MSNBC: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Vaulted)

[shok]

I thought Trump was supposed to be the supreme deal maker, that he was going to make bigger deals and better deals and he was going to win so much that everybody was going to get sick of winning all the time. And yet he can't even read the instructions and figure out how to win the Colorado caucus. Can you imagine him being outrooked by Putin and throwing a temper tantrum like he's throwing now over a few convention delegates? The guy is mentally ill. Doesn't matter how much Lawrence and the other pundits show what an idiot he is, Trump has managed to get enough voters riled up to somehow vote for him. I know Lawrence has been anti-Trump from the outset but I hold the media, as a whole, responsible for the mess they've gotten the country into.

[33kaitykaity]

I hold the media, as a whole, responsible for the mess they've gotten the country into.

I put the collective stupidity of the American people on that list, too.

 

The MTP panel consisted of Chris Matthews and Perry Bacon, journalists, and Kathleen Parker and Hugh Hewitt, right-wingnuts.  What was missing?  Where were the liberals?  Fuck you, Chuck Toad.

Edited April 17, 2016 by 33kaitykaity

[kathyk24]

I miss the MHP Show so much!  I would have loved to hear her take on all the anti gay laws in the South and the Georgia paddling case.

[Padma]

Steve Kornacke as a host with political interviews is a little too soft and eager and nice, like a puppy. He's better as a supplement, with his charts.

 

I don't know why MSNBC brought Halperin's show on. If I wanted to watch Fox, I know where it is. Heilmann doesn't balance him at all, mostly just goes along. At least they're actually out in the field, but when it comes to opinion, I'd even rather have that 4 person show with Melber and Toure come back.

 

In a fantasy MSNBC world, I'd keep Rachel, Chris Hayes and LO'D in the evening, but bump Matthews to the afternoon. And Keith returning in the 8 o'clock slot would be amazing.  I loved liberal MSNBC. 

 

I can dream....

Edited April 19, 2016 by Padma

[WendyCR72]

Once more, this is going out of control. Take the political race ELSEWHERE. I do not know how much plainer to say it. If it continues, posts WILL BE DELETED and posters warned.

 

Steer back towards the channel and staff.

 

To those cooperating, thank you.

[Andyourlittledog2]

I've always loved Kornacki but he needs to calm the eff down.  He is starting to sound like a little yapping dog, talking a mile a minute nonstop about the delegate counts and poll numbers without taking a breath.  

 

"That gives us 56 but if you then add 25 and take away 13 you get 74 but add in 120 and move over here to 96 and take away 22 and 88 and suddenly you have Texas!"  as he madly circles numbers on a big board and looks wild-eyed at the camera. "Which is why Clinton is down 17 in the polls but up 12 in this other poll but Trump gains ground in this third poll and Sanders drew a big crowd on Friday but his number is down 9 here but up 18 there which gives us a net gain of Indiana!"  Steve catches his breath because he is at the center of effing history and math is hard, yo!

 

It's all so exhausting and pointless. Calm down, Steve. The numbers will change in three days time and you'll just start this all over again and every thing you said today won't be worth anything at all. Don't get so worked up over it.

 

Meanwhile, the panels are now almost completely devoid of any progressive voices. The old usual panelists have been almost entirely replace with new pundits I've either never heard of because they are the second generation of politicians and pundits spawn (famous folks kids getting a golden hand into the big leagues) and just out of school it looks like, or old GOP regulars taking a break from their usual Fox news gigs. If there are five people on a panel you can almost guarantee that four of them will be GOP. 

 

It'd be really refreshing if any of these people would talk about something that isn't completely poll-based for a change. I love a good poll as much as the next person but it's completely out of hand. It's at CNN levels at this point. I'm waiting for the MSNBC election night hologram reporter to be unveiled before November.  And then their conversion into a CNN/Fox hybrid will be complete. . 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Andyourlittledog2

[NextIteration]

They brought back Mike Murphy so it only seems fair that they dump Rick Tyler, right?  RIGHT?

 

The only panels worth anything from a progressive point of view exist on O'Donnell and Hayes' shows.  I really like the voice of Tara Dowdell - the previous Apprentice contestant turned Democratic strategist.

[stormy]

Sob, I long for the days when Keith Olbermann was on.

[Ohwell]

I love it when Nina Turner comes on this show because she's strong in her opinions without being obnoxious.  I hope she runs for President someday.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Ohwell

[vb68]

 

I love it when Nina Turner comes on this show because she's strong in her opinions without being obnoxious.

 

I actually find her incredibly obnoxious.  I couldn't believe Lawrence didn't even try to reign her in last night when she kept interrupting and just being generally nasty to Barney Frank, of all people.

[33kaitykaity]

I actually find her incredibly obnoxious.  I couldn't believe Lawrence didn't even try to reign her in last night when she kept interrupting and just being generally nasty to Barney Frank, of all people.

When Barney Frank used that little "don't interrupt me" schtick on Bill Maher's show against a wingnut, I squee'd I was so happy with him.  But in this case, I just wanted him to shut up.  I don't think Nina was being nasty at all and Barney was being too sensitive by half.  And I thought they appeared on Hardball, not with Lawrence, but you were right.  Sometimes the surrogate segments all blend in with each other because the same talking points are Rubio-peated in every single one.  

Edited April 19, 2016 by 33kaitykaity

[Padma]

I actually find her incredibly obnoxious.  I couldn't believe Lawrence didn't even try to reign her in last night when she kept interrupting and just being generally nasty to Barney Frank, of all people.

I find her usually obnoxious as well. (Saw her toned down on one of the MSNBC shows the other day and didn't mind her a bit. But I think it's because she wasn't asked one of the questions that takes her from 0-60. She's one of the real Bernie surrogates and I find her very off-putting most of the time.

 

But I have a question for NYorkers. I was just watching MSNBC's Jacob Soberoff (whom I can't stand, but that's a different issue). He is actually IN a polling place speaking about the election as people are voting behind him. Is that legal? He asked one of the precinct workers about 100 Democrats coming in this morning "insisting they want to vote Republican." He kept pushing her, "What do you think that was about?" 

 

Then he interviewed a congressman who was also in the room. He was a Republican and Jacob asked who he thought would win the district. The congressman tactfully talked about the constituents, but avoided mentioning specific politicians they might support. So Jacob concluded his piece--IN THE POLLING PLACE WITH VOTERS NEARBY--by saying "If Donald Trump wins this district he'll get all three delegates and very likely take a sweep of New York state today." Something along those lines.

 

I thought there was a law forbidding campaigning within a certain distance from a polling place. So #1 Why are a reporter and camera crew allowed inside? and #2 Why is this guy standing there talking about Trump and his possible sweep of NY while people are voting?  It seemed completely inappropriate.

[stormy]

I saw Nina Turner on CNN last week.  First, I was suprised and second, she was the Nina I always admired when she was on Ed Schultz's show.

Now she goes on and on nonstop.  She drives me crazy.

Something about MSNBC must bring out the worst in people.

[Ohwell]

Something about MSNBC must bring out the worst in people.

 

Actually, I think that's the case.  I think some might have considered Nina Turner obnoxious going up against Barney Frank because he is usually obnoxious, IMO.  I think she had her defenses up, knowing she was going to be on screen with him.  

[33kaitykaity]

Right before the polls closed, Steve Kornacki did an honest accounting of the delegate count for Hillary/Bernie without the super-delegates.  I was flabbergasted, amazed, thrilled to see the real numbers on my TeeVee screen.  

[Moose135]

I'm watching the primary coverage, and I see Chris Matthews broadcasting from Brooklyn Bridge Park.  Now, I've been there many times, it's a great place for photos of lower Manhattan and the Brooklyn Bridge, and it looks to be a nice night, but why is he out there?  Is it just because he can't stand to be in the same studio as Brian Williams? Because otherwise, I don't know why he is broadcasting from out there.

[maraleia]

I'm watching the primary coverage, and I see Chris Matthews broadcasting from Brooklyn Bridge Park.  Now, I've been there many times, it's a great place for photos of lower Manhattan and the Brooklyn Bridge, and it looks to be a nice night, but why is he out there?  Is it just because he can't stand to be in the same studio as Brian Williams? Because otherwise, I don't know why he is broadcasting from out there.

Brooklyn is the hip place in NYC that's why Chris is there tonight. Also, he might have demanded the on the ground slot since Brian is sucking up all the oxygen at the headquarters.

[vb68]

I think Chris looks ridiculous with his baseball cap on.   That's the definition of trying too hard (to be hip or whatever he was trying to do).

[potatoradio]

Yes! Kornacki at the map! Rolled up sleeves and all! OMG-- did he just circle California? Yes, yes he did. Rock on, Random number and map circler boy!!

[Mumbles]

 

since Brian is sucking up all the oxygen at the headquarters.

Euh boy is he *ever.*  A pompous parody of a television pretty boy beyond his sell-by date. He's veering close to Ted Baxter territory. 

[WendyCR72]

Euh boy is he *ever.*  A pompous parody of a television pretty boy beyond his sell-by date. He's veering close to Ted Baxter territory. 

 

Hey now, at least Ted Baxter pretended to care about the news on occasion!

[xaxat]

"That gives us 56 but if you then add 25 and take away 13 you get 74 but add in 120 and move over here to 96 and take away 22 and 88 and suddenly you have Texas!"  as he madly circles numbers on a big board and looks wild-eyed at the camera. "Which is why Clinton is down 17 in the polls but up 12 in this other poll but Trump gains ground in this third poll and Sanders drew a big crowd on Friday but his number is down 9 here but up 18 there which gives us a net gain of Indiana!"  Steve catches his breath because he is at the center of effing history and math is hard, yo!

 

What makes it funnier is that his handwriting gets worse as he gets more animated. So the big reveal of his ultimate number typically borders on being illegible.

 

It was so funny watching Nicole Wallace trying to convince herself that Trump could actually win the general election.

Edited April 20, 2016 by xaxat

[vb68]

Why did Jeff Weaver agree to stand at Kornacki's map board and watch as Steve explained math to him?  There was an element of the algebra teacher working with the remedial student to it.  Very odd dynamic.

[NextIteration]

I think Chris looks ridiculous with his baseball cap on.   That's the definition of trying too hard (to be hip or whatever he was trying to do).

 

It was windy and I think he hates it when his hair blows around.

 

An observation about overall enthusiasm about the election at MSNBC between 2008 and this cycle - the whole crew of NBCers (Russert, Todd, Matthews, Brokaw, etc) were far more excited about 2008.  They were all showing up late at night and very early in the morning and all points in between to talk about the race, along with their sidekicks like Barnicle and Matthews' GOP brother, Jim?  I think? and all the surrogates as well.

 

I think time, and his untimely passing have allowed me to forgive Russert for his many failings, maybe.  I miss his exuberance about the process.

Edited April 20, 2016 by NextIteration

[tenativelyyours]

I think for me the difference with Russert is that he falls in with the likes of his own son, Scarborough, David Gregory and pouting poseur Chuck Todd among others.  Russert differs a bit with them because like Chris Matthews he also understood the political process and could fascinated by just its workings in a way that didn't involve his ego and undermine his own confidence if it went against his opinions for the most part. 

 

But he also, like those I already mentioned, was deeply in love with being a part of the process.  Matthews gets tripped up by it lately more than he doesn't.  Gregory wallowed in it well before he should have and tried to pretend he wasn't, The Little Pretender Luke thinks he is much more a part of it than he is.  Scarborough has grand delusions both past and present as to his role in it all and has doubled down so severely in terms of his ego and self worth it is sad and almost scary. 

 

I don't think it is a coincidence for me that the ones I appreciate and trust the most are those that have done more than they had to, to make sure that they have shown their appreciation and even entertainment by the circus that is politics, give it its due but don't apply a false reverence or demand for such and otherwise remain an observer: Rachel, Chris H., Jonathan, Melissa (miss you tons already oddly enough), and even Steve Kornacki when he was a guest on the others' shows.

[Mumbles]

Russert did love the mechanics of the process. And yeah, he got off on being part of the process. And that glee of being part of the process, rather than an observer (which is what he should have been) bled into his other work. His MTP devolved into "Tim and Friends" (friends being, Matalin-Carville, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Mike Murphy, etc.). Russert wasn't a journalist by trade - like Matthews, he was a former political aide - and it showed.

And I never understood his canonization after his death. I mean, they made his desk a permanent exhibit in a museum down in DC! Good lord.

[NextIteration]

Rachel, Chris H., Jonathan, Melissa (miss you tons already oddly enough), and even Steve Kornacki when he was a guest on the others' shows.

 

The difference in what I was getting at with "NBCers" is that I think of these folks as MSNBCers, the last of the best that were ever there.  I miss Melissa terribly as well.  I didn't want to do this last night because of election coverage - but I think?  That she is live streaming "Forever Nerdland" events.  Check out that twitter handle if you're interested.  She was also just announced as an editor-at-large at Elle.

Edited April 20, 2016 by NextIteration

[nowandlater]

Interesting article... http://www.salon.com/2016/04/20/watching_msnbc_is_pure_torture_chris_matthews_and_brian_williams_belly_flop_on_primary_night/

[Ohwell]

I think Chris Matthews is also under some stress because his wife, Kathleen, is running for Congress in MD.  Although I haven't seen any polling, I think she might be getting some pretty stiff competition.  Which is why I'm guessing he wore that stupid cap. 

[nowandlater]

I think Chris Matthews is also under some stress because his wife, Kathleen, is running for Congress in MD.  Although I haven't seen any polling, I think she might be getting some pretty stiff competition.  Which is why I'm guessing he wore that stupid cap. 

 

I thought the hat was so his hair wouldn't be flying around.

[Ohwell]

I thought the hat was so his hair wouldn't be flying around.

Oh yeah, that was probably the practical reason.  But I also think it's a sign he's becoming unhinged and my cap comment was a joke about that.

[NextIteration]

Interesting article... http://www.salon.com/2016/04/20/watching_msnbc_is_pure_torture_chris_matthews_and_brian_williams_belly_flop_on_primary_night/

 

Okay, which one of you writes for Salon? 

 

Yeah, that Matthews minute with Talese was awkward for certain even though you could see how much Matthews admires Talese, despite his apparent short-comings.

[SFoster21]

At around midnight or one last night, after the usual line up, someone moderated a panel with the three women who cover Trump, Clinton and Sanders. These intelligent and knowledgable young women had a fact-based conversation about the campaigns themselves. From time to time, they talked over one another but they were in sync, no one was defending a position, so it settled and everyone got to say their piece. It was great; what TV could be if it was just real information.

I kept thinking, If Tweety were there, he would have interrupted every interesting remark.

Edited April 20, 2016 by SFoster21

[HyeChaps]

I have it on good authority that B Williams will never ever do remote reports. He is stuck in the studio forever.

[stormy]

Today on MTP Daily.

Chuck has on former NJ governor Christine Todd Whitman.  She's big in the dying Stop Trump movement.

Chuck asks her where they've been?  They're useless, really.

He asks her who she'll vote for if Trump is the republican candidate.  She says she'll write someone in.

I don't believe her.

[NewDigs]

I have it on good authority that B Williams will never ever do remote reports. He is stuck in the studio forever.

Dear god. We're doomed. That man never sleeps. And if he does it will be in his office.

[Andyourlittledog2]

I have it on good authority that B Williams will never ever do remote reports. He is stuck in the studio forever.

 

That's because they have to fact-check everything he says against the studio cctv footage. Yep, we're doomed.

[Padma]

Interesting article... http://www.salon.com/2016/04/20/watching_msnbc_is_pure_torture_chris_matthews_and_brian_williams_belly_flop_on_primary_night/

I enjoyed this and they nailed it with "the worst thing about MSNBC these days is its continued use of Brian Williams". And then quoted some of the insipid things he says while bumping other, more interesting hosts. They called him, "smug", "an empty suit", etc. and reminded readers about his lying.

 

And it's true that it was particularly disappointing to get this kind of lackluster coverage from journalists in "their" state, the center of the national media. All this criticism is good, because Salon is something NBC PR people will read and pass along. I especially liked where it said that their regular team could do better without him. True, that.

 

On a different note, if I were the MSNBC, FOX, or CNN exec I would stop having all campaign surrogates on as guests. Get a comment at a campaign event maybe, but these people are all so utterly predictable in their spin for the candidate (whoever the candidate is). And why do we need a whole interview like that? It's worthless. I'd rather hear from some journalists or political experts. The surrogates really add nothing (and Rick Tyler, I include  you until someone asks publically--print is fine--if you still get paid by the Cruz campaign in ANY capacity and you say, "No".)  How would we get each campaign's point of view? I think the correspondents sum it up every day, they could get one quote from the campaign, too, and be done with it.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Padma

[shok]

Interesting article... http://www.salon.com/2016/04/20/watching_msnbc_is_pure_torture_chris_matthews_and_brian_williams_belly_flop_on_primary_night/

 

The problem with the article is that it is written by someone who thinks MSNBC is liberal and if he was the teeniest bit up to date on the happenings in the media world, he should have known that MSNBC hasn't been liberal for a long time. It's Fox Lite at best, if not giving Fox a run for the conservative voice.

[NewDigs]

And now they dragged BriWi out to remember Prince.

Dead at 57

So sad.

RIP

[Jaded]

And now they dragged BriWi out to remember Prince.

Dead at 57

So sad.

RIP

Sad about Prince but thanks for the warning about BriWi.

[NewDigs]

Sad about Prince but thanks for the warning about BriWi.

Wanna know who BriWi has as a guest?

Clay Aiken.

No joke. Right after Alicia Quarles.

ETA: Aretha Franklin calling in!

Edited April 21, 2016 by NewDigs

[Jaded]

ETA: Aretha Franklin calling in!

She's speculating he may have passed away from the Zika virus.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Jaded

[NewDigs]

That was a big, Huh? Crazy!

Joy Reid was good and BW has actually done a pretty good job. Must be a fan.

Surprised they chose to show "Doves Cry" over "Purple Rain".

Oops. Brian might be going off the rails. Maybe they showed the video waiting for a call.

[Jaded]

That was a big, Huh? Crazy!

Joy Reid was good and BW has actually done a pretty good job. Must be a fan.

Surprised they chose to show "Doves Cry" over "Purple Rain".

Oops. Brian might be going off the rails. Maybe they showed the video waiting for a call.

Joy Reid was good. BriWi keeps turning into Mr. Mumbles. I keep turning it back to MSNBC because they've been speaking to some interesting people. I keep thinking how Vanity passed away not to long ago too.

[NewDigs]

It's official.

BW is off the rails.

He just said that many of us would love to have Prince's wardrobe budget.

I rest my case.

Did they do this much for Bowie?

[NewDigs]

And it looks like they booted BW for Joy Reid.

Improvement.

[NewDigs]

Why am I still seeing Al Sharpton on my tv?

I'll stop. I promise.

eta lets go crazy.

Edited April 21, 2016 by NewDigs

[NextIteration]

I actually hung out in Prince circles way back in the Minneapolis Sound days before he was a Superstah - pre-Purple Rain.  I can't think of anything more hideous than watching BriWi covering this.  Thanks for reporting though!

 

Have they had Toure on yet?  Because they fucking should.

Edited April 21, 2016 by NextIteration

[Jaded]

Have that had Toure on yet?  Because they fucking should.

Joy was talking with him on the phone a bit ago before Al came on. Al keeps repeating himself just to extend his time on TV I think.