S06.E06: Season 6, Episode 6

[MissLucas]

I don't think we're supposed to take Carson as standard - even the other servants are rolling their eyes at him. I also hope they have some sort of betting pool going on about the amount of time it'll take until Mrs Hughes puts that walking stick of his to good use.

Edited October 26, 2015 by MissLucas

[rudystx01]

I guess Ms Hughes is much to nice to make Mr. Carson a cup of fly paper coffee.

[Ide]

I love Thomas with all of his faults, he was Born That Way and all of his behavior stems from frustration and anger . He is a smart man with feelings and a lot to offer. If just turns to evil sometimes.

Henry Talbot looks plastic and wears too much eye makeup. I'm not buying it.

 

Thomas: very well said

 

Talbot: totally agree with that plus he doesn't have a personality

[NorthstarATL]

I'm liking the parallels this season between those who are moving on with the times and are likely to be successful (Cora, Edith, Mrs. Patmore) and those who are mired in the past, and are likely to be more lost as things progress (Thomas, Carson, Violet). I DO see what Andorra is seeing this episode with Tom and Mary, and how they together combine both the past and future and will likely prove successful.

 There were things in my childhood home that were just "there", and I would not be able to give a history to anyone willing to take a tour of a two-bedroom ranch, so I don't mind the Crawleys' lack of knowledge. The trick, if they should ever get to it, is to partition the Abbey, and have tours through one part, and an off-limits ection where they actually do their living.

  Thomas is a sad story, but he did bring much of it on himself. I daresay he's be a miserable person even if he were straight, but the times did make his situation more difficult than it might have been otherwise. (Gay men managed, however. Nature finds a way.) HE more than what's-his-name, Mrs. Patmore's nephew, should have gone into the hotel business. He'd have been much happier and freer.

  Mrs. Hughes-Carson has to be wondering what the heck she got herself into! As I've said previously, I would not be against her poisoning him, and then joining Mrs. Patmore in running the boarding house! I also like the idea of Mrs. Patmore and Mr. Mason finding a bit of happiness together!  And Daisy can just shut it.

[hafo]

Again Tom is seemingly playing cupid, but he also shows the parallel between him and Talbot. Everything he says in Talbot's favour is a point in his own!

 

Right?

"I don't recognize my own dear sister Mary. Could this be love?" Can't this show respect that I have my Brary goggles on? Don't they know I'm going to take lines like that the wrong way?

I don't like the sales job Tom is doing for Henry. On top of Henry mentioning racers' wives and getting involved and falling in love Mary now has Tom on the sidelines pushing her towards a relationship. I don't know why he's playing cupid so aggressively. It's really awkward, especially since he seems to be completely ignoring Mary's obvious problems with the relationship.

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

he was Born That Way and all of his behavior stems from frustration and anger . He is a smart man with feelings and a lot to offer. If just turns to evil sometimes.

What if everyone who had to struggle in life decided to facilitate an innocent person going to jail? stalked someone? tried to get someone fired? 

 

Every horrible person has it in their head that their behavior is reasonable--doesn't make it true.

 

I really enjoyed this episode. I like the drama fomenting between Mrs. Pattmore and Daisy. I like that a blow up is coming between Carson and Mrs. Hughes. I love how Robert and the family, save for Mary, realize that their lives are about to radically change. Cora wants to move beyond the traditional role of Countess and the cracks in that marriage are starting to show. 

 

It's as if Fellowes really doesn't want Edith to be happy and is going to leave it to the last two episodes or the Christmas special. In Edith I'm endowing all my June Forsythe ambitions and Phryne Fisher spunk.  

 

Why doesn't anyone who lives in the Abbey know the origins of the name or the history of the house? I wonder if Robert knows the answer to any of the visitors questions.

Edited October 27, 2015 by ThomasAAnderson

[Lady Grump]

Every horrible person has it in their head that their behavior is reasonable. Doesn't make it true.

 

But, he hasn't been ONLY terrible.

 

I guess folks who haven't had to "live on the fringes" don't have any touchstone of experience to relate, but gotta admit, it's starting to make me terribly sad at how far we, as a human race, still have to go in terms of compassion. I mean, COME ON, people are AWFUL to him too! It's not one sided! Sorry, just had to vent.

[Isazouzi]

But, he hasn't been ONLY terrible.

 

I guess folks who haven't had to "live on the fringes" don't have any touchstone of experience to relate, but gotta admit, it's starting to make me terribly sad at how far we, as a human race, still have to go in terms of compassion. I mean, COME ON, people are AWFUL to him too! It's not one sided! Sorry, just had to vent.

Yes, and being compassionate doesn't mean that we excuse and condone every horrible thing Thomas has done.

[Llywela]

Yes, and being compassionate doesn't mean that we excuse and condone every horrible thing Thomas has done.

Aye, I can hate some of his behaviour at the same time as feeling for him hugely. He really is his own worst enemy, and I find that very real, that inner conflict between on the one hand longing for love and acceptance, while on the other hand actively pushing it away when offered, constantly sabotaging his own prospects, whether consciously or unconsciously. So much of his behaviour is knee-jerk reflex, his prickly, sometimes actively spiteful reactions so automatic he can't seem to help himself - yet we do catch glimpses of the better man he could be, if he allowed himself, if his circumstances were different, if the world were different, if his habits and instincts weren't so deeply ingrained. He isn't admirable, but he feels very real. And I do worry for him at the moment. He seems to be spiralling.

[Lady Grump]

Yes, and being compassionate doesn't mean that we excuse and condone every horrible thing Thomas has done.

 

fair enough. I guess I just see Carson as the MOST terrible on this show, and he doesn't seem to evoke the same vitriol.

 

I shouldn't care so much, because it's only a soap opera...lol. I'm just a Barrow fangirl, and I am worried about my Thomas! :-)

[Gladrags]

So many people needed a whack with Mr. Carson's walking stick in this episode: Daisy, Mr. Carson, Mary, Violet ... And what's the motivation behind Larry's fiancee's overtures toward Isobel? That was just weird.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

fair enough. I guess I just see Carson as the MOST terrible on this show, and he doesn't seem to evoke the same vitriol.

I shouldn't care so much, because it's only a soap opera...lol. I'm just a Barrow fangirl, and I am worried about my Thomas! :-)

For me the difference is that while Carson is often judgmental and grumpy, he usually quite passive whereas Thomas very deliberately tries to make other people miserable.

When Carson is an ass (as he is with Mrs. Hughes about cooking perfect meals), it's unintentional due to his cluelessness. Thomas, on the other hand, is quite intentional when targetting people and scheming to get them in trouble (everything from outing Gwen at lunch to trying to get people fired).

[Hecate7]

No.

 

@Hecate7 I am aware that it happened, gays pretending to be straight, gays being in some sort of relationship. What I am saying is that the majority of them (hack I would say all of them) lived in the closet - except for close friend and family who may have guessed or were told- and by all historical accounts from very few were truly happy living the deception.

I just don't see Thomas marrying a woman to live in pretense and go behind her back to be with a man, and I also don't see him, anymore, willing to work for any lover- like you said that would be putting too much power in the hands of one person, and I think Thomas likes being in control- which is why I think he always schemed alot (it was the only thing he had some control over), as we've seen this season with his job future out of his hands. it has put him out of balance and have raised- imo- his biggest fears: lack of control of his life, being alone, being unloved.

 

There might be women out there who would be happy to enable Thomas in that way. Baxter would, if there weren't a romance budding between her and Mosely. Denker probably would, or O'Brien, especially if it meant being able to leave service and retire. The real question in front of Thomas is, what career can he pursue? His best bet would be to capitalize on his military service and go to work for the hospital as some kind of intern, and become a doctor of some sort. He has the intelligence.

[Lady Grump]

When Carson is an ass (as he is with Mrs. Hughes about cooking perfect meals), it's unintentional due to his cluelessness.

 

Egh, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Carson is just as intentional as Barrow -- if not more so. He is intentionally snobby, and treats people like crap. If anything, I'd say Barrow's meanness comes from the frustration of "being an outsider". Carson is in insider. He's the boss, and hence, far from "clueless." But, that's just my viewpoint.

[Avaleigh]

I thought Tom seemed like he was interested in Mary without entirely realizing it. There is definitely a casual intimacy between the two of them that seems like it could be expanded upon. Since Tom has been 'in' with the family has he ever referred to Edith as 'my lady' the way that he did with Mary? His eyes seem to follow her. I agree too that it was interesting that he was waiting up for her and wanted to know how it went.

 

Daisy's attitude sucks. 

 

I loved Violet's line about how the previous Earl collected horses and women. 

 

It wasn't that surprising to me that the family only knew vague details about the house. There's a line in JF's novel Snobs where a character who marries an Earl thinks that she might be able to occupy her time by learning about the history of the house and she's discouraged from doing it because in their world it somehow seems middle class to know too much.

 

I enjoyed Violet's meltdown. 

 

The casual sniping between Mary and Edith is still ever present. In this episode it was kicked off by Edith, as usual, when she responded to Mary's simple of question of whether or not she'd mind if Mary and Tom go to London overnight. Edith tells Mary she can do without her being there for as long as Mary is willing to be away. Mary rolled her eyes and decided to leave and this is behavior we've seen from both of them as early as the first season. I appreciate the consistency and I find their feud to be fascinating. 

[Snarkette]

I'm waiting for Mrs Hughes to take him to Piccadilly Circus and to push him under a passing vehicle.

[DianeDobbler]

 

 

In Edith I'm endowing all my June Forsythe ambitions and Phryne Fisher spunk.

!

June Forsyte - Ack!

 

It's not so much that I loved June, but how I hated Irene. It's some consolation that Galsworthy had to go on endless pages when Forsyte saga was republished, trying to temper the readers' sympathy for Soames and detestation of Irene. Irene can go jump off a bridge.

 

I do think Fellowes has saved Edith from a June Forsyte fate - fingers crossed, anyway.

[DianeDobbler]

I hope Thomas finds a partner and is happy. The show is set when it's set. However, plenty of gay people managed to partner up while other people looked the other way. Everything from Boston marriages to a couple of old bachelors pooling resources to make ends meet. While there were laws against homosexuality, people were people, and plenty of people were willing to leave other people alone, as long as the lip service was paid to the proprieties. A couple of gay people could be partnered as long as they observed a socially acceptable facade. It doesn't mean other people were fooled.

[Badger]

Regarding Thomas, he wasn't mad because Alfred was going to be a valet over him.  Thomas was Robert's valet (even if only temporarily) which meant he was senior valet.  What he was mad about was Alfred becoming a valet without having to work for it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I hope Thomas finds a partner and is happy. The show is set when it's set. However, plenty of gay people managed to partner up while other people looked the other way. Everything from Boston marriages to a couple of old bachelors pooling resources to make ends meet. While there were laws against homosexuality, people were people, and plenty of people were willing to leave other people alone, as long as the lip service was paid to the proprieties. A couple of gay people could be partnered as long as they observed a socially acceptable facade. It doesn't mean other people were fooled.

I thought when the Crawleys said that Bertie's boss was an older bachelor who liked painting boys and had a marriage lined up for later that it was probably one of those "everyone knows he's gay" situations.

[Kostgard]

When Carson was looking for his walking stick, I was hoping that Mrs. Hughes would confess to taking it because she planned on shoving it up his ass. Damn, Carson. I know he's snooty and kinda awful sometimes, but he always liked and respected Mrs. Hughes and she could always tell him what's what. Now he just treats her like the little woman who is supposed to serve her husband. I hope she kicks his ass soon.

Does William's dad have a well on his farm that Daisy can fall into? Man, she's the worst. She really is trying to pick up where Sarah Bunting left off and it makes me want to punch her.

Poor Thomas. I agree that he's often the architect of his own misery. When he started whining about not getting any respect, I was all "Dude. They all know you scheme to hurt people and you once got caught stealing red-handed. It's amazing you have a job at all." But I get it. I get that life has taught him to always be on defense/offense and he doesn't quite know how to turn it off and accept kindness (Baxter keeps trying to show him kindness and he won't accept it). He does long for connection and he has the potential to be a good man. He just keeps getting in his own way. But I can understand why - it must be awful that you can't even teach a guy how to read without everyone wondering if you are corrupting him.

I do like that Mary defended Thomas. She once had him use his powers for good, so she knows that he can be a handy guy to have around if you have some dirty work that needs to be done and you give him proper direction.

I'm tired of the pregnancy drama. Just have your little murder baby and move on.

I am digging Edith's beau. He can get shit done and he's got no time for Mary throwing shade at his would-be girlfriend. I just hope he sticks around once he knows about Marigold.

I also liked Robert and philosopher boy. One of his best scenes in a while.

Finally - shut up, Daisy.

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

June Forsyte - Ack!

Just her ambitions! June opened an art gallery and displayed beautiful modern works. I so want that life for Edith.

 

What is the story with Larry's fiancee

 

It's okay to love Thomas--I want Mrs. Pattmore to adopt me like she has Daisy.

 

 

I do like that Mary defended Thomas. She once had him use his powers for good, so she knows that he can be a handy guy to have around if you have some dirty work that needs to be done and you give him proper direction.

I can think of no better protector for a young lord wandering his vast lands alone.

Edited October 27, 2015 by ThomasAAnderson

[Sisygambis]

I really liked this episode.  Everything to do with the house tour was funny, I always love Mary and Tom together and seeing Edith finally happy is grand.

 

I've been rewatching Seasons 1 and 2 in the last few days, and the scenes of Thomas and the children that have popped up in the last few episodes had me thinking about the relationship we see between Carson and Lady Mary in the early seasons.  He is like a surrogate father to her, and I'm kind of thinking they may go in the same direction?  That Mary keeps Thomas on because she sees value in that relationship? 

 

Carson is an ass.  There is really no other way around it. Even Robert is not so awful to his wife.

[Avaleigh]

I enjoyed Tom and Mary's night out and I liked her line about not keeping her diary of her activities in her head. I also liked the way she immediately clarified that she isn't a war widow. Mary really sparkled in that scene. 

 

Carson's line about the guillotine reminded me of Sybil telling Tom about how Violet "hears the rattle of the guillotine" anytime the subject of reform comes up. Carson has the same mentality as his employers. 

 

I got a kick out of Violet and Isobel discussing Pride and Prejudice. I like how they've developed this friendship over the course of the series. Remember what a chilly start they got off to from day one? 

Poor Thomas. I agree that he's often the architect of his own misery. When he started whining about not getting any respect, I was all "Dude. They all know you scheme to hurt people and you once got caught stealing red-handed. It's amazing you have a job at all." But I get it. I get that life has taught him to always be on defense/offense and he doesn't quite know how to turn it off and accept kindness (Baxter keeps trying to show him kindness and he won't accept it). He does long for connection and he has the potential to be a good man. He just keeps getting in his own way. But I can understand why - it must be awful that you can't even teach a guy how to read without everyone wondering if you are corrupting him.

I do like that Mary defended Thomas. She once had him use his powers for good, so she knows that he can be a handy guy to have around if you have some dirty work that needs to be done and you give him proper direction.

 

My take is similar to yours on Thomas only I think I'm less forgiving of the way he's treated people in the series overall. I think of how he treated Gwen in this season and can't help but feel that after all this time and all of these learning experiences he can't find it in himself to treat other people the way that he'd like to be treated. Thomas was "nice" to Jimmy because he was attracted to him. He's decided that he's taken a liking to Andy even though Andy hasn't done anything to encourage a friendship. Meanwhile people who are unfailingly nice to him like Baxter and Anna--IMO it's almost like he has contempt for them and it irritates me, to say nothing of his treatment of Bates over the years. 

 

Thomas is lucky in many ways. I wonder how Mary would feel about him if she were to learn that he brought Pamuk to her room? 

 

I do like that Thomas is good with the kids. Too bad he can't be a part time manny in addition to fulfilling some footman like duties. If anything I feel like Thomas should have the option of being an underbutler/footman combo meaning that Andy would have to go. I can see them justifying it by saying that Thomas has seniority. 

 

I wonder if Carson is right in his opinion that Mary would never replace Anna and would just start doing her own hair and everything. I don't know.

 

Edited to get the names right. Thanks, Llywela!

Edited October 27, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I'm tired of the pregnancy drama. Just have your little murder baby and move on.

.

Bwaahahahaha YES ! Yes to all of it and this made me burst out laughing, thanks !

[Llywela]

He's decided that he's taken a liking to Alfred even though Alfred hasn't done anything to encourage a friendship. Meanwhile people who are unfailingly nice to him like Baxter and Anna--IMO it's almost like he has contempt for them and it irritates me to say nothing of his treatment of Bates over the years.

 

I do like that Thomas is good with the kids. Too bad he can't be a part time manny in addition to fulfilling some footman like duties. If anything I feel like Thomas should have the option of being an underbutler/footman combo meaning that Alfred would have to go. I can see them justifying it by saying that Thomas has seniority.

Alfred is already long gone - he went to learn to be a chef at a swanky London hotel. The current footman is Andy. ;-)

[MissLucas]

One thing I really liked about this episode was how much Michelle Dockery channeled Maggie Smith in that last scene where she told the rest of the family that they are all weaklings - she gave a great impression of how the Dowager must have come across in her prime.

[Dianaofthehunt]

This may be my favorite dialog exchange of the entire series, delivered in the deliciously breeziest of tones

Open house visitor (pointing to a group portrait):

“Tell us about these people,”

Lady Edith: “Oh! Well, they were all rather marvelous, and…sort of…living that life.”.

 

LOVE !

[DianeDobbler]

 

June Forsyte - Ack!

 

 

Just her ambitions! June opened an art gallery and displayed beautiful modern works. I so want that life for Edith.

 

Oh - I am a huge sympathizer of June's. I just meant that she got the short end all the way through that book, most of all from the author. Fine, her fiance' carries on with someone else's wife, but then her own father ends up preferring the wife as well, and being more sympathetic to her. It was for no reason and it was TOO MUCH.  I am so glad Fellowes isn't doling that out to Edith - for awhile I thought that might be her fate.

 

I, too, adore Edith's beau. I really think it goes to the reality that Laura Carmichael appears to easily establish chemistry with whatever male (and most of her co-workers, really) crosses her path, and when chemistry happens, the guy of course seems more appealing.

 

I'm not quite sure if the meh-ness of Mary's beaus is because they're unappealing, although none have the leading man charisma of Daniel Stephens. However, when Lord Gillingham interacted with Mabel, he became more watchable, so it really is a lot about chemistry.

 

Have pretty much always loved Thomas. Doesn't mean I excuse or condone the bad things he's done/did. Everybody on Downton has done stuff I deplore.

Edited October 27, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[foreverevolving]

Do we know anything about Thomas childhood? I can't remember anything except that he may have known Ms. Baxter as a teenager (which can explain why she treats him the way she does, if she bore witness to him being abused or neglected or anything of sorts)

[Kostgard]

I don't think we know much about Thomas's childhood, other than he gets his love of clocks from his dad. I get the feeling he's been on his own for quite some time, so I suspect he got the boot after his family figured out he was gay or was treated badly for being gay so he took off at a relatively young age (and that may explain why Baxter has such sympathy for him). 

[Lady Grump]

I don't know if this is allowed to say, it may be off topic, but I am LOVING the Forsyte Saga comparisons! And so THANKFUL to learn that I am not the only one who was less-than-luke-warm to Iren-EEEE! I mean, I like the IDEA of Iren-EEEE, but could not STAND how everyone always swooned over her. I never understood it -- just like I don't understand why men swoon over Mary. Both women were (are) perfectly lovely looking, and yes, a bit spunky (I love my spunky-punky gals) but come on, they were no Sophia Lorens!

[Ruby25]

I'm getting a stronger and stronger feeling with every episode that Fellowes is leading up to a switcheroo and Tom and Mary will end up together after all. I was never sure in past seasons, but they've had SO many scenes together lately and like someone said, he's playing Cupid so aggressively that I feel like there's going to be a last minute twist. Kind of like how Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes finally got together in last year's finale.

[Helena Dax]

BTW.. is it just me or did George seemed much older than he is supposed to be?

 

Also I wouldn't be surprised if from all the characters Thomas will end up alone, romantically wise.. the show is still set in the 1920's.. it be 40 more years before the UK will remove the death sentence of anyone who is gay, and about 80 more years before gay marriage will be legalized. Any thing else for him will not be historically accurate.

Homosexuality stopped being  punished by death in 1861, although it was still illegal for some decades, of course. 

 

Carson's being an ass, I agree,  but I don't understand why  Mrs Hugues  doesn't tell him  to get  lost. Even if she  thinks that  it's her  duty  to please her husband, she's never been a doormat. 

 

Are they really bound to lose Downton? I mean, there are still families like the Crowleys living in that kind of  houses, aren't there?

 

Daisy's always had a mean streak. It comes out from time to time.

 

Loved the  tour around the  house, it was hilarious. I also liked Cora's reaction to Baxter's news about the letter: a vacant smile and a "good night, Baxter". She doesn't give a fuck, lol.  Neither  do I. 

 

I like Mary, but I  don't  want her to be horrible about Marigold. Tbh, both sisters have made "mistakes", so there's no point in some "you, slutty you"  argument between them. Otoh, I don't see the point in taking sides in their feud. While it's true that Edith has tried to mend fences a couple of times, the dislike  is mutual. And sometimes, it never ends. Look at Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine. 

[vesperholly]

The casual sniping between Mary and Edith is still ever present. In this episode it was kicked off by Edith, as usual, when she responded to Mary's simple of question of whether or not she'd mind if Mary and Tom go to London overnight. Edith tells Mary she can do without her being there for as long as Mary is willing to be away. Mary rolled her eyes and decided to leave and this is behavior we've seen from both of them as early as the first season. I appreciate the consistency and I find their feud to be fascinating. 

 

As usual we disagree. Mary's question to Edith was super condescending and sarcastic: "Edith, you can manage for a day without us, can't you?". Edith is a 28-year-old woman who is in and out of London all the time, and like Mary actually gave two shits if Edith could "manage" or not. Though I'm glad Edith gave snark back instead of pouting.

 

I did like Cora saying "Golly!" just like Mary does.

[Starchild]

Gotta agree with vesperholly. Edith is not the one who usually starts things between the sisters.

[Hecate7]

Egh, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Carson is just as intentional as Barrow -- if not more so. He is intentionally snobby, and treats people like crap. If anything, I'd say Barrow's meanness comes from the frustration of "being an outsider". Carson is in insider. He's the boss, and hence, far from "clueless." But, that's just my viewpoint.

 

Carson isn't clueless at work, but he's very clueless at home. Marriage in those days, however, WAS a form of service for women. They were expected to cook to please their husbands, not themselves, and to be the maid, the cook, and the housekeeper, in addition to keeping themselves as attractive and romantically appealing to their husbands as possible. There was no notion of real equality in marriage. Women were not allowed to own any property once married, until 1870. They didn't have the vote in Britain until 1928. Working class women didn't question the rights of their husbands to lord it over them at home, and Carson is doing so in a very conventional, affectionate way for the time. What he fails to realize is that this just isn't at all romantic or fun for Mrs. Hughes, and that there hasn't been much of a honeymoon.

[Hecate7]

I thought when the Crawleys said that Bertie's boss was an older bachelor who liked painting boys and had a marriage lined up for later that it was probably one of those "everyone knows he's gay" situations.

 

One thing this show has done really well, is show the incredible double standard for rich vs. poor. For example, Edith has an illegitimate child, but her family rally round to help her keep it a secret. She leaves the country and comes back, lives free and clear and even manages to get her child back without losing her place in life. Meanwhile her downstairs counterpart nearly died from the same situation. She was seduced and abandoned, fired from her job, had to turn to prostitution, give up her child, and very nearly died of poverty--would have, if not for the intervention of Isobel, Violet, and the baby's grandmother. Most girls in her position didn't have that sort of luck.

 

Mary has a guy die in her bed, but it's all hushed up and her reputation survives. Anna is nowhere near a guy who drops dead but she goes to prison.

 

Thomas contrasted with Bertie's brother is another good example. Mrs. Hughes contrasted with Cora, is also a good example. Marriage is limiting for her, but she gets tea brought and gets to interact with her husband on a purely social level. It's pretty easy to see why no one is eager for downward mobility.

[RedWolf]

Julian Fellowes why do you make Mary's suitors act and/or sound like five year olds. First Gillingham now Talbot. "Cars are my friends" (OK I am paraphrasing but still) is a line you would say on Sesame street or Mister Rogers NOT on Downton Abbey. A five year old would say this NOT a grown man to a widowed mother of a four year old. This is not how you convince the audience that Talbot is end game. No wonder you are finishing DA this series if those are the lines you come up with.

P.S. I just had to get that off my chest. Julian Fellowes is a better writer than me and I bow before his genius on most of the lines on DA but this one just took the cake on stupidity and dorkiness.

 

I loved the scenes where the Ladies bluffed their way through the open house tours. I thought it was very realistic and quite funny.

[Andorra]

I agree that the "The car is your enemy, but it's my friend" line was the worst since "I'm sure Matthew was a nice chap, but he's dead and I'm alive"

[saki]

As usual we disagree. Mary's question to Edith was super condescending and sarcastic: "Edith, you can manage for a day without us, can't you?". Edith is a 28-year-old woman who is in and out of London all the time, and like Mary actually gave two shits if Edith could "manage" or not. Though I'm glad Edith gave snark back instead of pouting.

 

I thought the same - I also thought Mary was attempting to be all "you're not invited" about it, which was massively undercut by Tom inviting her along.  Which he almost always does - happened in the last episode too, that Mary invited Tom somewhere and Tom invited Edith.  (Which is reason #23423 why I don't see the Brary, he doesn't come across as especially keen to spend time with just Mary, he's always inviting Edith or Talbot.)

 

On Mary/Talbot - the car stuff isn't working for me.  Mary has never previously seemed worried about cars - she travels in them all the time, she even travels along the same road that Matthew was killed on.  It feels like a totally artificial obstacle.

 

I didn't care for Mary at the dinner - "I don't keep my diary in my head" - like she has any engagements that aren't eating dinner with her parents, sniping at her sister and visiting the pig farm.  I also find ludicrous the idea that Evelyn Napier, having spent at most 20 hours in Mary's company over 10 years ago, has never married because not one of the other attractive women in London has ever tempted him.

 

I really enjoyed the tour-guiding scenes - all three ladies were hilarious - more of that please!  And also Robert and the little philosopher was brilliant - it did feel a bit Lord Emsworth but not in a bad way.

Edited October 28, 2015 by saki

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Mary's question to Edith was super condescending and sarcastic: "Edith, you can manage for a day without us, can't you?". Edith is a 28-year-old woman who is in and out of London all the time, and like Mary actually gave two shits if Edith could "manage" or not. Though I'm glad Edith gave snark back instead of pouting.

And this was right after Mary invited Tom to come to London with her and pointedly did not invite Edith, so I don't blame Edith for being snippy with her.

 

ETA: Ha, saki posted basically the same thing while I wrote my post and then opened another browser to look something else up and then got sucked into the internet.

Edited October 28, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Isazouzi]

 and Carson is doing so in a very conventional, affectionate way for the time. What he fails to realize is that this just isn't at all romantic or fun for Mrs. Hughes, and that there hasn't been much of a honeymoon.

Yes, I agree very much with this. In context, Carson isn't doing anything wrong, on the contrary. He's being quite nice and helpful about it by refering Mrs Hughes to Mrs Patmore. We might see him as obtuse, but in reality he's being quite understanding for the time. My problem is how he wants the staff to wait on him even in his own house, having the maids make the bed and stuff. They're not HIS staff.

[kpw801]

I thought the same - I also thought Mary was attempting to be all "you're not invited" about it, which was massively undercut by Tom inviting her along.  Which he almost always does - happened in the last episode too, that Mary invited Tom somewhere and Tom invited Edith.  (Which is reason #23423 why I don't see the Brary, he doesn't come across as especially keen to spend time with just Mary, he's always inviting Edith or Talbot.)

 

On Mary/Talbot - the car stuff isn't working for me.  Mary has never previously seemed worried about cars - she travels in them all the time, she even travels along the same road that Matthew was killed on.  It feels like a totally artificial obstacle.

 

I didn't care for Mary at the dinner - "I don't keep my diary in my head" - like she has any engagements that aren't eating dinner with her parents, sniping at her sister and visiting the pig farm.  I also find ludicrous the idea that Evelyn Napier, having spent at most 20 hours in Mary's company over 10 years ago, has never married because not one of the other attractive women in London has ever tempted him.

 

I really enjoyed the tour-guiding scenes - all three ladies were hilarious - more of that please!  And also Robert and the little philosopher was brilliant - it did feel a bit Lord Emsworth but not in a bad way.

I didn't remember Tom inviting Edith along.  I wish for someone would say something to Mary once and for all about her incredibly unnecessary rudeness to her sister.  In all the 12 years this story is supposed to have covered we have only seen it addressed once - when the DC told her something like it is in poor taste to weep too much as well as to be unable to ever show any compassion.  Even then, Mary just rolled her eyes.  I love the way Edith has allowed all of her tragedy to forge her into someone with self confidence (she had to have it no one ever believed in her).  I don't think Bertie will abandon her when he finds out about Marigold.  He is a very practical man and very nice.  After all, Matthew didn't abandon Mary when he found out about Parmuk.  Maybe JF will write Edith's future that way too.

Edited October 28, 2015 by kpw801

[ZoloftBlob]

On Mary/Talbot - the car stuff isn't working for me.  Mary has never previously seemed worried about cars - she travels in them all the time, she even travels along the same road that Matthew was killed on.  It feels like a totally artificial obstacle.

 

Agreed. Mary hasn't foresworn cars, she was even impressed by Henry's "snappy chariot". The car obstacle is completely artificial and Henry so far seems like a fairly cheap cut out of a character. He's good looking, and he likes cars and Mary. There's actually nothing to separate him from Tony and Charles other than the car racing. Are we supposed to care about him? Because he 's kinda boring and seems much more into Tom and I really don't think that was the chemistry JF was looking for.

[RedWolf]

 

On Mary/Talbot - the car stuff isn't working for me.  Mary has never previously seemed worried about cars - she travels in them all the time, she even travels along the same road that Matthew was killed on.  It feels like a totally artificial obstacle.

Actually I think it's very in line with her character. Mary is a pragmatist who thinks that a car is to get from point a to point b. She needs the car to get to the train station and around London town unless she is going to saddle up Diamond every time she needs to go out. I could see why (after Matthew died in a car crash) she would be uninterested and fearful of car racing which is ten times more dangerous (with no seatbelt? and a helmet that doesn't really protect anything) then driving around town. But that is just my opinion. 

[Badger]

We also know Thomas's sister was a friend of Baxter's.

 

Regarding Bertie, I don't think he has a brother.  Lord Hexham is a distant cousin.  The way he described Peter Hexham, it made him sound like Sebastian Venable in "Suddenly Last Summer."

[Starchild]

I wish for someone would say something to Mary once and for all about her incredibly unnecessary rudeness to her sister.

I think Bertie's leading up to it.

[Crs97]

If one of my sisters tried to ruin my life and our entire family by writing a letter to the Turkish embassy about my most traumatic event, I am probably going to be rude to her regardless of whether things eventually worked out for me. Especially if said sister justified herself by calling me a slut and then started sleeping with a married man. Should Mary stop? Yes, and I find those comments tedious and boring. But if I were Mary and sister's boyfriend decided to set me straight, I might be willing to share our whole history. Edith is not an innocent victim in their relationship.

[ZoloftBlob]

But if I were Mary and sister's boyfriend decided to set me straight, I might be willing to share our whole history. Edith is not an innocent victim in their relationship.

 

But Bertie is. So is Marigold.

 

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Edith is the engineer of her own trainwreck, but Mary has had her opportunities to screw Edith over and taken them (ruining the first Strallan proposal) to where they are fairly even. Mary telling Bertie about the love affair because she's put out that he considers her rude would really put Mary back into the lead for biggest bitch.