B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Waldo13]

Taylor are you that stupid?  You can’t believe that Hope would say negative things about Lurch?  Taylor, as a world renowned therapist, would you know that it takes more than a few weeks for Brooke to forget about how Lurch treated her and Hope, for years in the past. In addition, Taylor you should know that it takes years and not months to fully adopt a new behavior unless you treat your patients for months and months, of therapy, when they don’t really need it. Lurch should find a support group for being obsessive over baring self righteous pigs other than his mother, sister, and father.  Taylor beside being stupid she is also thick headed and has to have Lurch repeat himself of what Hope said to Brooke. I guess for Brooke to be Taylor’s friend she has to like Lurch and forgive him completely of his transgressions. 

Lurch I haven’t seen one of your designs that shouldn’t have been scrapped.  Hope, let Lurch try to design and go eat dinner with Liam.  Lurch is only asking for your help to play with your head. He’s too much of a narcissist to really take your input.  How many times has Lurch said he doesn’t want to interfere with Hope’s marriage but he really is. He could easily told Hope to go home and he will continue working on the designs. Excuse me, what deadlines?  Don’t they already have a ton of preorders. Shouldn’t that be enough for a while?  

[KerleyQ]

 I don't know about anyone else, but I caught Steffy looking at Liam multiple times today in a way that she would have called out Hope for looking at Thomas. 

And she's been dying for Liam to drag that out of her ever since she saw Hope and Thomas holding hands, but he just was not playing ball and getting what she was hinting at, so she had to just go and volunteer that information now. 

[CharlizeCat]

Groan ... now they've got Kelly playing parent trap for Steam. Please, no!

Let me guess. Liam is going to feel neglected by all the long hours Hope is putting in with Thomas and ditto for Steffy with Finn working long shifts at the hospital. Commiseration, drinking. Two wrongs make a WRONG! And it's nice that the puke-yellow blankie of debauchery and despair is still around at the cliff house.

It's so boring that the writers have to continually revisit the same tired triangles. Actually, I could go for Hinn if that's what it came down to.

And, why can't these writers come up with any better activities or dialogue for the children than constantly trying to reunite Mom and Dad?  And BTW, when was Kelly SOARSed to be nearly the same age as Douglas? 

[smartyshorts]

I can't even post abut this show because it makes m so irrationally angry I'm afraid I will go off on some anger and frustration fueled tangent and get myself banned!

I will offer one observation that doesn't make me blindly angry just yet- Brooke is probably giving Taylor the cold shoulder right now because Taylor is up in Brooke's face about anything and everything, 24-7.    Taylor is running around town trying to exhume any lukewarm body that she might throw in Brooke's path to keep Logan off Ridge's radar.  She is too self absorbed to realize Ridge never wants Brooke MORE than when she is happy in and secure in another relationship.  Get YOURSELF laid, Dr. GiggleShoulders!  You need something to do other than haunt the halls and offices of a place where you don't work to proclaim to all  that your ADULT son is a good boy now.  No really, he totally IS! I'd be so OVER this twitchy bit^h and her antics by now too.  

At this point Hope needs to go ahead and make her bad decision and jump on the Thomas Crazy train.  Then Sad Pikachu Liam can scurry on over to Steffy's to be consoled by her vagina and I can take a nice long break from this show. My last break was when everyone was suddenly OK with Flo and had her working in the same place as her victim.  So makes sense my next break would  involve the other co-conspirator in that crime.

[Waldo13]

Taylor Taylor Taylor you are still a sanctimonious ass hole and that goes for your daughter. Taylor and Stuffy  are holding Lurch harmless but is he?  Taylor and Stuffy interpret it as Hope’s fault but they don’t want to believe that Hope is being overly nice to Lurch because of HFTF. They only surmise that Hope has feelings for Lurch. We know it’s true but in their little minds Lurch is irresistible when it comes to women. Fuck what anyone else thinks, Taylor and Stuffy can only now see Lurch as a Saint. 

Stuffy, how could you see the way Hope was looking at Lurch?  Hope’s back was towards you. You did see, though, how Lurch was looking at Hope but you of course dismissed that.  Stuffy just revels in driving a wedge between Liam and Hope. It’s nothing that Stuffy hasn’t done over and over again.  The one thing Stuffy has going right now is her marriage to Finn. Finn is too stupid to understand that a wedge is being driven between him and Stuffy. Liam, though, is only slightly more astute than Finn. Stuffy how can you be certain of Lurch crossing any lines?  He’s crossing the line daily with the way he talked to Hope and how he professes he’s a changed man. Repeat the same lie time after time after time and it becomes the truth.  Lurch is not trying to convince everyone, especially Hope, he’s a changed man. He’s trying to convince himself. Yes Lurch has changed, so tell me why does Lurch continue to fantasize about Hope. 

Taylor Taylor Taylor if it meant that much for their friendship that Brooke “must” believe in Lurch, than if I was Brooke I would tell Taylor to go fuck herself and the horse she rode in on. 

Now Hope should go fuck herself. I can see her wanting to perpetuate her line, but for her to defend Lurch over Liam is too much 🤯. 

Hope you’re wrong. Liam was not there to be with Stuffy. He was there to see his daughter Kelly. The stupidity of Liam left that fact out when he said he was at Stuffy’s house. 

[Gam2]

I was out of town for a fun trip with family and see I didn’t miss one thing. Yay for me!

[Artsda]

Hope actually getting mad at Liam finally! After all his flip flopping and he being the cheater along with Steffy and they keep judging and attacking Hope. 

[KerleyQ]

Steffy is probably so turned on from getting to drive a wedge in Liam and Hope's marriage that she's going to jump Finn's bones the second he walks in the door tonight. 

If Thomas was really not fixating on Hope anymore, he wouldn't be standing there in the office fantasizing about Hope. 

Hope, you forgot to mention, when Liam defended himself with "Steffy has a happy marriage," that she had a happy relationship with Finn when she and Liam got drunk and fucked when he was upset over Thomas before. 

[Crashcourse]

I like RJ, but the character is just too low key.  Not that I want him to be an asshole or anything, but there's no spark there.  Maybe he and Paris should hook up.

[Gam2]

5 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I like RJ, but the character is just too low key.  Not that I want him to be an asshole or anything, but there's no spark there.  Maybe he and Paris should hook up.

I don’t know yet if I like RJ but please, no Paris hook ups with any male on this show. I just can’t abide her.

[Crashcourse]

40 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

I don’t know yet if I like RJ but please, no Paris hook ups with any male on this show. I just can’t abide her.

Yeah, I was kinda joking about that, but my point was that they're both so low key.    

[Waldo13]

Couldn’t the monkeys with a keyboard called a major meeting, in the CEO office, so Lurch can tell everyone at once he’s a changed man and wants to make everyone proud. This way we don’t have to hear it every day as he explains this to everyone he comes in contact with separately. 

Stuffy Stuffy Stuffy, she blaming Hope, but she doesn’t see Lurch returning those glances and being touchy fealty with Hope.  Lurch seems to relish in eye fucking and little touches.  Shouldn’t Lurch be moving Hope away when she gets too close.  Stuffy, by telling Liam, you did more to drive a wedge between Hope’s and Liam’s marriage than Lurch. Unless you have definitive proof that Hope and Lurch had sex, you should keep your Botox lips shut. Feelings for someone doesn’t always translate into having sex.  

I didn’t thing that Hope had it in her to defend herself by going on offense.  But if all else fails, deny deny deny then tell your husband what he wants to hear wether it’s true or not. 

 

[KerleyQ]

It would be a new twist for a soap if that argument with Liam actually shook Hope up enough that it snapped her out of this Thomas obsession.  

The way they're hitting us over the head with "Thomas is changed. He's so much better now," they have to be setting us up for the reveal that, no, he has not changed, right?  Today was RJ's turn to fluff Thomas, telling him how proud he is of him. 

Did Finn actually even think about disagreeing with Steffy? Is he allowed to do that? 

[bluvelvet]

Always like reading other opinions. Anyway, after a 10+ year break from B&B I’m back for the Thomas/Hope storyline. Saw a clip with the actors and they have chemistry so here I am.  Guess I’m the only one hoping they go there and yes I’ve read all the stuff/crimes he pulled.  To be honest I just don’t care. Great scenes today with Hope and Liam over the Thomas situation. 
 

as for Bridge - that is NOT Bridge, no offense against TK but the chemistry isn’t the same. As an old school die hard Bridge fan, I couldn’t care less if they get back together. God bless KKL though, she putting in the acting with TK but they have no spark. As much as I hated Tridge, I will admit the RM/HT had chemistry.  I wish they were serious with Taylor/Brooke friendship. It would’ve been a nice change. 
 

Didn’t like Liam 10 years ago and still don’t like him now. Actor is great though. 
 

Also can’t believe Lope is still a thing after all these years. Hated that paring years ago too..

 

ETA: changed shenanigans to stuff/crimes

Edited May 29, 2023 by bluvelvet

[MajesticMariposa]

2 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Always like reading other opinions. Anyway, after a 10+ year break from B&B I’m back for the Thomas/Hope storyline. Saw a clip with the actors and they have chemistry so here I am.  Guess I’m the only one hoping they go there and yes I’ve read all the shenanigans he pulled.  To be honest I just don’t care. Great scenes today with Hope and Liam over the Thomas situation. 
 

as for Bridge - that is NOT Bridge, no offense against TK but the chemistry isn’t the same. As an old school die hard Bridge fan, I couldn’t care less if they get back together. God bless KKL though, she putting in the acting with TK but they have no spark. As much as I hated Tridge, I will admit the RM/HT had chemistry.  I wish they were serious with Taylor/Brooke friendship. It would’ve been a nice change. 
 

Didn’t like Liam 10 years ago and still don’t like him now. Actor is great though. 
 

Also can’t believe Lope is still a thing after all these years. Hated that paring years ago too..

You definitely are not the only one. Annika and Matthew have great chemistry, and I'm excited to see where the Thope story leads. Liam and Hope have been together for...4 (5?) years now, I believe. It's time for a change again. Regarding Thomas' transgressions, nothing he has done is any worse than what most of the other characters in Soap Opera Land have done, and they all are somehow able to serve as romantic interests without any hoopla. I don't know when or why Thomas somehow became the face of the Baby Beth situation, but I'm over it. If Flo, who orchestrated the kidnapping from the beginning and who was compensated for a stolen baby (don't care if she "gave the money back") and posed as a birth mother to a woman in Hope's life (what kind of sick logic is that?) is able to have her slate cleaned because she donated a kidney and is involved with Wyatt...anything Thomas did should be moot. Beth was gone for nearly a year (8/9 months I think?). Thomas found out near the end, and although his main motivation was to force Hope into a family with him and Douglas, he also had the motivation of not wanting to rip a child away from his sister. Regardless, if everyone can somehow accept and support that Wyatt is engaged to the woman who stole his niece, I don't want to hear anything about what Thomas did. Don't even get me started on Quinn (sorry, "Eve"), who was somehow allowed to become the Forrester matriarch after assaulting and kidnapping Liam (aka "Adam"). I took a very long break after that.

Anyway, the only thing that Thomas can really be blamed for at this point is anything that happened after the brain tumor discovery and maybe his treatment of Douglas, though again we've been told (ad nauseam 😜) that he has repaired that relationship. The Parent Trap stuff he pulled has been done by nearly every character who has parents who aren't together, and Emma was texting and driving on Mulholland of all places. He drugged Liam, but I can't remember if anyone else ever found that out. The Caroline stuff was forgiven. The mannequin was because of the tumor...I'm sure I've forgotten some things, but yeah, it really doesn't matter when people who have done worse (Bill, Ridge, etc.) are walking around scot-free. I don't know if I necessarily want them to be in a relationship, but I don't get all this outrage when there are other characters who have been in relationships with men who have done similar (ex. Adam and Sharon on YR--but again, Thomas did not actively participate in the kidnapping).

I am a younger viewer (early 20s) who has been watching the show with my grandmother on and off my whole life but faithfully for the past 9-ish or so years (around the time Quinn and Wyatt debuted), so a lot of my knowledge of the history is from my grandmother or the wiki, and there's some truly awful stuff that seems to have been swept under the rug, so I'm not sure why this should be different.

TK and KKL definitely have strong platonic energy, but if the showrunners want them together, they need to do it and be done. I'm assuming RJ was brought back to reignite the parent trapping--whatever. Their status needs to be settled and left alone.

Scott Clifton is an amazing actor. He's always great, and he's great with subtle reactions and expressions that would look cartoony on most other people. The other episode when he put 2+2 together about Hope's sudden passion was magnificent. But yeah, I don't mind Liam but he's definitely irked these past few weeks constantly whining and moaning to everyone about Thomas. Literally in the span of one day, this never-ending day which has spanned over a week for us--he has whined to Wyatt, driven across town to moan at Thomas, driven back to work to whine to $Bill, then gone out of his way to drive to the cliff house to whine to Steffy (after whining to her for weeks already) under the guise of visiting his daughter.🙄Of course he came at bedtime so he could corner Steffy and whine some more. She didn't seek him out and blab about Hope. She exploded because she was tired of the whining, as anyone would be. Now Hope is projecting and throwing her under the bus to cover her own lies when not too long ago she was also asking to Steffy to advocate on her behalf and convince Liam to accept Thomas. I suspect their newfound "friendship" will disappear when/if Bridge reunites. 🙄

Anyway, that was a lot. I'm taking a break until the

Spoiler

Rome episodes.

It seems that we're stalling and running in circles to get to that point. I get that repetition and reiteration is necessary for soaps so that anyone can theoretically jump in at any time, but this is ridiculous. I haven't felt this annoyed since the Baby Beth storyline, and the words "changed," "not the same person" and "feelings" have all been added to my list of trigger words. It's too much. My brain needs a break.

Anyway, that was my long-winded way of saying you aren't alone lol. I usually only lurk on this board since most people have opposite opinions, but I recognize that I don't have the same history with the show as most viewers do.💖

Edited May 27, 2023 by MajesticMariposa

[KerleyQ]

I don't think Thomas isn't a viable romantic prospect, period. I just think he's not a viable one for the person who has been the victim/target of most of his crimes. I'm all for them bringing in a new woman for him, or even trying him and Paris. Quinn didn't get a romance with her victim, Liam. (Thank God, because I had a brief fear, at the time, that they might go there.) Flo, well, she was trash who shouldn't have stuck around, period, let alone be given a love story that booted Sally off canvas. 

Personally, a "redemption" story shouldn't include the person being given everything they were plotting and scheming for when they committed all of their transgressions. 

[MajesticMariposa]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

Personally, a "redemption" story shouldn't include the person being given everything they were plotting and scheming for when they committed all of their transgressions. 

This actually brings up an interesting philosophical question, and I would be interested in hearing other perspectives about this.

Personally, I think there's something "magical," for lack of a better adjective, about the "reformed villain" attaining their formally corrupt desires through "legitimate" avenues. Sort of a "reward" for finally being good and making the point that good things happen to people who do good things. This is a simplistic summary, but you get the point. This might be too deep of a discussion for a soap, though, with all the narrative wiping and musical chairs and whatnot lol.

But yeah, I just think if the original "victim" of the transgressions (i.e. Hope) has forgiven and wiped the slate clean with the "villain," there should be no issue with the person receiving those original desires, though I can see the argument that those original desires should be forever lost to that person.

From a production standpoint, Thope has been teased on and off for like 5 years, and I think it's important to kind of tick that box and answer the question of whether this is something that can actually work narratively. Whether or not it works, who knows? But I think the audience (those in favor and those opposed) is somewhat "owed" an answer after all this time and to see what that moment would actually look like. 

Really hoping to get some more thoughts on this! I think it's a really interesting discussion! 💖 

[norcalgal]

7 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

Personally, a "redemption" story shouldn't include the person being given everything they were plotting and scheming for when they committed all of their transgressions. 

 

6 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

Personally, I think there's something "magical," for lack of a better adjective, about the "reformed villain" attaining their formally corrupt desires through "legitimate" avenues. Sort of a "reward" for finally being good and making the point that good things happen to people who do good things. This is a simplistic summary, but you get the point. This might be too deep of a discussion for a soap, though, with all the narrative wiping and musical chairs and whatnot lol.

But yeah, I just think if the original "victim" of the transgressions (i.e. Hope) has forgiven and wiped the slate clean with the "villain," there should be no issue with the person receiving those original desires, though I can see the argument that those original desires should be forever lost to that person.

Although I understand the point @MajesticMariposa is making, my thoughts line up more with what @KerleyQposted.  It doesn’t sit right with me that the reformed villain should finally attain what he schemed/lied/manipulated for as a reward for going legit. I feel people should act in a moral/legal/ethical manner just because it’s the right way to live one’s life, rather than expect a reward for virtuous behavior. But it’s time for the show to unequivocally shit or get off the pot with the Thope storyline.

[Skarzero]

10 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

From a production standpoint, Thope has been teased on and off for like 5 years, and I think it's important to kind of tick that box and answer the question of whether this is something that can actually work narratively.

It's closer to 3 or 4 since Caroline was still alive in 2018(I think). But I get the point, and the answer should be no. However, I blame Bradley and his Rinse repeat formula for it still being up in the air. Even still, that doesn't change that any build-up of this relationship has been mainly Thomas creepily thirsting afterHope and her rebuffing him. This is about the 1st time we've seen some uncertainty from Hope's POV. Other than that Thope as a ship is primarily one-sided, until this 180.

Off tangent but Idk where this idea that Shadam was originally met with welcome arms & wholly unopposed came from, I've seen it before but that is not how it went down. At all. Yes, some people were receptive but extreme backlash was the status quo. There were rumors that Shadam was born out of a smear campaign against Sharon Case/her character. That's how bad it was. I think Shadam really only caught on with fans during the MG years, and they didn't exactly ride off into the sunset in the end. Thope will probably not be the exception, especially with Bradley's writing. And there are many people on both sides of the aisle already dreading this. So it's a massive waste of time, even if they do go through with it.

3 hours ago, norcalgal said:

It doesn’t sit right with me that the reformed villain should finally attain what he schemed/lied/manipulated for as a reward for going legit. I feel people should act in a moral/legal/ethical manner just because it’s the right way to live one’s life, rather than expect a reward for virtuous behavior.

^^^This. What makes Adam work for people, is he does the right thing because it's the right thing and he almost never gets what he wants. At least not for long. Even when he's flying straight. Adam in the last 4 years has done more good and more to right his wrongs than Thomas, and he did it without a plot brain tumor cop-out, or a cast full of enablers/whitewashers. More on Adam's redemption arc vs. Thomas rinse/repeat arc later. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Skarzero

[nilyank]

12 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

Anyway, the only thing that Thomas can really be blamed for at this point is anything that happened after the brain tumor discovery and maybe his treatment of Douglas, though again we've been told (ad nauseam 😜) that he has repaired that relationship.

Thomas never had a brain tumor. He hit his head against a table and started to have weird conversations with the Hope mannequin. All his creepy behavior/crimes with his son, Hope, Liam, Brooke, Ridge and his sister was all on him.

Except for his brief relationship with Sally, Thomas has acted like a creepy weirdo with the women he got invovlved with or wanted to get involve with.

[Rye]

14 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

It would be a new twist for a soap if that argument with Liam actually shook Hope up enough that it snapped her out of this Thomas obsession.

That’s what I was hoping for from Steffy’s initial confrontation, that it would wake Hope up. I get and understand and even appreciate the social push to not blame victims for their abuse. But I think much of that narrative—entirely well-meaning as it is— is from people who’ve never been in a situation where there’s only one sane party. So the idea that it’s “not the victim’s responsibility to maintain their safety” sounds right, like yes, philosophically in a vacuum that’s correct; it’s an abuser’s responsibility not to abuse. But in reality… that’s wildly irresponsible. If victims don’t establish and maintain/enforce boundaries… there won’t be any boundaries. And expecting and telling people to behave in these life and death situations on the basis of what “should” be true and not on the basis of what is true is not protecting them. It’s putting them at even greater risk.

That was the problem with the handholding. It wasn’t “just handholding”, and it wasn’t less serious than what Steffy’s done having sex with whoever. Hope is initiating intimate, physical touch with a man who’s been her predator. That doesn’t mean she deserves to be attacked or that Thomas isn’t responsible for his actions. Should you be able to touch a man with him becoming violent or attacking you? Absolutely. However—in reality—nobody else is going to protect Hope from him. That’s reality. And that’s why I still do not care at all how hypocritical it is that Steffy’s telling people, or even what Steffy’s motives are. This situation is ridiculously dangerous for Hope and it needs to stop immediately.

I just think maybe the pendulum has swung too far, when it’s victim blaming to say victims are responsible for enforcing boundaries when that’s literally the only modicum of protection they have. Abusers aren’t capable of setting boundaries; that’s what makes them abusive. But, again, I get that it’s coming from a good place. Just… less theory and more reality will serve everyone better.

That’s not to say the boundary should be not flirting with Thomas. The boundary is no face to face contact with Thomas. And that’s Hope’s boundary to enforce. Thomas lacks the ability to identify that much less implement it.

As far as whether the argument with Liam worked, I’m gonna say no. She lied to his face, and I do think it’s a lie and not denial because she was already able to verbalize the truth to Brooke, which itself must have been terrifying and filled Hope with shame. I think that’s what triggered her saying all those bad things, it wasn’t for Brooke’s benefit, Hope probably really hates herself because of this. You could see it too in her initial berating of Brooke, projecting all that onto her mother. I don’t think it’s as simple as, “my mom slept around and I don’t want to be like that.” It’s much darker.

Count me in as hoping she is being drugged, just because of the level of psychological torment happening. I don’t think those are Hope’s real feelings.

[Waldo13]

5 hours ago, Rye said:

That’s what I was hoping for from Steffy’s initial confrontation, that it would wake Hope up. I get and understand and even appreciate the social push to not blame victims for their abuse. But I think much of that narrative—entirely well-meaning as it is— is from people who’ve never been in a situation where there’s only one sane party. So the idea that it’s “not the victim’s responsibility to maintain their safety” sounds right, like yes, philosophically in a vacuum that’s correct; it’s an abuser’s responsibility not to abuse. But in reality… that’s wildly irresponsible. If victims don’t establish and maintain/enforce boundaries… there won’t be any boundaries. And expecting and telling people to behave in these life and death situations on the basis of what “should” be true and not on the basis of what is true is not protecting them. It’s putting them at even greater risk.

That was the problem with the handholding. It wasn’t “just handholding”, and it wasn’t less serious than what Steffy’s done having sex with whoever. Hope is initiating intimate, physical touch with a man who’s been her predator. That doesn’t mean she deserves to be attacked or that Thomas isn’t responsible for his actions. Should you be able to touch a man with him becoming violent or attacking you? Absolutely. However—in reality—nobody else is going to protect Hope from him. That’s reality. And that’s why I still do not care at all how hypocritical it is that Steffy’s telling people, or even what Steffy’s motives are. This situation is ridiculously dangerous for Hope and it needs to stop immediately.

I just think maybe the pendulum has swung too far, when it’s victim blaming to say victims are responsible for enforcing boundaries when that’s literally the only modicum of protection they have. Abusers aren’t capable of setting boundaries; that’s what makes them abusive. But, again, I get that it’s coming from a good place. Just… less theory and more reality will serve everyone better.

That’s not to say the boundary should be not flirting with Thomas. The boundary is no face to face contact with Thomas. And that’s Hope’s boundary to enforce. Thomas lacks the ability to identify that much less implement it.

As far as whether the argument with Liam worked, I’m gonna say no. She lied to his face, and I do think it’s a lie and not denial because she was already able to verbalize the truth to Brooke, which itself must have been terrifying and filled Hope with shame. I think that’s what triggered her saying all those bad things, it wasn’t for Brooke’s benefit, Hope probably really hates herself because of this. You could see it too in her initial berating of Brooke, projecting all that onto her mother. I don’t think it’s as simple as, “my mom slept around and I don’t want to be like that.” It’s much darker.

Count me in as hoping she is being drugged, just because of the level of psychological torment happening. I don’t think those are Hope’s real feelings.

Brooke sleeps around and she’s called the slut of the valley meanwhile Ridge sleeps around and he’s patted on the back for putting another notch on his bedpost

Stuffy, that sanctimonious ass hat, has no business telling Liam anything. Like Taylor, Stuffy defends Lurch and anyone else is not entitled to their own opinion about Lurch. 
 
Stuffy haven’t you slept with more men than Hope?  How many DNA tests did Hope have to determine the father?  
 

The monkeys with a keyboard are injecting into Lurch the character played by John Travolta in the movie “Michael”. Travolta plays an unscrupulous dark angel who, through the sent of his pheromones, can have any woman he wants.  For Hope, it’s the scent of Lurch’s draw by numbers and color by numbers designs. 🤢🤮. 
 

I agree with a previous point made about Adam. Adam is what have you done for me lately and Lurch is forget about whatever I’ve done lately

[Artsda]

Why didn't Hope bring up the manequin when Liam said he's always trusted her.  He's the one that runs to Steffy over everything and slept with her to the point of needing a paternity test. 

Hope never should have forgave him or Steffy.   

[Waldo13]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

Why didn't Hope bring up the manequin when Liam said he's always trusted her.  He's the one that runs to Steffy over everything and slept with her to the point of needing a paternity test. 

Hope never should have forgave him or Steffy.   

I agree. 

It’s just that it’s Lurch that is her heart’s desire 🤢🤢🤮.

If Hope wants a bad boy, then get herself a Magic Mike.  

[KerleyQ]

21 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

Personally, I think there's something "magical," for lack of a better adjective, about the "reformed villain" attaining their formally corrupt desires through "legitimate" avenues. Sort of a "reward" for finally being good and making the point that good things happen to people who do good things. This is a simplistic summary, but you get the point. This might be too deep of a discussion for a soap, though, with all the narrative wiping and musical chairs and whatnot lol.

I'll say I don't think that they should absolutely, no exceptions, never get it. But, I don't think it should be part of the redemption story itself, which this absolutely is. We're being told, he's different, he's putting in the work, etc. But, how much is him actually being better, and how much is him just not having to do anything right now, because he's been given everything he wants (to varying degrees)? He got his job back after a pretty brief ouster. He's working directly with Hope again. She's acting like he's her BFF. He's got access to Douglas. Steffy, Ridge, and Taylor have all forgiven him. And everyone (except Liam and Brooke) is pounding sunshine up his ass 24/7 about how proud they are of him. Even RJ, who seemed poised to be an adversary when he got back to town, was fawning over him this week, telling him how proud he is of him. And, yeah, he's not fucking Hope, yet, but she's making heart eyes at him and initiating contact every day. 

If they had not regressed him after the storyline where he helped get Liam and Bill freed, I think it would be far less distasteful for him to start looking like he's going to get the things he used to try to scheme for by just being a good guy. But they did have him regress. And, especially since his regression involved coming onto Hope, framing her mother to break up her marriage, and emotionally abusing her son, it's just so gross that not even six months played out after that before Hope was fantasizing about him. The reformed villain eventually getting happiness is a good soapy story, when it feels earned. They didn't put in the work for Thomas to earn it at this point. We literally went from him monologuing about getting vengeance for everyone taking Douglas away from him to Taylor trotting him into Steffy's living room demanding she forgive him and see he's changed. (Which is why I think he's doing something now, somehow. Why have the evil villain monologue if you never intended to do a single damn thing with it? Him somehow making Hope fall for him, whether it's by drugging her or some kind of soap opera mind control, and then using that to blow up her marriage and get custody of Douglas would be the ultimate vengeance on her and Liam. And maybe even on Steffy, if that led to Liam fucking up her marriage.) 

[Anna Yolei]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:30 PM, Waldo13 said:

Liam was not there to be with Stuffy. He was there to see his daughter Kelly.

A thing that he has been doing for the last four or five years, and who Hope has fully supported until now, which makes this fight all the more ridiculous.

 

On 5/26/2023 at 7:10 PM, bluvelvet said:

Guess I’m the only one hoping they go there and yes I’ve read all the shenanigans he pulled.  To be honest I just don’t care.

Maybe in a vacuum I could like this, but you thankfully got to miss out on the eight months of Hope having absolutely nothing to do but cry about her baby--save for the moments she bonded with Douglas, who was grieving over his own mother--and the infamous scene of Thomas nearly decking his kid for telling the truth.

I feel you on the Liam circa 2013 hate, but this is too high a cost for me.

On 5/26/2023 at 9:17 PM, MajesticMariposa said:

If Flo, who orchestrated the kidnapping from the beginning and who was compensated for a stolen baby (don't care if she "gave the money back") and posed as a birth mother to a woman in Hope's life (what kind of sick logic is that?) is able to have her slate cleaned because she donated a kidney and is involved with Wyatt...anything Thomas did should be moot

TBH, I know very few fans who felt that Flo had earned any kind of redemption either. TIIC  tried to do a speedrun on that too and it worked as well as the one on Thomas.

But Flo for all the shitty justifications she pulled about why she did what she did, stopped being actively shitty from that point. (or at least, stopped being *that* flavor of shitty) Thomas never has, and even worse, he continues to drag an innocent kid into his mess. Yes, soap villains may have been able to walk back from some truly heinous stuff, but that's after years of decent behavior and even then, they don't have the entire universe kissing their ass, not even Victor Newman or Sonny.

I'd argue that he had a bigger moral responsibility to clue Hope and Steffy in but even putting aside, his shit behavior after Beth was found has just left a bad taste in my mouth and it's made all the worse that we've already gotten a much better redemption for the character a year before Matthew Atkinson was cast that was just memory holed for the purpose of forcing this pairing to happen.

On 5/26/2023 at 11:30 PM, MajesticMariposa said:

Personally, I think there's something "magical," for lack of a better adjective, about the "reformed villain" attaining their formally corrupt desires through "legitimate" avenues. Sort of a "reward" for finally being good and making the point that good things happen to people who do good things. This is a simplistic summary, but you get the point. This might be too deep of a discussion for a soap, though, with all the narrative wiping and musical chairs and whatnot lol.

I can definitely respect this. There's been a movement of sorts in fandom (less so B&B than other popular fandoms since about 2015 or so) about this sort of thing, like the never ending Reylo debate in Star Wars.

All I ask is that the writing makes some narrative damn sense. If Hope's moved past his role in Beth being kept from her AND torturing Douglas AND lying to another woman to try to get her back AND blowing up her mother's marriage AND whatever else I'm forgetting about at 6 in the morning as I type this then so be it but there has to be some logic beyond "waking up in love with someone new."

As @KerleyQ said earlier, I don't have have a problem villains getting what they want after deciding to be honest. But they have to ...you know... actually CHANGE. Which TIIC had the perfect window for when Thomas got Bill and Liam out of jail but they just... didn't. :\

22 hours ago, Skarzero said:

Off tangent but Idk where this idea that Shadam was originally met with welcome arms & wholly unopposed came from, I've seen it before but that is not how it went down. At all. Yes, some people were receptive but extreme backlash was the status quo.

Fully agree. Michael Muhney himself had a shit ton of fans and the...I'll be charitable and say "polarizing" opinions around the character got the TWoP Y&R thread shut down more than once, but other than some fans enjoying Nick's face getting cracked because Sharon was finally moving on from him, it was definitely not popular.

[Skarzero]

^^^^Re the Adam vs. Thomas. Either by complete accident or dumb luck, Y&R was able to redeem Adam without shortcuts, without having all the people he hurt forgive him, and certainly without the "He's changed so fuck you & fuck your feelings." The writing was/is simply better for Adam. Same with other characters  Victor/Sonny as previously mentioned, that got "reformed". Their sins might not be front & center all the time but they aren't rug-swept either. For Sonny/Adam reformation didn't equal unanimous priase or insta forgiveness. Like it does for Thomas.

To put it another way, it's a matter of showing vs telling. We're only told Thomas has changed, other soaps showed their leads changing.

Also unlike Liam, Nick was not seen as some butthurt insecure dickhead(he is that today though for what it's worth) that had no business not trusting Adam. Meanwhile Thomas can't handle 2 measly detractors. Both of whom are gaslit at best, & coldly reprimanded at worst, for holding him accountable. So that makes Taylor/Steffy/Hope look like even bigger clowns for complaining that he's not trusted. Save for like 2ish people, he pretty much is.....🙄

In an era where cheap villain redemption fatigue has set in, Thomas probably does have a somewhat higher climb back than his counterparts. It might seem unfair because of the times, but that's just the name of the game. And under better writing Thomas would be better for it, but we all know how Bradley & co. roll....

Edited May 28, 2023 by Skarzero

[Waldo13]

IMHO, with Hope entering the fray, Stuffy, Lurch, Taylor, Liam, and Brooke are in a club, Hypocrisy-R-US. 
 

Going to another comparison of soap opera characters, Hope and Summer are very similar. Hope will do anything, even thinking Lurch has changed, to save HFTF.  Summer will do anything for Phyllis, even break the law knowing that Phyllis has broken the law, to save Phyllis from going to jail.  Hope in a sense is a battered wife with all the crap Liam has put her through. So it’s easy for Hope to forgive and have pho feelings for Lurch because that’s the MO of a battered woman. As for Summer, I’m thinking the same thing but she’s a battered child. No matter what crap Phillis pulls, Summer forgives her. Phyllis is the master of manipulation and guilt trips. 

[SweePea59]

I haven't had a chance to watch this past week and I may not have the chance to catch up. And based on what I've read here it's all been Liam bitching and moaning about Thomas, and Hope and Thomas. Yuck. Can anyone tell me - were there any Sheila scenes last week?

[bluvelvet]

Great discussion and insights all around.

The one thing I will say I find annoying is the repetition when I came back.  I like the Thomas/Hope possibility but rolled my eyes when the entire episode centered around them - them or people talking about them. It's a tad bit too much.  I said - maybe I should just come back when they are in Rome...:)

I remember old school B&B had stories that centered around multiple characters - OG Sally, Darla, Clarke.. Do they no longer have a rival fashion house??

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by bluvelvet

[KerleyQ]

1 hour ago, bluvelvet said:

The one thing I will say I find annoying is the repetition when I came back.  I like the Thomas/Hope possibility but rolled my eyes when the entire episode centered around them - them or people talking about them. It's a tad bit too much.  I said - maybe I should just come back when they are in Rome...:)

I very much do not want Thomas/Hope to happen, but yeah, I'd take them just fucking and getting it over with at this point over more weeks and weeks of everyone talking about Thomas and Hope. 

[Crashcourse]

Damn.  I was hoping that Hope would walk in and bust Steffy in those rubber lips of hers.  

[backhometome]

Do these people really care about Liam's feelings that much? whenever at FC HFTF with Thomas/Hope is discussed its always "well what about Liam's feelings" business should be first over Liam's insecure feelings. 

The helmet hair on Steffy is a no. But the blue is nice. 

If what Steffy saw was nothing Hope, then why tell her to keep quiet. 🙄

And I am pretty sure both Liam and Hope got Steffy involved in this. Didn't Hope ask her to talk to Liam about working with Thomas. 

Its time for RJ to do something already. Instead of everyone fawning over him. 

This show has been exhausting to watch lately.

[KnightStorm]

Is it just me...or does Steffy look like a vampire hooker?

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, KnightStorm said:

Is it just me...or does Steffy look like a vampire hooker?

RUN, FINN, RUN!!!  

I like Finn and I wish he wasn't tethered to Steffy.  

[CharlizeCat]

NO ONE should be tethered to Steffy!

[Gam2]

Um, what exactly is the purpose of RJ on this show? All he does is walk into offices at FC and gossip about his family. Riveting, I’m sure.

[Waldo13]

There is no other FC line than HFTF?  Now they are going to Rome for a fashion shoot?  Rome doesn’t speak to me as a backdrop for HFTF. Rome shouts couture not to the market that HFTF targets. 

RJ asks how Liam is going to feel about Lurch and Hope going to Rome together. I’m quite sure he’s not going to like it but what is going to keep him from going representing Eye on Fashion?  

 Nice going Deacon on calling out Taylor for using him so she can get back with Ridge. That’s exactly what she wants. 

Talking about calling out, Hope tried to but Stuffy, as usual, is intimidated by Stuffy. Maybe not, but time will tell. 

[Skarzero]

On 5/28/2023 at 3:03 PM, Waldo13 said:

I’m thinking the same thing but she’s a battered child. No matter what crap Phillis pulls, Summer forgives her. Phyllis is the master of manipulation and guilt trips

Summer is as much under narcissistic control as she is genuinely a trash person anyway. Hope's worst triait is being a coward when she needs to stand her ground, and being hard-headed when she should fallback. As bad as Summer is, she didn't really have a snowball's chance in hell being raised by a narc like Phyllis & "best dad" Nick and Grampire Newman's influence to boot. When it comes to parentage, Hope got a better deal than Summer. Which is crazy considering how the former was concieved. 

11 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Do they no longer have a rival fashion house??

Nope, and TIIC are blowing a perfect opportunity to create one just to prop this pairing (almost) no one wants. How is this the same show that had Brooke take on all the Forresters & OG Stephanie over her BeLieF Formula(and won!) 30 yrs ago. But today, Hope can't think to leave FC, sue for the rights to HFTF, & tell Dollar Tree Stephanie to go screw herself because she will not work with her abuser? In between Thomas' fuckery & Steffy dissing her mother to her face repeatedly she's got more than a good case for a hostile work environment. But that might cause horrible things like, interesting plotlines, character development & non repeative dialouge and that's blasphemous on this show 🙃

Do the writers not realize that since R.J hasn't been pushed into working at FC having him there all the time to talk about his parent's love life is just as bad as if Ridge had successfully pressured him into working there? What am I saying? Of course they don't...

[nkotb]

10 hours ago, Skarzero said:

Nope, and TIIC are blowing a perfect opportunity to create one just to prop this pairing (almost) no one wants. How is this the same show that had Brooke take on all the Forresters & OG Stephanie over her BeLieF Formula(and won!) 30 yrs ago. But today, Hope can't think to leave FC, sue for the rights to HFTF, & tell Dollar Tree Stephanie to go screw herself because she will not work with her abuser? In between Thomas' fuckery & Steffy dissing her mother to her face repeatedly she's got more than a good case for a hostile work environment. But that might cause horrible things like, interesting plotlines, character development & non repeative dialouge and that's blasphemous on this show 🙃

Do the writers not realize that since R.J hasn't been pushed into working at FC having him there all the time to talk about his parent's love life is just as bad as if Ridge had successfully pressured him into working there? What am I saying? Of course they don't...

There’s currently a writers’ strike. I think if we all pitch in, we could pay for you to write the show. Guarantee this post is better than anything we’ll see. 
 

I'm in for $100. 😉

[backhometome]

Hope is a moron and has selective memory. Steffy did go to her before Liam about what she saw. 

Of course she goes running to mommy to fight her battles. I despise Brooke in her "my daughter" mode. 

[Gam2]

Brooke goes to NuTay to demand that her daughter withdraw every word she said to Liam? Are these people in kindergarten who need their mommies to protect them on the play ground? I honestly don’t now how Brooke could have said those words. 

[kitmerlot1213]

I'm kind of enjoying this new angry Hope, especially if she's able to bring the anger to Liam.  I hope she reminds him of the numerous times she's forgiven his vast array of betrayals and yes, I have no doubt Hope is horrified by her own lustful thoughts but she needs to cut herself a break for being human.

Tomorrow's Brooke/Taylor conversation if going to be epic.

[Waldo13]

Another bitchy move by Stuffy telling Mommy and Daddy that Hope has feelings for Lurch. It’s only Stuffy’s perception and now I’m quite sure Mommy Dearest is going to tell Lurch. 

Hope has romantic feelings for Lurch but, in their little minds, that’s were they go. They dismiss that fact that Hope could easily have feelings for Lurch that are purely plutonic.  

The triumvirate of deplorable, my boy my boy my brother my brother in a few months Lurch has erased years of being an unhinged reprobate. 

Stuffy and Taylor you cannot guarantee that Lurch would push Hope away it she tried to kiss him.  Taylor pushed Ridge away this time but she probably would not the second time since she will find any excuse to break her agreement with Brooke.  

[Gam2]

The best thing I can say about Hope today is that she didn’t have those greasy hanks of hair hanging down in her face. Other than that, nada.

[Artsda]

Why doesn't Brooke go to Ridge with all these comments on Steffy and make demands of him going to his daughter to take back her comments. 

Plus Steffy is a grown woman and Liam knows she won't suddenly take anything back. Brooke's plan is ridiculous. 

[KerleyQ]

"You know how Thomas is always accused of being infatuated with Hope?"  Um, bitch, that's because he is. That's established fact. And it's not the infatuation that's the issue. You can't help having feelings for someone. Someone needs to explain the difference to Steffy - yeah, Hope has a crush or whatever, but she's not boiling your brother's bunny. She's not gaslighting her son into some bullshit plan. She's not murdering anyone to keep her plan in place. 

And, sure, Steffy can be tired of Liam bitching about her brother, but that's not Hope's fault. Hope could have absolutely zero feelings for Thomas, and Thomas could be the most reformed saint in all of history, and Liam is still always going to not trust him around Hope. And he has more than earned the right to not trust him. Her problem is with Liam, and, instead of just telling him "we can't do this anymore. I'm not going to keep reassuring you or fighting with you about my brother. If you still have an issue with him, that's fine, but it's your issue, not mine." Instead, she took a flame thrower to his marriage, because, just like her brother, she's never going to get over the fact that Liam and Hope chose each other instead of the two of them. 

Funny how Taylor can get her undies in a wad over Brooke not repeatedly updating her with "still don't trust your son!" but Taylor can sit around with Steffy and Ridge and gossip about Brooke's daughter without having shared her thoughts with Brooke. And, Taylor, defending Thomas requires throwing someone else under the bus? Defending Thomas can't just be contained to speaking of Thomas? This just shows that Steffy and her mommy both know that this situation is a powder keg waiting to go off, and they'd rather focus the blame on Hope preemptively instead of acknowledging that, hey, maybe these two really shouldn't be working in such a close capacity. 

But, yeesh, Hope's mommy going to confront Steffy's mommy is just cringeworthy. If these two can't keep their children, who are pretty much perpetually in some level of conflict, out of their friendship, then time to call it. Of course, now Taylor is using those disagreements over their kids as permission to pursue Ridge without being upfront about it. She is her daughter's mother. 

[Rye]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:26 AM, nkotb said:

There’s currently a writers’ strike. I think if we all pitch in, we could pay for you to write the show. Guarantee this post is better than anything we’ll see. 
 

I'm in for $100. 😉

 

[Anna Yolei]

On 5/30/2023 at 7:26 AM, nkotb said:

There’s currently a writers’ strike. I think if we all pitch in, we could pay for you to write the show. Guarantee this post is better than anything we’ll see. 
 

I'm in for $100. 😉

I don't support scab work, but for B&B, I'd gladly make an exception because these plots? woof.

14 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

But, yeesh, Hope's mommy going to confront Steffy's mommy is just cringeworthy. If these two can't keep their children, who are pretty much perpetually in some level of conflict, out of their friendship, then time to call it.

Seriously. This was tiresome even when their daughters were still teenagers and them fighting by proxy was a huge part of why I couldn't fuck with either Steam OR Lope back in the day. It often felt like the adults wanted the relationship to work more than either Hope or Steffy did.

But now when the kids are in their mid-30s with children of their own? Just no.

 

[Rye]

Taylor’s fucking crazy, dude.