Past Seasons Talk: 7 Seasons and Counting

[CarolMK]

Watching the China/Japan episodes recently, as well as the England/Ireland/Israel ones a week or so ago , I can't believe how disrespectful the Duggars are toward other cultures, especially Jim Bob. He was on the streets in China practically demanding that somebody direct him and speak English to him...sorry Jim Bob, most people there don't know it. Between making fun of the food in every country they visited, and grilling a street performer in Scotland who admitted he didn't believe in God, I have to wonder why TLC bothered to spend the money for these people to travel. Clearly they don't want to be around anybody who doesn't think and act the way that they do. 

[Almost 3000]

I just watched the Jubilee Shalom episode and boy was Michelle the star of that production. I didn't see it the first time because I knew all the wailing would just piss me off and it did.

[Ljohnson1987]

That was the most real we've ever seen J'Chelle. I guess she does have other human emotions that she can show.

[Barb23]

I also watched the Jubilee episode today. Responding to previous posts (not sure which thread) I did notice MEchelle glancing to her left on her TH's. IIRC, One of the posters said when we look to the right, we're thinking and to the left--deceitful thoughts? Is this correct?

When they were at the church , they focused on a table of things they put together. One item was Jubilee's Birth certificate. (Sorry I don't mean to be disrespectful, I don't know what it's called when it's not a live birth.) I think it listed Vanessa, Jill & another woman who delivered her as well as Jana, Jessa, Jinger & Joy as being in attendance. First of all, I hope the girls were given the option of being there. Second, I'm sure this is the same Vanessa that Jill was training with. I forget the name of the midwifery practice. I wonder why Michelle delivered at home with them instead of going to hospital & having Dr Sarver deliver her. I would think it would be much safer in a hospital due to possible complications (hemorrhaging/chance of infection ). I know they are big with home births, but I wonder if Vanessa & her team had any experience with delivering a miscarriage/stillborn. (I know it went back&forth on what it's called-don't want to start a debate) I'm sure it is horrible having to deliver a stillborn baby, just wondering why she chose to do it at home.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I just watched the Jubilee Shalom episode and boy was Michelle the star of that production. I didn't see it the first time because I knew all the wailing would just piss me off and it did.

That entire episode is nothing but emotional blackmail. Michelle plays the suffering martyr. Every one pity Michelle.

[kalamac]

The looking to left means lying, looking to the right means remembering thing has been debunked.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/myth-busted-looking-left-or-right-doesnt-indicate-if-youre-lying-1922058/?no-ist

 

 

[GEML]

Also, I don't think there could have been a birth certificate - not an official one. Stillborns, miscarriages and fetal deaths are all very technical terms that are tied to fetal development and birth certificates and handled by the state and usually come six weeks later. I have no doubt that the Duggars fashioned themselves something, but I'm quite certain that the general consensus was that fetal demise occurred while it would have been a miscarriage (usually before 20 weeks). This is likely one reason she was able to labor and deliver at home (a decision I fully support, btw) and we should also be mindful that fetal demise can occur quite sometime before natural delivery. Given that there was an ultrasound on camera, there is no way the Duggars could have lied to the state about the number of weeks, and no doctor would ethically do so. But that doesn't mean they couldn't say things that weren't strictly true on camera, to the press or in the obituary. What we do know is that over time, the number of weeks changed. But there was no way the official birth certificate would have been they that fast. You don't walk out of hospitals with birth certificates anymore.

Edited October 20, 2014 by GEML

[Almost 3000]

That entire episode is nothing but emotional blackmail. Michelle plays the suffering martyr. Every one pity Michelle.

Thank you I didn't know exactly what bugged me but that is certainly part of it.

[Ljohnson1987]

J'Chelle definitely made the show about her. As if she was the only one in the world who has ever lost a baby.

[GEML]

I hated the way there was the implication that Jill might have had some responsibility as she was monitoring the pregnancy. The first thing they should have said to her was, "Jill, we know you did a wonderful job and what happened had nothing to do with the wonderful care and compassion you showed."

But that would require thinking that another person actually has feelings.

[Barb23]

I hated the way there was the implication that Jill might have had some responsibility as she was monitoring the pregnancy. The first thing they should have said to her was, "Jill, we know you did a wonderful job and what happened had nothing to do with the wonderful care and compassion you showed."

But that would require thinking that another person actually has feelings.

How true. I wished I would have recorded this episode (too lazy to look it up elsewhere) cuz there's one thing that always bothers me when I see it. It's when they have everyone gathered to tell them. Boob starts telling the kids what happened but then he stops & says to J'chelle something like "do you want to share/continue?" I'm sure I don't have the wording correct but it seems like he was passing the buck (no pun intended) for her to have to say they couldn't find a heart beat & the baby died so he wouldn't have to. I'm sure they were both in shock but he didn't look that torn up not to finish. I actually felt sorry for her having to sit there & have the little ones asking her questions while they all were getting to the living room. I know it's been previously said & I agree, they should have called home as they left the doctors to tell them to get together so they would be ready when they walked in. Or I would have gone in the bathroom til everyone got assembled.

[StaceyNotStacie]

I've seen bits and pieces of the episode in the past, but this was the first time I've actually taken the time to watch the Jubilee episode.  One thing that I noticed that when Jim Bob went around to all of the children after he and Michelle told them the baby had no heartbeat, he kissed the children near Grandma Mary, but did not acknowledge her, although it could have just been the camera editing. You would think that if a man had just lost one of his children, he would have gone to his mother for some sort of comfort or to comfort her since she seemed just as upset as the children.

 

Also, at the end when they showed the burial, I noticed that either Michelle or one of the older girls had a strong and pleasant sounding singing voice.  I'm surprised that none of the Duggars have attempted to put out a cd of hymns.  I'm sure that many of their fans would buy a cd of them singing their favorite hymns.

[MarysWetBar]

She serves Jimbo. (Ewwwwwwwwww)

She could do a cross over appearance on Dirty Jobs.

[QueBueno]

Watching the Jubilee episode right now. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, it's certainly not meant that way, just that I don't know. When a baby is stillborn/miscarried, do the parents usually have a full funeral? I've never heard of one before.

[GEML]

If the baby is stillborn and not miscarried, many states do issue a death certificate at some point and services and burials are at the discretion of the family. But again, still born means that it has passed the time when it is reasonable, with heroic measures, but reasonable, to hope that the baby could have a fighting chance to make it had they been born at that time. Those laws vary from state to state just what the number of weeks are, but I don't think it is less than 20 anywhere. Only at the very end were we suddenly hearing that Michelle was 20 weeks along, although there was other footage and a sonogram that call that seriously into question.

[floridamom]

It gives me the willies to see Anna "moving in on Josh" the way she does for a kiss. Her fish puckered lips, the way she bends her head back and half closes her eyes. Oh, I"m nauseous already thinking about it....Someone needs to tell her that the "screen kissing" like Jim Bob isn't necessary and we don't want to see it. Pepto Bismol anyone?

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be insensitive here to any woman who has lost a child,, as we don't know how we would react initially, but the footage of Michelle's sonogram not showing a heartbeat at the doctor's office, IMO, she sounded like a teenager who got caught unmarried and pregnant. She, in no way, sounded like a woman in her mid 40s. I also think she did a wonderful dramatic performance. She just came across as fake to me. To my surprise, Jim Bob seemed more real and that was his natural reaction...I just don't like her because of how she takes advantage of the older children she already has.

Why were they playing with the number of weeks that Michelle was along with Jubilee? Wasn't that determined at her initial appointment with her physician in the first place?

[Barb23]

Florida mom- I agree this episode was one of her best dramatic performances. The worst part is that for next episodes we have to hear how the family is dealing with the loss. I, too, don't want to sound not caring, but as we all have said this episode should have never been done. They could have just written out something that as a family they are grieving in private & thank the viewers for their prayers & thoughts.

[Absolom]

I think Michelle kept adding weeks to the pregnancy because she thought there would be more drama if it was a stillbirth and they could try to justify the mega-church funeral for a stillbirth much more than for a miscarriage.  A stillbirth is required to be buried or cremated while a miscarriage is not.

[SmallTownMom]

I cant watch the Jubilee episode.  I just can't get over the fact that they carried on so much about their loss, then buried that child in an ammunition box?!!?!?!?!?  People spring for caskets for their pets.  Guess since he couldn't buy used and save the difference, this was good enough. 

 

There is a flea market near us with a vendor that sells surplus army goods.  Every time I see those ammo boxes, I think of that baby and it makes me so sad. 

 

What a bunch of attention-grabbing, phony, greedy assholes.  Hope TLC pulls the plug soon.

[GEML]

The truth is, if she lost the baby at 16-18 weeks that is an enormous amount of time in terms of fetal development than 20-22. There are enormous reasons why even with the most advanced NICU technologies, babies cannot survive outside of the mother before about 22 weeks and show little likelihood of doing so in any immediate future. The mother's body is just too important.

I think she kept adding weeks for three reasons. 1) to distance herself from the earlier miscarriage. This couldn't be a miscarriage, because she only miscarried when she was taking evil birth control pills. (Never mind Anna had had a miscarriage just two years ago because miscarriages have nothing to do with birth control.) 2) She wanted a big ceremony to highlight their pro-life agenda. And that's ok. It's their culture. But then get rid of the stupid AMMO BOX! 3) She wanted to draw similarities to the age Josie was born and thus make Josie even more of a miracle to her than she was before, when the reality is there were many weeks of vital development between the two.

[lottiedottie]

The David/Priscilla wedding was just on. GOOD GRIEF. I sure hope that guy figured out how to kiss in a way that doesn't involve swallowing poor Prissy's entire face. That episode was so cringe worthy. Gross. That poor girl.

[truthtalk2014]

The David and Priscilla wedding episode was on the other morning.  I watched a little of it, and it still drives me absolutely crazy that Michelle and Boob went on ahead to Florida to "help".  And it was stated that Jana's job was to get the rest packed and bring them to Florida.  Why the heck is that Jana's "job"?  We all know that Boob and Michelle do nothing, and we have a teenager getting all these kids ready to go?!?!?!? Then she asked them to match socks and we have a boy that should certainly know better climb up on the table with his SHOES on, and dump out a basket of socks, then a bunch of others climbed up to help.  WTH?  Dump the socks out on the floor, and let them all sort them.  Then we have Jill struggling to get them all through the airport, little kids watching smaller kids and pushing strollers.  I guess it's not going to happen with a film crew nearby, but kids get hurt or go missing all the time because another kid is supposed to be "watching" them.

 

Wow!  I just watched it too and posted the same thing in another thread about things about the Duggars that piss you off.  I totally agree!  Why did they have to go ahead?  Did they offer a reason and I missed it?  To me, there is no reason.  

[truthtalk2014]

Oh - also in the Priscilla wedding, I LOVED (at the rehearsal) how two of Anna's sisters wore really short skirts (defrauding every male in the place) and I realized for the first time that Anna has a brother named Daniel.  I thought she only had sisters.  His wife was showing shoulders and had part of her hair dyed a shade of pink!  LOVE IT! 

[truthtalk2014]

That entire episode is nothing but emotional blackmail. Michelle plays the suffering martyr. Every one pity Michelle.

I totally agree.  She is totally irresponsible as is Jim Boob.  I read somewhere- and don't quote me on this- that if you have pre-ecclampsia in your last pregnancy, you have a 60% chance of having it in the next one.  That combined with her age and the fact that she has already been pregnant 20 times is just not a good decision. 

 

The episode where she upset all the children should have never happened.  She could have kept her mouth shut a bit longer.  She didn't have to go on national TV and announce she's pregnant with number 20.  

 

And honestly, I think she was really upset- because in her screwed up mind, that is the only thing that matters- having babies.  But honestly, she could have mourned in private and not put all these children through that emotional torment. That big service was a joke.  Is she telling every woman that has a miscarriage to have this big funeral?  I truly hope it is not a trend to come.

 

I really felt for all the kids.  They should be ashamed to put them through that. 

 

EDIT to say that JB while praying said the baby was 16 weeks.  

Edited October 22, 2014 by truthtalk2014

[WTFFF]

 

I totally agree.  She is totally irresponsible as is Jim Boob.  I read somewhere- and don't quote me on this- that if you have pre-ecclampsia in your last pregnancy, you have a 60% chance of having it in the next one.  That combined with her age and the fact that she has already been pregnant 20 times is just not a good decision.

 

She had it with the first set of twins, too, and I don't know the exact number, but yes, you have more than a 50/50 chance of getting it with your next pregnancy.  My mom had it with me (I was born at 7 1/2 months, so totally different ballgame with me than Josie, thankfully) and her doctor flat-out told her that there was an excellent possibility that she would have it again, an excellent possibility that she would die before she could get medical attention, and if she got pregnant again, she would have to find a new doctor.

 

I am an only child.  Meanwhile, Michelle probably just kept getting cockier and cockier with each uncomplicated pregnancy and thought nothing could touch her because of Jesus.  Even when it finally went tits-up, as it had to eventually, she still had the nerve to get pregnant again.  I hope to god she's hit menopause by now.

[Barb23]

If they insisted on using the ammo box, they could have at least painted it white or pink & maybe have had someone tastefully paint flowers or a butterfly on it.

[GEML]

I just want to put the pre-eclampsia discussion into perspective. I had it with my first in my twenties and having it is not a reason to not consider subsequent pregnancies. I never had it again. 50/50 odds are actually good ones. You will need a high risk doctor and take extra steps, but that IN AND OF ITSELF is not a reason to not have more children.

[truthtalk2014]

Very funny moment on "Duggar sick day".  The woman and her two children come over for lunch (didn't mind that they might contract strep throat) and brings lunch.  She brought a pretty nice lunch - BBQ meats, buns, beans, corn a salad from her Dad's garden (I'm sure that was the first time the Duggars have ever experienced that treat) and banana pudding that she made.  

 

When Boob was going through the line, he is beside MEchelle and obviously really impressed and says "THIS IS GREAT!"  and MEchelle looks at him and pokes out her bottom lip as if she is insulted and hurt.  Sorry MEchelle, your dinners and lunches suck and your family is so happy to have a real meal.

 

The only thing I've seen MEchelle prepare was for a few of the howlers- maybe 6 kids- was boxed macaroni and cheese, boxed stuffing and frozen broccoli.  No wonder they were all so excited. 

[CarolMK]

I saw that. So they invited this woman and her kids for lunch and she ends up bringing all the food? uh, okay. Also, I saw another filler episode from about 3 years ago when the Hartanos were staying there....the kids from Indonesia. I have wondered if either Jonathan or Jennifer Hartano would ever get involved with Jana or John David. Despite being from Indonesia, they follow the same religion as the Duggars and they speak perfect English..and both also enjoyed giving the little kids lots of attention. I think both of them may have now graduated from college though, so perhaps we won't see them again.

[StaceyNotStacie]

I watched the sick day episode this morning.  That lunch that Michelle served the kids was horrible.  Mac and cheese and broccoli wasn't too bad, but there should have been some sort of protein in there instead of the stuffing.  

 

I also just finished watching the episode where Josie visited the doctor.  I couldn't believe that they showed her crying on the table receiving her shots.  Just another thing that this family has shown that probably didn't need to be shown.  

[joanofarch4]

I recall Michelle admitting that it wasn't a balanced lunch, but that it was more important that the kids have enthusiasm for what she was trying to teach them to "cook" -- hence allowing them to choose their favorites, with a veggie thrown in.

 

As for kids crying on TV while they get their immunizations, go through traumatic adoption procedures, etc., do we really want to go there?  It's nothing new to this network, and the Duggars certainly don't have the market cornered on such "family entertainment."

[joanofarch4]

I hated the way there was the implication that Jill might have had some responsibility as she was monitoring the pregnancy. The first thing they should have said to her was, "Jill, we know you did a wonderful job and what happened had nothing to do with the wonderful care and compassion you showed."

But that would require thinking that another person actually has feelings.

Not that I'd want Jill to feel guilty, but I certainly wondered if her "counseling" had anything to do with it; she's certainly not qualified to give prenatal advice (or at least wasn't at that point).  Don't they have an actual OBGYN for that?  The way Michelle was swallowing handfuls of OTC vitamins and huffing away on that workout equipment looked more like she was training for a marathon than a baby.  Aren't you supposed to rest and take it easy, at least some of the time?  Of course, her advanced maternal age didn't help matters, but...

[superguard9]

Watching Michelle's birthday makeover and although they kept trying to hide it they were clothes shopping at Christopher and Banks. While it's certainly not a high end boutique it's not a discount store either, despite all the conveniently placed "clearance" signs.

Kids you have to shop at Goodwill, momma is going to the mall.

(that's not a knock on goodwill, just another example of their "buy used save the difference" hypocrisy)

[andromeda331]

When a baby is stillborn/miscarried, do the parents usually have a full funeral? I've never heard of one before.

 

 

I've known two couples who had a stillborn my grandparents and one of my closest friends, neither had a funeral. They both buried the baby quietly near their other relatives but a space away in the cemetery with a headstone. For my grandmother it was too painful to even put a name on it so it just says baby and their last name. My friend did put the name they chose on theirs.  It was the hardest thing either of them had gone through, my grandmother had realized the day before the baby had died, my friend during a doctor's visit but both still had to delivery their baby.For my grandparents they never spoke about it again. It was to painful even decades later to bring it up. My friend did managed to get to a point about ten years later when she was able to speak about it.But when it happened and the days, months that followed, she couldn't talk about it. Neither ever were able to call it a stillborn it was always "lost the baby". For both it was their first child, they did go on to have more children and have a happy life but both my grandmother and my friend never stopped blaming themselves for what happened to their first child. That they moved wrong, or somehow, someway must done something or they should have known sooner something was wrong and gone to the doctor, then everything would have been fine. No amount of assurances has ever changed their minds on that. I know people grieve in different ways but the ones I know never would have a huge funeral like the Duggars had, they would have been horrified. It was painful enough without having to go through a full blown funeral.

 

Also with their miscarriage, again I know people grieve differently on that too. I've had family and friends who miscarried. My mother, my sister-in-law, and a couple friends, but I've never seen a single one of them blame birth control. They always blamed themselves. Even after all the assurances from family, friends, and the doctor. They still believe somehow they either did something wrong or somehow should have been able to prevent that. 

[wanderwoman]

The Duggars had every right to mourn the loss of a fetus. Mourning for something we love and desire is normal when it's taken away. However, the grandiose funeral, with hundreds of people and a "memorial slideshow" was nothing more or less than a political publicity stunt. It's manufactured drama over something that, while tragic and certainly sad, was an unviable pregnancy. Miscarriages happen with unrelenting regularity. The Bates experienced a loss less than a year prior to the Duggars. Did they drop everything and rush to Tennessee to support their friends? When Anna miscarried, did they film a very special episode? When the host "Caleb", was there a funeral? OF COURSE NOT! If there was no show, there wouldn't have been a funeral. I'd even wager that, had Jubilee been before Josie, it would've been handled with a private family gathering and 5 minutes of an episode. After almost losing Michelle and Josie less than a year prior, that funeral was more about the loss of Michelle's fertility than a baby. It hit Michelle hard, no doubt, but that funeral wasn't about a baby.

I also caught the episode where Michelle, once again, went out of her way to explain her modesty. It was the water skiing episode. Here's the thing: her knees were visible a couple of times during that episode. They've also released photos of cheerleader Michelle and immodest dress Michelle for the "we were sinners" retrospective. My question is: if you think your bare knees are akin to erotica, why would you authorize showing them in pictures of the past? It's the same knee. Which would be more enticing: seeing Michelle's knee at 40, in Wholesome Wear swimwear or Michelle's knee peaking out from around some pompoms?

Edited October 24, 2014 by wanderwoman

[jodo]

Watched some of the birthday clue episode today and have to say Michelle looked so young and so much better with that new hair do but it was clear she and JB did not like it and Jessa comments "it will grow back by the end of the year"....disgustingly caught in a time warp!  I did notice when her hair was straight how damaged it was with mega hair breakage.  And she was so uncomfortable walking from the car to the house because the wind was blowing it around a bit!! LOL  She is so used to a helmet head with a full can of hair spray on it!

[GEML]

There actually isn't any hard evidence that bedrest in pregnancy helps, so Michelle resting or not resting at pre-20 weeks or exercising or not exercising was completely irrelevant.  The prenatal vitamins are fine, but not strictly necessary, assuming you eat a reasonably balanced diet (which, with the Duggars, it's hard to know...)  The truth of the matter is that most miscarriages happen because the DNA is like a blueprint and at some point in the building of the house, you get to a point where the blueprints just aren't there and the building stops.  The DNA doesn't know where else to go and stops replicating.  It happens to one in four women, and in as high as one in two pregnancies when tracking with ovulation detectors.

To say Jill had any culpability is just wrong wrong wrong.

[graefin]

I watched the sick day episode this morning.  That lunch that Michelle served the kids was horrible.  Mac and cheese and broccoli wasn't too bad, but there should have been some sort of protein in there instead of the stuffing. 

This was one of the scenes that underscored to me how phony this show is, and how much they cater to criticism. Michelle clearly said they were having broccoli because "mama wants them to have something green." Later, you can hear Jackson asking something like, "Do I get broccoli too?" and getting excited when he hears the answer. If you look closely, you'll see that it's the first thing he eats off his plate--all the broccoli is gone before the other food is even touched. Now, it could be that just Jackson specifically liked broccoli that much, but I would bet that it's more likely green vegetables get rationed in that house.

[McManda]

both my grandmother and my friend never stopped blaming themselves for what happened to their first child. That they moved wrong, or somehow, someway must done something or they should have known sooner something was wrong and gone to the doctor, then everything would have been fine.

 

I've never been pregnant, but when my friend was pregnant with her daughter she tried to do everything in her power to make sure she had a healthy baby. She went beyond the normal "take care of yourself" and common sense activities - like, from very early on she avoided all cheeses and all deli meats and fish, didn't take any sort of medications (outside of her prenatal vitamins), and (before she was visibly showing) announced that she was pregnant so she could assess any and all potential risks. Her reasoning was that if anything happened and her baby was born with disabilities or if she miscarried, then she'd know it wouldn't have been her fault. I never understood her reasoning. It seems to me that even empirically knowing that it's unlikely anything you did caused a problem in your pregnancy, you're still going to live in the land of what-ifs and feel like there must have been something else that you could have done, something else you could have avoided. I imagine it's just the curse of being a parent.

 

It's sad that Michelle even tried to pass off that sort of guilt to Jill. If Jill feels that way - and maybe she did, if she was monitoring her mother's pregnancy - then I wouldn't fault her. She didn't have the distance that a caretaker should have with a patient. But she shouldn't have been used to pass off that guilt onto, even if it was only implied.

[jodo]

Can you imagine how many heads of broccoli it would take to feed a family of 22 for a meal!  Any amount of fresh fruit or vegetable for 22 people would be a lot to transport, store and prepare on a daily basis.  I guess they only get it when they are being filmed.  My friend's 2 year old daughter LOVES broccoli and asks for it at every evening meal!

[Absolom]

Not every woman feels guilt over miscarriages.  I knew the scientific facts and odds before getting pregnant the first time and knew it was like a lottery.  I didn't do anything reckless so had nothing to blame on myself.  It's normal to grieve or feel sad, but not all of us go into depression over it.  I'm not saying the women who do feel guilt are wrong, just saying not everyone takes it the same way.  It makes it much harder for me to understand Michelle's nearly histrionic display of a more elaborate funeral than most of us will ever attend and all for a miscarriage. 

[Barb23]

In the episode where they go grape picking, MEchelle stated that the kids loved them but they didn't get them often. What a shame. And I'm sure what they got was rationed.

With their millions, it's a shame they can't buy more fresh fruit & veggies. I would think at the time that episode where Jackson was loving the broccoli was done they were bringing in the bucks & could afford them.

We all have said they could have a garden (even containers) & grow things. It could even be a part of the home fooling schooling. When my son was little we planted watermelons one year. We only got a few but he thought they were the greatest, because he grew them himself from seeds. I wonder what became of the seeds the Duggar kids planted on that one episode. It was a contest between the boys & the girls. I guess the J'slaves couldn't keep up with them so they probably didn't even make it to the plant stage.

I guess they still want to come across as the frugal family. We know better.

[RazzleberryPie]

Can you imagine how many heads of broccoli it would take to feed a family of 22 for a meal!  Any amount of fresh fruit or vegetable for 22 people would be a lot to transport, store and prepare on a daily basis.  I guess they only get it when they are being filmed.  My friend's 2 year old daughter LOVES broccoli and asks for it at every evening meal!

Well they do those industrial kitchens, fridges, freezers, pantries, etc., and they have to transport everything they eat, because I don't see any onsite gardening, so I have no sympathy or pity for them in regards to healthy eating. Being able to feed everyone properly is something parents need to consider before actively attempting to bring 9000 kids into the world.

[GEML]

Not every woman feels guilt over miscarriages. I knew the scientific facts and odds before getting pregnant the first time and knew it was like a lottery. I didn't do anything reckless so had nothing to blame on myself. It's normal to grieve or feel sad, but not all of us go into depression over it. I'm not saying the women who do feel guilt are wrong, just saying not everyone takes it the same way. It makes it much harder for me to understand Michelle's nearly histrionic display of a more elaborate funeral than most of us will ever attend and all for a miscarriage.

I just want to say thank you for saying this. I'm another who had a miscarriage, and not an immediately early one. But I honestly don't feel like I lost a baby, simply that I had a pregnancy that ended too soon. We were disappointed, but out of the disappointments in our lives, this was a very small one, comparatively.

I don't begrudge the Duggars or anyone else their right to handle their situation the way they wished. But my loss also informs my politics, and I don't go around insisting that because of my personal response to my miscarriage that all women who miscarry should feel the way I do and this be pro-choice. This is something that the Duggars don't seem to understand. I think they are capable of empathy - they can put themselves in someone else's position and say what THEY would do if X happened, but like a lot of people who live in a black and white world, they have no SYMPATHY. It's impossible for them to imagine a world where people might think differently than they do. Or if people do, that way of thinking is dangerous and wrong.

[Absolom]

They have plenty of drivers in the family so if one of the older sons had to make a daily trip to a market for fresh fruit and vegetables it wouldn't be an overwhelming chore.

[WTFFF]

Well they do those industrial kitchens, fridges, freezers, pantries, etc., and they have to transport everything they eat, because I don't see any onsite gardening, so I have no sympathy or pity for them in regards to healthy eating. Being able to feed everyone properly is something parents need to consider before actively attempting to bring 9000 kids into the world.

 

Agreed.  If they can freeze 1000 Stouffers lasagnas, they can freeze some damn vegetables.  They have the space and money to not have to "ration" anything, especially not the things the kids should be eating when they're hungry.

[truthtalk2014]

I totally agree that a great homeschooling adventure would be to do a lesson on square foot gardening or making earth boxes and growing your own veggies.  It's such an awesome thing to learn and experience at any age.  And, when you taste your own organic veggies and learn how much better they are for you (than genetically modified crap) it makes it all the more exciting.

 

I can see all the kids being really excited about learning about growing their own food.  

[GEML]

Frozen vegetables can be bought in bulk and are easy to heat and serve in a microwave. Even for 19. That this is even an issue is ridiculous.

[Almost 3000]

They have plenty of drivers in the family so if one of the older sons had to make a daily trip to a market for fresh fruit and vegetables it wouldn't be an overwhelming chore.

I've often wondered why they don't have a bowl of apples or oranges sitting out for the kids to snack on. It would at most give the kids a choice during the day and at least send a subtle message to viewers that healthy snacks are available. Win, win.

[wanderwoman]

I found out I was pregnant with twins just before Jill. We had an anatomy scan yesterday and couldn't see the jinder of my future children. I asked the tech and she said she usually won't call it before 20 weeks. Made me think of Jill and Derick getting a delivery day surprise.

I'm not sure what I'm suppose to do if I don't have colored cake, sky writing, and a special episode....oh, wait, I will just have to wait and see. What a concept.