Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

[tv echo]

'Sleepy Hollow' Casts Abbie's New Boss (Exclusive)

JULY 24, 2015 3:44pm PT by Lesley Goldberg

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/sleepy-hollow-season-3-lance-811033

The network has tapped Crisis alum Lance Gross for a major recurring role in its upcoming third season, The Hollywood Reporter has learned.

 

Gross will play Daniel Reynolds, the FBI special agent in charge — aka Abbie's (Nicole Beharie) new boss.

Edited July 25, 2015 by tv echo

[Free]

I hope they actually do something unlike the last new boss.

[phoenics]

I've seen her in other things...she's adequate. Nothing particularly special IMO.  Just kind of , meh.

 

She was the worst part of A Knight's Tale.  Heath Ledger just made her look so amateurish, imo.  Maybe she's gotten better with age, but eh.  If she supplants Abbie I will literally scorch the earth.

[Watermelon]

Well Lance Gross is Black and beautiful as hell, so I'm happy to see him.

[Amethyst]

I hope they actually do something unlike the last new boss.

 

Too bad we'll never know what Reyes was capable of.  They really did nothing with her, did they?  For a few minutes, it looked like she would be Team Witness because she believed that Lori wasn't insane and that there were other forces at work, but they backed away from it.  Nothing against her or the actress, but she won't be missed.

[HalcyonDays]

Well, we know a character called Pandora has been cast, and is most likely the big bad. And knowing the mythology of Pandora's box, that once opened, it unleashed tons of evil, but at the very bottom of the box is hope, that I expect is the theme for the season.

 

Abbie and Crane fight varying forms of evil through out the season caused by Pandora, until the end of the season, it closes with the actual hope that they have done their job as Witnesses, have kept humanity safe and maybe even hope for a normal life.

[shanndee]

Thank you for that HalcyonDays. I have been so disheartened by the rumours and the casting choices that it was going to be hard work for me to tune in for the premiere. This helps.

 

Just the thought of the fun fantasy of Pandora's Box, Abbie and Crane fighting evil as a team, the possibility of quirky humour and teamwork between the 2 leads, all ending in hope...

 

Thank you for giving me some hope!

[tv echo]

Title of episode 301 is "I, Witness"...

C. Thomas Howell ‏@cthomashowell  Jul 31

Here's my week... Hello Sleepy Hollow!

https://twitter.com/cthomashowell/status/627116798702391300

Edited August 1, 2015 by tv echo

[Julia]

Wow. I think that is the Peter Weller. Who knew?

[phoenics]

Wow. I think that is the Peter Weller. Who knew?

 

Hopefully he can overcome Albert Kim, whom I still haven't forgiven.

[HalcyonDays]

Thank you for that HalcyonDays. I have been so disheartened by the rumours and the casting choices that it was going to be hard work for me to tune in for the premiere. This helps.

 

Just the thought of the fun fantasy of Pandora's Box, Abbie and Crane fighting evil as a team, the possibility of quirky humour and teamwork between the 2 leads, all ending in hope...

 

Thank you for giving me some hope!

 

You are welcome shanndee! I think we all need a little hope, considering how last season went. I am of the mindset - wait and see. Casting choices, yeah I side-eye them because my mind (our minds) come up with the worst case scenarios, especially with what happened last season. But I will give the benefit of the doubt and wait till the actual season starts to air before I dismiss them.

 

if it holds my attention - excellent. If I get the season 2 feels of resorting to too much wine to tolerate the crap, and anger and disgruntledness over everything, I am out. But I (and we) won't know until the episodes air!

 

It would be awesome if the theme for the season would be mirroring Pandora's box - with hope the ultimate conclusion to the season.

[phoenics]

Well in spite of my misgivings and fear about S3, I met someone on Friday in a class I was teaching and he watched SH in season 1, but fell off in season 2.  I actually begged him to give it another chance, lol.  So apparently I haven't given up on it yet.

 

I'm watching closely for signs of foolishness and tomfoolery though (Nikki Reed and sexy betsy ross is DEFINITELY a sign of foolishness and tomfoolery, not to mention worrisome because it seems like Fox thinks they have to bring her in for sexiness when NB and LG are right there).

 

The show runners need to have an intense talk with the marketing and PR people though - they need to be promoting NB like crazy.

[tv echo]

Question: SleepyHeads are dying for information about Sleepy Hollow Season 3. We are starving over here! —Regina

Ausiello

: Feast on this: Season 3 picks up one year later and finds Abbie, having completed her training at Quantico, returning to Sleepy Hollow as a FBI agent. BONUS SCOOP: We will also see the return of Joe Corbin (Zach Appelman), who will team up with Jenny to aid Ichs and Abbs.

 

Question: Any more new faces coming to Sleepy Hollow? —Lil

Ausiello: Yeppers. Charlene Amoia — AKA longtime MacLaren’s waitress Wendy from How I Met Your Mother — will turn up in the Oct. 1 premiere as Susan James, a woman weighed down by her secret conspiracy to reveal corruption in her office.

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Big Bang, Arrow, Bates, Sleepy, Castle, Twin Peaks, UnREAL, Gotham, Dome and More

By Michael Ausiello / August 2 2015, 8:06 AM PDT

http://tvline.com/2015/08/02/penny-leonard-big-bang-theory-season-9-wedding-married/

In addition to the departures of Orlando Jones (Irving), Katia Winter (Katrina), John Noble (Henry) and Matt Barr (Hawley), viewers have also seen the last of Headless for now.

"There won't be any Headless this year," Clifton Campbell, Sleepy's new showrunner, tells TVGuide.com. "But we have a new framework and a new set of rules for the mythology. And it all starts with the introduction of our new big bad and will take us into a very interesting device which will allow us to see a somewhat more compelling, but more personal threat to both Abbie (Nicole Beharie) and Crane (Tom Mison)."

 

To make up for the diminished cast, Sleepy is bringing back fan-favorite Joe Corbin (Zach Appelman) to help round out the team. Corbin, who was last seen in Season 2 when the Witnesses helped cure him from being a Wendigo, will return to work closely with Jenny (Lyndie Greenwood) in fighting the apocalypse and uncovering the mysteries within their own shared history.

*  *  *

"Jenny and Joe are going to track down a lot of things that are going to help Abbie and Crane, and in doing so really do a deep dive on their past and their connections to each other," Campbell says. "It allows Jenny and Joe to be more operative and on their feet in their support and help of Abbie and Crane and fills out the gang in a much more interesting, emotional way."

Mega Buzz: Sleepy Hollow Axes Headless, Brings Back Fan Favorite

by Sadie Gennis | Aug 2, 2015 7:00 PM EDT

http://www.tvguide.com/news/mega-buzz-sleepy-hollow-spoilers-headless-joe-corbin/

Edited August 3, 2015 by tv echo

[HalcyonDays]

The show runners need to have an intense talk with the marketing and PR people though - they need to be promoting NB like crazy.

 

FOX needs to be promoting the SHOW like crazy, and putting the amazing charisma and chemistry of Beharie AND Mison to good use.

 

Both of them need to promote together.

[DearEvette]

In thinking of the dribs & drabs of news coming out re: S3, the only thing that I have really hated is Sexy Betsy Ross.  It seems so out of sync with everything else we are hearing.

- I love the idea of a time jump because I can not stand the thought of Ichabod mourning Katrina (and he would have done so if they were to stay true to the character)

- I love the idea of Abbie becoming FBI feels like a logical move for her

- I love the idea of Joe Corbin coming back.  It is a tether to Abbie & Jenny's past that makes sense (also the Wendigo epsiode was the first one in S2 that felt like a S1 episode after 'This Is War')

- I am intrigued by the idea of Pandora being the Pandora and her box of ills being released into the world  (it is a smart way to do an overall arc and make it episodic)

- I like the casting of Lance Gross

- I am curious about the Crossover

- Don't care that Headless isn't on this season.  If Pandora's Box  is the big bad, then Ichabod & Abbie are dealing with the ancient Greek God pantheon, not Judeo-Christian one which is what Headless has become connected with.  If they make it to a S4 they could re-introduce him then...

- And most importantly, the showrunner so far in his language, is clear that this is Ichabod & Abbie's show.  Big contrast from Goofman who even in S1 was talking about the 'Katrina-ness of it all."

[phoenics]

Sounds promising - but I actually am worried about the loss of Headless. He was so menacing - that's truly a loss, imo. Because - um - where did he go?

[benteen]

Wow. I think that is the Peter Weller. Who knew?

 

Peter Weller has been doing a lot of directing for television over the past few years, including Sons of Anarchy, Justified, Hawaii Five-O and The Strain.

 

Very glad to hear about the return of Joe Corbin.  He was one of the better guest characters from last season and adds a good dynamic to the team.  Teaming up with Jenny to help Ichabod and Abbie is even better.

 

Definitely fine with the time jump.  We won't have to suffer Ichabod mourning for Katrina.

 

After becoming embroiled in the Crane Family Drama, I can understand putting Headless on the bench for a while.  Hopefully not too long as I don't think this show has many seasons left in it.

[Watermelon]

Psss. Who is Peter Weller?

[Happytobehere]

Is he actor Peter Weller, the original Robo Cop and from Buckaroo Bonzai?

Yes. Peter Weller the actor and PeterWeller the director are one and the same.

[Ananayel]

Peter Weller also has a Master's degree in Roman and Renaissance Art from Syracuse University, and a PhD from UCLA in Italian Renaissance Art History.

[cynic]

The crossovers episodes will be on October 29th per this EW article. Perhaps they will be Halloween related.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/04/bones-sleepy-hollow-crossover-date

[DearEvette]

Laura Spencer, who played Caroline on SH (RIP Miss Caroline), is one of the "squinterns" on Bones.  I wonder if they'll play with that somehow?

[benteen]

Here's some story information on the actual crossovers themselves.  One interesting bit is the note that "Ichabod's old nemesis is back from the dead."

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/06/fox-explains-bones-sleepy-hollow-crossover

[Carrie Ann]

I'm confused as to how Sexy Betsy Ross can fit into this show. Or how she and Ichabod "may have something" (based on Nikki Reed's comments in the interview posted in the Media thread). Is SBR going to suddenly appear, a la Ichabod, in the present day? Was there something unresolved w/r/t to the time-traveling at the end of S2 that I'm forgetting? Otherwise, I'm assuming she's going to appear in flashback only--which is fine, except this show isn't like Arrow or Lost, where the flashbacks have been a huge part of every single episode, or told an ongoing story in their own right. I'm not particularly interested in the show moving to that kind of structure. And even if she is in flashback-only: are these flashbacks taking place post-English fiance but pre-Katrina?

[HalcyonDays]

Commenting on what I posted in Media:
 

The flashbacks will also continue to play an important role this year, as the show explores Ichabod's relationship with Betsy Ross (Nikki Reed) and unexpected twists in American history. "Even [ichabod] is surprised at things that were happening right under his nose that he wasn't fully aware of," Campbell says.

 

I know you guys won't like the above at all, but I would put money on this below scenario:

 

From day one, many of us originally thought that Katrina was manipulating Crane and pushing him (unknown to him) to be a Witness for other reasons. This is what should have been focused on since day 1 on the show, and that is what the wife should have been exposed for doing. Instead, we got the damsel and uselessness and now she's dead.

 

My prediction - they are going to put that exact same storyline on Betsy Ross. This season, I really think they are going to explain why both are Witnesses. This season, Corbin's files and the Mills sister relationship with Joe and August Corbin will be explored, and flashbacks to the past to determine how Crane is supposed to be a Witness. That's why we are going to see Joe Corbin, and also more of Jenny and Joe together. There will be flashbacks, and if not, just those two discussing the past. It will be a parallel theme running through the season.

 

BR knew Crane before he met the wife. Instead of Katrina being the one to direct him, BR will be the one to tip George Washington off on Crane's ability to fight evil, and therefore decisions made to put him in that position, set him up for the ultimate sacrifice. Remember, Crane was a teacher/gentlemen and ended up fighting. Many men did, but that didn't mean he had to.

 

The writers have learned from the Katrina debacle and will not show any romance, just that they interacted in the same social circles. That Crane is surprised at things he finds out is the key - flashbacks where he (and we) see these moments in his life, and we (and he) realize "holy shit, I was being setup/manipulated from the start!"

 

Notice it nowhere says anything about romance. There will not be. BR will manipulate Crane, just as originally it was supposed to be Katrina manipulating Crane, but again, they dropped that storyline. And it's also why BR is in the Culper Ring. Spy information close to GW, hidden secrets (and capitalizing on TURN??).

 

And before people get upset at the lack of mention over Abbie, first, the majority of that writeup was actually published a month ago. Only the last part has been added, probably because now that they announced NR, they had to throw her in there.

 

Also, we know the show is supposed to be broken up into two big arcs. Like, an 9-episode storyline arc, then a break, then another 9-episodes arc. Again, my prediction is that the first arc will be with BR, and the whole "why are we witnesses running through it" and the second arc will be now that Crane and Abbie fully understand WHY they were chosen, they get to face the whole "Pandora's box" thing.

 

Just my speculations.

[DJG1122]

Commenting on what I posted in Media:

 

 

I know you guys won't like the above at all, but I would put money on this below scenario:

 

From day one, many of us originally thought that Katrina was manipulating Crane and pushing him (unknown to him) to be a Witness for other reasons. This is what should have been focused on since day 1 on the show, and that is what the wife should have been exposed for doing. Instead, we got the damsel and uselessness and now she's dead.

 

My prediction - they are going to put that exact same storyline on Betsy Ross. This season, I really think they are going to explain why both are Witnesses. This season, Corbin's files and the Mills sister relationship with Joe and August Corbin will be explored, and flashbacks to the past to determine how Crane is supposed to be a Witness. That's why we are going to see Joe Corbin, and also more of Jenny and Joe together. There will be flashbacks, and if not, just those two discussing the past. It will be a parallel theme running through the season.

 

BR knew Crane before he met the wife. Instead of Katrina being the one to direct him, BR will be the one to tip George Washington off on Crane's ability to fight evil, and therefore decisions made to put him in that position, set him up for the ultimate sacrifice. Remember, Crane was a teacher/gentlemen and ended up fighting. Many men did, but that didn't mean he had to.

 

The writers have learned from the Katrina debacle and now show any romance, just that they interacted in the same social circles. That Crane is surprised at things he finds out is the key - flashbacks where he (and we) see these moments in his life, and we (and he) realize "holy shit, I was being setup/manipulated from the start!"

 

Notice it nowhere says anything about romance. There will not be. BR will manipulate Crane, just as originally it was supposed to be Katrina manipulating Crane, but again, they dropped that storyline. And it's also why BR is in the Culper Ring. Spy information close to GW, hidden secrets (and capitalizing on TURN??).

 

And before people get upset at the lack of mention over Abbie, first, the majority of that writeup was actually published a month ago. Only the last part has been added, probably because now that they announced NR, they had to throw her in there.

 

Also, we know the show is supposed to be broken up into two big arcs. Like, an 9-episode storyline arc, then a break, then another 9-episodes arc. Again, my prediction is that the first arc will be with BR, and the whole "why are we witnesses running through it" and the second arc will be now that Crane and Abbie fully understand WHY they were chosen, they get to face the whole "Pandora's box" thing.

 

Just my speculations.

I really like your theory. That would explain a lot. We'd have Betsy flirtingly manipulating Ichabod in the past and Abbie & Ichabod discovering feelings for each other in the present.

[tv echo]

From TV Guide's Fall Preview...

Returning Fall Shows: Where We Left Off

 

​Sleepy Hollow (Fox)
Premieres: Thursday, Oct. 1 at 9/8c

 

Where We Left Off: Abbie accidentally traveled back to the Revolutionary War era alongside Katrina, who had aligned herself with Abraham. But with the help of Grace Dixon, Abbie and Ichabod were able to undo Katrina's time-travel spell. And once back in current day, Crane killed Katrina, who was reunited with Henry in the afterlife.
 

What's Next: Picking up a year after the events of the finale, Season 3 will find Abbie and Ichabod reuniting after spending some time apart. "Crane has gone on a little bit of a sojourn in search of who he is and continuing to look for his place and his role in this modern time," new showrunner Clifton Campbell says. But when Crane discovers something important on this journey, he returns to Sleepy Hollow to help Abbie face down the second of the seven tribulations. And though Irving, Hawley and even Headless will be absent this year, Jenny will play a much more important role. Not only will her relationship with Abbie be in a stronger place than ever, but she'll team up with Joe Corbin -- whom we met briefly in Season 2 -- to track down things to help the Witnesses face the mysterious new big bad. The flashbacks will also continue to play an important role this year, as the show explores Ichabod's relationship with Betsy Ross (Nikki Reed) and unexpected twists in American history. "Even [ichabod] is surprised at things that were happening right under his nose that he wasn't fully aware of," Campbell says

http://www.tvguide.com/special/fall-preview/gallery/2015-returning-fall-shows/photo/cf4582d8-1337-46d7-873d-9858786753c0

Edited August 11, 2015 by tv echo

[fantique]

I'm confused as to how Sexy Betsy Ross can fit into this show. Or how she and Ichabod "may have something" (based on Nikki Reed's comments in the interview posted in the Media thread). Is SBR going to suddenly appear, a la Ichabod, in the present day? Was there something unresolved w/r/t to the time-traveling at the end of S2 that I'm forgetting? Otherwise, I'm assuming she's going to appear in flashback only--which is fine, except this show isn't like Arrow or Lost, where the flashbacks have been a huge part of every single episode, or told an ongoing story in their own right. I'm not particularly interested in the show moving to that kind of structure. And even if she is in flashback-only: are these flashbacks taking place post-English fiance but pre-Katrina?

1) I don't see why if there is romance between IC & BR, it has to be because she's in the present. Why's that a necessary condition? The show was better when there were more flashbacks in its structure, paralleling its themes in their importance with the present. I think it can be good for the viewers to be emotionally invested beyond the explosions! and twist! aspect dof the flashbacks. My complaint comes more from the sexualising of a historical figure whose story could be great while exploring the tragedy of her only accomplishment acknowledged is the sewing of the flag. And from the obvious lack of imagination on the part of the writers if all she is, is an agency lacking love interest disguised as a badass.

2) As for the timeline, I always assumed it would be post coming to America but pre-Katrina era. The katrina bit is the end of the journey. We saw a bit of its start with Abe so there is definitely more to see here, IMO.

I really like your theory. That would explain a lot. We'd have Betsy flirtingly manipulating Ichabod in the past and Abbie & Ichabod discovering feelings for each other in the present.

Why do the two things have to happen at similar times in the series? In fact, a juxtaposition of the relationship would further encourage the idea that it's only Ich's story and that the two women are being compared and contrasted as his LIs. That takes away from Abbie's strength in the narrative as a lead. It would relegate her to the hero's girl (no, that's not because that's what it would automatically mean, but come on guys...we know what show we're watching). Now if there is a contrast between a "bad" (as in ultimately leading nowhere for whatever reason or built facetious grounds, etc.) relationship of Ich's on the past and Abbie's in the present? Sure. That works to not make her the Girl but It has to have a plot point / characters change attached to it.

I know it might come across as such but I am not against Abbie in a romantic relationship, I am against it being superfluous and clearly going nowhere. Either because the person will be kept in the dark or because unless Abbie changes more during Quantico (which I totes would watch flashbacks for), she doesn't see a happy ending to their mission. A love interested that started at Quantico when she felt freer and is now struggling when she is brought back in, but the foundations give me hope they can work? I would eat that shit up. In fact, the only reason why I like the idea of her having a LI now is that it makes total sense after a year of stability. If it was right after the end of S2, I would call BS. As it stands now, I can buy a good, believable relationship that would have me rooting for it and mourn it should it end.

Basically I don't accept relationships that start during the mission but seeing the effects on a pre-existing one would be great character development, for both guys but especially Abbie. The lines getting blurry between handler and charge is one of my favourite tropes so if she is assigned a guardian angel or something and feelings grow, even if it's ultimately doomed to fail, I am going to looooove it.

Edited August 11, 2015 by fantique

[Carrie Ann]

1) I don't see why if there is romance between IC & BR, it has to be because she's in the present. Why's that a necessary condition?

 

I mean, you quoted my post, you can see that I never said that if there was a romance, it had to be in the present, or that that condition was necessary? I was wondering aloud how BR would appear on the show, and spent the second half of my query talking about how that would work in the flashbacks. At the time, we didn't know for sure that she would only be in flashback, but now it seems she will. That's my preference, so I'm relieved. My point about the flashbacks is that they were never linear--they dipped back into whatever piece of IC's past related to what they were trying to solve in the present day. So we saw Benjamin Franklin one episode, freemasons the next, whatever. With Betsy Ross and the Culper Spy Ring, it seems like we'll either be dealing with one very specific overarching mystery, or just flashing back to the spy stuff at random a la Arrow. Does that make sense? That's my only quibble with the flashback angle.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Indi]

Yeah, no, nothing positive about anything they've been saying, except that Abbie had the good sense to follow her ambitions in life.

Where to begin? Ugh! First, I'm not happy about their choice to make Ichy the center of the mythology again. They had the perfect replacement for Washington's bible and the season 2 mess with Grace's journal. Maybe bring some fairness to the show and make Abbie more than a sidekick, but a sidekick she remains. That's what she is for these people and no matter, what they say "she will have story lines too", the truth is that their only lead is Ichy. Abbie mainly exists to provide him with the case of the week.

We all knew sexy Betsy is their way to show Goffman how it's done. I'm sorry, but we already know how fail witch should have been done, I don't want to see it. It's just the same old story, the same focus on Ichy's love life and specialness. I don't care if they were lovers or not, it's more of the same and the way they keep ignoring Abbie in their promotion of the show is not accidental. nothing has changed.

So when Mr. "I know better" Jackson chided the fans for going for him, because he knew better, meaning he knew they were casting Lance Gross, so Abbie would have stories too, I knew he was full of shit. He doesn't consider her Ichy's equal. Everything important is tied to him: the mythology and the important regular character guiding him. Abbie gets a boss. How wonderful!

Even if he is tied to her romantically, something I doubt, I have the suspicion that he will be Luke 2.0. Someone of no consequence she will ditch for the mission and if we're lucky, we'll get more than a mention that they dated off screen.

After all, Jackson's biggest achievement with a black female character, according to him, was giving her a scene kissing the "cool white guy", not giving her a prominent role. Perhaps he'll feel proud of himself if Abbie gets the most rotten crumbs ever if he gives her a scene kissing the man, who demeaned and betrayed her without consequences for him. But hey, he's white so he's cool, no matter how vile he's been to her.

By the way, who has been paying for Ichy's emo travels to find himself? Is he still bleeding Abbie of her hard earned money?

[fantique]

I mean, you quoted my post, you can see that I never said that if there was a romance, it had to be in the present, or that that condition was necessary? I was wondering aloud how BR would appear on the show, and spent the second half of my query talking about how that would work in the flashbacks. At the time, we didn't know for sure that she would only be in flashback, but now it seems she will. That's my preference, so I'm relieved. My point about the flashbacks is that they were never linear--they dipped back into whatever piece of IC's past related to what they were trying to solve in the present day. So we saw Benjamin Franklin one episode, freemasons the next, whatever. With Betsy Ross and the Culper Spy Ring, it seems like we'll either be dealing with one very specific overarching mystery, or just flashing back to the spy stuff at random a la Arrow. Does that make sense? That's my only quibble with the flashback angle.

Sorry, I guess I didn't read correctly.

My confusion stemmed from your confusion over how she will fit. The first half of your post considered the "will she be in the present" route because of the "there may be something" comment. I thought you were presenting an opposition between your assumption that she stays in the past and the fact that their relationship would be significant. Sorry about that. As for the timeline, I agree that they previously showed things that don't really seem to be in chronological order wrt the episodes they appear in. I guess the going in and out of the flashbacks is ok with me. I think I wasn't sure what you were unsure about (now that's irony) and now I am seeing that you are apprehensive about the format. Yeah, I guess if you don't like it or have seen bad examples of it, there is cause for concern. Especially when thinking about Arrow's disastrous flashbacks this past season.

Hopefully it will be good though.

Edited August 12, 2015 by fantique

[Carrie Ann]

Ha, yeah, in my original post, I was mostly feeling pre-annoyed about Betsy Ross's role this season, and I honestly thought maybe I'd forgotten where things had left off at the end of last season and that it would be possible she'd end up in the present via some time-traveling woo-woo. I definitely don't want that! Past only is fine, and I hope the flashbacks are limited in terms of minutes per ep. It just seems strange to hire someone like NR as a regular and make a big splash about it, and then have her only appear a few minutes out of every episode (or not even every episode). We'll see, I guess.

[Ann Mack]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/28/spoiler-room-blacklist-castle-flash-spoilers?hootPostID=fec007741766f5f195e1e47ee943cbcc

 

This time line they have for Abbie defeats and dismisses the narrative of the shows pilot episode. Why just why can't they do right by Abbie? Even when they discuss S3 the primary focus is still on Ichabod. http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2015/08/27/sleepy-hollow-alex-kurtzman-teases-season-3/ 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Ann Mack

[Watermelon]

What's the narrative from the pilot?  

 

I promise I've seen every episode, but I have no clue how Abbie now having been a Quantico recruit 4 years ago changes what we were told in the pilot.

[catrox14]

Wait a fucking minute here.

 

 

Beyond being “Abbie’s boss,” what importance will the character Daniel Reynolds hold in this upcoming season of Sleepy Hollow? — Ramón
Yeah, he’s not just Abbie’s boss. Reynolds (Lance Gross) and Abbie first met at Quantico as recruits, where they pushed each other, which led to a short but passionate affair before they parted ways to pursue their careers — Reynolds as a rookie FBI agent, and Abbie back to her hometown of Sleepy Hollow to work for the Sheriff’s Department. It’s been four years when they reunite in the new season and now he’s her boss, so this should be interesting!

 

This spoiler.  WTF? Seriously WTFuckingF??

 

Okay someone needs to help me here, but I'm 100% certain this is a 100% retcon. Abbie NEVER made it to Quantico. She was going to leave in a week for the FBI Academy. when she decided to stay behind with the Sheriff's dept. because of being a Witness.  Abbie NEVER went to Quantico before she worked for the Sheriff WTF.

 

This is so bad. I mean sooo very bad.  Because part of the poignancy of her choice to stay behind is the sacrifice she made because she was now a Witness, giving up her dream!

 

/head desk head desk head desk

 

From the transcript of the pilot. The conversation between Abbie and Sheriff Corbin.

 

 

Sheriff: I'm just saying, aren't you gonna miss all the excitement?

Quantico takes It is the FBI's only feeder program.

 

I'm not asking if you're qualified. I'm asking if you're running away.

Abbie: Hey, your pie's soup, old man.

Sheriff: Time's up.

Abbie: It's on me.

Sheriff: Father.

Minister: Sheriff.

 

 

And from the Sleepy Hollow Wiki and my own memory of having watched the pilot like 10 times at least!

 

Abbie Mills is a lieutenant with the Westchester County Police Department in the small town of Sleepy Hollow. She is poised to leave the town in a week for the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, but with the slaying of her mentor and partner, by a headless horseman, her plans are derailed. Unwilling to divulge the more supernatural elements of partner's murderer without further proof she is forced to team up with Ichabod Crane, an unwilling fugitive from the past who claims to be a soldier in the Revolutionary War and the only person that can collaborate her story. Together they learn they are the Witnesses foretold in the book of Revelation to fight against the coming apocalypse. Throughout the season, Abbie struggles with the death of her mentor, her skepticism, her partnership with Ichabod, rebuilding her relationship with her sister, and accepting her role as a witness.

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by catrox14

[Indi]

So they can't even keep up with canon about Abbie and the story for her is just a repeat of her story with Luke? LOL.

 

It makes sense. They give Ichy Katrina 2.0 and all the focus in the writing room, so Abbie must get Luke 2.0 and the same enthusiasm the "old" team had for her character. 

 

Faith! Patience!

[catrox14]

This is so bad, guys. Just so bad. HOLY SHIT.

 

 

So they can't even keep up with canon about Abbie and the story for her is just a repeat of her story with Luke? LOL.

 

It makes sense. They give Ichy Katrina 2.0 and all the focus in the writing room, so Abbie must get Luke 2.0 and the same enthusiasm the "old" team had for her character.

 

Faith! Patience!

 

I just seriously cannot believe this. I am so stunned, I tweeted at Sleepy Hollow and EW reminding them this couldn't have happened. And I'm not the only one. Dying to see their response.

 

I can handle retcons to a point that don't involve the two leads or that don't entirely destroy motivations set out at the beginning. How the fuck does this make it out of the writers room??

[Indi]

How the fuck does this make it out of the writers room??

 

Ask Leigh Butthurt Jackson, who doesn't like to have his writing criticized and who said they all had watched the show. 

 

Or we could also ask the half of the writers and producers, who haven't left and who seem to have amnesia.

[catrox14]

Ask Leigh Butthurt Jackson, who doesn't like to have his writing criticized and who said they all had watched the show.

Or we could also ask the half of the writers and producers, who haven't left and who seem to have amnesia.

The only way this works is if the time reset puts everyone in different time line. {I can hear the keyboards taking my idea right now) .

[Watermelon]

After perusing google for how are FBI agents, the only way this can makes sense is if Abbie met him during Phase 1 and 2 of the process. Which wouldn't really require them to "push" each other as phase 1 is a written test and 2 is an interview.

 

So that's weird.

[catrox14]

That's a reach.but I give you points for trying. I am could buy a one night stand after a night of studying but that does not a torrid affair make and if it does.. Um what.?

[Dizzychickstar]

It is weird. I need it to make sense. Why couldn't he be some recruiter or contact who encouraged her all those years ago? They kept contact and one thing led to another...if they want some history between the two...or even better, maybe nothing happened but there was always the tension. Hmmm...indeed.

[Watermelon]

I could go for they met at phase one, again at phase 2. had a passionate night after their interviews and he was looking forward to seeing her in Quantico, but of course she never made it.  

 

unless they're using "short but passionate" as a stand in for "one night stand" i'm not enthused. 

[HalcyonDays]

I think everyone should wait and see how the actual story unfolds. Oh wait, I sound like LDJ. He's absolutely right though. You know how many times I read the long detailed episode synopses for the show from SpoilerTV, and got really irritated with certain parts, only to find out that in translation/unfolding on screen, it wasn't as bad as I thought, or in many cases, actually pretty good (whenever no K-wife was involved). I remember side-eyeing the karaoke idea as really cheesy (it was awesome), and thought the yoga was a stupid thing too (it was great until Crane brought up the K-wife). I never mentioned it here, but I thought it.

 

Fact is, of course it's a retcon/reboot. It has to be, to "reboot" the series and go back to their "roots" - aka Abbie and Crane. Nothing wrong with that and quite expected. Also, while the pilot was fabulous (brilliantly fabulous) the whole Abbie was/wasn't at Quantico was such a small sentence that they just decided to retcon it anyway. Eh. Whatcha gonna do? Extant totally retconned everything from season 1. Castle did some late season retconning. Other shows do it too. Happens all of the time in TV land.

 

And I just want to remind everyone once again what the reactions were (including myself) that everyone had about Abbie going back to the 18th century in Tempus Fugit and the resulting internet meltdown that occurred, before presenting the best episode of the series.

 

What I am interested in is how the existing characters, the new characters and the episodes will appear on screen, act, and how the story will unfold.

 

So, like I say *shrugs shoulders*. Eh. Whatever. I'll watch and see. I was incredibly excited for 8 months for season 2, and that excitement was quickly killed by episode 2. Maybe my apathy and non-excitement for this season will yield something exciting and amazing for all of us viewers and make me impatient to see next weeks episode.

[catrox14]

 

the whole Abbie was/wasn't at Quantico was such a small sentence that they just decided to retcon it anyway. Eh. Whatcha gonna do? Extant totally retconned everything from season 1. Castle did some late season retconning. Other shows do it too. Happens all of the time in TV land.

 

It was mentioned twice in the pilot and IIRC it was mentioned a few more times over the course of the first few episodes. You can poo-poo those of us that find it concerning for Abbie's characterization but it was not a minor matter that Abbie didn't go to Quantico.  She gave it all up to stay behind and be a witness and try to solve Corbin's murder. It was big sacrifice for her.

 

Extant HAD to retcon because it was pretty bad the first season. Other shows have done it. Retconning Abbie's FBI history changes Abbie's background in a way I find boring. It's so she can have a romance. They could have introduced her love interest in a million other ways. The problems with SH was never with Abbie or Ichabod so retconning Abbie's past makes little sense to this viewer.

 

And I respectfully but vehemently disagree that Tempus Fugit was the best episode of the entire series. IMO that honor goes to the Pilot and Midnight Rider/Necromancer equally.  The reset in Tempus Fugit was necessary to save the stinking ship and they did a good job but nope. I don't like what I'm hearing so far.

Edited August 29, 2015 by catrox14

[HalcyonDays]

It was mentioned twice in the pilot and IIRC it was mentioned a few more times over the course of the first few episodes. You can poo-poo those of us that find it concerning for Abbie's characterization but it was not a minor matter that Abbie didn't go to Quantico.  She gave it all up to stay behind and be a witness and try to solve Corbin's murder. It was big sacrifice for her.

 

It's not a minor matter, but on the show, them retconning or ignoring already established history is nothing new - in fact it's business as usual. They completely dropped August Corbin's files and their importance. They extended the lifespan of a pointless witch and make her incredibly weak. They killed Irving then resurrected him (he was supposed to remain dead). They turned kick-ass AK-47 wielding Headless into a love-sick weakling. They dropped anything about Captain Reyes. They decided to ignore Jenny's artifact finding powers. They screwed up the pregnancy timeline and public knowledge of baby!Henry. They didn't bother to explain Luke's "death" or not-so-death. They never answered or addressed the fall out from the mass murder of the Masons, amongst other things.

 

Hell, season 2 is so much of a blur for me, that the other retcons/unaddressed things I don't even remember.

 

The only one - the only one - who has escaped most of these character destroying stories or changes in motivations just happens to be Abbie.

 

Go figure.

 

Also, because we have so little history of Abbie's past, why does everyone think she didn't go before? She is supposed to be 27 at show start. If she went to University, she would feasibly have graduated at the age of 23 perhaps (I see Abbie  - since she is quite intelligent, graduating younger than her peers). Maybe she decides to enroll in the FBI, but decides half-way through training, at that point in her life, it isn't for her. Maybe her mental state/stress levels. Maybe she didn't have the drive at such a young age. Maybe her rebelliousness worked against her. So she bails, ends up at SH Police department and is there for a few years. Now that she is older, a bit more mature, confident in herself. Then, the thought hits her again. Quantico. She wants to try Quanitico again. It's something that has become a passion, something she really wants.

 

She confides in August Corbin, who encourages her, and she decides that this time, she really wants to do this. She commits herself to this career move. So she applies and starts studying for the entrance exam again, and training and she is determined to get into Quantico and ultimately to be an FBI agent.

 

Then that night happens, she meets Crane and the rest is SH history.

 

So it's even more poignant and meaningful that Abbie decided not to attend Quantico. She was there once, left for whatever reasons, then decided that YES, this is her path and career desire, and boom, she decides against it again.

 

I guess I can come up with various scenarios in my head that could expand Abbie's story and give her some good meaty material. Again, teenage Abbie was in a bad place, got caught, Corbin gave her a choice. Clean up or go to jail. She went to university but assuming she went at age 18 or 19, she graduated 22 or 23. So there are FOUR unaccounted years that we have no idea of, of what she could have done. Hence the retcon. Makes sense, in a "let's make drama, introduce a cock-blocker against Crane, expand Abbie's history" sort of retcon way.

 

Which is why I repeat. I'll wait and see how the episodes grab me.

[Indi]

It's so she can have a romance.

Not really. It's so that she can't have a romance, because Daniel could have been introduced in a number of different ways, that would have led to a romance in the present. What we have here is an aftermath, exact same scenario as with Luke, so that any romance involving Abbie are just mentions of it.

 

Every spoiler indicates the new showrunner is more fixated in taking digs at Goffman with Katrina 2.0 and Luke 2.0, than in making the show compelling again. Messing with the timeline so carelessly and unnecessarily is not a good sign.

[catrox14]

I meant more that she could have a romance in the past that could end up being rekindled now. 

[HalcyonDays]

Not really. It's so that she can't have a romance, because Daniel could have been introduced in a number of different ways, that would have led to a romance in the present.

 

Ah, not really. Because they are going to do the trope of "forbidden" romance with the boss scenario in the past, BUT!!! since she is no longer reporting to said boss, romance abounds.

 

Every spoiler indicates the new showrunner is more fixated in taking digs at Goffman with Katrina 2.0 and Luke 2.0, than in making the show compelling again.

 

Again, I disagree. Nothing the showrunners have - barely - said, screams or even hints at Katrina 2.0. To me, it really doesn't. Viewing episode content themself may change my mind, but nah - really....I don't see it at all. I think people WANT to see it - i.e. are jumping to conclusions, expecting the worse. But I don't logically see that happening based on evidence. But hey - what do I know? I may eat my words, or I may be rubbing it into your faces that I was right. *grin*

 

Either way - just give me a bloody good season, SVP. That's all I ask. Classic SH awesomeness....

[DearEvette]

So.. what is the time jump between S2 and S3?  The four-year thing is puzzling.  Earlier spoilers suggest she headed off to Quantico after all the evens of S2.  So did she meet him then, come back to SH and now it is four years post S2?  Or are they now really retconning? If they are retconning one semi-plausible explanation could be that her trip to the past didn't 100% reset things to exactly the way they were and some very small changes did occur.   And honestly, Abbie was changed through that travel because she met Grace and had that experience so things couldn't be 100% the same in any case.

 

Information about anything S3 except new casting  had been so stingy that it is hard not to latch in the tiniest thing and bug it to death.