S02.E13: Welcome To Earth-2

[Enero]

I tuned in for the first time in months because I heard that TPTB would finally utilize Iris. I was not disappointed. I thought CP was fantastic as Earth2 Iris. When given the opportunity she's proven time and again that she can handle more to do.

I see that Barry is still executing plans that haven't been thoroughly thought through. Hence his mission turning into a fiasco on Earth2.

Loved evil Cisco, for once he came off as a man and not a little kid. It was kind of sexy.

Killer Frost and Firestorm looked the part but the acting was atrocious. Also at times they seemed more cowardly than cocky which didn't do their characters any favors .

One thing I finally realized in this episode was that I detest Joe. Jessie L. Martin is wonderful but I have no love for Joe and did not care when he died.

The Earth1 storyline was as boring as the first episode of this season, just nothing interesting about it at all.

A couple of nitpicks:

If Barry took E2 Barry's clothes to impersonate him, how did he miss that E2 was wearing a wedding ring?

Why didn't Iris make a bigger deal about Barry not wearing his wedding ring?

Why didn't Iris question Barry's introduction of his friend Cisco whom she'd never met much less heard of?

Who strips down to their bra as soon as they walk in the door? Iris taking off her shirt as soon as her and Barry got home was completely contrived and looked really awkward. As was her going upstairs for two seconds and changing into her silk nightgown without even taking her hair down, removing her earrings or showering. They didn't even have dinner. Just really contrived. I guess this was supposed to be a bone for the WestAllen fans but IMHO it played more awkward than anything.

This episode reminded be of the first half of S1 Flash, very fun and entertaining even if some things made no sense.

I do agree with whoever that said that E2 Barry seems to be out of E2 Iris' league. I too would love to see how they got together.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I really liked this episode!

 

I loved Barry and Cisco's frozen smiles when introduced to Harry's assistant? The dude with the anger management issues on their Earth?

 

And if I hadn't read it here before watching, I wouldn't have known that Earth-2 Barry has the phone numbers for Bruce, Hal, Diana... because I couldn't even make out the names from where I was sitting. I would have had to have super xray vision!

 

Who was the man in the iron mask that was tapping against the glass in Zoom's prison?

 

Zoom's long drawn out way of speaking/threatening still makes me yaaaaaawn. I don't find him scary at all.

 

I did love how Earth-2 Barry totally geeked out when he met Harry! Gustin is just so ADORKABLE when he's...earnest.

 

DCAU's Killer Frost is still EONS better than this show's version of her.

[phoenics]

I loved this episode and enjoyed it from start to finish.  I actually saw the time fly by and just loved it.

 

CP proves AGAIN That she's the best actress on the show - her portrayal of Det. West was so amazing - I just loved it.  She's proven that she deserves top billing and the writers really need to stop messing around and give her credit where it's due.  The hospital scene made me cry, I loved how CP was able to show both strength and vulnerability - she was strong and assertive but still a woman.  They really wrote her very well.  What struck me was how NATURAL the character and the portrayal seemed - I truly believed this was a different Iris, but still Iris.  So meta, lol.

 

I LOVED her portrayal and honestly don't understand the one criticism in this thread dissing CP's performance.  Whet?

 

I also thought GG did an amazing job as well with playing Barry getting totally distracted by Iris and falling right into E1Barry's life - the convo with his mom, finding out Joe doesn't like him, him slowly but surely weakening and eventually kissing E2Iris back and returning her declaration of love as though he was tired of fighting his re-emerging feelings... just stellar.  And Holy Cow - when he took off the glasses after Cisco and Iris left for KF's lair - shades of Superman in that scene totally.  That made me REALLY excited.  Even though he's so not Clark Kent, lol.  But it was just such a cool nod.

 

And Carlos!  OMGosh - his portrayal of Reverb was inspired.  Loved it loved it loved it.  I am actually upset that Zoom killed him!  Please give Carlos more to do - that was AMAZING.  The change in tone, posture, swag - all of it... damn.  

 

Robbie Amell was phoning Deathstorm in - sorry.  Just nothing there at all.  I also noticed that the show double dubbed Killer Frost's voice (meaning they played two audio tracks when she spoke, slightly offset)... I guess to make her seem more imposing?  I found the KF dialogue to be stilted and unnatural - literally trying too hard.  It felt like Caitlin playing dress up.  Just no.  I expected more I guess.

 

I am now wondering if Jay is Zoom.  But more specifically, I wonder if Jay is caught in some kind of time situation where (like in Terminator), he comes to Earth 1 (where we are further behind on the timeline).  The work with Caitlin creates Velocity 9, where Zoom is created from that.  Kinda like how in Terminator, the dude gets sent back in time to protect Sarah Connor, by Sarah's son, but then sleeps with Sarah, producing Sarah's son.  I think Jay fights Zoom on Earth 2 (and Earth 2 is further in the future than Earth 1), travels to Earth 1 and then through his work with Caitlin, Harry and himself, creates Velocity 9, which is what ultimately creates Zoom.  It's a paradox, yes, but I've been pondering this theory for a while.  Thus Jay is innocent right now - he doesn't know that he becomes Zoom.

 

Anyway - that's my theory.

 

I cannot wait for the next episode.

 

Oh!  Forgot Deadshot!  I miss him and really loved his portrayal here.  His nerves when trying to load his gun and Iris' firm yet kind comment that he didn't have to come with her... that touched me for some reason.  I hope he's not dead.  I liked him.  Still mad he's gone from Arrow - he was one of my favorite characters - they humanized him so well - I has a sad now, lol.

Edited February 12, 2016 by phoenics

[ottoDbusdriver]

Who was the man in the iron mask that was tapping against the glass in Zoom's prison?

 

Earth 2's version of Tony Stark (I know, I know, different comic universe, but still -- there's nothing that says it couldn't be a DCU version of Tony Stark.  Just saying).  Or maybe Ray Palmer.

Edited February 12, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[GHScorpiosRule]

Earth 2's version of Tony Stark.  Or maybe Ray Palmer.

 

Unless they have permission to use Marvel characters in a DC show, then maybe it's Ray?

[netlyon2]

Is there really any need to get so vicious? It's only a TV show!

 

Seriously, though, women get the short end of the stick in almost every script. It does seem a little fair to dwell on Panabaker's difficulties turning Caitlin Snow into a simulacrum of a human being given what she has to work with. I'm not seeing  Patton or van Santen doing so much better most of the time.

  

That's where we differ, then, because I think that the other actors in general--and actresses in particular--are much stronger than DP. Since the show is so challenged when it comes to fleshing out their female characters, it particularly shows when other actresses are able to elevate the material. Unfortunately, DP's performance actually lowers the writing, which is really frustrating since Caitlyn may be the least-thankless female role on the show. Sure, she's a cipher, and that's on the writers; however, the tics and line deliveries that make her an irritating cipher are on the actress.

Comparing anything to this season's Arrow flashbacks is harsh, I guess, but I stand by my statement!

I do agree with whoever that said that E2 Barry seems to be out of E2 Iris' league. I too would love to see how they got together.

  

I'm kind of intrigued by E2 Barry and look forward to seeing more of him next week. This is a Barry who grew up without the childhood trauma of his mother's death and his father's incarceration; therefore, this is a Barry who did not have Joe as a surrogate father. I think he's got a stronger spine than his dorkiness suggests; after all, the animosity with Joe appears to be a two-way street. They could easily have written things where Barry is constantly trying to win Joe over, but they chose to go with E2 Barry actively disliking him to the point that E2 Iris was surprised by E1 Barry's positive attitude. Interesting. I suspect he may be something of a jerk himself, and may have tasered E1 Barry if the situations had been reversed.

I also thought GG did an amazing job as well with playing Barry getting totally distracted by Iris and falling right into E1Barry's life - the convo with his mom, finding out Joe doesn't like him, him slowly but surely weakening and eventually kissing E2Iris back and returning her declaration of love as though he was tired of fighting his re-emerging feelings... just stellar.

[snip]

I cannot wait for the next episode.

You know, to me GG is a great example of a good actor offering a sympathetic performance even as his character does shitty things. He managed to make me feel sorry for Barry while I hated how Barry was behaving. I still feel emotionally connected to Barry and hope for him to become a better person (and superhero). That said, I am not at all pleased that we're going to have another instance of him having a romantic interaction that E1 Iris does not share (see also, Season 1 kiss before turning back time). Sure it sets up angst and manpain for Barry (which are the show's bread and butter), but it's pretty unfair to Iris since he (and some segments of fandom) will now have these emotional demands and expectations based on an experience that she did not have.

All that said, I'm looking forward to next week's episode, too!

[Ruby25]

  

That said, I am not at all pleased that we're going to have another instance of him having a romantic interaction that E1 Iris does not share (see also, Season 1 kiss before turning back time). Sure it sets up angst and manpain for Barry (which are the show's bread and butter), but it's pretty unfair to Iris since he (and some segments of fandom) will now have these emotional demands and expectations based on an experience that she did not have.

 

Actually, because of this whole thing it's now gotten to the point where Barry needs to reference it as some kind of running joke or something. You're totally right about this, which is why I feel 100% certain that Iris HAS to realize her own feelings before the end of the season. I'd be shocked if the two of them haven't at least declared mutual love for each other by the finale. This episode made me more sure than ever that it's coming.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Ruby25

[driedfruit]

Oh!  Forgot Deadshot!  I miss him and really loved his portrayal here.  His nerves when trying to load his gun and Iris' firm yet kind comment that he didn't have to come with her... that touched me for some reason.  I hope he's not dead.  I liked him.  Still mad he's gone from Arrow - he was one of my favorite characters - they humanized him so well - I has a sad now, lol.

 

I love this scene. For one Iris and Deadshot worked as a pair and I wanted to see more. But aside from that, the lighting, Iris quiet grief in the aftermath of losing her father was something we never saw on Earth 1 with Eddie or her mom. It felt like a gift.

 

One thing that turns me off from the show is how it's so heavily centered on the bros with the female characters often feeling extraneous. CCPD and SL are the main settings, Barry/Joe and Cisco/Henry/Barry the main pairs. But on Earth 2 we had Iris running the show at CCPD and as Barry's main partner, the one anchoring him to the plot. It was a great change, so great I don't want to go back to Earth 1.

Edited February 12, 2016 by driedfruit

[catrice2]

Actually, because of this whole thing it's now gotten to the point where Barry needs to reference it as some kind of running joke or something. You're totally right about this, which is why I feel 100% certain that Iris HAS to realize her own feelings before the end of the season. I'd be shocked if the two of them haven't at least declared mutual love for each other by the finale. This episode made me more sure than ever that it's coming.

Except that didn't they say that a new character is coming on as a potential love interest for Iris?  That just means more angst and "will they or won't they" silliness.  Barry will be encouraging to Iris about moving on, and Iris will keep encouraging Barry to purse Patty.

[Ruby25]

Except that didn't they say that a new character is coming on as a potential love interest for Iris?  That just means more angst and "will they or won't they" silliness.  Barry will be encouraging to Iris about moving on, and Iris will keep encouraging Barry to purse Patty.

Actually...if you read some interviews from the producers about that, I think that character might actually be being used as a tool to awaken Iris's feelings for Barry in the end. He's not a long-term thing, he's only going to be there for like 4-5 episodes max (the actor already said so). It'll be something like, she's ready to start dating again only to realize she doesn't want to be with this guy, who she really wants is Barry, etc. I think that's probably how it will go.

[Ruby25]

I love this scene. For one Iris and Deadshot worked as a pair and I wanted to see more. But aside from that, the lighting, Iris quiet grief in the aftermath of losing her father was something we never saw on Earth 1 with Eddie or her mom. It felt like a gift.

 

One thing that turns me off from the show is how it's so heavily centered on the bros with the female characters often feeling extraneous. CCPD and SL are the main settings, Barry/Joe and Cisco/Henry/Barry the main pairs. But on Earth 2 we had Iris running the show at CCPD and as Barry's main partner, the one anchoring him to the plot. It was a great change, so great I don't want to go back to Earth 1.

Yeah, totally. If the nerdy E2 Barry turns out to be a hit next week (as I think he will be), I would totally take an E2 spinoff starring the WestAllens, lol. Or maybe a series of webisodes? We could get a whole backstory about how E2 Barry and Iris got together, how she got saddled with Lawton as a partner, all kinds of stuff.

 

Except Joe and Cisco would be dead. But we could always get flashbacks! And maybe Wells could still be there? I've been wondering how they're planning to keep him around once again next season- maybe they could flash over to E2 more often? I have a feeling the E2 characters will be back in the future anyway, because of these episodes being so popular. It might be kinda cool, there's all kinds of possibilities there.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Ruby25

[catrice2]

Actually...if you read some interviews from the producers about that, I think that character might actually be being used as a tool to awaken Iris's feelings for Barry in the end. He's not a long-term thing, he's only going to be there for like 4-5 episodes max (the actor already said so). It'll be something like, she's ready to start dating again only to realize she doesn't want to be with this guy, who she really wants is Barry, etc. I think that's probably how it will go.

Well that is 4 to 5 episodes too long for this mess.  How many are left in the season?  Since they always end in some dramatic cliff hanger, I wouldn't doubt that they "find each other" just in time for one of them to be in peril.  I'm more concerned about Joe being killed. 

[Ruby25]

Well that is 4 to 5 episodes too long for this mess.  How many are left in the season?  Since they always end in some dramatic cliff hanger, I wouldn't doubt that they "find each other" just in time for one of them to be in peril.  I'm more concerned about Joe being killed. 

I think they'll have at least 3 more episodes after he leaves, so if she's realized it by then that's plenty of time for them to at least declare their love- but you're right, it'll probably be right before a moment of peril or something. I'm not worried about it though, because Andrew Kreisberg himself said that things between Barry/Iris are going to change from now on- what else could he mean, right? I think it's pretty obvious. I think they'll be together for real in Season 3.

 

And I wouldn't worry about Joe either, because I don't think there's any way they're getting rid of Jesse L. Martin. Like, zero chance of that happening, imo.

[catrice2]

I"m sorry they have got to work on Barry's sex appeal.  He has come across as a little boy with every woman, Linda, Patty and Iris.  I don't want to see them together unless it is portrayed as a man with a woman...not a boy with a woman...whether it is Iris or anyone else.  Why can't Cisco take the glasses that are on the same wave length or whatever of the twin that Zoom killed.  Why would Zoom leave with Barry and not make sure the rest of them are dead? 

[Trini]

On re-watch, it's clear that in either universe, Iris is always the most reasonable West. Her figuring out Barry was an impostor would have complicated things; but it still would have been nice.
 
And speaking of Wests, clearly Wally only showed up because they were contractually obligated to include him. I look forward to your one other scene next week, Wally!
 

... And Holy Cow - when he took off the glasses after Cisco and Iris left for KF's lair - shades of Superman in that scene totally. That made me REALLY excited. Even though he's so not Clark Kent, lol. But it was just such a cool nod.

 

I think any resemblance to Clark Kent was intentional on Grant's part; he's been pretty open about Superman being his favorite comic book character.

[GHScorpiosRule]

OMGEE! It just hit me...we've seen practically all the Flashes on this show! Except for one. How soon before Bart shows up?

 

What?

 

It's late and I'm punchy.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Flash Visits Doppelgangland
Time for a bunch of characters to meet their Earth-2 counterparts!

[kieyra]

Cisco and his Crazy-Eyes-channeling doppelgänger remain the best. That is all

[festivus]

First episode I've liked in a long time. GG is the best male cryer on tv. Cisco continues to be the MVP of this show and I continue to love "aint got time for this shit" Harry.

[Enero]

First episode I've liked in a long time. GG is the best male cryer on tv.

I think Jensen Ackles got him beat on this one. :) But GG IMHO is a close second.

[festivus]

Jensen is good no doubt. But Grant makes me want to cry too. This is his superpower.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Jensen is good no doubt. But Grant makes me want to cry too. This is his superpower.

 

 

Totally agree! And enough with making me tear up when Barry cries. I now want, no I DEMAND that Gustin be allowed to sing an entire song! 

 

Just because.

[bettername2come]

GG has the pretty tears. Jensen has the One Perfect Tear. They're completely different specialties.

 

I refuse to choose.

Edited February 13, 2016 by bettername2come

[Ruby25]

I think the second best cryer on the show is actually Candice. Every time she's had a crying scene this season she's really nailed it too, and even that scene with Joe 2's death felt sadder because of her reaction. The first time they get a crying scene together is going to be extremely tough to watch, lol.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ruby25

[SevenStars]

I think the second best cryer on the show is actually Candice. Every time she's had a crying scene this season she's really nailed it too, and even that scene with Joe 2's death felt sadder because her reaction. The first time they get a crying scene together is going to be extremely tough to watch, lol.

That makes me want to see them get together and have a break-up scene, lol. I love emotional break-up.

[phoenics]

I think the second best cryer on the show is actually Candice. Every time she's had a crying scene this season she's really nailed it too, and even that scene with Joe 2's death felt sadder because her reaction. The first time they get a crying scene together is going to be extremely tough to watch, lol.

 

The way she screamed "Nurse - " with the panic in her voice just did me in.  It made my stomach churn and dip and flutter around... and the blood rushed to my face...  I had the same reaction when Charlotte screamed "No!!" on the Sex and the City movie when Big tried to get to a sobbing Carrie (held by Charlotte) right after he left her at the altar.  I remember tears sprung (literally SPRUNG) from my eyes and sprayed everywhere when that happened.  I had a similar reaction to CP's "Nurse!" on this ep of the flash.

That makes me want to see them get together and have a break-up scene, lol. I love emotional break-up.

 

Oh crap - why did you put that in my head... that would be so emotionally draining, lol.

[Ruby25]

That makes me want to see them get together and have a break-up scene, lol. I love emotional break-up.

Yeah, I guess that would do it, but frankly, after delaying them getting together so long I'd prefer it if when they finally got together it was just a permanent thing, like in the comics. They can always separate them later on in other ways, like Iris getting lost in the another universe or thought for dead or something. That stuff happened in the comics too (I know it doesn't have to be exactly like the comics, but that to me is a much more appealing option than the on/off, annoying triangle drama, and these two are supposed to be solid anyway- they never broke up in the comics, believe it or not. Any separation came from outside factors).

[TobinAlbers]

I"m sorry they have got to work on Barry's sex appeal.  He has come across as a little boy with every woman, Linda, Patty and Iris.

I know chem is in the eye of the beholder, but I always thought Barry was great with Felicity and that there was one sweet moment in her season 1 crossover when they were saying goodbye on the train and for a moment Barry shifted from golly gosh sweet puppy boyfriend to a more intense wistful but manly man when he kissed Felicity good-bye. For a brief moment I saw a very sexy man. Then Grant shifted back into boyish charm but honestly it showed that he can amp it up when needed. I think GG is playing it less sexy man and more boy partly because even thought they're on different shows Oliver Queen/The Arrow is the 'adult' of this universe with Barry/The Flash is the little bro and so he acts accordingly. He's only going to reach full manhood when he gets true love adult feelings, i.e. he gets together with Iris.

Now that's an alternate Earth pairing that would've been interesting to see and that I hope they try in next season's Earth hop episode (you know we'll get one) Barry with Felicity.

[Trini]

In the Pretty Crier contest, Honorable Mention for Wentworth Miller.  :)

 

---

Back to the episode: I can't believe they gave us another masked character to guess about. It's got to be someone we've seen already.

Do we know if Zoom can time travel? I hope not, because then past or future versions of people are in the running -- gah.

[Trini]

From Candice's instagram; for those who want a closer look at her detective outfit.

[phoenics]

Wow GG is really tall.

[maczero]

Boo hoo that she risks her life "every day" working for the police (I'm not trying to downplay how dangerous it is to be a police officer but I also find it a bit much when tv shows act like most police are being shot at every time they leave the station).

To be fair, in this world Iris not only has to deal with gun toting criminals but also ones with super powers.  It appears that metahuman crime is so bad that civilians carry metahuman detectors.  Not to mention, the city seems to be on alert for Zoom's activities.  I'd say Iris's job is considerably more dangerous than real world police work.

 

I like that after Barry knocked over Reverb he asked Cisco "That didn't hurt you, did it?" and Cisco's like "No. Why would it?"

I did too.  I'm guessing Barry's Sci-Fi geekiness thought Cisco and Reverb might share a psychic connection.

[Trini]

On the other hand, Cisco did clutch his chest when Zoom put his hand through Reverb. 

[zannej]

I think Cisco was remembering how it felt in his vibed memory when Eobard killed him. I did like that Barry was concerned for Cisco though.

I took Joe's disapproval of Barry to be from not really knowing Barry all that well and thinking he wasn't good enough for his daughter. He probably wanted a man who would protect her the way he would instead of someone that she was having to support financially. I've seen that happen. I have a friend who is with a horrible girlfriend. He supported her and her kid from her first marriage for years, but when he lost his job because the company decided to move out-of-state, she had to get a job to get enough income to pay the bills. Her father would not STFU about how horrible my friend was for not supporting her (ignoring the fact that he'd supported her ass and was looking for a job). In his eyes, my friend should have somehow magically found a job so his little princess wouldn't have to work. On the bright side, he's since changed his mind and now appreciates my friend and is embarrassed by his daughter.

 

The idea that the job for CCPD is more dangerous on Earth2 is also a good one. I think that added to Joe's frustration.

 

Is the Jensen guy on Supernatural or something (I don't watch that show so I'm not sure)?

[bettername2come]

Is the Jensen guy on Supernatural or something (I don't watch that show so I'm not sure)?

 

Yes, he is.

http://giphy.com/gifs/fIGb9hsyBr5lu/html5

Edited February 15, 2016 by bettername2come

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Once again, I feel like this episode proved that the show really should have just deviated from canon with Iris's profession and simply made her a cop on Earth 1 as well. They just know how to integrate cops into the action better, and it was so great having Iris play such an active and assertive role.

 

Maybe they should figure out a way to have her go in that direction on our Earth too. They already established that it was what she wanted to do from the beginning.

 

But then we wouldn't get the introduction & portrayals of such great characters and storylines like Patty Spivot!  [/the heaviest of sarcasm]

[CletusMusashi]

I'm not sure why Earth 2 needs a phone ap to detect metahumans.

Aren't the leather pants a good enough hint?

[zannej]

LOL! Yeah, leather pants don't seem so common on Earth2 except when worn by villains.

 

I'd love to see side by side photo comparisons of Earth2 to Earth1 and see what is different. I also think that eventually it would be cool if E1 STARLabs got fixed up to look like the one on E2 (at least on the outside). It looked pretty neat. If Barry wants something to do, and he can do construction, he can start fixing it up. :P

[CletusMusashi]

Holy shit. That just got me thinking... what is it that looks so different? Answer: The tinting!

All Cisco had to do to adjust his glasses to the frequency of E2 was add some gold spray paint.

[zannej]

LOL. I think some of the architecture was different-- and they had that train system and the vehicles and clothes were different.

[KaleyFirefly]

My favorite episode of The Flash so far! I love Earth 2. 

 

Can Iris be a cop in Earth 1 also? She was way more interesting than as a reporter. 

 

I guess Ronnie is doomed no matter what universe he's in. 

 

Evil Cisco ("Reverb") was so great! I wish he could be a recurring character, but that hope was dashed. But he was so different from Cisco, even his voice was different! And I think the actor had a lot of fun playing that part. 

 

Joe (Jesse L. Martin) was on Broadway and in the movie version of "Rent." He has a wonderful singing voice. Check out some of his singing:

 

I have been waiting for them to somehow come up with a plot that would involve him singing! Grant Gustin can sing too.

 

I liked Killer Frost. Caitlin has, unfortunately, become a boring character. I hope Killer Frost will stick around for a bit. 

 

Why are they keeping Jay around? Is his storyline going to pay off anytime soon?

[Katsullivan]

On 4/15/2017 at 10:08 PM, doram said:

LOL! I just re-watched the 2-part episode and decided to check out the forums and I'm blinking in disbelief that no one made a Single White Female joke until now! 

OMG! 

I will never get over how completely Barry Single-White-Femaled himself on Earth-2. He just goes home with Iris and forgets completely what he came for. The mission, Jesse, everything. It took the metas showing up at Jitterbug for him to remember that none of this belongs to him. Jo(seph) lies dying and he's screaming about how he needs to be there for Iris because she's his family when Iris's husband, Barry-2 is right there. 

The more I think about it, the more I realise that we have no idea at what point Barry was going to stop this charade of his. Did he plan to keep Barry-2 locked up in Star Labs forever? Was he ever going to go back to Earth-1? 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Katsullivan