Original Flavor Season Talk: Dinner at Rodbell's

[Mmmfloorpie]

17 hours ago, janie jones said:

Well, I'm not familiar with the scene in question, but it sounds to me like this person doesn't actually think it's a nice place, and once they start talking they realize they don't want to refer to it as a house or "home," so they say "place."

Thanks for that.

[bigskygirl]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:21 PM, Bastet said:

She wasn't just answering phones, she was also sweeping up hair (and then promoted to shampooing it), making coffee, washing towels, etc.  She was the low woman on the totem pole, and I can see how that felt worse in a way than the Chicken Divine job, where at least everyone but The Little Maggot was at the same level, and I also understand why she wound up staying with the salon job for a while despite that, because of how her boss and co-workers treated her. 

The arc made sense to me - being reluctant to take the job (especially given how beaten down she was by her post-Wellman attempts at employment), deciding to take it because she liked the camaraderie despite the job itself, and eventually deciding to move on to a server job, where she'd once again be an equal to her co-worker and would make more in tips based on volume.

I do not think Roseanne was making more money as a waitress than she did at the beauty salon. She was an equal at the salon, and the staff treated her well compared to her relationship with Leon at the restaurant she was working at. She was making $10.00 a hour with tips at the salon compared to probably minimum wage and tips at the other place. She had plenty of chances of advancement at the salon compared to the restaurant.

[BitterApple]

I was just watching the episode where Becky writes Darlene's paper and Roseanne is making a huge deal out of Darlene getting a B. She wants to buy a cake and have a party, then when Darlene reveals the truth Jackie screws her face up, looks disdainfully at Becky and says "you only got a B?". Lulz!

[readster]

7 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I do not think Roseanne was making more money as a waitress than she did at the beauty salon. She was an equal at the salon, and the staff treated her well compared to her relationship with Leon at the restaurant she was working at. She was making $10.00 a hour with tips at the salon compared to probably minimum wage and tips at the other place. She had plenty of chances of advancement at the salon compared to the restaurant.

Yes, I hated when Roseanne left the salon because she was moving forward with things. She was even starting to do hair and other things that could have lead to her getting a cosmotology license, but that would mean Roseanne would have to get more education and stuff. That can never happen to Roseanne, remember: "Don't live beyond your education." 

[Mmmfloorpie]

46 minutes ago, readster said:

Yes, I hated when Roseanne left the salon because she was moving forward with things. She was even starting to do hair and other things that could have lead to her getting a cosmotology license, but that would mean Roseanne would have to get more education and stuff. That can never happen to Roseanne, remember: "Don't live beyond your education." 

I've talked about this a few times.

Hair salon = classic sitcom tropes. It was like an old WW2 movie with an ensemble of broadly drawn characters. The ditzy blonde, the kind of kooky older woman boss, the ethnic stereotype who is actually the most normal, eccentric and oblivious rich woman and former boss to Roseanne, and, a revolving door of "characters du jour" of salon clients. Plus, it gave Crystal something to do.

Imagine the show like this for 9 years? It would be like every other lousy sitcom.

Yes, it was better for the character to stay, but her leaving was better for the audience.

In the season 2 hiatus, Roseanne consolidated power and took control of the show. Fired all the salon actors (and a lot of people behind the cameras) and decided she wanted to have the character work as a waitress.

Roseanne the person credits working in a bar as her launching pad to doing stand up. She had a great raport with the barflies and they had a great comedic back and forth.

This is what she was comfortable with and was what she wanted to do on the show. Look at her character at Rodbells. Fires off a bunch of smart alec quips with the customers and employees.

[bigskygirl]

12 hours ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

I've talked about this a few times.

Hair salon = classic sitcom tropes. It was like an old WW2 movie with an ensemble of broadly drawn characters. The ditzy blonde, the kind of kooky older woman boss, the ethnic stereotype who is actually the most normal, eccentric and oblivious rich woman and former boss to Roseanne, and, a revolving door of "characters du jour" of salon clients. Plus, it gave Crystal something to do.

Imagine the show like this for 9 years? It would be like every other lousy sitcom.

Yes, it was better for the character to stay, but her leaving was better for the audience.

In the season 2 hiatus, Roseanne consolidated power and took control of the show. Fired all the salon actors (and a lot of people behind the cameras) and decided she wanted to have the character work as a waitress.

Roseanne the person credits working in a bar as her launching pad to doing stand up. She had a great raport with the barflies and they had a great comedic back and forth.

This is what she was comfortable with and was what she wanted to do on the show. Look at her character at Rodbells. Fires off a bunch of smart alec quips with the customers and employees.

I do not think it was better for the audience. In my opinion, the show took a major nose dive when Becky started dating Mark, Jackie left the police force, Dan brought the motor cycle shop, and Roseanne took the waitress job. Bonnie was okay as a friend, but I could not stand Leon and Roseanne together. I thought the hair salon characters were a lot better than the characters at the restaurant except for Bonnie. And no offense to Rosanne, but usually a waitress with her attitude would not hold on to her job long aka the department managers did not want to hire her because of her attitude and work ethic.

[peacheslatour]

I agree that the show lost a step when Becky started dating Mark but we sure got a lot of hilarity out of the birth control s/l and Lecy wanted to go to college so eloping with Mark was a good way to explain her absence for a while. The hair salon was too skewed towards women. Roseanne likes to joke around with men and kids too and there wouldn't be any men or kids around in the salon situation. It was just too limiting and like mmmfloorpie said, it was too much the standard sit com trope for a groundbreaking show like Roseanne.

Edited May 12, 2018 by peacheslatour

[bigskygirl]

I did like the one scene when Dan brought the kids into the salon for haircuts. The women made him feel so uncomfortable. Ha!

[readster]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

I do not think it was better for the audience. In my opinion, the show took a major nose dive when Becky started dating Mark, Jackie left the police force, Dan brought the motor cycle shop, and Roseanne took the waitress job. Bonnie was okay as a friend, but I could not stand Leon and Roseanne together. I thought the hair salon characters were a lot better than the characters at the restaurant except for Bonnie. And no offense to Rosanne, but usually a waitress with her attitude would not hold on to her job long aka the department managers did not want to hire her because of her attitude and work ethic.

Problem is looking at where the revival is now. Jackie becoming a life coach, we saw where doing this major: "They were too stable and we had to shake things up, because people make poor decisions all the time." The problem with Mark was until they brought in David and their home life, Mark and Becky came off as the cliche: "Good Girl dates the Bad Boy, who is misunderstood" troupe. I had no problem with Mark saying he never forced Becky with her decisions, but at the same time he never went: "You know Becky, you are making too many sacrifices for me, we have to think ahead." Or with Dan with the bike shop, seeing how it wouldn't work with Ziggy, but hey put up the house on a second mortgage and so forth and here is an extra $30K from Ziggy and yep, you can now have the bike shop. Then Jackie about how much she couldn't do a desktop job as a cop. Then what did she work all this time? Truck driver, co-owner of a dinner and then now years later a life coach. So, yeah glad she couldn't "survive" at a desk job. 

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

The hair salon was too skewed towards women. Roseanne likes to joke around with men and kids too and there wouldn't be any men or kids around in the salon situation.

I agree: neither Roseanne B. nor Roseanne C. would be content for long in an all-female work environment. Especially a hair salon in 1990's Lanford, designed around traditional ideas of what women should look like, and how much they should care. Both Roseannes speak up for women yet seem, instinctively, to empathize with men as their real peers and competition. They like to mix it up with men: to rouse grudging male admiration, and trounce hostile men like hecklers. 

[bigskygirl]

30 minutes ago, readster said:

Problem is looking at where the revival is now. Jackie becoming a life coach, we saw where doing this major: "They were too stable and we had to shake things up, because people make poor decisions all the time." The problem with Mark was until they brought in David and their home life, Mark and Becky came off as the cliche: "Good Girl dates the Bad Boy, who is misunderstood" troupe. I had no problem with Mark saying he never forced Becky with her decisions, but at the same time he never went: "You know Becky, you are making too many sacrifices for me, we have to think ahead." Or with Dan with the bike shop, seeing how it wouldn't work with Ziggy, but hey put up the house on a second mortgage and so forth and here is an extra $30K from Ziggy and yep, you can now have the bike shop. Then Jackie about how much she couldn't do a desktop job as a cop. Then what did she work all this time? Truck driver, co-owner of a dinner and then now years later a life coach. So, yeah glad she couldn't "survive" at a desk job. 

The thing is if Jackie would have work hard in order to heal from her back injury, she not of been behind a desk as a cop. I know this is a television show instead of real lifer, but I have seen and heard of officers who were in worse shape than Jackie was who because of hard work and willing to go the extra mile were able to go back on patrol. She just decided to whin about it instead of willing to do the hard work in order to become a patrol officer again.

If Roseanne wanted to joke around men and even kids, she would have gotten a job where men work or brought in their kids. Bring in kids for her kids to be friends with. Plus the fact she blame Dan for not getting the job at the meat packing place. No Roseanne, you did it to yourself. You could have taken computer classes, update your business skills etc. etc. while raising a family. Millions of mothers do it everyday even in the early 1990's. She could have been the bookkeeper or help run the business side of the salon and have to work or deal with men to do so.

[CherryAmes]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:21 AM, Bastet said:

She wasn't just answering phones, she was also sweeping up hair (and then promoted to shampooing it), making coffee, washing towels, etc.  She was the low woman on the totem pole, and I can see how that felt worse in a way than the Chicken Divine job, where at least everyone but The Little Maggot was at the same level, and I also understand why she wound up staying with the salon job for a while despite that, because of how her boss and co-workers treated her. 

The arc made sense to me - being reluctant to take the job (especially given how beaten down she was by her post-Wellman attempts at employment), deciding to take it because she liked the camaraderie despite the job itself, and eventually deciding to move on to a server job, where she'd once again be an equal to her co-worker and would make more in tips based on volume.

There were a lot of things they had the Connors do that I didn't agree with but I completely understood Roseanne's feelings about working at the hair salon.  Sure it was a nicer place to work than that fast food place but it was also a place where she really felt like she'd hit rock bottom.  She didn't take that job because she wanted to work her way up to being a hairdresser or whatever she took it because at that moment in time it was the only job she could get.  Sweeping up hair.  Didn't matter what else she did.  I'd have felt exactly the same.

[bigskygirl]

48 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

There were a lot of things they had the Connors do that I didn't agree with but I completely understood Roseanne's feelings about working at the hair salon.  Sure it was a nicer place to work than that fast food place but it was also a place where she really felt like she'd hit rock bottom.  She didn't take that job because she wanted to work her way up to being a hairdresser or whatever she took it because at that moment in time it was the only job she could get.  Sweeping up hair.  Didn't matter what else she did.  I'd have felt exactly the same.

So working for minimum wage plus tips and working with a guy like Leon was not hitting rock bottom. She had chances for advancement at the salon. Yes, she did not have to become a hairdresser, but she could have learn the business side of it (bookkeeping, ordering supplies, etc. etc.) She was not able to move up at all as a waitress especially when we found out none of the department managers would not hire her because of her crappy attitude and work ethics. She could have improve her career skills, but she wanted to take the easy way out and blame others like Dan and the sweeping hair at the salon and taking dead end job like a waitress and insulting the department managers and Leon to the point where no one else wanted to hire her.

[Bastet]

14 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

but she could have learn the business side of it (bookkeeping, ordering supplies, etc. etc.)

How?  There was zero indication Marsha wanted/intended to step back from her duties; in fact, coming into the salon seemed a tremendously important part of her life, between the socialization and her obsession with dead Arthur.  She wouldn't be hiring anyone, even Roseanne, to do part of her job any time soon.

And, going back to whether it's logical for Roseanne to feel the way she did about the job to begin with, I think the fact that, even in a town like Lanford, Roseanne was the only one who applied for the job, speaks to how shitty a job sweeping up hair (especially the hair of your friends in a small town) is to many people and shows she certainly wasn't alone in feeling that way.

[CherryAmes]

49 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

So working for minimum wage plus tips and working with a guy like Leon was not hitting rock bottom.

She didn't have second sight, when she took the job at Rodbells she may not have been happy about it but it offered her more than she thought the salon did.  I think because mainly that she was doing the same work, more or less, that everyone else was doing there.  I totally agree with what I think is your main point and that is no matter where she worked she brought her crappy attitude along and that meant sooner or later she would be screwed.  It is interesting that at the hair salon she didn't descend to the same level of Attitude that she did at Rodbells and even with her own business later on.  Which is a whole 'nother thing.  How on earth did that place stay in business (at least through the original run of the show) with someone like Roseanne at the helm?  Just did not compute!

[peacheslatour]

Plus it's not like Leon was the big bad wolf. He pretty much let her come and go as she pleased, work whatever hours she wanted and be her typically surly self with the customers. Most places would have fired her ass. He was her friend, he tried to help her get another job at Rodbells and choreograph his wedding. She liked working at Rodbells for the employee discount and being in the mall she could see her kids. The salon was a dead end and she knew it.

[bigskygirl]

22 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

She didn't have second sight, when she took the job at Rodbells she may not have been happy about it but it offered her more than she thought the salon did.  I think because mainly that she was doing the same work, more or less, that everyone else was doing there.  I totally agree with what I think is your main point and that is no matter where she worked she brought her crappy attitude along and that meant sooner or later she would be screwed.  It is interesting that at the hair salon she didn't descend to the same level of Attitude that she did at Rodbells and even with her own business later on.  Which is a whole 'nother thing.  How on earth did that place stay in business (at least through the original run of the show) with someone like Roseanne at the helm?  Just did not compute!

Maybe this is why it went under and is not being mentioned so far on the new show.

Leon did get on her case the one time when she was going to Las Vegas with Dan, and he said no you need to come in because we need you. I was surprised he let her come back at all. Maybe they were desperate for someone, so she got hired. And I still do not see how the diner was better for her in the long run. How was working with a bunch of nice ladies who wanted her to improve on the job, give her a decent wage, was willing to work around her husband and kids,  treat her well will with the opportunity of advancement later on (moving from sweeping up hair to getting the customers ready for their appointment) to possibly learning the business side of the salon, is worse than working in a small diner where you have to deal with bratty kids, rude customers and Leon with less pay and no opportunity for advancement.

Edited May 12, 2018 by bigskygirl

[Pallas]

27 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

...working in a small diner where you have to deal with bratty kids, rude customers and Leon with less pay and no opportunity for advancement.

Because it had all the comforts of home. 

[BitterApple]

Personally I would rather be a salon receptionist than waitress in a mall diner, but I do have to admit Roseanne played off better against Bonnie and Leon than she did the ladies at the salon. Bonnie was the type of woman Roseanne would be friends with while the ladies at the salon would be co-workers and that's about it. It might have just come down to there being more opportunity for interesting storylines at the restaurant than there were at the beauty parlor. 

One of my favorite Rodbell's episodes was when Roseanne had to take the lie detector test and she outed Leon as gay. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by BitterApple

[CherryAmes]

I just don't remember Roseanne being the receptionist.  She answered the phone now and then but mostly she swept floors and then she got promoted to shampoo girl.  Maybe the biggest reason I understood how Roseanne felt is because when I was growing up that kind of job was what you hired a teenager to do - usually a teenager who wanted to be a hairdresser.  It wasn't something women in their 40s did.  I freely admit that economic times have changed A LOT since I was a teenager but I'm betting for Roseanne that's part of what her problem with that job was.  It was a "Saturday job".

[Bastet]

Rodbell's also provided better opportunities for other characters to drop by; they go to the mall a lot more often than they go to the hair salon, so if episode after episode some combination of the kids, Jackie, Crystal, Dan, etc. drop by Roseanne's work, it makes a lot more sense than if that keeps happening at the hair salon.  It's also easier for her to talk to them while working at Rodbell's than it is at the salon.

8 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

One of my favorite Rodbell's episodes was when Roseanne had to take the lie detector test and she outed Leon as gay. 

"Oh, I know what this is all about -- you're trying to scrounge up some dirt on Leon just because he's gay.  I ought to call the ACLU, because this is totally un-American.  I won't help you in your little witch hunt, no crappy job is worth that.  [awkward pause]  You did know he was gay, didn't you?"
"No."
"Well, he's not!"

And I like when Dan asks her if she still has a job, and she responds, "What does it matter, I can't ever go back there again ... 'cause I cracked.  I turned myself in, and then I ratted out all my friends."
 

[Annber03]

38 minutes ago, Bastet said:

"Oh, I know what this is all about -- you're trying to scrounge up some dirt on Leon just because he's gay.  I ought to call the ACLU, because this is totally un-American.  I won't help you in your little witch hunt, no crappy job is worth that.  [awkward pause]  You did know he was gay, didn't you?"
"No."
"Well, he's not!"

I like how she glances at the lie detector as she says "Well, he's not!" and then the frown she gets on her face afterward. 

[bigskygirl]

2 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

I just don't remember Roseanne being the receptionist.  She answered the phone now and then but mostly she swept floors and then she got promoted to shampoo girl.  Maybe the biggest reason I understood how Roseanne felt is because when I was growing up that kind of job was what you hired a teenager to do - usually a teenager who wanted to be a hairdresser.  It wasn't something women in their 40s did.  I freely admit that economic times have changed A LOT since I was a teenager but I'm betting for Roseanne that's part of what her problem with that job was.  It was a "Saturday job".

There are other jobs to do at a salon instead of just be a hairdresser. She had a chance to learn the business side of it. She did not want to better herself, but she certainly blame others for not getting better jobs. She could went back to school and take business classes. The local job service would have help her with it. It could have been a much better story line because she could have met all types of people, young and old, plus find a decent job with benefits instead of a dead end waitress job where she has no chance of opportunities because of lousy work skills and attitude.

Edited May 13, 2018 by bigskygirl

[BitterApple]

Did they ever give any explanation as to why they wrote Bonnie off the show? I'm just wondering if Roseanne was done with the character or whether the actress didn't want to continue with the role. It would've been much more fun having her at the Lunch Box instead of Nancy. 

Which leads to my other favorite Rodbell's scene: the one where Jackie reveals she slept with Arnie.

[Bronzedog]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

 

Which leads to my other favorite Rodbell's scene: the one where Jackie reveals she slept with Arnie.

That was a great scene.  Jackie says something like, "Oh for God's sake, Bonnie!  People rob banks all the time!  I slept with Arnie!"  And, every one gasps and comforts Roseanne.  

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bronzedog
Spelling

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

That was a great scene.  Jackie says something like, "Oh for God's sake, Bonnie!  People rob banks all the time!  I slept with Arnie!"  And, every one grasps and comforts Roseanne.  

I love when everyone shifts to Roseanne, as the final insult to poor Jackie:

"Do you realize when everybody in this town sees me, they're going to say, 'There goes the sister of the woman who slept with Arnie'?"

And, when she first spills her secret, Jackie's great little rant in response to being asked what the hell she was thinking:  "I was thinking that I just lost a great guy like Gary, and now he's gone, and I'll never find another great guy.  I'm 36 years old, I've got flabby arms and a pelican neck, all my house planets are dead, and no one loves me.  But what difference does that make? Everything in my life sucks."

With a few exceptions, Jackie was always so much more bearable in her "I need a man!" nonsense than Crystal was.  Because, when push came to shove, at least Jackie realized it was better not to be in a relationship than to be in one that wasn't right.  But to Crystal, just about any man was better than no man.

[Mmmfloorpie]

About Roseanne having more career advancement at the salon than Rodbells...

I think it's a mistake to assume that Roseanne's character wanted to advance.

I know we think of Roseanne Bar as progressive and "liberated" woman, but that's not how she portrayed Roseanne Conner.

In all the season 2 episodes that involve her finding a new job, her need to be at home with the kids nights and weekends took precedent. 

In season 3, she tells Becky's principal that she doesn't have a career, she has a job. Her kids are her career.

When she goes to Darlene's home ec class, she does so primarily because she percieves Dan being invited to speak as a diminution of the value of a wife and mother.

In season 4, it's revealed that Roseanne is part time at Rodbell's and "comes and goes as she pleases." She likes working there because it fits her schedule. As a luncheonette, I presumed it wasn't open for dinner and that's why closing time seemed to be around 5-6pm.

Seasons 2-3 Dan was consistently employed and always had jobs lined up. He was clearly the breadwinner and Roseanne worked mostly to supplement the family income and for the social element. She wasn't looking for job advancement or s career. Just for something to provide a bit of money and get her out of the house.

In season 5 on the other hand, Roseanne Arnold seemed to have realized "hey, the show is called Roseanne, not Dan so why is it about him owning a business. It should be about me owning a business!" and Roseanne the character had higher aspirations.

[BitterApple]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

And, when she first spills her secret, Jackie's great little rant in response to being asked what the hell she was thinking:  "I was thinking that I just lost a great guy like Gary, and now he's gone, and I'll never find another great guy.  I'm 36 years old, I've got flabby arms and a pelican neck, all my house planets are dead, and no one loves me.  But what difference does that make? Everything in my life sucks."

 

Yesss!!! Laurie was so brilliant in that scene, and for as much as people hated Tom Arnold he had some funny moments as well. Like the one where Dan got hurt when the wrecking ball hit the porta potty. Dan tells the family how awkward it was for everyone to be surrounding him while he had his pants around his ankles and Arnie goes "fortunately I had the presence of mind to start the applause." I felt like the show had the strongest writing during the years Roseanne was with Tom.

[SmithW6079]

7 hours ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

I know we think of Roseanne Bar as progressive and "liberated" woman, but that's not how she portrayed Roseanne Conner.

Not anymore.

[bigskygirl]

8 hours ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

About Roseanne having more career advancement at the salon than Rodbells...

I think it's a mistake to assume that Roseanne's character wanted to advance.

I know we think of Roseanne Bar as progressive and "liberated" woman, but that's not how she portrayed Roseanne Conner.

In all the season 2 episodes that involve her finding a new job, her need to be at home with the kids nights and weekends took precedent. 

In season 3, she tells Becky's principal that she doesn't have a career, she has a job. Her kids are her career.

When she goes to Darlene's home ec class, she does so primarily because she percieves Dan being invited to speak as a diminution of the value of a wife and mother.

In season 4, it's revealed that Roseanne is part time at Rodbell's and "comes and goes as she pleases." She likes working there because it fits her schedule. As a luncheonette, I presumed it wasn't open for dinner and that's why closing time seemed to be around 5-6pm.

Seasons 2-3 Dan was consistently employed and always had jobs lined up. He was clearly the breadwinner and Roseanne worked mostly to supplement the family income and for the social element. She wasn't looking for job advancement or s career. Just for something to provide a bit of money and get her out of the house.

In season 5 on the other hand, Roseanne Arnold seemed to have realized "hey, the show is called Roseanne, not Dan so why is it about him owning a business. It should be about me owning a business!" and Roseanne the character had higher aspirations.

She was able to work around her own schedule when she worked at the salon. I also do not see Roseanne having high aspirations when she was a part owner of the diner because of her poor attitude and work ethics. I also did not see Roseanne as progressive and a liberated woman especially after she left the salon. I hated it she turn the show into women are better than men show. She dumbed the men, Becky and Jackie and was turning Darlene into a younger version of her.

[Pallas]

Time to move on from Roseanne Conner's resume. Still open season on other aspects of the character, the writing and the show. 

[SparklesBitch]

17 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Did they ever give any explanation as to why they wrote Bonnie off the show? I'm just wondering if Roseanne was done with the character or whether the actress didn't want to continue with the role. It would've been much more fun having her at the Lunch Box instead of Nancy. 

Yes!! I loved Bonnie and definitely agree that she would have been fun to have around the Lunch Box. I never warmed to Nancy. She was good for a few laughs, but she was so one note, they never fleshed her out as a character. She was so self-absorbed too. Ugh. That episode where she’s all upset because she thinks Dan doesn’t like her drives me crazy. He was perfectly polite to her and to me, that’s all that should be required of people. Nobody has to like everyone, even if that person is your wife’s friend. Basic human kindness is what’s expected and that’s how Dan acted. That should have been enough. 

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

And, when she first spills her secret, Jackie's great little rant in response to being asked what the hell she was thinking:  "I was thinking that I just lost a great guy like Gary, and now he's gone, and I'll never find another great guy.  I'm 36 years old, I've got flabby arms and a pelican neck, all my house planets are dead, and no one loves me.  But what difference does that make? Everything in my life sucks."

With a few exceptions, Jackie was always so much more bearable in her "I need a man!" nonsense than Crystal was.  Because, when push came to shove, at least Jackie realized it was better not to be in a relationship than to be in one that wasn't right.  But to Crystal, just about any man was better than no man.

That was an awesome scene! Not going to lie, I’ve used a paraphrased version of that rant in my own life. Nobody ever gets it, but it amuses me, so that’s enough. Lol! 

As for Crystal and Jackie, I totally agree! I had a lot of respect for Jackie in that she seemed perfectly fine being alone (for the most part) and not being desperate enough to stay in a relationship just to have any man. I mean sure, she’d complain about being single every now and again (see awesome rant above) like everyone does, but at least she had some self respect. She could function perfectly fine as an adult human without having some guy around. 

Crystal made me cringe because her whole attitude toward relationships could be summed up by the one quote from one of the first season episodes (don’t remember which one) where Jackie accuses Roseanne of waking up on the wrong side of the bed and Crystal chimes in something like “there’s no wrong side of the bed when there’s a man in it.” She couldn’t be alone. She needed a man, any man would do. Then she wouldn’t listen to Dan’s warnings about his dad.....I spent a lot of time just wanting to slap Crystal upside the head all Moonstruck style: “Snap out of it!!” 

Edited May 13, 2018 by SparklesBitch
Past tense vs present tense gets me every time...

[bigskygirl]

I think Crystal had the secret hots for Dan, and it played a role in her marrying his dad (along with her being pregnant when she got married.)

Edited May 13, 2018 by bigskygirl

[ThatsDarling]

20 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Did they ever give any explanation as to why they wrote Bonnie off the show? I'm just wondering if Roseanne was done with the character or whether the actress didn't want to continue with the role. It would've been much more fun having her at the Lunch Box instead of Nancy. 

Which leads to my other favorite Rodbell's scene: the one where Jackie reveals she slept with Arnie.

Bonnie was my favorite of Roseanne's friends and co-workers. Her performance felt very lived-in and her singing was superb. 

Her departure may have had to do with wanting to prioritize the bigger personalities on the show as the show shifted in tone from being naturalistic to more exaggerated. Moreover, Bonnie Bramlett is primarily known as a recording artist and songwriter (she co-wrote "Superstar," popularized by The Carpenters) and may have chosen to focus on her music career after S4. 

I would love to see her appear on the next season of the revival, ideally to sing a full-length version of "You Really Got a Hold on Me." 

[Bastet]

8 minutes ago, SparklesBitch said:

Crystal made me cringe because her whole attitude toward relationships could be summed up by the one quote from one of the first season episodes (don’t remember which one) where Jackie accuses Roseanne of waking up on the wrong side of the bed and Crystal chimes in something like “there’s no wrong side of the bed when there’s a man in it.” She couldn’t be alone. She needed a man, any man would do. Then she wouldn’t listen to Dan’s warnings about his dad.....I spent a lot of time just wanting to slap Crystal upside the head all Moonstruck style: “Snap out of it!!” 

Crystal was pathetic when it came to men (and annoying as hell when it came to just about anything else).  And I tried to be sympathetic to her, because there were institutional reasons for that beyond the individual personality traits, but she was exhausting in her neediness; I cannot imagine being friends with someone like that without at some point going Moonstruck on her!

[peacheslatour]

"Crystal, your problem is self esteem."

"Oh, I never had any of that."

Also Bonnie Bramlett wrote Superstar with Leon Russell.

[bigskygirl]

Jackie started getting needy after she left the police force. I hated the fact they had to dumb her up later in the series. She would have been one of the many characters I would have wanted to slap and tell her to snap out of it.

[Dee]

Jackie was needy before the police force. Wasn't one of the huge issues in Jackie & Gary's relationship that she refused to speak up for herself, because she was so desperate to maintain a relationship?

[peacheslatour]

Yes. She was Perfect Jackie.

[JAYJAY1979]

I didn't mind Roseanne leaving the salon.. but her attitude wasn't suited for a waitress job.. she would have worked better bar tending at the Lobo where she could have made more in tips then she did as a waitress.. and Bonnie could have still been there as a co worker.

Since it's Mother's Day.. watching the Mother's Day episode... Roseanne is good with drama and shows she had natural acting instincts and choose the right moments to use them.  Still think it's horrible what Becky/Darlene did (and it's kind of fitting that Darlene has a demon for a daughter that makes both her and Becky seem like good girls in comparison LOL)

[readster]

9 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I didn't mind Roseanne leaving the salon.. but her attitude wasn't suited for a waitress job.. she would have worked better bar tending at the Lobo where she could have made more in tips then she did as a waitress.. and Bonnie could have still been there as a co worker.

Since it's Mother's Day.. watching the Mother's Day episode... Roseanne is good with drama and shows she had natural acting instincts and choose the right moments to use them.  Still think it's horrible what Becky/Darlene did (and it's kind of fitting that Darlene has a demon for a daughter that makes both her and Becky seem like good girls in comparison LOL)

I love Dan's smack down in the episode too. I mean he basically said: "Why did you think this was going to work in the long run? You both know better." I remember my mother saying originally: "Finally, a parent who tells the sitcom daughters their crazy schemes are stupid and why do you think they are always going to work when they don't." These days, we see sitcom kids getting away with murder still.

[Mmmfloorpie]

On 13/05/2018 at 10:13 AM, bigskygirl said:

She was able to work around her own schedule when she worked at the salon. I also do not see Roseanne having high aspirations when she was a part owner of the diner because of her poor attitude and work ethics. I also did not see Roseanne as progressive and a liberated woman especially after she left the salon. I hated it she turn the show into women are better than men show. She dumbed the men, Becky and Jackie and was turning Darlene into a younger version of her.

Roseanne Bar was progressive and liberated. But Roseanne Conner was played pretty straight blue collar until later seasons. 

She might have taken the diner for granted after it opened but she had high aspirations about having her own business and making it a reality.

[FairyDusted]

On 5/10/2018 at 9:50 AM, Mmmfloorpie said:

Guess no one else gets it either lol.

It was in the Diner. Cousin Ronnie was looking for something to say something nice about. 

[Neko]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:49 PM, CherryAmes said:

I just don't remember Roseanne being the receptionist.  She answered the phone now and then but mostly she swept floors and then she got promoted to shampoo girl.  Maybe the biggest reason I understood how Roseanne felt is because when I was growing up that kind of job was what you hired a teenager to do - usually a teenager who wanted to be a hairdresser.  It wasn't something women in their 40s did.  I freely admit that economic times have changed A LOT since I was a teenager but I'm betting for Roseanne that's part of what her problem with that job was.  It was a "Saturday job".

This is exactly the job I had when I was 14.  On Saturdays.  So, yeah, I understand why Roseanne left to be a waitress.

[bigskygirl]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:36 PM, Mmmfloorpie said:

Roseanne Bar was progressive and liberated. But Roseanne Conner was played pretty straight blue collar until later seasons. 

She might have taken the diner for granted after it opened but she had high aspirations about having her own business and making it a reality.

Roseanne thought she was the boss at the diner, and she expected everyone to listen to her ideas. Leon came in with better ideas for the diner, but Roseanne did not care for it. Her idea of having her own business was only if she could run the whole show.

[BlossomCulp]

On 5/13/2018 at 11:43 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

I didn't mind Roseanne leaving the salon.. but her attitude wasn't suited for a waitress job.. she would have worked better bar tending at the Lobo where she could have made more in tips then she did as a waitress.. and Bonnie could have still been there as a co worker.

This was an aspect of the show that I thought was well done.  Roseanne Conner was not the kind of person who should have been working in any kind of customer service job.  The factory job at Wellman's was perfect for her.  She could wisecrack with her co-workers but she didn't have to be nice to anyone just because that was part of the job.  It made sense though that someone without any real job skills was going to end up working in a fast food place or a restaurant or as the shampoo girl at the local beauty salon.  

What never made sense was that someone with Roseanne's work ethic ever thought she could run her own business!   That said one of the diner episodes I really liked was the one with Darlene being an ass about them serving meat and Roseanne coming down on her hard about how this was her livelihood and Darlene needed to respect that.  I am not remembering the episode well but I think Darlene did something really stupid like chalking dead bodies around the restaurant or something like that.  Anyway completely disregarding that if her mother's restaurant went out of business she suffers too.  

[tessaray]

No revival talk - this is a no spoilers topic.  Posts discussing the reboot and posts quoting them have been hidden.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

Jackie was needy before the police force. Wasn't one of the huge issues in Jackie & Gary's relationship that she refused to speak up for herself, because she was so desperate to maintain a relationship?

Jackie was always needy, with a smidgen of independent woman. As the show progressed, I think we saw more of the "true" Jackie than just the single independent sister of the married Roseanne. Both Jackie and Roseanne had emotional issues (one never could find the right man, one never could find the wrong donut). Remember when their dad died and Jackie couldn't even get herself together to call anybody after Auntie Barbara? Roseanne was the "strong" sister and Jackie was more the hot mess. Maybe after their father died, Jackie became more unglued. 

[CatsAndMoreCats]

Annber03 said: 

Quote

Roseanne should just stay off Twitter altogether (or the internet in general, really). Twitter needs to do more to crack down on this shit.

In spite of how hard Twitter huffs and puffs about monitoring what gets posted, there's no way they would do much of anything.  Look at how long we've been discussing Roseanne's vile tweet.  Multiply us times the rest of the world, and that's how much publicity-through-osmosis Twitter is getting.  They're not about to give that up. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by CatsAndMoreCats

[Chaos Theory]

On 5/14/2018 at 2:36 PM, Mmmfloorpie said:

Roseanne Bar was progressive and liberated. But Roseanne Conner was played pretty straight blue collar until later seasons. 

She might have taken the diner for granted after it opened but she had high aspirations about having her own business and making it a reality.

One of the weird things was after everyone quit the factory job and everyone else got a job Roseanne actually talked her way into a cushy secretary position even though she didn’t have the resume for it until she found she needed computer skills.  What I found odd was that no one (not Dan, not her friends, not even her kids) even brought up the idea of her learning how to use a computer.  

Edited June 9, 2018 by Chaos Theory