S03.E10: Some Things Are Black And White

[Sheenieb]

 

In the Season 3 finale, Mary Jane agrees to go out with GG; and finds herself a topic on "The Real" in a segment on interracial dating. In other events, David's mom talks with Mary Jane; Kara has trouble at work; and Niecy has a run-in with the police.

 

[announcergirl]

The way MJ set up CeCe was brilliant, but I can't fully believe CeCe didn't catch on sooner. I mean, she's streetwise.

Marisol setup Kara like a pro. Wonder is she really was sleeping with the boss and he told her how.

I don't like that they showed a bad example of a cop stop to try to illustrate force. In no way was Neicy's actions appropriate at any point. This undermines the true struggle. Somebody feel free to enlighten me if I am wrong and fix my thinking.

[Sheenieb]

This was a strong finale. Mary Jane deserves some props for the setup. She really had me going there for a second. That was masterful. It's about time she smartened up. CeCe flew too close to the sun.

 

We didn't know much about MJ's white hookup. I don't even remember his name, did we ever learn it? This is one of the many times I find MJ to be ridiculous and tiresome. She claims to want love, yet, she threw away getting to know someone because he wouldn't understand the struggle? Listen, I get that it's a legitimate concern. I will never say that it's better to date within your race, but it is easier. However, her hook up seemed interested in knowing what was up. But she wouldn't be Mary Jane if she didn't sabotage herself.

 

I didn't feel sorry for Kara at all. She's been nothing but antagonizing and bitchy to Marisol from the jump, so I'm glad the chickens came home to roost. Marisol did nothing except be in Kara's vicinity, and Kara was threatened by another Latina coming on her turf. It isn't Marisol's fault that Kara had to fight and struggle to get to the top. The whole point of going through tough shit is to pave the way for the younger generation. They could've been allies, but Kara took it to a place where it didn't have to go, and then had the nerve to be upset that Marisol didn't come to her? Please. Marisol did just what she had to do. Go straight to HR. Kara got played lovely. She should tip CeCe's hat to Marisol as well.

 

Ok, this might be an unpopular opinion, but whatever. There were no winners in the altercation between Niecy and the cop. He was wrong for pulling her out of the car and tasering, however, Niecy was silly. Your children are in the car. Why are you puffing up your chest and catching an attitude? Just show your license, take your ticket, and grieve it afterwards. I'm not saying don't ask why you're being pulled over, but she was legit about to drive away like she was having a fight with her boyfriend and not a cop.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Sheenieb

[scruffy73]

The way MJ set up CeCe was brilliant, but I can't fully believe CeCe didn't catch on sooner. I mean, she's streetwise.

Marisol setup Kara like a pro. Wonder is she really was sleeping with the boss and he told her how.

I don't like that they showed a bad example of a cop stop to try to illustrate force. In no way was Neicy's actions appropriate at any point. This undermines the true struggle. Somebody feel free to enlighten me if I am wrong and fix my thinking.

I didn't think Niecy was inappropriate. She asked why

she was being pulled over then asked if it was against the law to listen to loud music. She should not have tried to drive off but there was no reason at all for the cop to drag her out of her car much less tase her. The whole thing was bad on the cop in my opinion. Bad stop, pulling her out the car, tasing. I look forward to seeing what MJ does with it.

Speaking of looking forward to something, I can't wait to see Kara vs Marisol play out. Kara was wrong for insinuating Marisol was sleeping her way in and it is biting her in the ass. She had to know Marisol wasn't going to let that go. the younger "kids" don't "take it" like the previous generation did. They go straight for HR and the boss. None of this "let's settle it between us and be cool" stuff and Kara can't be mad that she tried it with a chick that isn't just cool with it.

[sereion]

Two brilliant set ups from Marisol and MJ.

CeCe thought that she got away with extorting MJ and got too comfortable by trying grab more money from. I'm surprised she fell for it. Anyway, I'm glad she's getting what she deserves. Had she not been greedy, she and MJ could have been friends.

As much as I like Kara, she had it coming. She was nasty to Marisol for no reason other than she was a young, attractive Latina, and was perceived as a threat. Now, it's coming back to bite her on arse. It's a shame, because she could have been a mentor to Marisol, but she got too arrogant now her job is at risk

Both CeCe and Kara's stories parallel as both got too big for their britches; played the bully, yet they underestimated their enemy and got burned badly.

I liked how MJ checked the intern; I get that Talk Back needs more meatier stories, but the bottom line is MJ is HER boss, and she is not in position to challenge her on what stories the show should use. As an intern, she should stay in her for now.

I would appreciate the cop scene of Neicy was more cooperative. This is not to say that she deserved being tased, but she being rude to the officer--and tried to roll the window up--which was STUPID. Had she remained calm, this situation may have been avoided. What's worse, even if she were to file a complaint, it would probably be dismissed as she will be deemed as the aggressor. I do wonder how Patrick and PJ would respond. I also wondered if Paul Sr. taught their sons how to handle police--which I'm sure he did.

Edited December 16, 2015 by sereion

[Noirprncess]

Although there are some loose threads, this episode felt a lot like a finale to the entire series.

I get what MJ was saying to Mr Club (IMDB says his name is Eddie). Interracial dating is not for everyone. It's good that she figured it out early on. I'm sure the pressure to discuss a fledgling relationship publicly for ratings didn't help since she hadn't even decided if they were a couple or not.

Kara had found herself in a fine mess.

I loved the Cece set up. She got too greedy in her hustle to see what was coming.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Noirprncess

[drivethroo]

 

As much as I like Kara, she had it coming. She was nasty to Marisol for no reason other than she was a young, attractive Latina, and was perceived as a threat.

 

But Marisol WAS a threat.  Kara correctly perceived Marisol as a threat.  Where Kara went wrong was underestimating Marisol as a simple thirsty newbie trying to be on the come up, that she could talk to any old kind of way.  Marisol was not having it and got Kara right on out of the way.  Kara's not going to be back at SNC or if she is, in a very very diminished capacity.  SNC is not trying to have a racial/sexual harassment lawsuit on their hands, especially after they spent money covering up Mary Jane's accident & fixing her face.   Marisol IS ruthless and THAT'S what Kara picked up on when Marisol came on board.  She just went about handling Marisol the wrong way.

 

Mary Jane's interns need to sit down but that's the luxury of youth, thinking you know everything and that you're gonna do things the way YOU want to do it.  It's cool when you're a college kid who's momma is supporting you to say "I ain't gonna do this or that" or "F what SNC wants, we need to do THESE type of shows instead."  It's quite another thing when you have bills to pay & mouths to feed.  When Smart Mouth Intern gets her own show she can run things the way she wants but right now you're an INTERN so have a seat & do as you're told or go back to class.

 

That brings me to Neicy.  1st, I thought when you left the dealership you had license plates/tags/registration on the vehicle before you left the lot, so Neicy's car not having plates sounds bogus.  BUT, just give the man the license & registration.  You can ask why you've been pulled over, get badge # and all that later. Popping off at the police & trying to drive off is a NO.  She's lucky the police didn't shoot her instead of just tasing her.  Neicy's got a smart mouth and popped off at the wrong person.  I doubt it will teach her anything.

 

Good for Mary Jane for passing David by without saying a word.  All that needed to be said was summed up in that little baby he was carrying.

 

Cece got full of herself and wanted more and more from Mary Jane.  It had to stop.  If Cece had just been satisfied with the $25,000 and went away, or even if she didn't go away but didn't try to extort more money, she wouldn't be getting the FBI to tip her hat for her in lockup today.  I don't think we've seen the last of Cece, though.

 

 

[Ohwell]

I thought when you drove off the lot the vehicle had to have licence plates, tags, registration as well.   That didn't make sense.  In any event, people--especially black people--should know by now that in a traffic stop, it's best to not mouth off and follow the cop's instructions, no matter how pissed off you might be.  At that point, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong.  What matters is the cop has the power.  My main goal would be to stay alive and if I have a beef, discuss it later in a safe environment.  (I speak from personal experience; it happened many years ago but I will never forget.)  I'm sorry Niecy got tased, but she was a fool.  

 

Hats off to Mary Jane for finally punking CeCe.  I do hope that's the last we've seen of CeCe but I fear it's not.

 

I don't really care about the Kara/Marisol dustup but one thing I will say is that I'm tired of Kara.  I'm tired of the head-wagging, neck-rolling, finger wagging, in your face mannerisms.  I don't know if the actress is like that IRL but she just makes me nervous and annoyed watching her.

 

We didn't know much about MJ's white hookup. I don't even remember his name, did we ever learn it? This is one of the many times I find MJ to be ridiculous and tiresome. She claims to want love, yet, she threw away getting to know someone because he wouldn't understand the struggle? Listen, I get that it's a legitimate concern. I will never say that it's better to date within your race, but it is easier. However, her hook up seemed interested in knowing what was up. But she wouldn't be Mary Jane if she didn't sabotage herself.

 

I agree with all of this.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

I thought it was a pretty good episode.  Does anyone know why this season only has 10 episodes while the last had 12?  Can't believe that was a Season Finale.  They can't do a SF like that without knowing for sure they have a 4th season can they?  Because I felt like it didn't tie up any loose ends.  

[ribboninthesky1]

We didn't know much about MJ's white hookup. I don't even remember his name, did we ever learn it? This is one of the many times I find MJ to be ridiculous and tiresome. She claims to want love, yet, she threw away getting to know someone because he wouldn't understand the struggle? Listen, I get that it's a legitimate concern. I will never say that it's better to date within your race, but it is easier. However, her hook up seemed interested in knowing what was up. But she wouldn't be Mary Jane if she didn't sabotage herself.

 

I'd seen a preview of their break-up, and I expected to feel like MJ was wrong and sabotaging herself. Surprisingly, I found myself understanding her perspective.  

 

I think the white guy was dismissive and condescending of her over-analyzing, and I understood where she was coming from with not wanting to explain things.  That's where he tripped up - if he had shown genuine curiosity and desire to understand her perspective FIRST, she might have been more receptive.  But nope, he came out the gate being critical, and declaring her over-analysis a waste of time.  He had some valid points, but how you say something is as important as what you say.  He presumably wasn't American, so perhaps he's largely oblivious to black/white racial dynamics.  On the one hand, MJ could have taken his comments as an opportunity to "enlighten" him.  Especially since he's been rather laid-back and accommodating in ways she clearly didn't expect of her black lovers.  On the other hand, it's not her responsibility or burden to do so, and I could sooooo relate to refusing the burden of educating someone on my black female experience.     

 

Still, there's no guarantee a black man would be any more sympathetic to her struggles as a black woman, especially when she has the double hurdle of race and gender.  In my experience, black men are as clueless as any other average man, regardless of race, when it comes to sexism, racialized or not.  MJ perceives her race first, then her gender. I used to be the same way, but that was well over a decade ago. As far as I'm concerned, any man who dismisses my experiences as a black woman can keep it moving.  Being willing to listen is a huge deal.  So, in the end, I get why MJ threw up the deuces. For her, it wasn't worth it, especially as someone in the public spotlight with extra scrutiny. 

 

Of course, I imagine if white guy had been black, MJ likely would have done or said nothing in response to his condescension, because..."black love." 

Edited December 16, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[Fabaire]

I completely missed the scene where CeeCee asked for more money. I'm glad MJ conned her but I am going to miss that character.

 

Also LOL to the FBI guy tipping her hat for her.

 

Neicy had every right to ask why she was being pulled over but should also have considered that cops aren't known for their ability to de-escalate situations and it is far to easy to catch an undeserved charge for "resisting" arrest. With her kids in the car she should have recognized that she was in a no win situation. Get the badge number and get your children home safe.

[Ohwell]

Neicy had a right to ask why she was pulled over, and the cop told her.  It was because the neighbors had complained about the loud music.  Now she might have thought it was ridiculous to be pulled over for something like that, but he did tell her.  Then things escalated and I'm sure Neicy had seen enough actual footage on TV of traffic stops gone bad for the person stopped.  Since she could tell that the cop was irritated, she should have calmed down and thought about her kids in the car.  There's no point in being "right" if you're dead.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Ohwell

[represent]

 

Neicy had a right to ask why she was pulled over, and the cop told her.  It was because the neighbors had complained about the loud music.  Now she might have thought it was ridiculous to be pulled over for something like that, but he did tell her.  Then things escalated and I'm sure Neicy had seen enough actual footage on TV of traffic stops gone bad for the person stopped.  Since she could tell that the cop was irritated, she should have calmed down and thought about her kids in the car.  There's no point in being "right" if you're dead.

I agree. No eye and neck rolling necessary. He told you why he stopped you, just show him the license and registration and I'm pretty sure she would have been on her way.

 

Kara, yeah, I can't be on her side at all, sorry. She should have doubled up on her meds. to help calm herself down and take pause, cause she went after that girl without mercy and tried to screw her career wise for no credible reason IMO. When MJ suggested Marisol for her Talk Back team, there went Kara again trying to sabotage the girl for a job that Kara didn't even want!  Yeah, totally unhinged that Kara and it's about to cost her big time.

 

I'm going to miss CeCe, but she got what she deserved, too greedy.   It was great to see LD in a role like this, she's never played in a role like this before. 

 

No Patrick?

 

I don't think MJ's mother was on either?

 

David, I definitely think that's over, as it should be. MJ finally looked at peace when she finally sat down to eat with Kara. 

 

Good to see the actress Meredith Baxter, she looks good. But I don't know what's up that she feels she has to go over to MJ and plead David's case. He just had a baby, her grandchild.  I should think his only love at the moment is that precious baby girl he was holding, and that's as it should be right now IMO.

 

MJ and her white guy, I understood what she was saying. At the end of the day, she was honest and real, no hate, it's just not right for her, and it's basically too hard for her.  And quite frankly, she doesn't want it enough so why put in the hard work for something you don't want. If she truly wanted him, at the end of the day, all the rest wouldn't matter.

 

That being said, I liked him.

Edited December 17, 2015 by represent

[catrice2]

Can't say how disappointed I was that it looks like Niecy will be staying around.  Dare I hope that this is the beginning of maturity for Mary Jane/  Sorry, the CeCe story just annoyed me. There never seemed to be a good reason why she was dealing with her in the first place.  Loretta Devine was over the top,and was she flirting with the woman by saying she would look her up, or threatening her?  Bizarre! 

 

I don't think we got resolution on Mark.  I am torn about Kara, I like her, but she should have handled it differently with Marisol.  Odd how Mary Jane gets a problem off her back and now Kara is in trouble.  I really don't want to see her lose her job and struggle, but if the show is renewed if this is a way to write Lisa Vidal out, that is a loss for them. 

 

I think the whole story about Mary Jane and "white guy," was poorly written from the start, so it was no surprise to me that the ending was mishandled. I don't even know why they bothered.  The guy that played him actually looks decent with his hair a different way and facial hair, but he just looked awkward and unattractive to me...but then again I don't think any of her love interests have been all that attractive. Unless I missed an episode they didn't care enough to even try to give him a backstory so that she could decide if he was worth the "hassle" outside of judging him for what he looks like, and how others would view  her for seeing him.   It is a shame that she is still so insecure at her age, but again, if she knew it was not want she wanted it was growth to show her not wasting her time...which means that Cuddy Buddy should also go.  I agree with whomever posted above that there is no guarantee that a black man would understand her problems.  My father always told me not to make the mistake of thinking that everyone who looks like you is FOR you, and understands you and that someone who doesn't look like you won't be for you and relate to you.  He always said you never know where you help will come from. I have found that so very true. 

 

The biggest problem for me was the whole "The Real" discussion.  I literally had to leave the room.  I have no idea how that show is successful...but I don't like the View or the Talk either. 

[Ohwell]

I have a bad feeling that the next season (if there is one) will deal with the downfall of Patrick, other brother and Niecy.  

 

It's mighty strange that there were no license plates on the Niecy's new car and I wonder if other brother (can't remember his name) bought the car from someone shady.  

[candall]

My eyebrows are lodged up in my hairline that Kara would think "GRRRRRL, love those shoes!" was any kind of salve for an injury the size of "You got your job by fucking the boss."  I was nearly as offended as Marisol by that lame, transparent effort.  Not to mention she followed up that epic fail with a "fiery Latina" bond-slash-excuse.  Kara's smarter than that.

 

Maybe Marisol's a killer shark and immune to appeal, but I'm sure she's aware the second wave benefits from their predecessors' sacrifice (i.e. the point of Kara's talk with MJ.)  That frustration could have been tweaked, polished and directed toward Marisol as a mea culpa with some semblance of sincerity.  Yes, Kara would have hated sharing on that level with Marisol, but when your boss says your job's gone if you don't make it right, it's time to gut it out.  Not fake squee about shoes.

***************

 

I'm sorry there's not another episode so we could see how MJ deals with Neicy's situation.  I thought it made for an interesting conundrum that the hard news topic for Talkback is also connected to MJ's personal life.  And on top of that, she's going to be well aware that Neicy could make the dalai lama start rooting around for a taser.

Edited December 17, 2015 by candall

[BigBlueMastiff]

 

Ok, this might be an unpopular opinion, but whatever. There were no winners in the altercation between Niecy and the cop. He was wrong for pulling her out of the car and tasering, however, Niecy was silly. Your children are in the car. Why are you puffing up your chest and catching an attitude? Just show your license, take your ticket, and grieve it afterwards. I'm not saying don't ask why you're being pulled over, but she was legit about to drive away like she was having a fight with her boyfriend and not a cop.

This, I am so sick of her stank, entitled attitude. I actually wouldn't mind her seizing out, and her grandparents getting a nice settlement from APD.

[announcergirl]

I have a bad feeling that the next season (if there is one) will deal with the downfall of Patrick, other brother and Niecy.  

 

It's mighty strange that there were no license plates on the Niecy's new car and I wonder if other brother (can't remember his name) bought the car from someone shady.  

Bought my son a car from a Ford dealership in September. You do not get real tags. You only get a paper tag. I believe his just said the name of the dealership. Others that I have seen while driving might say, "Tags Applied For." But, no, you don't get real tags or "registration." You get paperwork from the dealer but you have 60 days to get a tag and the registration that comes from the DMV.

[announcergirl]

This, I am so sick of her stank, entitled attitude. I actually wouldn't mind her seizing out, and her grandparents getting a nice settlement from APD.

Her attitude was stank and that is the wrong way to deal with a pullover. It bothers me, mostly, because with the state of affairs in the US right now with this topic is a very serious topic and should not be treated lightly, AND CERTAINLY not reenacted with someone who behaved badly. That defeats the purpose of what human rights orgs are fighting about. It is about those people who do behave properly and are WRONGFULLY detained or abused. Not the ones like Neicy who resisted arrest, was disrespectful to authority, was aggressive and smart mouthed which added to the escalation. You know, far be it for me to judge, because it is all a scary situation and I pray to not find myself in it (I do recall one time where this could have been me because I didn't think I deserved the ticket - GOD WAS WITH ME), but we have got to be careful about how we discuss these issues, how we illustrate them in our "entertainment."

[Ohwell]

Bought my son a car from a Ford dealership in September. You do not get real tags. You only get a paper tag. I believe his just said the name of the dealership. Others that I have seen while driving might say, "Tags Applied For." But, no, you don't get real tags or "registration." You get paperwork from the dealer but you have 60 days to get a tag and the registration that comes from the DMV.

Oh I know you get dealer's tags until you get the real ones--I've bought a few cars over the years--so I would think that the cop would have recognized the difference between the two.  However, it seemed to me that the cop was saying there were no tags at all on the car.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Ohwell

[Neurochick]

I totally disagree with the cop.  If you take a job as a police officer you will have people curse you out and disrespect you, that comes with the job, when you have to deal with the public shit happens.  Cops should be used to it, if they aren't they shouldn't be cops. 

 

See the issue is IT DOESN'T MATTER how Niecy acted.  It doesn't matter that she had an attitude.  I thought she was 100% wrong, but the pressure is on the cop.

 

I used to work in a doctor's office and the secretaries would get cursed out and called everything but a child of God, but the were NOT allowed to talk back.  So I'd tell them that they had to be cordial, but after they got off the phone, they could curse out the person.  On the phone they had to be professional, no matter what.  It sucks but that's life.

[drivethroo]

The video that Mary Jane and Intern saw was the police officer tasing Niecy and arresting her.  The video seemingly didn't show what led to the tasing.

 

I disagree that the cop was wrong.  Niecy refused to give license/registration, rolled up the window on the cop and tried to drive away. 

 

A secretary getting cussed out on the phone is different from rolling up a window on a cop and driving off. 

 

Mary Jane, Intern & the Talk Back audience will only see the video side where the cop tases Niecy and Niecy's NOT going to tell what led up to the tasing/arrest (rolling up window/driving off).

 

If you want to cuss out a cop, fine.  But roll up a window on a cop and drive off? You will not.

 

You can bet if Mary Jane, Helen and Paul Sr. see the ENTIRE exchange between Niecy & the cop they'd cuss Niecy out, especially Paul Sr. & Mary Jane.  Perhaps this is an interesting take on the cops/Black Lives Matter situation, that not everything is so "black and white".

 

 

[mrsbagnet]

My eyebrows are lodged up in my hairline that Kara would think "GRRRRRL, love those shoes!" was any kind of salve for an injury the size of "You got your job by fucking the boss."  I was nearly as offended as Marisol by that lame, transparent effort.  Not to mention she followed up that epic fail with a "fiery Latina" bond-slash-excuse.  Kara's smarter than that.

 

 

I cannot believe that Kara tried to smooth things over with that trite, insincere BS. She should also have never uttered the words "I need this to go away." That just left her wide open. She went with fake bonding and begging when she should have gone with sincere apology and admitting why she was angry and that it was wrong. Marisol might have still proceeded with her complaint, but there would be a better chance of them not working on the same show. Now she's stuck.

 

I'm not yet convinced that Neicy's storyline will become about police brutality. There's no doubt that she was wrong here. I'm not saying she deserved tasing, but she was uncooperative and tried to leave. While there may end up being a media circus, lawsuit, whatever else, I think the storyline will end up being about Neicy the eternal fuck-up and Mary Jane once again being sucked into her family's drama, just when she'd decided to reclaim her life. At least that's how I hope it goes. I have little sympathy for Neicy right now.

Edited December 18, 2015 by mrsbagnet

[Sheenieb]

Forgot to include that I was glad Mary Jane got that smart mouth intern together. I really can't stand her. I get that it's youth, but she's so earnest and rude that I want to see her gone.

 

That whole scene with David's mother could've been edited out. I give zero damns about David and MJ, will they or won't they. His focus should be on his daughter. Besides, once you screw up and apologize, it's up to the person you've wronged to either accept it or not. Don't grovel because it won't make forgiveness come faster. He apologized, so he should move on. MJ wants nothing to do with him, and that's it. He'll just have to take the L.

[ribboninthesky1]

I agree.  I never thought the David storyline was particularly well-written, so I've never been invested in it.  Not sure if it was the actor chemistry (or lack thereof), but I just never bought into MJ being hung up on David.  Andre, yes. David, no. 

 

Never been a Niecy fan, and thought she was a copout way back in season one when many defended her pity party (on TWOP, at least).  But I feel bad for her getting tased.  I tend to agree with Neurochick in that cops need to know how to de-escalate confrontations, and because they're the one with authority (not to mention deadly weapons), they should be held to a higher standard. I also think that Niecy doesn't get a pass for antagonizing a cop, and it's foolhardy to be combative, especially with young children in the car.  Not every battle is worth fighting.

 

It's an interesting scenario to present because I wondered if it had been Patrick or the younger brother, would they be blamed? Several of the black men/boys whose deaths sparked and currently drive the BLM movement weren't exactly respectable members of the neighborhood.  The black women and girls reportedly with similar experiences (sans criminal records) don't seem to garner the same level of outrage and sympathy.   

Edited December 17, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[Ohwell]

The black women I've heard about have sparked plenty of outrage and sympathy, except that they are few in relation to the number of black men caught up in that situation.  I never heard the outcome of the investigation of the woman in Texas who was found hanging in her cell and whether it was definitely ruled a suicide, but I remember the outrage.  There was a horrible case in here in northern Virginia which showed video of the police manhandling a mentally ill woman in the police station.  They treated her like some kind of wild animal and she died later.  There was plenty of outrage and the police had to revise their practices.

 

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter at that time if the police should know how to de-escalate a situation or not in that moment of confrontation.  Many of them are just Barney Fifes with a gun.  What matters in that moment is that the person complies with the officer's request  and tries to stay calm so that he or she can live to fight another day.  Niecy was just stupid.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Ohwell

[represent]

 

You can bet if Mary Jane, Helen and Paul Sr. see the ENTIRE exchange between Niecy & the cop they'd cuss Niecy out, especially Paul Sr. & Mary Jane.  Perhaps this is an interesting take on the cops/Black Lives Matter situation, that not everything is so "black and white".

I think this is where this story is going should they get a fourth season.

 

First thing I do when addressing a police officer is to say good morning, good afternoon etc.. and use his/her title of officer when speaking to them. And let me just preface by saying that I don't have the fear that some people especially in black communities have for the police. I'm lucky to have not grown up with that intense fear. Point is, I'm coming from a different place/experience in my 40 plus years, so when I see them I just automatically lead with respect and not so much the defensive of "would you be stopping me if I were...." I'm not saying the thought isn't in the back of my mind, it's always there, in all situations in life. But I don't lead with that and definitely not when dealing with law enforcement.

 

Bottom line, they need to be greeted with respect. I've gotten out of a ticket because of that respect and I was very surprised. But I knew that because we had a pleasant exchange and I was contrite, he decided to just give me a warning for speeding. Because I damn sure know it wasn't because I was young and cute.

[lucindabelle]

Catching up on demand and new to the show. Are we supposed to like MJ? I often do not.

Kara: the minute Marisol said what she wanted she should have gone right to human resources herself.

[candall]

Are we supposed to like MJ?

LOL.  A question I ask myself nearly every week.

 

*****

In light of the pro-Neicy posts above, I went back and watched the police scene again.

 

I've been pulled over. . .let's say, "plenty" and I was >50 y.o. before it was anything less than a paralyzing, sweaty-palmed, heart-pounding experience.  Sometimes it was worse when I didn't know what was going on--e.g. broken tail light--then when I blazed past a radar gun.   Rule number one is always R.E.S.P.E.C.T, so roger that, represent.

 

Okay, I'm thinking Neicy hasn't been driving long, so this is probably her first traffic stop.  (Sheenieb comparing it to having a fight with her boyfriend:  perfect.)  And we've seen Neicy fend off criticism by crushing it beneath her bulldozer of attitude.

 

But, shit! --even if you're a lone woman on a deserted country road and you suspect the cop is a maniac rapist, you're taught to stay respectful as you whimper through the window crack that you want to confirm his ID with the station or drive to a public space. 

 

Neicy would have to be visiting from Mars to think she can just say "no" when a cop tells her to step out of the car and that's going to be where it ends.  Any person with the brain capacity to operate a vehicle would know you will be exiting the car, one way or another. 

 

(ETA:  I believe they deliberately moved the camera in close and shook it around so we couldn't see exactly how physical Neicy was being when she pushed the cop away and broke free, so I'll leave that alone.  But this whole story makes me much more interested in the return date than, zzzzzzzz, Mrs. Keaton encouraging MJ to give Bad Alex another shot.)

Edited December 20, 2015 by candall

[damalanop]

It's been great reading all of the comments about this episode. Maybe even better than watching the actual show! You all have made better points than I can about the goings on in the finale. Overall, I thought this ep was a good one. Especially since there was apparent resolution on the David and CeCe situations and MJ admitted that she still missed Lisa (because few words have been uttered about Lisa since the funeral episode). I also think that the cliffhangers were enough to bring me back for another season (hopefully there is one).

Over the course of the entire series, I've been hot and cold on this show, mostly because I think some storylines aren't as tightly written as they could be, plots are dropped, characters aren't well developed, etc. However, what I can definitively say is that I think Mara and the other writers have done a great job of creating characters that you hate In one instance, respect in another, and feel for in yet another instance. I can appreciate that even if others parts of the show aren't as solid. I think this latest episode really illustrates that these characters have many sides to them, and that's enough for me even though I don't particularly like MJ most of the time.

[DearEvette]

I was actually enjoying this episode.... until i wasn't.  Everything felt written for plot expediency and  when you look at it more closely things people did and said felt like it was sizzle and no steak.

 

The Kara plot:  I love her, but man she handled everything about the Marisol situation 100% wrong.  The whole 'Ooh girl I love those shoes!' just made me cringe.  And then the 'Fiery Latina' thing made me cringe even more.  Come on, Kara did not just fall off a turnip truck!  To get to the level she is she had to have been more savvy in the arena of office politics  than what they are showing now.  Though, I must admit, Marisol made a baller move.  Now that she is the anchor, they can't remove her unless they can definitely prove the accusation is wrong, because to do so would seem like retaliation which is  big no-no when it comes to harassment complaints.

 

The Niecy plot: Felt mishandled.  I wish there had been some more nuance in that scene.  As it was, Niecy's actions felt unnecessarily combative.  By not providing license & registration when asked she was  in the wrong from the jump.  The scene would have/could have felt stronger if she had provided the documents first and then let the scene escalate from there.  Sure the officer was way more in the wrong than she was by taseing a woman who was in no way threatening him physically, but as the scene played out it felt very 'after school special' complete with raining anvils.  And of course Mary Jane's interns see it immediately and want to use it.

 

The CeCe plot: I am gonna miss Cece and her Sweet Dick Willie outfits.  But man I was glad she got what was coming to her.  Had to laugh when the police tipped her hat for her.  LOL.  Like MJ said, you just take it too far.

 

The White guy plot:  This also needed more nuance.  I honestly loved MJ's reasoning for why she didn't want to be down with the swirl.  She likes black guys.  She wants black love.  Boom! That is all that was necessary.  I also loved his response "I can't give you that."  And fin, great ending.    What felt unnecessary was the run up to that.  MJ's insecurity and her 'But I don't wanna have to talk to you about black stuff!'  I get that.  I was very often the only black person in schools, classrooms, workplaces and I could fill a football field with the fucks I did not give with constantly educating non-black folks on 'black stuff'  But if there was ever a time to actually talk about 'your truth' it is with the person who is lying up in your bed and with whom you are in an intimate relationship.  Again like the Niecy plot, it felt set up to be speechy.  And the addition of the segment from 'The Real' in there made it feel like an 'issue of the week' rather than an organic development for the character.

[Neurochick]

What stupid people on this show.

 

MJ, what an idiot.  She has a decent guy who likes her and she throws him away because he's white?  How stupid is that?  I mean most women want to be with men who treat them right.  But all MJ wants is a black man?  That's one of the things I think we black women do that hold ourselves back.  Women of other races look for men who are decent. men who treat you right.  It's the content of their character that's important, not the color of their skin.  Interesting that on shows like "Murder in the First" the lead character, a black man sleeps with a white woman and no one even raises an eyebrow; but for some strange reason, we black women seem to go to nut city if a man who isn't black is interested in us; girl bye.

 

Marisol, what a witch with a capital B.  Maybe she'll get hit by a truck next season, we can only hope.  I detest young women who run to HR every time they get a hangnail, ugh, grow a pair child, girl bye.

 

The cop was wrong but so was Niecy.  I was reminded of a line from the movie "Prince of the City" which came out in the 80's.  The line was something like, "unless we want to have the National Guard police our city, the NYPD is all we have" or something like that.  Also, I would never want to be a police officer, so that's another reason to treat police officers with respect (the same reason I treat servers with respect, if you're doing a job I wouldn't want to do, you got my respect!)

 

Still, the cop was 100% wrong, you know why?  Because if it takes two grown men to subdue one woman who has THEIR CHILDREN IN THE CAR, then they shouldn't be police officers.  Fire both of those losers.  

 

My point about the secretaries where I used to work was this, everybody has to deal with assholes, and you don't go off on them; you deal with them or you get another fucking job.  Case closed.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Neurochick

[Noirprncess]

MJ, what an idiot.  She has a decent guy who likes her and she throws him away because he's white?  How stupid is that?  I mean most women want to be with men who treat them right.  But all MJ wants is a black man?  That's one of the things I think we black women do that hold ourselves back.  Women of other races look for men who are decent. men who treat you right.  It's the content of their character that's important, not the color of their skin.  Interesting that on shows like "Murder in the First" the lead character, a black man sleeps with a white woman and no one even raises an eyebrow; but for some strange reason, we black women seem to go to nut city if a man who isn't black is interested in us; girl bye.

But MJ has said all along she wanted a black man. Even when she was chided by her group of girlfriends. Decent or not, it's not fair to keep stringing someone along if you aren't feeling the relationship. Having a preference is essential to selecting a mate. Picking someone just to say you have someone isn't right or satisfying. If that was the case, she could have easily taken Sheldon up on his offer in season 2. I think MJ realized Eddie wasn't HER one. Heck, she didn't want to leave the house with him. That's never a good sign for any relationship.

Throwing Taye Diggs character from Murder in the First isn't exactly a fair comparison. His wife was black then she died. It was clear that he got involved with Hildy because of the close proximity of working together and shared grief, stress, etc. The ONLY thing in common is the interracial pairing. But even they broke up before the start of season 2.

There have been other shows that successfully show IR relationships with BW. Gabby had an Asian husband on that ABC show. Meagan Good had an IR relationship on Deception. Not to mention the Shondaland marriages and hookups of every variety.

Mara Brock has said she wanted to make her comment on it because some women chose to wait for a man of color. It's a choice that has pros and cons.

[Neurochick]

Throwing Taye Diggs character from Murder in the First isn't exactly a fair comparison. His wife was black then she died. It was clear that he got involved with Hildy because of the close proximity of working together and shared grief, stress, etc. The ONLY thing in common is the interracial pairing. But even they broke up before the start of season 2.

 

 

I think it's fair because his character didn't have all this anxiety and angst about her being white; it was more about his wife dying.

 

Mara Brock has said she wanted to make her comment on it because some women chose to wait for a man of color. It's a choice that has pros and cons.

 

 

Like there are pros and cons with being on a sinking ship.  The sad truth is that so many black women wait and wait and wait and wait for their "black prince" who never comes.  Meanwhile black men marry who they please.  

[Noirprncess]

I think it's fair because his character didn't have all this anxiety and angst about her being white; it was more about his wife dying.

 

He had no reason for angst as it was not part of his character. Plus one big difference, Hildy and Terry were never going to try to be a couple. They liked each other and had sexual attraction which they explored a bit but being a couple was not the end goal.

In contrast, MJ had tons of angst about everything from what she wears to who she spends time with. Every man she's dated on the show has had some type of issue, Eddie is no exception. MJ was ok with being friends with benefits, Eddie wanted a relationship. It wasn't going to go anywhere simply because MJ didn't want it to. I would go as far as saying Eddie was simply the white equivalent of Cutty Buddy, another guy she did not want a tip in a relationship with. Notice they rarely if ever went anywhere together as well.

 

Like there are pros and cons with being on a sinking ship.  The sad truth is that so many black women wait and wait and wait and wait for their "black prince" who never comes.  Meanwhile black men marry who they please.

Yes, that may be true. But the same could be said of any person with a specific preference in who they choose to date. It's their preference and they have to deal with the good and bad consequences. Interracial dating is not for everyone. MJ is one of those people and in the end, it's her choice.

[Neurochick]

Yes, that may be true. But the same could be said of any person with a specific preference in who they choose to date. It's their preference and they have to deal with the good and bad consequences. Interracial dating is not for everyone. MJ is one of those people and in the end, it's her choice.

 

 

You are correct, but here's my problem.  I think that any young black woman today who says, "nothing but a black man" is giving all of the power to the men.  Why?  Because black women today do better in life/jobs/whatever than black men today.  So a black man who has a job, no baby mamas and has never been to jail knows that he's in short supply and doesn't have to settle down for a long time; he knows there will be the "nothing but a black man" women just waiting for him to "come to his senses."   There are more women than men in every race, but more men in those races do well, so those men know they have to compete; that the women won't be standing there waiting for them.  That's just what I've seen but YMMV.

[DearEvette]

Mara Brock has said she wanted to make her comment on it because some women chose to wait for a man of color. It's a choice that has pros and cons.

 

In the end, I think this is why I don't think that particular scene 100% worked for me.  It sounded editorial rather than organic for the story.  In that moment, instead of simply watching MJ make a romantic realization that felt right for the character,  I was immediately and overwhelmingly aware that I was watching a show on BET, written by a black woman, created by a black woman, starring a black woman, for a black woman audience.  It was a message and it felt very message-y.

 

On the one had I did like how much MJ owned her preference and chose to go all in with it.  I don't necessarily agree with her (well I don't actually as I am in an IR marriage and have been for 20 years) but it was a strong POV for the character.  Yet on the other hand, I did not like that she didn't even give it a chance.  She self sabotaged almost immediately.  I think the declaration of wanting black love would have felt stronger and had more punch if we'd seen her actually exploring her relationship with the white guy and got to actually visually see it not fulfilling her in ways that could be explained away because of racial/cultural differences that she feels can't be overcome. 

 

Of course all that gets (un)ironically juxtaposed with David, his white GF and his baby.  All the stuff that MJ wants but can't seem to achieve because she's busy waiting.

[LydiaMoon1]

The Niecy plot: Felt mishandled.  I wish there had been some more nuance in that scene.  As it was, Niecy's actions felt unnecessarily combative.  By not providing license & registration when asked she was  in the wrong from the jump.  The scene would have/could have felt stronger if she had provided the documents first and then let the scene escalate from there.  Sure the officer was way more in the wrong than she was by taseing a woman who was in no way threatening him physically, but as the scene played out it felt very 'after school special' complete with raining anvils.  And of course Mary Jane's interns see it immediately and want to use it.

 

I disagree.  If the show is aiming to use the Niecy situation as a commentary on police brutality (and I hope that they are, i.e Sandra Bland), then the show handled it just right.  They deliberated portrayed Niecy as uncooperative and mouthy, but you know what?  She should have the right to act that way. Her questions were legitimate and, because she asked the police why they stopped her, she made them reveal just how bogus their reasons were.  Youtube is full of examples of white people who are combative, unpleasant, and disrespectful to police, yet they still get treated with dignity and respect. Hell, Dylan Roof murdered 9 people in a church and he got treated to a happy meal at McDonalds.  The police are supposed to be public servants.  Their duty should be to protect and serve the public, whether the public is nice to them or not.

 

I also hope the show explores this phenomenon in the black community of expecting black women to be "perfect" victims in order to receive any sympathy. A black man can be a murderer, a rapist, a gang-banger, a drug-dealer, a whatever and the whole community will come out to support them like they're the second coming of Jesus Christ.  When is the last time anyone had a mass protest/riot in support of a black woman? Yeah. Those are very few and very far between.

[Sheenieb]

 

I disagree.  If the show is aiming to use the Niecy situation as a commentary on police brutality (and I hope that they are, i.e Sandra Bland), then the show handled it just right.  They deliberated portrayed Niecy as uncooperative and mouthy, but you know what?  She should have the right to act that way. Her questions were legitimate and, because she asked the police why they stopped her, she made them reveal just how bogus their reasons were.  Youtube is full of examples of white people who are combative, unpleasant, and disrespectful to police, yet they still get treated with dignity and respect. Hell, Dylan Roof murdered 9 people in a church and he got treated to a happy meal at McDonalds.  The police are supposed to be public servants.  Their duty should be to protect and serve the public, whether the public is nice to them or not.

While ideally no one should be mouthy to an authority figure, I agree that it shouldn't get your shot or tasered. However, why make it hard on yourself? There's nothing wrong with asking why you're being pulled over, but trying to drive off, too? What the hell was she thinking?

 

In regards to white people being combative and still getting to go home at the end of the day, I'm reminded of Mary Jane's conversation with PJ. When he mentioned his shady business dealings and likened it to how the Rockefellers and Kennedy's got paid, MJ kept it real with him and let him know that the government is not going to be lenient on a black man and an Asian woman. It's the same with the police and people of color. Hell, with anything, really. We already know that white people and POC can commit the same crime, yet, their sentence will be lenient but we'll get the book. Armed white men can take over a building, but black and brown people assemble to protest and the National Guard is on standby.

 

I write all of this to go back to my initial point above. Why make it harder on yourself? I'm not saying that it's a guarantee that you'll make it out alive even if you comply, but noncompliance doesn't help, either. This might be viewed as respectability politics, but I'm trying to get home. I want to live to be able to call Al Sharpton the next day.

[represent]

 

 

While ideally no one should be mouthy to an authority figure, I agree that it shouldn't get your shot or tasered. However, why make it hard on yourself? There's nothing wrong with asking why you're being pulled over, but trying to drive off, too? What the hell was she thinking?

In regards to white people being combative and still getting to go home at the end of the day, I'm reminded of Mary Jane's conversation with PJ. When he mentioned his shady business dealings and likened it to how the Rockefellers and Kennedy's got paid, MJ kept it real with him and let him know that the government is not going to be lenient on a black man and an Asian woman. It's the same with the police and people of color. Hell, with anything, really. We already know that white people and POC can commit the same crime, yet, their sentence will be lenient but we'll get the book. Armed white men can take over a building, but black and brown people assemble to protest and the National Guard is on standby.

I write all of this to go back to my initial point above. Why make it harder on yourself? I'm not saying that it's a guarantee that you'll make it out alive even if you comply, but noncompliance doesn't help, either. This might be viewed as respectability politics, but I'm trying to get home. I want to live to be able to call Al Sharpton the next day.

I agree, because this tragically is the world I'm living in ...you adjust so you can live another day. 

 

 

I also hope the show explores this phenomenon in the black community of expecting black women to be "perfect" victims in order to receive any sympathy. A black man can be a murderer, a rapist, a gang-banger, a drug-dealer, a whatever and the whole community will come out to support them like they're the second coming of Jesus Christ.  When is the last time anyone had a mass protest/riot in support of a black woman? Yeah. Those are very few and very far between.

 

Never.

 

I'm with you on this.

 

I don't see much support if any from our male counterparts, sorry, never have.  Starting with talking about us like dogs in general, and not a peep do I hear from them in defense of us. If they are saying anything, they need to be collectively louder, because I can't hear them and I surely don't see them.

But I do see and hear all those black women leading BLM movement on their behalf.

Edited January 6, 2016 by represent

[LydiaMoon1]

While ideally no one should be mouthy to an authority figure, I agree that it shouldn't get your shot or tasered. However, why make it hard on yourself?

 

Oh, I'm not saying that what Niecy did was smart, I'm saying a "combative" Niecy provides the show with a perfect opportunity to explore the many nuances, variables, and disparities at play within our current climate of police brutality and BLM. I'm also relieved that the show has been renewed for a 4th season.  Mara's contract doesn't expire until May.  That means she still has time to write this story to the fullest, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[ribboninthesky1]

In an interesting twist, the officer who arrested Sandra Bland has been indicted for perjury and fired.  It might be interesting to read where the show takes the Niecy storyline in light of this, although I did read somewhere that Mara Brock-Akil (or her team) wrote Niecy's scenes before the Sandra Bland tragedy. I still believe police officers should be trained and held accountable for de-escalating confrontations.

 

But MJ has said all along she wanted a black man. Even when she was chided by her group of girlfriends. Decent or not, it's not fair to keep stringing someone along if you aren't feeling the relationship. Having a preference is essential to selecting a mate. Picking someone just to say you have someone isn't right or satisfying. If that was the case, she could have easily taken Sheldon up on his offer in season 2. I think MJ realized Eddie wasn't HER one. Heck, she didn't want to leave the house with him. That's never a good sign for any relationship.

 

I agree.  Eddie (I didn't even know his name!) seemed like a nice guy, but that doesn't mean MJ is self-sabotaging by choosing not to be with him.  She's self-sabotaged in other ways, in other relationships, no doubt.  But Eddie wasn't one of those times, mainly because there was no relationship to sabotage.  I've read elsewhere that he was her first "functional" relationship.  Nah, I don't see it.  As mentioned, she didn't even want to be seen in public with the man (I don't recall if she went out in public with the football player).  He's the first white man she's "dated" - doesn't mean she's required to give him more of a chance.  I'm all for black women exploring ALL their options with relationships and marriage.  I strongly disagree with her limiting her partners to black men, especially in freaking ATLANTA.  But it's her choice to make. 

 

I'd love to see a black female lead have a legitimate, functional relationship (or more) on TV with a devoted partner, but I'm not particularly invested in the race of said partner.  

Edited January 7, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

Perhaps this is an interesting take on the cops/Black Lives Matter situation, that not everything is so "black and white".

Please do not compare a fictional TV show to the injustices that real black people face everyday.  Have you seen the tapes of Eric Garner, Tamir Rice or Laquan McDonald there are no goddamned gray areas.Not only did police officers unjustly harm all three; in at least 2 cases they were left to die on the sidewalk alone and scared. I'm horrified that this aspect can be so easily forgotten or treated as as a joke.

 

Niecy is an asshole but this wasn't representative of any of the incidents that have actually happened and fuck Mara Brock Akil for making this about a black woman's attitude.

Edited January 9, 2016 by ThomasAAnderson

[LydiaMoon1]

Please do not compare a fictional TV show to the injustices that real black people face everyday.  Have you seen the tapes of Eric Garner, Tamir Rice or Laquan McDonald there are no goddamned gray areas.Not only did police officers unjustly harm all three; in at least 2 cases they were left to die on the sidewalk alone and scared. I'm horrified that this aspect can be so easily forgotten or treated as as a joke.

 

Niecy is an asshole but this wasn't representative of any of the incidents that have actually happened and fuck Mara Brock Akil for making this about a black woman's attitude.

 

Absolutely nothing about the finale or the entirely of Being Mary Jane suggests that the show will treat the subject of police brutality as a joke.  While you may think that there are no gray areas, the victim-blaming by the media and the pushback against the BLM movement by racists and police apologists suggest other people have a very different view of recent police killings. In fact, so much hatred and vitriol was being spewed in articles about Tamir Rice that the Cleveland newspaper was forced to to shut down its comment section. You obviously think a fictional TV show is not the proper venue to explore the subject, but a show like BMJ has the potential to explore the impact of these crimes in a way that reflect the real world.

 

Further, Niecy had every right to demand why she was being stopped and she had every reason to be irritated that the cop stopped her for bogus reasons.  In fact, the cop asking if Niecy was irritated sounded eerily similar to the conversation had between the cop and Sandra Bland right before he yanked her out of her car and bashed her head into the ground.  Yet, you seem to take offense that Mara Brock Akil dares to write a story centering on a black woman rather than black men on a show about black women written by a black woman. Classic.

[Psalm11]

 

The biggest problem for me was the whole "The Real" discussion.  I literally had to leave the room.  I have no idea how that show is successful...but I don't like the View or the Talk either. 

Oh, Catrice2, I agree with everything you said but especially this!  I think you and I must be the only people in the country who dislike them. Yuck.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Psalm11

[talktoomuch]

Resurrection! Somehow I never saw the Season 3 finale. I think I recorded it and my DVR died. Anyway, I finally saw it at the end of the marathon this weekend. So glad I did.

I really like (don't love) the show. Admittedly because I don't really like Gabrielle Union's "acting." But nonetheless the writing, topics, and great acting by others kept me coming back.

I thought this was a strong, thought-provoking finale. And knowing that Mary Jane is moving to NYC really makes me wonder how they're going to resolve the open issues it brought out.

Love Cece and love her comeuppance. As with most cons, she got too greedy. Good on MJ for taking her down. The officer tipping her hat was everything. Loretta Devine played the hell out of that role! Not sure if she was flirting with or threatening the Asian woman? Exactly. 

Kara is another one who went too far. Though I'm not in TV, I think I understand how she felt when the young hot newbie Latina came strolling in with no sense if appreciation for the sacrifices of the Karas who made that possible. But as you guys already stated, Kara played her hand wrong. And then was too proud to do a mea culpa when she needed to. Then again any of us who expected Kara to grovel haven't been watching this show.

I am in the camp of Neicy did nothing wrong. I'm a former prosecutor paid for years to support the sometimes questionable actions of police officers. Truth is Neicy had every right to question why she was being stopped, and every right to leave when the officer admitted she was being pulled over for a nonillegal reason. (Though too loud music actually is a misdemeanor in Georgia, I think they played it on the show as if it isn't.) You can't resist an unlawful arrest, so the officer was wrong to try to detain her. And super wrong to taze her. Would it have been smarter for Neicy to be respectful? Of course. But she was not wrong for what she did instead.

Finally MJ. I get her reasoning for waiting for "black love." I have a lot of friends like that. Hell, I was like that. I think that (and his social status) has a lot to do with why MJ was stuck on David for so long. Because we all saw for 3 seasons that it didn't appear to be some deep romantic or spiritual connection. 

Looking forward to tomorrow. Probably moreso this forum than the show itself.

[Drumpf1737]

where is the board for the season 4 premiere?

[topanga]

1 hour ago, Drumpf1737 said:

where is the board for the season 4 premiere?

I don't think there is one yet, but we can start our own topics within a thread.  You should create it, Drumpf1737.

[Neurochick]

Maybe you can explain to me what "Black Love " is as opposed to just love.  I'm an old lady and the bottom line is that love is just love.