General Gabbery: DWTS

[lavenderblue]

6 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

Tessa should be a contestant on dwts. Her dancing would be lovely!

I've thought she would be exquisite with Artem!

[Andie1]

19 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

There's a blog post from the person behind the skating website Two for the Ice that touches on some of the explicit Latin ballroom choreography references Virtue/Moir make in that program!: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Syllabus

I think the commentator above is Ben Agosto who's doing some work for the network, too -- for any non-ice dance fans, he skated (to considerable success) with Tanith Belbin, AKA Charlie's now-wife. US ice dance is a small world.

Thanks for this!  So it's Tanith's partner not her hubby!

1 hour ago, lavenderblue said:

I've thought she would be exquisite with Artem!

Now we're talking!  I still have withdrawals from his season with Kara Tointon.  I just love Tessa, she's such a great dancer.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

Just wondering, is anyone planning to watch the junior version in the spring? I don't see people lining up to watch it and fear it may be the beginning of the end for dwts :-(

[crowceilidh]

I think I'll be glad for the break from DWTS.  I watched the kid version of SYTYCD and wasn't particularly let down, but I'm just NOT one of those people who thinks kids are cute. by virtue of being kids.  And tediously, the kid version of SYTYCD did think so.  And I suspect so will DWTS.

[calipiano81]

I plan on watching. I am also not a person who fawns over kids doing anything and everything, but I also don't prejudice against them if they are legitimately talented.

I loved SYTYCD: Next Generation. The kids IMO were great dancers, regardless of their age, with amazing skills. They were all great performers as well.

Even though DWTS Juniors will be dealing with kids learning to dance, I think kids are much faster learners than adults and have less hang-ups, so we might be surprised at the results.

[Toonces464]

44 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Just wondering, is anyone planning to watch the junior version in the spring? I don't see people lining up to watch it and fear it may be the beginning of the end for dwts :-(

No interest whatsoever.

[majormama]

I'm sure my kids will want to watch it, and will likely be heavily invested. They always are with the younger contestants on the regular version. (We had four full blown sobbing breakdowns when Willow Shields was eliminated.)

[boyznkatz]

Interesting. Maybe their target audience is children? I don't see many adults watching it.

[realdancemom]

I might watch the first few shows just to see how it is.  I enjoyed the junior version of SYTYCD more than I thought I would.  I'm glad that they went back to an adult version though.  OTOH, the SYTYCD juniors were cross trained.  That won't necessarily be the case for DWTS juniors.

[jjjmoss]

On paper Jordan seemed like the obvious winner, with Lindsay being 3rd/4th/3rd/2nd in the last 4 seasons. Plus he was in musicals.

Though Sharna previously had an even better streak with 3rd/2nd/4th/2nd. Wonder if they'll push her to a win before the decade ends. 

[00redsvt]

3 hours ago, jjjmoss said:

On paper Jordan seemed like the obvious winner, with Lindsay being 3rd/4th/3rd/2nd in the last 4 seasons. Plus he was in musicals.

Though Sharna previously had an even better streak with 3rd/2nd/4th/2nd. Wonder if they'll push her to a win before the decade ends. 

I'm sorry, but I hope not. She has just rubbed me wrong for the past few seasons and I can't quite put my finger on why. She did seem a tad bit more like able this season as opposed to seasons passed, but not by much. 

[Toonces464]

5 hours ago, 00redsvt said:

I'm sorry, but I hope not. She has just rubbed me wrong for the past few seasons and I can't quite put my finger on why. She did seem a tad bit more like able this season as opposed to seasons passed, but not by much. 

I run so hot and cold with Sharna. I think the problem is there are definitive "leading men" in that one or more of Val, Maks, Mark and/or Derek are on every season, but with the women you really don't have that unless Cheryl or Karina come back.

[BuckeyeLou]

I was disappointed with GMA this morning....in the "old" days, the winner & runners-up got to dance & perform and it was fun to watch(often it was outside, if the weather was nice),  this morning it was more about 98 Degrees & Nick Lachey singing & the DWTS folks dancing to 98 degrees music.  Mark Ballas seemed very subdued.  But it was nice that Lindsay Arnold thanked Mark for being her teacher. 

[Toonces464]

Val and Sasha particularly don't like each other and are always managing to get in passive aggressive digs at the other but I don't really know why.  Val & Emma used to be close but don't seem to be anymore so maybe it has something to do with that.  There are a couple pros like Lindsay and Sharna that seem to have a foot in both worlds, though Lindsay doesn't really hang out with the fam pros much on her off time, so much as they at least seem to respect her and her work.  I don't think the same holds true for Witney for instance.

I was also stunned to see Maks and Val post about Lindsey last night. I don't think either of them have ever posted outside the fam wins. But my first thought was that it really wasn't about her winning as much as Mark not winning. I know Val and Mark are close but I also remember many times that Maks and Val both took passive aggressive digs at him.

I think the Val/Sasha thing stems from the period of time Emma and Sasha were broken up but still living together. As soon as that happened and Emma joined Sway I got the feeling she and Val had a thing going on. When it didn't seem to pan out, she got back with Sasha. I also thought that was why Sharna broke things off with Paul, because she and Val had hooked up and she and her BFF Peta were going to become sisters with the two brothers. That didn't pan out either and I've also noticed she seems to spend more time with other pros than with the fam. She seems particularly close to Mark.

Keo has been spending a lot of time with Maks and Peta lately so I guess he's the latest to defect to the fam. With Sharna and Tony not around them much anymore, it feels like there's a revolving door among the pros lately as to who's part of the codependency circle, doesn't it? A few months ago, it was Alan. 

[spanana]

1 hour ago, Toonces464 said:

I was also stunned to see Maks and Val post about Lindsey last night. I don't think either of them have ever posted outside the fam wins. But my first thought was that it really wasn't about her winning as much as Mark not winning. I know Val and Mark are close but I also remember many times that Maks and Val both took passive aggressive digs at him.

I think the Val/Sasha thing stems from the period of time Emma and Sasha were broken up but still living together. As soon as that happened and Emma joined Sway I got the feeling she and Val had a thing going on. When it didn't seem to pan out, she got back with Sasha. I also thought that was why Sharna broke things off with Paul, because she and Val had hooked up and she and her BFF Peta were going to become sisters with the two brothers. That didn't pan out either and I've also noticed she seems to spend more time with other pros than with the fam. She seems particularly close to Mark.

Keo has been spending a lot of time with Maks and Peta lately so I guess he's the latest to defect to the fam. With Sharna and Tony not around them much anymore, it feels like there's a revolving door among the pros lately as to who's part of the codependency circle, doesn't it? A few months ago, it was Alan. 

You might be right on Val and Emma.  There was a point pre one of the first tours when they asked Val in an interview who he was going to hang out with on tour and the only pro he would continually name as hang out worthy was Emma and he talked about how close they were. However, as said, this was likely when she wasn't with Sasha.

There are some pros that I've noticed shift between the "sides".  Sharna and Peta are still close but Sharna doesn't hang out with the other fam people as much as she used to, but maybe that is also a function of babies and such.  Artem also used to be considered fam and was part of Sway and all that, but he hangs out more with Emma/Sasha now.  Keo and Alan kind of can go either way.  If anything, last season they both clung to Rashad more than anyone, and of course he was attached to Emma.

Lindsay IMO is that rare pro who I just think is so gosh darn nice that she gets along with everyone.  I guess her main current connection to Val is that Jenna counts Lindsay as a "bestie" though that seems like more a function of growing up together than current closeness.  Jenna rarely hangs out with any of the Utah girls personally, or so it seems, anymore.  She's usually trying to latch on to Peta or Sharna when not with Val.

Though it could also just be a condition of no fam pros being in the finale.  It's hard for Val & Maks to be bitter about a finale they aren't in, whereas last season I think Val was re: Normani.

Also I thought it was interesting how few pros attended Maks/Peta's big nuptials.  From DWTS, Sharna and Rumer were bridesmaids.  I assume Tony was a groomsman, but besides that there were slim pickings in terms of what pros showed up.  Kym/Robert were there.  Jenna was obviously there as Val's date.  I feel like Alan might have been there, but that was it.  However Julianne got married the same weekend so Emma/Sasha and Mark were there.  Also while Peta's past celebs attended, I don't think any of Maks partners showed, though I don't know who he invited.  Candace Cameron was weirdly there.

Edited November 22, 2017 by spanana

[00redsvt]

1 hour ago, Toonces464 said:

 

I think the Val/Sasha thing stems from the period of time Emma and Sasha were broken up but still living together. As soon as that happened and Emma joined Sway I got the feeling she and Val had a thing going on. When it didn't seem to pan out, she got back with Sasha. I also thought that was why Sharna broke things off with Paul, because she and Val had hooked up and she and her BFF Peta were going to become sisters with the two brothers. That didn't pan out either and I've also noticed she seems to spend more time with other pros than with the fam. She seems particularly close to Mark.

 

There is a video from a recent DWTS tour (not Sway), Emma, Val and Sasha all 3 were doing the tour. It's the closing number and Emma and Val are dancing together. Val whispers something in her ear and if looks could kill, Sasha would've obliterated Val. I wish I could find it again but it's one of those things I found by getting stuck in a hole on YT. Holy cow, lol. 

[penbrat]

I am so hoping that for this shortened season that we see neither C brother.   I would not mind if Tony  came back.  He is really the only one of the "fam" I can deal with.

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

There are some pros that I've noticed shift between the "sides".  Sharna and Peta are still close but Sharna doesn't hang out with the other fam people as much as she used to, but maybe that is also a function of babies and such.  Artem also used to be considered fam and was part of Sway and all that, but he hangs out more with Emma/Sasha now.  Keo and Alan kind of can go either way.  If anything, last season they both clung to Rashad more than anyone, and of course he was attached to Emma.

Sharna spent a brief time hanging out with Maks, Val and Peta last year after the fall season ended and then I never saw her hang out with them again. I know she stopped by the house in NJ on Christmas Eve but she spent Christmas in NYC with Mark and Shirley. I think there was a falling out with Artem because he stopped following Maks, Val and Peta on social media right after the last Sway in NYC. I remember he and Henry spent one off-season pretty much living and traveling with the wife of Maks's doctor but I don't see any of them bother too much with her anymore.

1 hour ago, spanana said:

Lindsay IMO is that rare pro who I just think is so gosh darn nice that she gets along with everyone.  I guess her main current connection to Val is that Jenna counts Lindsay as a "bestie" though that seems like more a function of growing up together than current closeness.  Jenna rarely hangs out with any of the Utah girls personally, or so it seems, anymore.  She's usually trying to latch on to Peta or Sharna when not with Val.

Remember after Season 18 Jenna went on that trip to Hawaii with Meryl? I always thought she was using her because she bought into the showmance and thought clinging to Meryl would be her in with Val.

1 hour ago, spanana said:

Also I thought it was interesting how few pros attended Maks/Peta's big nuptials.  From DWTS, Sharna and Rumer were bridesmaids.  I assume Tony was a groomsman, but besides that there were slim pickings in terms of what pros showed up.  Kym/Robert were there.  Jenna was obviously there as Val's date.  I feel like Alan might have been there, but that was it.  However Julianne got married the same weekend so Emma/Sasha and Mark were there.  Also while Peta's past celebs attended, I don't think any of Maks partners showed, though I don't know who he invited.  Candace Cameron was weirdly there.

That reminded me of that ridiculous birthday party the fam threw for him a few years back. He said it was to bring his east and west coast families together in one place and the only ones who showed up were Erin, Kirstie and Chelsie Hightower. I think Nyle was the only one of Peta's former partners to attend but no, Maks had no one (although apparently Amber Rose was invited and planned on going, then bailed). What was weird, if you follow her on social media, Erin was glued to Instagram that night liking all the wedding pictures immediately as they were posted. I found that so odd because I thought if any of his past partners would be there it would be her. But since he wasn't at her wedding a few weeks earlier, I assume their past fling made them both decide to stay away since they do still seem close.

 

1 hour ago, penbrat said:

I am so hoping that for this shortened season that we see neither C brother.   I would not mind if Tony  came back.  He is really the only one of the "fam" I can deal with.

I love Tony! I met him and Maks at a dance studio a few years back and he's such a nice guy and so much better looking in person!

[spanana]

Toonces464, I'm not sure if you mean who was at Maks/Peta wedding versus that ridiculous birthday party, but I think Donald Driver was at the wedding.  So Peta did have some representation from her former partners.

As for Jenna, Jenna has a habit of trying to latch on to people and then calling them her bestie five seconds after meeting them to the point that it's almost comical.  She usually tries to latch on to someone that in the case of Meryl, could get her an in with Val and the fam, or people that she thinks can get her a leg up career wise.  I have to give that woman credit that she's a hustler in that sense.  Meryl was her best friend.  She also tried latching on to Rumer and I think they must have had some sort of falling out at some point.  She tends to do it with Val's partners, though interestingly I noticed that Victoria never seemed to bite.  Jenna also tries to grab on to the people that she knows have a big social media following- Normani, Hayes Greer, Laurie, Riker, etc.  I think she briefly tried it with Zendaya, but she backs off when she doesn't get the response she wants obviously.  I fully expect her to move on to Jordan on tour.

My favorite on Jenna was several years ago when she was trying to get in with Peta & Sharna she used to always refer to them on social media as her "Scissor Sisters" as I guess it was part of some inside joke.  She would write it so often that eventually fans had to prompt Jenna to look it up because I guarantee her Mormon self had no idea what that meant.  Then she suddenly stopped using it.

Interesting on Artem.  I didn't know something potentially went down. I just noticed that he became a staple with the Emma/Sasha crew.  Artem in general seems a bit of a loner. I noticed often on tours, he tends to go off by himself when everyone else is hanging out.

Oh, to be a fly on a wall.  I also still want to know what entirely went down with Mark & Witney that they still can barely even look at each other.  Especially considering they are both married now.  If you want to see awkward, watch the forced hug/interaction between Mark & Witney after Frankie's elimination.

[howmanywords]

I can't remember the last time I saw SO many pros congratulate a new winner and emphasize how deserving they are. Just Jared has an article gathering all the various tweets. Lindsey is REALLY loved amongst her fellow pros. I was particularly shocked by how glowing Maks and Val's words were.

[Toonces464]

16 minutes ago, spanana said:

Toonces464, I'm not sure if you mean who was at Maks/Peta wedding versus that ridiculous birthday party, but I think Donald Driver was at the wedding.  So Peta did have some representation from her former partners.

You're right, Donald was there. I forgot about him.

17 minutes ago, spanana said:

As for Jenna, Jenna has a habit of trying to latch on to people and then calling them her bestie five seconds after meeting them to the point that it's almost comical.  She usually tries to latch on to someone that in the case of Meryl, could get her an in with Val and the fam, or people that she thinks can get her a leg up career wise.  I have to give that woman credit that she's a hustler in that sense.  Meryl was her best friend.  She also tried latching on to Rumer and I think they must have had some sort of falling out at some point.  She tends to do it with Val's partners, though interestingly I noticed that Victoria never seemed to bite.  Jenna also tries to grab on to the people that she knows have a big social media following- Normani, Hayes Greer, Laurie, Riker, etc.  I think she briefly tried it with Zendaya, but she backs off when she doesn't get the response she wants obviously.  I fully expect her to move on to Jordan on tour.

Personally I'm shocked she's doing the tour without Val, especially since it seems Maks and Val are gearing up to take their show on the road again. I still laugh at that trip to Hawaii which was so random.

18 minutes ago, spanana said:

My favorite on Jenna was several years ago when she was trying to get in with Peta & Sharna she used to always refer to them on social media as her "Scissor Sisters" as I guess it was part of some inside joke.  She would write it so often that eventually fans had to prompt Jenna to look it up because I guarantee her Mormon self had no idea what that meant.  Then she suddenly stopped using it.

Yes, I remember that! I was like WTF is she even talking about? But Peta was saying it too. Honestly, of all the female pros, these are probably two of the biggest nobodies without the brothers.

19 minutes ago, spanana said:

Interesting on Artem.  I didn't know something potentially went down. I just noticed that he became a staple with the Emma/Sasha crew.  Artem in general seems a bit of a loner. I noticed often on tours, he tends to go off by himself when everyone else is hanging out.

I thought it was so weird that after Sway, he and Henry went home with the Seeds family and started popping up in their house and on their family vacations. Then when they both left to do the DWTS cruise, she went with them. Right now Artem seems pretty tight with Gleb.

 

19 minutes ago, spanana said:

Oh, to be a fly on a wall.  I also still want to know what entirely went down with Mark & Witney that they still can barely even look at each other.  Especially considering they are both married now.  If you want to see awkward, watch the forced hug/interaction between Mark & Witney after Frankie's elimination.

I did watch for that and it was so uncomfortable to watch. I can't even begin to imagine how many of these pros have slept with each other, probably at the same time!

[tessaforever]

9 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

I run so hot and cold with Sharna. I think the problem is there are definitive "leading men" in that one or more of Val, Maks, Mark and/or Derek are on every season, but with the women you really don't have that unless Cheryl or Karina come back.

I like Sharna. I think she's done a great job with some of her celebs - Hinch of course, and others (some, like Bonner, are past helping). It's funny, but I base my opinions on such tiny, random things. Remember the beautiful dance to My Heart Will Go On a few seasons ago? Sharna danced with Maks, and at one point, she takes his hand and gives a really cute smile. Since I don't follow her on social media, I guess I like Sharna pretty much for that smile! 

4 hours ago, spanana said:

You might be right on Val and Emma.  There was a point pre one of the first tours when they asked Val in an interview who he was going to hang out with on tour and the only pro he would continually name as hang out worthy was Emma and he talked about how close they were. However, as said, this was likely when she wasn't with Sasha.

There are some pros that I've noticed shift between the "sides".  Sharna and Peta are still close but Sharna doesn't hang out with the other fam people as much as she used to, but maybe that is also a function of babies and such.  Artem also used to be considered fam and was part of Sway and all that, but he hangs out more with Emma/Sasha now.  Keo and Alan kind of can go either way.  If anything, last season they both clung to Rashad more than anyone, and of course he was attached to Emma.

Lindsay IMO is that rare pro who I just think is so gosh darn nice that she gets along with everyone.  I guess her main current connection to Val is that Jenna counts Lindsay as a "bestie" though that seems like more a function of growing up together than current closeness.  Jenna rarely hangs out with any of the Utah girls personally, or so it seems, anymore.  She's usually trying to latch on to Peta or Sharna when not with Val.

Though it could also just be a condition of no fam pros being in the finale.  It's hard for Val & Maks to be bitter about a finale they aren't in, whereas last season I think Val was re: Normani.

Also I thought it was interesting how few pros attended Maks/Peta's big nuptials.  From DWTS, Sharna and Rumer were bridesmaids.  I assume Tony was a groomsman, but besides that there were slim pickings in terms of what pros showed up.  Kym/Robert were there.  Jenna was obviously there as Val's date.  I feel like Alan might have been there, but that was it.  However Julianne got married the same weekend so Emma/Sasha and Mark were there.  Also while Peta's past celebs attended, I don't think any of Maks partners showed, though I don't know who he invited.  Candace Cameron was weirdly there.

I was really surprised to see Jenna call Lindsay her bestie! When did that happen?? I thought Witney and Lindsay were besties. Not that you can't have more than one! If so, that would be a strong connection between the C bros fam and the Utah bunch. 

4 hours ago, penbrat said:

I am so hoping that for this shortened season that we see neither C brother.   I would not mind if Tony  came back.  He is really the only one of the "fam" I can deal with.

What a nice guy. Tony is a great example (Keo also) of male pros getting one terrible celeb after another. That is certainly not something that only the women pros deal with!

2 hours ago, spanana said:

Interesting on Artem.  I didn't know something potentially went down. I just noticed that he became a staple with the Emma/Sasha crew.  Artem in general seems a bit of a loner. I noticed often on tours, he tends to go off by himself when everyone else is hanging out.

Oh, to be a fly on a wall.  I also still want to know what entirely went down with Mark & Witney that they still can barely even look at each other.  Especially considering they are both married now.  If you want to see awkward, watch the forced hug/interaction between Mark & Witney after Frankie's elimination.

I notice that Artem and Jenna dance together a lot (over the years) - now Jenna is usually with Val. But Jenna and Artem were always together before V & J hooked up again. I often wonder how much say the celebs get in who they dance with in group numbers. It must be frequently up to them, as Emma/Sasha, Maks/Peta, and now Jenna/Val are always together. 

[spanana]

47 minutes ago, tessaforever said:

I was really surprised to see Jenna call Lindsay her bestie! When did that happen?? I thought Witney and Lindsay were besties. Not that you can't have more than one! If so, that would be a strong connection between the C bros fam and the Utah bunch. 

I notice that Artem and Jenna dance together a lot (over the years) - now Jenna is usually with Val. But Jenna and Artem were always together before V & J hooked up again. I often wonder how much say the celebs get in who they dance with in group numbers. It must be frequently up to them, as Emma/Sasha, Maks/Peta, and now Jenna/Val are always together. 

Jenna and Lindsay are besties in the sense that they grew up together along with Witney and Brittany Cherry and have known each other and danced together since they were small children.  So Jenna isn't lying in that sense. Jenna was in both Witney and Lindsay's weddings. But I think it's a current friendship born out of their childhood friendship and less a condition of how much they hang out now. So they're definitely friends and she's closer to Lindsay than she is to Witney, but I think best friends is likely a stretch.  I think Lindsay and Witney are a lot closer to each other and honestly Lindsay seems to hang out more with both Emma and Sharna away from set than she does Jenna.  But I also think a lot of that is Jenna seems like the type that gets wrapped up in her relationships so when she's with Val she's all fam all the time.  

As for Sharna, I like her most of the time.  I didn't like her with Bonner and I didn't like what he brought out her and the weird forced showmance, but I think she normally does a pretty good job with her celebs.  She was obviously great with James and I think she did as good of a job with Derek as anyone else would have done.  I think she also did as well with Noah as anyone else would have done.  My one thing with Sharna is I think she needs to relax a bit.  She wants that mirrorball so bad that I think she sometimes teeters on the edge of desperation for it (as some of our male pros before her have done).  Nothing wrong with wanting it, but I don't think she's helping her cause in getting there.

If any of our current female pros take a break, I think I want it to be Peta.  I don't dislike Peta at all.  Unlike Maks, I don't think her problem is lack of effort.  But I just feel like she's creatively tapped out and she's not bring much excitement to the table.  Though to be fair to her, Nick wasn't a good dancer so she had limited places to take him this season.

Witney is also incredibly inconsistent.  This was her best season since Alfonso and she choreographed some great routines, with help or otherwise.  Some of her routines with Frankie were so spot on and incredibly clever, but then other times her judgment is off.  But she has flashes of amazingness that make me want to see more from her.

[Emily-D]

Alan is the absolute worst for attaching himself with celebs that have huge social media followings. Go and look at his Instagram. About 9 of his last 10 pictures are with young girls that have huge social media followings. He took a picture a day with Hayes Grier back when he was on the show and ditto Normani last season. 

[spanana]

5 minutes ago, Emily-D said:

Alan is the absolute worst for attaching himself with celebs that have huge social media followings. Go and look at his Instagram. About 9 of his last 10 pictures are with young girls that have huge social media followings. He took a picture a day with Hayes Grier back when he was on the show and ditto Normani last season. 

I used to think Jenna and Alan were basically the same person in that sense, with the same sense of immature neediness.  Though Alan has grown on me the last few seasons. I know Debbie didn't last long, but that was no fault of his own, and I thought he did a good job being very attentive to a celeb that was needy in her own way.  He's kind of immature on his own, but I think he has the potential to be a good celeb partner.  Jenna to be fair it's hard to say since she only had one shot and was out first. 

[truthaboutluv]

So looks like DWTS Juniors may not be entirely dead. I read Cheryl's blog for US Weekly that she's been doing all season and she mentioned being interested in being a judge on that season if it happens. Doesn't seem like a done deal but she mentioned it being discussed for summer, which makes sense. Most shows are on hiatus anyway, the ratings fight isn't as competitive and most people are looking for lighter shows, like a reality show, in the summer.

Edited November 23, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Uke]

Crowceilidh said: 

I didn't think the outcome was at all predictable.  There were many factors mitigating against all three finalists and many for.  I think the show is manipulative enough to down Frankie 2 points (c'mon, when do they do that in the finale?) because they were worried enough that he might be able to take it in that final vote, but I don't think they can call the winner.  It's just not legal.

 

IMO TPTB are completely free to choose the winner despite what the votes/scores would otherwise call for.  I'm pretty sure DWTS is not a "game show" and therefore not subject to game show rules.  Participants are paid a weekly salary for their time and effort in accordance to their contract.  They are not competing for a prize.   The only "prize" is what many refer to as a cheap, tacky, ugly (choose your own descriptors) mirrorball trophy made from lamp parts.  (Though I read that the original lamp base is no longer being made, so they've had to improvise.)  I think it's valued at around $10.  It's purposely kept at a nominal value so as not to be considered something worth competing for*.  Since it's not a game show, there is no requirement to ensure fairness to all competitors in their effort to win, examples: not everyone gets a positive package, not everyone gets a negative package, not everyone has to dance 1st or gets to dance last, etc.  Even with PR, production controls who gets interviews on ET, Access Hollywood, KTLA, etc.  Production can give some contestants loads of interviews, other contestants few or none.  As we've seen, production is free to manipulate to their hearts content, examples:  slicing and dicing a contestant's words to imply something that was never said or meant (the Nastia "no" video), revving the audience up to cheer loudly for one contestant but not another (which sounds deafening through the tv), getting only one contestant to say "I'm the best" or "I have no competition" and then airing it to make the contestant appear arrogant (Tamar).  These are things that are tightly controlled on game shows but not applicable to a reality competition show with no ending prize.

Also if you remember, during the seasons that had switch weeks, viewers were to vote via twitter to supposedly decide who would switch with who.  Apparently TPTB didn't realize that we, the fans, had the ability to monitor the tweets and strategize to force a certain switch lineup and then we knew with certainty when the show did the switchups with different people.  The first time, twitter analysis was questioned as to whether we were using the correct parameters.  By the next season's switch week, we all had the parameters figured out.  I believe that's why the switch week was stopped.  It wasn't worth the social media hits to reveal that production would do whatever it wanted despite the twitter votes.  That's also something a game show wouldn't be able to mess with.

(*Of course the intangible "prize" of winning is bragging rights, pride in the accomplishment, etc.  This cheap, tacky, ugly MBT means the world to the winner.  But there is no monetary value or any benefit that can be monetized)

[boyznkatz]

I am going to believe they manipulate until they actually release the vote numbers. IMO Drew was the one getting the most votes and if he could dance at all he would have won. I think they threw him under the bus so they could get Frankie in third for more publicity for their tour. Every other spectacle that involves fan votes releases the numbers, but they don't.

[Uke]

5 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I am going to believe they manipulate until they actually release the vote numbers. IMO Drew was the one getting the most votes and if he could dance at all he would have won. I think they threw him under the bus so they could get Frankie in third for more publicity for their tour. Every other spectacle that involves fan votes releases the numbers, but they don't.

Yep - and not just Drew and not just this season.  And to be clear, they don't have to manipulate the votes, they can just choose to disregard them.

[spanana]

25 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I am going to believe they manipulate until they actually release the vote numbers. IMO Drew was the one getting the most votes and if he could dance at all he would have won. I think they threw him under the bus so they could get Frankie in third for more publicity for their tour. Every other spectacle that involves fan votes releases the numbers, but they don't.

That's not entirely true.  Many reality shows don't release vote numbers.  Like American Idol used to give some vague mumbo jumbo about how many votes were cast in order to show their popularity, but they certainly don't release how close the votes were or who got what.  Maybe once in a blue moon if the vote was super close but IMO the only votes most shows reveal is how many overall were cast supposedly, which shows nothing.

[boyznkatz]

I was more talking about legitimate voting venues like sports all-star games. I never bother voting in reality shows because the producers just do what they want anyway.

[calipiano81]

I don't believe the show falsifies the actual vote counts. There wouldn't be so much obvious manipulation week to week if all they needed to do was ignore or change the numbers.

No, I think they use everything at their disposal to influence the audience, but the voting results are real.

[crowceilidh]

I dunno why, but I always imagine the manipulations as a game they're playing to keep themselves entertained (like when I used to be in commuter traffic every day, I spent amazeballs amounts of time tracking the patterns to the best route home by memorizing license plates and etc and watching the traffic flow and experimenting daily with the options I had) - I don't think they are really overly concerned with who wins (Alfonso being a clear exception because of product tie-in - but they would have been almost as happy if he came in 2nd), but that the game of trying to influence audience voting is a useful game that they enjoy playing that teaches them lots of useable (sinister) stuff about people and product.

[Morrigan]

My guess is they think this show will survive or die based on their popular male pros (Derek first and foremost, Mark always an after-thought much to his chagrin, and the blasted family - starting with Maks, the sexy bad boy of season 2 or whenever his wretched presence occurred, and his less attractive but better-skilled and somewhat better-tempered little bro.) So they prop the friggin' hell out of Derek's partners -- and also the other three's to a lesser extent, thinking they're all that matters. Women voters - who are practically the only voters - will get male celebs to the trophy often enough; but to have female winners, they need their exalted male pros, who also happen to be flashy choreographers - well, Derek and Mark anyway.

Something like that. I mean, 5 trophies to one guy?!?  In any other country - the tall-poppy syndrome would have cut him down long ago, but not in our megalomaniac-lovin' country - which is why I hate this show now and why I 'think' the ratings are sinking. It was too narrow a focus, wearing everybody down with these ego cases. So I'm glad Mark didn't win - he's never had a duffer and still is aggravated he didn't get guided to the trophy with his latest ringer. Hope he's gone for good. Kinda hope the show is. It's tainted with teachers-pettism.

[truthaboutluv]

17 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

which is why I hate this show now and why I 'think' the ratings are sinking.

Or the show has been on since 2004 and no matter how much producers do to try and keep things interesting, it's still the same damn formula every season and people's attention wane and change. The television landscape has changed drastically since DWTS first premiered - see streaming and DVR. So it is inconceivable to me that anyone thinks the show's ratings would somehow still remain what it was years ago.

But sure, it's all the fault of Derek and his many wins (by the way it's six, not five). Never mind that he's been gone for a year (and no, unlike Maks, he didn't pop up when he wasn't on the season, he's actually really been gone) and is likely to not be back next season as well since he's filming season two of that dance show he's judging. Same as Mark being gone for a whole year.

 And really, Mark has never had a weak celebrity? Really - the guy who got stuck with whiny, lazy and annoying Bristol Palin twice? 

Edited November 24, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[crossover]

52 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

Something like that. I mean, 5 trophies to one guy?!?  In any other country - the tall-poppy syndrome would have cut him down long ago, but not in our megalomaniac-lovin' country - which is why I hate this show now and why I 'think' the ratings are sinking. It was too narrow a focus, wearing everybody down with these ego cases. So I'm glad Mark didn't win - he's never had a duffer and still is aggravated he didn't get guided to the trophy with his latest ringer. Hope he's gone for good. Kinda hope the show is. It's tainted with teachers-pettism.

Surely you don't believe the bold text.  But someone will bite.

I think there are a number of reasons why ratings are sinking--DVR and streaming are the main ones.  People are also worried about the NFL games.  So obviously the ratings are down in most cases.  In today's world, there are just more ways to enjoy TV programs.

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, crossover said:

I think there are a number of reasons why ratings are sinking--DVR and streaming are the main ones.  People are also worried about the NFL games.  So obviously the ratings are down in most cases.  In today's world, there are just more ways to enjoy TV programs.

I also think it's a lack of compelling pros. Back in the early days of the show the pros were so much fun to watch because they were all champions and all so well trained in ballroom dancing. Now you've got a herd of blonde lookalikes who don't seem to do anything but get up there and gyrate and a bunch of guys trying desperately to be the old Maks (put your shirts on, Alan and Gleb). And the damn troupe, who seem to build fan bases based on responding to people on Twitter who carry on about them becoming pros. 

[crossover]

14 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I also think it's a lack of compelling pros. Back in the early days of the show the pros were so much fun to watch because they were all champions and all so well trained in ballroom dancing.

You maybe right but the ballroom challenge on PBS never got the viewer support, even in olden days.  All the dancers are well trained in ballroom.

Edited November 24, 2017 by crossover

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, crossover said:

You maybe right but the ballroom challenge on PBS never got the viewer support, even in olden days.  All the dancers are well trained in ballroom.

They don't dance with celebs.

[calipiano81]

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And really, Mark has never had a weak celebrity? Really - the guy who got stuck with whiny, lazy and annoying Bristol Palin twice? 

Also, Kim Kardashian (although if she were on the show now instead of back then, she might last longer due to her much greater name recognition these days)

and Candace Cameron Bure -- She and Mark had a good relationship, but her performance anxiety was a challenge.

Mark also has had a number of middling celebs like Melissa Joan Hart, Shannen Doherty (a first elimination out), and Kristin Cavallari.

He's had ringers, for sure, but I think overall he has had a balance of celebs. 

[crossover]

35 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

They don't dance with celebs.

 

35 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

They don't dance with celebs.

OK.  I was addressing the fact that the poster said the earlier pros were more compelling and that "the pros were so much fun to watch because they were all champions and all so well trained in ballroom dancing" as a reason for the falling ratings.  I just pointed out the other program that had ballroom-trained dancers and that the ratings were not good.

[Uke]

38 minutes ago, crossover said:

 

OK.  I was addressing the fact that the poster said the earlier pros were more compelling and that "the pros were so much fun to watch because they were all champions and all so well trained in ballroom dancing" as a reason for the falling ratings.  I just pointed out the other program that had ballroom-trained dancers and that the ratings were not good.

I'm not aware of any promo that PBS does or putting the stars of their shows on ET, ENews, Extra etc.  You have to look at the TV listings to see what is airing.  Plus PBS I believe is state/regional, not national, so something might play Wednesdays at 8pm in my region, Saturdays at 10am in your region and not at all in some other regions.  It's also driven by contributions not massive advertising budgets.    I seem to recall Federal funding got cut or was threatened to be cut last Spring.

[Uke]

22 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

I don't believe the show falsifies the actual vote counts. There wouldn't be so much obvious manipulation week to week if all they needed to do was ignore or change the numbers.

No, I think they use everything at their disposal to influence the audience, but the voting results are real.

They don't have to falsify anything - they can just use the vote counts as an advisory as to which couple is running hot or cold with the viewers.    

I do believe there is a difference in how the various showrunners handle things.  In the early years the manipulations I think were subtler but in the past few seasons, everything seems harsher, more blatant and obvious.

[crossover]

12 minutes ago, Uke said:

I'm not aware of any promo that PBS does or putting the stars of their shows on ET, ENews, Extra etc.  You have to look at the TV listings to see what is airing.  Plus PBS I believe is state/regional, not national, so something might play Wednesdays at 8pm in my region, Saturdays at 10am in your region and not at all in some other regions.  It's also driven by contributions not massive advertising budgets.    I seem to recall Federal funding got cut or was threatened to be cut last Spring.

OK.  Just stating that I don't believe the current pros are part of the reason for the falling ratings.  I guess I thought  people interested in well-trained ballroom dancers would keep up with their live and broadcast appearances.

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, crossover said:

OK.  I was addressing the fact that the poster said the earlier pros were more compelling and that "the pros were so much fun to watch because they were all champions and all so well trained in ballroom dancing" as a reason for the falling ratings.  I just pointed out the other program that had ballroom-trained dancers and that the ratings were not good.

That also wasn't a top rated show on one of the major networks.

[crossover]

2 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

That also wasn't a top rated show on one of the major networks.

OK.  Isn't it still a top rated show on one of the major networks or has it fallen so far down that it's no longer in the "must see" category? 

[Toonces464]

21 minutes ago, crossover said:

OK.  Isn't it still a top rated show on one of the major networks or has it fallen so far down that it's no longer in the "must see" category? 

I meant PBS.

[spanana]

Ratings are sinking because all broadcast ratings are sinking. That is due to the changing nature of television, broadcast television and the way people digest television (streaming, etc.).  It also has to do with the show being more than a decade old.  For all of DWTS faults, and I think it has many, I don't think sinking ratings have to do with the state of the pro roster, the celebs or any of those other things.  Combine the changing nature of television and the age of the show, the ratings going lower is sort of a duh moment for me.  Anyone expecting a 10 year old show to still being getting peak ratings, even without factoring all broadcast ratings being down, is semi delusional.  The only reason DWTS even has this problem is because it's managed to be a solid mainstay on television for 26 seasons.  How many shows can boast 26 seasons and still live to fight another day?  I do think TPTB should do what they can to make changes and sustain the life of the show, but sinking ratings isn't a DWTS problem.  It's an all of television problem.  The main issue is the ratings system needs to be overhauled to reflect how people watch television today.

[Toonces464]

10 hours ago, spanana said:

Ratings are sinking because all broadcast ratings are sinking. That is due to the changing nature of television, broadcast television and the way people digest television (streaming, etc.).  It also has to do with the show being more than a decade old.  For all of DWTS faults, and I think it has many, I don't think sinking ratings have to do with the state of the pro roster, the celebs or any of those other things.  Combine the changing nature of television and the age of the show, the ratings going lower is sort of a duh moment for me.  Anyone expecting a 10 year old show to still being getting peak ratings, even without factoring all broadcast ratings being down, is semi delusional.  The only reason DWTS even has this problem is because it's managed to be a solid mainstay on television for 26 seasons.  How many shows can boast 26 seasons and still live to fight another day?  I do think TPTB should do what they can to make changes and sustain the life of the show, but sinking ratings isn't a DWTS problem.  It's an all of television problem.  The main issue is the ratings system needs to be overhauled to reflect how people watch television today.

Isn't it still one of ABC's top rated show, despite the sinking ratings?

[crossover]

12 hours ago, spanana said:

Ratings are sinking because all broadcast ratings are sinking. That is due to the changing nature of television, broadcast television and the way people digest television (streaming, etc.).  It also has to do with the show being more than a decade old.  For all of DWTS faults, and I think it has many, I don't think sinking ratings have to do with the state of the pro roster, the celebs or any of those other things.  Combine the changing nature of television and the age of the show, the ratings going lower is sort of a duh moment for me.  Anyone expecting a 10 year old show to still being getting peak ratings, even without factoring all broadcast ratings being down, is semi delusional.  The only reason DWTS even has this problem is because it's managed to be a solid mainstay on television for 26 seasons.  How many shows can boast 26 seasons and still live to fight another day?  I do think TPTB should do what they can to make changes and sustain the life of the show, but sinking ratings isn't a DWTS problem.  It's an all of television problem.  The main issue is the ratings system needs to be overhauled to reflect how people watch television today.

Totally agree.  This was my point all along.