S03.E16: Kota Longboards

[Tara Ariano]

A skateboard company in Denver is plagued by a high employee-turnover rate and a limited product line.

[Primetimer]

And other not-quite-burning questions about 'KOTA Longboards.'

Read the story

[septicptx0104]

Based on the previews, I knew this would be a walk-away episode and to be perfectly honest, I don't blame Marcus for walking in the slightest. Mike looked like he just didn't give two shits about the business or the employees. Him reneging the deal gave me flashbacks to the Jacob Maarse episode and that's where I was like "Walk away Marcus. NOW." 

 

No Profit for the next two weeks. :(

[eddy]

I feel bad for the guy who kicked in $50k and works at the shop.  Will he ever see his money again?

 

As far as Marcus goes, looks like he lost some time and travel money, but unlike some other episodes gone bust, at least he didn't purchase new machinery, renovate, etc.  Guess he's learned to wait before writing checks.

 

The owner?  He seems more comfortable running a small garage type of business.  Unfortunately he's bleeding money and not likely to attract an investor (at least one that watches the show).

 

Win or lose, lessons to be learned for the viewers.

[ketose]

Is the walking away more common now? I watched the West End Coffee yesterday episode and the same thing happened. I'd prefer to see how he fixes these businesses rather than see idiots who can't run a business.

[septicptx0104]

Is the walking away more common now? I watched the West End Coffee yesterday episode and the same thing happened. I'd prefer to see how he fixes these businesses rather than see idiots who can't run a business.

To the best of my knowledge, these are the ones where Marcus walked:

Jacob Maarse

Planet Popcorn

LA Dogworks

Worldwide Trailers

Skullduggery

Swanson's

West End Coffee

FuelFoods

Da Lobsta

[eddy]

" ... To the best of my knowledge, these are the ones where Marcus walked"

 

And I can think of a few more where he should have walked away :)   But yeah - what a toxic list of businesses!  You can fix Product and Process, but People?  Not so easy.

[caligirl50]

I thought Marcus went back to Planet Popcorn. And he ended up doing some business with Worldwide Trailers though he didn't become a partner.

[clod]

and didn't the Lobsta guy turn down Marcus's offer?    I would not call that walking away.

 

one thing was good about that.   I *finally* saw someone decline his offer!   

[mojito]

 

And other not-quite-burning questions about 'KOTA Longboards.'

Does anyone else find these Sara D. Bunting articles to be rambling and muddled?

[attica]

Not in the least. I may not always agree with her (I think her point about the viability of Kota's niche market would be on point for another industry, but not necessarily skateboards, for instance), but I've been reading her stuff here and elsewhere for what, 15 years now? (Yikes, I'm old) I am quite fond of her conversational style, including when she digresses.

[Gregg247]

This was a perfect example of a company that has everything going for it (great quality, eager market, good people in place) only to have it ruined by an oblivious owner.  I kept hoping that Marcus could talk some sense into Mike and get this thing turned around, but Mike just kept retreating back to his previous, failed strategy.  

I wonder if, after watching last night's episodes, Mike suddenly sees what the rest of us viewers did, and contacts Marcus and begs for another chance.  I hope he does.  I'm not a skateboard person, but this was a company I would have invested in, so I hope Mike can get himself together and allow Marcus to make him rich.  

 

I'm holding out hope on this one.

[qtpye]

Are those long boards much easier to maneuver then regular skate boards?  Did I hear Marcus correctly in the beginning that they could be used as transportation?

[KHenry14]

The fighter pilot seems to think he's not wrong about anything, and the personnel issues are all the fault of the employees. But much like Amy's Baking Company on Kitchen Nightmare's, when you have 100% turnover in a short period of time, it's not all lousy employees, you must look into the mirror for an answer. And eventually it's all going to crash and burn, (Unless you have a sugar daddy pumping in money into a losing business) 

 

But I wonder if much like the battling Trailer people, if the Fighter Pilot will take Marcus' ideas and run with them. 

[attica]

I suspect it will be Fighter Pilot's wife. The sooner Fighter Pilot himself leaves the company (or the running of it) to others, the better off everyone would be.

[FastLou]

L&O Business: I think Poppy Catering could use some help. The people are smart, the product looks good, but their process could use some work.

[clod]

L&O Business

 

what does that mean?

[citychic]

Does anyone else find these Sara D. Bunting articles to be rambling and muddled?

I do. It's difficult for me to read articles that have added punctuation or misspelled words for effect. I'm a fast reader so I only read one or two letters a word.

[Kiss my mutt]

If you make a shorter longboard, does it effectively become a skateboard? I only really know the difference then.

So glad Marcus walked away from the ballsack but I feel bad for his employees.m

[Amarsir]

Well I'll give this boss credit for one thing: he was apparently smart enough to keep his a-hole behavior off-camera.  Everything we saw was him seeming reasonable, but then every break there had apparently been an issue behind-the-scenes.

 

What I would have loved to see is Marcus say "On second thought, I'm not going to build a longboard shop with you. I'm going to build one against you. I'm taking the building you didn't want, the employees who can't stand you, the contracts you couldn't have gotten, and the money that would have gone to you."  But then I think the guy knew that was always a risk which is why there was some sort of application technique he didn't teach anyone.  Still, it would have made my week.

 

and didn't the Lobsta guy turn down Marcus's offer?    I would not call that walking away.

 

one thing was good about that.   I *finally* saw someone decline his offer!   

I suspect Marcus knew when he made the offer that the guy wasn't going to accept a 1% share. So I don't know if I would count that. Heck, the Skullduggery guys probably came closer to a rejection that surprised Marcus. (In the sleaziest posssible way, of course. At least Lobsta's rejection was honest and up front, even if his accounting was a little sketchy.)

 

Does anyone else find these Sara D. Bunting articles to be rambling and muddled?

 

 

I do. It's difficult for me to read articles that have added punctuation or misspelled words for effect. I'm a fast reader so I only read one or two letters a word.

 

The style here is meant to be snarky, entertaining, POV-style pieces. So I can absolutely see someone liking her writing or not. It's a personal preference.  Perhaps you'd prefer this author's style:

 

http://www.cnbcfix.com/marcus-lemonis-profit-cnbc.html

 

I've been reading that blog for a few months now since someone on reddit linked it to me and while I don't always agree with the author I find the point of view interesting.

[citychic]

Well I'll give this boss credit for one thing: he was apparently smart enough to keep his a-hole behavior off-camera.  Everything we saw was him seeming reasonable, but then every break there had apparently been an issue behind-the-scenes.

 

What I would have loved to see is Marcus say "On second thought, I'm not going to build a longboard shop with you. I'm going to build one against you. I'm taking the building you didn't want, the employees who can't stand you, the contracts you couldn't have gotten, and the money that would have gone to you."  But then I think the guy knew that was always a risk which is why there was some sort of application technique he didn't teach anyone.  Still, it would have made my week.

 

I suspect Marcus knew when he made the offer that the guy wasn't going to accept a 1% share. So I don't know if I would count that. Heck, the Skullduggery guys probably came closer to a rejection that surprised Marcus. (In the sleaziest posssible way, of course. At least Lobsta's rejection was honest and up front, even if his accounting was a little sketchy.)

 

 

 

 

The style here is meant to be snarky, entertaining, POV-style pieces. So I can absolutely see someone liking her writing or not. It's a personal preference.  Perhaps you'd prefer this author's style:

 

http://www.cnbcfix.com/marcus-lemonis-profit-cnbc.html

 

I've been reading that blog for a few months now since someone on reddit linked it to me and while I don't always agree with the author I find the point of view interesting.

That really is a good read, it's more my style. Thanks for linking to it, I'll be following more blogs over there, I really like the numbers side of things and Marcus explains things in terms I find very easy to understand.

[fib]

L&O Business: I think Poppy Catering could use some help. The people are smart, the product looks good, but their process could use some work.

 

what does that mean?

 

Law & Order business.  Its a reference to a classic episode from the show involving a catering biz that served as a front for a prostitution ring.  Beautiful product, smart owner, but the problem with the process is that the women serving the clients contracted AIDS from the work and spread it to the clients. (Its also a relatively subtle reference - i had to google bits of it to understand the snark). 

 

I suspect it will be Fighter Pilot's wife. The sooner Fighter Pilot himself leaves the company (or the running of it) to others, the better off everyone would be.

 

I agree.  She seemed more human than he did.  The FP seems to treat his artisan staff like grunts: replaceable.  But they may just have gotten enough tips and ok press to come out ok.  

Edited December 18, 2015 by fib

[mojito]

 

The style here is meant to be snarky, entertaining, POV-style pieces.

I can appreciate snarky. I can appreciate stream-of-consciousness writing. Actually, I love that stuff. This, though, is a different story:

 

 

Granted, we don't know at this point the extent of the problems he's having retaining staff, and with the caveat that I am a nationally-ranked control freak who named a fantasy-football team Dave Parker's Weight Clause?

What does this phrase with the question mark mean? It's a cringe-worthy, nonsensical attempt at wit that takes away from the point she was trying to make. If you're going to go off into the weeds, at least provide a path for us to follow.

[cooksdelight]

Fighter pilot jocks think they are God's gift to the earth. This guy is no different. I feel really bad for the guy who invested $50K.

[mojito]

I finally got around to watching this episode.

 

This was a perfect example of a company that has everything going for it (great quality, eager market, good people in place) only to have it ruined by an oblivious owner.

That was pretty frustrating.

 

 

Are those long boards much easier to maneuver then regular skate boards?  Did I hear Marcus correctly in the beginning that they could be used as transportation?

I thought Mike remarked that the shorter boards turned much quicker. I would think that would make them better for transportation, that plus the fact that they hog up less sidewalk and backpack space.

 

 

Well I'll give this boss credit for one thing: he was apparently smart enough to keep his a-hole behavior off-camera.  Everything we saw was him seeming reasonable, but then every break there had apparently been an issue behind-the-scenes.

 

So true. At first, I thought this guy was hard to figure out because he wasn't yelling at anyone, wasn't arguing a whole lot with Marcus. But then, I realized two things.

 

1. The ex-employees talked about being badmouthed, and the badmouthing was coming from Mike (and maybe his wife). He's non-confrontational and too chickenshit to confront people.

 

2. Mike downplayed the importance of the skill level of his employees when that key employee (Chris?) left. It seems that because his labor pool was not terribly skilled, he just thought of them as replaceable when he should have appreciated the continuity and loyalty that a stable workforce offers.

 

Too bad. I would need a skateboard that came with brakes, pads galore, and a back-up hip, but I sure liked the product.

[nobodyyoucare]

 

I would think that would make them better for transportation

Actually the opposite. Longer boards are faster and one  can use a special speed to increase speed or brake.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longboarding#Transportation

[Process]

While I agree that KOTA and The Profit are not a good fit, I think that the sparks we saw were a direct outcome of  the "hurry up and make a deal" mentality of the show.  I think in reality, a deal would be a little slower in coming and both parties would get better due diligence.  People under duress will likely make a deal they will regret as they come to fully understand it.  Likewise, this is not the first time Mr. Lemonis has expressed disappointment that he did not understand something prior to to the "hand shake."  These disappointments are avoidable as business parties get to know each other and have real conversations.

 

On this episode, the Show (and it is a Show regardless of what Mr. Lemonis said on the Precision Graphix episode) is not sharing enough with us.  Or they are only sharing what they took the time to find out (which gets pushed into the Show format of filming).  I have serious questions about whether the volume of the business (600 boards annually) was accurately stated given the number of workers seen (eight).  Also, the Show did not really talk about the owners work with Veteran's groups and that these are some of the obligations mentioned.  A few minutes of research shows this involvement.

 

These questions don't mean that Mr. Lemonis should enter a partnership with the owners; I think the final outcome was best for all parties.  In business there is not just one solution to a problem.  There are many possible solutions and KOTA is going down a different road from the one Mr. Lemonis laid out.  Likely the company's valuation will be less than with Mr. Lemonis, but it can still be a going concern if the owners work it correctly.

[mojito]

 

Actually the opposite. Longer boards are faster and one  can use a special speed to increase speed or brake.

I was thinking of transportation in terms of commuting to work, which can involve sidewalks with pedestrians (you'd want a smaller footprint), buses, rail, backpack, etc. Wasn't thinking about empty streets and park paths. 

 

 

When they were with the skateboard guru (sorry, I don't remember his name), Marcus was a lot more comfortable with the guy than Mike was---I sniff a little bit of eau-de-arrogance from an ex-pilot who feels  bit better than everyone else (possibly with good reason, but he could at least pretend a little humility when he is with other people).

The guy wanted to get rich off his great skateboard, but his scope was just too limited. He clearly had a tough time thinking about extending his market. He wanted so badly to create his market.

[attica]

I don't think Mike really wanted a business that would appeal to the hoi polloi.  He enjoyed created an exclusive item that would appeal to a demographic that greatly resembled himself

 

I agree with you. I just don't think that's a viable model for longboards. I'm thinking of the fancy pogo-stick guys that went on Shark Tank, wanting to expand to the mass-market. The Sharks told them they'd be better off focusing only on the high-end product, because there's a market of extreme-sports aficionados who would support the pricey stuff and no competition for that customer, whereas the lower priced stuff is already well-served by competitors. There aren't enough of rich older dudes to support Kota's product line, and no athletes lining up for it, either. All the competitive sports are on shorter boards. I think Dyrdek's opinion  ("Do you not want to do well?"), as someone who knows the whole gamut of board customer, is the one to heed here.

[cooksdelight]

HA! All of you are so right about him trying too hard to create a market of his own generation. I know a former fighter jet pilot, showed him this episode, he said "I'd never in my life want one of those...."

It's the younger demographic he's missing out on, who don't have the money to buy it at the price point this guy is selling them for.

[fivestone]

Are those long boards much easier to maneuver then regular skate boards?  Did I hear Marcus correctly in the beginning that they could be used as transportation?

 

Basically, yes. When I lived in Portland, it wasn't unusual to see folks longboarding their way to work.

[KevType9]

I was thinking of transportation in terms of commuting to work, which can involve sidewalks with pedestrians (you'd want a smaller footprint), buses, rail, backpack, etc. Wasn't thinking about empty streets and park paths. 

 

As someone who longboard commutes to school (~10-15 minute ride), let me offer my two cents. Longboards have bigger and softer wheels than a skateboard, allowing it to go much faster and further with less effort. Also, the bigger length gives you a solid foundation on which to stand on.

 

If you've never longboarded before, you'd be surprised how maneuverable the things are. If you're imagining a skateboard trying to turn then you have the wrong idea. 

 

In the end, the debate between a longer vs smaller longboard for commuting is up for debate. A longer one allows you to have bigger wheels, which increases speed and minimizes effort, as I mentioned. But a smaller one gets you some convenience in portability. In the end a longboard gets you somewhere in between a skateboard and a bike in terms of speed and effort.

[mojito]

Got it. Again. The longboard is superior for maneuverability and comfort. I'll remember that next time I commute to school.  ; )

Edited January 3, 2016 by mojito

[septicptx0104]

What I would have loved to see is Marcus say "On second thought, I'm not going to build a longboard shop with you. I'm going to build one against you. I'm taking the building you didn't want, the employees who can't stand you, the contracts you couldn't have gotten, and the money that would have gone to you."  But then I think the guy knew that was always a risk which is why there was some sort of application technique he didn't teach anyone.  Still, it would have made my week.

 

THIS! Reminds me of one of the deleted scenes from the West End Coffee episode where John had met with brokers and refused to sell so Marcus told him that he was now going to compete with them and would make it his business to kick their business's ass. That should've ended that specific episode and a scene like this would've been awesome.

[Josiah Bounderby]

Ms. Bunting is a stylistic virtuoso. I have such respect for the formal aspects of her writing -- the sometimes idiosyncratic syntax, her love of long clauses, and the ways in which her biting tone is balanced by her abiding Humanism.

And this is internet writing, people. If you don't know who Dave Parker is, well, then you didn't get a reference. No tears allowed. If you want total clarity in your prose, go pick up a copy of US fucking A Today.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Josiah Bounderby

[RemoteControlFreak]

Does anyone else find these Sara D. Bunting articles to be rambling and muddled?

Not usually, but in the case of this particular summary, yes.

 

Getting back to Kota.  The owner had the all-too-common affliction of being in love with his product and blind to the realities of the marketplace.  Hand-crafted longboards are a niche product. We know this. But add the pervasive military symbolism and it's a niche within a niche.  I mean, I'd buy a long board but I'm not going to buy one that's plastered with American flags and vintage Air Force logos.  The owner is very proud of his military service and that's his right. But if he wants to sell products, he's losing customers by wrapping his boards around a narrow ideology and set of causes. See his website for an example: http://www.kotalongboards.com/ It's like you have to have to adopt an entire ideology just to buy a damned skateboard. I'd go elsewhere.

Edited January 12, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak