The Storybrooke Daily Mirror: OUaT in the Media, Cons and Other Real Life Encounters

[Camera One]

Bored?  Us?  :D

The POV is very confusing.  The second chapter is written from Henry's perspective, but in the third person.  "Henry rolled down the window... the whole day stretched in front of him... by this time next week, Sir Morgan would be his old self, and Henry and Violet would be closer than ever."  There's something really awkward about thinking about himself in the third person.

There are also a lot of unnecessary lines and details which add no interest to the story.  This is from the first chapter: "After tying back her long dark hair with the elastic she kept on her nightstand, she flung her feet over the side of the bed and crossed to the laptop on her desk.  She clicked refresh on the website she'd been monitoring for the past five days and watched as it loaded."  She could have written, "Violet walked to her laptop and opened the window with the website she'd been monitoring for the past five days".  Who cares about the elastic in her hair?  Watching webpages as they load?  Is that to reference the slow 1980s internet?

Henry seems resentful that Emma and Regina are treating him like a kid, yet the mindset of Violet and Henry in this book skew 10-11 years old.  They seriously think Violet's father finding his old journal would immediately reverse his depression?  

Edited December 1, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

We have to be very bored to be critiquing this, LOL. I think we're all just waiting for the three week break to be over.

I don't know about y'all, but I'm having an epic fit of procrastination and avoiding absolutely everything else I should be doing, which includes writing, housework, and practicing music for a concert, where I'll be sitting in with a semi-pro chamber chorale for Messiah, and I'm not really ready for my first rehearsal with them while suffering a massive bout of imposter syndrome and worrying about whether I should even be doing this.

So, yeah, critiquing something where I know I know the score and can feel superior is just what I need.

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

It would be far more interesting to highlight the contrast in their personalities via showing them doing things. If Emma is funny, she needs to tell a joke or something. If Regina is strict, we should see that through her reinforcing some rule set for Henry. Show, don't tell.

Yeah, they could show how regimented everything is in Regina's house, mention the stark white decor and Henry's worry about dripping jam from his toast on the stark white countertop, have Regina mention the time and tell him he's running late and give him the list of rules about what he should do on the field trip. Then he meets up with Emma and Killian, maybe has to shove some books or other stuff out of the way in the back seat, they're playfully bickering over that noise she calls music while he thinks 19th century classical music is extremely avant garde, and they tell Henry he can pretend he doesn't know them on the trip since they know that having parents around is uncool, but he can tell how excited Emma is about it, and he realizes she never would have had a parent chaperoning school trips for her.

[KingOfHearts]

The sad thing is, "funny" is hardly a fitting one-word description for Emma. She lost her sense of humor some time in 4B.

Quote

The POV is very confusing.  The second chapter is written from Henry's perspective, but in the third person.  "Henry rolled down the window... the whole day stretched in front of him... by this time next week, Sir Morgan would be his old self, and Henry and Violet would be closer than ever."  There's something really awkward about thinking about himself in the third person.

The awkward writing style would make more sense if it were Henry or Violet speaking first person. That way, when it sounds like it's written by a 13-year-old, it works within the narrative. The third person sounds like the writer is inserting themselves into their story's own universe, as many fanfic writers wish they could do.

Edited December 1, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Unless the crack speculation about them using the 2017 setting and saying that's before he leaves town as a reset opportunity, and when the curse is undone they go back to Henry being a teenager in Storybrooke, with it all undone like it never happened.

Hey.  That wasn't crack speculation.  I was totally serious about that. 

This is just like that time I wrote a fan fic and someone was like 'hey great crackfic.  We need more crackfic."  And I was like "What's crackfic?"

And that the one OUAT fanfic I wrote was a thinly veiled excuse to explore the depths of Hook's feelings over the way he has been maligned and misrepresented by McDonald's playground doesn't prove anything.

And when I'm right about it being 2017 in Storybrooke, just remember

Also, I can't participate in this conversation because once you compare David to Mayor McCheese, you lose that right. 

[Camera One]

45 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

The sad thing is, "funny" is hardly a fitting one-word description for Emma. She sadly lost her sense of humor some time in 4B.

I'm curious how many episodes this author actually watched, for research.  I guess the various Henry/Violet episodes would be a must, especially "I'll Be Your Mirror".

 

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm really not getting the business case for these books -- 

I actually think the Red one may make a little more sense, since she was so tertiary to the story that there are a lot of gaps to be filled in. I don't think you'd have to watch the show to understand or appreciate the book. It's just a twist on the Red Riding Hood story. But any story about Henry and Storybrooke in which Captain Hook is his stepfather who's chaperoning the school trip and Henry makes mental comparisons between his two moms while his girlfriend thinks about her past in Camelot and her father being the Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court would pretty much require being a fan of the show to get into in the first place, which limits the readership. I can just imagine anyone not familiar with the show trying to read those first two chapters. Even with all the exposition, it's a big "HUH?"

I agree.  The first two books (which I didn't read) were both prequels about Red and Regina, and both of them could be picked up by anyone as an alternate retelling of classic fairy tale characters, Little Red Riding Hood and Snow White's Evil Stepmother.  This book about Henry and Violet would be meaningless to anyone except fans of the show.  If they could hardly be enticed to watch Season 7, why would anyone be interested in slogging through a book.

50 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't know about y'all, but I'm having an epic fit of procrastination and avoiding absolutely everything else I should be doing

Yep, me too.  I borrowed Shrek 4 so I might put that into the DVD player to distract me while I work through this mountain of work.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Camera One

[cappoe]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

By then, will anyone care anymore about Henry's teen years? We'll have seen the whole 7th season and know how things go with him and Ella. Unless the crack speculation about them using the 2017 setting and saying that's before he leaves town as a reset opportunity, and when the curse is undone they go back to Henry being a teenager in Storybrooke, with it all undone like it never happened.

Shoot by then will anyone care about adult Henry and the cast of S7? I mean majority do not care now but by the end of S7 they could be looking at a 0.3/0.2.

I'm laughing over that speculation because it literally explains how this season literally does not happen. It's a Dallas season, completely and utterly pointless. I wonder if all the backlash they've gotten and there's a lot will tell them lets just show that S7 is one of the many possible endings for Henry when he grows up. 

The majority of viewers are already pretending this season is not happening, so why not just make it official?

[Shanna Marie]

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

The POV is very confusing.  The second chapter is written from Henry's perspective, but in the third person.  "Henry rolled down the window... the whole day stretched in front of him... by this time next week, Sir Morgan would be his old self, and Henry and Violet would be closer than ever."  There's something really awkward about thinking about himself in the third person.

Third-person limited -- in which the story is written in third person but from the perspective of the character -- is actually the most common form of narration in modern novels. It's essentially the reader stowing away in the character's head, seeing through his eyes, and eavesdropping on his thoughts (as compared to first-person narration, in which the character is consciously telling a story, or third-person omniscient, in which there's a narrator who isn't a character who knows all and can dip slightly into everyone's thoughts). But this is so badly done that it comes across as awkward. There are too many POV breaks, where the character is made to think things for the reader's convenience that the character wouldn't actually think in that moment, like Henry, who is totally familiar with Regina and Emma, thinking about how Regina has short dark hair and wears pantsuits while Emma has long blond hair and wears jeans and leather. Or like Violet waking up and thinking about her long, dark hair. No one does that. She might wake up to find her hair in her face, but she's not going to be thinking "my hair is long and dark."

Speaking of waking up ... that's an amateur way to get into a story, and the opening of this book is really weird. It starts well before the actual action. Presumably, things won't start happening until they get to New York, so why bother with all this waking up in the morning and getting sack lunches? But it also puts the part where they realize there's a problem, come up with a plan for dealing with it, and establish their story goal offstage, so that what we get is the characters not doing much of anything while thinking about these important story steps that we didn't get to see happen. I think I'd have started with Henry and Violet after school -- he wants to go to one of their secret makeout locations, but she's uncomfortable with that and wants to go home (this conversation can happen as they go through Storybrooke and we establish the setting as a fairy tale enclave in modern America). They compromise on doing their homework at her house, where he notices her dad acting odd, and Henry realizes that she's worried about her father. When her father's out of the room, he asks about it, and she tells him about how he's been acting lately. Henry then gets a text from Emma, asking him if he can pick up their dinner order at Granny's and bring it by the sheriff's office. While he's at Granny's, he runs into Archie and chats about Sir Morgan. Archie mentions that maybe he's homesick, that it must be strange to be back in his home world, except his home world has totally changed. Henry joins Emma and Hook for a dinner of grilled cheese and onion rings at the sheriff's office, where some fairy tale character is in the jail cell, with some banter/bickering between that person and Emma and Hook. We can see how casual and laid back life is around Emma and Killian, with them making wisecracks, sitting with their feet propped up on the desk, etc. Then Henry goes home to Regina's place, where Regina is just coming home from a meeting, wearing her pantsuit, and she grills Henry about whether he's done his homework and chores. Henry starts researching Sir Morgan, looking up the Twain book on not!Wikipedia. Maybe he and Violet talk on the phone while both of them look up stuff, and they find the journal. Violet's sure that getting it back would make her father feel better, but it's in New York. Can they get away with running away to New York yet again? Can Henry con Emma into making a trip -- there's something he wants to get from Neal's place, maybe. Then at school they learn about the trip to New York (normally, a trip like that would be months in the planning, with lots of fundraising, but maybe a particular class or club has won a trip to some event in New York, so it's more sudden). Yay, their problem is solved. They can sneak away and get the journal while they're in New York. But then they learn that Emma and Killian have volunteered to chaperone, which makes things more challenging (and leaves the sheriff's department empty, but whatever). Killian used to run a pirate ship, so his radar for shady activity is pretty sensitive and there's nothing they could come up with that he hasn't done, himself, and Emma ran away often enough when she was a kid that she's pretty hard to trick, and she's an expert on finding people. Now they need a plan for evading Henry's parents, getting the journal, and getting back to the group without getting caught. And the story goes on from there. But I'd have them go to New York by sailing on a magically cloaked Jolly Roger, because, damn it, it's a fairy tale town in which everyone's in on the secret and they have a magical pirate ship, so why would you take a school bus or charter bus? Plus, that gives a reason for Killian to be on the trip instead of holding down the fort in the sheriff's office.

[Camera One]

55 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

There are too many POV breaks, where the character is made to think things for the reader's convenience that the character wouldn't actually think in that moment, like Henry, who is totally familiar with Regina and Emma, thinking about how Regina has short dark hair and wears pantsuits while Emma has long blond hair and wears jeans and leather. Or like Violet waking up and thinking about her long, dark hair. No one does that. She might wake up to find her hair in her face, but she's not going to be thinking "my hair is long and dark."

That explains it.  So in that example, the author should have written, "he and Violet would be closer than ever" instead of "Henry and Violet would be closer than ever"?

I don't read too many modern books (I usually seek out older books), but the ones I've read recently (especially Young Adult Fiction) often switch POV's every chapter.  That kind of annoys me, because I get bored waiting to get back to the other character.

58 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Speaking of waking up ... that's an amateur way to get into a story, and the opening of this book is really weird. It starts well before the actual action. Presumably, things won't start happening until they get to New York, so why bother with all this waking up in the morning and getting sack lunches? But it also puts the part where they realize there's a problem, come up with a plan for dealing with it, and establish their story goal offstage

That pinpoints the problem.  It's telling and not showing (just like the show).  Violet and Henry made up this dumb plan of theirs beforehand, and we got to hear both of them describing it in their heads.  It looks like the conflicts in the story from Violet's perspective are trying to get Sir Morgan out of his depression (with his old notebook) and getting alone time with Henry.  From Henry's perspective, he has the same goal of getting Sir Morgan out of his depression, but he also worries about what he wants to do after graduation and how Violet is going to college but he's not sure.  This problem is a lot more meaty but Henry seems to think that this NYC trip would change that, which makes no sense.  Since we hadn't met Sir Morgan before, I don't feel I care enough about him.  Even if I were a devoted Violet/Henry fan, these two chapters don't do anything to flesh them out except to say they sneak around making out with each other, which is sort of nauseating.

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So in that example, the author should have written, "he and Violet would be closer than ever" instead of "Henry and Violet would be closer than ever"?

I think we need Henry's name because it's just mentioned Sir Morgan, so "he and Violet" might have referred to either Henry or Sir Morgan. But that wouldn't have jumped out at you if the writing hadn't been so klunky. Even in third person, the narrative should have a sense of the viewpoint character's voice, and it should only give us what the character would be thinking about at that time. Plus, we should have seen the characters figuring these things out and making these decisions, not starting with long interior monologues about past events. We should be shown Violet's father's depression and how it's affecting her and her relationship with Henry. We should have seen them trying to come up with something to do about it. Not them sitting and thinking about it. This is an eerily relevant song on the radio away from being a stereotypical bad fanfic.

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

From Henry's perspective, he has the same goal of getting Sir Morgan out of his depression, but he also worries about what he wants to do after graduation and how Violet is going to college but he's not sure.  This problem is a lot more meaty but Henry seems to think that this NYC trip would change that, which makes no sense. 

Yeah, I'm not sure how this trip and solving Sir Morgan's problem is going to bring Henry and Violet closer together and solve the problem of Violet wanting to go to college and Henry wanting to go to another world so he can be a character in a storybook. Does he think that if Sir Morgan's depression is cured, Violet will be willing to ditch her family and go realm hopping with him? It kind of comes across like Henry's annoyed because his girlfriend's father's depression is a real mood killer that's getting in the way of their makeout sessions, and he's irked that she has ambitions that don't involve him, so, basically, his main problem is that his girlfriend's life doesn't totally revolve around him. Which, yeah, kind of sounds like Henry, but it's rather harsh when you put it in print like that.

And how are they struggling to get alone time? Violet has a single parent mired in depression, so probably not too involved in her life. One of Henry's moms is mayor of the town and presumably busy, while his other mom and stepdad are running the sheriff's department. They probably have more alone time than most teenagers.

[Camera One]

They give a ton of examples of their make-out plans getting interrupted so all the imaginary 15-year-old readers could relate... apparently, they're stopped by Violet's father, Regina, Emma, Granny, Mary Margaret... not only that, here's a quote: "They would be able to spend time together without every adult in Storybrooke seeking to put distance between them".   

It sounds like Violet's father has latched onto stopping Violet and Henry from spending time alone instead of dealing with his own issues.  

I find it hilarious that the author spends an extra sentence about how "everyone's favorite French teacher Mrs. Holt" couldn't chaperone the field trip so Mary Margaret had to step in.  So who's her fairy tale counterpart... isn't this a "Once Upon a Time" book?

Edited December 1, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

38 minutes ago, Camera One said:

without every adult in Storybrooke seeking to put distance between them

Maybe everyone is afraid that Mini-Bagel will follow his father's footsteps and get his teenage girlfriend pregnant. A few sex-education classes might be more helpful. It would've been hilarious to read of Hook and Charming tag-teaming to give Henry "the talk". 

[KingOfHearts]

33 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe everyone is afraid that Mini-Bagel will follow his father's footsteps and get his teenage girlfriend pregnant. A few sex-education classes might be more helpful. It would've been hilarious to read of Hook and Charming tag-teaming to give Henry "the talk". 

Goodness knows Regina shouldn't be the one to tell him about consent. 

[Shanna Marie]

25 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe everyone is afraid that Mini-Bagel will follow his father's footsteps and get his teenage girlfriend pregnant. A few sex-education classes might be more helpful. It would've been hilarious to read of Hook and Charming tag-teaming to give Henry "the talk". 

I could see why Henry's immediate family might be worried about that, and we already knew that Sir Morgan wasn't super impressed with Henry, but it's harder to imagine the entire town caring one way or another what Henry got up to. Maybe they're applying quasi-Medieval/Georgian/Victorian morality to the town? In which case, it would apply to all the kids, not just Henry and Violet, but then we've got an entirely different potential book, in which all the teens gang up to try to win the freedom to date without chaperones. Which could be a lot of fun, actually.

It seems like the issue of Violet worrying about her father's depression and the worry about what happens after high school, with Violet keen to go to college and Henry uncertain (because he wants to be a hero, and you can't major in that), would be enough conflict for their relationship. I don't see what every adult in town wanting to stop them from making out has to do with any of this, or how them curing Sir Morgan's depression with his old journal is going to end the problem of them not being able to make out. It might (or might not) stop Sir Morgan's (perfectly reasonable) objection to Henry, but it wouldn't stop Henry's family's fears about him repeating his parents' history with a teen pregnancy. Violet probably needs The Talk even more than Henry. He might have had sex ed in school, but she just came over from Camelot.

You know, the plot and character motivations for this book sound a lot like what's on the show. I wonder how much of the story came from this writer and how much was dictated by the show's powers that be. Did this writer pitch a story, and it got approval, or did they have a story idea and look for a writer to write it? That still doesn't excuse the bad execution (another thing like the show).

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

Goodness knows Regina shouldn't be the one to tell him about consent. 

Nor his aunt Zelena. 

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

Nor his aunt Zelena. 

I guess Hook technically shouldn't either, since he had a history of getting girls drunk first. (Not calling him Captain Rapist. He's just not the most ideal candidate.)

[Camera One]

This wouldn't be an issue if the author didn't make physical intimacy one of the driving motivators of these characters from the get-go.  It's such a superficial character driver.  

It's hard to get excited about the rest of the story.  So they go to New York City and visit an antique shop and then what?  What a bore.  

[cappoe]

Are you guys petty like me and turning on the TV to help AOS ratings so that they do better then OUAT because I sure am doing that.

[RolloTomasi]

Unless you are a Nielsen viewer nothing you do will have any effect on the ratings. 

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, RolloTomasi said:

Unless you are a Nielsen viewer

And even then, Netflix can swoop in and save the day. 

[Camera One]

I'm Wishing on a Star and a Wishing Well for Season 8, LOL.

[cappoe]

9 minutes ago, RolloTomasi said:

Unless you are a Nielsen viewer nothing you do will have any effect on the ratings. 

I am one, so yes it counts.

7 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And even then, Netflix can swoop in and save the day. 

I don't think Netflix is giving them another season, no way. For one this format is designed for no one.

Picture a brand new OUAT fan. Binge-watches all the seasons comes into S7 premiere and sees everything is different. New setting, new characters, new everything but 2 characters stay the same. Do you honestly think they'd give the show the time of day realizing how different it is and has no Emma and co? They'd turn it off 10 minutes into the premiere. I mean when the biggest things that are not working according to the audience in S7 includes...

• The setting
• The main couple
• Many of the characters

It's safe to say it's a complete and utter failure.

S7 is not designed for Netflix. It's not designed for anything. It's a brand new show using the OUAT name because the writers knew that if they used another name it would not attract anybody just like OUATIW and it would flop(which it's doing so they failed). OUAT name is familiar, unfortunately S7 is driving their brands name through the mud. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by cappoe

[Camera One]

If they're like most of us, yes.

TMZ is being so unethical, but they posted the salaries of kid actors, including the actress who plays Lucy.  
 

[cappoe]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

If they're like most of us, yes.

TMZ is being so unethical, but they posted the salaries of kid actors, including the actress who plays Lucy.  
 

Quote

The first run of "Once Upon A Time," which starred Ginnifer Goodwin and Jennifer Morrison went 6 seasons. If the reboot remains as popular, Alison could be a millionaire by the time she's 18.

HAHAHAH well she won't have to worry about that because the reboot is the farthest thing from popular.

Edited December 1, 2017 by cappoe

[RolloTomasi]

Quote

I am one, so yes it counts

 

Lol okay. Enjoy your Friday evening of obsessing over a tv show that isn’t even airing. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by RolloTomasi
Fixed quote

[cappoe]

2 minutes ago, RolloTomasi said:

Lol okay. Enjoy your Friday evening of obsessing over a tv show that isn’t even airing. 

AOS is airing.

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

TMZ is being so unethical, but they posted the salaries of kid actors, including the actress who plays Lucy.  

I think the numbers shed light on why whoever's running Alison Fernandez's twitter account freaked out over the blowback on the last episode.  

[cappoe]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think the numbers shed light on why whoever's running Alison Fernandez's twitter account freaked out over the blowback on the last episode.  

I agree, probably starting to realize that this isn't getting another season so her parents are starting to get nervous.

Poor dear thought this flop would last multiple years, but then again so did Adam and Eddy. That's one good thing about what's happening now, they're getting a very nice reality check.

[Kktjones]

I have to say I'm surprised at how much Allison H (Lucy) is making per episode! It makes me very curious to know how much others on the show are getting paid. I would guess the new adult actors are making at least twice that and the returning regulars maybe triple or quadruple? Also, does anyone have an idea of how much the actors get paid for conventions? I'm thinking the Creation Cons where they are there for one day and have a panel, meet & greet, autographs and photo ops. They must make quite a bit for it to be worth their while right? Maybe $50 - 75K per con? Do you think they make anything on merchandise (especially things that include their likeness like T-shirts, calendars, etc.)? Sorry, I guess I'm just nosy and curious to know how much the actors on this show are making.

[Souris]

12 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

I have to say I'm surprised at how much Allison H (Lucy) is making per episode! It makes me very curious to know how much others on the show are getting paid. I would guess the new adult actors are making at least twice that and the returning regulars maybe triple or quadruple? Also, does anyone have an idea of how much the actors get paid for conventions? I'm thinking the Creation Cons where they are there for one day and have a panel, meet & greet, autographs and photo ops. They must make quite a bit for it to be worth their while right? Maybe $50 - 75K per con? Do you think they make anything on merchandise (especially things that include their likeness like T-shirts, calendars, etc.)? Sorry, I guess I'm just nosy and curious to know how much the actors on this show are making.

This article has a lot of info about it. It mentions that leads on shows like Once make anywhere from $35,000 to $250,000+ just for their guaranteed money for a convention. They can make even more if they sell more photo ops and autographs. "At top conventions, it's not uncommon for a star to earn anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000 on top of their guarantee (more if they spend extra time signing)."

Really lucrative!

Edited December 2, 2017 by Souris

[cappoe]

S.H.I.E.L.D premiered better then OUAT for it's 2 hr episode more then OUAT has done for everything in  it's entire S7 run post Emma episode. What a shock when you still have everything that is recognizable on the show.

Edited December 2, 2017 by cappoe

[maryle]

I did a little digging to see how once is compare to Friday others show caused a lot of fans use the Friday night excuse, well here the data!
MacGyver is stable around. 8 its the same time slot as once
Hawaii 5-0 still stable at 1.0/. 9 after they got their own controversy cast changed this year.
The Chritmast special and as got 0.8 and .7 for aos and finally last man standing average was above 1.0 

 My conclusion is that Friday night does have a potential of viewers, but those viewers  just didn't choose to remain as loyal to once than before the change. The change of cast  does seem to be a greater factor in the fallen rating and to look at these data and the fact that the biggest fall happen after ep. 2! I will be interesting to see if they do go back to.5 but if they don't.....

[cappoe]

34 minutes ago, maryle said:

I did a little digging to see how once is compare to Friday others show caused a lot of fans use the Friday night excuse, well here the data!
MacGyver is stable around. 8 its the same time slot as once
Hawaii 5-0 still stable at 1.0/. 9 after they got their own controversy cast changed this year.
The Chritmast special and as got 0.8 and .7 for aos and finally last man standing average was above 1.0 

 My conclusion is that Friday night does have a potential of viewers, but those viewers  just didn't choose to remain as loyal to once than before the change. The change of cast  does seem to be a greater factor in the fallen rating and to look at these data and the fact that the biggest fall happen after ep. 2! I will be interesting to see if they do go back to.5 but if they don't.....

I think they may go back up to 0.5 however it wouldn't surprise me if it's a 0.4. That's nothing to write home about at all and still says they're getting cancelled. They haven't recovered since episode 2, and come spring time those ratings are going to get really ugly like 0.3/0.2.

Edited December 2, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

TV Grim Reaper lowered ONCE's renewal chances to 45%

Edited December 2, 2017 by Rumsy4

[cappoe]

57 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

TV Grim Reaper lowered ONCE's renewal chances to 45%

TV Line as well, say it's A Long Shot for renewal and they usually have sources that tell them. How shows are faring in the networks eyes.

Edited December 2, 2017 by cappoe

[Mabinogia]

I feel like 45% is being very optimistic. 

[Camera One]

Optimism is just what we need right now.  Next Friday is a new beginning.  All we need to do is believe.   Remember, heroes always win.  With enough HOPE and visits to the FOUNTAINS of the cities in which we live, this show will become renewed for an eighth season! 

Brought to you by the Mary Margaret Motivational Speech Consortium™

[Rumsy4]

20 minutes ago, Camera One said:

With enough HOPE and visits to the FOUNTAINS of the cities in which we live,

But I don't have any pennies! What do I do?

[Souris]

31 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

But I don't have any pennies! What do I do?

I think it's time for an "inspirational" speech on some steps in NYC!

[jhlipton]

On 11/30/2017 at 8:18 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I'm not really ready for my first rehearsal with them while suffering a massive bout of imposter syndrome and worrying about whether I should even be doing this.

I believe in you -- I even tossed a penny in the FOUNTAIN!

On 11/30/2017 at 6:19 PM, Camera One said:

It only took until p.2 for the first unintentionally hilarious line to pop up.  "There was nothing she didn't like about him", "she" being Violet and "him" being Henry.  I know they are teens in love, but seriously?  NOTHING?

On 11/30/2017 at 8:06 PM, KingOfHearts said:

The writer writes in a very generically subjective tone. "There was nothing she didn't like about him" is vague and unconvincing. Why not list the things she does like about him?

They do list them -- he's her WikiHow!  That's the sum total of what she likes about him (and his stupid hair).  Not the way he looks at her, or treats her, or how his kisses feel -- that sort of thing.

On 12/1/2017 at 11:23 AM, Shanna Marie said:

he wants to be a hero, and you can't major in that

I think you can -- it's called Journalism.

On 12/1/2017 at 1:26 PM, cappoe said:

I am one, so yes it counts.

I thought that Nielsen viewers were forbidden from saying so, so people (like me) wouldn't try to influence you into watching shows they want to save (like Kevin Saves The World, or The Brave).

Edited December 4, 2017 by jhlipton

[cappoe]

So every year Tumblr does this thing essentially called the Fandometrics which is a list of top 30 things. OUAT usually is in every category, every year. They dominate, and they're usually high up on the list.

This year however they're only in one category, TV Shows.... and they're ranked 24/30. Last year according to the data they were ranked #8. Lana isn't even on the list and she's in S7, nuff said, not even Lana fans are enjoying this season.

That is the biggest fall of all the TV shows int he top 30 and I think the reason it's even in the top 30 is cause of the back half of S6 but ever since S6 ended the fandom for this show has died and this is a clear indication of what the fandom reception to S7 is. 

https://thefandometrics.tumblr.com/

Adam and Eddy said in May that they have a massive and huge passionate fanbase that will stick around for S7. Welp...clearly they were not that passionate.

I am very impressed however that the CS fandom still continues to be more alive then the actual show. Giving fanfic, fanart, gifs and everything while the show continues to flop. It makes me very proud of our fandom.

Edited December 4, 2017 by cappoe

[RedKeep]

55 minutes ago, cappoe said:

I am very impressed however that the CS fandom still continues to be more alive then the actual show. Giving fanfic, fanart, gifs and everything while the show continues to flop. It makes me very proud of our fandom.

Yet it also didn't make the list in the Fandom Metrics thingy so I'm not sure I'm buying your point about the relevance of that whole thing. I just had a quick look and it seems those lists are dominated by material that tends to score high with younger audiences (YouTubers, lots of The CW shows) and/or anime/animated shows and movies. The actresses list seems to be full of names who didn't even make the top 30 last year and those who were among the top 10 almost all crashed massively in numbers while the guys' list is superhero movies/The CW central. And those actor/actress lists likely don't really say all that much about how popular one particular project of one particular performer is anyway since their tags are generally dominated by everything that might be somewhat related to them or at least their name. Like, I get you're once again trying to hammer the point home that the show in its current state is desperately unpopular on social media, and that may or may not be true, I'm not the one to judge, but using those Tumblr lists doesn't make a very convicing argument for me.

[cappoe]

Why don't you take a peak at last years list which is accessible on the first page if you doubt how far the show has dropped fandom wise.

And the Captain Swan fandom is more active then the actual show, just go take a look at the tags. The show tag is dead. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by cappoe

[maryle]

Well, objectively when all the data does point toward 1 direction for me it definitely make for a convincing argument and whatever how good this particular measure is don't erase the downfall of once from last year ! And, last year I saw all portion of the once fandom use it! E R cause she was number 7 and I believe? CS cause they were in the top ship of the year...

Anyway, the tendance is clear all objective data point toward the reboot being failing, the only argument can be how much it's it's failing!

Ho! Ho! There  actually a list that once 2017edition made the top 10? buzzfeed top worst storyline of the year ! Here you go !

Edited December 4, 2017 by maryle
Adding information

[Free]

6 hours ago, cappoe said:

Adam and Eddy said in May that they have a massive and huge passionate fanbase that will stick around for S7. Welp...clearly they were not that passionate.

Yeah, they were clearly delusional, the reboot has several strikes against it already before it even aired losing several main characters already.

[KingOfHearts]

Beginning in S6, the show needed to be filled with unadulterated fan service, imo. Retaining the fandom was the show's last hope. Instead, everyone, including the writers, were asleep for an entire season. Then S7 came along with promises of a reboot to engage new viewers. There were a lot of new characters in a new setting, but it didn't hit any beats that really set it apart. Even the new storylines are just rehashes of what we've seen before. "It's Cinderella... again!" screams confusion more than intrigue.

Edited December 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts
It posted before I even finished. What the flip?

[Rumsy4]

57 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Beginning in S6, the show needed to be filled with unadulterated fan service, imo.

That's what they did with two Reginas and the Rumple-Gideon arc. A&E were writing for themselves as the greatest fans of these two charatcers. 

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

That's what they did with two Reginas and the Rumple-Gideon arc. A&E were writing for themselves as the greatest fans of these two charatcers. 

Thing is - Regal Believers weren't asking for Clone Queen. They were probably still miffed about Robin's death. As for Gideon, I'm not sure what Rumpbelle shippers thought about that. They probably like the fact Gideon brought Rumple and Belle back together, but after 6x09 Belle became a glorified mannequin. 

[Souris]

Here's the Buzzfeed list maryle mentioned: https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishabassi/i-just-constantly-laugh-at-archie?utm_term=.kvzGBd3k1e#.jedGa4Aey

[Camera One]

Lots of people were tweeting that Buzzfeed list at Adam. 

But it looks like Buzzfeed just picked some random person's comment about every show on the list.  I can see Adam dismissing the comment chosen... they misspelled Gothel (Adam loves making jokes about spelling to deflect actual criticism), presumed Drizella cast the Curse, and basically listed random things from this season declaring it "too convoluted, too soon".  Too soon for what?

The Buzzfeed list also includes practically every show out there, including some highly regarded shows.  

So A&E would laugh and say they're in fine company and shrug it off.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

If you really want some quantitative metrics assessing the online presence of Once this season vs last, look at Nielsen's Social Content Ratings for its air date. Once is consistently in the daily top 5 they publish, so it's easy to compare. For example, let's compare social media interactions for the episodes airing on October 23, 2016 (Street Rats) and October 20, 2017 (The Garden of Forking Paths). These were both single episodes without any huge draw for specific fandoms (i.e. not featuring the returns of Emma or Belle, so no artificial inflation by the Captain Swan or Rumpbelle fandoms). 6x05 had 88,000 interactions. 7x03 had 57,000 interactions. No week last season was below 65,000.  

I don't think it's a big surprise that audience engagement is down given the ratings. Last year Once lost one million viewers over the course of the season. This year Once has lost one million viewers in just eight episodes. That's pretty rough. I'm not someone who's rooting for this show to fail. I don't want a bunch of people to lose their jobs, but I suspect everyone knows what's coming. They can't go on like this.