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Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I rolled my eyes so hard when I read that part of the teasers. These writers really think Katrina is the shit. They have to hammer home that EVERY man thinks she's amazing yet we have seen no evidence of anything but a basic failure of a witch.

 

That "reporter" loved Katrina to death and thinks CFD is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Read his reply to the comments. He also sees Abbie and Ichabod as brother/sister. He's biased (but then so am I). And honestly, I really like Hawley but I think Hawley probably just gets a kick out of the corset. Hee.

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The Cake is a Pie
The Cake is a Pie

I'm an optimist. Why not a Henry-Katrina murder-suicide?

DJG1122
DJG1122

Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie?

catrox14
catrox14

I do not care about Hawley past. I care about Ichabod and Abbie being witnesses. This is why the order of 18 episodes is problematic for the show. Because this is a filler. And I am becoming increasin

Ann Mack

Ann Mack

That "reporter" loved Katrina to death and thinks CFD is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Read his reply to the comments. He also sees Abbie and Ichabod as brother/sister. He's biased (but then so am I). And honestly, I really like Hawley but I think Hawley probably just gets a kick out of the corset. Hee.

Do you have a link to the article?

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Moonsky

Moonsky

(edited)

Most people believe that the beloved character that will die is either Frank or Jenny. Hawley could die along with one of them & some people do like him but I don't think the word beloved would be attached to his name at this point in the season. Even if Frank or Jenny dies & later comes back from the dead it’s still pathetic because the show has basically sidelined both characters all season long so for them to now use either one of those characters for a big moment is insulting. Frank’s storyline with Henry makes him an option for death & his post apocalypse flash forward showed him in that scene with the Horseman of War in the background, so who knows where they might go with his character. Some people have suspected that Jenny would die within the next few seasons but with Abbie in the episodes Mama & Magnum Opus bringing up the women in her family dying young because of this war, there has been more worry about Jenny’s fate now even if she makes it out of the mid-season finale alive.

 

So Mison and Beharie who are arguably the best actors currently in the cast who could easily handle dual roles, are stuck with character assassination/marginalization and Jones and Greenwood are reduced to less than supporting characters and we get saddled with MORE winter? Really?

 

Out of all the characters & talented actors on this show, Goffman decided to stan for the weakest character & actor who is a part of the main cast. From the way he has gone to bat since day one for Katia/Katrina over every other actor/character one could come up with many reasons why that would be from a crush on the actress, to genuinely believing that Katia is the most talented actress he has ever been blessed to meet, to believing that Katrina is the best character ever created in entertainment history but if Goffman doesn’t think his bias is obvious, then he is sadly mistaken because I've watched & read  interviews with this man where the question has nothing to do with Katrina/Katia & he will break his neck to find a way to insert her name into the discussion for no real reason at all.

Edited by Moonsky
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Now that I know that Goffman wrote Monday's episode...when the spoilers stated that Ichabod will finally decide whether to take out Henry or not, I think he will decide NOT too. Because of course he has to side with the wife. In doing so, someone dies and this is what causes the HUGE rift between him and Abbie.

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chrisvee

chrisvee

Hm. ScreenSpy says there is tremendous strain the the Crane marriage and they may never get back together. Blogcritics say there is strain between Ichabod and Abbie.

I'm still going with Ichabod deciding to sacrifice Henry and Katrina opposes him.

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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

Hmmm… Well, based on what I've seen, I think Irving "kills" Henry (or at least sends him to Purgatory) with Ichabod's reluctant encouragement--which Katrina won't like.  I'm not sure what happens to Irving after that-- he may well be "killed" as well, but I think his soul will be his own one way or another. I'm also worried about Jenny as well, though. I can't see Abbie dying at this point, to be honest.

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Indi

Indi

Now that I know that Goffman wrote Monday's episode...when the spoilers stated that Ichabod will finally decide whether to take out Henry or not, I think he will decide NOT too. Because of course he has to side with the wife. In doing so, someone dies and this is what causes the HUGE rift between him and Abbie.

 

I think he will decide to take him out, after Oh So Very Heartwrenching Self Doubt and Melodrama, but he won't be able to kill Henry, because John Noble is a regular, so, in the end, it's a meaningless decision.

 

I would have understood his need to redeem Henry if he had raised him and only for a couple of episodes at most. This, however, has been ridiculous. Katrina is stupid and delusional, but she's the embodiment of hormones > common sense. Ichy doesn't even have that excuse. So he feels guilty he wasn't there for Henry? That selfish whiny asshole still thinks his fragile feelings are more important than the fate of humanity, at least until last episode.

 

The damage is already done though. Watching the boring selfish  Cranewrecks wringing their hands and claim to the four winds, that their demonic son is worthier than everybody else, has been disgusting. It's like those parents, who refuse to turn their murderous sons or daughters to the police, so they just keep killing. No, it is worse. The Cranewrecks don't even know their son. They are doing this for a complete stranger.

 

Goffman somehow thought this dreck is compelling drama. Incredible! But then he probably thinks he's a great showrunner and writer, as well.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

Pieces together various bits of spoilers... I think the strain between Ichabod & Abbie leads to the strain b/t Ichabod & Katrina. Or vice versa.

 

I've read one spoiler that says Katrina uses magic against Abbie.  Don't know how credible that is, but if it is true.... man....

 

So it could play out that Katrina and Ichabod decided at a crucial moment against taking Henry out, and it results in Jenny's death .. thus creating the strain b/t Ichabod & Abbie (...cus yet another Mills death being caused by Cranes)

 

Abbie is like... all bets are off fuck you and your kid and goes after Henry.  And when she is about to take him out, Katrina zaps her or something.  Finally Ichabod opens his eyes and sees his trick of a wife for what she is and realizes that she would hurt Abbie to save Henry is just too much.

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savinggrace

savinggrace

(edited)

More from TVguide.com

 

 

Even though Henry will be fighting full force to bring on the Apocalypse, there is still hope of redemption for the sin eater. "Henry has proven that he is clearly on the side of evil. He is the Horseman of War. He's the servant of Moloch. And yet, if he has a soft spot at all, it's Katrina, his mother," Kim says. "She is our way to reach him, and if there's any hope of having Henry either repent or turn against Moloch, it's going to come from Katrina."

 

Sometimes I swear we're watching a different show than the writers or all of them are on crack. First it sounds like they are still angling for Henry's redemption. Pardon my French but, why the fuck should we care if this man is redeemed? Also, did I miss where Henry showed a soft spot for Katrina? Was it when he looked in her face the last episode and mocked her compassion and told her straight up he chose the side of evil? Wouldn't it make sense from a strategic point to kill Henry and Moloch as opposed to trying to sweet-talk a self-declared evil person into redemption?

 

I also don't like how they are making Katrina out to be as important as the witnesses. This is supposed to be Abbie and Ichabod's task with everyone else there to supplement. It sounds like they are giving Katrina way more weight than she should have in this battle.

 

It looks like Hawley gets left alone with Headless. That doesn't sound too good for his fate. He's also curiously absent from any promo pics for this episode.

Edited by savinggrace
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Indi

Indi

 Also, did I miss where Henry showed a soft spot for Katrina? Was it when he looked in her face the last episode and mocked her compassion and told her straight up he chose the side of evil?

 

What? Did you miss his soft spot for dear mommy, when he impregnated her with baby Moloch?

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Putting it in here for the record...The "beloved character" who dies - I'm calling Headless/Abraham, who will actually gets redemption.

 

Hawley I'm calling for other reasons and duh, most likely.

 

And possibly Frank, but if this is correct, Frank's soul will some how takes over the body of Headless, and he will eventually be saved/recovered.

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topanga

topanga

Putting it in here for the record...The "beloved character" who dies - I'm calling Headless/Abraham, who will actually gets redemption.

 

Hawley I'm calling for other reasons and duh, most likely.

 

And possibly Frank, but if this is correct, Frank's soul will some how takes over the body of Headless, and he will eventually be saved/recovered.

But Headless isn't beloved. Hawley is liked by some but not beloved. It has to be a character we've invested in.

 

Katrina is beloved by some... but of course it won't be her. If it's Jenny I will be bummed. Same with Irving.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

But Headless isn't beloved. Hawley is liked by some but not beloved. It has to be a character we've invested in.

 

Ah, but in a strange way he is - everyone loves seeing Headless himself do his stuff, axe and all, AND on top of that, every media event that the cast attends, always has some person or people dressed in Headless outfits, "terrorizing" the crowds.

 

Just saying...*grin*

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topanga

topanga

Going from the teasers about the loss being "heartbreaking" and a "fatal blow" to Team Witness, I'm thinking it has to be Irving or Jenny since Headless was never on Team Witness.

Stop. I'm getting sad. : (

 

But if it is Jenny, I hope enough people have seen Lyndie's talent that she will get more work soon.

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cynic

cynic

I don't know if this person has a true spoiler, but I commented on some article a while back that I was against Abbie/Hawley because of Jenny. I got a reply yesterday that the Jenny issue won't be a problem after tonight. O.o They're just messing with me, right????

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Logically I would say it's Irving, only because like with The Walking Dead, everyone pretty much knew who the sacrifice(s) were to be, and were spot on, so I expect the same for tonight...but it's fun to speculate - maybe it really will be a twist??

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I don't really follow spoilers for this show, and kind of only half bother to watch it, so drastically has it fallen off a cliff. But let me get this straight... Jenny is probably going to die, and Katia Winter is going to be playing two characters? The fuck? Do these writers want to be unemployed?

 

Perhaps it's a very clever way of getting rid of Katrina and keeping Katia, by having her play a different character, and killing Katrina off. A vain hope? You betcha. This show getting cancelled because they treated the popular characters like shit and gave all their attention to their pets (who happen to be the white folks)? I actually kind of hope it happens. I'll feel terrible for Nicole Beharie and Tom Mison, but they both deserve better than this.

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chrisvee

chrisvee

I'm just anticipating the fan meltdown if it's Jenny. Is there a witness protection program for writers? The Sleepy Hollow scribes are gonna need it.

I'm actually thinking the writers will do this. And destroy their show in the process.

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blixie

blixie

If they kill off Jenny or Irving and simultaneously keep Katrina, they will kill off whatever remains of my desire to watch the show. I've never seen writers so determined to piss off a fanbase since Silvio Horta at Ugly Betty who managed to fuck up a story that was hugely popular in every country of the world, by changing it (not letting Betty change nor Betty/Daniel's romance to develop), because he knew better. But it took Horta three years to ruin that show, these tools are so much more efficient. 

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slayer2

slayer2

(edited)

I have a terrible feeling that Abbie is going to die in Ichabod' arms. That photo looks like Abbie is the beloved one. I'm not even kidding.

I would rather Abbie died because at least then I know she's coming back. If Jenny dies then it could be another Sara Lance situation and I don't have the heart to deal with that.

 

Are we sure that we aren't in Sleepy Hollow ourselves? 'Cause this really is starting to feel like hell on earth.

Edited by slayer2
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JayKay

JayKay

Mama Mills' comment to Abbie that she would "go farther than any of us," i.e. be the last Mills standing against Moloch while Jenny was standing right there has had me concerned ever since.

None of these spoilers are helping.

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

Logically I would say it's Irving, only because like with The Walking Dead, everyone pretty much knew who the sacrifice(s) were to be, and were spot on, so I expect the same for tonight...but it's fun to speculate - maybe it really will be a twist??

You were right!

When Irving died, I texted my sister, "This is just like WD all over again... except sad!"

Edited by cynic
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Logically I would say it's Irving, only because like with The Walking Dead, everyone pretty much knew who the sacrifice(s) were to be, and were spot on, so I expect the same for tonight...but it's fun to speculate - maybe it really will be a twist??

I hate quoting this (and myself!!) and being right. You vile bloody show.

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johntfs

johntfs

(edited)

Assuming that they're using Paradise Lost as a guide, the next mega-demon is Belial.

 

I can easily see Hawley waiting in the cell looking at his watch when the lights flicker, at which point Hawley will produce the Mirror of Zinthos or somesuch and show Abraham how little Moloch valued him and say something like, "So, what say we get out of here and you can serve a being with more power and a lot more smarts than the horn-headed dipshit you used to serve, who will be happy for you to have Katrina.  Or you can stay here and fall into a pile of bones as Moloch's power withers away and Katrina can bury your ass to go back to her hubby.  Up to you, but choose quick, you're on a deadline.  Literally."

Edited by johntfs
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Captain Asshat

Captain Asshat

(edited)

On that note, how on earth are Mison's feet NOT touching the ground. Also, he's going to hold onto Abbie for support? As awesome as that is, he's huge compared to her - one sharp turn and he'll pull tiny Abbie OFF the bike! And if the positions were to be reversed, you wouldn't be able to SEE her behind him!! Ha!

I am a woman who rides, and can answer those questions. A motorcycle passenger's feet should never touch the ground. The passenger's job is, quite simply, to be a sack of potatoes. Their feet remain on the passenger pegs. The only other instruction I ever give my passengers, after telling them to just sit and enjoy the ride, is to look over my right shoulder when I turn right, and look over my left shoulder when I turn left. Passengers' feet also likely wouldn't reach the ground. Why? The passenger (pillion) seat of a motorcycle is raised a few inches higher than the rider's portion of the seat. Also, your legs are spread a bit by the seat itself, which cuts down on your inseam a bit. In some cases, the pillion seat is wider than the rider's seat. I can't tell, from the photo, whether TM's feet are hovering or on passenger pegs.

 

Ichabod also wouldn't pull Abbie off the bike in a sharp turn. Unlike cars, bikes lean *into* turns. With the passenger being a sack of potatoes, they kind of become part of the bike. They automatically lean with the bike and the rider. I could totally take sharp turns with a tall guy on the back of my bike, and we'd both be fine.

Edited by Captain Asshat
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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

(edited)

You know how we are supposed to be getting a Karaoke scene in episode 14? My money is on Abbie singing to Hawley and Crane singing some mopey love song to the wife...

In an interview, TPTB stated they aren't doing Abbie/Hawley. They are going to do something with Jenny/Hawley. Abbie singing to Hawley makes no sense but since she isn't important oe significant, who knows with this stupid show.

Plus the actor has signed on to do a TNT show, so to me his whole story is mute.

Edited by BestestAuntEver
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Amethyst

Amethyst

In an interview, TPTB stated they aren't doing Abbie/Hawley. They are going to do something with Jenny/Hawley. Abbie singing to Hawley makes no sense but since she isn't important oe significant, who knows with this stupid show.

 

So they're definitely going with Hawley and Jenny?  Did not know that.  If Matt's new show falls through, I guess he'll be coming back.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

In an interview, TPTB stated they aren't doing Abbie/Hawley. They are going to do something with Jenny/Hawley. Abbie singing to Hawley makes no sense but since she isn't important oe significant, who knows with this stupid show.

Plus the actor has signed on to do a TNT show, so to me his whole story is mute.

 

Oh, I didn't mean it like that. I meant it like the gang (including) Hawley will be in the bar, and Abbie goes up to sing a song, and we will have Hawley beaming at her as she does. I know they bailed on the romantic connection. And of course then Crane will sing to Katrina, but she will mostly likely be around.

 

Because even though he "questions" the marriage, he will go running back.

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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

(edited)

^Yeah, that's in the can already.  And Goffman would absolutely pull something obnoxious like that to make Katrina seem like she's all that.  But maybe...maybe they'll edited the scene with Crane singing so we won't know who he's singing to.  They did cut the Abbie/Hawley kiss from "The Akeda", so there's that. 

Edited by Reese
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DearEvette

DearEvette

I am waaaay too lazy to link, but I have noticed that in the last two interviews Goffmann did on the show, he seems to be trying to mention Abbie some.  This is different from the interviews that first came out in the wake of Magnum Opus & The Akeda.  In those he was still very much pushing Katrina and her integration into the current time as a major story arc.  As a matter of fact there is one interview where he doesn't even mention Abbie, really.

 

But now in these most recent two he is trying to say that 2B is all about Abbie.  Yeah, it sounds forced, honestly, but it seems like he got a Memo.   But even so, you can't un-ring those earlier bells.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I am waaaay too lazy to link, but I have noticed that in the last two interviews Goffmann did on the show, he seems to be trying to mention Abbie some.  This is different from the interviews that first came out in the wake of Magnum Opus & The Akeda.  In those he was still very much pushing Katrina and her integration into the current time as a major story arc.  As a matter of fact there is one interview where he doesn't even mention Abbie, really.

 

But now in these most recent two he is trying to say that 2B is all about Abbie.  Yeah, it sounds forced, honestly, but it seems like he got a Memo.   But even so, you can't un-ring those earlier bells.

 

Yeah, looks like FOX or someone got him to 'remember' who his leads are. Same with Raven Metzner - after his twitter meltdown, he suddenly tweets something like 'Thank you to the fans who criticize us and therefore keep us on our toes.' Yeah, sure dude. Your feet were flat on the ground for two weeks and you were completely a dismissive ass when the fans were giving you a hard time re: Deliverance and the #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter tag fallout.

 

The stupid thing is that I remember in the summer, articles talking about how this season would focus more on Abbie's and Jenny's backstory, so the original intention was there, so then what happened? That's what confuses me (amongst so many things with this show...) They were saying it then, but then Katrina happened, then the backlash, and now Goffman is saying it again. But again, devoting the last two episodes of the season to Abbie (plus Mama) out of a total 15?? Very dicey and suspicious.

 

If the show was better this year, then I would've been of the mindset that they would resolve the whole Henry/Katrina thing, kill both of them off, then embark on new adventures in season 3 where Abbie was the focus. Off topic, but I do remember not as much focus on Scully family drama, and lots of Mulder and his whole sister/father drama (episodes I skip on rewatch, incidently). In a way, SH is just like the X-Files, in that Abbie assists Ichabod, as Scully assists Mulder on personal family mysteries.

 

We already know that 2B is a lot more Katrina. We're going to be getting Katrina starting up a coven again or something, as per Goffman's recent podcast on Nerdist. *sigh*. More on Katrina again? Bore-ing. Again, reminds me of the Samantha and Diana Fowley mess, except in the X-Files, these irritating episodes and irritating characters were limited in screen appearance. On SH, they instead are pushing these irritants to the forefront.

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topanga

topanga

 

We already know that 2B is a lot more Katrina. We're going to be getting Katrina starting up a coven again or something, as per Goffman's recent podcast on Nerdist. *sigh*. More on Katrina again? Bore-ing.

If Katrina's storyline became exciting, and she was able to use her witching skills to work with Abbie and Ichabod to prevent the Apocalypse, I wouldn't mind that. But Katrina's actions this season (by no fault of Katia Winter) have all been reactions to people doing things to her: being held as Shirtless Headless's prisoner, being impregnated with Baby Moloch, or being knocked unconscious when she tried to perform a spell.

 

And the few times we've seen her make an independent decision, the decision has been pretty bone-headed. "Hey, I'm going to stay with Abraham so I can spy on him and Henry. Only, I didn't do any actual spying." "Oh, look. A raven. I can go all 'Game of Thrones' and send Ichabod a strategic note that will help our cause. 'Ichabod, my love. I miss you. Love, Katrina.'" "I'm going to kill Moloch with this poison. Oh, no, he's made himself look like a blond pre-teen boy. Of course I can't kill him now."

 

I don't want Katrina to replace Abby, but if she's going to be on the screen so much, can she at least be useful?

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phoenics

phoenics

Yeah, looks like FOX or someone got him to 'remember' who his leads are. Same with Raven Metzner - after his twitter meltdown, he suddenly tweets something like 'Thank you to the fans who criticize us and therefore keep us on our toes.' Yeah, sure dude. Your feet were flat on the ground for two weeks and you were completely a dismissive ass when the fans were giving you a hard time re: Deliverance and the #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter tag fallout.

 

The stupid thing is that I remember in the summer, articles talking about how this season would focus more on Abbie's and Jenny's backstory, so the original intention was there, so then what happened? That's what confuses me (amongst so many things with this show...) They were saying it then, but then Katrina happened, then the backlash, and now Goffman is saying it again. But again, devoting the last two episodes of the season to Abbie (plus Mama) out of a total 15?? Very dicey and suspicious.

 

If the show was better this year, then I would've been of the mindset that they would resolve the whole Henry/Katrina thing, kill both of them off, then embark on new adventures in season 3 where Abbie was the focus. Off topic, but I do remember not as much focus on Scully family drama, and lots of Mulder and his whole sister/father drama (episodes I skip on rewatch, incidently). In a way, SH is just like the X-Files, in that Abbie assists Ichabod, as Scully assists Mulder on personal family mysteries.

 

We already know that 2B is a lot more Katrina. We're going to be getting Katrina starting up a coven again or something, as per Goffman's recent podcast on Nerdist. *sigh*. More on Katrina again? Bore-ing. Again, reminds me of the Samantha and Diana Fowley mess, except in the X-Files, these irritating episodes and irritating characters were limited in screen appearance. On SH, they instead are pushing these irritants to the forefront.

Even worse - it's 3 episodes out of EIGHTEEN!!! That's - that's how you treat a SUPPORTING character - not your lead actress.

Meanwhile - Katrina got Deliverance plus she's going to get 2 more episodes after that. And you could argue that even after Deliverance, she still got a huge chunk of Succubus, Magnum Opus and The Akeda.

I need Goffman to be fired and I need Katrina killed off. At this point nothing less will make me come back to watch this show.

I don't want Katrina to replace Abby, but if she's going to be on the screen so much, can she at least be useful?

Quoting Sirius Black from Harry Potter: "Let's kill [her]!"

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