Past Seasons Thread

[Jillibean]

11 hours ago, Zima said:

I just finished the Gauntlet 2.  Man, I remember disliking Beth as much as the cast members did back when I first watched these. However, upon rewatch, I find myself sympathizing with and feeling sorry for her. Everyone was just downright nasty to her. It made me uncomfortable to watch the bullying behavior.

I liked Kina for the most part, but man, she sure hated Cara! She kept trying to put Cara down at the reunion, but Cara just shrugged it all off and didn't take the bait.

Poor Derrick.

Alton and Landon were absolute beasts! 

Katie was surprisingly quiet.

Overall, I really liked the cast and the camaraderie between everyone this season. 

Cara was one of the most gorgeous girls to ever be on this show, and she was confident and owned who she was. I’m not at all surprised in retrospect that Kina felt threatened by her. 

What’s funny about Beth is that she apparently had close relationships with many of the cast members offscreen. She was the original Challenge “character,” playing up her villain persona while being almost like a mama bear to many in real life. It’s funny to look back and see what constituted a villain during the days of G2 and the Duel. 

It’s funny also to remember the days when there was a sort of stigma and onus to prove something that followed people like Brad and CT for doing so many challenges and never winning one. It was so much easier to win back then, so if you hadn’t notched a win in a few outings it made people really start to comment. These days it’s much more unusual to have won a challenge and you absolutely can’t do it without being very physically fit. I’m trying to think what the first challenge with a really grueling, modern era  final was. Rivals? 
 

[snarts]

Catching up on past seasons with PlutoTV,  I guess I thought that that I stopped watching the Challenge eons ago but really it was only 4-5 years ago.

I caved & watched the latest (blaming quarantine) and happy to see that they finally dropped the requisite gross eating contest from the finals.  

Is anyone streaming really old seasons like Battle of the Seasons (2002) and Battle of Sexes 1 & 2?

[luckyroll3]

The very early seasons are on YouTube. My sister and I are about to start rewatching from season 1 for our podcast.

[Zima]

6 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Cara was one of the most gorgeous girls to ever be on this show, and she was confident and owned who she was. I’m not at all surprised in retrospect that Kina felt threatened by her. 

What’s funny about Beth is that she apparently had close relationships with many of the cast members offscreen. She was the original Challenge “character,” playing up her villain persona while being almost like a mama bear to many in real life. It’s funny to look back and see what constituted a villain during the days of G2 and the Duel. 

It’s funny also to remember the days when there was a sort of stigma and onus to prove something that followed people like Brad and CT for doing so many challenges and never winning one. It was so much easier to win back then, so if you hadn’t notched a win in a few outings it made people really start to comment. These days it’s much more unusual to have won a challenge and you absolutely can’t do it without being very physically fit. I’m trying to think what the first challenge with a really grueling, modern era  final was. Rivals? 
 

Yeah, Rivals was the first season in which the finale lasted overnight and into the next day.  It's laughable to look back at the finals for these older seasons; especially this one where it was basically just an eating contest.

Cara is very pretty, but in my opinion, Kina is prettier.  I do think you're right though. Cara is confident and sexy without really trying, and that was probably a bit off-putting to some women who weren't as secure in themselves.  

That's interesting about Beth.  Another interesting thing was that she was considered FAT in those days, whereas now, her body type is sort of ideal (the big butt and thighs). 

[lasu]

I'm glad y'all explained what was going on with CBS All Access.  Though it's extra weird, if you hit FF at the actual end of the episode, it doesn't repeat those minutes.  But I thought I was losing my mind.

 

Is Gauntlet II the one where supposedly the entire cast was sneaking off and getting high?  There are a LOT of invisible people on this season.

[Treehugger9]

I'm watching battle of the seasons right now on Pluto. I forgot how hilarious Devyn is! She really needs to be hosting the reunion shows...ideally I'd like her back on the show but I'm sure that will never happen. A girl can dream!

 

Eta- I also forgot what a colossal jerk frank is. I hope he never comes back. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Treehugger9

[Giuseppe]

I didn't think I'd ever have any interest in re-watching any of the past seasons with the possible exception of the first Battle of the Seasons (I can't keep even keep track of Gauntlets, Infernos, Exes, etc., let alone who was on each one), but I signed up last night for CBS All Access so I could watch the Big Brother feeds, and dammit if I didn't get sucked into Gauntlet 2. Honestly, I figured I'd maybe watch an episode here or there, but here I am binging the whole thing.

On 8/1/2020 at 9:20 AM, SarahC said:

And everyone looks so young and fresh faced compared to current challengers.  No lip fillers, contouring,  or overly done eyebrows. 

Guys were buff but not hulked out, mountain man beards hadn't overtaken everyone's faces, the girls didn't get dressed to the hilt to go out to the bars. What is this innocence??

I forgot that the show used to do cheesy opening credits to introduce the cast. I used to look forward to that every year. Gauntlet 2's credits were particularly weird with the underwater walking.

I'd also completely forgotten about the likes of Randy, MJ, Ace, Road Rules Adam. I also had no recollection at first of some others. Road Rules Danny and Cara I didn't remember at all.

This show used to really be fun. I miss the field day vibe of the challenges. It is fun reliving this season...I remembered Jo's freakout but not her actually calling the damn police to escort her out. Love seeing Alton again. And Syrus, and Montana. And there's dreamy Seattle David in his underwear. I feel like I'm about to go down a nostalgia rabbit hole. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Giuseppe

[peachmangosteen]

11 minutes ago, Giuseppe said:

I didn't think I'd ever have any interest in re-watching any of the past seasons with the possible exception of the first Battle of the Seasons ...

I wish so much that they would put the first BOtS up somewhere. It's still my fave season of all time!

[BK1978]

On 8/1/2020 at 8:36 PM, SarahC said:

 

  Forgot about Tina and how much she grates my nerves.  

 

I hated Tina with a passion.  Just you bringing her up made me recall how much I hated her.

On 8/3/2020 at 8:48 AM, Jillibean said:

She was the original Challenge “character,” playing up her villain persona while being almost like a mama bear to many in real life. It’s funny to look back and see what constituted a villain during the days of G2 and the Duel. 

 

I started watching Survivor during the Amazon season.  So when I found Australia on DVD I was excited to see this villain named Jeri that everyone was talking about (I bought Australia before she was on All-Stars).  I was so underwhelmed by her, I just did not get what made her a villain.  Heck, I did not really see a reason to dislike her.  So I understand where you are coming from in regards to Beth.  I never personally disliked Beth, even back then.

Now Puck, that dude was a villain in every sense of the word.

[Zima]

Finished binging Fresh Meat 1. I'd seen it within the past few years on a ....total legal site....so it wasn't quite as enjoyable for me as the previous season (which I hadn't seen probably since it was on MtV). Highlights: The introduction of my favorite- Evelyn! (too bad she didn't last very long in this season), Chanda being an absolute beast (why did she never return?), Coral and Evan being taken out of the game due to injuries (I never liked Coral, so hah!), Everything about Wes & Casey (except him calling her a bitch. That was too far), the introduction of Kenny and Evan (I never really liked them, but I can't deny the impact they had on the game), the introduction of Diem (though I always found her grating and entitled. Regardless, RIP).

Onto the next one! 

[lasu]

One of the interesting things was seeing how polished this show has become.  While I think the older seasons are more fun and I like the summer camp vibe, it also looks so low rent to have them competing in their own shorts and tshirts, and people watching the gauntlets drinking beer.  It's pretty funny to me.

I just started Fresh Meat.  I was shocked that Casey and Ev were only 18 for this season!

[lasu]

Double post because I totally forgot the MOST surprising thing from the Gauntlet was some behind the scenes footage where TJ and Cyrus nearly got into a physical fight.  TJ was completely puffing back up to Cyrus, until Timmy came over and chastised him for not being professional, which literally made me lol.  TJ immediately went from 10 to 1 and was like, you're right man.  BUT STILL.  TJ almost got into a fight with a contestant!  Can you imagine??

[Zima]

I finished watching The Duel AKA: The CIT/Diem season a few days ago. I should have posted here right after watching, because I'm already a little fuzzy on the details.  

Aw, CT and Diem were so cute. Shit, CT looked like a god damn model back then. 

Ah yes, the elimination round where a number of contestants got DQed for ripping the flag instead of unclipping it. How frustrating. CT's behavior after being eliminated was so gross. 

Jodi was a beast. I wonder why she never came back after this?

This seemed like the start of a little hatred between Evan and Wes. 

It was good to see Svetlana and Wes make it to the end when they were underdogs all season. 

Brad was never a favorite of mine, but it did suck that his time in the final was better than Wes', but Wes got a 2 minute head-start because of a soccer kick-off.

Onto Inferno 3!  This is the elusive season that isn't even on CBS, but Reddit will help me find it. 

ETA: The Duel was also the season in which Tina landed that pathetic punch on Beth and got kicked off. Good riddance! 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Zima

[forevertwentynine]

Is Inferno III Season 14?  Why isn't it available?  Also, I think episode 1 of Season 16 isn't available.  Just makes me wonder what is there.  

At the beginning of the quarantine, I got MTV Hits through Amazon and watched a lot of seasons maybe from Season 18 or 19... then last week I got CBS All Access for Big Brother and BAM, look what I find.  I just started The Island today and I'm sure I'll be done soon.  

I remember hating all the "trim the fat" stuff from the seasons.  Doesn't bother me so much all these years later - lol - because I know they got their Karma for the most part when it comes to these shows.  Kenny and Evan... ugh.  

I feel guilty for not liking Diem... but yeah, I didn't like her that much.  I felt like she just expected everything because, which is understandable... but I think minus the obvious, I don't think I would have liked her at all.  I had forgotten that she was on a whole season without CT.  Her and Derek were kissing and whatnot.  

Aneesa, I love her so much and sadly she's never won.  She makes it almost to the end.  She's the Original Original OG!  

I just want to find the missing episodes.....

[Zima]

9 hours ago, forevertwentynine said:

Is Inferno III Season 14?  Why isn't it available?  Also, I think episode 1 of Season 16 isn't available.  Just makes me wonder what is there.  

At the beginning of the quarantine, I got MTV Hits through Amazon and watched a lot of seasons maybe from Season 18 or 19... then last week I got CBS All Access for Big Brother and BAM, look what I find.  I just started The Island today and I'm sure I'll be done soon.  

I remember hating all the "trim the fat" stuff from the seasons.  Doesn't bother me so much all these years later - lol - because I know they got their Karma for the most part when it comes to these shows.  Kenny and Evan... ugh.  

I feel guilty for not liking Diem... but yeah, I didn't like her that much.  I felt like she just expected everything because, which is understandable... but I think minus the obvious, I don't think I would have liked her at all.  I had forgotten that she was on a whole season without CT.  Her and Derek were kissing and whatnot.  

Aneesa, I love her so much and sadly she's never won.  She makes it almost to the end.  She's the Original Original OG!  

I just want to find the missing episodes.....

There are entire discussions on Reddit that are trying to dissect why The Inferno III isn't available lol. A lot of people think it was a boring season that tanked in ratings, but i actually quite like the season.

Season 16 ep 1 might be the ep when CT violently attacked Adam, but I could be wrong.

I hated the "trim the fat" talk when it came to getting rid of every woman( even the strong ones), but I understood it when it came to the very weakest players (including men). 

I never liked Diem either, and never got what CT saw in her 😛 

I don't really like Aneesa either, and she is a terrible competitor. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Zima

[snarts]

I recently binge watched the Real World/Road Rules Challenge (season 2), Battle of the Seasons (season 5) and Battle of Sexes (season 6) from recorded DVDs a friend bought online years ago.  I'm old so I watched them all when they aired but that was a long ass time ago and I forgot so much.

Recording quality aside and the earworm intro song from BoSexes still bouncing around in my head, I was shocked by how many of participants smoked! On camera! All the time! Ruthie, Aneesa, Genesis, Emily, Anne, Elka, Coral, Antoine, Puck, David.  Damn near half the cast but so many of the women. 

I was also amused by the lack of gear/uniforms. They often wore their own clothes, especially bathing suits, for the challenges.  Finally, so many opted out if they were scared or didn't feel comfortable.  Imagine that happening now?  TJ would lose his mind.

Really wish I could All Stars (season 1) and Extreme Challenge (season 4),  Where/what season does CBS All Access pick up?

[Zima]

It starts at season 11 (The Gauntlet 2). 

[Eolivet]

CBS All Access doesn't appear to have Season 32, which is the one I wanted to see, so I started season 31.

All I could think of during the 10-minutes-of-Challenge-30-minutes-of-drunken-villa-party (which included two people sneaking off to hook up in the bathroom), and lots of drunken making out, is that interview with Entertainment Weekly, where the showrunner actually said with a straight face that the show should be considered for an Emmy in the past.

Uh ... really?

 

[Jillibean]

12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

CBS All Access doesn't appear to have Season 32, which is the one I wanted to see, so I started season 31.

All I could think of during the 10-minutes-of-Challenge-30-minutes-of-drunken-villa-party (which included two people sneaking off to hook up in the bathroom), and lots of drunken making out, is that interview with Entertainment Weekly, where the showrunner actually said with a straight face that the show should be considered for an Emmy in the past.

Uh ... really?

 

I actually prefer Vendettas to Final Reckoning, because Final Reckoning felt impossibly long. That was the season they decided to experiment with the format of having either a daily challenge or an elimination in each episode, and it drove us all nuts. Also, the redemption house and people coming and going all season. Also, Amanda. That said, I’ve been rewatching it recently and it’s more enjoyable as a binge rather than watching an episode a week over like five months or however long it took when it was originally airing. Anyway, I hope you enjoy Vendettas! 

The Challenge isn’t fun because it’s quality television. Quite the opposite, in fact. But it IS unique in that you get to watch people come back season after season, form and dissolve relationships, and grow up and mature (or not, as the case may be). There’s something really fascinating and comforting about that. I have been watching Wes, Johnny, and Aneesa, for almost half my life. I’ve watched Wes fall in love with Johanna, deal with the aftermath of their public breakup, have a fling with KellyAnne while living with Johanna, and ultimately become a “grown up” with a non-reality television wife whom he genuinely seems to adore. I’ve watched Aneesa go from a pretty wild stripper to someone it seems like everyone would go to for advice and comfort because she’s worldly and wise. And Johnny...has reduced the frequency with which he wears a bandana. Just kidding. Even Johnny has grown up. Sort of. 
 

[Zima]

Inferno 3.

In episode 1 CT gets wasted, punches Davis in the face, and is sent home. 

Susie and Cara are huge bitches to Tonya and kind of to Paula. The slut-shaming of Tonya is out of control, as usual.  Cara throws missions to help Susie win life shields. The whole team hates them. 

Alton, Ace, and Timmy sit out of a challenge because they don't want to wear speedos.

It's Timmy's last season. He announces his retirement after he is eliminated for DQing against Abram.

Ev is the best in some challenges, but also DQs in some due to overconfidence. 

Tonya is in super good shape, and performs very well this season.

Aneesa sucks as usual.

Ace actually makes it to a final.

It's a fun season, and I wish it was on CBS.  Still wondering why it's not. 

 

 

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ive been watching the older seasons that are on CBS All Access and wow it is truly like opening a time capsule.  90% of the things they said/treated people in the past seasons....they'd be ripped to absolute shreds and never allowed back to the entertainment world. 

I have to admit that I do miss the simplicity of things and having more "normal" people around then all of the models we get nowadays. 

[Primal Slayer]

On Battle of the Seasons....good concept but when you shed so many of your key players for newer ones...especially ones that arent that interesting. This season is boring.

[Primal Slayer]

I swear, can CJ be anymore of a Prince Charming? Watching him go up against Zach was like David and Goliath.

[lasu]

I just finished The Duel over the weekend, and holy shit, they dropped what to me was a bombshell in the last few minutes of the reunion.  Apparently, early on, they all got drunk as shit and Kenny passed out cold, and Big E took his own penis and balls and rubbed it them over Kenny's face.  Um, WHAT?  Ok, look, I've heard of such dumb ass behavior before from guys and I have never understood it.  You take YOUR dick out and rub it on another dude's face, and the other dude is supposed to be the humiliated one?  Regardless, let's be clear, rubbing your genitals on an unconscious person's face is sexual assault.  And I have been saying for as long as I can remember that we need to take sexual assault on males more seriously (like stop high fiving male teens who are raped by female teachers).  But this case makes it so fucking clear - imagine if MTV had taken this really seriously?  Do you think that MAYBE, just maybe, if MTV had taken this seriously, or if the cast had, if ANYONE took it as anything other than a gross joke, do you think that MAYBE it would have had an influence on Kenny's future behavior?

This show hold up really well, and really poorly at the same time.  Actually, the vast majority of the time, it seems almost timeless.  It's not like The Real World where they are discussing current events or serious timely issues.  There's no tv, they don't listen to music, it's just drunken hook ups and challenges, so there is very little to date it.  The clothes give a little away, but the main thing that dates it is the prizes given at challenges.  The only thing that is truly jarring is, like someone else mentioned above, is so much of the shit that comes out of people's mouths - even Coral saying something about Ev's penis.  I can't imagine the fall out today if Robin questioned Aneesa on is she Jewish, black, pick something, why are you always something different?  

It's really sad watching how much B/M and MTV let things go, and it's amazing that as awful as what happened to Tonya was, it wasn't actually something much worse.  They truly are so culpable for what happened to her, because they did NOTHING to try to stop the toxic sexism and just trash environment going on. Like, drunkenly ripping people's clothes off was funny!  It's just a joke!  Just keep the alcohol flowing and the camera rolling, nothing else matters.  They repetitively asked people back they shouldn't have.  CT shouldn't have been asked back after he punched Davis, and he sure as shit should have been banned for life after his stalking of Adam.  I love CT, and I love his redemption arc as must as the next girl, but it shouldn't have happened, it was near cruel to do put Adam in that situation.  It simply shouldn't have happened.  Just like it they took what happened to Kenny seriously, what happened to Tonya might have never happened.

[Jillibean]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:38 AM, lasu said:

I just finished The Duel over the weekend, and holy shit, they dropped what to me was a bombshell in the last few minutes of the reunion.  Apparently, early on, they all got drunk as shit and Kenny passed out cold, and Big E took his own penis and balls and rubbed it them over Kenny's face.  Um, WHAT?  Ok, look, I've heard of such dumb ass behavior before from guys and I have never understood it.  You take YOUR dick out and rub it on another dude's face, and the other dude is supposed to be the humiliated one?  Regardless, let's be clear, rubbing your genitals on an unconscious person's face is sexual assault.  And I have been saying for as long as I can remember that we need to take sexual assault on males more seriously (like stop high fiving male teens who are raped by female teachers).  But this case makes it so fucking clear - imagine if MTV had taken this really seriously?  Do you think that MAYBE, just maybe, if MTV had taken this seriously, or if the cast had, if ANYONE took it as anything other than a gross joke, do you think that MAYBE it would have had an influence on Kenny's future behavior?

This show hold up really well, and really poorly at the same time.  Actually, the vast majority of the time, it seems almost timeless.  It's not like The Real World where they are discussing current events or serious timely issues.  There's no tv, they don't listen to music, it's just drunken hook ups and challenges, so there is very little to date it.  The clothes give a little away, but the main thing that dates it is the prizes given at challenges.  The only thing that is truly jarring is, like someone else mentioned above, is so much of the shit that comes out of people's mouths - even Coral saying something about Ev's penis.  I can't imagine the fall out today if Robin questioned Aneesa on is she Jewish, black, pick something, why are you always something different?  

It's really sad watching how much B/M and MTV let things go, and it's amazing that as awful as what happened to Tonya was, it wasn't actually something much worse.  They truly are so culpable for what happened to her, because they did NOTHING to try to stop the toxic sexism and just trash environment going on. Like, drunkenly ripping people's clothes off was funny!  It's just a joke!  Just keep the alcohol flowing and the camera rolling, nothing else matters.  They repetitively asked people back they shouldn't have.  CT shouldn't have been asked back after he punched Davis, and he sure as shit should have been banned for life after his stalking of Adam.  I love CT, and I love his redemption arc as must as the next girl, but it shouldn't have happened, it was near cruel to do put Adam in that situation.  It simply shouldn't have happened.  Just like it they took what happened to Kenny seriously, what happened to Tonya might have never happened.

This, times a hundred. So well said. The only reason that what allegedly happened to Tonya even became a thing was that Tonya decided to pursue it legally after a cast member told her it happened. If that cast member hadn’t blown the whistle, the show would have continued with none of us, including Tonya, being the wiser. I don’t think it ever would have occurred to anyone at BMP that the Eric thing was a problem. It didn’t seem to occur to them that the Tonya thing was a problem, either. There was absolutely a frat house type toxic environment, and while there were kind of/sort of rules about physical violence (obviously lots of gray areas and inconsistencies), there were definitely no boundaries at all set by producers about sexual conduct. I’m also sure that even if Kenny had felt violated, he wouldn’t feel comfortable speaking up about it, because the norm of the house back then was “it’s a joke; suck it up and deal with it.” I think the fact that so many of the cast members were also doing appearances together outside the show where their job was basically to get hammered and then go hang out back at their hotel also blurred a lot of lines. We know that at least one cast member has spoken up about being sexually assaulted outside the show by another cast member in an appearance situation.

An environment like this is always going to breed bad behavior. There are reasons that we have outlets like reading, watching TV, taking a walk, or speaking to loved ones. BMP traps all these people together with no outlets, no access to mental health support, no access to people they trust,  and a message that their job is to be entertaining for television. Stuff is going to happen. But since they created this artificial environment, it’s also their job to clearly delineate to their cast what is and what is not okay. Unfortunately, they have little interest in doing that because as much as they want to reduce their own legal liability, they also know that someone throwing a punch makes good tv. For far too long there has been a “this is not okay, wink wink nudge nudge” approach, IMO. But then I also think part of the reason they haven’t drawn a line in the sand is because they themselves don’t know where it is. What exactly isn’t allowed? Touching people with your genitals without consent seems like a no brainer, but what about stealing someone’s clothes while they’re showering and running off? What about pantsing someone (happened constantly in older challenges)? How about making unsolicited comments about how other people’s bodies are sexually appealing in front of them? What about making unsolicited comments about how other people’s bodies are NOT sexually appealing in front of them? What about continuing to make verbal advances to someone after that person has already said no (cough, Bear and Kailah, cough)? What about the ever popular sexual contact while clearly inebriated? I know there’s supposedly a limit, but there was at least one episode last season where Nany was clearly absolutely sauced. Whose job is it to determine if she’s capable of consent at that point? My guess is that BMP knows the answers to none of these questions and generally goes with the policy of “everything’s okay unless someone complains.” But by the time there’s a complaint it’s probably too late, and I think they’re really riding on a wing and a prayer, all things considered. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Jillibean

[luckyroll3]

On 10/6/2020 at 12:51 PM, Jillibean said:

We know that at least one cast member has spoken up about being sexually assaulted outside the show by another cast member in an appearance situation.

I don't really follow the cast outside of the show, so I hadn't heard about this. Which cast members were involved?

[heatherchandler]

On 8/5/2020 at 5:42 PM, Giuseppe said:

I remembered Jo's freakout but not her actually calling the damn police to escort her out.

I kind of remember this, but where can I watch these old eps?  For free?

On 8/3/2020 at 10:40 AM, luckyroll3 said:

The very early seasons are on YouTube. My sister and I are about to start rewatching from season 1 for our podcast.

Remember when Rachel said, "this is an uggggly game, the inner circle is UGGGGLY!"  Those were the good days of the Challenge!

 

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Remember when Rachel said, "this is an uggggly game, the inner circle is UGGGGLY!"  Those were the good days of the Challenge!

Me and my sister quote this all the time lol.

[Jillibean]

4 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I don't really follow the cast outside of the show, so I hadn't heard about this. Which cast members were involved?

KellyAnne and Adam King. 

 

[luckyroll3]

17 hours ago, Jillibean said:

KellyAnne and Adam King. 

 

Thank you!

Found this as I was looking for more info: 

 

[luckyroll3]

Look like he also did the same thing to Jenn from RW Denver....allegedly.

Edited October 17, 2020 by luckyroll3

[lasu]

That is a fascinating interview.  I've always like Adam, so it's disturbing to hear he is an accused serial rapist.  It's interesting too, because I just started watching The Ruins, and one of the guys (I forget which one) was mad at Wes, so he started attacking KellyAnne, because that makes sense.  He started saying KellyAnne had slept with every guy in the house, which is gross and irrelevant to start with.  But KA was like, "Who have I slept with in this house?  Wes?  Cohutta?  Who else? Adam??.  Even before reading this, I thought it came out weirdly, and now I know why.  I'd also really like to know why she doesn't like Cohutta.  He mostly seemed like a good guy, but I have vague thoughts about him saying some things that made me side eye.

I almost stopped watching The Ruins, because everything with Tonya is so fucking awful.  It's disgusting to watch her edit, when I know they chose that edit while also knowing she was sexually assaulted on the show.  The shaming is awful (and wow on a flashback of Veronica accusing Tonya of masturbating).  She is clearly not ok, and she shouldn't have been cast on this season.  She was so clearly unwell entering the show, and then to get sexually assaulted?  To see a damaged person damaged even further, just for the fun of it?  Fuck.  But probably the most stomach turning part was after Tonya got into the fight with Veronica and was completely falling apart, was Evan "comforting" her.  Seriously, you should my face right now.  He was all pulling her onto his lap like he's her protector and giving talking heads about how he knows the challenge family is the only family Tonya has, and I'm just sitting there like YOU RAPED HER WITH A FUCKING TOOTHBRUSH.  I feel like that must have made things even worse when she found out about her assault, that the person who was "comforting" her and "protecting" her was the person she needed the most protection from.  Fucking sociopath.

And then all of them coming together after she left, and being like, OK, guys, we went too far.  And Wes is like, um, I didn't.  Brad didn't.  YOU GUYS DID.  So fucking disturbing.

[Teriyaki Terror]

33 minutes ago, lasu said:

He was all pulling her onto his lap like he's her protector and giving talking heads about how he knows the challenge family is the only family Tonya has

Hmmmmm sounds like grooming to me. 

I liked Tonya from her first appearance on RW. I was always rooting for her. I hope she is doing well and staying away from the sporlight. 

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, lasu said:

I almost stopped watching The Ruins, because everything with Tonya is so fucking awful.  It's disgusting to watch her edit, when I know they chose that edit while also knowing she was sexually assaulted on the show.  The shaming is awful (and wow on a flashback of Veronica accusing Tonya of masturbating).  She is clearly not ok, and she shouldn't have been cast on this season.  She was so clearly unwell entering the show, and then to get sexually assaulted?  To see a damaged person damaged even further, just for the fun of it?  Fuck.  But probably the most stomach turning part was after Tonya got into the fight with Veronica and was completely falling apart, was Evan "comforting" her.  Seriously, you should my face right now.  He was all pulling her onto his lap like he's her protector and giving talking heads about how he knows the challenge family is the only family Tonya has, and I'm just sitting there like YOU RAPED HER WITH A FUCKING TOOTHBRUSH.  I feel like that must have made things even worse when she found out about her assault, that the person who was "comforting" her and "protecting" her was the person she needed the most protection from.  Fucking sociopath.

When I really think about this it makes it hard for me to justify still watching this show. 

[Teriyaki Terror]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

When I really think about this it makes it hard for me to justify still watching this show. 

I had to quit when they started, and I quote Queen Coral, "scraping the barrel" by letting the AYTO cast on.

Also, it just lost it's charm. Katie Doyle posted about the earlier seasons when they would go out site seeing and them it turned into everyone locked in a house as a social experiment.  

[peachmangosteen]

I quit after Free Agents but then I came back for Dirty 30 and now I'm just back in the habit again. I need to try to kick it again because it's just really not fun anymore and yea it's hard to justify it when you think about how horrible so many of the contestants and Production are.

[Jillibean]

Just to put this out there, cast members who were present for the incident swear that the toothbrush never penetrated Tonya, including Susie and Sarah (and while I hate Susie and Sarah, I also can’t imagine either of them lying about this, especially Sarah who was a victim of sexual abuse). That said, I know they both like Kenny and dislike Tonya, so there’s at least some bias. In their version, Kenny and Evan took a picture holding a toothbrush in front of a naked Tonya, suggestively. That’s obviously still a form of sexual assault and is completely unacceptable, but I did want to point out that there is more than one story about what occurred during that incident, and I don’t know if we’ll ever know what truly happened.

Regardless, Evan acting like he was some sort of protector of Tonya, as though she were cognitively impaired or a small child, is disturbing on many levels. And whatever brief clarity he had (my guess is he never had any and it was all about how it looked to the viewers) clearly didn’t last, because he and Kenny were nonstop verbally assaulting Sarah for the rest of the season. The Ruins is a rough season and, along with the Island, a low point for me of this franchise. The behavior on those two seasons was particularly disgusting. 

[lasu]

There's actually a pretty good deep dive on this forum here on this topic.  Now, my personal opinion is that I do think they inserted the toothbrush into her vagina.  I think there is almost no question they took a picture with the toothbrush next to her vagina.  Susie and Sarah have both said there was "sexual misconduct" but "no touching."  No touching could easily include insertion without actually touching her with anything but the toothbrush.  I think Susie and Sarah both though Tonya had "it" coming, regardless of which version is the "it."  I also think because they are actually both sexual assault survivors, they may have simply seen her assault as "less than" rising up to the level of their assaults, or simply that her assault wasn't in the same category because of Tonya's own problematic behavior.  Keep in mind, Johnny apparently told Susie she should speak out specifically because her word would carry more weight as a survivor, and MTV CERTAINLY blamed Tonya for "not preventing her injures." Also, Susie and Sarah have played coy about exactly what DID happen, despite the fact they have no obligation, especially now that they aren't coming back, not to spell out exactly what happened.  I also think it's entirely possible they might have missed a moment when insertion happened.

I'd also love to know definitively who told Tonya.  I've seen reports it was Kim and that it was Wes.  So I'd love to hear from both of them, and from Katie as well, who apparently was interviewed by one of the lawyers.

So, at the end of the day, while my PERSONAL opinion is that they probably did insert the toothbrush at the worst, and at "best", "just" took pictures with the toothbrush next to her vagina.  Honestly, if I found out it was just the latter and there was no insertion, it actually wouldn't improve my opinion of them in anyway.  Complete and utter scumbags.

16 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Regardless, Evan acting like he was some sort of protector of Tonya, as though she were cognitively impaired or a small child, is disturbing on many levels. And whatever brief clarity he had (my guess is he never had any and it was all about how it looked to the viewers) clearly didn’t last

I think he just realized they went far too far with someone far too damaged, and it was going to look awful to viewers (especially if you think some of the toothbrush footage may make it on air) and it was damage control.  

[Jillibean]

6 hours ago, lasu said:

I’d also love to know definitively who told Tonya.  I've seen reports it was Kim and that it was Wes.  So I'd love to hear from both of them, and from Katie as well, who apparently was interviewed by one of the lawyers.

So, at the end of the day, while my PERSONAL opinion is that they probably did insert the toothbrush at the worst, and at "best", "just" took pictures with the toothbrush next to her vagina.  Honestly, if I found out it was just the latter and there was no insertion, it actually wouldn't improve my opinion of them in anyway.  Complete and utter scumbags.

I think he just realized they went far too far with someone far too damaged, and it was going to look awful to viewers (especially if you think some of the toothbrush footage may make it on air) and it was damage control.  

It’s definitely been hashed out many times over, and for good reason. I was referring to the fact that Susie and Sarah addressed the incident on their podcast a couple of years ago and in that venue were straightforward about what happened from their perspective. They didn’t seem to know who told Tonya (in their version, Tonya was specifically alerted to the fact that there was a photograph), but they suspect it was Wes. For all the reasons you mentioned I don’t take them at their word, and as you said, there’s no situation here that isn’t disgusting, deplorable, and frankly horrifying. 

Also, maybe this is a good place to add that while they didn’t, you know, assault anyone and it’s pathetic that that’s the standard we have to go by, I can’t stand Sarah or Susie. 
 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Jillibean
Grammar helps!

[luckyroll3]

I don't believe Susie or Sarah, particularly because Susie was just as much as a bully, sometimes nastier, than those guys were, and Sarah was more interested in getting in with the cool kids than stopping a lot of the shit going on. I kinda feel that they're sticking hard to their version of the story because if it was just this other thing, it doesn't make those guys seem as bad and by association, they (S&S) aren't as bad by having and keeping friendships with people who would do that.  And I haven't seen that season in a very long time, but I have the memory that Susie wasn't even around for the entire incident, so Johnny pushing her to speak up because of her "experience" always rubbed me the wrong fucking way because he was trying to use her and that experience to absolve the shit his dumb-ass friends did.  It's also one of the reasons I have never been a fan of Johnny's because I also totally believe he was there watching the whole thing go down and probably egging them, but keeping his distance so that his hands were "clean". 

[Jillibean]

On 10/29/2020 at 7:39 AM, luckyroll3 said:

I don't believe Susie or Sarah, particularly because Susie was just as much as a bully, sometimes nastier, than those guys were, and Sarah was more interested in getting in with the cool kids than stopping a lot of the shit going on. I kinda feel that they're sticking hard to their version of the story because if it was just this other thing, it doesn't make those guys seem as bad and by association, they (S&S) aren't as bad by having and keeping friendships with people who would do that.  And I haven't seen that season in a very long time, but I have the memory that Susie wasn't even around for the entire incident, so Johnny pushing her to speak up because of her "experience" always rubbed me the wrong fucking way because he was trying to use her and that experience to absolve the shit his dumb-ass friends did.  It's also one of the reasons I have never been a fan of Johnny's because I also totally believe he was there watching the whole thing go down and probably egging them, but keeping his distance so that his hands were "clean". 

The consensus seems to be that Johnny wasn’t involved.  Honestly, I think believing that he understood enough to know to not get his hands dirty here might be giving him too much credit. It implies that he would have had some comprehension that their behavior was problematic to the extent that he shouldn’t actively participate, and I’m skeptical. I think the simplest explanation for why he wasn’t involved was that he wasn’t there, or was there and not paying attention. 

That said, I remember thinking Johnny was the worst cast member in those old seasons. Watching it back now, my perspective has changed a bit. I actually think Evan and Kenny are worse than he is. Kenny is equally if not more inflammatory in what he said to people, the difference being that Johnny said things in anger or frustration, while Kenny specifically set out to hurt people like Tonya or Sarah with his words and tried to be as cruel as possible as a game strategy or just to entertain himself. I also think Johnny basically owned his role as an asshole and never tried to pretend to be a hero, which is something Evan did constantly while being a “confessional gangster,” as they call it now. He was a complete suck up to people’s faces, then would get behind the camera and say really obnoxious, demeaning things about them. Kenny also seemed to want to appeal to the audience as a good and fair guy. I don’t think Johnny ever bothered to try to get people to think he was fair or kind. It might have earned him fewer friends at the time, but I honestly think it held up better in retrospect than Kenny’s constant negging approach that now reads as though he was everyone’s semi-abusive boyfriend. 

[lasu]

I think that Challenges will overall become less problematic, because the Challengers are seeing that even "but I didn't mean it that way!" statements will get you booted.  The contestants that come on now are super aware of their "brands" as well.  

That said, the real ugliness happens when there are large co-ed teams.  It's not as bad if it's partners, but otherwise if the final teams competing are mixed gender, the real misogyny comes out.  Women start getting referred to as "fat" that needs to be "trimmed."  If you view your female teammates as someone who is going to drag you down and potentially cause you to lose a large amount of money, you are going to resent those women, and the more you resent someone, the more likely it is you will treat that person fairly and with respect.  I'm not excusing their behavior, it's abhorrent, and it's not like that mentality hasn't been directed at men, like Eric, but that mixed gender team dynamic really should just be avoided at all costs.

[BK1978]

I never liked Adam going back to Paris.  I always felt he was just a lame wannabe, but now after reading what he allegedly did above, well shit I honestly cannot think of anything to say about that.  Piece of human garbage comes to mind, but that seems to tame.

Did what happened to KellyAnne happen on a show or was it at a meet and greet?  If it happened on a show I am wondering if there was evidence of what Adam allegedly did.  I am not sure what the statute of limitations are when it comes to rape, but if they could get Bill Cosby on stuff he did in the 80's I am sure they could go after Adam if there is evidence.

It is interesting that KellyAnne and Parissa are now friends after the way KellyAnne treated Parissa in the house.  Wasn't KA the one who tried to spit on Parissa after that other chick got kicked out of the house?

 

[choclatechip45]

On 10/27/2020 at 1:37 PM, lasu said:

There's actually a pretty good deep dive on this forum here on this topic.  Now, my personal opinion is that I do think they inserted the toothbrush into her vagina.  I think there is almost no question they took a picture with the toothbrush next to her vagina.  Susie and Sarah have both said there was "sexual misconduct" but "no touching."  No touching could easily include insertion without actually touching her with anything but the toothbrush.  I think Susie and Sarah both though Tonya had "it" coming, regardless of which version is the "it."  I also think because they are actually both sexual assault survivors, they may have simply seen her assault as "less than" rising up to the level of their assaults, or simply that her assault wasn't in the same category because of Tonya's own problematic behavior.  Keep in mind, Johnny apparently told Susie she should speak out specifically because her word would carry more weight as a survivor, and MTV CERTAINLY blamed Tonya for "not preventing her injures." Also, Susie and Sarah have played coy about exactly what DID happen, despite the fact they have no obligation, especially now that they aren't coming back, not to spell out exactly what happened.  I also think it's entirely possible they might have missed a moment when insertion happened.

I'd also love to know definitively who told Tonya.  I've seen reports it was Kim and that it was Wes.  So I'd love to hear from both of them, and from Katie as well, who apparently was interviewed by one of the lawyers.

So, at the end of the day, while my PERSONAL opinion is that they probably did insert the toothbrush at the worst, and at "best", "just" took pictures with the toothbrush next to her vagina.  Honestly, if I found out it was just the latter and there was no insertion, it actually wouldn't improve my opinion of them in anyway.  Complete and utter scumbags.

I think he just realized they went far too far with someone far too damaged, and it was going to look awful to viewers (especially if you think some of the toothbrush footage may make it on air) and it was damage control.  

Late to this, but I always thought it was Katie Doyle since Tonya's lawyers tried to get her to testify.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/109406646/Tonya-Cooley-seeks-the-testimony-of-Katie-Doyle

[luckyroll3]

Heads up that Inferno II and The Duel were just added to Netflix.

[lasu]

I think Inferno II isn't one of the seasons on CBS All Access, so that's one for me over the holiday break!

[Treehugger9]

Just finished rewatching The Inferno II on Netflix. Man I forgot what an insufferable asshole CT was. I also forgot just how hilarious and likeable Dan is. Bring back Dan!

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, Treehugger9 said:

Just finished rewatching The Inferno II on Netflix. Man I forgot what an insufferable asshole CT was. I also forgot just how hilarious and likeable Dan is. Bring back Dan!

Here are my recaps from back in the day. I remember CT being an irredeemable asshole. Also, I wound up turning on Dan in the middle of the season.

ETA: I wrote this article about COVID and The Challenge months ago. Dan volunteering to work as a nurse in New York played a part of it. It's a little morbid and fearful, to be honest.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Lantern7

[Michichick]

I’m watching Inferno II for the first time. I knew Karamo Brown had been on Real World but didn’t know he’d been on a Challenge. If not for the name I’m not sure I’d have recognized him. Something about his face seemed different back then, aside from the age difference. It was amusing to see that his positive, “you can do it” attitude that he shows on Queer Eye didn’t seem to be part of his personality 15 years ago on the Challenge.

[Girl in a Cardigan]

I didn't see a standalone topic for "The Duel," so I just had to driveby post that I had totally forgotten that Johnny Bananas (sorry, John) got bounced in the first Duel against Tyler. TJ was oddly prophetic when he said, "I'm sure I'll see you again on one of these challenges."

It was just weird to see Bananas being humble and accepting of his fate as a rookie instead of raging against how dare anyone vote him into the elimination.