S06.E04: Here's Not Here

[Mimiray802]

So boring! It made me hate Morgan even more. Damn you walking dead for turning a character I once liked into another Lori/Andrea. The whole "all life is precious" crap is annoying. I'm sure life was very precious for all the people that died as a direct/indirect result of Morgan's negligence.

[Mya Stone]

Having John Carroll Lynch play a zen "all life is precious" forensic psychologist when for the last year I've seen him play murderous clowns (on American Horror Story) was amusing.

Honestly, these two actors were phenomenal. I've had an entire week to dwell on the Glenn Situation and this episode was fantastic...but I can't help but think it would have been better placed elsewhere.

[BellyLaughter]

I find it fascinating that they feel the need to manipulate the audience with the "is he/isn't he" BS - that usually something you do if you are struggling with ratings.....this can only backfire on them....we have to wait HOW long to find out about Glenn??? Whatever TPTB, wake me up when it's time.

Taking Steve Yeun out of be opening credits is either a massive f**k up or blatant manipulation....either way I'm not impressed!

Edited November 2, 2015 by BellyLaughter

[WordsWordsWords]

I'm one of the minority who enjoyed this episode. Insight into what made our current version of Morgan tick. There were a few things I'd have done differently, of course, and I'm not sure the episode used all 90 of those minutes as well as possible, but I liked the episode on the whole.

 

Yes, Morgan, leaving a half-crazed, dying Wolf in the basement -- with only the outer door locked -- is an excellent idea. Said no one. Ever. This is a decision that's going to come back to bite Morgan in the rump. Not literally, I hope.

 

The actors truly killed their roles. They were brilliant.

[raven]

 

this can only backfire on them

I don't think so, WD has been renewed for a 7th season.

[Mimiray802]

PS was I the only one who thought Dr. Phil was going to popup before they showed Eastman's face. ( I guess I was close enough)

[ghoulina]

Morgan's Psychiatrist missed something that undergrad psych majors learn: putting a killer to death is NOT supposed to make you feel better. It's to prevent further murders.

 

Right? It's not about you! That's my whole issue with Morgan continually sparing Wolves. It could get other, more "precious" people killed. Damn.

[candall]

You know it's a bad episode when you're pressing your work clothes for the week instead of watching intently. I'm going to look so great this week!

 

 

So much happened that 90 minutes!

 

I won 3 Trivia Crack random challenges, did some dishes, found a place to donate all the Halloween candy my kids agreed to donate, helped my sister-in-law convert Facebook back to English after it switched to Mandarin.

 

And Tabitha died and Morgan made more decisions that proved to be not super duper.

Ha, I was at least TWD-relevant.  I was learning about bo-staff (Morgan's weapon) from google and RiverHeightsNancy.  It's so interesting.

 

As for the show, all I can think is how much those two hippie kids, with one crutch and no chicken noodle, would have appreciated that nice fortified cabin and all those fresh tomatoes.  JCL's last little speech was about the loneliness of being there on his own. Tell him, Morgan!  Oh, yeah, I ran into two desperate people, one of them injured, about half an hour ago on the trail. . . Care for some soup before you shoot yourself in the head?

[HalcyonDays]

Why, WHY'D they kill Tabitha. Stop killing the animals, show! First the horses, then some GSD's, then the goat. Poor baby.

 

I was actually hoping through the episode that Morgan would have a "breakthrough" and teach Eastman how to make good cheese. Don't ask.

 

This episode did not make me like Morgan any better.  He can be walker food for all I care. He makes bad decisions and does not learn.

 

Yeah, but everyone on this show makes bad decisions. It's like required plot points of the show.
 

Meanwhile this f!!!ing show hasn't even mourned an important character's death or acknowledged that it actually happened.

 

Shush you...Glenn's not dead (yet.....)

[BellyLaughter]

I don't think so, WD has been renewed for a 7th season.

True but still a curious M.O - there's no need for it - they have a captive audience (as illustrated by the number who sat through tonight's episode and will be back again next week)

[magpye29]

I think it was a mistake to have this slow-paced episode when the clocks went back an hour--I'm just too tired to appreciate this one tonight.

[mmecorday]

I knew the minute that Eastman perfected goat cheese that Tabitha was a goner. This show hates animals!

[Lila82]

Was the "Save terrapins" shirt a call back to the tortoise's unfortunate demise?

 

 

Maybe Eastman is a UMD alum?  Fear the turtle, indeed.

 

My only takeaway from this episode was a clunky, extended metaphor of wolves in sheep's clothing.  We get it.  Really, we get it.  Morgan is going to bring doom upon them all.  Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

But hey - the long, slow sequences of Morgan staring moodily wildflower fields were a welcome break from the long, slow sequences of Rick trying to string a sentence together.  I'll call it progress.

[TexasChic]

Lol, re: Chris Hardwick re: the goat being a typical actor doing mounds of blow in it's trailer.

[molshoop]

It was 90 minutes because of two trailers and endless promos for other shows along with
the usual excess of adverts. Other than those constant interruptions, I really enjoyed it.

 

But I did have a problem with a psychiatrist working exclusively with prisoners and only diagnosing
one as a psychopath.

[whyjen8]

Agree with so many of you that the episode was only watchable because of the acting but Lennie James lost some credibility with me on Talking Dead.  No way have we had 5 days of 106 degree weather EVER in Georgia much less in a row.

 

So frustrating that Morgan is keeping the wolf alive.  I'm clinging to the hope that when he escapes he will kill father peepee and Porch Dick Jr.  

[HalcyonDays]

I find it fascinating that they feel the need to manipulate the audience with the "is he/isn't he" BS - that usually something you do if you are struggling with ratings.....this can only backfire on them....we have to wait HOW long to find out about Glenn??? Whatever TPTB, wake me up when it's time.

Taking Steve Yeun out of be opening credits is either a massive f**k up or blatant manipulation....either way I'm not impressed!

 

Wait, whut? His name wasn't in the credits.....?? Oh show....

 

___________________

 

ETA: GUYS AND GALS! Talking Dead Talk in the Talking Dead THREAD!! Thread IZ HERE

[riverheightsnancy]

I say this as a person who teaches psychology, worked in a psychiatric facility, and is a licensed provider. When a person has reached a point that they no longer fall back on their training and keep talking about how "charming" a serial killer is, you are no longer competent to perform your job. Many people cannot work with those clients forever because you get sucked into their "game" and you have no perspective anymore. They are highly, highly manipulative and one must always be on their guard with this population.  Work with relatively normal functioning clients if you want to have a zen approach. The prison population is generally not the type of population to do this "Zen" stuff with. Some of these people are much too damaged to be fixed and some don't want to be. Truly, not every person has something good inside. We would like to think that, but it may not be true. This is what we learn in our training. We don't own this stuff. We don't take it home. Just based on what Eastman said, he was already off the rails even before he made the error regarding this prisoner.  Look at what happened in that prison in upstate NY, where prisoners broke out and got a sewing instructor to help them. Some of these prisoners are very manipulative and will use a person (even a psychiatrist) if they can find an opening or weakness. 

[TexasChic]

Wait, whut? His name wasn't in the credits.....Oh show....

 

___________________

 

ETA: GUYS AND GALS! Talking Dead Talk in the Talking Dead THREAD!! Thread IZ HERE

Sorry, my bad.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I apologize Morgan, but omg was this '90' minutes so bleeping boring.  Maybe I'll be able to appreciate it some more after time passes and can think on it better.... but after the almost non-stop 120 MPH of the first 3 weeks, to all of a sudden, this week we're in a shit beater that the engine won't even turn over, let alone start.

 

Why oh why are people continually portrayed to be so damned stupid as to jump in front of someone else, when the thing to do is just get by/around the person and knock the walker back, to better kill it, or just kill it right off?  Other than for storytelling purposes, Eastman didn't need to get bit there.  And this from a guy who knows all this akido and moves?  Dumb, dumb, dumb writing.

 

I will give the writers credit for surprising me a bit - I expected Morgan to come across the walker-ified Eastman eating poor Tabitha.  [didn't know it was the same day that Morgan went nutso, somewhat, again and then ran back to Eastman's after re-finding his 'sanity' after saving the two walker-baits]

 

I don't know whether to be extremely impressed with Morgan's situational awareness (did something to prevent it, that wasn't shown), or laugh at the utter ridiculousness of the wrting, that he could start numerous fires in the middle of a forest - on top of all that dried leaves/grass/kindling, too boot! - and never once did that fire ever spread out to become a huge all-consuming conflagration like logic would suggest it should.

 

If I had to put really deep thought into all of it.... I don't know who was more nuts - Morgan (pre-Eastman) or Eastman.  You're telling me that Cheesemaker just decided, out of nowhere, that "all life is precious", after everything he went through - and the way the world is now.  I don't call that a 'philosophy'; I think that is more one kind of insanity employed to offset the other kind(s) of insanity.  Or at least fighting too hard to "be the right kind of normal".

Edited November 2, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ghoulina]

Wait, whut? His name wasn't in the credits.....Oh show....

 

Yea, given my DVR problems, I missed that. But that's really effed up. I'm of the belief that if a character dies on a show, they should get to remain in the credits through the rest of the season. That's just how I feel. Not saying Glenn is definitively dead, but either way it's messed up.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Hopefully Morgan at least hung onto the book.

 

 

As of Morgan's visit to the church, he does.

 

[truelovekiss]

Tune in next week to see a special 90-minute episode where we learn how Deanna first met Reg and became such an incompetent leader!

Looking forward to more backstories! Maybe the week after we can watch 90 minutes of Eugene playing Call of Duty.

[Disraeli Ears]

How did Eastman never have a horde walk through his camp? It seems also absurd knowing about the wolves that they never stumbled across Eastman and his bleeting Tabitha.

 

 

Remember, Eastman was way back in Georgia. We first ran into the "Wolves" and their chaos in Noah's old neighborhood in Richmond, Va.

 

So I guess my SO and I are some of the few people who liked this episode? And he hated episodes like Slabtown! Lennie James and John Carroll Lynch were awesome and their interplay kept me interested. It was funny because SO and I were all: "Where have we seen that guy before?" Turns out, I had just seen JCL in American Horror Story this past week...ha!

 

And RIP, Tabitha - dammit show! Quit killing cute little animals!

[ghoulina]

I want a 90 minute Judith Solo cup concert.

[HalcyonDays]

Yea, given my DVR problems, I missed that. But that's really effed up. I'm of the belief that if a character dies on a show, they should get to remain in the credits through the rest of the season. That's just how I feel. Not saying Glenn is definitively dead, but either way it's messed up.

 

Yeah, that's why I was really surprised about that - usually the credits stay that way for the rest of the season. I have a conspiracy theory that I'll throw elsewhere.

 

I don't know whether to be extremely impressed Morgan's situational awareness (did something to prevent it, that wasn't shown), or laugh at the utter ridiculousness of the wrting, that he could start numerous fires in the middle of a forest - on top of all that dried leaves/grass/kindling, too boot! - and never once did that fire ever spread out to become a huge all-consuming conflagration like logic would suggest it should.

 

 

Excellent point. I thought that too, that the fires would draw Walkers and Humans to Morgan - not what he wanted, but I guess his mission to "Clear" would be served by drawing others to him.

 

Interestingly, we've had Morgan, The Governor, Michonne, Sasha, Abraham and Rick all lose their minds (aka PTSD) for a bit, then manage to come back. Maybe even Tyresse. I do like that they show some people are going to have problems coping. Problem is what message do they learn once they break out of their traumatic fugue state?

 

Oh, and Lennie James was very adept at twirling that stick around. Nicely done - wonder how long he had to practice for.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

RE: the very end of the episode... was that Rick calling out for someone to open the gates?  I couldn't quite tell.

[nodorothyparker]

The acting and cinematography were of course absolutely gorgeous. And as much as I'm generally not a fan of creating more work for yourself when so much of the world has devolved to manual labor, there was something quietly beautiful about taking the time to properly bury the walkers and acknowledge that they had once been somebody. I love when the show includes little moments like that. Still didn't need to be 90 minutes though.

I know this episode was supposed to help us understand Morgan, but what it really underscored was the failure of blanket philosophies unless you plan on living off by yourself in the woods where the consequences of enacting those philosophies affect only you. If someone tells you specifically that they're going to kill the children if you don't kill them and you still let them live because your belief that "life is precious" is more important than your responsibility to those children, whatever happens after that the blood is on your hands.

[truelovekiss]

Taking Steve Yeun out of be opening credits is either a massive f**k up or blatant manipulation....either way I'm not impressed!

I didn't see the credits, but when I hit the "info" button for the episode, Steven Yeun was one of the three actors listed for this episode, like he has been. (Behind Andrew Lincoln and Chandler Riggs) If I remember correctly, after Lori died, Sarah Wayne Callies was removed from that heading on my tv by the next episode. I'm not confident about this though.

[TexasChic]

RE: the very end of the episode... was that Rick calling out for someone to open the gates?  I couldn't quite tell.

My captions said it was Rick.

[mightysparrow]

I think my inexplicable love for Morgan is really due to the actor. God that Lennie James is charming in real life. I think it must be bleeding into the character for me.

 

He really is charming!

[Nashville]

[Lennie] really is charming!

 

Sooooo... Lennie James is a psychopath...?  :>

[Disraeli Ears]

Also, yeah - Steve Yeun was not in the credits. I'm calling SHENANIGANS, show!

[grumpypanda]

The problem with an episode like this is we all knew that Eastman and Tabitha would be dead by the end of the episode so there was no point in getting attached to them.

Anyway, I seriously felt like I was watching The Karate Kid. I was waiting for Eastman to have Morgan paint the fence and wax the car. Total cheese ball city.

Just about everything in this episode was so predictable. It was obvious from the moment we saw Eastman marking the graves and than telling Morgan his story about the wack job that killed his family that Morgan would discover a grave marker with the killer's name on it.

Also, what kind of prisoner tells the person holding him captive that he's going to kill everyone including children if you set him free. Wouldn't it make more sense to agree with whatever your captor says in order to get the hell out of there?

How hard is it to lie? “Sure, Morgn, I think you're right. I really want to change my ways and I think you can help me be a better man. I like cheese and goats, I think we can be great friends someday."

Edited November 2, 2015 by grumpypanda

[truelovekiss]

I guess the writers don't want the audience to trust Morgan, not one bit.

Sigh. 90 minutes, I can't believe it.

Well, goal achieved. If I had to pick someone to have my back in the zombie apocalypse, I would pick baby Judith over Morgan. She seems a lot more reliable.

[Bryce Lynch]

90 minutes on how Morgan became a pacifist moron who gets innocent people killed by refusing to kill evil ones.

The two 90 minute episodes have had about 30 minutes of good television total. The two 60 minute epidsodes wrre 10 times better.

Any more like this one and I will be finding other ways to spend my Sunday nights.

[Boofish]

This episode should have been title Slabtown 2: Nothing To See Here Folks

[HalcyonDays]

Just about everything in this episode was so predictable. It was obvious from the moment we saw Eastman marking the graves and than telling Morgan his story about the wack job that killed his family that Morgan would discover a grave marker with the killer's name on it.

 

Honestly, I was waiting for Morgan to find out that "Eastman" was actually Clayton Dallas Whoever. That's he'd die, Morgan would get his wallet (don't ask why he'd be carrying it) and the name would be the serial killer's. Alas no.

[Whitley Trillbert]

Although tonight's eppy was a disappointment, I love me some Lennie. He deserves a Emmy

[Tippi Blevins]

It just doesn't pay to be a cute animal in the zombie apocalypse. Sigh.

[Rosiejuliemom]

So I guess my SO and I are some of the few people who liked this episode? And he hated episodes like Slabtown! Lennie James and John Carroll Lynch were awesome and their interplay kept me interested.

 

 

No, I liked it. The cinematography was gorgeous and LJ and JCL were fantastic. My only issue is with the placement of the episode within the season. It kind brought the momentum of the first few episodes of the season to a screeching halt. Especially since it was 90 minutes. This show does have a bit of a pacing problem at times and this is just another example. Hopefully, it will fit better in a marathon re-watch. Right now, I'm just impatient to check in with people stuck under dumpsters and in RVs, so I wasn't completely in the mood to spend a super-sized episode on Morgan's backstory.

[grumpypanda]

Honestly, I was waiting for Morgan to find out that "Eastman" was actually Clayton Dallas Whoever. That's he'd die, Morgan would get his wallet (don't ask why he'd be carrying it) and the name would be the serial killer's. Alas no.

Now that would have been an interesting twist. Before Eastman told his story mr.grumpypanda and I had decided that Eastman was a crazy rapist that liked to keep women locked up to torture and rape them. We couldn't figure out why someone would have a jail cell set up in the woods.

I did find the real story interesting though. Watching the person that murdered your entire family starve to death is hard core and the psycho deserved it.

Edited November 2, 2015 by grumpypanda

[truelovekiss]

Also, what kind of prisoner tells the person holding him captive that he's going to kill everyone including children if you set him free. Wouldn't it make more sense to agree with whatever your captor says in order to get the hell out of there?

How hard is it to lie? “Sure, Morgn, I think you're right. I really want to change my ways and I think you can help me be a better man. I like cheese and goats, I think we can be great friends someday."

The sad part is, Morgan would totally believe that. Then if Wolfy wanted to go in for a hug, Morgan would be so ecstatic that for once his "life is precious" horseshit was working out that he would be all in, but then the wolf would have him at his mercy.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

My captions said it was Rick.

 

Wow.  His voice sounded pretty loud and strong after having just gotten bit a while ago!

 

 

I know, I know... allow me to self-inflict it;

[Gentian root]

Milking stool impalement gets walker kill of the week.

And I want such a cabin. Minus the cell.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Gentian root

[minamurray78]

Ok, I guess this episode  was meant for us to understand Morgan's logic, see what his journey was, and how he got to be how he is now.

 

Still, I just don't agree. Not everybody can defend themselves the way he does. How are Carol, Enid or Carl supposed to fight and subdue a crazy maniac weilding a machete at them? I'm afraid guns is the only way for them. Not to mention, they were dozens of wolves attacking Alexandria that day. While Morgan took forever and a day tying one up, there were more townfolk being brutally murdered around him. How does that fit into his "All life is precious" preach? If I have to choose between saving the life of a person who's just minding their own business without hurting anyone, and saving the life of the attacker trying to grind them into the asphalt, so that later I can try to convert them, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to choose the former, and kill the latter (even if I don't like it). He seemed upset at hearing the gunshots that day, as if people weren't firing them in order to save their lives.

 

So, in summation, this episode just didn't do it for me. I was looking foward to rooting for him, but I just can't agree with his MO.

And the last 5 minutes, are you kidding me?

Seriously, why are the writers trying to get us to hate this guy?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I was honestly unsure if Morgan was going to save Tabitha from those two walkers, at first.  Thought he was still in "self-destruct mode" and was going to allow the poor thing to get eaten.

 

But then I was thinking, if still in a DGAF 'place', that's a pretty good way to keep yourself on the Cheesemaker's bad side... serve up his cheese base provider on a platter while sitting around pondering why the inside of this cabin has its own cell block.

[Schmoopy]

Spent 90 minutes like....

 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Spent 90 minutes like....

 

 

^ Awesomely awesome.

All I know is if it takes another 2-3 episodes to get back to Glenn's "fate", there's gonna be some serious rage flowing up in Here - that's not here!

Edited November 2, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Disraeli Ears]

Milking stool impalement gets walker kill of the week.

And I want such a cabin. Minus the cell.

 

My SO and I have recently been perusing listing for cabins and, in the future, we would like one (we live in Colorado). We both noted that Eastman's cabin (sans cell) would be perfect for us. I hope we don't have to keep our goats locked inside, though.

 

Milking stool impalement was great. So my walker of the week was Surprise Bonfire Walker! Woot - here I am! 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Disraeli Ears