S09.E07: The Spock Resonance

[DrSpaceman73]

I liked this episode. Showing Sheldon being a real person actually deserving of a little empathy is a nice thing.

And it was a creative way for Penny and Leonard to find out about the ring he had for Amy.

If I was Bernadette, I would just tell Howard show me you can grow up and stop with the Peter Pan syndrome, acting like a child in his boyhood home even after his mother has died (won't redo the very outdated house, plays video games all day, does little to help out) and then you would consider having a baby. Having a baby as the incentive to grow up, which is basically what he seemed to say he needed, is not a good situation. Grow up first and then consider having a child.

And they seriously need to find a story for Raj. He just hangs around Howard all the time. I read that his girlfriend is now considered a "regular" on the show, yet we never see her. How many times has she been on this season? ANd have they had any significant storylines with them together lately?

[DrSpaceman73]

Oh and there have been sitcoms where the woman never has kids. It was the entire basis for How I met your mother, essentially. Ted loved Robin, he wanted kids and she didn't.

How they SORT OF hedged on that later on by writing in a story where she finds out she CAN'T physically have kids, so its not like she had a choice, though that sort of Hollywood writing ignores the fact hardly anyone in this day and age has no options in having kids, or giving birth I should say. As long as you have a uterus, you can always try, its just may not work. And you can always adopt. Or use a surrogate.

But anyway, on How I met Your Mother, it was part of the very basis of the show's story.

[ElderPrice]

Bernadette and Howard already had the kids conversation several seasons ago. She didn't want children because she spent most of her teenage life caring for her siblings and she'd had enough of kids. They decided that since she made more money than Howard, she would be willing to have a baby if Howard stayed home and tended it,  which he happily agreed to. Why are they revisiting the issue as if they never had this conversation?

[Homily]

I wouldn't say he happily agreed to it.  My recollection of that episode was that he wasn't at all happy about it at all.  They didn't really discuss it but it was more the expression on his face than anything else that said to me  he was thinking "oh crap".  He wanted to be a dad but he didn't want to do the drudge work involved in child care anymore than Bernadette did.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Homily

[CherryAmes]

That's how I remember it as well.  It's not one of my favourite episodes and I haven't seen it in eternal re-run land lately but my memory of that scene where Bernadette proposes that Howard be the one to take care of the kids was that Howard looked horrified at the idea!  I thought that was why the whole subject seemed to get dropped (well that and the writers had other fish to fry :) ).  But it did make sense to his character that he would have expected Bernadette to do everything for the children just as she seems to do everything for him.  He may have smartened up a very little in recent years but when that episode aired Howard was still at the point where he expected Bernadette to treat him exactly the same way his mother had.  Him stepping up and being a full-time parent was the last thing he wanted to do when he wasn't even interested in being a fully independent and functioning adult and husband.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

They didn't really discuss it but it was more the expression on his face than anything else that said to me  he was thinking "oh crap".  He wanted to be a dad but he didn't want to do the drudge work involved in child care anymore than Bernadette did.

Howard was probably more bothered by the idea of quitting the job he enjoys, lets him play around with side projects of his own, and gives him accomplishments he can brag about.

 

 

I liked how Penny pointed out to him that he does have feelings.  He is human after all!

So did Spock, who was half human, and he'd occasionally be affected by them or let them show, so I don't know why Sheldon would have expected any better.

[Winston Wolfe]

 

You also don't win the girl by going up to her after a date, where she just kissed the guy and obviously had a good time, and proposing to her.

Maybe it's just me, but Amy hardly ever looks very happy these days.  I think part of it is her missing Sheldon and another part is how insensitive the gang seems to be to her feelings sometimes (see the Tinder episode and the role-playing game from a couple of seasons back).  If you look closely at the kissing scene last night, there was no sign of joy on Amy's part.  It seemed rather perfunctory.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Winston Wolfe

[theatremouse]

Bernadette and Howard already had the kids conversation several seasons ago. She didn't want children because she spent most of her teenage life caring for her siblings and she'd had enough of kids... Why are they revisiting the issue as if they never had this conversation?

I didn't think they played it like they never had this conversation. I think they played it like they and we knew H+B have had that conversation, but Bernadette's dad did not know. So the point was just to bring it up in front of him/her parents, presumably to open the door to rehashing this farther down the line onscreen. Now I'm not saying I like it. In fact I very much do not. But it didn't read to me like the writers forgot they already addressed it; it was an intentional revisiting.

 

If you look closely at the kissing scene last night, there was no sign of joy on Amy's part. It seemed rather perfunctory.

That's because Mayim Bialick, by far, gives the most nuanced performances on this show. Plus it's logical they're both hurting. I mean, it was a long relationship. Even if you genuinely want to get back in the dating pool, you don't get over it that fast. (Although I still find it completely unclear how much time in show universe has passed since the breakup.) Edited November 7, 2015 by theatremouse

[Chit Chat]

So did Spock, who was half human, and he'd occasionally be affected by them or let them show, so I don't know why Sheldon would have expected any better.

 

It's Sheldon.  He takes  things to the extreme!

[CherryAmes]

Finally saw the episode and aside from the damn commercials I thought it was excellent.  I liked both storylines and it was nice to see Wil Wheaton and Bernadette's father.  Speaking of whom I thought it was well done that while he did bring up the subject of grandchildren  he really didn't push things beyond giving his own opinion - and it was interesting that even Bernadette's Dad backs off when she gets mad!  I did think though that they have tiptoed away both from the idea that Bernadette hates children and that Howard would stay home with them if they did have them.  The issue did seem to be that Bernadette doesn't want to be a single parent which is how she felt things were for her mother and how she thinks things would be with Howard as the father.  And I think she's right about that.

[LADreamr]

That's how I remember it as well.  It's not one of my favourite episodes and I haven't seen it in eternal re-run land lately but my memory of that scene where Bernadette proposes that Howard be the one to take care of the kids was that Howard looked horrified at the idea!

Not only that, he pulled out the condoms!

[Driad]

 

Bernadette already has a child: Howard.  I agree with Bernadette that she has no obligation to add another child to the family.  If Howard takes the responsibilities of an adult in their partnership, maybe Bernadette will be willing to discuss it.  Bernadette's parents cannot control what B & H do.  Anyway they have other children who may supply grandchildren.

[The Kings Foot]

I watched the show at the cbs.com site, and the time on the show was 18:42 -- so, over one-third commercials in the slot.  And that time includes the theme song and credits, so really more like a 17-minute show.  Yikes. 

 

 

I think that the show (and I think all network sitcoms) are the same 22 minutes. They have an extra commercial by having the episode run for an extra minute-7:31 end time in Chicago according to my dvr. Has it really gotten shorter?

 

As JJJ said the shows have gotten shorter. They used to be 22 mins and are now under 19 mins.  Even last year they were closer to 20 mins. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by The Kings Foot

[The Kings Foot]

Everyone wants the show to be hysterical every episode...it can't. But I do miss laughing out loud while watching.

Comedies, when on the air for as long as this show has been on, need to grow, just as the characters need to grow.  

 

Agreed.  This wasnt a funny episode but it was needed to for the show to get new story lines in place. 

 

Also people forget the other Chuck Lorre show on the air now is Mom. Which is more drama than comedy. 

The first thing Sheldon needs to do is develop some self-awareness and realize what a lousy boyfriend he was to Amy and how he's acting like a deranged ex, practically stalking her.  If he can setttle down that way, then he can talk to her about his feelings.

 

Oh brother.  Stalking ? Deranged ?   Pffft.

[CherryAmes]

Anyway they have other children who may supply grandchildren.

 

That reminds me, we hear a lot about how Bernadette was the eldest of a big family but as far as I can recall none of her siblings live at home anymore.  How much younger than her could those kids have been if they are all out on their own and we never hear about them?  I know Bernadette's back story isn't important to the grand scheme of things but when they make it sound like she hates kids because she already raised a houseful of them I'd expect some mention of that houseful of kids once in awhile!

[jjj]

I believe the only sibling we have ever seen is Sheldon's twin sister -- so there are a lot of siblings out there the show could bring in occasionally to add some flavor, like Christine Baranski did a couple of times.  (There was also Howard's phantom half-brother, but that is not a real relationship, just blood relationship.)  Bernadette's family might provide some perspective on why she is so reluctant to have children (not that she needs to explain anything!  just that it would be a interesting back story).  And I'd love to see if Leonard's brother and sister are like his mother or more like him. 

One thing that is bugging me is that Leonard and Penny are not acting at all like a newly-married couple -- more like they happen to be having lunch together.  Aside from the roommate issue, you'd think they would be starting to build a life together, but just are hanging with the gang.  At least Bernadette is showing she understands she needs to create a home for her married life.  I'm not talking about a place, but the concept of the new identity of a joint life.

 

ETA:  and Priya -- how could I forget her!  And we did get to meet a cousin of Raj (an attorney, a really bad one).

Edited November 7, 2015 by jjj

[vavera4ka]

And in my will i will Will back to Will.

Will Will want it?
Will won't.

 

i laughed at this so hard i had to rewind cause i missed the next scene 

[Ouisch]

It's interesting how birth order can change a person's perspective on certain things....for example, my Mom is the second oldest of 10 children, and my Dad was the youngest of 10 kids. Most of Mom's childhood memories are changing diapers, washing diapers (this was in the pre-disposable era, natch), hanging diapers up to dry, etc. My Dad, on the other hand, has memories of his older brothers taking him to the movies on Saturdays and buying him ice cream and his oldest sister cooking his favorite meals. My Mom swore she'd never had kids when she got married, my Dad always wanted a huge family. They ended up having three, and both later said that that was more than enough.

 

The writers are probably going to have to do something along the lines of Howard and Bernadette babysitting someone's infant for a weekend, and then Bernie has to work or something and Howard is left alone to care for the baby. He will have an epiphany that there is more to fatherhood than watching Star Trek with a kid and flying kites with him and stop pressuring Bernie to get pregnant.

 

As for Sheldon, this is a great opportunity to bring back the ghost of Professor Proton - he could show Sheldon what Amy's life would be like if she married some Ideal Guy. Sheldon would see Ideal Guy come home from work and ask Amy all about her day and then praise her cooking during dinner, and offer to do the dishes because she'd already worked so hard....   and then he'd (hopefully) realize that he needed to be more thoughtful if he ever got a second chance with Amy. He wouldn't reform overnight, but wackiness could ensue as he awkwardly tried to be more Ideal. ("May I say that you look very nice today, Amy? Your new pine tar shampoo has thoroughly removed those unsightly scales from your scalp.")

[caligirl50]

I've posted this before but Sean Murray from NCIS looks like Jim Parsons with blonde hair. He should come on as Sheldon's brother, who we have never seen.  CBS should love that crossover......and I would think it would be fun for Sean.

[MaryMitch]

It's interesting how birth order can change a person's perspective on certain things....for example, my Mom is the second oldest of 10 children, and my Dad was the youngest of 10 kids. Most of Mom's childhood memories are changing diapers, washing diapers (this was in the pre-disposable era, natch), hanging diapers up to dry, etc. My Dad, on the other hand, has memories of his older brothers taking him to the movies on Saturdays and buying him ice cream and his oldest sister cooking his favorite meals. My Mom swore she'd never had kids when she got married, my Dad always wanted a huge family. They ended up having three, and both later said that that was more than enough.

That's pretty interesting. I have 3 younger sibs and I remember being astonished that one of my friends didn't know how to change a diaper, because I was changing diapers when I was 6 or 7.

 

Come to think, of the 5 kids in my family, the oldest 2 have no kids.

 

As for Sheldon, this is a great opportunity to bring back the ghost of Professor Proton - he could show Sheldon what Amy's life would be like if she married some Ideal Guy. Sheldon would see Ideal Guy come home from work and ask Amy all about her day and then praise her cooking during dinner, and offer to do the dishes because she'd already worked so hard.... and then he'd (hopefully) realize that he needed to be more thoughtful if he ever got a second chance with Amy. He wouldn't reform overnight, but wackiness could ensue as he awkwardly tried to be more Ideal. ("May I say that you look very nice today, Amy? Your new pine tar shampoo has thoroughly removed those unsightly scales from your scalp.")

That's as good a reason to bring back Professor Proton as I can think of!

[UsernameFatigue]

And in my will i will Will back to Will.

Will Will want it?

Will won't.

i laughed at this so hard i had to rewind cause i missed the next scene

 

 

I thought that was hilarious too. My other laugh out loud scene was when Sheldon was describing how his great great (I think?) grandmother lost her wedding ring and then got it back again. Sheldon's lack of political correctness is one of my favourite things on the show. In fact I was thinking that while it doesn't happen every epi, I am amazed that after all these years this show frequently has scenes that make me laugh out loud. Very few sitcoms do that for me these days.

 

Regarding the Bernadette thing, I don't remember her talking about having a bunch of sibs (though obviously it must be true as many do remember that) but I thought she said in the epi way back when she and Howard discussed kids that her mother had a daycare in their basement so there were always lots of kids around which she did not like. I also find it interesting that many people assume that if someone does not want kids it has to do with their upbringing. I had amazing parents and a wonderful childhood but I knew as young as nine (maybe younger but I remember a specific event at nine when I said I did not want kids) that I did not want to have children when I grew up. I never changed my mind even though pretty much everyone said I would. I am now 58 and have never regretted not having children.

[sinkwriter]

 

For a minute I thought it would turn out that the napkin was fake. When Penny didn't want to talk about it. That would have ruined one of the best moments in this shows history. I was so happy it just led to the ring.

 

I was SO afraid they were going to have Leonard Nimoy's son say, 'That's not my dad's handwriting' and ruin my most favorite moment ever. I actually yelled at my TV: "Don't you ruin this!" LOL. I'm so glad they didn't go there. I would have been done with the show. The end.

 

 

LADreamr - I think Sheldon doesn't want anyone else to have Amy but he doesn't want anything to change.  At least that is what the writers have shown to us thus far.

 

I think that was my take as well. I felt bad for Sheldon in the final scene, but his idea of running over to ask her to marry him and they'll just "have their relationship back" (or however he worded it) was a ridiculous and insulting one. That kind of mindset would show Amy nothing about him realizing why she was so upset with him. It would only show that he thinks this (proposing) is how to fix it. 

 

So I hope that they continue to show Sheldon learning, bit by bit, like he started to with his Spock realization in this episode, and show him and Amy make genuine progress. Otherwise, I don't want them to get back together.

[MissLucas]

I wasn't surprised that they brought back the topic of children for Howard and Bernadette. But I was surprised that they made Raj into the audience's voice by saying out loud that Bernadette already has a child. I also liked Bernadette telling her father that what he did does not count as rising children. I think the basic problem is not so much that Bernadette does not want to have children (she already agreed back in the episode when it was first discussed) but rather under what conditions that she is willing to go along with the plan. Even if Howard does not want to become a stay-at-home Dad he needs to step up his game and show her that he's willing to share not just the fun but also the burden. Something he hasn't done so far when it comes to simple house-keeping (i.e. the reference to her cleaning the house).

[Spartan Girl]

I felt bad for Sheldon in the final scene, but his idea of running over to ask her to marry him and they'll just "have their relationship back" (or however he worded it) was a ridiculous and insulting one. That kind of mindset would show Amy nothing about him realizing why she was so upset with him. It would only show that he thinks this (proposing) is how to fix it. 

 

So I hope that they continue to show Sheldon learning, bit by bit, like he started to with his Spock realization in this episode, and show him and Amy make genuine progress. Otherwise, I don't want them to get back together.

I don't think Sheldon was looking for a quick fix as much as he was seeking closure to the breakup. It sounded like if she said yes, fine, but if not, he could finally be able to put it behind him with nothing left unresolved. That's another reason why I think walking away was a big step for him: not only because he didn't want to mess up her date, but also because he realized that he wouldn't be able to get that kind of closure. And this was coming from the guy that actually called the creator of a cancelled shoe he liked just because he was going crazy from not knowing what happened.

[DarkRaichu]

So Amy liked them tall ;)

[kat165]

I wasn't surprised to hear Raj say what he said to B & H. He's taken that position with them before. When his apt was being fumigated he had to stay at their place & he ended up interferring in their relationship with remarks like, "Howard, Bernadette is tired when she comes home from work. Try asking her how was her day." And then he gave some advice to Bernie about Howard. Not that I can remember what he said, but he said something. They ended up throwing him (and he had to go stay with Sheldon & Leonard) because they ended up fighting and blaming it on Raj.

 

Where he also got thrown out. "Pish on your issues."

 

It was good episode. :)

Edited November 10, 2015 by kat165

[whatsatool]

Penny is one the best straight men in the business and Bernadette is always funny but Amy is rarely funny.

[Hanahope]

Why are they emphasizing Howard quitting his job and staying home with the kid? That is rediculous. There is a thing called nanny's, daycare, etc.... It's not 1950. Jeez.

 

 

Howard is left alone to care for the baby. He will have an epiphany that there is more to fatherhood than watching Star Trek with a kid and flying kites with him and stop pressuring Bernie to get pregnant.

 

 

Its true that Howard doesn't have to quit his job, the two can use day care.  But for 90% of women, they are still the ones that end up doing 75% or more of child care, i.e. taking the baby/kids to the doctor, taking them to/picking them up from daycare, leaving work early because the day care called because your kid is sick, staying home with sick child, attending school events that occur during the day/school/work hours, taking the kids/picking them up from school (at least when they are young), shopping for the kids (clothes, toys, etc.).

 

Until Howard has shown that he's willing to really do 50% (or more) of these duties and not just "be the fun dad", then Bernadette is well within her rights to say "no kids".

[ari333]

I'm going to disagree with most posters here:  I don't think Sheldon needs to move on. He tells us flat out that he's spent his life trying to live without feelings. It took him years to trust Amy enough to let her into his heart and now that he has, it's time for him to grow up enough to risk rejection in pursuit of what he loves. So no, I don't think he needs to find another girl.  I think he needs to find the courage to cope with a situation that is all about feelings and nothing else, and to tell Amy how deeply he does feel for her.

 

THIS^^^

FINALLY !

Yes, you said it better than I was trying to say it. :)

Penny is one the best straight men in the business and Bernadette is always funny but Amy is rarely funny.

 

Aww I find Amy hilarious!

[caligirl50]

Me too.

[Hecate7]

Didn't she also say that she had to help with her siblings and that she didn't enjoy wiping their snotty noses?   Howard told Raj & Leonard at that time that the issue was a deal breaker for him.  Bernadette offered the solution of him staying home with the kids so she could enjoy working.  Howard knew what he was getting into before he married her.  At least he hasn't been pressuring her about it, seeing as how it wasn't mentioned until her Dad brought it up.  Her parents need to back off of the issue.  I hate when parents pressure their kids to give them grandchildren.  

 

 

Yeah, if the truth were known, Howard doesn't want kids either. He wants to go on being a kid himself. He doesn't know how to be a father, and has a fantasy about what it should be like that maybe shouldn't be disrupted by real fatherhood.