S05.E10: Broken Heart

[InsertWordHere]

Merlin is Dumbledore, Hook is Snape (no no no!), and they had to have him (HP spoiler alert) kill Merlin to infiltrate the Death Eaters so they could gain control of Hogwarts, I mean, Storybrooke. Emma (Harry) had to witness this so she'd think he'd gone really dark.

 

You will pry this Hook is tricking the darkness belief from my cold dead hands, A&E! Or until it blows up in my face next Sunday. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[TwistedandBored]

I must say, I didn't expect Hook as The Dark One to be soo whiny. He was giving me Regina feels throughout the episode. I mean he wanted revenge against Rumple, the man who took his hand because Hook took his wife. Scorned husband coming after you is really not out the realm of possibility. Never mind the fact Hook left what's his name with his evil grandfather, Pan in oder to escape. Hook always owned his crap and this episode just gave me a bad taste in my mouth. Really, if anything I thought he would be the one few people who knows what letting the darkness inn could cost a person. Him going from 0-180 just had me scratching my had. Nothing made sense during the whole episode. 

 

Also, I am super sad they killed Merlin, one of the greatest wizard ever in such a way. More importantly, they really shouldn't have casted someone like Elliot Knight if they didn't want me to get attached to him this much. 

[kili]

 

I didn't catch the title of this episode, but I'm pretty sure that it must be "Logic Takes a Holiday".

 

Why didn't Clippy!Rumple visit Hook in Storybooke prior to Hook looking at his memories? Did Clippy!Rumple have his memories stolen too so he only harassed Emma (because it appears that Hook and Emma were sharing Clippy!Rumple)? Why did Hook go from being nice guy to being a holy terror in two minutes flat? If it was because he didn't have his memories, doesn't that mean the darkness has no pull on him? He couldn't feel it at all. If the darkness has no pull on him, what's his excuse for being dark? 

 

Nobody took Rumple's memories. How come he didn't know what Nimue was up to? Surely she pitched her plan to him. He could have resurrected the Dark Ones at any time after he was re-generated in the vault (thanks Neal! That's the gift that just keeps on giving) and could have used his own blood. I guess Hook really is worse than Rumple at his worst.

 

What's the deal with Excalibur? It being whole had no bearing on what Hook did. He just needed a little blood from Rumple to work his magic. So, why did Nimue want it re-forged in Storybook?  Last time we saw the sword, it was lying on the deck of the JR.

 

Who put the Dreamcatchers in the clock tower? Will it just be a dropped point? Nice that it was directly above where they were all looking in books for answers.

 

Last week, Belle was protecting Rumple with a cross-bow and this week she is dumping him after his second heroic turn? What? I just got whiplash? He's finally the person that she always said he was.

 

Henry trusted Regina and Rumple when they were still being actively evil and kept insisting everybody save/protect them even though they kept evil things. Why is he not trusting Emma? I kind of half believe that Hook was going around impersonating everybody. First he's Henry and then he's Belle. Next week, he's going glamour himself into Grannie and tell her he likes her lasagne? Why not? It's more logical than many of the character's actions.

 

Nothing Merlin did made any logical sense. He's sitting in Grannie brewing up the Dark Curse while leaving cryptic voicemails telling innocent people to find his psychopathic girlfriend with no warning that she is a psychopath. Is he trying to get everybody killed?

 

I liked that Colin got some opportunities to stretch his acting skills, but I'm not liking the character assassination. Some are predicting this is all some sort of double-cross thing that Hook has going on, but I doubt it. The writer's will have Hook do many horrible things and then tell us he is redeemed and we will be expected to believe it with no action on his part. They'll just hit re-set.

 

On the one hand, I'm impressed that I predicted weeks ago that the duel between Rumple/Hook would be all about how Rumple is redeemed. He not only got to win the unwindable battle, he also got to show mercy and spare the life of his enemy. The Rumple is a Hero parade marches on. On the other hand, I'm unhappy because I was hoping that Hook would come to his own senses or he was trying to protect Emma or some little redeeming thing. But, it's worse, it was all about unleashing the Dark Ones. I guess I should be glad his incompetent fighting skills at least spared him from notching another murder on his belt.  

 

I did like that Zelena gets to see her daughter. She's no worse than Regina when Regina was allowed to keep Henry. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by kili

[oliverwendell]

 

You will pry this Hook is tricking the darkness belief from my cold dead hands, A&E! Or until it blows up in my face next Sunday.

 

I am right there with you. This had better be a long con. A long, piratey con, in which Hook lures all the Dark Ones out of Hades so they can be killed en masse, which can (somehow) only happen if he goads Emma into killing him while they are on the terrestrial plane. Because if this is just him being a Darkness-infested asshole while Emma was such a noble Dark One, I'm going to have a tough time thinking he is worthy of her--even if he does do an about-face and sacrifices himself at the last minute. 

 

(I will say, if this is a long con, he is doing a great job of the "goading Emma into killing him" part. I'd kill myself if I were her, even without his targeting her family in the promos for next week.)

 

 

Some are predicting this is all some sort of double-cross thing that Hook has going on, but I doubt it. The writer's will have Hook do many horrible things and then tell us he is redeemed and we will be expected to believe it with no action on his part. They'll just hit re-set.

 

Sadly, despite my desperate hopes, I have no confidence that this isn't going to be the case.

Edited November 30, 2015 by oliverwendell

[Emma]

I've never wanted to punt Henry like a football more than I did tonight.

As a CS fan this was brutal to watch. Just brutal.

[Camera One]

For an episode filled with plot, this episode sure felt like it had little to no momentum.  Of course Hook wasn't going to kill Rumple, so don't try to use that as the major climax.  The flashbacks just felt like a by-the-numbers paint in the cracks job.

 

Poor Merlin.  We hardly knew you.  Literally.  The Writers couldn't let him live because he had answers.  No Merlin = no need to address any of the Sorcerer-Continuity problems from Season 4.  

 

It is Crunch Time in Storybrooke, and Regina gets a subplot escorting Zelena to a baby-visitation session?  WTF?  Wouldn't Regina have already thought of doing a spell to find the Dreamcatchers?  I liked Henry and Dark Emma working together, but the way this was set up made no logical sense. First of all, did Zelena forget her magic was more powerful than Regina's?  She could have poofed herself to the loft in a New York minute, and be halfway to Oz.  Having Henry did not change Regina.  If it did, why was Regina still evil in Season 1?  This desperate need to shoe-in Zelena and Regina in this episode was a waste of time.

 

Meanwhile, half the episode, Snow, Charming and Belle are shuffled off-screen to read "The Dark One Chronicles".  Are we supposed to believe that Belle hasn't read that cover to cover by now?  Wouldn't it be a tad faster to ask Blue?  And wait, what did they find from the book... oh yeah, NOTHING!

 

Why did they have to add the line about Henry forgiving Gold?  Regina I can see, but Gold?  WTF?  

 

Oh look, Lancelot was behind that tree all along!  I love it when this show gives us the answers.

 

Now that we have Dark Hook, Dark Emma can just act like Emma, except for the wardrobe, of course. 

 

Belle breaking it off with Rumple would have been a good scene... in Season 2.  But at this point, it made no sense and had zero build-up, so once again, this relationship is like a ping-pong ball bouncing inside a closed isolated chamber.    Why are the writers making it like the only "problem" that Rumple has is not stepping up to a fight.  How about all the innocent people he killed and all the lives he destroyed?  But no, Rumple's heart is "pure now".  By those standards, isn't Dark Emma's heart pure too?

 

I can't believe Merida got to stand there with a Dreamcatcher pouring golden sunshine into her mind but Granny and the Dwarves were excluded from the fun.  Everyone getting their memories back was actually completely unnecessary, by the way.

 

Dark Ones need to "replenish their water supply"?  LOL.  

 

To raise the dead, all you need is the blood of a man who has been to hell and back.  As Staples says, That was easy!

 

And the line of the night belongs to Arthur, whose answer to "What's that cloud of doom?" is "Dark magic.... EXTREMELY dark magic."  All we need is laugh track at this point.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

Why were Nurse Ratched and her mop guy in the maternity ward? I thought they permanently lived down in the secret basement. 

 

Dark Ones need to "replenish their water supply"?  LOL.

Yeah, that was hilarious. Maybe it lends more credence to the Hook was visiting Merlin and plotting something theory? Otherwise, I got nothing.

[KAOS Agent]

I know a lot of people are on the Hook's got a plan train, but logic says no. If he plans to free the Dark Ones so that he can have her kill him and all of the Darkness, why was he encouraging Rumpel to kill him on the ship? He dies there and this plan never happens. Also, removing the Darkness from Emma by having her kill him might make Emma not the Dark One, but it will also totally destroy her. Making her hate him won't mitigate the horror of having to kill the guy she managed to open her heart to. After the way she was treated by her family  tonight, Emma being Emma would realize that all she does is hurt the people she loves, so it's best if she just goes. So normal Emma leaves Storybrooke for good and leads a lonely, miserable existence for the rest of her life. How nice for her.

 

And if his plan goes wrong, everyone dies. Even better.

Edited November 30, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[oliverwendell]

 

Also, removing the Darkness from Emma by having her kill him might make Emma not the Dark One, but it will also totally destroy her. Making her hate him won't mitigate the horror of having to kill the guy she managed to open her heart to.

 

While I agree with you it's highly unlikely Hook has been planning to kill the Dark Ones all along, I can't stop hoping that he has, and that incorrigibly optimistic part of me has to rebut your statement. Dark One Hook is probably not capable of seeing the long-term repercussions on Emma of goading her into killing him. He's still a Dark One, after all, and Dark Ones are not super capable of empathy. So I could buy him wanting to sacrifice himself and save her, but also being incapable of fathoming the emotional price she would pay. It's kind of like Emma being willing to kill Zelena to banish the Darkness and save Hook, or Hook being willing to kill Merlin to do the same for Emma (if that was his intent). In short, Dark Ones aren't really bothered by touchy-feely counter-arguments to their infernal methods, even when they are working for "good" ends.

[Rumsy4]

Oh look, Lancelot was behind that tree all along! I love it when this show gives us the answers.

LMAO.

Now that we have Dark Hook, Dark Emma can just act like Emma, except for the wardrobe, of course.

Yeah--one of the many inexplicable things in this episode.

[Zuleikha]

First of all, did Zelena forget her magic was more powerful than Regina's?

It's not. Her dark magic is more powerful than Regina's. But the whole climax of 3B was that when Regina uses light magic, she's more powerful than Zelena. Of course, I can't blame anyone for forgetting this fact because the show has apparently forgotten this fact as well given that we've seen Regina use light magic exactly 0 times since then.

 

Also, Zelena's power should be lessened since she lost her necklace.

[PixiePaws1]

that was just hideously excruciating. ...my poor Emma!!

The only and i mean ONLY way Killian comes back from this is Nimue has completely taken over. She had to be gunning for Emma after Emma beat her and then Killian turning up as a DO and so easily manipulated. (i mean one of the first things he says to earworm Rumple is i won't listen and then he spends the whole ep doing just that! )...Nimue must have been dancing with joy with getting revenge on Emma with Killian doing what she wants...

Count me in as confused because it looked like the Darkness distracted him on purpose giving Rumple the win....and if Killian took the dreamcatchers why didn't he just destroy them?? why didn't he just take Excalibur back. ..it can't control him so he could just poofed it out of Rumple's hand? If Killian is trying to work against the Darkness then he's in really deep cover...but I don't believe he is...

Hey ...i was right that the blood of a resurrected person would open portal!

Edited November 30, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[KAOS Agent]

Zelena is a moron. She loves her daughter so much that she unleashes and encourages the Dark One who wants to kill everyone including her newborn daughter. I know she's the show's walking Contrivance Fairy, but it's just so dumb.

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think Hook's plan is for Emma to kill him. I think his plan is to release the darkness from himself, the other Dark Ones, and Emma. The immortality is what's keeping him alive right now. Once it goes, he will still die from the Excalibur wound. Emma just temporarily stopped it. 

[RadioGirl27]

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get about how fast Hook went Dark Side in this episode. It was like 0-60 on the evil scale. And it was all because of the darkness? Alright then, explain to us how its affecting him, explain his perspective, explain how the freaking hell the "Dark One" stuff actually works!

You know what else bugs me? Hooks whole issue seems to be that his choice was taken away. But, this whole storyline is taking away all the agency he has as a character. This turn happened so fast because its not about him. Its about Emma. His worth is being reduced to "Emmas tragic love interest". It has nothing to do with him personally or his struggle towards redemption. Its about creating more angst for Emma, and moving the plot forward.

Hook's character development abd redemption arc are just collateral damage in this story that is not about him but about Emma and Rumple. Hook has never been a character for A&E, just a prop for Emma and Rumple, and this is just another proof of that.

[Jul 68]

why didn't he just take Excalibur back. ..it can't control him so he could just poofed it out of Rumple's hand?

This really bugged me. They made a point to say that Excaliber can't control him at least twice, yet Emma was able to summon him with it in the CGI not a rose field. They even had a discussion about how it feels to be controlled by others against your will. Oh yeah, and she accidentally compelled him to wait (or was it stop) while she was holding the sword.

[KAOS Agent]

Once Excalibur was put back together, it couldn't control him. But as the broken sword, he was controllable, just as Emma was able to be controlled by the dagger.

[PixiePaws1]

.if Killian was full throttle DO in SB why can he see Earworm Rumple? ? Once he embraced the Darkness then shouldn't Earworm Rumple cease to appear unless he was summoned like Emma had to do see Nimue to get the spark?

Edited November 30, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Jul 68]

Once Excalibur was put back together, it couldn't control him. But as the broken sword, he was controllable, just as Emma was able to be controlled by the dagger.

I could have sworn that it was whole in that scene. Isn't it the same scene where she gives it to him to prove her trust? I'll have to rewatch it now.

Forgive me. I had insomnia last night and didn't sleep a bit, so my brain is kinda mushy right now. Alas, I must now wake up my teenager and get us ready for our day.

[Mari]

Why did they have to add the line about Henry forgiving Gold?  Regina I can see, but Gold?  WTF?  

Well, they had to make sure we understood that Dark Swan is far, far more selfish than Regina and Rumple ever were--Henry is often the voice of the author.

 

Hah.  And hah.

 

Sometimes I hate this show.

[Writing Wrongs]

Did Henry do magic? WTH?

[Randomosity]

Dark Ones need to "replenish their water supply"?  LOL.  

 

I was going nuts trying to figure out what sort of obvious metaphor I could be missing when he said that.  ...but I still got nothing. It was such an obviously weird comment to make. It would have made more sense if he joked about going to see a 'man about a horse' or something.

 

So sleep is a no-go for dark ones, but proper hydration is a necessity??

 

I'm just going to keep forcing myself to not think to hard about this episode (season) lest the WTFs take over.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I was so hopeful that it was Hades who was going to be stepping off that boat from the underworld....  

[Triskan]

mma appeared to only take away those in the diner's memories with the dreamcatcher, because they knew she made Hook a Dark One, so why did Merida and the Camelot crew lose their memories, too.

 

 

She added the dreamcatcher to the spell, thus erasing everyone's memory... or at least everyone that was taken by the spell.

[Rumsy4]

I don't think Hook's plan is for Emma to kill him. I think his plan is to release the darkness from himself, the other Dark Ones, and Emma. The immortality is what's keeping him alive right now. Once it goes, he will still die from the Excalibur wound. Emma just temporarily stopped it.

Oh, good point! Dump all the Darkness into the Original DO and get rid of her. Clippy!Nimue did say she was all the Dark Ones or something. And Hook would die naturally from his wound. I would prefer that, tbh.

I was going nuts trying to figure out what sort of obvious metaphor I could be missing when he said that. ...but I still got nothing. It was such an obviously weird comment to make. It would have made more sense if he joked about going to see a 'man about a horse' or something.

I almost thought it was a joke referring to their Neverland kiss. This was such a contrived excuse to seperate them so Hook could hear Excalibur calling to him. The writers aren't even trying anymore. lol

[Chaos Theory]

I am loath to read anyone else's posts on this board because I know people around here it comes down to Regina bad Hook awesome when I finds Hook usually meh but honestly that isn't my problem with this episode.

I would have loved it if Emma cast the curse but since Emma is the HERO and more important the SAVIOR even as the Dark One she can't do anything particularly evil which leaves her boy toy Hook to be the big bad of the season which I find boring.

I get the shoe "isn't it romantic?" And growing experience for Emma but having Hook brig the one to cast the curse instead on Emma feels cheap.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[kili]

Why were Nurse Ratched and her mop guy in the maternity ward? I thought they permanently lived down in the secret basement.

They were, but they needed somebody for Zelena to knock out and David Anders wasn't available, so Nurse Ratchet it was. There was almost zero logic in the episode, so one must look for the logic externally.

 

Another WTF moment is that Robin is taking care of GreenBean in Snowing's apartment. What? Regina lives in a gorgeous house and can instantly magic up all the baby stuff one could ever want, but Robin is hanging around in Snowing's crummy apartment? I can't even fanwank that it still has all the anti-Zelena protection spells, because Regina cast those spells so she could very well cast them on her own house (and probably should have since her own son lives there). So, the only logic is that the house was not available for filming or the budget did not allow for the renting of it.

[Mari]

I would have loved it if Emma cast the curse but since Emma is the HERO and more important the SAVIOR even as the Dark One she can't do anything particularly evil which leaves her boy toy Hook to be the big bad of the season which I find boring.

Just curious--what about Emma being the "savior"  and "hero" would make her casting the curse more interesting or meaningful?  

 I can't even fanwank that it still has all the anti-Zelena protection spells, because Regina cast those spells so she could very well cast them on her own house (and probably should have since her own son lives there).

Plus, Zelena marched right in, so they apparently weren't effective any longer.  (If they were at all in the first place, since people didn't actually stay in the apartment after Regina cast them the first time.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You know, I have put up with Jennifer Morrison's mumbling and creating rushed run on sentences without taking a breath for five seasons but when you add her lower pitched Dark One voice, I HAVE FUCKING HAD IT. I have extremely good hearing (to the point that I heard a mouse caught in a trap squeaking while I had on headphones to listen to music) so it seems ridiculous that this season I have had to rewind this show and turn the sound all the way up to try to figure out what the hell she is saying several times per episode now that she is the Dark One. For crying out loud, learn how to enunciate and respect the commas and periods that the writers use to indicate the end of phrases and sentences.

 

Regina can still STFU and have a seat. Really? The unconditional love of a child is what made you a better person? How does that explain the first nine or ten years of Henry's life when you were still being an evil heinous bitch? Hopefully it doesn't take Zelena that long to finally stop being evil.

 

But there were still a few things from Regina that were good. So glad she reminded Zelena that the only reason this baby exists is because she murdered Marion and then raped Robin repeatedly (of course, no mention that Regina was raping Graham in S1 because she is totally redeemed and a good person and the bestest mom ever now!). I also liked that when Zelena insisted that the baby was HER baby, Regina reminded her that the baby is Robin's too. It drives me crazy on The Originals every time that Klaus talks about how Hope is HIS baby, conveniently forgetting that she also has a mother.

 

The Charmings can also STFU. Regina did all these terrible things and now they trust her. Emma tried to fix her mistake on her own and now she can't be trusted. You know, because none of these people have snuck off because they thought they were protecting their loved ones or trying to be responsible and set things right on their own. Nope, every single decision is made by committee and approved beforehand and then carried out as a group.

 

There are “Dark One Chronicles?”   Who wrote them?  And much as I love books, watching heroes reading in a library does not make for exciting TV viewing.  Thankfully that scene did not last too long.

This totally reminded me of the watcher diaries on Buffy (as did the scene of Snow, Charming, and Belle doing research in the library!).

 

All those scenes at the lake and there's been a portal to hell under it this whole time? Storybrooke is so weird.

Ha, I guess it's like the Hellmouth in Sunnydale!

 

I'm really mad at how ripped from Buffy this is. He immediately goes so far off the deep end. That wasn't killian, your lovesick puppy dog. He died. Angel without his soul after a moment of true happiness. They were careful to make the same distinction of no soul/dark one v killian the man who loves Emma. To keep his redemption arc intact so he can move on eventually because it wasn't him. It was the darkness. I've seen this before. I fear for where it's heading. This is really upsetting.

I really hope they don't go this route because they have made it clear that Gold was still responsible for the things that he did as Rumpelstiltskin. He may have been seduced by the dark side (TM Star Wars) but he was still the same person, just power hungry and full of magic. And even though Emma struggled when she became the dark one, everyone kept saying that she was still Emma. So if they try to say that Darth Killian is Angelus and therefore not responsible for his actions because he doesn't have a soul as the dark one, I will be super annoyed.

 

I am already annoyed that they have portrayed Emma as struggling with the darkness up until this episode but once Hook turned, suddenly Emma was no longer struggling with the darkness. I guess she just needed a good distraction?

 

The immortality is what's keeping him alive right now. Once it goes, he will still die from the Excalibur wound. Emma just temporarily stopped it.

Kind of like how people turned into vampires are magically no longer suffering from tuberculosis or whatever, but once they are magically turned back into humans, they begin dying from whatever mortal illness they had before they were turned into vampires (on both Buffy and the Vampire Diaries).

 

And all the leather!  Yikes, the Dark Hook/Swan duo wore a lot of leather.

I found this absolutely hilarious because in one of their serious scenes together, I could hear their leather squeaking as they moved.

[Primetimer]

We learn the dark truth of what happened in Camelot as the season's timelines come together.

Read the story

[BoPeeps]

The writers and creators continue to be incompetent and their talents wildly imbalanced but if I totally remove myself from the actual series and any logic or story-sense and just watch as a fair weather observer parts of this were quite entertaining. I expect the disjointed and illogical now.

Loved Dark Hook. Fabulous job. Great lines. You could feel the torment. When the writers give a Shit, they are capable of presenting amazing minutes of strengths in characterizations even if their timelines and continuity suck.

It doesn't mean a Damn thing if anyone else blah blah blahs all over the Internet about their anti-hookism anything. I watch for this character and enjoyed him totally.

Rumple always is superior as well. I hope he goes dark again if they even allow any darkness as we know it to remain. (Belle's heart saving moment surely was directed at the actress' pregnancy needs and she can step away for a bit while they decide how to reestablish the Imp as the Imp)

I had no problem with Henry's performance either, considering the quackery brain farts of all the characters. In fact I forgive him more than the adults for goofiness.

Thoroughly liked when the insignificant and Disney Plant Merida was summarily tossed to the floor. Pfft, get lost.

Zelena/Robin/Regina ...boorish but what else can they do with that entire flat line of an arc. However, I continue to like Regina and thought she had some very good moments.

Emma's Swan-wing hair design was ...interesting (heh), and I like that she now is fighting for her and Hooks happy ending. They deserve it.

Yeah, considering all things that normally annoy me but that I now just let slide off my back , this one was good for me

[kili]

Is Merlin the boat with the other Dark Ones? Or do I need to fanwank a reason why he isn't? The magic sucked out of him created the Dark One that summoned the other Dark Ones. He is dead. Shouldn't he be included in the mix?

 

That boat looked awfully full of people for there to be room for that fire-breathing boar. I wonder who had to stand next to him for the voyage from the Underworld.

Edited November 30, 2015 by kili

[Camera One]

So why was it built into the Curse that anyone who left Storybrooke turned into a tree?  Is that going to be explained next week?

 

Is Merlin the boat with the other Dark Ones? Or do I need to fanwank a reason why he isn't? The magic sucked out of him created the Dark One that summoned the other Dark Ones. He is dead. Shouldn't he be included in the mix?

 

LOL, I can just imagine.

 

NIMUE: And we shall rule the world!  Muahahahahahahahahahah!

MERLIN: Hey there.

NIMUE: (flies into a rage)  WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?!!!!!  HOW DID YOU GET PAST UNDERWORLD AIRPORT SECURITY!!!

MERLIN: I told you these hooded robes were a bad idea.  These aren't the other Dark Ones.  They're my friends.

MICKEY: Hi.

MINNIE: Hello

GOOFY: Helllllo.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Camera One

[AmeliaBedelia]

Loved Dark Hook. Fabulous job. Great lines. You could feel the torment. When the writers give a Shit, they are capable of presenting amazing minutes of strengths in characterizations even if their timelines and continuity suck.

 

Agreed. This is the Hook I wanted to see during the Shattered Sight spell last season. I was so disappointed when he and Emma were exempt from that (and that the whole thing was played for laughs). This show has a lot of screwed up characters. Most fairy tales are based off of some pretty dark stuff. I don't mind when the writers dip into the angst well. Would I want 10 eps of Dark Hook? Probably not. But, 2-3 eps of dark, brooding quippiness from an accented pirate is cool with me.

[Rumsy4]

So why was it built into the Curse that anyone who left Storybrooke turned into a tree? Is that going to be explained next week?

MERLIN: I told you these hooded robes were a bad idea. These aren't the other Dark Ones. They're my friends.

MICKEY: Hi.

MINNIE: Hello

GOOFY: Helllllo.

Haha. That would actually be great!!!

Edited November 30, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Delphi]

So when Belle gets back with Rumple, she's a doormat who can't stick to her guns, then when she leaves Rumple last season, it was good for her for stepping out of her abusive relationship but it's instantly bad because she still clearly has feelings for her husband. And then when decides to stay separated from him and work on herself she's morally skewed because it looks like she only loves him for his power. I really think this board won't let Belle win no matter what she does.

[mjgchick]

So when Belle gets back with Rumple, she's a doormat who can't stick to her guns, then when she leaves Rumple last season, it was good for her for stepping out of her abusive relationship but it's instantly bad because she still clearly has feelings for her husband. And then when decides to stay separated from him and work on herself she's morally skewed because it looks like she only loves him for his power. I really think this board won't let Belle win no matter what she does.

Nah I think it made Belle a stronger person when she left Rumple. Just because he says he's a better person doesn't make it OK for them to get back together. He's hurt her way to much to just get back with him just because he says he's a better person. I'm on Belles side with this one. Its the only thing I enjoyed about last nights episode. Everything else was let's dump on Emma because she likes to do things on her own. No thanks. Give me Belle breaking Rumples heart every episode over that.

[snarkybelle]

Now I know why Killian’s Dark One hair looks so sexy on him – it’s the hair he would get after sweaty, unbelievably orgasmic marathon sex with Emma.
Revenge for cutting off his hand = Rumple’s hand
Revenge for crushing Milah’s heart = Rumple’s heart
Revenge for filling Emma with darkness = Rumple’s head
Which means he still loves Emma despite what he says to Emma. 
Despite what he says, he still frees her from Merida to get the Dreamcatchers.  

I like that Belle still held off her relationship from Rumpel because it’s not fair he gets a shiny brand new heart without paying the price for his past actions. She needs to get to know him as a man, not as the Dark One. I hope they don’t punish Emma and Killian once they get the darkness out of them because of the sacrifices they made.  
Also, thoughts on Henry – if what Emma did is the worst thing that ever happened to him then good for him.  If he ever had Emma’s life, he’d be a basket case.  Emma’s family sucks.  Whenever she opens her heart, she winds up getting it crushed. She had darkness in her, she did them a favor by pushing them away.  They'd probably make her go sit in the corner if she came to them for help.
Zelena’s one liners are awesome.  Since Buffy is being mentioned so much, where’s Cordelia?  I think Zelena could fulfill the Spike/Cordelia role quite well and has done in her scenes with Regina.  Someone who could put a broader perspective on the situation, be the voice of reason/audience, who could tell these fairytale characters in a snarky, honest, yet somewhat mean way what the motivations behind their stupid actions are.  I think she'd be a great member of the Scooby gang while she breastfeeds and changes diapers.  If MM can do it, why not her?  And then Granny can babysit.  

Edited November 30, 2015 by snarkybelle

[shipperx]

There are some huge plot holes in this one. Why is Merlin leaving a voice mail over a cauldron of dark curse rather than,y'know, destroying the curse? Why was he sending the heroes to Nimue? Why, if he saw this, darkest path, did he warn no one about anything? Free will is one thing, but directing someone down a road but neglecting to mention the bridge is going to collapse if you step on it is sort of criminal negligence?

Why is Hook doing a dark curse for 'revenge' but then only causing a scratch before poofing? Why want Rumps head for harming Emma if Dark Hook hates Emma? Why release Emma so she can work to thwart him? Etc.

Huge plot holes.

They're are significant problems with the script and I think that the Dark Hook plot makes virtually no sense.

That said, I also dismiss a lot of the infantilizing Emma with 'mean words are unforgivable'. Mean words are forgivable and, honestly, they weren't that mean. There was truth to her choosing to run and to distrust. It's clumsy writing of course as clearly the lesson of the whole arc was summed up in the Guardians of the Galaxy hand hold that repelled the death eaters, I'm sorry, the 'furies'. But that's still the point the story is hammering.

I also don't have a problem with Henry. He wasn't holding Emma to a higher standard than Regina. He wasn't less forgiving. He just wasn't enabling her. As soon as he thought he wasn't enabling he was on her side. Yes, forgive. Don't help someone down their oath of self destruction. Basically, don't be Belle. So I don't actually have a problem with Henry.

I think Emma is an adult and the hero and she'll come through this just fine.

Merlin either has a master plan or he is utterly stupid or criminally negligent or both.

Baby Green Bean was hilariously cute.

I'd give this ep a C- Lots of what-the-huh??? But some good acting along the way. I also think it mostly stinks of red herring. The question is who is lugging more fish.

Edited November 30, 2015 by shipperx

[Mari]

And then when decides to stay separated from him and work on herself she's morally skewed because it looks like she only loves him for his power. I really think this board won't let Belle win no matter what she does.

Don't know about the board in general, but I found it interesting, because it seemed to confirm what I'd speculated earlier--that if Rumple didn't have power, and that hint of darkness, that a lot of Belle's motive for staying with him would be gone.  But, then, for quite a while now, I've been of the opinion that Belle didn't fall in love with Rumple--she fell in love with Dark Rumple.

 

I don't even think the show is doing it intentionally, but Belle's always seemed more invested (to me, at least) in watching Rumple be a bad, bad man and the power/ego rush she gets from being his exception and the reason he stops whatever current evil shenanigans he's up to.

 

Even the big border break-up, if you parse her speech, was her breaking up with him not because he was abusive, controlling, and evil, but because her ego was hurt he hadn't told her he'd gone back and retrieved a valuable object.

[Curio]

Meh, it's all them but it's not. If you think of dark magic as an addiction it makes sense to me. People don't act like themselves when they are addicted to something. So it's them, but it's often...someone else.

 

This is the only way I can interpret it, too. The best way I can think of the Dark Ones/darkness and how it has affected Emma, Hook, and Rumple so differently is to compare it to the different stages of consuming alcohol.

 

• Emma: Emma has basically been "buzzed drunk" on darkness this entire time. She took a shot and it hit her hard during the premiere episode because she initially wanted to crush Merida's heart, but ever since then, she's been at that stage where the alcohol/darkness isn't really affecting her too much. She's still 90% in complete control of her actions, can filter her sentences, and not say anything too stupid. Even though she feels good enough, she probably shouldn't drive a car, but she's also not super drunk off the darkness to the point where she wakes up with a huge hangover and can't remember the night before. She's like the big college jock who can slam a beer and not feel anything. The way I see it, because Emma's parents did her a "favor" and removed a bunch of darkness from her before she was born, she has built up a natural tolerance to the darkness. Emma is also an innately good person and The Savior, which is why she's been able to fight off the darkness so much better than Hook and Rumple.
• Hook: Hook is "black-out drunk" at this point. Opposite of Emma's jock tolerance, Hook is the lightweight who gets drunk off of half a beer. And what's worse, he didn't even get to choose to be black-out drunk. He's the kid at the party who was physically forced to take 20 shots as some cruel joke, and now he's completely wasted, not acting like himself, and 99% not in control of his actions. He'll wake up in the morning completely hungover, feel like death, might need to get his stomach pumped, and not remember what he did the night before. Some girl will come up to him the next day, slap him on the face for calling her a total bitch, and he'll be sitting there thinking, "Did I actually say that? Why would I say that to her face? And why do I have a receipt for $2,000 worth of onion rings?" Yes, you're still "you" when you're drunk, but when someone is black-out drunk, there are absolutely no filters. This stage of drunkenness/darkness thrives off of the id and that's why Hook was able to be cruel to Emma, because it was technically coming from a place of truth. His comments come from the deepest, darkest corners of his subconscious that he's normally able to filter out or not even register when he's normal and sober, but when he has 20 shots (more like bottles) of darkness in his system, there's no holding back. Also, Hook has battled with the darkness for centuries, so he knows what it's like to dip into that feeling and become a villain again. So not only is he the person who was forced to take 20 shots at a party, he's the person who just recently worked to overcome an alcohol addiction, was sober for a year or two, and has fallen back into those tendencies. 
• Rumple: Rumple is like that old, grumpy grandpa at the bar who sits at the counter every day, occasionally makes terrible comments, and causes a scene during bar close. He wasn't always like this, but after decades of continuous drinking, the alcohol/darkness is just a part of his personality now. He's at the point where he doesn't even care to get sober, he just wants to keep drinking. So in a way, Rumple has also built up a tolerance to the darkness based on the fact that he's lived with it for so long. He probably used to do some of the crazy black-out drunk acts Hook has done in his early stages of being the Dark One, but he's old now and completely over the binge drinking/animal house/party days of his youthful Dark One-ness. Now, he just wants to continue drinking his normal amount of darkness at the bar every day, and sometimes, he'll go outside to beat someone up if they get on his nerves. He's not as in control of his actions as Emma is, but he definitely has a much higher tolerance than Hook who has nearly no control of his actions at this point. Rumple was probably in control of 70-80% of his Dark One actions compared to Hook who has like 1% control.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Curio

[toodles]

Merlin is Dumbledore, Hook is Snape (no no no!), and they had to have him (HP spoiler alert) kill Merlin to infiltrate the Death Eaters so they could gain control of Hogwarts, I mean, Storybrooke. Emma (Harry) had to witness this so she'd think he'd gone really dark.

 

You will pry this Hook is tricking the darkness belief from my cold dead hands, A&E! Or until it blows up in my face next Sunday.

The not the pensive! Restores the memories and the not dementors will come and take them away? The not the dark Lord is all dark lords rolled in to one. Huh. This show has completely lost me. What happened to the fairy tales? I liked this show in the beginning but it really took a wrong turn. Why are the charmings even on anymore? Neverland was bad, but this is the worst. I think this is it for me.

[DeLurker]

I would have thought David would have been a little more upset his bromance buddy was now Darth Hook.

[Mari]

That would require David being allowed to have a reaction Snow hasn't approved, or have a conversation with someone who isn't Snow or a random guest star.

[Rumsy4]

Was there any explanation why Lancelot disappeared after the first scene?

[Mathius]

One admittedly good twist I liked: Charon was Nimue all along.  

 

That makes sense: her doing this job just biding her time patiently until the day where she can finally cross onto shore.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Mathius

[InsertWordHere]

Was there any explanation why Lancelot disappeared after the first scene?

He went to talk to his mother, the Lady of the Lake, who I know is his mother in the legend, but the show has never before mentioned that she's his mother or how she could possibly help. So they're relying on the audience's knowledge of the same legend they have deconstructed. Fail. 

[mjgchick]

Didn't they mention her as his mother when he basically help Snow into having children again? I thought the water he made Snow drink was from Lady of the Lake?

[KingOfHearts]

Isn't Nimue traditionally the Lady of the Lake?

[Dianthus]

Is it possible that Lance will show up in SB, with his mother's help? Would she have any knowledge of/connection to the pond portal?