would - or longer than I thought they'd let her, anyway.  I have a feeling she's not long for the Vanderpump world anymore, honestly.  

 

If she is, in fact, depressed, I hope she does get help.  Depression is not about weakness or anything else about which to be embarassed or feel ashamed.  It's awful, and it affects a hell of a lot of people.  At least she's got a boyfriend who is empathetic and has shown pretty consistently that he's willing to help anyone who needs it. Hopefully, she's open with him.  I'm thinking that 90% of the time, he sees a very different Ariana than the one we do.   Maybe I'm giving her/them too much credit, though - who knows?  Maybe I just hate to hear that anyone is depressed.  Yep, that's it.  :)

[ghoulina]

I could very well be wrong (it's happened a time or two), but I just don't think Ariana is depressed. I think she is just a stuck up bitch who thinks she is better than everyone else and acts all pissy when she has to be around these unattractive, unfunny losers. It's gotten progressively worse, because it's been going on for a few years now and she's over it. 

[syzygy]

See, I've seen the whole "ugh I don't want to be around any of these people on the show anymore" on other shows and it does manifest as disgust/holier-than-thou behavior (nene from RHoA, yikes, I could not wait until they stopped bringing her back because at the end she was dragging the whole thing down with her attitude) but Ariana just seems extra sad/sour all the time that, I dunno. She just gives off a certain vibe to me.

 

Regardless of whether it's stemming from mental problems or not I still agree, she needs to either suck it up or get off the show. I completely understand why she doesn't want to make nice with people like Kristen (whose behavior in the past has been appalling) but these are also technically her coworkers, so for the sake of not being the odd one out all the time she could have just sucked it up by now and made fake-nice. No one is asking her to be true best friends with these people. Sadly she's just not fun to watch anymore and I agree with @straightshooter that these kinds of people tend to end up leaving/getting the boot because no one wants to watch someone who doesn't really fit in with anyone else on the show.

[FozzyBear]

The thing that's going to kill Airianna with fans (such as the are. I've never been one, but...) is that she is the queen of wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She always sort of wants things both ways. Right now she wants to be above all of the petty drama in the group, but she also wants to harp any drama directed at her to death. Who cares what Scheena said Jax said about Tom's band? You can't pretend to be above it all while also playing high school games of gossip telephone. Nobody like the person who thinks everyone should just get over everything...except them.

[nexxie]

What was it that Jax said in that confessional moment last episode - something about how he feels when people aren't talking about him?

At the time I thought it offered an interesting peek into the mind of a possible narcissist, but I can't find the quote - anyone remember?

Edited February 27, 2016 by nexxie

[HumblePi]

What was it that Jax said in that confessional moment last episode - something about how he feels when people aren't talking about him?

At the time I thought it offered an interesting peek into the mind of a possible narcissist, but I can't find the quote - anyone remember?

I just watched this episode on demand and it wasn't until the last few minutes when Jax was talking to Peter that I got interested. I don't want to play armchair psychiatrist but most of us have realized that there's something wrong with Jax, and it's not as simple as being narcissistic. I honestly believe that Jax's mental problems go much deeper and that it's even more difficult to diagnose than someone that's bi-polar.

 

Here's some of what he said to Peter in his exact words;

 

"I don't want to lose my friends because that's all I have"

"I don't know the direction I'm supposed to go. Am I happy who I am? Am I happy where I am?"

"Brittany moves in and in five days I feel like I need an escape. I feel out of control."

"I think there's something wrong upstairs. At 36 can I change?  I would love to change I would love to be not so involved. But I feel like that's just me."

"Even if it doesn't concern me, I feel like I have to be the center of attention."

"I feel like if I'm not accepted, I'm not talked about"

"for me to lose my friends would be huge, I don't have anything else".

 

For the first time in this series, I felt bad for Jax. Not only that, but I commend Jax for realizing that he has a big problem. Understanding that there's something wrong is the first step Jax needed to take in order to be able to get help. But now, he actually has to seek professional help. Borderline Personality Disorder is a very difficult personality disorder for most professionals to diagnose and treat effectively.

Here are some of the classic signs and symptoms of a person with BPD;

 

Is it borderline personality disorder?

 *   I often feel “empty.”

 *   My emotions shift very quickly, and I often experience extreme sadness, anger, and anxiety.

 *   I’m constantly afraid that the people I care about will abandon me or leave me.

 *   I would describe most of my romantic relationships as intense, but unstable.

 *   The way I feel about the people in my life can dramatically change from one moment to the next—and I don’t always understand why.

 *   I often do things I know are dangerous or bad for me, such as driving recklessly, having unsafe sex, binge drinking, doing drugs, or going on spending sprees.

 *   I’ve attempted to hurt myself, engaged in self-harm behaviors such as cutting, or threatened suicide.

 *   When I’m feeling insecure in a relationship, I tend to lash out or make frantic gestures to keep the other person close.

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/personality-disorders/borderline-personality-disorder.htm

 

I saw the shock on Brittany's face when Jax told her that he's unhappy and added their new relationship to his list of things that he's unhappy about. Brittany is in that relationship for the free boobs or whatever Jax can provide her in order to give her exposure so she'll turn a deaf ear to that. I see Brittany as one of those women that pack a bag and leave Bumblefuck, Kentucky to hook up with a sugar daddy and become a rich model or get a part in a B movie. Brittany appears to be a sweet, unassuming young women but she's more clever than anyone gives her credit for. I think she'll do or say whatever she needs to in order to become 'famous'. Even being with a crazy man is okay as long as he gives her what she came out to California for. E! News reported 3 days ago that Jax and Brittany may even get married and if that happens then they're both even more stupid than they appear to be. It would be a big mess for both of them.

Edited February 29, 2016 by HumblePi

[nexxie]

Jax could also have narcissistic personality disorder, which isn't the same as narcissism in the pop culture sense. He does seem to be in a bad place - hope he finds help.

[heatherchandler]

 

For the first time in this series, I felt bad for Jax. Not only that, but I commend Jax for realizing that he has a big problem. Understanding that there's something wrong is the first step Jax needed to take in order to be able to get help. But now, he actually has to seek professional help. Borderline Personality Disorder is a very difficult personality disorder for most professionals to diagnose and treat effectively.

 

 

Yes, I 100% believe this is exactly what is going on.  I am not a doctor, of course, but I feel like he fits borderline personality disorder to a T.

[Long Spot]

I was uncomfortable watching this episode and I couldn't pin point the cause.  Further thought brought back the same feeling I had watching Kim Richards start to "in real life" really spin the hell out of control.  I feel a bit "Ok, this isn't funny anymore, get that guy off the show and get him some serious help".  Jax is an asshole, but he's a sick asshole.  That's pretty clear at this point.  I don't feel badly for him, but I pity him.  

 

I don't like watching that sort of free fall.  I'm good with things like watching cranky Stassi apologize and humiliate herself as scripted/storylined (let's be honest here).  But the Jax stuff is...close to a line in the sand I have about what should be entertainment and what should expect a certain level of privacy, reality show cast member or not.

 

Bah.  

 

Never really thought about what a good friend Sandoval is before now.  He sure is.  I don't really care for him personally (I think he's just a bit of a try hard posing douche) but he really doesn't hold a grudge and knows how to keep things in the vault as a friend. 

[Ubiquitous]

I keep forgetting to ask, but were the guys who gave Brittany fame whores (AKA, reality show stars)? Something about them seemed familiar...

[Ubiquitous]

Arianna: "How many SUR staff does it take to remove a sofa from an apartment?"

 

Arianna knows comedy, dontcha know...

[Sun-Bun]

Arianna: "How many SUR staff does it take to remove a sofa from an apartment?"

Arianna knows comedy, dontcha know...

She takes it VERY SERIOUSLY, after all. She's been practicing it for 10 YEARS now, people! It's not her fault we just aren't smart enough to comprehend her comedic genius.

[hatchetgirl]

I'm just beyond peeved at the unethical treatment she received by the doctors. She went in wanting C cups but under anesthetic, they said something like "these are bigger than we would normally put in but..." god that was such a breach of trust, if she really meant it and they listened to Jax because he paid for them.

I feel for Ariana. Those people really have never seemed like her friends except Scheana. She doesn't seem to drink like they do,she doesn't seem to gossip like they do.

Shay's parents need to step in and get him help because his wife sure doesn't get it.

[Silly Angel]

When James was in the studio with his shitty, shitty "jam," I soooo wanted to hear him open his mouth and sing, "You're so precious to me/am I precious to you."

[Luckylondon]

I just watched this episode on demand and it wasn't until the last few minutes when Jax was talking to Peter that I got interested. I don't want to play armchair psychiatrist but most of us have realized that there's something wrong with Jax, and it's not as simple as being narcissistic. I honestly believe that Jax's mental problems go much deeper and that it's even more difficult to diagnose than someone that's bi-polar.

Here's some of what he said to Peter in his exact words;

"I don't want to lose my friends because that's all I have"

"I don't know the direction I'm supposed to go. Am I happy who I am? Am I happy where I am?"

"Brittany moves in and in five days I feel like I need an escape. I feel out of control."

"I think there's something wrong upstairs. At 36 can I change? I would love to change I would love to be not so involved. But I feel like that's just me."

"Even if it doesn't concern me, I feel like I have to be the center of attention."

"I feel like if I'm not accepted, I'm not talked about"

"for me to lose my friends would be huge, I don't have anything else".

For the first time in this series, I felt bad for Jax. Not only that, but I commend Jax for realizing that he has a big problem. Understanding that there's something wrong is the first step Jax needed to take in order to be able to get help. But now, he actually has to seek professional help. Borderline Personality Disorder is a very difficult personality disorder for most professionals to diagnose and treat effectively.

Here are some of the classic signs and symptoms of a person with BPD;

Is it borderline personality disorder?

* I often feel “empty.”

* My emotions shift very quickly, and I often experience extreme sadness, anger, and anxiety.

* I’m constantly afraid that the people I care about will abandon me or leave me.

* I would describe most of my romantic relationships as intense, but unstable.

* The way I feel about the people in my life can dramatically change from one moment to the next—and I don’t always understand why.

* I often do things I know are dangerous or bad for me, such as driving recklessly, having unsafe sex, binge drinking, doing drugs, or going on spending sprees.

* I’ve attempted to hurt myself, engaged in self-harm behaviors such as cutting, or threatened suicide.

* When I’m feeling insecure in a relationship, I tend to lash out or make frantic gestures to keep the other person close.

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/personality-disorders/borderline-personality-disorder.htm

I saw the shock on Brittany's face when Jax told her that he's unhappy and added their new relationship to his list of things that he's unhappy about. Brittany is in that relationship for the free boobs or whatever Jax can provide her in order to give her exposure so she'll turn a deaf ear to that. I see Brittany as one of those women that pack a bag and leave Bumblefuck, Kentucky to hook up with a sugar daddy and become a rich model or get a part in a B movie. Brittany appears to be a sweet, unassuming young women but she's more clever than anyone gives her credit for. I think she'll do or say whatever she needs to in order to become 'famous'. Even being with a crazy man is okay as long as he gives her what she came out to California for. E! News reported 3 days ago that Jax and Brittany may even get married and if that happens then they're both even more stupid than they appear to be. It would be a big mess for both of them.

Great post, HumblePi I do have a doctorate in clinical psychology, yet obviously Jax is not my patient. That said, viewing him for 4 seasons, it has become increasingly clear he likely has Borderline Personality Disorder. I posted about it in last week's thread. It's symptoms do cross over with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and other former Cluster B disorders. However, to me, Borderline fits most specifically, especially regarding his unstable sense of self and instability with rational thought processing when experiencing emotion, splitting behavior, unstable interpersonal and romantic relationships and the complete reckless self harming behavior when he feels out of control. Because he is male, this can be overlooked and labeled as Antisocial Personality because his self harm and self destruction often ends up in legal trouble or criminal charges, yet it stems from a need to push boundaries to see if people will still love him. He is a very classic, "I hate you! Don't leave me!"

I have worked inpatient in a psychiatric hospital for years and there is something that just buzzes for Borderlines and Jax has been ringing for years. Also the reaction he invokes in people is diagnostic to me. A borderline personality patient can easily tear a treatment team apart until everyone is mad at each other. Just by discussing them! You have to "treat the team" as well as the patient, as staff becomes disorganized and confused and angry by behaviors of the patient that seem intentional and preventable. The feeling that many of you speak of that you feel when you observe Jax is how Jax likely feels a lot of the time and he does crazy behaviors to destabilize others (unintentionally sometimes) or stabilize himself (black out drinking and drug abuse, trying to be a good friend after being such a dick and it makes no sense, his desperate need for approval while simultaneously thumbing his nose and screwing everyone over). This all seems like this is Asshole Personality Disorder, but Borderline Personality Disorder is a very real thing. It is a problem in how your personality is structured and has developed. It is not a biochemical problem like depression or bipolar disorder that can be treated with medication. It takes an incredible amount of work with someone skilled in treating Borderline Personality Disorder and this treatment is hard to find outpatient. There are some intensive outpatient programs. Most find their way into therapy for some presenting problem (relationships, legal issues, substance abuse) and hopeful can get some therapy to repair that insecure unstable attachment formation to stop the patterns of behavior.

[Luckylondon]

Well I certainly can't vouch for all of them, but but Mike definitely graduated from high school in 2007.

http://www.thelance.org/1861/sports/inaugural-flag-football-game-raises-money/

And played football as a freshman in 2007 (page 25). Funny enough--his "goals" were the same ones he stated to Scheana last night--to be a teacher and a counselor. Um, better get a move on that, SS!

http://www.citruscollege.edu/Athletics/Football/Documents/2007_Football_Media_Guide.pdf

Scheana and Mike Shay did go to high school together and she was/is 2 years older than him and two grades ahead of him. I remember at some point him reporting that she was this hot senior and he had a crush on her as a sophomore. Don't know if they dated in high school. I got the impression that they were friends and in a similar crowd and he was dazzled by her. She moved to LA to be an actress/singer/Villa Blanca waitress/SURver. The Stassi crowd didn't like her for being a "home wrecker" where none of the SUR men were safe and they were brutal to her at times. For the crossover casting and generating viewer interest, Brandi on RHoBH also hated her for dating her husband for a significant amount of time and then crying on Access Hollywood that he left her for Leann Rimes. (On this one I see Brandi's point.... He left YOU?)

I don't know when her romance with Mike Shay began or rekindled but I don't believe they have been together since high school. Shay is also a DJ and was good friends with Tom Sandoval and James. They all worked on music together. Earlier episodes have Shay DJ'ing and co-DJ'ing (sorry, I don't know the verbs) with James. So I think it worked because they were all friends and he had a long history of admiring her. They may have re-kindled in the hometown and he followed to LA. Don't know. But I do know that Shay established relationships and had solid friendships with the Toms before Season 2. (WHY do I know these things and retain them?!!) Tom Sandoval was in his wedding party.

Scheana also became significantly less threatening to the women once she was firmly established as serious with Shay and he was friends with their boyfriends too. Once Stassi fought with Kristin and Katie and Scheana was nice to her and Stassi was grateful to have a friend... Scheana was in and held on and was not going to be bullied off the show. I think having Shay helped her with that as he was always there for her even when the chuckleheads were being fickle bitches and screaming at her. Now her rock has needs and feelings and is not so coveniently affable and adoring of her love of the spotlight and being center of attention and this creates problems and conflicting values snd goals.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Luckylondon

[itainttippithebird]

This is far too late for anyone to care, but you guyyyyssss I kinda felt bad for Lala in that Fountainhead moment. You just KNOW the producers put her on the spot, like, "Tell us what the Fountainhead is about" with zero warning. That's not fair!