S05.E07: Nimue

[PixiePaws1]

When Emma was making a point of telling Merlin that she felt how much Nimue still loved him I swear I could see a flashing neon sign attached to the top of the anvil that was falling on a signpost in the background.

[OnceUponAJen]

When Emma was making a point of telling Merlin that she felt how much Nimue still loved him I swear I could see a flashing neon sign attached to the top of the anvil that was falling on a signpost in the background.

And yet, Nimue was REALLY trying to persuade/bully Emma into killing him. Not feeling the love.

[Camera One]

Survivors of village massacres are evil because of their vengeance, and someone trying to kill you is them saying they love you really really really really really deep down.  Why are these complex emotions so difficult for us to understand?

[PixiePaws1]

Survivors of village massacres are evil because of their vengeance, and someone trying to kill you is them saying they love you really really really really really deep down. Why are these complex emotions so difficult for us to understand?

sounds like Archie needs to franchise along with Grannies. ...!

[chrisvee]

Yeah poor Nimue gets no compassion despite her PTSD.

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah poor Nimue gets no compassion despite her PTSD.

I don't think much people are buying what the writers are selling when it comes to her though.

 

What little we know about her, and the stuff Vortigan did, she did the world a favor. Plus Merlin is so passive. How hard was it to just build a prison, collect him. He had no magic, he was a mortal looking for immortality. Why let that happen?

[Mathius]

As said before, it isn't Nimue's actions that are the problem (killing for revenge when the victim, no matter how much he may deserve to die, is completely defenseless and able to be imprisoned is wrong.) The problem is Merlin's INaction, that he wasn't allowed to present the right way of going about things. He should have been shown to want to deal with Vortigan without killing him, yet instead we're given the impression that he'd allow Vortigan to go along his merry way slaughtering villages so long as HE isn't inconvenienced by it.

[LizaD]

Yeah I was on Nimue's side, just like I was on Percival's side.

 

 

killing for revenge when the victim, no matter how much he may deserve to die, is completely defenseless and able to be imprisoned is wrong

 

Vortigan wasn't that defenseless. He had Excalibur and since Merlin, like you said, was standing there doing nothing but looking pretty.... Besides Merlin is a goodie so that automatically means he has no brain cells to speak of.

 

 

And yet, Nimue was REALLY trying to persuade/bully Emma into killing him. Not feeling the love.

 

Maybe Emma was projecting. Or maybe Nimue set Emma up with her own test? At the end Emma said something like, now you want me to put Excalibur together when you tried to stop me in Camelot? Nimue said it was because that back there she could've used it to destroy the darkness but not now. Is that "trying to stop me" a future event we haven't seen or was she referring to the one here with Merlin? But either way yeah it's definitely messed up.

 

But maybe if Nimue could squeeze out a few tears with a sad puppy face, she could get true pure love stamped on it too.

Edited November 11, 2015 by LizaD

[Mathius]

Vortigan wasn't that defenseless

Nimue had his heart and controlled him to throw down his weapon. I repeat: she held his heart. That makes someone as defenseless as one could possibly be. Killing him was unnecessary, and moral issues aside, doing so with literally holy power is just a bad idea period.

[YaddaYadda]

A&E are unoriginal. Women, and sin. Eve took a bite out of the apple, and Nimue crushed a heart. They just can't help themselves. I should've seen this one coming miles away.

[Camera One]

The problem is Merlin's INaction, that he wasn't allowed to present the right way of going about things. He should have been shown to want to deal with Vortigan without killing him, yet instead we're given the impression that he'd allow Vortigan to go along his merry way slaughtering villages so long as HE isn't inconvenienced by it.

 

I don't see how Merlin can be blamed and I didn't get the impression he was going to just let Vortigan go if Nimue had not killed him.  Would Nimue have just dropped the heart if Merlin said he was going to put Vortigan in prison?  Was Vortigan amenable to diplomatic meetings?   

 

More than that, the whole setup was problematic, since the situation was presented as if it was an either/or.  Merlin kills Vortigan with magic vs. Merlin does nothing so Nimue must kill Vortigan.  Merlin didn't want to kill Vortigan, fine.  But couldn't he use his magic to immobilize him or to trap him?  We saw him do this to a bunch of soldiers at the beginning of "The Bear and the Bow" and he had no moral quandaries about that.  

 

Too bad Belle and Merida weren't around to make Merlin a hero.  I'm sure if Merlin put his mind to it, he could have gone after Vortigan's army and secured victory by throwing a Middlemist flower in everyone's face.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Camera One

[Delphi]

I think the problem wasn't that he wouldn't have not done something, but until it affected him he stood idly by. Like if you have the power and are noble, stop the tyrants.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think the idea that Merlin is kind of a Pacifist or at least has some tendencies, because it seems to fit (in a strange way, although he seems to be okay with fighting for the greater good). He hasn't used his magic to hurt anyone yet (intentionally). He's more love&kindness&non-lethal methods, etc vs revenge stuff.

We don't know what he planned to do concerning Vortigan. He wasn't going to kill him, but I suppose we'll never know.

[Rumsy4]

I like the idea of a monk-like Merlin. I wish they had emphasized that aspect in his characterization. He does seem non-confrontational--he couldn't bring himself to stab the DO either.

[Shanna Marie]

It might help in understanding Merlin's stance if we had a better sense of what he was running from at the beginning. Was he an escaped prisoner who was rightfully imprisoned because he actually was a criminal, but the fortune of finding the Grail made him turn his life around? In that case, he might be working very hard not to fall back into his old ways and to stay on the good side (a lot like Hook is now). Or was he enslaved/unjustly imprisoned, so he'd seen first-hand the bad effects of violence and was determined never to go down that road, himself, even when he was the one with power?

[KAOS Agent]

I think Merlin and his companion were POWs or else they were soldiers who'd been arrested for some reason.

 

Man: They following?

Merlin: No. They wouldn't trail escaped generals into this, much less foot soldiers.

[Camera One]

I think the idea that Merlin is kind of a Pacifist or at least has some tendencies, because it seems to fit (in a strange way, although he seems to be okay with fighting for the greater good). He hasn't used his magic to hurt anyone yet (intentionally). He's more love&kindness&non-lethal methods, etc vs revenge stuff.

 

Didn't he throw fireballs or something into rooms at the beginning of "The Bear and the Bow"?  I couldn't tell what he was doing, but it didn't look peaceful.

[HoodlumSheep]

Didn't he throw fireballs or something into rooms at the beginning of "The Bear and the Bow"? I couldn't tell what he was doing, but it didn't look peaceful.

I don't think he did? He made the lights flicker all crazy-like (so a bright flash), but Captain Charming took care of the guards. And then he relit the torches with magic. No fireballs.

*rewatched the scene: he knocks out (?) One lone guard just with a wave of a hand (so maybe he put him to sleep?). Nothing, I'd really consider...violent?

Edited November 13, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Camera One]

Thanks for rewatching and clarifying, LOL.  No, nothing really violent but in hindsight, he seemed to be quite in his element so not as pacifist and gentle as he was in the flashback.  Maybe the years after Nimue changed him.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

In assessing the theme words this week, it seems that Jane has heard our cry and wrote an entire episode without the word hero being mentioned once. It's like she's trying to make up for my sitting through "Bleeding Through". It doesn't entirely work, but it's a start.

 

Jane also managed to avoid "snuffing" anything this week. I rather appreciated the change to "cutting away" and "dousing" for new terminology. The thesaurus is our friend, people.

 

In the battle of Saviour v Dark One, well this was the Dark One's origin story, so it once again crushed its competition 18-1 and now leads 92-27 on the season. The Darkness similarly reigned supreme with 11 mentions this week giving it a total of 61 for the season compared to a mere 23 mentions at the same point in 4B.

[LizaD]

Nimue had his heart and controlled him to throw down his weapon. I repeat: she held his heart. That makes someone as defenseless as one could possibly be. Killing him was unnecessary, and moral issues aside

Ok so why does Snow constantly get bashed for not executing Woegina? She was tied up and defenseless too. And no Snow isn't only bashed for letting her free but that she didn't kill her then too.

If Snow would've been justified in executing Woegina then Nimue is justified in killing Vortigan.

It's this exact reason A&E use to keep the heroes under the villains' heels.

Snow had Cora's heart. I repeat Snow had Cora's heart. Therefore Cora was defenseless and Snow was also looking for vengeance and used a life taking candle. Voila dark spot heart and murderer! If I didn't buy that bullshit for Snow, I'm not going to buy it for Nimue.

[DigitalCount]

Ok so why does Snow constantly get bashed for not executing Woegina? She was tied up and defenseless too. And no Snow isn't only bashed for letting her free but that she didn't kill her then too.

If Snow would've been justified in executing Woegina then Nimue is justified in killing Vortigan.

It's this exact reason A&E use to keep the heroes under the villains' heels.

Snow had Cora's heart. I repeat Snow had Cora's heart. Therefore Cora was defenseless and Snow was also looking for vengeance and used a life taking candle. Voila dark spot heart and murderer! If I didn't buy that bullshit for Snow, I'm not going to buy it for Nimue.

But Snow wasn't looking for vengeance, she was looking to stop Cora from bathing Storybrooke in blood. She also wanted to save Rumpel, as bizarre as that is to write out. Furthermore, I'd say that execution is different from vengeance. Wasn't Vortigan just a dude? Separate him from Excalibur and he'll never be able to threaten Merlin or Nimue. The problem is that with Regina and Cora, there's not really a middle ground. Either you let them go with no reason to believe that they won't just up and murder everybody, or you kill them and then eat a pastry.

[KingOfHearts]

 

But Snow wasn't looking for vengeance, she was looking to stop Cora from bathing Storybrooke in blood.

I don't believe it was 100% self-defense. Throughout that episode, and even in the one before it, Snow's anger was amounted from choosing "good" and losing loved ones because of it. Cora killed her mother, started the revenge plot for Regina to kill her father and ruin her life, and also killed Joanna. There was a need for justice there. Unlike Nimue, she had no choice in saving her family. Killing Cora was necessary. As others have pointed out, there were alternatives concerning Vortigan. But I think Snow and Nimue were sharing similar feelings.

 

I'm not saying Snow made the wrong decision in killing Cora. But I'm not willing to say there was no vengeance involved, either. We'd all like to believe there wasn't, but that's not how it was written.

Edited November 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

Re Merlin and Vortigen:  There's tree-making magic right at hand.  Put Vortigan in a tree for a few hundred years, and let him out if it seems he's renounced his violent ways.  Nope, can't do that!

[Camera One]

So you have any feeling of anger at the perpetrator, and then it becomes an evil deed, even if it's a kill or be-killed situation?  Nimue I think felt more than vengeance.  She felt the power and liked it.  She liked holding the heart and having power over Vortigan.  She had a moment to think and she still crushed it over all the other alternatives.  She already had plans to use the power for more than what Merlin used it for.

 

Merlin was stupid to tell Nimue about having the Holy Grail and having eternal life.  Surely, he could have seen the temptation, or the logical next question Nimue might have asked - why give up your immortality for me, why not both be immortal forever?  Why did that conversation never happen?

Edited November 14, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I think Merlin's plan was pretty selfish in general, but I understand that he was so tired of it all. There was some discussion in the spoiler thread about what exactly it means to cut away his magic. In show, they've said that the sword could end the light or the dark, so does that mean that Merlin removing his magic would have removed all light magic from the world? If so, that's really not good. That said, when he talked about having patience with Emma and that her kind of power whether for good or evil is a weight on the soul, he was speaking from experience. It's hard living the way he did. The problem is that other people can't really understand that. Emma & Merlin are pretty selfless people who give and give and give, while others like Nimue are seduced by the idea of power and aren't as concerned with the consequences of accepting it. There may be a noble goal in the beginning (help the helpless, end the ogre wars), but the power goes to their heads after a while. It's very hard to explain that to someone who has no experience of it. Merlin & Emma could have a discussion where they could decide what to do with the rest of their lives with full knowledge of all that it entails, but Merlin & Nimue could not.

[Camera One]

I was just surprised Nimue didn't raise the possibility herself.  Of becoming immortal herself and saying they could help people together.  

[babyPhat279]

It's probably nitpicking, but why did Nimue go to Merlin in the first place? To plant some seeds? Merlin seems like overkill. She could ask just about anyone with land. Or find a field.

[YaddaYadda]

It's probably nitpicking, but why did Nimue go to Merlin in the first place? To plant some seeds? Merlin seems like overkill. She could ask just about anyone with land. Or find a field.

 

I didn't think she went to him specifically. I got the impression she showed up in the village, and she knew who he was because I'm guessing his reputation precedes him.

[Rumsy4]

I was just surprised Nimue didn't raise the possibility herself.  Of becoming immortal herself and saying they could help people together.  

 

But she did. That's when he gave the speech about special moments being lost in a sea of other moments. She didn't seem very convinced when she agreed. 

[Camera One]

Oh right, I just rewatched that scene and I had missed that, though I did remember the "special moments" scene since it reminded me of what Snow told Charming, or the other way around.  So Nimue went directly against what Merlin wanted.  Interesting...

Edited November 14, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

 

So Nimue went directly against what Merlin wanted.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to say she was going against what he wanted, so much as that she wanted something he wasn't willing to give. Merlin considered his immortality a curse and a huge burden. He wasn't willing to confer that on someone he loved or anyone else for that matter. Someone noted the very well worn trail up to where Merlin was helping people, so he clearly worked very hard day after day after day helping people and potentially having to turn them away when their request was unacceptable in some way. That's got to be very wearing especially as you watch the people around you live and grow and die while nothing changes for you. Merlin seemed a bit like Zoso in that both were pretty much ready to be done with the whole immortality thing. Zoso got Rumpelstiltskin to kill him while Merlin forged a weapon to "kill" the magic inside him. It would be interesting to know how Nimue eventually died. Did she learn that limitless power isn't all it's cracked up to be and eventually do as Zoso did or was she killed before she got to that point?

[Camera One]

I doubt it from her frenetic and intense behavior when she was "resurrected" by Dark Emma.

[Writing Wrongs]

On re-watching this, I just noticed that kid Apprentice is wearing what kid Arthur is wearing in "The Sword in the Stone".

[darkestboy]

One of the better episodes we've had this series. Liked Merlin and Nimue's backstory together.

Really liked the last scene with all the Dark Ones as well.

Zelena betraying the gang to work with Arthur made sense to me as well, good twist.

Emma and Merlin had some good moments in this one as well, 7/10

[KingOfHearts]

I've gotten to this episode in my rewatch. It's getting slower now that I've dealt with Merida and Henry's teen romance. A couple things:

* Merlin said that if he used magic to kill, "darkness would take root in him" forever. Emma used magic to kill Cruella, so is she forever dark now?
* I would have loved it if Snow just told Zelena to shut up. That would have been a great moment. It's very cartoony that she fell for Zelena's cries and it adds another item to the list of things that make her look stupid.

[Shanna Marie]

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Merlin said that if he used magic to kill, "darkness would take root in him" forever. Emma used magic to kill Cruella, so is she forever dark now?

I'm guessing that has something to do with the power of the Grail. Merlin's magic was from the Grail, and apparently any misuse of it would turn someone dark. Emma's magic is from another source. And did she intentionally set out to kill Cruella in cold-blooded murder, or was she reacting instinctively? Those are the loopholes that occur to me.

The Zelena and Snow thing was a bad case of Idiot Plotting -- the plot only works if the characters act like idiots. They were too lazy to come up with a really clever way for Zelena to have escaped to work with Arthur and instead went with the most obvious ploy ever.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

The Zelena and Snow thing was a bad case of Idiot Plotting -- the plot only works if the characters act like idiots. They were too lazy to come up with a really clever way for Zelena to have escaped to work with Arthur and instead went with the most obvious ploy ever.

Zelena, tied up, could knock out Bandit!Snow in two seconds? Yeah, I don't believe it. I'm pretty sure Snow was armed with a sword and everything.

Quote

I'm guessing that has something to do with the power of the Grail. Merlin's magic was from the Grail, and apparently any misuse of it would turn someone dark. Emma's magic is from another source. And did she intentionally set out to kill Cruella in cold-blooded murder, or was she reacting instinctively? Those are the loopholes that occur to me.

While that is probably true, it harkens back to the show's philosophy that all killing is bad. Snow's dark spot, the shaming on Emma for killing Cruella, etc. As far as the worldbuilding goes, they never really explored the purpose of the Grail or why it was holy. It strayed from the traditional understanding of its origins. In the show, it's just this random object from the gods that got turned into Excalibur, which got turned into the Dagger. It makes sense if you squint, but in the context of the universe it's in, it's very contrived.

Spoiler

The gods mythology in 5B was presented as such too.

Edited September 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Zelena, tied up, could knock out Bandit!Snow in two seconds? Yeah, I don't believe it.

But this isn't Bandit!Snow yet. This is Mary Margaret. Apparently they're two separate entities, much like Regina and the Evil Queen, and Mary Margaret has to flip a light switch in order to become badass Snow again.

[Shanna Marie]

11 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

While that is probably true, it harkens back to the show's philosophy that all killing is bad.

Unless you're killing one of Regina's victims for being angry at her for murdering his village. Then no one blinks an eye. Killing is also apparently okay if no one finds out about it.

[KingOfHearts]

This episode borrows a lot from other works. Merlin said the Dark One "killed" Nimue, much like how Obi-Wan said Darth Vader "killed" Anakin. Also, Arthur is definitely Ben from Lost and Merlin is Jacob. I wanted him to kill him just like Ben did. "What about me?" ... "What about you?" ... then stab with Excalibur.

Edited September 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, Curio said:

But this isn't Bandit!Snow yet. This is Mary Margaret. Apparently they're two separate entities, much like Regina and the Evil Queen, and Mary Margaret has to flip a light switch in order to become badass Snow again.

I was thinking about this, and the idea of Mary Margaret and Bandit!Snow being separate entities is actually more valid than the idea of Regina and the Evil Queen being separate. Mary Margaret was a false persona created by Regina, that Snow lived under for 28 years, with no knowledge of her true self. I'm not sure exactly how old Snow is supposed to be, but I think she's supposed to be about the same age as Emma (minus the curse years), so she spent nearly half her life as Mary Margaret. She has that separate persona and the memories that go with it inside her, and she has to overcome that to find her true self again. Her instincts can probably go in two separate directions until she manages to train herself to react like Snow. Meanwhile, Regina was the one who made all the decisions that turned her into the Evil Queen, and she was always aware of who she was, so there's no way to separate the two.

But that still doesn't explain how anyone fell for the obviously fake Zelena crying trick and allowed herself to be overcome by an unarmed woman when she was armed.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Mary Margaret was a false persona created by Regina, that Snow lived under for 28 years, with no knowledge of her true self. I'm not sure exactly how old Snow is supposed to be, but I think she's supposed to be about the same age as Emma (minus the curse years), so she spent nearly half her life as Mary Margaret.

Thing is - cursed Mary Margaret was more badass than Mary Margaret later. She knocked out Jefferson with a freaking croquet mallet. So really, you could split Snow into three different people - Bandit Snow, Cursed MM, and Babymaker MM.

[Shanna Marie]

45 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Thing is - cursed Mary Margaret was more badass than Mary Margaret later. She knocked out Jefferson with a freaking croquet mallet. So really, you could split Snow into three different people - Bandit Snow, Cursed MM, and Babymaker MM.

I think I'll take this to the Snow thread, since we're beyond the scope of this episode and spoilers for later episodes may ensue.

[Shanna Marie]

This one was hard to rewatch.

There's the "you had one job!" Idiot Plotting issue with Snow managing to lose the thing they need and create a crisis by being a total moron and falling for Zelena's scheme -- and being so easily knocked out and overtaken when she was armed by an unarmed woman.

There's Arthur's degree of evil, which I don't think the show adequately explained. If he was good, pure, noble, etc., enough to draw Excalibur from the stone, how did he go so evil so easily just (apparently) because the sword was broken? I feel like we missed a few episodes somewhere along the way.

And then there's the fact that the greatest evil that ever eviled was born from someone killing a mass murderer while the greatest wizard ever just stood around passively. And, of course, she went straight to full-blown evil, not even the slightly dark and moderately tempted mode Emma started with. This show, y'all.

I found it rather amusing that pre-Dark One Nimue looked a lot like Meghan Markle. Similar skin tone and freckles, similar facial structure, even similar hair. Was this actress cast in any of the TV movies about the royal romance? Anyway, I found myself picturing the Duchess of Sussex ripping out hearts.

The kid playing the young Apprentice was adorable.

I did like Emma's big moment of truth. It's just a pity it was buried in such a mess and then so rapidly negated.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

And then there's the fact that the greatest evil that ever eviled was born from someone killing a mass murderer while the greatest wizard ever just stood around passively. And, of course, she went straight to full-blown evil, not even the slightly dark and moderately tempted mode Emma started with. This show, y'all.

This! This never made any sense to me. So the first Dark One became the Dark One because she murdered a mass murderer? While Merlin stood around and did nothing but he's the greatest wizard ever? Why is it such a bad thing in this show to kill mass murderer? Why is it such a good thing to do absolutely nothing?  

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking more on the Dark One origins ...

So, Merlin's buddy drank from the cup because he was dying of thirst but went poof into a cloud of black dust because he was unworthy/didn't say "please" and "thank you"/wasn't chosen by the gods/whatever.

But Nimue had been scheming ever since she learned about the Grail, immortality, and power to drink from it and become immortal and get power she could use to avenge her people. She went behind Merlin's back to drink from it. Why did she not go poof into a cloud of dust? Surely drinking from the cup in order to become immortal and get power was even more unworthy than drinking because of dying of thirst, and there was no indication that she said "please" or said any kind of prayer. Instead, she gets all the Grail power and immortality even though she instantly goes evil and turns into a full-on scaly Dark One for killing a mass murderer.

It's the same kind of inconsistency we see with Excalibur. Kay goes poof in a cloud of black dust because apparently he's unworthy, but Arthur manages to draw the sword even though he seems to be counting on it to give him glory, power, and status, and even though he's the kind of person who is instantly disappointed that the broken sword won't give him the glory he'd hoped it would give him, and he rather quickly dissolves into obsession with completing the blade so that he'll get glory and power. And we see from the fact that Rumple qualifies to draw it because his heart is emptied of everything and he's done one good thing that it's not just about destiny or the fact that Arthur is the rightful king but is some kind of measure of worth. (And they seem to not be using the fact from the legends that Arthur really was the rightful king because he was the son of the king. Here, he's some random stableboy with a Destiny, for Reasons.)

[Camera One]

Yes, it's things like that which makes it hard to really buy the story since it is just not thought through.  Part of it is their disregard of redshirts.  A&E would say no one is supposed to give Sir Kay or the slave who was running with Merlin another thought.  

At the time, I thought they would eventually explain who created the Holy Grail.  

Spoiler

After all, the next arc was about gods.  Heck, they could have made the Holy Grail machinations part of a dispute between Zeus and Hades, but it seems like the Writers weren't even interested in the various Gods, just in Hades and his bike ride with Zelena.

It's hard to know what's intentional or not.  Was it significant both Percival and Nimue were the survivors of massacres?  

As mentioned above, the path/criteria for being a "hero" was very different for Rumple, Arthur and Dark Swan.  

Edited April 27, 2019 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

Oh good, the true star of this show: victim blaming! Look, you can make an argument that killing someone who cant fight back is a bad thing, but considering jails dont apparent exist in this universe, your only options to deal with all of these marauding murdering psychopaths is either A. Kill them or B. Wring your hands ineffectually. And of course Nimue is instantly evil as soon as she kills the guy, no moral ambiguity in this shows dojo! Of course, killing someone trying to hurt an important person (named Regina) is a ok, but killing a known psychopath who slaughtered your family and friends? Instant evil! Just get over losing everyone you ever loved, it wasnt THAT big of a deal! Its not like your mom was mean to you or manipulated a kid to tell a secret! And if you dont instantly get over it and offer kindness and mercy to the unrepentant killer, than YOUR the real monster!

I know that trying to understand the world building in this show is basically impossible, but it does kind of bug me that this land, despite being hundreds of years apart, all basically looks to be at the same level technologically and culturally. Everything from Merlin drinking the cup and making the desert green to when he met Nimue to when when she became the dark one to when Arthur was a kid to when Arthur used magic to build a castle, all basically looks like it could all be in the same village, maybe a couple of days apart from each other. Oh, right, this is a "realm of story" that is constantly in some kind of time bubble that never changes the era or whatever the fuck. Arthur needed evil magic to just find a damn change of clothes I guess. 

I really expected to find out who created the Holy Grail, and what its deal actually was. Merlin had to kneel and pray for permission and theres a big freaking cross on it, which is all very Christian imadgry, but it was apparently created by "the gods" whoever they are, but who actually was it, and to what end? 

Spoiler

What an idiot I was, actually expecting answers!

Edited April 29, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Shanna Marie]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh, right, this is a "realm of story" that is constantly in some kind of time bubble that never changes the era or whatever the fuck.

And yet the people from the Enchanted Forest, which must be in walking distance, given the proximity to the Dark One vault, dress a few centuries later than the Camelot people do (which is jarring when Hook is dressed pretty much like always is surrounded by people in medieval attire). And I guess the whole area was one vast desert a thousand years ago and changed to forest because of Merlin?

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Merlin had to kneel and pray for permission

Did Nimue ask for permission before drinking? Is that why she didn't go poof, even though she was planning to use the power to get revenge and eternal life, even before she drank it? I don't think that occurred to the writers.