Original Flavor Season Talk: Dinner at Rodbell's

[TheLastKidPicked]

Thank you, Peacheslatour.  I always look forward to your insightful posts as well.

7 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Someone more scrappy and enterprising would have spent the weekend at the nearest public library or community college to get enough knowledge to wing it in the beginning, and after a few weeks figured out the rest on her own.

You are right, and to put a finer point on it, Darlene would have done exactly what you said but Becky wouldn't

Edited February 7, 2018 by TheLastKidPicked

[Bastet]

19 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Remember when Roseanne was offered a great office job, but turned it down because she had no computer experience?

She didn't turn it down, the offer was revoked when the personnel manager (Muriel) found out she didn't know how to use a computer.  Roseanne said she was a fast learner, and would come in early/stay late to learn the system, but Muriel said "not by Monday, you can't" and went back to her list of candidates.

What Roseanne didn't do is go take any computer classes so she could apply for office jobs in the future, but that's also typical.  It's one of the things I love about this series -- for all the ways in which the economy is rigged against them, they also make short-sighted decisions that may make me want to shake them, and then I have to sit back and acknowledge, well, that was incredibly realistic, and that's the show's goal.  I almost always understand why they're doing what they're doing, and recognize it as something many people in their circumstances do.

[peacheslatour]

Back in the early aughts when I could see the writing on the wall that the day of mom and pop flower shops were going the way of the buggy whip, I asked my aunt if I could come into her office a couple days a week and do filing, answer the phones, etc. In exchange would she teach me Word and Quickbooks? She said sure and by the next month I had a full time job and eventually became office manager at a very good salary. It can be done.

[readster]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

The catch-22 is that if Dan and Roseanne had known enough to say those things to their children, they would have known to apply that advice to themselves. Remember when Roseanne was offered a great office job, but turned it down because she had no computer experience? Someone more scrappy and enterprising would have spent the weekend at the nearest public library or community college to get enough knowledge to wing it in the beginning, and after a few weeks figured out the rest on her own.

Mark actually was a good mechanic, and would have been a great example of how someone without a college degree could still do well in life, but the show unfortunately decided to dumb him down and have him and Becky live in a trailer for cheap laughs.

Both great points, even when Roseanne was starting to do more at the salon. She could have thought about trying to get her cosmetology license and she would have had on the job experience, but that wasn't her. She was: "I need something I know I can do, get money, and work for people who get pissed off at me, but know I work well." She never thought ahead, much like Becky. Same with Dan, Mark had such capabilities and could have even started his own garage repair, especially in Landford, but making him dumb ass was where they thought it would be "funny". 

[Maharincess]

24 minutes ago, readster said:

Both great points, even when Roseanne was starting to do more at the salon. She could have thought about trying to get her cosmetology license and she would have had on the job experience, but that wasn't her. She was: "I need something I know I can do, get money, and work for people who get pissed off at me, but know I work well." She never thought ahead, much like Becky. Same with Dan, Mark had such capabilities and could have even started his own garage repair, especially in Landford, but making him dumb ass was where they thought it would be "funny". 

And everything being listed about this is one of the many reason why the show was so real. There are a lot of people out there like the Connors. If they had done any of the things being suggested, it would have been a different show. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Maharincess

[JAYJAY1979]

I would venture to say Dan at least tried with the bike shop, then trying to flip houses, and finally working for the city.. and he always had the dry wall skill to fall back on moreso then Roseanne.

Oddly, as screwed up as Jackie was, she always had vision and always tried to reach for the stars.  She became a cop, then a trucker, and it was her idea to open the sandwich shop based on finding a sandwich on her truck route.

As Roseanne even remarked in one episode 'heck even Crystal had a job'.. where she must have done pretty well selling cosmetics (if it was like Avon or Mary Kay.. that can be pretty successful.. and Crystal was feminine and seemed like the type that would enjoy throwing parties.).. Oddly, in the beauty salon episodes... Crystal is one of the customers and Roseanne is serving her.  An odd turn of events, imho

Edited February 8, 2018 by JAYJAY1979

[Dee]

It's difficult to consider Becky's time in Minneapolis as a failure for the character, given Lecy's abrupt exit & just how much the writers had given up on Becky, as a character, prior to she and Mark eloping.

And the less said about the writing for the character during the Sarah Chalke years, the better.

[peacheslatour]

28 minutes ago, Dee said:

It's difficult to consider Becky's time in Minneapolis as a failure for the character, given Lecy's abrupt exit & just how much the writers had given up on Becky, as a character, prior to she and Mark eloping.

And the less said about the writing for the character during the Sarah Chalke years, the better.

True that.

[UYI]

On 2/4/2018 at 11:41 AM, anna0852 said:

The reason I would consider Becky a failure is that she spent at least 2 years in Minneapolis and undertook apparently no further job training. What was she doing while Mark was working? When she returns to Landford it's quite some time before we see her reenter the workforce and when we do it's to wait tables at a Hooters knock off. In all that time she never racked up some community college credits? Attended any trade school programs? Did we ever even hear mention of her being employed in Minneapolis? Was there any job history or experience in her background?

I think she was supposed to be finishing her last year of high school in Minneapolis? They kind of let that thread go once Sarah started playing Becky. (And Becky and Mark were only away from Lanford for a year and a half.) 

[Nordly Beaumont]

I can't blame Rosanne for not taking computer classes. She probably could have gotten the basics, but for a job that she knew may not ever come available. I grew up in a small town and when it came to any half-way decent jobs in the area - there was rarely any turnover. When someone had a decent job they kept it! Didn't Rosanne get the one interview through a friend? That's the way it was in small towns.  If a person did leave, the job wouldn't be advertised in the paper or with a sign in the window. The boss would already know someone or the person leaving would recommend someone and the job would be filled before anyone knew it was ever opened. The old "it's not what you know, it's who you know" situation.

Cosmetology school costs money and a great deal of time. When I went in the 80's it cost $5,500 and my particular school was one year, 8:00 - 4:30, Tuesday through Saturday. IIRC, there were 8 month schools, but in the end you need 1500 hours of practical experience. And here's the kicker - going to cosmetology school doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any good at cutting/coloring/perming hair! I really wanted to be a stylist but in the end I just wasn't "cut" out for it (ha ha). So if it wasn't on Rosanne's radar as a career option, it could have been all for nothing.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Nordly Beaumont

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I can't blame Rosanne for not taking computer classes. She probably could have gotten the basics, but for a job that she knew may not ever come available. I grew up in a small town and when it came to any half-way decent jobs in the area - there was rarely any turnover. When someone had a decent job they kept it! Didn't Rosanne get the one interview through a friend? That's the way it was in small towns.  If a person did leave, the job wouldn't be advertised in the paper or with a sign in the window. The boss would already know someone or the person leaving would recommend someone and the job would be filled before anyone knew it was ever opened. The old "it's not what you know, it's who you know" situation.

This. This is how it is in my town, too. 

[Bastet]

40 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Cosmetology school costs money and a great deal of time.

Plus, it wasn't something she had any particular interest in -- I find it a stretch to think that because she worked in a salon with great people she should have felt compelled to spend the time and money to study a trade in which she had no natural interest or passion, in the hopes of, what, getting a position that would have to be created unless Iris quit?

[anna0852]

That might not have been the only salon in town. Or there could have been salons in other towns, in driving distance.

As for having an interest and passion, did we ever seen Roseanne approach her jobs as anything more than a means to a paycheck? Even the Lunchbox was Jackie's idea, Roseanne just decided to join in. When you have a family to support and bills to pay, interest and passion tend to take a backseat to reliable paycheck.

[chocolatine]

It's not about cosmetology in particular, it's about Roseanne never taking any steps to improve her professional qualifications. It's realistic, but also sad to watch someone you're rooting for tread water year after year. Even with the Lunchbox, we never saw Roseanne try to learn the business side of running a restaurant, and once Leon bought Bev's shares, she seemed more than happy to leave that stuff to him.

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

When you have a family to support and bills to pay, interest and passion tend to take a backseat to reliable paycheck.

Which is why she worked for the little maggot peddling fast-food chicken.  But there's a difference between taking a crappy job you can get immediately versus investing time and money on education/training that may or may not pay off in the future, and that's why a lot of people in Roseanne's position don't do the latter.

[qtpye]

On 2/4/2018 at 1:13 PM, chocolatine said:

I agree. I remember the fit she pitched when she found out that her parents didn't have a college fund for her. If she had been as smart as everyone said she was, she would have (a) figured out on her own that her family was living paycheck to paycheck, and (b) applied for scholarships/financial aid, taken out student loans, and gone to an affordable state school. Millions of people put themselves through school without their parents' help.

Compare this with Sue from the Middle.  Sue knew that her financially irresponsible parents would never have the money for her to attend college.  She applied to every scholarship, student aid program, worked at the mall, and even did things like showing The Great Pumpkin in a farm to raise money for college.  At the end, financial aid took care of most of it.

On 2/4/2018 at 12:44 PM, CherryAmes said:

It's been awhile since I've watched Roseanne but my memory of Becky is that she was a lot of talk - big dreams but no real effort made to make those dreams come true, certainly once she made the choice to run off with Mark anyhow.

 

On 2/6/2018 at 4:34 PM, Bastet said:

Yeah, Becky was book smart, and she also believed the narrative that all you had to do to get into college was get good grades.  So when she hit the stumbling block of no college fund, she crawled into a hollow log and died like Darlene predicted. 

My fanwank was that Becky was a good student, but by no means a brilliant one.  She just seemed really good compared to her chronically academically underachieving family.  I also have a feeling that Becky really did not challenge herself by taking the hard classes and that the Landford school system was not the best.  I think she might actually give up at college work, that would be much more challenging then what she was used to.

On 2/7/2018 at 6:49 PM, Bastet said:

She didn't turn it down, the offer was revoked when the personnel manager (Muriel) found out she didn't know how to use a computer.  Roseanne said she was a fast learner, and would come in early/stay late to learn the system, but Muriel said "not by Monday, you can't" and went back to her list of candidates.

What Roseanne didn't do is go take any computer classes so she could apply for office jobs in the future, but that's also typical.  It's one of the things I love about this series -- for all the ways in which the economy is rigged against them, they also make short-sighted decisions that may make me want to shake them, and then I have to sit back and acknowledge, well, that was incredibly realistic, and that's the show's goal.  I almost always understand why they're doing what they're doing, and recognize it as something many people in their circumstances do.

That was an amazingly beautiful and heartbreaking episode.

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's not about cosmetology in particular, it's about Roseanne never taking any steps to improve her professional qualifications. It's realistic, but also sad to watch someone you're rooting for tread water year after year. Even with the Lunchbox, we never saw Roseanne try to learn the business side of running a restaurant, and once Leon bought Bev's shares, she seemed more than happy to leave that stuff to him.

The truth was Roseanne never had the discipline or drive to better her lot in life.  Very similar to Becky, she would just give up if things got too hard or challenging.  She would often use her family as an excuse, for why she did not pursue her dreams, whether it was about writing or gaining skills for a better paying job then fast food worker or shampoo girl.  However, the truth was she was just not the type of person to do what was needed to succeed.  I also think deep down, she was afraid to venture out of the financial rut she made for herself, because she did not believe in herself.

I applaud Roseanne Barr for showing this type of woman on tv.  Also, Roseanne Barr had amazing drive and talent and in that way, could not be more different then Roseanne Connor.

Here is a question.  Do you think if Jackie ever succeeded in one of her career schemes that Roseanne would be proud?  I think she would be kind of proud at first, but that would quickly turn into jealousy and resentment.

[Annber03]

24 minutes ago, qtpye said:

My fanwank was that Becky was a good student, but by no means a brilliant one.  She just seemed really good compared to her chronically academically underachieving family.  I also have a feeling that Becky really did not challenge herself by taking the hard classes and that the Landford school system was not the best.  I think she might actually give up at college work, that would be much more challenging then what she was used to.

I can agree with this. Especially the bolded part. What might pass for good work in your small town may not fly in a more challenging curriculum. And Roseanne and Dan never pressured her or anything like that-they were accepting of her B grade when she refused to dissect that frog, because they knew she was normally a straight A student-but they also made it clear that her getting As and whatnot wasn't surprising after a while, because "that's just who she was". IT was just assumed she'd always get good grades and always do well in school. Combine that with whatever pressure she might've put on herself, and I can see where she could have felt a little anxious after a while. 

And, as she noted in that episode when she found out that her parents didn't have money for her to go to college, she didn't really see the point of busting her butt to get good grades if it wasn't going to amount to much. Like you all note, yeah, there's things she could've done to try and help herself get around some of those issues, but she, and the rest of the family by extension, seemed very reticent to accept help of any kind whenever they were struggling with this or that. That's another big thing among families of this sort, and it's something I saw in my own parents as well. Didn't matter how dire our situation was, we're supposed to just "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps", as the saying goes, and forge ahead, and only ask for help if absolutely needed. People in those kinds of situations don't want to have to worry about paying back anyone who helps them (especially if they're not sure they can pay people back), they don't want to feel like they're mooching off people, they want to feel like their achievements were through their own hard work, etc. I sense this was some of Becky's issue, too. 

Quote

The truth was Roseanne never had the discipline or drive to better her lot in life.  Very similar to Becky, she would just give up if things got too hard or challenging.  She would often use her family as an excuse, for why she did not pursue her dreams, whether it was about writing or gaining skills for a better paying job then fast food worker or shampoo girl.  However, the truth was she was just not the type of person to do what was needed to succeed.  I also think deep down, she was afraid to venture out of the financial rut she made for herself, because she did not believe in herself.

I applaud Roseanne Barr for showing this type of woman on tv.  Also, Roseanne Barr had amazing drive and talent and in that way, could not be more different then Roseanne Connor.

Roseanne's whole, "I can't work nights/weekends, I need to be with my family" argument kinda bugged my mom and she's commented on it before. Both of my parents have worked jobs that had them working nights and weekends when my sister and I were kids. There's some jobs where you're just not going to get that kind of choice, especially if you're working retail or at a restaurant or something, like Roseanne did. It's generally the better-paying jobs that can afford for that kind of luxury (and when they had the bike shop, they could obviously set their own hours there, too). Yes, it's important for parents to be home with their kids as much as they can, but when you gotta work, you gotta work, and you may have to figure out alternate plans to make sure your kids are somewhere with adult supervision as a result. 

But yeah, that issue aside, I fully agree with your sentiments about Roseanne putting that kind of woman, who struggled with insecurities and self-doubts and such, on TV. Many women no doubt related to that part of her character. 

Quote

Here is a question.  Do you think if Jackie ever succeeded in one of her career schemes that Roseanne would be proud?  I think she would be kind of proud at first, but that would quickly turn into jealousy and resentment.

I could see some jealousy and resentment, yeah, definitely. Especially if Jackie started trying to give her "This is what I did to get successful, you should do x, y, z, too" type of advice in order to try and help Roseanne. She'd mean well, of course, but it'd be so easy for Roseanne to take it as a dig or criticism. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Annber03

[qtpye]

Quote

Roseanne's whole, "I can't work nights/weekends, I need to be with my family" argument kinda bugged my mom and she's commented on it before. Both of my parents have worked jobs that had them working nights and weekends when my sister and I were kids. There's some jobs where you're just not going to get that kind of choice, especially if you're working retail or at a restaurant or something, like Roseanne did. It's generally the better-paying jobs that can afford for that kind of luxury (and when they had the bike shop, they could obviously set their own hours there, too). Yes, it's important for parents to be home with their kids as much as they can, but when you gotta work, you gotta work, and you may have to figure out alternate plans to make sure your kids are somewhere with adult supervision as a result. 

I agree.  My mother worked retail, while she put herself through graduate school.  This meant we never saw her on the weekends, nights, or major holidays.  It sucked, but it was not like she had a lot of choice, because those are the times people shop.  She also got commission, so that meant she made much more money working during the busy times.

I remember when Roseanne was interviewing for the shampoo girl job (her supposed rock bottom), she said that she could never work weekends, because she had a husband that was "totally dependent on her".  I know she was half joking, but I think she really thought she was the glue that held the family together.  Truthfully, she never seemed to do much in the way of cleaning house or cooking healthy meals.  I do think she did do most of the chores and the child rearing, but to say she could never work on a weekend was a stretch.

I personally would feel much more demeaned working at fast food under a snot nosed kid that was in high school and treated me like crap, then being a shampoo girl, but she did not seem to mind the fast food job and did try hard to keep it.

[TheLastKidPicked]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

I applaud Roseanne Barr for showing this type of woman on tv.  Also, Roseanne Barr had amazing drive and talent and in that way, could not be more different then Roseanne Connor.

Which makes it even more amazing that she was able to capture the "feel" of Dan and Roseanne.

[Browncoat]

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

shampoo girl

Shampoo woman.

[StaceyNotStacie]

TV Land is showing the episode with Dan’s heart attack. I’ve seen it dozens of times, but I noticed the scene where DJ didn’t want to leave the hospital. It brought me back to the portapotty accident where he didn’t want Dan to go to work and was paranoid that something would happen to him. 

[peacheslatour]

30 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

TV Land is showing the episode with Dan’s heart attack. I’ve seen it dozens of times, but I noticed the scene where DJ didn’t want to leave the hospital. It brought me back to the portapotty accident where he didn’t want Dan to go to work and was paranoid that something would happen to him. 

Out of the whole family DJ would have been the most affected by Dan's "death".

[Nordly Beaumont]

One of my favorite moments is when DJ gives Dan one of Dan's own hammers for a birthday present. "Do you like it?" "I always have, son." - so cute!

[Bastet]

The revival will render it a moot thought, since Dan is alive, but one of the things that always got me most about Dan turning out to have died from that heart attack is that D.J. did CPR on him.  The poor kid would probably wonder if he'd been bigger and stronger, would it have worked.

Also that it happened at the wedding reception; for the rest of her life, Darlene's anniversary is also the anniversary of her dad's death, Roseanne's memory of watching her daughter get married is irrevocably tied to her memory of watching her husband die, etc.

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

TV Land is showing the episode with Dan’s heart attack. I’ve seen it dozens of times, but I noticed the scene where DJ didn’t want to leave the hospital. It brought me back to the portapotty accident where he didn’t want Dan to go to work and was paranoid that something would happen to him. 

I have a hard time watching that one, or any of the others afterwards where he's recovering. It hits way too close to home for me. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

The revival will render it a moot thought, since Dan is alive, but one of the things that always got me most about Dan turning out to have died from that heart attack is that D.J. did CPR on him.  The poor kid would probably wonder if he'd been bigger and stronger, would it have worked.

Also that it happened at the wedding reception; for the rest of her life, Darlene's anniversary is also the anniversary of her dad's death, Roseanne's memory of watching her daughter get married is irrevocably tied to her memory of watching her husband die, etc.

I always think about the wedding anniversary  and the heart attack. It never occurred to me about DJ and the CPR. I’ve always wondered if Dan died at the actual reception or if it happened after the family scene in the hospital. 

I’ve been on a bit of a Roseanne hiatus lately, but managed to catch a few episodes on TV Land and LoGo this afternoon. They’re showing the gay wedding. I love how the relationship between Roseanne and Leon evolved from Rodbell’s to the diner. 

[qtpye]

On 2/9/2018 at 3:15 AM, Annber03 said:

I can agree with this. Especially the bolded part. What might pass for good work in your small town may not fly in a more challenging curriculum. And Roseanne and Dan never pressured her or anything like that-they were accepting of her B grade when she refused to dissect that frog, because they knew she was normally a straight A student-but they also made it clear that her getting As and whatnot wasn't surprising after a while, because "that's just who she was". IT was just assumed she'd always get good grades and always do well in school. Combine that with whatever pressure she might've put on herself, and I can see where she could have felt a little anxious after a while. 

And, as she noted in that episode when she found out that her parents didn't have money for her to go to college, she didn't really see the point of busting her butt to get good grades if it wasn't going to amount to much. Like you all note, yeah, there's things she could've done to try and help herself get around some of those issues, but she, and the rest of the family by extension, seemed very reticent to accept help of any kind whenever they were struggling with this or that. That's another big thing among families of this sort, and it's something I saw in my own parents as well. Didn't matter how dire our situation was, we're supposed to just "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps", as the saying goes, and forge ahead, and only ask for help if absolutely needed. People in those kinds of situations don't want to have to worry about paying back anyone who helps them (especially if they're not sure they can pay people back), they don't want to feel like they're mooching off people, they want to feel like their achievements were through their own hard work, etc. I sense this was some of Becky's issue, too. 

Roseanne's whole, "I can't work nights/weekends, I need to be with my family" argument kinda bugged my mom and she's commented on it before. Both of my parents have worked jobs that had them working nights and weekends when my sister and I were kids. There's some jobs where you're just not going to get that kind of choice, especially if you're working retail or at a restaurant or something, like Roseanne did. It's generally the better-paying jobs that can afford for that kind of luxury (and when they had the bike shop, they could obviously set their own hours there, too). Yes, it's important for parents to be home with their kids as much as they can, but when you gotta work, you gotta work, and you may have to figure out alternate plans to make sure your kids are somewhere with adult supervision as a result. 

But yeah, that issue aside, I fully agree with your sentiments about Roseanne putting that kind of woman, who struggled with insecurities and self-doubts and such, on TV. Many women no doubt related to that part of her character. 

I could see some jealousy and resentment, yeah, definitely. Especially if Jackie started trying to give her "This is what I did to get successful, you should do x, y, z, too" type of advice in order to try and help Roseanne. She'd mean well, of course, but it'd be so easy for Roseanne to take it as a dig or criticism. 

 

On 2/9/2018 at 12:04 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

Which makes it even more amazing that she was able to capture the "feel" of Dan and Roseanne.

On 2/9/2018 at 2:46 PM, Browncoat said:

Shampoo woman.

I just re watched some of the episodes on Amazon and noticed something that I did not realize as a kid.  From the journey of quitting the factory, fast food, phone magazine sales, shampoo woman (thanks, Browncoat), and finally waitress, Dan tells her repeatedly that he is doing great in the dry wall business and there is no need for her to work.  He even implies that the low wage and stress that she has from her jobs are not worth the aggravation and she should just stay home with the kids.

I realized that even though Roseanne did not come from the upper middle class background associated with privilege, Dan earns enough that she does not have to do these type of jobs, which she seemed to hate.  I know in the factory she was making eight dollars an hour, plus benefits and I doubt any of the other jobs paid as well.  I really do not know why she was so desperate to get a job unless:

1. Since Dan ran his own business, he  really did not have benefits and they all came from her job.  However, I do not know if he would be to easy to tell her to quit the factory and not work, if this were the case.

2. Dan was doing well, but she could not trust his good fortune would last and feared being unemployed if he went through a dry spell.

3. She was just a type of woman who felt useless unless she had a job, no matter how demeaning and just could not stomach being a full time SAHM.

Again it is doubtful that after the factory Roseanne brought much income to the family, so I do not know why she was still  working if it really was not a necessity.

[Bastet]

I think it's mostly number two; they were doing okay on just Dan's income, temporarily, but I can't imagine it being enough to feel comfortable saying, yeah, sure - let's have only this to rely on in perpetuity, even through the winter months when construction slows down, and even though it's job to job, not a steady paycheck.  I don't think it was enough of an income cushion to feel secure.  (I doubt they had employer-provided benefits at all between her leaving Wellman and him taking the government job.)  I think Dan somewhat over-estimated their ability to properly live on his income alone (he's not some macho idiot who wants the "little woman" at home, but he'd also take some pride in being able to provide for the family without her "having" to work if need be), and Roseanne was more realistic about it. 

[TheLastKidPicked]

Very insightful post, Qtpye.

I agree with Bastet.  For a person like Roseanne, a job equals security.  And to add to your theory number three:  Some people don't do well being a stay at home mom or dad.   They need at least a part time job to give them a reason to get up and out the door at a certain time, or they just waste time all day.

[JAYJAY1979]

And not only did she quit the job at the factory.. she lost benefits and her pension.  This leads me to believe that her job was union based.. and back in the 80s, being in a union job meant job security and once retired, a pretty nice retirement.  So her quitting her job not only lost her steady income and benefits.. but also affected her retirement as well.  

[peacheslatour]

If it was a union job, she and the others should have gone to their rep about the asshole manager.

[GoldenGirl90]

On 2/7/2018 at 6:49 PM, Bastet said:

It's one of the things I love about this series -- for all the ways in which the economy is rigged against them, they also make short-sighted decisions that may make me want to shake them, and then I have to sit back and acknowledge, well, that was incredibly realistic, and that's the show's goal. 

Very well-said! I think this is one of the main reasons so many people gravitated towards the show - we were all sitting in front of our television screens, wondering why the family made xyz decisions, only to realize that’s what made the show so realistic and believable. Sometimes we don’t make the wisest decisions in life and hindsight is 20/20. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

If it was a union job, she and the others should have gone to their rep about the asshole manager.

Staying at the factory would have prolonged the inevitable. Didn’t the factory close around the time the bike shop closed?

[anna0852]

Yeah but it's that more many years of a steady paycheck and benefits and building up her retirement. I understand that that manager was an asshole but Roseanne really should have raised a grievance with the union and maybe kept her job. If the union wouldn't do anything, then I'd understand walking off.

[CherryAmes]

Speaking of the time when Roseanne worked at the hair salon I felt they handled that really well.  Roseanne feeling like she hit rock bottom, being teased about working there by her family (I hated them for that!!) and ultimately finding she liked it and was valued there.  I can't remember why she left now, but I always thought it was the only place she really showed any actual work ethic after the factory job.  After that it was all wisecracks and skiving off, even when it was her own business on the line.

[readster]

1 hour ago, CherryAmes said:

Speaking of the time when Roseanne worked at the hair salon I felt they handled that really well.  Roseanne feeling like she hit rock bottom, being teased about working there by her family (I hated them for that!!) and ultimately finding she liked it and was valued there.  I can't remember why she left now, but I always thought it was the only place she really showed any actual work ethic after the factory job.  After that it was all wisecracks and skiving off, even when it was her own business on the line.

From what I understand, they wanted to key into Roseanne can't advance at a job or has the drive to want to expanded the Landford world to the mall. Of course closing the place down two years later, because it was getting "expensive" for the extras and set. Then they go build the Lunchbox but that was apparently easier as they used less extras, but were making a successful profit. 

[Mmmfloorpie]

Wow a lot has been going on here! Somehow I got signed out on my phone and thought there was no activity for the last two weeks because none of the topics were bolded lol.

 

Anyways, I skimmed through everything and would like to present my opinion on Roseanne and not trying to take career training/refusing to work nights and weekends. Sorry if I say something that's already been brought up.

 

Season 2 is really the main part of the show that deals with Roseanne's "working life" and the choices she made as a working mother. The other seasons she had steady work or was unemployed only for a few episodes.

 

In season 2, Roseanne bounces around from job to job. Roseanne's job insecurity is contrasted with Dan's prosperity (sitcoms love conflict). Numerous episodes Dan talks about all the jobs he has and even turning down jobs because he is too busy. Roseanne is jealous of his success. 

A few times in season 2 she laments having quit Wellman. Mostly due to the fact she had been there 11 years (I think), had benefits and a pension. Benefits and a pension are even more important to a person married to a contractor with no such benefits.

Point is, Wellman was more about her being there so long and the benefits. It was a job; she wasn't trying to climb the corporate ladder and become supervisor or anything like that.

All the jobs in season 2 are the same thing, including the salon. Just jobs to make a bit of extra money and buy Becky designer jeans. Getting out of the house is also important to her.

Dan is doing well enough that her employment isn't a necessity.

In season 3 the idea Roseanne isn't a career woman is reinforced. In the Home Ec episode she gets defensive about Dan being asked to speak at the school and she isn't. She believes the job of wife and mother is undervalued. She doesn't even consider going in to talk about her job as a waitress or any previous job she has held.

In the Bird is the Word episode the principal says he understands balancing a career with motherhood is a challenge. Roseanne counters that she doesn't have a career, she has a job. Her kids are her career.

It really wasn't until season 5 and the diner that Roseanne wanted to be a business woman and take over as breadwinner.

That is why I don't really agree when people say Roseanne should have taken a class in office management or been more flexible with her work schedule.

Being a mother was #1 to her at that time. Her jobs were for social interaction and to make the family more comfortable.

There are counter feminist movements of woman who are perfectly content to just be a wife and mother. They don't need success in business to feel fulfilled. Not every woman aspires to be a career person.

The way I approach the show is that her kids were forefront seasons 1-4 and then once they grew up (and moved out) she wanted to "have something of her own" and open up The Lunchbox season 5 and beyond. Not that she made mistakes by not advancing her career seasons 1-4 and then finally getting her act together by season 5.

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 2/10/2018 at 12:46 PM, Stacey1014 said:

TV Land is showing the episode with Dan’s heart attack. I’ve seen it dozens of times, but I noticed the scene where DJ didn’t want to leave the hospital. It brought me back to the portapotty accident where he didn’t want Dan to go to work and was paranoid that something would happen to him. 

Weather you like Tom Arnold as a person or not, he nailed the character of Arnie perfectly in the wrecking ball, porta potty episode.  If you know somebody like him, then you appreciate the exchange--

Dan:  I'm more embarrassed than anything else. I crawl out of that thing with my pants down around my ankles, I looked up, there's thirty people standing around staring at me.

Arnie: Man, and it was really an awkward moment. No one knew what to do. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to start the applause.

 

 

On 2/13/2018 at 9:29 AM, Mmmfloorpie said:

In season 3 the idea Roseanne isn't a career woman is reinforced. In the Home Ec episode she gets defensive about Dan being asked to speak at the school and she isn't. She believes the job of wife and mother is undervalued. She doesn't even consider going in to talk about her job as a waitress or any previous job she has held.

The show did a very good job of showing this intersection of time:  When women were becoming equal partners on the economic front, but people still asked for the "man of the house".

[SparklesBitch]

A little off topic, but I’m watching Five of a Kind right now, the one where Arnie kisses Roseanne and she (understandably, I think) freaks out and spends all night in the bedroom analyzing it with Jackie. 

I’ve always really liked their sisterly moments, and this is one of my favorites. I love the whole re-enactment of what happened and how genuine it all feels. Especially when they’re hanging out on the bed next to each other with their feet on the pillows, biting their nails and discussing whether or not to tell Dan. Their relationship is one of the big reasons why I love this show so much because watching them really feels like they grew up together. Maybe I just don’t watch enough TV now to find it, but I feel like this kind of thing never happens anymore. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, SparklesBitch said:

A little off topic, but I’m watching Five of a Kind right now, the one where Arnie kisses Roseanne and she (understandably, I think) freaks out and spends all night in the bedroom analyzing it with Jackie. 

I’ve always really liked their sisterly moments, and this is one of my favorites. I love the whole re-enactment of what happened and how genuine it all feels. Especially when they’re hanging out on the bed next to each other with their feet on the pillows, biting their nails and discussing whether or not to tell Dan. Their relationship is one of the big reasons why I love this show so much because watching them really feels like they grew up together. Maybe I just don’t watch enough TV now to find it, but I feel like this kind of thing never happens anymore. 

I probably don't watch enough current programming either (I tend to watch old cop shows) but there doesn't seem to be the kind of cultural imperative there used to be for domestic comedy. I agree with your assessment completely though, Roseanne was able to make you feel right at home with her and like you were part of the family. I feel like I know her house as well as I know my own. Roseanne and Laurie were so warm and lovely to watch together.

Edited February 18, 2018 by peacheslatour

[JakeyJokes]

On that note, I just watched Becky Doesn't Live Here Anymore, and that episode dod a really good job with the Darlene/Becky dynamic. There is a scene where Darlene just lays into Becky (who has ran away to live with Jackie after fighting with her parents all the time) and Sara Gilbert really sells the pain that Darlene is in. I think anyone who had a complicated childhood with a sibling could relate.

[Dee]

I LOATHE that scene.

Throughout the entire run of the show Darlene is always allowed to tear into Becky, while Becky is forced to stand there and take it.

Meanwhile, if anyone, least of all Becky, ever lobbed even the slightest bit of criticism at Darlene, she acted like an eternal victim.

[UYI]

On 2/19/2018 at 4:14 AM, Dee said:

I LOATHE that scene.

Throughout the entire run of the show Darlene is always allowed to tear into Becky, while Becky is forced to stand there and take it.

Meanwhile, if anyone, least of all Becky, ever lobbed even the slightest bit of criticism at Darlene, she acted like an eternal victim.

Becky got her chance to tear into Darlene a season later, though, when Darlene's "dark" period meant Becky got all of her chores. And for once, it wakes Darlene up. 

[anna0852]

I think each sister spent plenty of time antagonzing the other. I never really got the impression that one was supposed to lay off the other, aside from episode or two when Darlene's depression was kicking in. And Becky did eventually go off on her, which in retrospect is a bit painful to watch. I'm not saying depression is a get-out-of-jail free card but Darlene was pretty clearly messed-up and had no idea *why* or how to deal with it. And neither did anyone around her. It's amazing what we didn't know about mental health in the early 90's!

[Dee]

57 minutes ago, UYI said:

Becky got her chance to tear into Darlene a season later, though, when Darlene's "dark" period meant Becky got all of her chores. And for once, it wakes Darlene up. 

Becky doesn't really tear into Darlene though.

She halfheartedly snarks at Darlene, then returns to doing her chores.

Never, during the entire run of the show, does Becky ever treat Darlene with half of the snarling vitriol or unmitigated condescension that Darlene does with Becky imo.

[Angeltoes]

I do carry one piece of Roseanne's wisdom with me from the episode where Becky farted on stage at the school assembly and went into a major embarrassment over it.  Roseanne finally got fed up and said,"Oh, get over it!  You made a little boombie...life's full of little boombies!"  I have given myself that little pep talk when I do something stupid.

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, Angeltoes said:

I do carry one piece of Roseanne's wisdom with me from the episode where Becky farted on stage at the school assembly and went into a major embarrassment over it.  Roseanne finally got fed up and said,"Oh, get over it!  You made a little boombie...life's full of little boombies!"  I have given myself that little pep talk when I do something stupid.

Lol. Me too.

[kimbrchick]

I just finished watching the whole series on Amazon after a few weeks of binge watching. The only episode I  fell asleep during was Roseambo. I remember it from when it originally aired and once was enough. This show started during my early teenage years and was a big part of my formative years. I really enjoyed this rewatch and reading what you all are saying on here. Even after watching it again, the reveal at the end of how the characters were different in reality really got to me. It's so interesting how Roseanne changed them when she wrote them and I can't see them as anything different. For instance, am I right in thinking that everything we saw was fiction based on Roseanne's life, written by the character Roseanne but that she didn't start writing it until Dan died? I'm easily confused so sorry if it's dumb of me to ask.

I also didn't remember David being such a jerk sometimes. He acts like he's this good guy and so much better than his brother but he's just as flawed if not more. I hate how they made Mark the constant butt of the joke and changed his character to be a moron.

The episode that also really sticks out to me is when Darlene and Becky go to the salon with Roseanne because they gave her the certificate for Mother's Day. Then she finds out that it was all just a suck up plan so they could get what they want. Roseanne Barr really nailed the hurt and emotion of it.

I'll wrap up by saying one of the funniest scenes that I remembered from the original watch and loved seeing again was when everyone kept putting the rotten milk back in the fridge and at the end of the episode it almost kills Dan and he still puts it back in the fridge. LOL.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, kimbrchick said:

The episode that also really sticks out to me is when Darlene and Becky go to the salon with Roseanne because they gave her the certificate for Mother's Day. Then she finds out that it was all just a suck up plan so they could get what they want. Roseanne Barr really nailed the hurt and emotion of it.

She really did. I love how Dan handled that, calling out the girls and taking Roseanne out to make her feel better. 

[Bastet]

29 minutes ago, kimbrchick said:

For instance, am I right in thinking that everything we saw was fiction based on Roseanne's life, written by the character Roseanne but that she didn't start writing it until Dan died?

Yes.  After Dan died, she was depressed and didn't want to do anything.  But when Darlene had the baby and it almost died, she pulled herself together to be there for her family.  With that crisis over, she started thinking back on her life, and decided to write it all down - but she'd change the stuff she didn't like.  So, in the book, Dan was alive, the girls were with the guys she thought they should be with, etc.

When Dan died, any semblance of financial security flew out the window (they had a hard enough time with two incomes, so now one?), so she wrote them winning the lottery and living life like characters on TV.  She also felt a sense of abandonment and betrayal as a result of his death, so she wrote him as leaving her for another woman.  She wrote the book to work out her mix of feelings, and says she thinks she'll feel a lot better now that it's done.  That's when she goes upstairs and plops down on the couch to watch TV by herself.  She's now equipped to deal with her new reality; life goes on.