Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S01.E06: Red Faced


Tara Ariano
  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

Personally I was hoping that game night meant that the three of them get together and play D&D (or Mutants & Masterminds).

 

Henshaw said that Red Tornado's chassis being lined with lead meant it was at least partially designed to fight Kryptonians, because there are people out there who still think Superman and Supergirl are threats. Fair enough. But that was the best they could come up with? It makes wind? Superman wouldn't have batted an eye stopping a tornado and it only took Kara that long because she had never done it before. If you're anticipating fighting Kryptonians, how is kryptonite NOT a part of every single design?

 

It's entirely possible that no one outside of the DEO even knows about Kryptonite. Neither Kara nor he aunt had any idea what it was when the DEO first used it against them

 

Way to almost reveal Kara's identity to Lucy, Winn.

 

Are the Clark Kent and Kara Danvers identities 'out' as cousins? If so it'd be an easy cover for Winn to say, "... wrote a bunch of stories about him." The surprising thing about that scene was that Lucy seemed to have absolutely no interest as to why "Your cousin" was an easy clue for Superman.

  • Love 1

Are the Clark Kent and Kara Danvers identities 'out' as cousins? 

They've never said, but I'd imagine not. Adoptions can be faked but cousins can't be (the Kents and the Danvers aren't actually related and that can be checked). 

Frankly the other barrier to that is that the Danvers would have to KNOW Clark Kent is Superman, and I don't see why Clark would have trusted them with that information (or have needed to).

Clark trusted the Danvers enough to allow Dean Cain to research him and to raise his only living relative, whether Clark and Kara are known to be cousins or not, I think there's a decent chance that the Danvers were in on the secret ID.

If that were so, then that would mean that the DEO knows Clark Kent is Superman, since Dr. Danvers spilled his guts to them.

 

Really trusting the Danvers with Kara is not the same thing as trusting them with the key to annihilating his entire civilian life (and handing out links to non-invulnerable people who could be held hostage against him). 

I mean that kind of already happens with his known association with Jimmy, and his implied one with Lois, but if people know he's Clark Kent that adds his mother and pretty much anyone he knew in Smallville to the list.

I generally liked this episode, despite some of the plot holes.  Am still not feeling Lucy Lane though.  She resigned her commission just to be with James, even though last time it didn't work out so well?  And now he's got another Superfriend to drop everything and run off and try to help.  Her dad may be bit of an a-hole, but I think he was right in this case.

 

As far as Kara cutting herself goes..just a couple of theories.  Just speculation, as I have not ready any of the comics or seen any upcoming previews or spoilers.  Just pulling this out of me backside.  One theory of mine is that she was drained quite a bit from that encounter with Red Tornado creature.  That perhaps she needs some recharging from the DEO tanning bed.  Of course, that would be too easy. 

 

The second thing I thought of is that she wants so much to be "normal" and mortal.  Maybe this is some sort of psychosomatic thing that is going on with her now.  She wants it so much her body is turning more "mortal".  And that it will keep going that direction until she talks with someone (her mom?  Alex?) and discovers it's really OK to be true to yourself and eventually she gets back being the immortal Supergirl once again.  Just my thoughts on the matter.

I don't think Lucy quit at all. I think the Red Tornado was just an excuse to get close to Kara/Supergirl. I don't think Lucy came back for James at all either. Lucy and her dad know he's tight with Superman, and then he moves to National City and suddenly Supergirl arrives? I think Lucy was investigating the women working with James, and obviously her dad knew about the DEO, how hard would it be to find out Alex works there, and then put 2+2 together. Red Tornado was a hoax to set up Lucy staying in town. Lucy's probably testing out Red Kryptonite on Kara, having perfect access because of James. She'll eventually be in the superhero trust circle and switch sides, just in time for James to find out about the different tests General Lane wanted Lucy to run and end it with her.

  • Love 2

I don't think Lucy quit at all. I think the Red Tornado was just an excuse to get close to Kara/Supergirl. I don't think Lucy came back for James at all either. Lucy and her dad know he's tight with Superman, and then he moves to National City and suddenly Supergirl arrives? I think Lucy was investigating the women working with James, and obviously her dad knew about the DEO, how hard would it be to find out Alex works there, and then put 2+2 together. Red Tornado was a hoax to set up Lucy staying in town. Lucy's probably testing out Red Kryptonite on Kara, having perfect access because of James. She'll eventually be in the superhero trust circle and switch sides, just in time for James to find out about the different tests General Lane wanted Lucy to run and end it with her.

It's an interesting theory. It would explain why they'd show a character who's not supposed to be stupid doing such a dumb thing. But also explain HOW someone could just quit the army without notice.

  • Love 1

I thought Lucy's first real conversation with Kara was weird- her asking if James might like Supergirl. At the time, I just thought she was warning Kara off, but I couldn't figure out why she would see Kara as a rival for James' affection. Lucy was too smooth in that convo imo though, and why ask Kara, for all Lucy knew Kara is kind of a friend to James? Then there's this episodes conversations with specifically saying that stuff about Supergirl at game night. Why would she say that in front of James if she thought there was a chance he was friends with Supergirl? Plus she grabbed that card from Wynn really fast once he said it was Kara's cousin.

  • Love 1

I thought Lucy's first real conversation with Kara was weird- her asking if James might like Supergirl. At the time, I just thought she was warning Kara off, but I couldn't figure out why she would see Kara as a rival for James' affection. Lucy was too smooth in that convo imo though, and why ask Kara, for all Lucy knew Kara is kind of a friend to James? Then there's this episodes conversations with specifically saying that stuff about Supergirl at game night. Why would she say that in front of James if she thought there was a chance he was friends with Supergirl? Plus she grabbed that card from Wynn really fast once he said it was Kara's cousin.

Although I think your theory is interesting, I would say it's not too much of a stretch that Lucy would behave the way she did just innocuously.

 

Lucy could be the sort of person who just expresses what's on her mind. Presumably, she knows Kara and Jimmy are friends and so had no problem expressing her fears about Jimmy and Supergirl preventing her from getting back with Jimmy. 

 

The stuff she said about Supergirl at Game Night makes sense too. She's jealous about Supergirl and can't help let it slip out.

 

Indeed, if Lucy knows Kara=Supergirl and is on some mission to investigate her, ti seems like it would be counterproductive to bring up Supergirl at all in any context when she's just Kara.

wait - was the originally the whole point of Red Tornado's creation? General lane wanted it to kill Supergirl? Or use it as a reason to blame Supergirl for all the world's ills?

I have another perplexing question: How the HECK did Alex venture into DR. Morrow's lair without backup? or have plainclothes backup stationed somewhere nearby? She walked into a death trap.

As far as Kara cutting herself goes..just a couple of theories.  Just speculation, as I have not ready any of the comics or seen any upcoming previews or spoilers.  Just pulling this out of me backside.  One theory of mine is that she was drained quite a bit from that encounter with Red Tornado creature.  That perhaps she needs some recharging from the DEO tanning bed.  Of course, that would be too easy.

 

I forget exactly how it was said, but in the preview for next week it was stated that she did indeed drain her powers.  When she was eye-beaming Red Tornado in that scene, I thought her head was going to explode at one point.

 

Calista Flockhart's character is the standard tv trope of shallow domineering boss bitch evolving into deep empathetic understanding mentor.  Really cliche, but I do like Calista Flockhart.

 

I liked when Hank stood up to General Douchebag, I was getting tired of the "Let's beat up on Supergirl" theme.  When the A-hole who almost ran the kids down came at her, I was like, wouldn't the kids and their coaches have told the reporters how they were almost road kill because of this idiot?  Instead they had everyone react like Supergirl was really awful for breaking the guy's wrist when he tried to deck her.  The kids would have been cheering if that happened for real, give me a break.  Just really stupid writing to service this ongoing theme that everyone just "misunderstands" Supergirl.

 

Alex's boss is another typical tv trope.  Mysterious leader character who has a dark secret and isn't who he seems.  If it plays out how I think it will, we'll learn that he really is alien and really was involved in what happened to Alex's dad, but he's not the killer.  Heck, Dean Cain might still be alive even.  Another cliche, but I do like the character so far as well.

 

Still liking this show despite the flaws and occasionally stupid writing, it's good semi-mindless fun.

Edited by Dobian
  • Love 1

I thought Lucy's first real conversation with Kara was weird- her asking if James might like Supergirl. At the time, I just thought she was warning Kara off, but I couldn't figure out why she would see Kara as a rival for James' affection. Lucy was too smooth in that convo imo though, and why ask Kara, for all Lucy knew Kara is kind of a friend to James? Then there's this episodes conversations with specifically saying that stuff about Supergirl at game night. Why would she say that in front of James if she thought there was a chance he was friends with Supergirl? Plus she grabbed that card from Wynn really fast once he said it was Kara's cousin.

I don't think that Lucy knows Kara is Supergirl.  She sees Kara as a nerdy youngster, a workplace friend of Jimmy's but who wouldn't be any real competition.  The real competition is Superman, "Jimmy's special boyfriend" and the reason they broke up before.  If Superman took time away that she thought Jimmy should be spending with her, imagine how much worse it would be with Supergirl since Jimmy is heterosexual.

 

Her comment that she met Supergirl and she's not all that after all is a way to show that she's trying to consider Supergirl as less of a threat to her relationship with Jimmy.  Not too smart if she really is a friend of his.

Edited by statsgirl
  • Love 1

Lucy may not have known Kara is Supergirl, but Wynn's little game night slip up might make her start thinking in that direction. "Your cousin!" was his hint, to which Kara, Wynn and Jimmy all reacted with some degree of panic. She grabs the card and sees the answer is Superman. The public now knows that Superman and Supergirl are cousins. It shouldn't be hard for Lucy to put the pieces together.

  • Love 1

Calista Flockhart's character is the standard tv trope of shallow domineering boss bitch evolving into deep empathetic understanding mentor. 

Still liking this show despite the flaws and occasionally stupid writing, it's good semi-mindless fun.

It is possible I enjoyed the show this week because I was sick but, I was suprised to see so much hate for it.  There is so very much cliche usually in the early days of any superhero show... as they look to the book and try to figure out the show and make it interesting. But it got me this week with Kara having typical human emotions and that was a big plot arc. I think that is pretty rare on ANY superhuman show to examine what it means for them to get angry. Usually they don't touch that with a 10 foot pole in some real human way (as opposed to some supernatural thing making them angry like Red Kryptonite). What really would have have been cliche imho would have been for General Lane to dump on her and then have her apologizing or the show acting like she had something to apologize for. I thought the show rightly showed how people dump on Kara because she is a "girl".  As "supergirl" or kara. That really is stuff that isn't usually covered in most shows.

 

I am sorry to have to say this beause I like the actor but Jimmy has got to go. His character is not working and seems to have little place in this world. Jimmy, any Lanes etc are ok to introduce the idea of a "superman" world but now they have to go back to Metropolis and let Kara Danvers have her own world.

  • Love 2

Another tip that National City is supposed to be somewhere in California: Kat's mother's lunch with Toni Morrison and Margaret Atwood was going to be in Mendocino, which is on the northern Cali coast north of the Bay Area.

 

I believe CatMom actually said "Montecito," which is near Santa Barbara, but your point stands. 

Edited by Shades of Scarlet
  • Love 1

Actually I just realized my "we've never seen the Ocean" bit is wrong too. We did, when Supergirl screwed up with that ship. They pretty clearly stated that this was in National City and not some trip she took elsewhere.

 

While this is all shot in LA (excluding the desert shots), I still don't think this is actually supposed to be a direct LA proxy. I really am still thinking it's some kind of fictionalized San Diego stand-in, albeit still one with slightly adjusted geography, since I don't think the outskirts of San Diego has desert that looks quite like the more scrubby looking desert we see outside of National City.

  • Love 1

That General was the worst. You have a billion dollar killing machine on the loose and you decide to fire the creator/designer immediately. Honestly it'd be easier to capture it and reprogram it with his help. 

 

Also way to tip off the super powered ally that you're plotting against her and her cousin. I don't know why SuperGirl tolerated his nonsense. Other than that she's a push over. 

I still like your post, but this is where I disagree. Which is fine. 

 

I loved Kara's expression after the "You're so mean!" It was glorious and undercut her (correct) anger and was the funniest thing.

 

Well, let's face it.  Probably everyone has wanted to tell his or her boss off at least once -- but few of us would actually dare to do it, and we'd probably have the same expression on our faces:  "Oh, no!  What have I just done?"

  • Love 1

I knew there was a bit of a plothole nagging me after this one.  I'm having a little trouble squaring the general's anti-alien bigotry with allowing his other daughter to date Superman.  Or is this some version of the mythology where no one knows Lois and Superman are an item? 

Lois is a grown-ass woman, so General Lane can't stop her from dating whoever she wants. Also, various versions of the Superman mythos have the Lois-Clark-Superman love triangle in different stages of seriousness and involvement. Supergirl's Superman is at least 12 years into being Superman, which could mean that Lois is married to Clark by now and the public notion of Superman and Lois being romantic is not a thing any more.

 

But assuming General Lane knows of a romance between Superman and Lois, it could be yet another factor in his anti-alien bigotry.

  • Love 1

I knew there was a bit of a plothole nagging me after this one.  I'm having a little trouble squaring the general's anti-alien bigotry with allowing his other daughter to date Superman.  Or is this some version of the mythology where no one knows Lois and Superman are an item? 

That's most if not all versions. She's not really ever his public girlfriend--just the reporter he talks to most openly. At best, the same people who know Clark Kent = Superman know about the relationship. There might be some point in the Silver Age when they were openly publicly dating, but.... if so that's long gone.

 

In a few versions she even dates Clark (not knowing he's Superman). In one she does find out then marries Clark (which is undone later by a reboot)--but actually in that one more than most General Lane would have no idea of any relationship between Lois and Superman. Or now they've recently in the past few years had this crap where he's dating Wonder Woman instead (although maybe they're already undone that now too). 

That's most if not all versions. She's not really ever his public girlfriend--just the reporter he talks to most openly. At best, the same people who know Clark Kent = Superman know about the relationship. There might be some point in the Silver Age when they were openly publicly dating, but.... if so that's long gone.

 

In a few versions she even dates Clark (not knowing he's Superman). In one she does find out then marries Clark (which is undone later by a reboot)--but actually in that one more than most General Lane would have no idea of any relationship between Lois and Superman. Or now they've recently in the past few years had this crap where he's dating Wonder Woman instead (although maybe they're already undone that now too). 

 

 

 

Thanks; I couldn't remember where recent comics came down on the status of their relationship.  Heck, it was sort of murky in Man of Steel, even though we've all figured out that this can't me the same Earth that MOS takes place on.  It just bothered me and struck me as something that could have used a mention in dialogue before introducing Lucy and her dad.  

I knew there was a bit of a plothole nagging me after this one.  I'm having a little trouble squaring the general's anti-alien bigotry with allowing his other daughter to date Superman.  Or is this some version of the mythology where no one knows Lois and Superman are an item? 

 

Considering the way he practically disowned Lucy when she quit her commission and made it clear that she wanted a relationship with James in spite of her father's disapproval, I'd say that Lois is probably already dead to him because of her relationship with Superman.

Edited by legaleagle53

That's most if not all versions. She's not really ever his public girlfriend--just the reporter he talks to most openly. At best, the same people who know Clark Kent = Superman know about the relationship. There might be some point in the Silver Age when they were openly publicly dating, but.... if so that's long gone. 

 

Lois had her own comic subtitled "Superman's Girl Friend" for a more than a decade, and there was an ongoing plot where she was trying to get Superman to marry her. I don't remember specific cases, but I'm fairly sure various villains tried to get at Superman through Lois (and Jimmy and Perry).

In Superman II, Lex calls her out as Superman's girlfriend, and Ursa is all catty about it. And in Superman Returns, Lex clearly suspects Lois's kid is Superman's and tries to see if he will react to Kryptonite.

 

So I'd have to say that there was probably a pretty prolonged stretch where the public at least suspected there might be something going on between Superman and Lois.

 

But yeah, over the 80 or so year history of Superman, there's been so many changes probably any thing's been tried once.

Lois had her own comic subtitled "Superman's Girl Friend" for a more than a decade, and there was an ongoing plot where she was trying to get Superman to marry her. I don't remember specific cases, but I'm fairly sure various villains tried to get at Superman through Lois (and Jimmy and Perry).

1.) "There might be some point in the Silver Age when they were openly publicly dating, but.... if so that's long gone." 

2.) That doesn't mean them dating was publicly known in-universe.  People on Earth-1 weren't reading a comic book called "Lois Lane: Superman's Girl Friend".

3.) But of course she and Jimmy were both targeted. At the very least for some reason everyone seemed to know Jimmy had a watch to contact Superman, and that Lois printed an interview with him like... once a month.

http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Lois_Lane

 

Lois' main interests in various late 1950s and 1960s stories became vying with her rival Lana Lang for Superman's affections, attempting to prove Clark Kent and Superman were one and the same, and tricking or otherwise forcing Superman into Marriage. Superman's rationale for resisting her matrimonial desires was that she could be trusted not to keep his secret identity hidden, and that marrying her would put her in increased danger from his enemies (Of course, this ignored the fact that his romantic relationship with her was already public knowledge).

 

It wasn't just a possible point during the Silver Age where people in general knew that Lois and Superman had a thing...it was basically the entire Silver Age in the comics, and also in many of the animated, TV and film versions of Superman.

I liked this episode. I'm also (slowly) watching Jessica Jones right now, and it's nice to have a superhero show just be fun and upbeat. All of the characters are gelling for me.

 

The main things that didn't work for me were that General Lane would be so illogically stupid about Red Tornado and Supergirl and that Max Lord was needed for the revelation about tracking down Morrow. Firing Morrow made zero sense for the reason already listed--Morrow knows the most about Red Tornado and so is the best person to help find it and get it back. Also, that was some pretty impressive tech. The Max Lord thing was just transparent excuse to get him screentime with Alex, which if he weren't so likely to be villainous would be okay with me because I like the two of them together in scenes. (I don't actually want Alex and Lord to be together, mind you. Even before the end of last week revealed Lord's probable villainy, he just comes across as douchey.)

 

Winn and Cat have grown on me so much since the pilot it's amazing. I love and get both of them. 

 

Cat's line about not being allowed to be angry at work was almost certainly a not-so-veiled reference to an article written about Jill Abramson (prior to her firing by the New York Times, natch). The discrepancy in how the media reported on Abramson's anger with employees versus her white male predecessor was much talked about in the progressive blogosphere after her firing.

statsgirl  General Lane would be the perfect match for Cat's mother.  So it's Supergirl's fault that General Lane commissioned an android to take her out but she beat it up?  And her fault that they failed to put in a failsafe device into it.

 

 

God, General Lane is such a dick! It's not enough that he dislikes aliens, it's that he can't even decide WHY he dislikes them. I guess he paralleled the roadrage driver in the opening who seemed to be going "How dare you hurt my hand while I was punching you in the face!" (and I agree with Dobian, she'd get cheers from the school kids for that in all likelihood). OK, maybe he's just meant to be a parody of anti-immigrant sentiment: "They're coming here to sponge off us" (ie. lazy) on the one hand but "Stealing our jobs" (ie. industrious) on the other. I wouldn't have minded if he'd gone "You went off to save a handful of people but let the cyborg escape to endanger thousands!" OR "You went haring off after the Red Tornado but left all those people to die!" but he seemed to want to blame Supergirl no matter what she did (and yes, he does come off like "Thunderbolt" Ross)

 

Lantern7 Why did Kara have to get a car dangling like a heavy bag? Has Winn never introduced her to the bonus rounds of Street Fighter II? You can vent on a regularly-parked car.

 

 

Or just a large concrete pillar she can pulverise into dust! Maybe she's not enough of a nerd to play SF II (or she played Blanka and just electrified it!)

 

Perfect Xero  I was hoping that game night meant that the three of them get together and play D&D (or Mutants & Masterminds).

 

Surely Marvel Superheroes would be more appropriate - except it's the wrong company. Maybe GURPS Supers?

 

Chicago Redshirt There are plenty of classic games that can be played with only two.

 

 

Well yes, but this is a family show!

Edited by John Potts

I think everybody's covered the stupid that was General Lane so I'll just deal with the topper for me. Lucy Lane giving up her entire career so she can date Jimmy just because Daddy didn't like him. Does she apply for a transfer? No, she resigns her commission. And why? It's not as if her boss/Dad can dictate who she dates anyway. In fact, he didn't because she was already with him.

 

I could handle it if we'd seen any indication through this episode that she was dissatified with her job and not in a general 'I don't like what's happening right now' way. I'd be fine with it if she resigned because she was unhappy with the direction the military was going in their treatment of supes. I'm sorry but resigning your commission is HUGE. Especially if you're a Major. Also, it takes months. But she likes a boy, so of course the job goes. Ergh.

 

Could this show get any worse? I doubt it, so maybe it can only get better from here on in.

I can't remember who said it but someone suggested that she didn't really resign, it's an undercover plan to be a mole among Jimmy and Supergirl's other friends and get the dirt on her that way.

 

That would be a better plot for me.

 

That would make way more sense to me in terms of her behaviour this episode. I hope so. Although that would mean she's been nothing but manipulative since she came back into Jimmy's life and that's really kind of horrible. In that context, her comment to Kara about Jimmy being with Supergirl because she was "Superman with a skirt" was hugely manipulative and designed to make Kara question her attraction to him. If she knows (suspects) Kara is Supergirl then some of her comments to her are extremely rude in retrospect

While I find a lot of the girl angst off putting at times in this show, I actually thought the way this ep came together was well done. All the anger and hurt channeled into destroying the robot. Nicely acted as well. It adds another dimension to being a super being that I might end up enjoying. 

 

What I don't understand is how Lucy was in the military. Didn't she work with Jimmy at the newspaper? I did miss an episode.

What I don't understand is how Lucy was in the military. Didn't she work with Jimmy at the newspaper?

No. That would be Lois Lane, not Lucy Lane.

It seems odd that Kara wouldn't have noticed her powers were gone until that moment in the office unless that heat vision blast burned through most of her power and she hasn't had enough time to recharge before using the rest to fly back home.   It might be like Superman's new solar flare power that leaves him powerless for about a day after.

Well, we still don't know the cause or if it's really the same "power" but it's worth noting the title of S01.E07 is "Human For A Day".

I'm also a civilian and don't know the answer, but it bugs me that they didn't just have her say that her term was about to run out and she was stepping down.  Granted, that's far less dramatic than "resigning my commission," but it's also far more reasonable.

 

 

Her term? What are you talking about? She's a Major in the JAG Core. She doesn't have a term. A military commission's like a puppy, dude. It's for life. You only put that puppy down if you really believe it's the best decision. For the puppy. You don't quit over a boy. Not just stupid but massively offensive to women to have a female character behave this way.

 

Unless of course this whole thing has been a ploy by her father to infiltrate Supergirl/Superman's circle of friends. Which would make her a truly horrible person, especially when neither are actually criminals, but at least would be a less offensive script choice for a show that touts itself as "feminist".

  • Love 1

Her term? What are you talking about? She's a Major in the JAG Core. She doesn't have a term. A military commission's like a puppy, dude. It's for life. You only put that puppy down if you really believe it's the best decision. For the puppy. You don't quit over a boy. Not just stupid but massively offensive to women to have a female character behave this way.

 

Having had friends who went through college on ROTC scholarships, became commissioned officers and left the service as soon as their obligation was completed, I respectfully disagree with your first point.  But they didn't make it to Major, either.  I'll leave this topic alone and let those with actual military experience chime in if they desire (which may be you, I don't know).

If the US is anything like the UK (and I believe it's similar) you are committed to a period of x years (7, I think) once you enlist, though if you want to become a General, you need to re-enlist at the end of that term. Though you can quit while still training (I think the idea is that the army wants to make sure they get at least one active duty tour out of those it invests in, but it will allow you to pull out if It looks like you aren't suited to the task). The only way Lucy would be able to quit like she did was if her term was up and she was considering re-enlisting while acting as an Aide(?) to her dad, but hadn't actually done so yet (though she seems of implausibly high rank - even given the nepotism!). Like the idea she's trying to become a mole in the DEO (I doubt it, but it would be a good twist).

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...