S15.E12: Showcase #2: Judges Vote

[queenanne]

Oh my god, I knew that was what I was seeing! I was watching him and I was like "He reminds me of someone.. he looks like.." and you just nailed it. 

 

I did enjoy seeing Scotty again, but he was not all that into being there. I like his music and I hope he finds another label if he hasn't already. But I also thought he was going to concentrate on college? When he started singing, Mom was like "George Strait!". LOL. 

 

Well, I kinda feel like maybe that's a part of why his label dumped him.  You need new material with which to tour, with which to rake in money.  Sitting in a lecture hall won't git 'er done.

[ari333]

I hope Jeneve's handlers see this thread and dress her with some dignity instead of the clown thing. Bless her heart.

[TVFan17]

Sorry, likely unpopular opinion ahead: I agree that Stephany is beautiful, has a beautiful voice and is poised... but she also bored me to no end whenever she sang. Every time I saw her on stage I thought "beauty pageant contestant," and her singing style reminded me of the same. That just isn't my taste - but then again, I'll admit that I prefer men's voices to women's, especially women's country voices (the twangy bugs me) - not very women power of me, I know, but, I'm coming clean.

 

I do sometimes find women singers whose voices I really like - currently it's Pink and Elle King - but they tend to be unique and have something I find interesting. Stephany's voice is beautiful, but for me, not exciting - sort of like Celine Dione much of the time (every once in a while I hear a song of hers I really like, but usually it's beautiful but somehow also forgettable.) Yeah, I know... I'm likely not making sense to anyone else.

 

My favorite from this group was Mackenzie. I'm glad we still have someone who writes their own songs (and passably good ones) since apparently one of my favorites from the Audition rounds - Brandyn (the guy who played his original song and got ninja hugged by Harry) apparently got cut somewhere in the Hollywood rounds and I missed it somehow (I unfortunately missed some of the early Hollywood rounds). Hopefully someone out there heard his song and he gets it picked up maybe for someone else to sing, because I really liked it.

 

I would rather have seen him than Jeneve who I think is going to try my patience... and who strangely reminds me of a kid who should be in a Sid and Marty Croft show (okay I just dated myself there), but not in a good way.

 

I totally agree about Stephany, and I am so glad I'm not the only one who has that opinion.  Yesterday I mentioned that I knew it would be an unpopular opinion (in my post here in this thread)!  Lol.  She is very attractive and stylish; she has a nice voice and she can certainly sing better than I can, but her singing left me underwhelmed almost every time.  There was something missing that I couldn't quite specify.  A voice doesn't have to be technically perfect for me to like it, just as a song doesn't have to be filled with runs for me to like it (in fact, the endless runs that some singers go for can be very grating).  It just has to make me feel something, in some way.  It has to move me in some way.   I guess I just didn't detect any soul or passion in her singing.

 

I love Pink's voice as well -- I think she is a very underrated singer.  I have not necessarily liked all of her songs over the years, but when she sings a song that I like I always find myself very impressed.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Sherry67

[Kromm]

I feel so uncomfortable when I see Sonika performs because she looks so uncomfortable. She appears to be on the verge of a mental breakdown yet at the same time fake, whenever she's performing. Not what I like to see on my TV.

I can't really see the uncomfortable part, but the fake is pretty clear. Which is a shame because her voice IS almost as good as the way it's being hyped. But as has been noted SO many times, even the greatest voice without real emotion/experiences behind it does not make for a good performance. I actually DO think a few years of maybe performing on the road and living a life may fix that problem for her. In a nutshell, she has to lose this show but still pursue music to be any good.

I hope Jeneve's handlers see this thread and dress her with some dignity instead of the clown thing. Bless her heart.

Well, A Rodeo Clown is still a clown, right?

 

She and Avalon can have a Tragic Outfit-Off. 

 

Even worse, they're both doing it intentionally (and thus pretentiously). 

And of course to showcase the songs of the previous winners!  

There's very little anyone could do to "showcase" Nick Who? well enough to make him memorable.

[Ohwell]

I guess it's a UO but I like Nick Fradiani.  He's not the greatest singer but I do like his stage presence.

[Sparkling Beth]

I guess it's a UO but I like Nick Fradiani.  He's not the greatest singer but I do like his stage presence.

I'll join you in that little cult.  He just seems like a nice guy to me and I like his singing too.

[Guest]

I don't think it's unpopular to like Nick at all, or any of the WGWGs.  They won because more people liked them than the others.  I think it's just that the sum of the other contestants' fans outnumber the winner's fans.  

 

I called Stephany "too pageant" upthread, too.   If I had to pick some favorite female vocalists, Pink would be in my top 5, too.  

[designing1]

I totally agree about Stephany, and I am so glad I'm not the only one who has that opinion.  Yesterday I mentioned that I knew it would be an unpopular opinion (in my post here in this thread)!  Lol.  She is very attractive and stylish; she has a nice voice and she can certainly sing better than I can, but her singing left me underwhelmed almost every time.  There was something missing that I couldn't quite specify.  A voice doesn't have to be technically perfect for me to like it, just as a song doesn't have to be filled with runs for me to like it (in fact, the endless runs that some singers go for can be very grating).  It just has to make me feel something, in some way.  It has to move me in some way.   I guess I just didn't detect any soul or passion in her singing.

 

I love Pink's voice as well -- I think she is a very underrated singer.  I have not necessarily liked all of her songs over the years, but when she sings a song that I like I always find myself very impressed.

 

I'm one who think Stephany should have moved forward, but I still agree with you where she's concerned AND for Sonika. Two very pretty young women with solid voices and no idea how to connect with their music and their audience. They both need coaching on how to interpret music and more time in front of an audience, which they could have gotten on this show. Actually, the vast majority of contestants at any given time need the same thing; the trick is finding the ones who don't.

 

Some of my favorite artist have questionable voices. I love Leon Russell in spite of his sounding like a bullfrog with strep. He "gets" the music (possibly because he also writes it) and communicates that to the audience. Pink has one of the great voices out there and also "gets" what she's singing. Being a great singer takes a lot more than being pitch perfect.

[awaken]

I totally agree about Stephany, and I am so glad I'm not the only one who has that opinion.  Yesterday I mentioned that I knew it would be an unpopular opinion (in my post here in this thread)!  Lol.  She is very attractive and stylish; she has a nice voice and she can certainly sing better than I can, but her singing left me underwhelmed almost every time.  There was something missing that I couldn't quite specify.  

 

I agree- I never connected with her even though outwardly one can't find fault.  In fact, I think that's the issue for me- she's TOO perfect.  Perfectly straight, long hair, perfect face, always perfectly composed, perfect singing.  There's just nothing different or interesting about her to draw me in.  

 

And for some reason I love Avalon!  There's something so interesting in her voice and attitude.  The tomboy, "don't care what I wear" emphasis is annoying, but I am betting it's producer driven to give her some kind of schtick, as is the Brenda K Starr thing for Gianna.  I could see Avalon as a current artist on the radio, with some more polish and practice- which I can't say for someone like Jeneve, or LaPortia.

Also, on the topic of hair- color me STUNNED that they didn't do some kind of 1/2 hr special about Jordan getting his hair cut.  I cannot believe he just showed up on stage with it cut and they didn't go into all kinds of detail with a package following every step of the decision making, haircut, and recovery process, complete with facetiming his wife and baby with before and after announcements.  I think it was due to the compressed 1-hr show on Tues., but I can't believe they didn't make a huge deal of it at some point.  Now I'm wondering if Jordan is mad that he cut off his hair to be a TV star and then got cut right after- he could have kept his manbun after all. 

 

And harkening back to LaPortia, she of old-broccoli hair, my 5 yr old saw her and said "Someone on this show has hair like a butt."

 

And, they graciously gave us a clear view of Jenna Renae's and Jordan's (AKA eyes-too-close-worship-guy) tonsils- thanks, show!  

[PamelaMaeSnap]

And yes, this is one area where I think there's a huge difference between Stephany and Sonika, and why I think the judges threw their support behind Sonika vs. Stephany. I get the feeling (and it's only my hunch) that Stephany thinks she's already all that ... perfectly coiffed, gorgeous, technically excellent. I don't think she even realizes there's "no there there" and if someone told her she needed to connect better she might politely say "okay" but she'd have a thought bubble over her head that said "WTF do you mean?"

 

Whereas I get the feeling that Sonika's lack of connection has a lot to do with her nerves and lack of self-confidence and experience. 

 

So, for me (for you), I don't think Stephany had much growth arc because in her mind she's already there and just needs the validation and record deal and fame.

 

Sonika has a growth arc to gain confidence (and lose the pageant dresses). 

Edited February 13, 2016 by PamelaMaeSnap

[Kromm]

And for some reason I love Avalon!  There's something so interesting in her voice and attitude.  The tomboy, "don't care what I wear" emphasis is annoying, but I am betting it's producer driven to give her some kind of schtick, as is the Brenda K Starr thing for Gianna.  I could see Avalon as a current artist on the radio, with some more polish and practice- which I can't say for someone like Jeneve, or LaPortia.

I disagree. I think the producers are just going along with Avalon's own pretension about her looks/dress. 

 

That said, you can see the judges, who at other times might rail on a contestant for not attending to their image, pulling back and grabbing "you're so real!" cliches out of their asses, because the producers (and by extension the judges) DID see it was unexplored territory for the show. 

 

To be clear, I don't think Avalon is pretentious in the traditional sense. But she's got a total blindspot that the WAY she cares about not looking glammed is in it's own ways a sign of vanity as the opposite is.  She cares how she looks (way too much), even if the specific WAY she's settled on is non-traditional. That's vanity (and as I said, pretension, because she's pretending--maybe even to herself--that she's not vain). 

[bluepiano]

I see no problem with what Avalon is wearing. James VIII was no more dressed up than she was and nobody is complaining about him. Lots of guys on this show have worn super-casual outfits over the years. Avril Lavigne had her initial success dressed like that. Justin Bieber wears baggy jeans, sweatshirts and a ball-cap to most of his award show performances. As do many of the rappers and all the current rockers. Coldplay just played the Superbowl half-time in baggy sweatshirts and jeans.

 

You've touched on something that has always been true about this show, which is the huge double standard between how men and women are treated. The girls have always been critiqued on their outfits, hair, make-up etc., especially when it gets to the top 10. The guys frequently look like they've just rolled out of bed, or on their way to/from the gym. Well, maybe that's reflective of the entertainment business and the culture in general, but it's often annoying. I particularly remember that when Haley Reinhardt was on that the first few comments were always about her "look" and not her performance. Especially from JLo.

 

So I'm cool with a female contestant who says "Judge me on my singing, not my look," but with Avalon I do feel that that the whole dressed-down, "I don't care" thing is a bit calculated. An anti-image can be a image too, if that make sense.  

 

At least she's not (yet) wearing a backwards baseball cap. Cause then she might look like "Poochie" from that SImpson's episode.

Edited February 13, 2016 by bluepiano

[AshleyLyn]

My problem with Sonika, Stephany and a couple other ladies on here, (and with one guy- Mackenzie I think it is....?) is the Jessica Sanchez issue for me (and for the guy- Joshua Ledet.)

 

Jessica and Joshua were in Season 11 with Phillip Phillips. Jessica was runner up. Jessica and Joshua apparently sang with so much passion and spark and personality according to the judges. For me? They left me dead cold. I didn't see passion. I didn't see any spark. I saw nothing but pageant like singing, over rehearsed, polished to be perfect singing designed to be heart tugging- yet it did nothing for me. They didn't get me to sit up and take notice like Phillip did. Phillip got into my head and under my skin and I enjoyed his singing. 

So essentially the judges had two versions of Jessica this year. Sonika and Stephany. They both have talent, I don't deny that, but there's no warmth in their singing. They leave me cold. They don't have anything that gets me to sit up, to get under my skin, or in my head. They bore me. They're too pageanty. So the judges had to choose which version of Jessica they wanted. So they took Sonika. I think you can also put Gianna into that category too, but she doesn't leave me dead cold like Stephany and Sonika do. 

[sinycalone]

Scotty McCreery hasn't attended classes at NCSU in two years.  He has concentrated on touring and recording....he opened for Rascal Flatts last year and doing his own shows, and now is back headlining his own tour.exclusively.

 

He has ten-twelve songs already recorded for his next CD....but Mercury was dragging their heels about when it should be released.  That was the major problem between Scotty and Mercury.  Also, since the label picks the songs to be released as singles,  they were not selecting the ones Scotty would have preferred (a problem many artists face - including Carrie Underwood).  He has written at least 5 of the songs that are ready for the CD.

 

Evidently, The Band Perry just split with Big Machine (Scott Borchetta)...unfortunately, it happens a lot in all genres of music.

[perfectstorm]

Ah, the infamous Idol pageant.bot.  Jessica Sanchez was the poster child for that, lol.  The big ballads, the flowing evening gowns.  Standing there with a frozen smile; nodding with a scripted response.

I definitely see a few girls from this season falling into that.

[AshleyLyn]

Scotty McCreery hasn't attended classes at NCSU in two years. He has concentrated on touring and recording....he opened for Rascal Flatts last year and doing his own shows, and now is back headlining his own tour.exclusively.

.

Ahhh OK. Sorry. I remembered reading something about him and school but that might have been an old article.

I hope things get better for him then.

[sinycalone]

Ahhh OK. Sorry. I remembered reading something about him and school but that might have been an old article.

I hope things get better for him then.

 

 

Sometimes, as many people have posted, it might be better to not win AI.  The show, and its various entities, have their hands in the pockets of the winners for years afterwards.  I'm sure sharing revenue with AI/19Entertainment/Interscope is not a thrill for some of the labels involved.  The head of UMG. at the time Scotty was signed to their Mercury label, was OK with the system.  However, a couple of years ago, Mike Dungan became head of UMG - and the corporate "attitude" changed...a lot.

Edited February 13, 2016 by sinycalone

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Whereas I get the feeling that Sonika's lack of connection has a lot to do with her nerves and lack of self-confidence and experience.

 

Her Mean Girl behavior during group night shows she has way too much self-confidence.

[sleepyjean]

A few random thoughts:

 

1. When I saw Gianna's first audition, I thought she has a voice that is better than average and powerful. And great - I really liked that BKS song in the 80s. Now, with every subsequent appearance on my screen, my disbelief grows. I don't think about her good-ish singing anymore. I'm too focused on the fact that they are still throwing around the BKS thing. As if having a mother who was a one-hit-wonder 30 years ago, and a has-been ever since is something amazing that requires us to take notice of the daughter, and push her into the top ten. Whenever Gianna is on screen, I play a game with myself. "Would Gianna have made it this far if her parent was_______?" The guy from Right Said Fred? One of the Mary Jane Girls? That woman who sang 99 Luftballoons?

 

2. Regarding Jeneve and Avalon and their looks, think they are both talented singers. But I don't think either one of them is so scary-talented, or so fabulously unique-looking that conventional standards of attractiveness go out the window. In the world of manufactured stardom and hype that they are trying to break into, looks and sex appeal matter. They can both stick to their guns and be true to themselves or whatever, but neither of them will win this contest that way. I don't care if Avalon is a tomboy, but sometimes you need to adapt your style out of respect for the occasion. You don't have to wear a dress and heels, but you do need to elevate your regular day wear. The way she dresses tells me she doesn't give a crap, so neither do I. As for Jeneve, I see the braces as a real barrier. They can change her hair, her wardrobe, and her cosmetics, but the braces make her look very young and unsophisticated. (Sorry braces wearers.) I can't see her on the cover of People Magazine with those braces.

 

The problem with these two is neither Avalon nor Jeneve is bucking convention in a way that is interesting or compelling. They are caught between a rock and a hard place. The looks they are rocking are by turns unattractive and comical. And yet, I doubt either one could successfully carry off a "pop" makeover and look comfortable with pouty lips, beachy waves, body-con outfits, and all that jazz. Damned if they do. Damned if they don't. I think they are both doomed as far as this competition goes..

[Kromm]

A few random thoughts:

 

1. When I saw Gianna's first audition, I thought she has a voice that is better than average and powerful. And great - I really liked that BKS song in the 80s. Now, with every subsequent appearance on my screen, my disbelief grows. I don't think about her good-ish singing anymore. I'm too focused on the fact that they are still throwing around the BKS thing. As if having a mother who was a one-hit-wonder 30 years ago, and a has-been ever since is something amazing that requires us to take notice of the daughter, and push her into the top ten. Whenever Gianna is on screen, I play a game with myself. "Would Gianna have made it this far if her parent was_______?" The guy from Right Said Fred? One of the Mary Jane Girls? That woman who sang 99 Luftballoons?

 

2. Regarding Jeneve and Avalon and their looks, think they are both talented singers. But I don't think either one of them is so scary-talented, or so fabulously unique-looking that conventional standards of attractiveness go out the window. In the world of manufactured stardom and hype that they are trying to break into, looks and sex appeal matter. They can both stick to their guns and be true to themselves or whatever, but neither of them will win this contest that way. I don't care if Avalon is a tomboy, but sometimes you need to adapt your style out of respect for the occasion. You don't have to wear a dress and heels, but you do need to elevate your regular day wear. The way she dresses tells me she doesn't give a crap, so neither do I. As for Jeneve, I see the braces as a real barrier. They can change her hair, her wardrobe, and her cosmetics, but the braces make her look very young and unsophisticated. (Sorry braces wearers.) I can't see her on the cover of People Magazine with those braces.

 

The problem with these two is neither Avalon nor Jeneve is bucking convention in a way that is interesting or compelling. They are caught between a rock and a hard place. The looks they are rocking are by turns unattractive and comical. And yet, I doubt either one could successfully carry off a "pop" makeover and look comfortable with pouty lips, beachy waves, body-con outfits, and all that jazz. Damned if they do. Damned if they don't. I think they are both doomed as far as this competition goes..

Exactly. It's not about conventional standards of beauty, as Avalon has pontificated about. It's about showing you give a crap about your audience.  My grandma used to call it "making an effort". You make an effort to look better, because people are paying money to see you.  You can stick to your guns about specific aesthetic decisions, but you do have to adhere to general things that show you give a crap. And really Avalon doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm pretty sure she was wearing makeup on that first performance show (the taped one from last week), and she does seem to have at least a little traditional vanity about her hair (although as I've said elsewhere, her whole attitude really IS about vanity--because ultimately caring TOO much about NOT looking a certain way really is just code talk about caring TOO much about looking a different way... and that's vanity).  

[Guest]

I don't think Avalon is vain or is pontificating about vanity.  I think she is saying she prefers to dress androgynous/casual and fuck anyone who doesn't like it.  I doubt it's an issue in her day to day life but this is where the producers make them repeat the same theme every sound bite.  

 

I know several young women like her and it's not a vanity thing, it's more a gender identity thing.  They want to be neutral and not be judged for it, and not have to explain it by bringing their sexual orientation into it or anything else.  

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Her Mean Girl behavior during group night shows she has way too much self-confidence.

 

I know I am in the minority in this, but honestly, I never got the Mean Girl vibe that night because, IIRC, I thought the girl who left/was booted was a huge producer-planted pain in the ass with the requisite drama-mama from hell. Good riddance and can't blame the other girls for giving her the stink eye.

[kili]

The problem with these two is neither Avalon nor Jeneve is bucking convention in a way that is interesting or compelling.

True. Avalon isn't bucking any convention because many women dress like her all the time. Nothing unusual. Geneva is dressing like nobody does anywhere, but it's not interesting.

Exactly. It's not about conventional standards of beauty, as Avalon has pontificated about. It's about showing you give a crap about your audience.  My grandma used to call it "making an effort". You make an effort to look better, because people are paying money to see you.

 

 

So, Coldplay didn't give a crap about the Superbowl audience? Or any audience?  Or twenty one pilots? (jeans, hoodies and a red toque?)  Drake (t-shirts/jeans)?  Foo Fighters (t-shirts, plaid shirts, jeans)? Does Ed Sheeran even own a comb? (forget rolling out of bed to perform, he looks like he rolled off the couch and hasn't showered for three days). 

 

And yet, I doubt either one could successfully carry off a "pop" makeover and look comfortable with pouty lips, beachy waves, body-con outfits, and all that jazz.

Thank goodness. Is anybody else tired of watching award shows where all the men perform in there gardening clothes while all the women perform in their underwear?

Edited February 14, 2016 by kili

[Guest]

Stephany was about there.  When the women can barely walk because their heels almost make their foot vertical, something's wrong.  And then that shining example of professional womanhood JLo chastises her for trying to take them off to celebrate... "No!  Remain in pain!  Never let them see you barefoot and comfortable and human!"  Heh.  

[thefog]

There's very little anyone could do to "showcase" Nick Who? well enough to make him memorable.

Who better to guide the contestants on how to cope with their lack of careers or relevance after the show.  Grandpa Nick comes off so thirsty and so does his annoying, pretentious fanatic, Eilonwy_has_an_aardvark.  His new single is a train wreck.  That mad man, Scott Borchetta has his voice ridiculously auto tune to copy Adam Levine.

Edited February 14, 2016 by escape

[27bored]

Poor Jeneve looks like the love child of early K.D. Lang and Jimmy Fallon's "Eww" girl. It looked like she was having trouble functioning because she had a huge mega crush on Scotty. She's 15 but a YOUNG 15. 

That is toooo funny. I absolutely agree.

 

I see no problem with what Avalon is wearing. James VIII was no more dressed up than she was and nobody is complaining about him. Lots of guys on this show have worn super-casual outfits over the years. Avril Lavigne had her initial success dressed like that. Justin Bieber wears baggy jeans, sweatshirts and a ball-cap to most of his award show performances. As do many of the rappers and all the current rockers. Coldplay just played the Superbowl half-time in baggy sweatshirts and jeans.

 

I see your point to an extent, but you can't compare Avalon to celebrities who have been in the business for years to chick who just cracked the Top 12 on American Idol. Guys playing in bands are known to "dress down", but even they generally have a cohesive look to them, and while Bieber dresses like an L.A. hipster-in-rehab now, he's no stranger to pop star outfits and swag coaches and all that. He didn't amass fame and fortune by dressing like a regular dude. As far as Avril is concerned, her whole skater-punk look was contrived back in 2002 when she came out, and it was A Thing when she did it. Her, Michelle Branch, and Vanessa Carlton were supposed to represent the normal girls who play instrument and don't have the pop star images like Britney, Christina, and Jessica Simpson.

 

2. Regarding Jeneve and Avalon and their looks, think they are both talented singers. But I don't think either one of them is so scary-talented, or so fabulously unique-looking that conventional standards of attractiveness go out the window. In the world of manufactured stardom and hype that they are trying to break into, looks and sex appeal matter. They can both stick to their guns and be true to themselves or whatever, but neither of them will win this contest that way. I don't care if Avalon is a tomboy, but sometimes you need to adapt your style out of respect for the occasion. You don't have to wear a dress and heels, but you do need to elevate your regular day wear. The way she dresses tells me she doesn't give a crap, so neither do I. As for Jeneve, I see the braces as a real barrier. They can change her hair, her wardrobe, and her cosmetics, but the braces make her look very young and unsophisticated. (Sorry braces wearers.) I can't see her on the cover of People Magazine with those braces.

 

Exactly. It's not about conventional standards of beauty, as Avalon has pontificated about. It's about showing you give a crap about your audience.  My grandma used to call it "making an effort". You make an effort to look better, because people are paying money to see you.  You can stick to your guns about specific aesthetic decisions, but you do have to adhere to general things that show you give a crap. And really Avalon doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm pretty sure she was wearing makeup on that first performance show (the taped one from last week), and she does seem to have at least a little traditional vanity about her hair (although as I've said elsewhere, her whole attitude really IS about vanity--because ultimately caring TOO much about NOT looking a certain way really is just code talk about caring TOO much about looking a different way... and that's vanity).

 

I think these are both right. I'll say Jeneve just needs to stop dressing like she's parodying herself. Having a look is important, but it develops over time. At fifteen, it's not as important, and I don't see Jeneve as being the kind of artist who is known for her Look anyway. She's a pretty girl, she's talented, and seems like a sweetheart. Don't dress how rich people from Beverly Hills think women in rodeo dress.

 

Avalon is a bit different. There's a way to dress like a Normal Girl and still have it be A Look. I think someone who has mostly done this to good effect is Colbie Caillat. She grew up in privilege (her dad was the producer for two Fleetwood Mac albums), but her image has always been that of a laid-back California girl.

[rereader2]

Does Ed Sheeran even own a comb? (forget rolling out of bed to perform, he looks like he rolled off the couch and hasn't showered for three days).

Well, that literally made me LOL... (To be fair to Ed, it's more like rolled off the bus--he works like a whole team of huskies, not just the one proverbial dog. But yeah, his "look" does seem to be deliberate!)

Edited February 14, 2016 by rereader2

[kili]

while Bieber dresses like an L.A. hipster-in-rehab now, he's no stranger to pop star outfits and swag coaches and all that. He didn't amass fame and fortune by dressing like a regular dude.

Bieber gained fame and fortune as a youtube star at the age of 14.  His early marketing was all about being the boy-next-door in his t-shirt and jeans. He was the very epitome of a regular dude. He did get a bit of stylish-hip-look for his  out-of-control days, but now he's back to being just a regular-looking guy and nobody is telling him he should be wearing a tux to perform. 

 

I see your point to an extent, but you can't compare Avalon to celebrities who have been in the business for years to chick who just cracked the Top 12 on American Idol

Ed Sheeran started out in the business looking like a homeless person and managed to become a huge star doing it. 

 

To use an Idol version of dressing up and dressing down at the same point in their career, here are two clips of group numbers from early (second concert) on the Idol Season 10 tour (both taken by the same person so it normalizes for crowd reaction). Born This Way by the girls and Animal by the boys.  Both songs were recent pop hits. The girls come out "making an effort" in beautiful gowns and sky-high stilettos (except for Lauren - she wisely wears boots). The guys make no effort at all: t-shirts, jean jackets, jeans and runners. The girls sing wonderfully and move carefully from spot to spot on the stage where they shimmy a little. The guys skip down-stairs, run around the stage, bounce, jump up and down, swing their arms enthusiastically and have fun goofing with each other. They can do that because they are wearing clothes and shoes that permit them to do that. Despite their "lack of effort" to not look like regular guys, the crowd seems to enjoy the performance (the crowd ends up on their feet). The girls got applause, but did not get the crowd out of their seats. BTW during the very next concert, Lauren fell down a set of stairs (backstage) in sky-high stilettos and ended up with a third-degree sprain that left her on crutches. 

 

When Avalon performs, she can easily move about the stage and that enhances the performance more than stilettos and a ball gown ever could. Years of conditioning by male performers in their grubbies have made me immune from expecting my singers to be dressed like they are on their way to prom. I just want a good show. I think I get a better show when the girls aren't spending a good portion of their brain power on figuring out how to navigate the stage in heels or being hampered by constrictive clothes.  So long as she sings well and moves about the stage to add liveliness to the performance, she can perform in her comfortable clothes all she likes. IMO.

[BogoGog24]

The duets were mostly a terrible idea, I thought. Basically just an excuse for nostalgia and to bring back former Idols. We all know it is complete BS that the duets factored into the judges’ (aka producers’) decisions about who was going to advance. In fact, I’d even venture to say they had most of their picks before they even sang their solos. The duets were just supposed to be fun and nostalgic and give a bit of a boost for the returning Idols publicity (especially those like Nick and Caleb who haven’t had much post-show success).

 

To be honest I got annoyed when the judges kept criticizing the contestants for the song not suiting them or the Idol outperforming them. I don’t know who was responsible for choosing the songs, but clearly the contestants had no say in who or what they got saddled with. And of course people who have already not only gone through this process but have had post-show careers (especially Ruben and Fantasia who have now been kicking around for years) are going to outperform those just starting out. What stupid comments. It’s completely unfair to criticize the contestants for these kinds of things. Most of the former Idols were exactly the same way when they first started on the show, that’s kind of the whole point, is that it takes singers with potential and makes them into a star (using that term lightly, by the way). A lot of these kids have potential, but they’re only just beginning. Give ‘em a break!

 

Ok aside from my irks with the judges’ stupid comments:

 

Emily Brooke and Lauren Alaina – I guess I’m in the minority here because I loved Lauren on her season. She’s a big personality that I can understand getting on some people’s nerves or rubbing people the wrong way, but I think she’s hilarious and fun. At 15 she was already a way better singer than any of the 15 year olds they put through this season. And she has improved even more as a singer now. I thought she sounded fantastic in both of her performances that night. Poor Emily really didn’t stand much of a chance up against a powerhouse like Lauren. I think this song was way too big for Emily. So yeah of course Lauren completely outshone Emily on this, in both vocals and performance. Poor Emily just got saddled with the wrong partner and the wrong song. On paper the pairing made sense because they’re both such similar artists, but their voices did not work well together. It was like watching a lion with a mouse.

 

Thomas with Nick – This was one of the few times I thought Thomas actually sounded good while singing. At least the yipping made more sense here because it’s a Michael Jackson song. I thought it mostly worked. I couldn’t believe it when Harry said he didn’t like this performance (and also criticized Thomas for this song not being right for him even though he had no control over what song he got!) and actually said his Creep travesty from the previous night was better. I want whatever Harry is smoking.

 

Stephany and Ruben – Overall I thought one of the better pairings. Ruben held back nicely. They sounded overall pretty good together.

 

Sonika and Caleb – This was just one of those WTF pairings. Like they thought of all the pairings that would make sense together and then whoever was left over just got thrown together with whoever didn’t have a partner. I think Sonika has a beautiful voice but I agree with those who say she is too stiff onstage. I think Caleb might have even been trying to hold back a bit for her sake and he still outshone her. Even Caleb could not draw out any emotion from Sonika.

 

Jenna and Scotty – Out of the 2 Scotty pairings, this one was undoubtedly the better one. However the song choice was strange and I don’t think worked well as a duet (or maybe because I’m just used to hearing the solo version). Jenna’s voice sounded weird the whole time. Something was very off with all of it. Almost like it was flat or something.

 

La’Porsha with Fantasia – They should have saved this for the last performance of the night instead of Jordan. I don’t know why they didn’t (maybe TPTB didn’t want to get shafted for putting LP in the pimp spot again?) This was one of the few pairings of the night where the contestant actually could compete on the same level as the Idol they were singing with. Fantastic job by both ladies. I was confused by Harry’s comment though about liking the runs. I thought he hated excessive runs? Oh Harry how soft thou hast become.

 

MacKenzie with Lauren – This was the other WTF pairing. Whoever thought these 2 should duet together needs to be fired immediately. In what universe does this pairing make any sense? I think Lauren flirted with MacKenzie so excessively because she felt like she needed to give him something after completely wiping the floor with him so hard. I think she was even trying to hold back in some spots on this song and she still completely annihilated him. His voice was terrible for this song. Again, like watching a lion sing with a mouse. MacKenzie’s voice is just far too weak and breathy to handle this or stand up to a powerhouse like Lauren. This pairing was all kinds of no. Lauren sounded gorgeous though.

 

Gianna with Nick – This song does not work as a duet and I think even both Nick and Gianna knew that. This was so very clearly just pimpage for Nick’s single. Gianna sounded all over the place with it and like it did not suit her voice very well. But I guess JLo made a good point when she said they needed to find something they could sing together, I mean a 15 year old and a 29 year old can’t exactly be singing a love song together or something. It felt like a brother-sister pairing.

 

Avalon with Ruben – Honestly, I thought one of the best duets of the night. Their voices blended so gorgeously together, even though I think the song stinks. Avalon should have dressed a little better though (more on that later).

 

James VIII with Caleb – Well this was a strange one. I think this was more of a James backing up Caleb performance than a duet. If it wasn’t supposed to be a duet, I think this would have been awesome and one of the best overall performances of the night. James is definitely way more suited to guitar playing. Caleb killed it. But this really showed James’s weaknesses as a singer. Maybe Caleb will put him in his band.

 

Jeneve with Scotty – Worst performance of the entire night and that’s saying something considering there were some trainwrecks. This was just all kinds of wrong. Scotty looked awkward onstage and like he couldn’t believe he got saddled with this chick. Her outfit was ridiculous. At first I thought she was wearing a long skirt and then I realized they were pants. I can’t with her excessive mugging at the camera all the time and goofy expressions. Her Angel performance from the previous night was starting to turn things around for her and then she had to go and do this. I think she felt uncomfortable with the song and decided being funny with it would help her perform it. I appreciated Keith’s straight up honesty and frankness about how god awful the whole thing was.

 

Jordan with Fantasia – Yeah I totally noticed when Jordan crossed in front of Tasia to grab a fan’s hand. I felt like he was trying to compete with Fantasia and just try to keep up with what she was doing. I don’t know why this received the pimp slot. I think this song might have been too big for Jordan’s voice. I actually think he is one of the strongest technical singers in the bunch but he tries too hard with these big diva songs. At least he got a decent haircut before he left.

 

Overall no real upsets at these results. I might have put in Stephany over Jeneve though. I think it’s incredibly interesting that so many people think Stephany should have gone through, yet she is very similar to a lot of the pageant bot types that get put through on every season (think Pia Toscano types) that viewers always complain about only being there for looks. I think if Stephany had gotten through this year that’s exactly what viewers would be saying about her. I think she’s a talented vocalist and has all the makings of a pop star but I agree with those who say she lacks any kind of emotional depth. Still, I think she is more deserving than Jeneve. Jeneve just reminds me of a joke contestant.

 

Which leads me to jump in with the discussion about her and Avalon’s styling. I think it’s fine that Avalon doesn’t want to dress girly and wear dresses or heels. But her issue is that she lacks any kind of good style. She insists on wearing those ugly ass Cosby sweaters and the outfit she wore for her duet with Ruben looked like she was going on a secret mission. It was way too dressed down in comparison to what he wore. I’ve never really liked it when guys do the same thing either. There is dressing casual (like for example MacKenzie does, with just his short sleeved shirts, pants, and chunky sneakers) and dressing like an unfashionable slob. I think Avalon mostly dresses very sloppy and like she doesn’t care. Like she just rolled out of bed and decided to get up onstage. Somebody upthread mentioned Avril Lavigne (brownie points to you because I’m a huge Avril fan), yes Avril dressed very tomboy and skater girl in her early career but she had something that resembled a style with the ties and the spiky bracelets, etc. It was at least fashionable and stylish looking and like she put some actual thought and coordination into her outfits. Avalon doesn’t look like she does that at all. I have just as much disdain for it when I see the guys walk into the audition room wearing a hoodie with jeans. Casual dress does not equal sloppy dress. Like I said, MacKenzie is a perfect example of dressing casual while still looking presentable and decent.

 

Jeneve, well she’s a whole other problem. I think she probably dresses at least somewhat like that back on her mountain but I think either she or TPTB or both are playing it up to separate her from the pack. It’s totally hokey and ridiculous but you have to admit it’s gotten her noticed and people remember her. Like Sanjaya with his ponyhawk. She’s essentially this year’s Sanjaya/Lazaro and they probably felt inclined to fill the “joke” contestant spot for the final season.

This is totally off topic but I saw someone ask about the kid that wrote his own song (the guy Harry hug-assaulted). He did not get cut, he quit in the middle of Hollywood week. There were a few articles about it online. I think he just wanted to go a different route than Idol or basically get just enough publicity out of it to get people to check out his music without going too far in the process.

 

Group 2 looks like it will be way better than Group 1. Overall I think the contestants in group 2 are some of the better and more fan favorite ones than there were in Group 1. Can’t wait to see Dalton. <3 I read spoilers about what he sang and I am so excited to see how it's going to unfold.

[rose711]

My comment about Avalon is how she looked in the duet with Rueben who had an immaculate suit. There is a vast range between Stephany's look and Avalon's gym clothes and I think the stylists are letting her and the show down by having her look so plain.

That's part of the reason I think the show sees her and Jeneve (and Gianna as well) as fodder for Tristan, who showed up with a completely different look with extensions the last time we saw her. They don't want to make them look their best because they don't care if the succeed.

In a way I feel sorry for Jeneve, who is young and inexperienced when Scotty clearly hates being on stage with her and the judges find it bizarre. I think she has talent but her look makes it more difficult for her talent to shine through, at least that last look was way too much.

Also, Avalon should be willing to take advice. It's one thing to audition looking frumpy, but she is just kidding herself if she doesn't think image matters. She could do well, I like her voice, but she's going to need more energy in her performances fairly soon.

As for the guys, I don't care about any of the guys on this weeks show, but I didn't hear any of them saying their appearance doesn't matter. I would comment on them if I cared more about them.

[rose711]

I thought Stephany was robbed, but she didn't hel herself signing the very passionate and soulful Adele as if she was an ice queen. I think her voice was one of the best and she deserved to move on and learn to improve her performance.

Sonika was a mean girl when she was asked if she knew the other girl might leave and she just said oh. I don't find her likable an I don't think she is going to learn how to relate to people.

[Kromm]

Avalon is a bit different. There's a way to dress like a Normal Girl and still have it be A Look. I think someone who has mostly done this to good effect is Colbie Caillat. She grew up in privilege (her dad was the producer for two Fleetwood Mac albums), but her image has always been that of a laid-back California girl.

Someone a bit back got a bit insistent that Avalon's schtick is more about coming off as androgynous than "normal girl". The problem with that analysis, of course, is that's not what she's SAYING about herself. Even so, if the point was androgyny, she's still missing the mark. I mean plenty of people have gone before who did androgynous without looking like a mix between a street person and 80s Bill Cosby. 

Also, Avalon should be willing to take advice. It's one thing to audition looking frumpy, but she is just kidding herself if she doesn't think image matters. She could do well, I like her voice, but she's going to need more energy in her performances fairly soon.

The contrast between the quality of her voice and her appearance is going to start to matter more and more as the show delves into more spectacle, as it always does near the end (and will triple down on in the final season). 

And again, I think it's ultimately an expression of ego. I know people have said stuff like it's her expressing her (theoretical) sexuality, but I just don't buy there's no ego involved when it comes to applying that to being on national TV. Boy George and Annie Lennox didn't lose themselves dressing up for the stage/TV, and only stubborn pride would insist a younger generation is losing themselves somehow by making similar accommodations.

[TheGreenKnight]

As for the guys, I don't care about any of the guys on this weeks show, but I didn't hear any of them saying their appearance doesn't matter.

That's because they don't have to give an explanation for looking average or casual. Nobody's going to go in on how they look like they will the girls. It's really a no-win situation for the women: either dress to the nines in a ballgown and heels, look uncomfortable and be labeled a pageantbot, or look like yourself and be called lazy, ugly, etc.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Bieber gained fame and fortune as a youtube star at the age of 14.  His early marketing was all about being the boy-next-door in his t-shirt and jeans. He was the very epitome of a regular dude. He did get a bit of stylish-hip-look for his  out-of-control days, but now he's back to being just a regular-looking guy and nobody is telling him he should be wearing a tux to perform.

 

Bieber is on the cover of the latest GQ.

[BogoGog24]

That's because they don't have to give an explanation for looking average or casual. Nobody's going to go in on how they look like they will the girls. It's really a no-win situation for the women: either dress to the nines in a ballgown and heels, look uncomfortable and be labeled a pageantbot, or look like yourself and be called lazy, ugly, etc.

I think most of us are saying there's a happy medium between those 2 things. Like what about the way Olivia dresses? She incorporates her own personal rock chick style into it but looks comfortable as well. For her showcase performance she wore Docs. There was at least some semblance of personal style there and like she put thought into it. On a personal note I think Dalton has the best fashion sense of anyone though

[Guest]

... BTW during the very next concert, Lauren fell down a set of stairs (backstage) in sky-high stilettos and ended up with a third-degree sprain that left her on crutches. 

 

I often cringe watch the girls on their super high heels and then the one time Haley R. actually did fall down on stage, I felt horrible for her. 

 

I think it's kind of sad to see women go to huge lengths.  For those awards shows, they all starve themselves for days to look just right.   Even the skinny women in the public eye now have to wear Spanx 7 days a week because god forbid anyone see a panty line or bulge.  Have you worn Spanx?  They suck.  I think corsets might be more humane.  

 

Avalon is a bit different. There's a way to dress like a Normal Girl and still have it be A Look. 

 

I make fun of Avalon's look but I think to her generation it might actually be A Look.  I showed her audition to my androgynous dresser teen and she said, "I have those pieces. I could make that outfit.  I will make that outfit."  And she's into fashion, too.  I thought Avalon looked like she rolled out of bed.  She thought it was a cute outfit.

 

Did anyone watch Project Runway: Junior?  The judges really liked androgynous Samantha's androgynous designs.  I hated them.  My daughter liked them.  I have a feeling many of us here are just not the right demographic to appreciate it (yet)?  

[BogoGog24]

TBH I never got why female contestants felt like they had to wear heels. It's not like anyone is forcing them to. If you don't want to wear them, don't. If they fall on their face then they should have chosen different shoes. They mostly can choose what they wear.

[Kromm]

I often cringe watch the girls on their super high heels and then the one time Haley R. actually did fall down on stage, I felt horrible for her. 

 

I think it's kind of sad to see women go to huge lengths.  For those awards shows, they all starve themselves for days to look just right.   Even the skinny women in the public eye now have to wear Spanx 7 days a week because god forbid anyone see a panty line or bulge.  Have you worn Spanx?  They suck.  I think corsets might be more humane.  

 

 

I make fun of Avalon's look but I think to her generation it might actually be A Look.  I showed her audition to my androgynous dresser teen and she said, "I have those pieces. I could make that outfit.  I will make that outfit."  And she's into fashion, too.  I thought Avalon looked like she rolled out of bed.  She thought it was a cute outfit.

 

Did anyone watch Project Runway: Junior?  The judges really liked androgynous Samantha's androgynous designs.  I hated them.  My daughter liked them.  I have a feeling many of us here are just not the right demographic to appreciate it (yet)?  

An 80s Cosby type sweater is what communicates androgyny?  Pardon me if I'm skeptical.

[queenanne]

One important difference (for me, anyway) is that Avalon strikes me as someone whose clothes look terrible because they are cheap.  I got the JC Penney $10 cotton look off them, whereas you can be sure that any awful tee shirt Bieber wears costs more like $120 - and high end does make a difference, I don't care what people say about their Old Navy duds being "just as good" as Abercrombie.  (I wear both, but I have no illusions that they wear the same.  Cheaper wears worse, lies worse, develops permanent bends at the hem you have to iron out, etc.)  At least, I think that Avalon's outfits make her look flat out broke; and the background of someone named after a Roxy Music song makes me think her parents were interesting lower middle class scrappers; I could of course be wrong).

Edited February 14, 2016 by queenanne

[rereader2]

the background of someone named after a Roxy Music song makes me think her parents were interesting lower middle class scrappers; I could of course be wrong).

Or possibly named after Arthurian legend.

[Guest]

Or possibly named after Arthurian legend.

She said in her audition she was named after the song.  

 

I kind of looked around to see what her folks do but I didn't see it.  Between her name and her dad's look, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something musical.  She grew up in San Diego, so they must do ok.  It's pricey there.  

 

Her bio did have this paragraph about her style:

My style is a little bit of everything. My favorite brands are Stussy and Vans. I love streetwear and urban clothing. Other times I’m down to wear some t-shirts I got for a few dollars at a thrift-store with a flannel tied around my waste. I love high top sneakers and crew socks. Most importantly, I always stay true to myself when it comes to being comfortable. Chances are you’ll never find me in a skirt or dress, sorry.

[Kromm]

See, that's the very problem there. She equates any attempt to elevate her style as "putting her in a skirt or dress". She either doesn't perceive, or admit to, a middleground where she can maintain whatever amount of androgyny she wants, but not be in cheap looking ILL FITTING clothes.

[waving feather]

See, that's the very problem there. She equates any attempt to elevate her style as "putting her in a skirt or dress". She either doesn't perceive, or admit to, a middleground where she can maintain whatever amount of androgyny she wants, but not be in cheap looking ILL FITTING clothes.

I totally agree. For the LIVE rounds, I would like to see her in better clothing. She can maintain her own style - baggy, casual and boyish. But that doesn't mean it needs to look dull and ugly. I mean Adam Levine mostly wear t-shirts and jeans but you can tell his clothes are expensive just by the design and QUALITY of it. It's show biz, they need to look presentable in whatever style they want.

From her quote you can see the immaturity in her thinking. Oh well, she's young.

Edited February 15, 2016 by waving feather

[TeeMo]

Though I did think Avalon looked a bit silly next to Ruben who was in a suit, overall I don't give a rip what she wears. I also think she probably went with that all black ensemble in an attempt to look a bit sleeker next to Ruben while still keeping a casual look. It was a failure but I do believe it was an authentic look for her. I just can't get riled up about it and I disagree that it is a calculated try hard situation comparable to Calamity Jane who will probably perform next week in head to toe fringe with a lasso in hand.

I think she is just a casual girl who is casual at all times and wants to stay casual here. Is it silly? A little. Will she look back 15 years from now and think that she maybe should have put aside the Cosby sweaters and made a bit more of an effort to look a little more polished on this big stage? Maybe. But she is 21 and has been working on a music career for a while in this lane with this style. I doubt she cares much if a bunch of people on a TV message board think she should put on a skirt and a little lip gloss or that her approach to style is not genuine. I am not surprised that she seems pretty set in her decision to portray this casual image. I felt passionately and behaved stubbornly about equally stupid things at 21. If she wants to wear an ill-fitting sweater and leggings every week, more power to her. Part of her appeal is the ease of her performance and I expect that would disappear if she were on stage in a skirt and heels. Is there a happy medium between Sonika's ball gown and Avalon's faded old sweaters? Of course. But I suspect the middle ground is as unappealing to Avalon as the ball gown and that is totally her prerogative.

[BogoGog24]

I totally agree. For the LIVE rounds, I would like to see her in better clothing. She can maintain her own style - baggy, casual and boyish. But that doesn't mean it needs to look dull and ugly. I mean Adam Levine mostly wear t-shirts and jeans but you can tell his clothes are expensive just by the design and QUALITY of it. It's show biz, they need to look presentable in whatever style they want.

From her quote you can see the immaturity in her thinking. Oh well, she's young.

She also used the wrong form of "waist" which irks the grammar nazi in me.

[AshleyLyn]

I can see Avalon going the Phillip Phillips route and refuse to change her appearance? Phillip listened to Tommy Hilfiger (sp) and then pretty much said "No." But his looks fits him.

If Avalon wants to stick with casual she can. But just like with Phillip she can do casual in a good way and not look..well the way she did. I totally get not wanting to wear make up and not wanting to get dolled up. She wants to be comfortable. But you can be comfortable and still look good which is what she needs to learn.

[Guest]

I think the show gives them a budget for their clothes for the live shows and/or access to good stuff, and also advice and suggestions and final approval.  I doubt they let her pocket it and wear her thrift store stuff.  

 

I wouldn't recognize a "good" t-shirt over a Vans/Stussy t-shirt.  Adam Levine always looks ok to me but that's because he's good looking and well-built.

[Tosia]

I love Avalon and her individuality, although she wont win. Maybe she'll have an Indie career/following.

It'sexism, folks. Guys can dress down and still look fine, whereas there is an underlying expectation for women to look somewhat, dressed better-- more pulled together, whether it's expensive or not.

Musicians, artists, and celebrities have a wider latitude to be different--disheveled if you will, but again it's ok for guys, not so much for women'-at least not in mainstream media, music, or tv/movies. Who will sell the clothes?! And makeup, jewelry, hair products?

My view is that women are kind of expected to bring the civilized factors to bear on society, whereas men do their own thing, Not that that is right! Athough men can do civilized too. But men, IMHO, also are under less social restraints. God know, women are still blamed for sexual assaults against them.

Jeneve is way too young for this competition, and AI needs to stop her from being the joke--even if it!'s her own style. It's mean, and she hurts my eyes.

[waving feather]

It'sexism, folks. Guys can dress down and still look fine, whereas there is an underlying expectation for women to look somewhat, dressed better-- more pulled together, whether it's expensive or not.

Musicians, artists, and celebrities have a wider latitude to be different--disheveled if you will, but again it's ok for guys, not so much for women'-at least not in mainstream media, music, or tv/movies. Who will sell the clothes?! And makeup, jewelry, hair products?

Nah, I found Phillip Phillips old grey t-shirt super fugly too and was always relieved whenever he wears something more presentable. I'm shallow in the sense that I like looking at presentable people on my TV. I don't really care how people in real life dress. Edited February 15, 2016 by waving feather

[Guest]

I can't picture Phillip in a gray t-shirt (Simon I can!) so I did a google image search of "phillip phillips american idol" and in most of the pics he's in button-downs, which is what I remember him wearing so much.  I do see a couple gray t-shirts too, though.

 

I loved it when he said no to the Hilfiger makeover.  

 

I didn't know he got married last fall.