All Episodes Talk

[grisgris]

Ugh. The same old shit again. With the generation that was keen on publishing church and community cookbooks dying off, Ree must be runnin' into a brick wall.  What in the fresh hell was that enchilada sauce? Why add chicken bouillon cubes to it? And what is this woman's obsession with everything jalapeno? I think I would have used queso fresco or something other than sour cream for the filing.

 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like her pulled pork always looks a tad on the dry side.

 

I pictured Grandpa hastily stubbing out his 100th Marlboro for the day as the cameras rolled in. Also loved how Ladd and Cowboy Josh showed up in clean crisp clothes with every hair in place. I normally don't think he's that much, but today Ladd looked kinda hot sporting the stubble.

[autumnh]

I tried it once, years ago.  Nope, never again.  Tomatoes may be acidic, but they have a sweetness all their own.  Maybe it's because I'm French.  We don't add sugar to any savory sauces.  YMMV.

to each his own....even when I went to Naples they used a bit of sugar.....it is all about our personal tastes though! ...although I make a fab Scachatta w/ fresh veggies..I roast my own veggies and bake my own bread...

Although...I think you need to put it into perspective....when making a huge pot of Sunday sauce....1 tsp of sugar is nothing in the grand scheme of things....I am curious as to your aversion...did they use more at some point? I will never not make it any other way...I also cook my sauce with hot and sweet italian sausage as well as braciole!

 

 

deliciousness!

[anneofcleves]

I pictured Grandpa hastily stubbing out his 100th Marlboro for the day as the cameras rolled in. Also loved how Ladd and Cowboy Josh showed up in clean crisp clothes with every hair in place. I normally don't think he's that much, but today Ladd looked kinda hot sporting the stubble.

Ha.  I hear you.  It's pretty bad when the best thing you can find in her show is that her husband showered and looked pretty good.  He probably turned all red and sweaty after eating those spicy enchiladas made with not one but FOUR TEASPOONS of chili powder (FOUR!).  Oh wait, he's a cowboy.  They can handle all that heat.

 

Oh, and CMH1981, when I think of the most delicious, and not all that difficult, red enchilada sauce it's all about the peppers.  Every family has their favorite recipe (just think of a bunch of Italian-Americans talking about what makes the best red gravy), but it can be as simple as oil, onion and garlic (sauteed), some broth or water, salt, and a boatload of reconstituted chili peppers (ancho, etc.) all pureed together.  I've had variations with a little tomato or tomato paste that are good, but the chili peppers are the star of the show.  When I order enchiladas at a restaurant and they come out bathed in a heavy, bright red tomato sauce like Ree made I want to cry.

 

And people, let's keep things in perspective about sugar in the pasta sauce.  The real ingredient that makes Ree's spaghetti sauce super delectable and scrumptious is not the sugar, it's that super-secret addition of a jar of store bought pasta sauce!  You may all debate the pros and cons of adding sugar or not, but every cowgirl knows that great spaghetti sauces starts with a jar of spaghetti sauce.  So sayeth the blog. Praise Ree!

Edited June 21, 2015 by anneofcleves

[grisgris]

BWAHHHH!!!!!  AoC, I nearly spit coffee all over my keyboard!

 

I had to pull the "add-a-jar" trick a few months ago. I occasionally help out the elderly parents of my sister's friend with cooking and grocery shopping. One day, the husband wanted spaghetti sauce and the wife (who wasn't feeling well) was sleeping. I ransacked every cupboard and pantry and came up with ground beef and a few cans of diced tomatoes. I couldn't find any onions or garlic or many herbs/spices. As it was the first meal I prepared for them, I didn't want for it to be a big flop. I opened the refrigerator to grab a can of Parm and found a jar of Ragu. Voila!  LOL!

 

Maybe I need to take this post over to the Semi-home made thread! So, would that make Ree plagiarizing Aunt Sandy?

[autumnh]

Ha Gris! so true! LOL 

 

I finally watched the new episode this morning ...more pulled pork and cole slaw? come ON..she just keeps recycling those same recipes.

 

Oh and it is GREASED...not GREAZZED..drive me nuts lol

[Lura]

AND ... I thought if she said, "Those cowboys are gonna LOVE this!" one more time, I'd throw something at the TV screen.  I counted up to four times and then quit.  WHY does she have to keep reassuring us that SHE loves this, LADD loves this, THE KIDS love this, PAW PAW loves this, and COWBOYS love this???  Talk about an ego, and talk about selling something!  Just shut up, Ree, and make the food!

 

The cole slaw and its dressing ranked way up there on her list of losers.  Unless I missed something, the slaw had only cabbage in it.  She said she wanted the dressing not to be as runny as milk.  So she added just a touch of something else, added it to her cup of milk, and poured it in, as runny as milk!  It never would have stuck to that cabbage.  She said she'd stir it up again before she served it. 

 

The thing that really got me was her saying that she was so glad the cowboys would have her cooking because it would save them from going all the way to town for lunch.  Ha!  I'll bet they would have given their eye teeth to have gone to town!  I think the reason Ladd was all cleaned up was because he went into town to the bank -- to pay off the cowboys who said on camera how good Ree's lunch was.  What a loser of a show.

[pandora spocks]

"WHY does she have to keep reassuring us that SHE loves this, LADD loves this, THE KIDS love this, PAW PAW loves this, and COWBOYS love this??? Talk about an ego, and talk about selling something! Just shut up, Ree, and make the food!"

Of course, the "cowboy" lifestyle of the Drummonds is typical of all cowboys...if the wife had her own cooking show, a blog, and wrote cookbooks.

[peacheslatour]

to each his own....even when I went to Naples they used a bit of sugar.....it is all about our personal tastes though! ...although I make a fab Scachatta w/ fresh veggies..I roast my own veggies and bake my own bread...

Although...I think you need to put it into perspective....when making a huge pot of Sunday sauce....1 tsp of sugar is nothing in the grand scheme of things....I am curious as to your aversion...did they use more at some point? I will never not make it any other way...I also cook my sauce with hot and sweet italian sausage as well as braciole!

 

 

deliciousness!

Well, bless your heart.

[grisgris]

"WHY does she have to keep reassuring us that SHE loves this, LADD loves this, THE KIDS love this, PAW PAW loves this, and COWBOYS love this??? Talk about an ego, and talk about selling something! Just shut up, Ree, and make the food!"

 

Well, it's good that Marlboro Sr. and Jr. et al like Ree's food because who else does?

 

Maybe it's a nuance of Pacific Productions that they like for their hostesses to convey a bit of insecurity of vulnerability. Ina is always fussing over Jeffrey and even made a remark once to the tune of "...it better not be with some blonde..." I dunno. I can see Jeffrey being tempted by Yale coeds, but Ladd? Maybe there's a pretty filly or two down at the feed and tackle shop he's giving the side-eye to?

 

At least that would make the show more entertaining...

[Missy Vixen]

We've made her pulled pork before many times. We use the recipe with Dr. Pepper in it. And we use the SMALL can of chipotle peppers in adobo sauce; the large can would make the stuff inedible in our opinion. (We're wimps.) My husband made a double batch of it last year for the office party. He returned home with an empty container and multiple requests for the recipe, so it seems Ree got that one right.

 

I can think of a lot of Food Network personalities that are even more annoying to me than Ree and her family (Guy Fieri. Bobby Flay. Trisha Yearwood, for starters), so it's 22 minutes of somewhat amusing TV for us once a week.

Well, it's good that Marlboro Sr. and Jr. et al like Ree's food because who else does?

The guys at my husband's employer (software company) eat whatever I make from her cookbook like they've never seen food before and they might not again. They're probably relieved that whatever I made doesn't come in a pizza delivery or sandwich box. Of course, IMHO.

[ShellSeeker]

That enchilada sauce KILLED me... there aren't tomatoes in enchilada sauce. Period. 

 

I was interested to see how she'd do this, and my jaw dropped when she added freaking bouillon cubes. What the hell? I make my own, and it does have a little tomato paste in it, along with water and a bunch of other spices. Even if it's not the genuine article, it's still good, and not full of the salt and preservatives that you find in the canned stuff from the grocery store.

[grisgris]

I've made one of Ree's recipes. It was for some noodle dish with ground beef and sour cream. (I think the recipe is a watered-down version of a popular item from a BH&G cookbook back in the late 50's-early 60's that my mom used to make.) Anyway, Ree's version was terrible. It was completely devoid of flavor.

 

I'd pay good money to see Ree guest on "The Kitchen" and have Geoffrey Zakarian be the taster of one of her dishes.

[Qoass]

 

AND ... I thought if she said, "Those cowboys are gonna LOVE this!" one more time, I'd throw something at the TV screen.  I counted up to four times and then quit.  WHY does she have to keep reassuring us that SHE loves this, LADD loves this, THE KIDS love this, PAW PAW loves this, and COWBOYS love this???

 

You really do feel compelled to count, don't you?  I was up to over 40 "justs" but then she talked about the guys "grabbing their pork" and my brain exploded.

 

Okay, that's a wee bit dramatic:  I was doing my yoga warm ups and fell out of plank pose laughing.  No really-- she said that.

[Lisin]

The Enchilada sauce I make is of the Tex Mex variety so I suppose there is probably another version with tomatoes in it... mine is spices, a roux and broth. I generally use beef stock but vegetable or chicken works too. It's either dried chilies ground up or sometimes I re-hydrate them and blend them in, that part mostly depends on how much time I have. Homesick Texan has a good recipe up on her blog if you search Tex Mex Cheese Enchiladas. It's exactly what I want when I want cheese enchiladas... which are literally nothing like what I just watched Ree make. 

[chakajo]

the witch is coming out with another cookbook this October called Pioneer Woman dinner time. I am so tired of hearing the phrase "it can't get any better than this"

[txvoodoo]

I am Italian raised in Brooklyn...I don't know anyone in my family who hasn't put some sugar in marinara (Sunday sauce)..it helps to offset the acidity of tomato...I also ONLY use San Marzano tomatoes...it always makes for a better sauce :)

I'm a Sicilian raised in Philly, and we put no sugar in our gravy, and never have.  I'm using the recipe my grandmother & great grandmother used - going back to 1902, when we came to the US. And my family in Sicily doesn't add sugar, either.

 

The secret is slow and low. Simmer it for a couple of hours, and the carmelization will add its own sweetness. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by txvoodoo

[autumnh]

Well my family is from Naples (Castiellammare 'e Stabia)  and my nonna always used a tablespoon of sugar..it's not like a cup of sugar...and besides..it isn't who is right or wrong...every Nonna has their way :)

[Westiepeach]

I just made sauce today and sugar went in! Not a lot ... but sugar went in.

[anneofcleves]

Such a variety of retreads today from Ree-peat.  {Yawn}

 

-Another braised beef thing (beef thing = short ribs, chuck roast, brisket) with cheese grits.  

-Another breakfast sandwich delivered to cowboys (the biscuits looked good, but I'm sure all of that would in practice become a crumbling, oozing eggy mess to eat in the truck).  

-Another baked pasta recipe that could be found on the back of probably 50% of rigatoni boxes currently in grocery stores.  (Pssst, notice there was no sugar added to the sauce, though she did seem to be using something like Prego which has about a half cup of corn syrup in each jar.  So I guess that's consistent.)

-Another breakfast strata, or some bastard son of a Ree strata.  This one was particularly unusual because:  a) she called it an omelette (just to really confuse the fans who can't cook) and b) it has giant globs of cream cheese scattered throughout (which I think is a lame attempt at going for a goat cheese effect, which I'm sure would make Ladd pee his Levis with displeasure).

 

Anything I missed or blocked out?  

[CMH1981]

The breakfast biscuit looked good, but I too couldn't figure out why you would want an egg w/ runny yolk if it was for on the go?  

 

The brisket looked good, and I couldn't figure out at first why she added the veggies on top, but it made sense when it was supposed to be a dinner and that was one of the sides basically.

[anneofcleves]

Yes, vegetables that have been braised for 7 hours.  I can see having them in the sauce (not sure why she didn't puree them with the liquid), but given how well-cooked they are they're hardly side dish worthy.  

 

But this is a family that rarely eats vegetables much beyond tomatoes and iceberg lettuce.  Unless it's girls' night.

[grisgris]

Ah.... Sheeeeesh. Really, Ree?

 

When Ladd took a big bite out of that heavy, greasy "Sausage McMuffin on the Prairie," and said "Now, this will get you going" my mind went to a different direction.

 

How enthused did Bryce look when Ladd suggested that one day he would take over the cattle feeding... I would just love it if Bryce grew up to be a gay decorator.

 

That pasta dish reminds me of recipes I see on Pinterest from processed foods companies.

 

I don't care for big chunks of cream cheese that is slimy and not melted.

 

Today's episode was brought to you by Reynold's.

[Tahitigirl]

My favorite part was when Ree was talking about how big Bryce was getting and "....before long he'll be feeding by himself."

(Yes, she was referring to the cattle but it sounded so funny!)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Tahitigirl

[3pwood]

How enthused did Bryce look when Ladd suggested that one day he would take over the cattle feeding... I would just love it if Bryce grew up to be a gay decorator.

 

And a vegetarian.

[anneofcleves]

 

How enthused did Bryce look when Ladd suggested that one day he would take over the cattle feeding... I would just love it if Bryce grew up to be a gay decorator.

 

And a vegetarian.

 

Who makes guest appearances on Barefoot Contessa offering wine pairing advice.

Edited June 28, 2015 by anneofcleves

[CMH1981]

 

I don't care for big chunks of cream cheese that is slimy and not melted.

 

That's what that was in the finished pasta dish?  I got bored and turned the channel before she finished that meal b/c I feel as though i've seen her make it many times over.  I kept thinking that was pieces/chunks of butter she threw on it after it came out of the oven.  I like cream cheese, but not in chunks like that.  Ugh...

[grisgris]

Ree put big chunks of mozzarella in the pasta dish. In the strata/omelet hybrid, she used hunks of cream cheese. Since it wasn't incorporated into the dish, the cream cheese was just there in big blobs.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why Ree called that an omelet and how was serving that was supposed to allow people to sleep in? You'd have to get up to put the casserole in the oven, go back to bed for 45 minutes, then go back to the kitchen to remove the foil cover and bake for another 15-20.

 

For me, sleeping in is to get up late and go out to brunch!

 

ETA: Sorry. I meant sleepin' in.

Edited June 28, 2015 by grisgris

[HyeChaps]

And why didn't that cream cheese melt?

[grisgris]

I have no idea. When I was just starting out cooking, I made some cheesecakes that ended up with lumps of cream cheese. I found it was because I didn't use room temp cheese and it wasn't fully incorporated.

 

It wouldn't make sense to beat cream cheese into the stramolet (he!) custard, so I have no earthy idea why that was even an ingredient. I guess, as Ree would say, "Just because she can."????

[HyeChaps]

I guess because it was "decadent".  I now hate that word.

[autumnh]

I DVR'ed it...and when I finally watched it yesterday I thought to myself not another brisket/breakfast sandwich/pasta show..

 

Ree needs to break out of the box and mix it up...and not use recipes from church cookbooks ;)

 

I think it is why I love Ina so much...yes she rehashes recipes but she always makes the components interesting..and her food is easy but elegant. She also uses Rao's jarred marinara at times...but I have been to Rao's...good stuff! 

 

Ree seems to be more of a Ragu girl lol

[Lura]

How enthused did Bryce look when Ladd suggested that one day he would take over the cattle feeding... I would just love it if Bryce grew up to be a gay decorator.

 

And a vegetarian.

 

OMG!  I'm holding my sides!   That is so FUNNY!!!  I think poor "Brycie" is well on his way to being one of them, but I won't say which one!  Mama may regret someday calling them Pagie and Brycie.  Odd that she never fools with Alexie or Toddy.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Lura

[Lura]

Ah.... Sheeeeesh. Really, Ree?

 

When Ladd took a big bite out of that heavy, greasy "Sausage McMuffin on the Prairie," and said "Now, this will get you going" my mind went to a different direction.

 

How enthused did Bryce look when Ladd suggested that one day he would take over the cattle feeding... I would just love it if Bryce grew up to be a gay decorator.

 

That pasta dish reminds me of recipes I see on Pinterest from processed foods companies.

 

I don't care for big chunks of cream cheese that is slimy and not melted.

 

Today's episode was brought to you by Reynold's.

 

Good grief, Grisgris!  You're one laugh after another!  What have you been eating (or sipping)?  LOL  I really thin that you should start your own blog about Ree and family, similar to the one that guy has, making fun of the FN.

[ariel]

I'm a Sicilian raised in Philly, and we put no sugar in our gravy, and never have.  I'm using the recipe my grandmother & great grandmother used - going back to 1902, when we came to the US. And my family in Sicily doesn't add sugar, either.

 

The secret is slow and low. Simmer it for a couple of hours, and the carmelization will add its own sweetness.

I'm from NJ. We also do slow & low. No sugar in our sauce. We add carrots for sweetness if needed. We use fresh carrots, not canned carrots.

Maybe fresh carrots are a little too "organic" for Ree.

Edited June 30, 2015 by ariel

[peacheslatour]

OMG!  I'm holding my sides!   That is so FUNNY!!!  I think poor "Brycie" is well on his way to being one of them, but I won't say which one!  Mama may regret someday calling them Pagie and Brycie.  Odd that she never fools with Alexie or Toddy.

Oh, but she does.  I think the middle girl is going to end up running the ranch and the rest of them are going to get as far away as they possibly can.

[grisgris]

In a situation like that (hypothetical, of course) if the kids all decided, "Hey Ma & Pa, ranchin' just ain't for me" then bolt off to points unknown, then what would Ladd do?

 

I mean, I know that the Drummonds have tons of hired help to work the ranch, that's a given. Would all of those years spent grooming ranchers and ranchettes then be for naught?

[Lura]

Good question, grisgris.  IMHO, I think that as far as Ree is concerned, she would be OK with their being whatever they want to be.  I say that because she, herself, set out to be something else but wound up being what she is.  Wasn't she planning on some occupation when she met Ladd?  I think that Ladd might be a little tougher to convince, though.  He and his brother have followed their father in ranching, and I'm sure he'd like to see at least one of his kids carry the tradition on.  It should be interesting to see how it works out.

 

I've seen tons of new-to-me episodes lately -- Pa Pa's birthday dinner, Ladd's birthday, dinner with her dad and Patsy, etc.  Ree put on quite a spread for the latter episode -- Steak Oscar, enough mushrooms to feed an army, chocolate pot de crème for dessert!  It looked delicious, and her dad seemed to love it.  I thought both her dad and Patsy seemed like nice people.  I can't help wondering what happened to her parents' marriage, but I have to hand it to Ree for being so accepting of Patsy. I think she loves her dad so much that she wants him to be happy, whatever happened.

I'd like to make that steak dish sometime.  Anything with Hollandaise has to be good!

Edited July 2, 2015 by Lura

[mousie]

Oh please, Dad's dinner was filet mignon with shrimp and and a heavy dessert (and I thought he was a cardiologist), father-in-laws dinner was whole roast tenderloins with shrimp. Can she not think of anything else to make.?  And, FN showing these episodes back-to-back was a mistake on FN's part, but I guess it's grilling week or father's day week or some other stupid FN theme.

 

Lura, just buy the book and read her "memoir" and all of your questions will be answered.

[chakajo]

I think her dad looks "suspect."

[txvoodoo]

Well my family is from Naples (Castiellammare 'e Stabia)  and my nonna always used a tablespoon of sugar..it's not like a cup of sugar...and besides..it isn't who is right or wrong...every Nonna has their way :)

Napolitan? Pfft, mainland. ;) 

 

(friendly jab, y'all!)

 

I asked my grandmother once why no sugar, because I had friends' moms who put it in. She said, in the US, sugar was too expensive when they first came here, and in Sicily, it was too rare. They'd get sweetness from the process of cooking, or from fruits in desserts. One thing she taught me was that everything they did had a reason, either in the accessibility of ingredients, or the cost. We came from peasants, and then they had the Depression when the moved here. 

 

The good thing is that I learned from her how to cook delicious stuff on a budget! 

[Lillybee]

I caught her pot roast episode yesterday, OMFG, could she dumb down pot roast any more. It consisted of a chuck roast, carrots and onions with some rosemary and thyme for flavor.  She finished by cutting up the pot roast and putting it in the cooking liquid. Since she used a chuck roast that cooking liquid had to be extremely greasy. I am not so sure that she can really cook.

[grisgris]

Ah, the epic 4th of July episode with Ladd drowning perfectly good tenderloins in vats of butter and seasoning salt. Memories...

[Lura]

Ah, yes, the obligatory 4th of July episode in which we're treated to watch yet another "feed the town folk" spectacles.  Nobody in Pawtuska would eat if it weren't for Ree.  I just knew that Ladd would barely warm those steaks to make sure they would be raw inside.  It was not the right day for folks with a sweet tooth since only two people brought desserts.  Ree, with her love of sweets, really struck out. 

[maggiemae]

To me, Ladd's steaks always look limp and pale.....and he never let's them rest.

[grisgris]

I'd rather watch Semi-Homemade with Aunt Sandy whipping up some booze-laden concoction on the beach. At least that would be entertaining.

[novhappy]

Lol at that citrus bundt cake! Using an elaborate (and expensive) bundt pan she turns out a gorgeous cake (albeit made with soda). The sloppily and crappily pours sugar icing all over it. Obscuring the beautiful nooks and peaks of the cake. Hahahahaha

[anneofcleves]

Lol at that citrus bundt cake! Using an elaborate (and expensive) bundt pan she turns out a gorgeous cake (albeit made with soda). The sloppily and crappily pours sugar icing all over it. Obscuring the beautiful nooks and peaks of the cake. Hahahahaha

I had that same reaction when I saw that episode.  She put enough icing on that cake to gag even the most die hard sugar addict.  To her credit she did not top it with chopped up Snickers bars and Reeses pieces, which I think demonstrated incredible restraint on her part.

[Lura]

The pie episode had me salivating because there's nothing in the world I love more than a piece of pie.  I envisioned three two-crust pies -- like apple, cherry and another -- but it didn't turn out that way.  Her apple pie had too many apples in it, and then I thought she'd never stop adding sugary junk to the top of it.  The caramel sauce might have been good, but the other additions were only there to satisfy her sweet tooth and to give the kids their daily sugar high, I felt.  So much for a yummy, healthy apple pie!

 

The grasshopper pie didn't appeal to me because I only want mint in something very, very rarely.  Plus, it was a no-bake pie.  Quick and easy, per Ree.  The last "pie" was gallettes, sloppy little things that barely qualified. I was all set to give three cheers for Ree, but instead, it was a letdown.

 

Re Ree's sweet tooth:  I would like to buy Ree ten bags of every kind of candy in the store, then sit her in a corner and make her eat it all until she was green around the gills. Maybe that would turn her off of feeding herself and Ladd and the kids all that sugar!   I've read about sugar addictions, and I swear Ree has one.  No wonder the occasional plate of vegetables tastes so good to her!

[Lura]

Today was a rerun of sports day with plenty of footage of Coach Ladd, Todd's football team and Bryce's football team.  Besides the boys' playoff games, we got to see Ree driving the girls two hours away to their soccer game.  Ree made Breakfast of Champions sandwiches (eggs and sausage between an English muffin) wrapped in foil for the journeys, and Everything Cookies with everything in them, also to take along.  That was it.  We heard Ladd yell "That was a good one!" every time a boy did something right, and Ree did her best to act like this was the most exciting weekend she had ever spent.  *rolling my eyes*  That was it.  Another show under her belt.  The boys each won their games, but I don't know how the girls did.  I nodded off before their game happened.  Ree worked so hard trying to be an enthusiastic sports mom that it wore me out.

[CMH1981]

So in that Asian vegetable/noodle salad Ree made, wouldn't she need to...I don't know, cut up the noodles somewhat?  When she tried tossing those noodles on top of those veggies all I could think was you will never be able to blend all that together w/ those noodles long like that.

 

Why is it on this show when she chops up veggies or whatever is non-meat, it seems like she leaves most of it on the counter.  I notice this on ATK/Cook's Country as well.  

 

Boy she really did "eye-ball" that dressing.  She was nowhere near the amounts she told us for each ingredient in that dressing.

 

That tip about for a party/get-together having each person bring one veggie to add to the salad was stupid, and just seemed like a cheapskate move imo.

 

It did look like a good salad though.

 

So she switched b/t the lodge and her house for filming this episode?  The house is the one where she has the drawers for the sugar, flour, etc...

 

I really bet that small amount of orange zest was spread throughout that crust. 

 

Ree did the same damn thing w/those egg yolks for that custard, she left a lot of those yolks in that bowl.

 

I couldn't believe she actually said to add red food dye to that ice cream.

 

This woman can't eye-ball for shit?!  That was way more than 1/4 of that ginger-syrup.  Oh well...