S03.E05: Dead Men Tell No Tales (2)

[Free]

And finally, I liked the Cookie Lyon costume.  LOL.

 

I liked that shout out too.

[sinkwriter]

 

The Ichabbie shipping was a little much - as someone who desires it most assidously - it was out of place and seemed added needlessly - now I want some shipping man, but in the Bones episode, it just seemed liked pandering.

 

It's eyerolling to me but I'm not surprised they went there in the Bones script. When I watched the Bones series regularly, before Booth and Brennan got together, the writers got very heavy-handed with near-constant comments about Booth and Brennan and how they should be dating and how almost everyone on the show would say something to Booth and/or Brennan. "So you two must be dating, right?" "How long have you two been together?" "You're not together?? No way!" They even had a suspect who had just been handcuffed and was being transported into custody make a comment. The dude was a teenager who had murdered someone by pushing her into a giant oven and letting her die a horrible death being cooked/burned alive. You really think a psychopathic teenager would be thinking about whether or not the two cops/FBI agents who arrested him were dating or compatible in any way? Seriously?

 

It got so bad I wanted to smack the writers and showrunners for beating all of us over the head with the message that Booth and Brennan should get together. WE KNOW! We watch the show! You don't need to tell us! You need to SHOW us that they're getting closer in their partnership, not tell us by having every character comment on how they LOOK like they're already together.

 

Ugh. It's something that drove me nuts about the show.

Edited October 31, 2015 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

 

This is the first episode of Bones I have ever seen, and I thought it was absolutely dreadful.  I don't watch regular procedurals like NCIS, CSI, etc., and I thought it was horrible.  Every line of dialogue was such obnoxious exposition, and I also found the line delivery to be exceptionally bad.

 

I wish you could watch some of my favorite Bones episodes. Sadly, they're from the first two seasons of the show and the show is now on its 11th season, which should tell you something about the direction I feel the show has gone in more recent years (i.e., not as good as it used to be).

 

If you watch this week's episode and then watch an episode like Season 2's "Aliens in a Spaceship," there is a HUGE difference in acting value, writing value, natural story flow, and emotional connection. And the season 2 episode is the far superior one. I wish the show were still on par with the quality they used to put out. Now it's much more forced humor and this frustrating jockeying back and forth between over-the-top behaviors and more natural behaviors. It's like the showrunners push the characters into one or the other mode, depending on what they need for the story they're telling. It didn't used to be that way. It makes me so sad and frustrated because these are talented actors and they used to be given much better material.

[sinkwriter]

And I hate the forced crossover -- I've already gone into much more detail over in the Bones episode thread about why I think it doesn't work. But here I'll just re-comment that I think it makes Booth and Brennan look stupid and clueless. Booth is supposed to be a very savvy, gut-smart FBI agent. He's the gut, Brennan's the science. And to have neither of them catch on that there's something fishy going on with Abbie and Crane and all their side eyes to one another, it just makes them look incompetent in comparison and that's not who these two characters are supposed to be. Booth and Brennan are supposed to be at the top of their fields. Brennan is brilliant and Booth is savvy when it comes to reading people. We saw it a little bit when he cornered Abbie and asked her if she was doing some sort of off-the-books case work. But for him to not dig any harder or think they were in any way suspicious, and for them to miss out on so many pieces of the puzzle and just hand wave everything away, I think it makes them look not good at their jobs. And that shouldn't be the case. Because they're smarter than that (or they used to be).

 

That's why I think these two worlds should never have mixed. Because it forces each world to mesh when they shouldn't - like someone else mentioned, now they pretend there's no Washington Irving or headless horseman tales? Like there's no way Hodgins wouldn't have been cracking wise about stuff like that, especially it being right around Halloween and him finding a headless corpse and then accidentally dropping a pumpkin into the coffin. And it means that Booth and Brennan are walking around clueless to the monsters and evils going on, when in their world they'd be fighting such things right alongside of Abbie and Ichabod. (Especially Booth.) Instead, Abbie and Ichabod sigh huge relief that they weren't found out. It's ridiculous.

Edited October 31, 2015 by sinkwriter

[CalamityBoPeep]

Leading with the positives, I loved that the town of Sleepy Hollow seems to have a lot of people in it this season!  We have townies!  People to worry about inadvertently getting caught in the crossfire.  I appreciated that the population actually seems to exist again.

 

Also loved the moment Abbie and Ichabod showed up in the Bones episode.  I had been so bored, so uncomfortable with the acting choices and the delivery and style of the show up until then.  When Abbie spoke, I just had to sigh with relief, ah, here's our Abbie with her beautiful voice, and her down to earth line delivery.  All was right with the world, when she appeared.  Then I was able to tolerate the Bones episode.  Have absolutely no desire to ever watch another episode of Bones again, though.  One was plenty.  Really not a fan of the stylistic choices they make on that show, and hated the eye-rolling ridiculousness of them pretending one can get an image of a person's head with no skull.  

 

The Sleepy Hollow part was good, though, and I enjoyed Pandora stealing the candy.  Also Ichabod's sheer discomfort and embarrassment when he called Zoe.   I'm enjoying the character beats, but I do have some concern about where they're going with Zoe's character.  I don't hate her like I do Betsy Ross, though, so I'm fine with just seeing what happens next.

 

Jenny and Joe continue to impress.  Enjoyed them a lot.  Called it though, when the lawyer-types left Danny's office and he was talking about the case to Abbie.  I figured it'd end up being tied to Jenny.  Should be interesting.

[CooperTV]

This season's Ichabod doesn't work for me. I realized it yet again while watching the crossover. I've recently rewatched season 1, and Mison played Ichabod as a man of his time but he was charming and sarcastic. Now he's just stiff and uncomfortable. There were glimpses of the old Ichabod in the "Fondling in the Forest" line thing but overall it was a strange experience.

 

I didn't care about the Bones part of the crossover at all. I find both main characters to be dull robots with no chemistry. I assume they had kids now? But I'm not sure how that happened, seeing as they're both rather sexless and not really caring in their interactions. And I must admit I was kind of horrified when Brennan was dropping anvils how Ichabod and Abbie should be together that way, and basing her opinion on the amazing chemistry between herself and Booth. No. Just... no. I mean, it'd be great if Ichabod and Abbie fall in love but not at the expense of them being obviously acting like brother and sister that irritated by each other.

 

Speaking of chemistry. Writers, I think I need those Abbie/Ichabod hugs back.

 

Sleepy Hollow's own episode was a cop-out, IMO. So much potential for Ichabod's guilt and Howe intimidating people. And the episode spent this time on irrelevant Brennan/Ichabod conversation in the tomb. Oh, and on Betty Ross, and that girl everyone wants Ichabod to bang (for some... reason). I also didn't particularly cared for the Joe and Jennie subplot. It's good their subplot interferes with the FBI and Abbie's job but... eh, dull.

Edited October 31, 2015 by CooperTV

[Vodka]

I don't mind the mentions of Katrina. In fact, it would be weird if they never mentioned her. She was the love of Ichabod's life and just recently got killed.

 

I loved the Bones characters (I was like - Angel! since i never watched Bones). They are better SH characters than Betsy Ross, SUCH A USELESS ROLE.

Loved Bones' and Ichabod's interaction. Since I wasn't aware they were the existing characters on another show I thought why aren't these regulars over Nikki Reed? Bones is they type of female they need to pair Ichabod up with. And Abbie and Boone had good chemistry too, no? 

 

I don't want there to be an Abbie Ichabod thing.

[Julia]

The Angelatron used to be a program which created a 3D hologram of reconstructed people and scenarios by adding flesh and cartilage to skeletal remains based on what the bones indicated about the victim. Now it measures the isotopic decay of handwavium and displays the victim's prom picture.

I've been kind of convinced for years that the showrunners bluntly hated Bones and its audience, because this season, now that they're gone, is a mild improvement. Seasons 1-~4 were a very different show. It's been a matter of great joy to me for years to watch their lameass backdoor pilots crash and burn.

The actress who plays Angela, sadly, had the weird affected speech patterns from the beginning. One of the guys from ZZ Top played her dad, though, so that was fun.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Julia

[kia112]

Like many people have said, I liked our guys in the Bones universe, but found no use for Brennan and Booth in ours.  My favorite part was that whole Sex on the Beach conversation between Abbie and Ichabod at the end of Bones.  Couldn't stop laughing at that.

[vanarnd1]

There were good moments in both episodes, but I am disappointed with how much they are pushing Zoe/Ichabod. Especially when it results in Abbie giving relationship advice. I wouldn't have minded bringing up Katrina, but using it to discuss Ichabod's relationship conflicts is just doubling down on the wrong thing IMO. I just don't know what it is building toward. No matter what they do with Zoe at this point, even if they turn her evil, it is going to require some sort of emotional aftermath and I am not really looking forward to that.

 

On the bright side, I did chuckle at "Instantgram".

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Howe Do You Duo
Pandora's plans for a general's bones raise hell across two shows.

[Yolapukka]

If they are headed in the direction of Ichabbie, I need to see Ichabod in at least one other dating relationship before they start to move toward one another. I have a problem with him transitioning from his period of quietly mourning Katrina and their marriage to fixating on Abbie, someone on whom he has been very dependent. I was glad to hear him acknowledge the significance of his history with Katrina, even if I despised the character. It would be pretty shabby if Ichabod  never referenced her again, however, I don't need to hear much more than that little nod as he prepares to move on. I do need to hear Abbie, at some point explicitly acknowledge to someone, preferably Jenny, how the wigstand was a thorn in her side and express a little negativity over that time the bitch tried to kill her, instead of always taking the high ground on that subject. I don't tend to think it's petty to express just a little anger that a person she helped and supported in a myriad of ways betrayed her horribly and then the bitch tried to kill her!

 

It goes without saying that I would like to see Abbie allowed to actually date someone too and not someone who comes with built-in drawbacks, like her current boss or her sister's recent fuck-buddy.

Edited October 31, 2015 by yuggapukka

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I am a (mostly) faithful Jossverse alumni fangirl so I felt obligated to watch Bones when it started. I stuck with it and watched every episode in the first nine seasons, despite the fact that for about half that time, I was watching only out of habit (and often questioning why I was still watching). After S9 ended, I decided to stop watching but I ended up watching the first few episodes of S10 just to see how they killed off Sweets and to see the fallout. I haven't watched since then. I totally forgot about the crossover until Brennan and Booth showed up in this week's episode of Sleepy Hollow. I'm glad they were used pretty minimally on SH because within the first minute of their appearance, I remembered how annoying I found Brennan and how much I disliked what Booth became in the later seasons. I found their presence in this episode largely unnecessary so I kept waiting for them to be done and get off my tv.

[fantique]

4) As awesome as Pandora is as a villain, SBR is the complete opposite as a so-called heroine. But the funny thing is, why are they waiting to show her until more than halfway through the episode? I wonder if, TPTB told the showrunner 'Hey, after the disaster of CFD, don't shove SBR into things too much until we get a feel if the audience accepts her.' I feel like there were other scenes with Crane and SBR but they were cut. I dunno, just a feeling I had. I know I certainly have made my feelings about her clear on those Project Fox polls. They have to see that Shannyn is much more popular as a villain than Ian Somerhalder's wife is as a patriot.

Yeah, I thought so too. I think they realised nobody is into her so I think they will slowly fade her out of the show. They signed her for the whole season so they have to keep her on but they can use her sparsely. Serves them right for adding a completely unnecessary character for no discernible reason. Whatever, as long as they make it possible for me to ignore her existence, I am good.

 

Bill Irwin was in this episode? I must have missed his name in the credits.

 

This was a much better episode than the Bones episode. I think Hodgins might have been a better fit though and he could have actually spent some time in Sleepy Hollow.  Which also made me wonder, where is Sleepy Hollow that Ichabod and Abby can just drive over to the Jeffersonian when they need to?

I though so too.

 

I'm happy to see that the crossover stunt worked and gave SH a decent ratings bump. It was worth it then. But for me personally, I hate Bones and couldn't make myself watch their half. It doesn't seem like it was necessary though. I also didn't enjoy the cameos in our half, but whatever.

I can't really fairly judge the episode as a whole due to the Bones stuff, so all I'll say is I liked their Halloween costumes and Pandora randomly stealing some kid's candy. However, as much as I like Pandora, the barely there and hardly moving myth arc with her isn't doing anything for me and I'm bored with the MoTW focus. Even when the 1st season did MoTW, most of the time the monsters themselves or the investigation into them carried emotional weight - the Sandman with Abbie's guilt, the key of Solomon with the sister's anger, John Doe with Crane almost dying and Abbie's crisis of faith etc. Without the emotional resonance and without the fast and crazy myth arc, the show feels like a hollow shell to me.

Bitterly laugh at the unintended pun about the depressing lack of depth of the show. And I hope next week advances the season arc...it's getting tiresome. And since they are doing a 9/9 split, there are only four episodes left in the first half of the season.

 

I used to watch Bones -- stopped after they killed poor Vincent Nigel-Murray who was my favorite squintern.  So i had no problem, falling into both shows. 

- And finally, I liked the Cookie Lyon costume.  LOL. 

1. I was sooo pissed that he got killed. He was my favourite too...

2. That was adorable.

 

Didn't Corbin, jr. warn Crane against taking any matchmaking advice from the Mills sisters? Wasn't that a scene, where they were sitting in a car... maybe last week? If I didn't make that up, then maybe Abbie advising Ich to go after Zoe is meant to be a sign of how off she (Zoe) is. I'd like that. I also like that Ich seems ambivalent. They've written him to basically be attracted to every woman who rings his homesickness bells for 200 years ago. Re-enactors, historic preservationists, ladies in costume. But to make him self-aware about that, and ambivalent, rather than making him just a cad who will go for any female who seems familiar, I think would be a better development.

That would certainly help me digest this screen time eating SL, because right now I am wondering why I am supposed to give a flying fuck about Crane's dating life. Shouldn't the citizenship be a way to show him moving on? Can't they have hearings and meetings that make him think about the past and declare he is free of its pains and still carries the rewards from it? And why have they not addressed his citizenship since epsiode 3? So annoying. The problem is that the writers don't see anything wrong with Crane's characterisation or development so it is unlikely they will fix what might bother some of us.

[fantique]

I do need to hear Abbie, at some point explicitly acknowledge to someone, preferably Jenny, how the wigstand was a thorn in her side and express a little negativity over that time the bitch tried to kill her, instead of always taking the high ground on that subject. I don't tend to think it's petty to express just a little anger that a person she helped and supported in a myriad of ways betrayed her horribly and then the bitch tried to kill her!

 

It goes without saying that I would like to see Abbie allowed to actually date someone too and not someone who comes with built-in drawbacks, like her current boss or her sister's recent fuck-buddy.

I don't know... I liked that Abbie was plenty negative about Katrina's abilities/trustworthiness while she was around. I don't need it rehashed like it's some petty competition reminding us how much she sucked. Katrina didn't betray Abbie because there was nothing to betray, Abbie didn't trust her or like her or care  about her as a person. Abbie didn't trust her, wasn't surprised when she went dark and didn't shed tears when her dust went straight to the seventh circle of hell. She got in the way of Abbie carrying out her mission and was endangering her, her loved ones and the town at large. I like that it was all business, and don't want it made personal. The way I saw it, Katrina was either an asset or a liability to Abbie, her being Crane's wife was a non-sequitur. Either she worked for the team or not. I think Abbie shows plenty of disdain when she always prefaces with "whatever she was/ended up being" when telling Crane she understand his feelings. That's not her speaking kindly of Katrina, it's more sympathising for Crane's sense of loss. She understands that he still has good memories of his wife to mourn.

 

I cannot agree more with the bolded. I really don't know what the fuck they are doing with Reynolds and why it's so hard for them to get her a decent LI if they must have the witnesses in relationships. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by fantique

[Raja]

 

It's from Beyonce's new video "Flawless": 

(Shown here in color:)

 

And here's Abbie: https://vine.co/v/eYLhmdn0UvB

 

I sat there looking wondering what the Queen necklace had to do with Daisy Duke

[Clanstarling]

I watch both Bones and Sleepy Hollow, and thought the idea of a crossover was ill-advised at best. But since I don't like crossovers in general - even in universes that make sense - I watched them with some hope that maybe they wouldn't live down to my expectations. If they'd left it with Hodgins being the only crossover, that might have worked. 

 

I didn't hate the episodes (till Betsy entered, stage boobs left), but I was mostly bored. I watch when I exercise, and with this episode I was constantly looking at the clock (memorably at 12 minutes in, I was "oh God, only 12 minutes!). 

 

Thanks Raja for posting the picture - I too had absolutely no idea what was going on with the costume (other than it looked good on her).

 

I'm sitting here struggling to find one positive thing to say and...nope. It's not coming to me.

[DearEvette]

I cannot agree more with the bolded. I really don't know what the fuck they are doing with Reynolds and why it's so hard for them to get her a decent LI if they must have the witnesses in relationships. 

 

By making Reynolds her boss, they have effectively taken him off the table as a viable love interest for Abbie.

 

I have no problem if the show is not rushing into making Ab & Ich a love item.  If that isn't the story they want to tell just yet then that isn't the story they want to tell.  That is ok.  But if they want to give either of them a love interest outside of the other, then it should be equal opportunity.  We have had two seasons of them demonstrating Ichabod as a sexual being. We saw him profess his love for his wife, he's kissed her, we've watched romance between them, we've even seen them in in post coital glow.  And now this season we are watching women kiss him, him fantasize about kissing women, him setting up dates.  Ichabod gets to have a love life.

 

But Abbie doesn't and that chaps.  All of her love life has been off screen and over before we get to see it.  She had already broken up with Luke and wasn't giving him the time of day.  Andy loves her yes, but he was dead.  Hawley liked her, but he was already Jenny's and Abbie dissed him anyway.  And now Daniel.  Already over.  If Ichabod gets to explore a love life why not Abbie?

 

Honestly, I don't think the show can truly support love interests for either one of them.  And the writers have set themselves up a Herculean task by even trying.  Because Beharie and Mison have such natural and deep chemistry, anything less than that with other potential love interests will continued to be perceived as a waste of time and effort.  And so far no matter how many women they've thrown at Ichabod none of them seem to have even a fraction of the chemistry he has with Abbie.

 

But at least show them both trying (and failing) at love rather than just having Abbie sit on the sidelines like some anti-love magnet while Ichabod is off sowing his oats.

[possibilities]

One thing I do notice is that Ichabod's non-Katrina love interests are mostly used as comedic fodder. Even his fantasies are played for laughs, because he's embarrassed, and his actual conversations with the women in question are always awkward and used for lightening up an episode. Basically, it's the comic relief on the gloomy landscape of a serious show.

 

I don't see Abbie serving that function with any plausible love interest. It would not be funny to see her socially squirming or uncomfortable in any way. She's not awkward and she's not a fish out of water whose courting style would seem inherently strange to a contemporary. So anyone they got her involved with would have to be somewhat serious, wouldn't it? She doesn't seem like the type for a fling, either.

[fantique]

By making Reynolds her boss, they have effectively taken him off the table as a viable love interest for Abbie.

Not really, forbidden work romances are a thing on TV all the time and Abbies breaks rules when she can justify them to herself. And if the pressure boils up to a high enough point, I would not find it unbelievable for her to crumble, confide in him and they get closer that way. It doesn't have to even be back to full blown relationship but just seeing someone she was involved with close to her again would be an interesting point of view and a new beat.

 

One thing I do notice is that Ichabod's non-Katrina love interests are mostly used as comedic fodder. Even his fantasies are played for laughs, because he's embarrassed, and his actual conversations with the women in question are always awkward and used for lightening up an episode. Basically, it's the comic relief on the gloomy landscape of a serious show.

 

I don't see Abbie serving that function with any plausible love interest. It would not be funny to see her socially squirming or uncomfortable in any way. She's not awkward and she's not a fish out of water whose courting style would seem inherently strange to a contemporary. So anyone they got her involved with would have to be somewhat serious, wouldn't it? She doesn't seem like the type for a fling, either.

I don't really give a shit that it's used for comic relief, they are having Abbie being invested earnestly, not as a joke, in them while she has nothing going on emotionally. I was ok ignoring them even though I thought it took time away from scenes I would rather see, and know were cut. I will put it more bluntly, if Ichabod gets to move on and get out there in the world with Abbie cheering him on and enquiring about his dates, I want someone to be Abbie's interlocutor to discuss how she really feels about Reynolds being back. We've had ambivalent, non-committal in Reynolds' (and Crane's) presence which makes sense. But Jenny who lloves to tease her sister and clearly was side-eyeing them when they met that morning. Why haven't we had a scene with Jenny asking Abbie about it like we have scenes with the others always asking Ichabod about Zoe? And the comic relief thing doesn't even make sense as an excuse because I don't see a rule book that romantic beats for both characters have to be the same. His can be light and funny while hers is more emotionally grounding for the character. As for OOC-ness, that's why the ex who becomes the boss set up works because we on't have to see the dates, and the flirting or whatever. They quickly established that they had enough of connection that he is comfortable, open with her and knows a lot about her life in Sleepy Hollow which means she trusted him. We don't need to see them on dates, we can see them having moments where they discuss their career and he is supportive ad that old familiarity sinks back into their rapport so I don't get that argument either.

 

I going to be blunt and say what I want in not so nice terms (wrt Ichabod): I want her to have more scenes away from him, his D-grade drama and his self-involvement. I want Abbie to spend time with someone who cares and enquires sincerely about her feelings instead of giving up at the first sign that she is reluctant, like that's a new thing. Season 1 Ichabod prodded until the issue was addressed, this one is like "oh OK, you're done then. Let me talk about my stalker or guilt over everything that ever happened during the Revolution that ultimately amounts to nothing. Oooh, shall I rant about the superiority of a time period during which i could have owned you?!".

I want either real scenes with Reynolds where they don't have that weird blocking when the subject gets personal or have her at least vocalise her feelings about the situation to Jenny just like Crane does to her. What is hard about that? Why do people make it sound like a herculean task when at least 3 minutes of the damn episode were spent counselling Crane on his love life without the LI present. Which shows that her feelings about it can even be addressed without showing Danny/Abbie scenes. Even if she no longer is into him, surely it's confusing enough of a situation to warrant a conversation? Why can't the writers write overarching emotional beats for Abbie? Crane has them, Jenny has them, heck Joe has them. Why not Abbie?

 

The problem is that Abbie is only allowed to talk to random day players, to Jenny but only about case stuff outside of their father drama for some reason, be in a group where the conversation inevitably becomes about Ichabod and Ichabod himself who isn't about to actually enquire about her emotional state. Yes, Nicole is great at conveying emotions just with her face but she also has a mouth that can be used too form words and convey feelings as well, on top of having great scene chemistry with anyone. She even made KW step up! I don't know why I am so worked up but I guess to me this episode exemplified everything they're doing that pisses me off like last week's exemplified everything they're doing that I love. And having Abbie getting involved in his love life aside from just teasing him is just over the line for me. Especially because it totally makes her a hypocrite about the boundaries thing and it seems OOC to me.

[Yolapukka]

I think they laid some groundwork for Abbie dating someone when Joe gave Ichabod a heads-up over the Mills sisters tendency to match-make. I heard that as potential breadcrumbs for Abbie getting set up with someone by Jenny. I do think whether or not they show her dating life, we are going to hear a bit about her boundaries in  all relationships and with men in particular now that her father is about to be a factor in her life. I do want to see her date someone, even if it goes nowhere in the long run.

 

 

She doesn't seem like the type for a fling, either.

 

Maybe she doesn't seem the type, but nonetheless she seems to end relationships rather than move on to serious commitments. What we've heard of her past with Reynolds could fall under a fling. I think she's open to a relationship, and doesn't go into dating with her exit plan in mind, but there always seems to be a sound reason for her why it won't work out after a while.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think the show can truly support love interests for either one of them.  And the writers have set themselves up a Herculean task by even trying.  Because Beharie and Mison have such natural and deep chemistry, anything less than that with other potential love interests will continued to be perceived as a waste of time and effort.  And so far no matter how many women they've thrown at Ichabod none of them seem to have even a fraction of the chemistry he has with Abbie.

 

I agree. Dating for either of them is not going to be anything more than a c-level plot, unless it happens to play into a particular episode's storyline. (Ie poor Caroline.) I do think if the show stays on the air, they will go OTP with them, precedent be damned. Their chemistry on all levels is what makes the show click. Even fans who oppose pairing them usually feel that way because they don't want their dynamic interfered with. (By fans, I mean actual fans, not freakshows who need to see a particular anti-Abbie agenda fulfilled.) So far, anything I've seen this season that points away from Ichabbie in the short term also sets things up for a credible, grounded pairing in the long run. Frankly, there is no room for either of them to have a dating life that is much more than small hit and run scenes unless it's with one another.

 

 

I don't know... I liked that Abbie was plenty negative about Katrina's abilities/trustworthiness while she was around. I don't need it rehashed like it's some petty competition reminding us how much she sucked. Katrina didn't betray Abbie because there was nothing to betray, Abbie didn't trust her or like her or care  about her as a person. Abbie didn't trust her, wasn't surprised when she went dark and didn't shed tears when her dust went straight to the seventh circle of hell. She got in the way of Abbie carrying out her mission and was endangering her, her loved ones and the town at large. I like that it was all business, and don't want it made personal. The way I saw it, Katrina was either an asset or a liability to Abbie, her being Crane's wife was a non-sequitur.

 

I tended to read it as Abbie having a lot of automatic acceptance of Katrina based on her status as Cranes' wife as well as her history when contacted in purgatory of offering helpful information. I think as time went on and Katrina repeatedly showed herself as unreliable due to her limitations and personal agenda(s), Abbie withdrew her trust and began to throw a bit of shade at Ichabods' witch-wife and openly voice her concerns over her interference. Even so she was still regarding Katrina as an ally beyond a reasonable point, mainly due to Katrina's connection to Ichabod. Abbie risked herself to free Katrina from Purgatory, financially supported  her, put up with her interference, played marriage counsellor to the Cranes, brought down Orion (please bring him back!), placed herself in unnecessary mortal peril and was maneuvered into compromising her calling because of Katrina's influence on both herself and Ichabod. I heard the words "Katrina was right" uttered a few times too many in season two. Abbie had no allegiance to the wigstand by the time that corseted dummass openly abandoned her loyalty to the witnesses and then tried to kill them both, but it was very much a betrayal of all that had been offered to and done for her by Abbie prior to that point. 

 

If I ever hear about Katrina on this show again, I just want Abbie to be allowed to express some open anger about her, instead of taking the high road. I don't want it to come out of nowhere and I don't want her to go on about it, but I'd like to hear her express her own feelings instead of pulling her punches out of consideration for Ichabod. 

[jhlipton]

Thanks Raja for posting the picture

 

Helloooooo....

[Browncoat]

I had never watched Bones before this crossover, and quite frankly, I hope I don't ever have to again.  I could barely stand the woman and her delivery of her lines.  Is she always like that?  Has she always been like that?  So stilted and emotionless. 

 

I did like the SH episode, though, particularly the Greek fire and how the draughr (is that how you spell it?) disintegrated.  Also? Tom Mison's legs.

[Notwisconsin]

Lord Howe died in 1814, Washington's tomb was built in the early 19th century, and there is no Westchester National Park.

 

However they DO have a Hudson Valley National Historic Area between the Bronx and Albany, and the people who run it are very much into historic preservation and any large 200+ year old structures would have been landmarked decades ago.

 

Still it would have been really cool if the had the Architect of the Capitol tagging along when they got to the tomb. Or have someone from the British embassy come in and complain that the Jeffersonian had a pilfered corpse or something like that.  This is not Bones canon.

[DeLurker]

While I can do without any reference to Katrina, I will say I absolutely loved how they filmed that scene where Crane and Abbie are walking in shadows.

My theory is that Tom couldn't keep a straight face and Nicole wouldn't stop those incredible eyerolls so they were forced to shot in shadows.

[HalcyonDays]

Just realized that when Crane was incredulous that no one recognized this "John Adams", Mison sounded exactly like he did as Mr. Bingley in Lost in Austen. Basically, the bit higher (his normal?) voice. He speaks in a much deeper register as Crane. Totally reminded me of th LiA scene "But Miss Price is the perfect nurse...She has Paracetamols..."

 

My theory is that Tom couldn't keep a straight face and Nicole wouldn't stop those incredible eyerolls so they were forced to shot in shadows.

 

Hee. I agree. I wish we had more of those kind of scenes in SH itself. It was hilarious, and probably they broke character. Reminded me of the full "Waffles" video that Abbie had on her phone.

[Julia]

I had never watched Bones before this crossover, and quite frankly, I hope I don't ever have to again.  I could barely stand the woman and her delivery of her lines.  Is she always like that?  Has she always been like that?  So stilted and emotionless. 

 

The longtime showrunners believed in the moonlighting curse and in the course of erecting artificial barriers retconned her onto the autism spectrum, which they decided she entered as a teenager because her mom yelled at her. They carried on a troll war with their shippers on Ausiello-type sites for years, so either they thought it was a good ratings strategy or they just really disliked their shippers. 

 

tl;dr: No. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Julia

[CalamityBoPeep]

 

I going to be blunt and say what I want in not so nice terms (wrt Ichabod): I want her to have more scenes away from him, his D-grade drama and his self-involvement. I want Abbie to spend time with someone who cares and enquires sincerely about her feelings instead of giving up at the first sign that she is reluctant, like that's a new thing. Season 1 Ichabod prodded until the issue was addressed, this one is like "oh OK, you're done then. Let me talk about my stalker or guilt over everything that ever happened during the Revolution that ultimately amounts to nothing. Oooh, shall I rant about the superiority of a time period during which i could have owned you?!".

 

 

While I agree with you on what they could be showing, as far as Abbie's relationships go, I've never seen Ichabod do or say anything that at all indicated that he thinks of Abbie as someone he could have owned, nor does he seem to find that the concept of owning anyone was ever a very good idea.  Most of his rants are pretty relevant to today, though... we have become a shallow society, of people who no longer care to look into subjects deeply and make connections to the course of history.  (Hell, Nikki Reed thinks that this show is "educational"! smh... Makes me ill just thinking there are people out there who think they're being educated about history, somehow, by watching this show.)  But more importantly, Ichabod was told, very directly by Abbie, to mind his own business where her relationship with Reynolds is concerned.  If he were to keep pushing on that front, people would be all up in arms that he's disrespecting her desire for boundaries.  She said "mind your business."  That's not really open for interpretation.  

 

I see his moving away from that topic of conversation, to be a demonstration that he actually heard her and is honoring her request.  It doesn't seem like self-involvement, to me, for him to allow her to keep her boundaries intact.  A lot of times, he speaks of himself, as an attempt to present an opening for her to speak of herself.  (Like on the porch, with the secrets).  It doesn't mean he doesn't care to hear about her.  It means that he's willing to lay his deeper self bare, so that if she is so inspired, she can do so too.  He's demonstrated a willingness to hear her, but he'll never gain her trust if he keeps pushing her to reveal what she isn't ready to reveal.

[CalamityBoPeep]

The longtime showrunners believed in the moonlighting curse and in the course of erecting artificial barriers retconned her onto the autism spectrum, which they decided she entered as a teenager because her mom yelled at her. They carried on a troll war with their shippers on Ausiello-type sites for years, so either they thought it was a good ratings strategy or they just really disliked their shippers. 

 

tl;dr: No. 

 

I'm extremely glad we don't watch that show, then, considering that I have a grown daughter who has struggled with Autism for her entire life.  I find it incredibly offensive that they decided Brennan became autistic because of her mother screaming at her.  Do they have any idea how much the idea of "the mother caused the autism" has damaged so many families?  That particular theory was still operating in some circles as recently as the 90's. Disgusting that they'd go back to that well, when so much progress has been made.

 

Anyway.  That's not Sleepy Hollow, but it makes me really glad I didn't know that backstory while watching the crossover event.  If they ever decide to do a crossover with Bones again, they can safely count us out.

[fantique]

While I agree with you on what they could be showing, as far as Abbie's relationships go, I've never seen Ichabod do or say anything that at all indicated that he thinks of Abbie as someone he could have owned, nor does he seem to find that the concept of owning anyone was ever a very good idea.  Most of his rants are pretty relevant to today, though... we have become a shallow society, of people who no longer care to look into subjects deeply and make connections to the course of history.  (Hell, Nikki Reed thinks that this show is "educational"! smh... Makes me ill just thinking there are people out there who think they're being educated about history, somehow, by watching this show.)  But more importantly, Ichabod was told, very directly by Abbie, to mind his own business where her relationship with Reynolds is concerned.  If he were to keep pushing on that front, people would be all up in arms that he's disrespecting her desire for boundaries.  She said "mind your business."  That's not really open for interpretation.  

 

I see his moving away from that topic of conversation, to be a demonstration that he actually heard her and is honoring her request.  It doesn't seem like self-involvement, to me, for him to allow her to keep her boundaries intact.  A lot of times, he speaks of himself, as an attempt to present an opening for her to speak of herself.  (Like on the porch, with the secrets).  It doesn't mean he doesn't care to hear about her.  It means that he's willing to lay his deeper self bare, so that if she is so inspired, she can do so too.  He's demonstrated a willingness to hear her, but he'll never gain her trust if he keeps pushing her to reveal what she isn't ready to reveal.

Of course he doesn't, and it wasn't my point. He is idolising a time when justice was only for people like him. I am sorry but when you hold up the moral and ideals of an era, you can't just act like it was all good and not address the parts that sucked. Even after she pointedly told him that his good old times were when only men like him had rights, he still waxes poetics about it.

And he doesn't even make intellectual burns that often. Most of his rants are either about historiccal inaccuracy, exploitative greed or moral decay. The last one is what I have the most problem with. It's the same as the morons talking about how great America was in the 50s-60s when the only people who had real rights were white guys. What they're saying is stupid. And my point wasn't even that he shouldn't rant, just that I don't need it that often. This show doesn't go deep on societal topics, which means that the subjects of rants will mostly be about how stupid, shallow and vain people have become (I agree more on the stupid part) so it gets old because he is complaining about the same thing 2 years in. I am just saying, I don't find that interesting. As for minding his own business, when it comes to her dad he didn't.

Anyhow, my preference would be to have her talk about this with Jenny so... And even without the subject of Reynolds being breached, how about asking how she's holding up with her FBI duties? I  mean sure, I could assume he does but like I said the last time handwavium was brought up wrt Ichabod expressing concern about her life, I need dots before forming a line. If he doesn't show concern usually I have no reason to believe he does for this particular instance. Plot handwavium is fine-ish, character handwavium? Bad writing.

 

Not asking about her fling with Reynolds? Definitely observing the boundaries laid out. Asking about Abbie herself on anything unrelated to their common cause only once in a blue moon? Self involvement or at least disinterest in her. Unless you are used to your friends never asking you how you are doing? The porch scene was good because he thought she needed to unburden herself and I appreciated how it demonstrated a knowledge of how she works and the need for him to open up first. But then does that mean she needs to be attacked by a demon for him to be worried? If not self-involvement, it's very much taking her for granted. Which is alarming considering the kind of work they do. The pattern is, he asks when it's a plot point and is an indication to the audience "hey...will totally come back to this, pay attention". When a character does something rarely and it's always for plot,  I do not consider it part of their characterisation. I.e.: I don't consider Crane to be attentive since he only is when the plot demands it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care where it comes from, I just want Abbie to have more scenes that are focused on her with someone who is not a villain. That Pandora is more aware of Abbie's struggles and unease than her roommate says a lot I would think. And I'm sorry but Crane has been self involved and manpaining since he found out Headless was Abe. This is nothing new here. It's just that season 1 had a good enough plot to keep me occupied and season 2 had three people who were even more self involved than him and therefore got the brunt of my irritation. Not saying his situation wasn't bad, but when someone is talking about how bad they have it more than anything, I just can't care. My brain switches off, self pity, especially in fiction, is the quickest way for me to dismiss them

 

Independently of how I feel it affects Abbie and her narrative, the rants are more miss than hit for me because he talks a lot about how it was better and then they have a funny scene about how he loves it here for x reason (usually something frivolous). I can't take that seriously, especially when the material is always the same. And how many times does the point of people being less desirous of proper education need to be made? Every episode? Congratulations, I could have told you that and I was born in 1993.  

As for Nikki Reed, come on...I don't think she genuinely believes there is anything remotely educational about the show. She is just BS-ing because everyone is dismissive of her character. I know little to nothing about American history and I still assumed most things are made up with a little reality sprinkled in because of, you know, the twistory label for the show. I have talked at length about my disgust and dismay at the idea that TV should teach anything other than pushing to change perspectives once in a while or making you want to learn more about an unknown supplementary subject. At least for people older than 12. I completely agree that if someone's problem is that this program is teaching them the wrong thing, well that's the least of their problems really.

 

Listen, I don't expect anyone to agree with me or interpret the scenes/characters the same way. That's just  how I digest stories. The more a narration beats me over the head with something, the more irritated and dismissive I get. Which is why I am also getting annoyed with the lack of progress with the Pandora plot and motivations. Yes, she collects fears, is delightfully evil, and she womansplains to Abbie. But without progress all I can say is she's bitter and throwing a tantrum over millennia old grudge. That's just how I feel about it.

I also feel that if Abbie continues to be mute about her own feelings and seemingly always cornered into non committal, ambivalent answers, then I will be forced to draw the conclusion that she doesn't really have a conflict. She doesn't care which path, she just finds it easier to conform to whatever her interlocutor expects of her. Bestie cheerleader/nanny/confidante for Ichabod and workaholic for Danny. Pandora tells me she has fears, the camera shows me her furrowed brows but she just passively flips and flops between environments not telling me which she likes and feels better in. I am losing sense of who the character is and what she wants outside of her self identification as an agent and a witness. I don't feel like she is fighting for anything. And whatever scenes that are not just about the case she shares with a character that's never going to ask those questions...So I resent the association. Now if she is with Jenny and pulls the same shit, then that's her character and it sucks.

 

If I ever hear about Katrina on this show again, I just want Abbie to be allowed to express some open anger about her, instead of taking the high road. I don't want it to come out of nowhere and I don't want her to go on about it, but I'd like to hear her express her own feelings instead of pulling her punches out of consideration for Ichabod. 

Oh ok. I guess I was more coming from the angle that Abbie didn't really care about Katrina so her feelings are "bitch was crazy, glad she's dead. Moving on." I just feel like she thinks of Katrina like she does of Moloch, Headless and Henry. I just don't think she was important enough to warrant anger as opposed to irritation. And if she's talking to Crane about Katrina, other than how he feels about her loss, what would they be talking about? What would even bring about her anger? Unless we get to a repeat of that situation, in which case I would rather have the discontent directed at the person who for some reason thought his useless wife had a say in the mission, especially with her trustworthiness and good judgement diminishing by the second.

 

My theory is that Tom couldn't keep a straight face and Nicole wouldn't stop those incredible eyerolls so they were forced to shot in shadows.

I love you for this post. Much needed laugh

Edited November 2, 2015 by fantique

[CalamityBoPeep]

Of course he doesn't, and it wasn't my point. He is idolising a time when justice was only for people like him. I am sorry but when you hold up the moral and ideals of an era, you can't just act like it was all good and not address the parts that sucked. Even after she pointedly told him that his good old times were when only men like him had rights, he still waxes poetics about it.

 

Everyone idolizes the time period that formed them.  I don't know anyone who really genuinely wishes they'd been born in another time.  I do know a lot of people who judge past times rather harshly.  And I don't think it's necessary to have Ichabod going around judging the period of time that he's from.  Frankly, I'd find it to be an incredibly boring show, if they forced Ichabod into a modern sensibility about the bigger issues of the day, and forced him to have doubts now, about the cause that he committed himself to then.  Part of his difficulty with having actually (in the show, anyway) lived history, is that he is basically blind to the modern interpretation of it, just as we currently, have no idea how future generations will judge our actions (but I'm guessing that we're probably committing some pretty major-to-the-future-generations faux pas, since we're just people).  

 

And, personally, I don't mind that he's blind to the moral judgement that people of today seem to have about people back then.  I'm a woman, so I suppose I could get all worked up about the lack of property rights that I would have had in revolutionary times, but it really doesn't bother me that the show isn't attacking that issue.  I just don't think it's necessary, and it'd drag the story down.  It seems to me, that having Ichabod beaten over the head with the failings of his generation would be nothing but a weekly attempt to browbeat the audience with modern social justice issues, which is not the show I signed up for.  I wanted a fun, rollicking "twistory" show that takes liberties with literary, historical, and biblical canon, and just dares the audience to go along for the ride.  To have that kind of fun, the show can't be taking itself too seriously; and when I signed on as an audience member, I agreed not to take the show too seriously either.

 

As for minding his own business, when it comes to her dad he didn't.

 

 

He invited her to confide in him, by revealing his own secret, and she did.  That indicated that the door to that subject was open, so if she changes her mind on that, she'll need to let him know, and he'll need to respect the new boundary.  So far, she hasn't changed her mind.

 

As for Nikki Reed, come on...I don't think she genuinely believes there is anything remotely educational about the show. She is just BS-ing because everyone is dismissive of her character.

 

 

I'm just going by what the lady said.  If she didn't mean it, or was bs-ing, I suppose the fault in misinterpretation probably lies with the journalist who quoted her.  I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt in this case, because truthfully, I believe that most Hollywood types are simply not that bright.  Maybe she's an exception.  Who knows... I don't know her, so I couldn't say for sure.  Her bulb doesn't shine too brightly in interviews, at any rate.

 

Asking about Abbie herself on anything unrelated to their common cause only once in a blue moon? Self involvement or at least disinterest in her. Unless you are used to your friends never asking you how you are doing?

 

 

He lives with her.  He has been shown to care about what's going on in her mind.  To me, those two things add up to the probability that he speaks to her more than what we've seen, and has an ongoing interest in what she's thinking.  And I'd go even further, to suggest that during their time in Offscreenville, he probably is curious about her life, and initiates conversations about her life, because we have seen him express an interest in various facets of who she is, and we've seen him going to some effort to make himself less of a burden on her.  I don't feel like we have to see it every time it happens, if they've set up a pattern of interest, and shown him, on the actual show, to be a caring individual who is not only focused on himself.  

 

I'm not sure what the state of my own friendships has to do with anything.  But, yes, my friends do ask how I'm doing, and I ask them how they're doing, especially when we're in the same house, having a nice quiet cup of tea together.  Which may be why I imagine Ichabod and Abbie doing the same thing.

[Julia]

I'm frankly still pondering the larger issues, but this?

Plot handwavium is fine-ish, character handwavium? Bad writing.

is so much sooth.

[jhlipton]

And, personally, I don't mind that he's blind to the moral judgement that people of today seem to have about people back then.  

 

By and large, OK.  But "Thomas Jefferson would have hated coffee breaks" really hit a sore spot.  Of course, he would have -- slaves don't get breaks.  Crane didn't even stop to think who Jefferson's "employees" were.

[DeLurker]

Everyone idolizes the time period that formed them.  I don't know anyone who really genuinely wishes they'd been born in another time.  I do know a lot of people who judge past times rather harshly.  And I don't think it's necessary to have Ichabod going around judging the period of time that he's from.  Frankly, I'd find it to be an incredibly boring show, if they forced Ichabod into a modern sensibility about the bigger issues of the day, and forced him to have doubts now, about the cause that he committed himself to then.  Part of his difficulty with having actually (in the show, anyway) lived history, is that he is basically blind to the modern interpretation of it, just as we currently, have no idea how future generations will judge our actions (but I'm guessing that we're probably committing some pretty major-to-the-future-generations faux pas, since we're just people).  

 

And, personally, I don't mind that he's blind to the moral judgement that people of today seem to have about people back then.  I'm a woman, so I suppose I could get all worked up about the lack of property rights that I would have had in revolutionary times, but it really doesn't bother me that the show isn't attacking that issue.  I just don't think it's necessary, and it'd drag the story down.  It seems to me, that having Ichabod beaten over the head with the failings of his generation would be nothing but a weekly attempt to browbeat the audience with modern social justice issues, which is not the show I signed up for.  I wanted a fun, rollicking "twistory" show that takes liberties with literary, historical, and biblical canon, and just dares the audience to go along for the ride.  To have that kind of fun, the show can't be taking itself too seriously; and when I signed on as an audience member, I agreed not to take the show too seriously either.

I don't think the idolization of days of yore applies to a man-out-of-time situation.  I think S1 did a better job at showing him grappling with the reality of today versus when he went to sleep.  Plus, it was done in a more light hearted manner which was a needed tension break for me.

[topanga]

I'm getting the feeling that [Pandora's] scheme is going to lead up to a betrayal of Crane and/or Jenny by Abbie. I don't get everyone saying Nicole seems tired of her role and wants out; I think we're just seeing a return to early season 1 Abbie Mills. She's tough, driven, career-focused, and again torn between her rise up the law-enforcement ladder and her duty as a witness.

 

Let's not forget that Abbie let her little sister rot in an institution for how many years because she protected herself; in the season premiere, I never got the impression that she was angry at Crane for staying away without any word - I think she was angry he was BACK.

My memory of Abbie and Jenny's history is a little different. Yes, Abbie did lie about seeing Moloch in the woods, but she did it to protect herself when she was a scared and desperate child. And yes, this is what first landed Jenny in an institution. But since then, Jenny's institutionalization has been her own doing--she said this specifically to Abbie--that she kept getting locked up to protect Abbie from herself.

 

And Abbie kept asking Crane why he waited so long to call her. I don't think she was angry he was back. She was angry that he kept himself distant from her for all this time, and it made her guarded and hesitant to rekindle their close friendship.

 

He lives with her.  He has been shown to care about what's going on in her mind.  To me, those two things add up to the probability that he speaks to her more than what we've seen, and has an ongoing interest in what she's thinking.  And I'd go even further, to suggest that during their time in Offscreenville, he probably is curious about her life, and initiates conversations about her life, because we have seen him express an interest in various facets of who she is, and we've seen him going to some effort to make himself less of a burden on her.  I don't feel like we have to see it every time it happens, if they've set up a pattern of interest, and shown him, on the actual show, to be a caring individual who is not only focused on himself.

I agree. If you contrast the current state of their relationship with their interactions in the Pilot, I'd say they've gone back to that easy friendship where Abbie teases Crane about idolizing the past, anticipates his rants, and jokes with him about his love life. I don't think Abbie is as invested in Crane's potential relationship with Zoe as people think. From the things Abbie has said to Crane, she's simply encouraging him to stop wallowing in self-pity about Katrina and to expand his circle of friends.

 

Crane does show interest in Abbie when she lets him into her life, but she's so private and guarded, that this doesn't happen often. He continues to ask Abbie about her father: will she try to find him? Will she talk to Jenny about him? And Crane does have good intuitive skills. He understood a lot about Abbie and Jenny's relationship from the moment he met them, and he continues to give Abbie gentle advice about Jenny. (BTW, it's a shame that Abbie and Jenny don't have more scenes together where they're not talking about a case).

Edited November 2, 2015 by topanga

[jhlipton]

t made her guarded and hesitant to rekindle their close friendship.

 

Whereas Crane is all about Real Books.

 

I'll show myself out.

[fantique]

I'm frankly still pondering the larger issues, but this?

is so much sooth.

I don't understand this expression...

 

[Julia]

I don't understand this expression...

 

Speaks sooth? Is true.

[OnceSane]

We have veered off-topic more than a bit. Please take the Abbie/Crane relationship conversation to the Relationships thread. Thank you.

[Dobian]

Back on topic, haha.  Maybe I missed something, but why did NYC burn to the ground when Betsy Ross was shooting Greek Fire in the sewers to kill the undead, but when Abbie and Jenny were doing it in the sewers under Sleepy Hollow, the town was protected because nothing would catch fire down there?  (and of course, they both looked like the same sewers to me, lol, but that's a show budget thing)

 

I could tell they filmed all the scenes for both shows with the Bones group at the same time.  All the scenes with them took place in their offices with one additional set for the tomb underneath the Capitol.  It felt kind of cheap, imo.

 

Like someone else said, the world of Bones doesn't really mesh with the world of Sleepy Hollow, it was just really forced.  It would be like if CBS did a crossover of NCIS and Under the Dome.

 

The whole mystery shard overarching plot is already becoming tedious.  It's either a McGuffin or some Deus Ex Machina thing.  I hate plots that revolve around whose got the holy grail in their hands.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Dobian

[LydiaMoon1]

As a viewer who bailed in S2, I’ve watched a couple of this season’s shows (the season premier and the SH crossover). While the show has improved, it’s still a loooong way from the show I used to love.

 

The Good:
Joe (I still miss Frank though)
Team Jenny and Joe and their mystery B-plot.
Pandora (potentially)

 

 

The Bad:
That I still view Pandora as a potentially great villain.  It is 5 shows in.  When are they going to explain her purpose? And why are all the characters so passive?  In the pilot, Jenny and Joe were kicking back in the woods drinking beer.  Abby and Crane were having a leisurely conversation on the porch.  In this episode, the witnesses know that Pandora is sending monsters their way but they don’t bother to go after her.  Well, if they aren’t worried about Pandora, why should I be?  Which leads me into my biggest problem with the show……

 

THE LACK OF URGENCY.  Because there is no urgency, there is no excitement.  S1 was a thrill ride.  Now, the show is just kind of…… there.  Overall, it’s boring.  Boring is never good.

 

KATRINA LIVES! Instead of one boring love interest, we now have two!  They just split Katrina in half and named the one in the past, Betsy Ross, and the one in the present, Zoe.

 

It’s still too Crane-centric.

I going to be blunt and say what I want in not so nice terms (wrt Ichabod): I want her to have more scenes away from him, his D-grade drama and his self-involvement.

Yeah, that.

 

Finally, has the show offered any explanation of why nobody questions why she keeps taking a guy that looks like a refugee from a Revolutionary War reenactment to crime scenes and on her FBI job? I mean, the show has never much sense, but this REALLY makes no sense.

[Yolapukka]

 

Finally, has the show offered any explanation of why nobody questions why she keeps taking a guy that looks like a refugee from a Revolutionary War reenactment to crime scenes and on her FBI job? I mean, the show has never much sense, but this REALLY makes no sense.

 

This has been bugging me like crazy. The first two seasons made this work within it's universe when she was local law-enforcement but as much as I love the idea that Abbie pursued her ambitions and joined the FBI, it has also produced a huge degree of WTFuckery every time Ichabod strolls through a crime-scene in her company. At least the show is starting to somewhat address the disconnect between her duties as a witness vs her responsibilities as an FBI agent with Daniels revealing that Jenny and Joe have connected with the subject of an investigation. Even though that doesn't address Ichabod per se, it does address a broader version of the same issue.

[Free]

THE LACK OF URGENCY.  Because there is no urgency, there is no excitement.  S1 was a thrill ride.  Now, the show is just kind of…… there.  Overall, it’s boring.  Boring is never good.

 

Agreed, S1 was an ott fun ride before S2 completely squandered it.  I still remember the Headless Horseman gun fight.

[Raja]

 

 

Finally, has the show offered any explanation of why nobody questions why she keeps taking a guy that looks like a refugee from a Revolutionary War reenactment to crime scenes and on her FBI job? I mean, the show has never much sense, but this REALLY makes no sense.

She was pretty much like Mulder working X-Files for the Sheriff's Department both under Captain Irving and Sheriff Reyes and he was her historical consultant. It is not much further out there then Holmes and Watson or CSI Grissom. When a situation develops like the headless remains of a colonial era British officer she grabs Crane or she gets word  of a situation when he is around, easier done now that they are roomates

[LydiaMoon1]

I know the original explanation, but Abby's not a small town cop anymore.  I'm talking about Season 3 and Abbie's FBI job.  It's mind-boggling that the show expects me to believe that she can let her weird roommate traipse through crime scenes and interview witnesses without her boss or nary an FBI agent objecting.

[DeLurker]

Sure, it's take your roomie to work day!  Everyday!

[HalcyonDays]

I know the original explanation, but Abby's not a small town cop anymore.  I'm talking about Season 3 and Abbie's FBI job.  It's mind-boggling that the show expects me to believe that she can let her weird roommate traipse through crime scenes and interview witnesses without her boss or nary an FBI agent objecting.

 

Considering I'm still watching a show called Blindspot, where a tattooed lady with no memory - but apparently Navy Seal ass-kicking skills - is being allowed along on FBI missions and allowed to participate in capturing/shooting the villians, I'm not gonna worry about that. Don't even get me started on Quantico.

 

This IS (WAS) a show with a Headless Horseman with a machine gun, Demons terrorizing a town, Pandora messing with people and an 18th century tall skinny dude who was magically put to sleep for 250+ years, I'm not gonna sweat the small stuff. *grin*

 

For the record, no small town cop would be able to get away with this either, to be real. But hey, what can you do? *shrugs shoulders*

[Snookums]

I quit watching Bones back when they destroyed the whole Ghormanghast thing with that whole whats-his-baby being the apprentice or what the fuck ever, so I've only watched the SH ep so far. I thought they compartmentalized Bones and Booth well enough, so that Brennan's skeptic worldview wasn't held up to ridicule, nor was she made to look stupid--just a brilliant person who sees things one way period. And David had a good time shooting priceless artifacts, a la' Indiana Jones--I cracked up when Brennan's all "We're contaminating the crime scene!" and I'm all YEAH, WITH BULLETS. 

 

I got some genuine feels from Crane and Howe's interaction--you could feel how it hurt him to have this man he respected at him sneering at him, calling him "turncoat" and "dog." Even as he proclaimed that he's made his choice, the guilt was gnawing at him. He did betray his family and his country. No one of his loved ones or friends would talk to him or acknowledge him again. He renounced everything and got some pretty whack-ass shit in return.

 

Boobsy Ross wasn't horrible but not so very necessary. If anybody's interested in the loss of Manhattan to the British and how Washington felt that failure until the day he died, Sarah Vowell's new Lafayette In The Somewhat United States is fab.

 

Pandora going snake-faced to steal candy from a child was marvellous. I can not love that enough.

 

 

I could not believe that! I watched that scene going "Wait, did Pandora just straight up jack a six year old's candy?" Wow, there's evil and there's EVIL. Pandora totally commits.

[HalcyonDays]

I got some genuine feels from Crane and Howe's interaction--you could feel how it hurt him to have this man he respected at him sneering at him, calling him "turncoat" and "dog." Even as he proclaimed that he's made his choice, the guilt was gnawing at him. He did betray his family and his country. No one of his loved ones or friends would talk to him or acknowledge him again.

 

^^ This is one of the things I wish the show would delve into more. Alas, no.

[DkNNy79]

Late to the game, but figured I'd put my two cents in.

 

I have never watched an episode of Bones.  I found it boring, so probably won't be ever watching another episode.  I found the Ichabbie shipping in the episode annoying since the front runners have already told us they are not heading in that direction.

 

I like the SH episode.  Loved Abbie and Jenny's costumes, hopefully next year we get Crane in a non-period costume?  Yeah, Zoe's costume didn't look like a Betsy Ross costume to me.  ITA to those who said it was like a sexy bo-peep costume.