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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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spartan

spartan

I think there's zero chance of her being on Arrow as E2 Laurel or on the Flash for more than one episode. They're done with her plus I'm pretty sure they ruled out E2 as a way for a character to return. I wouldn't be suprised if she is playing a villain on the Flash since she's fighting Barry and gets killed off there too.

if it is to kill her as Ronny, I find it a bit odd.

They took the time to show some double depending on the importance of the character for the Flash team. Or there, laurel is not so important to them, it would have felicity (and oliver). I do not pretend to know what exactly is going on but would be really weird to kill laurel E2,  however E1  laurel died

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

What do you bet that Earth 2 Laurel went on the doomed boat trip and ended up training with and joining the League of Assassins - essentially Sara's story - but she succumbed completely to the darkness and became a full-fledged assassin?

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

What do you bet that Earth 2 Laurel went on a doomed boat trip and ended up training with and joining the League of Assassins - essentially Sara's story - but she succumbed completely to the darkness and became a full-fledged assassin?

 

Earth 2 Oliver and Robert went off on the Gambit - I suppose Laurel could've been with them, but it wasn't mentioned in the news story they showed on E2.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

CL was fired too and she came back to the Flarrowverse. 

 

Look you all know I hate Laurel, I just am not 100% convinced she's gone for good. Laurel is the one in the grave for that we have proof. We don't have proof that she will never show up again. KC being a Flash episode is what makes me rethink it. I do hope it's just fulfilling her contractually obligated appearances. Then we are free from Laurel. 

Edited by Sakura12
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manbearpig

manbearpig

(edited)

CL was fired too and she came back to the Flarrowverse. 

 

Look you all know I hate Laurel, I just am not 100% convinced she's gone for good. Laurel is the one in the grave for that we have proof. We don't have proof that she will never show up again. KC being a Flash episode is what makes me rethink it. I do hope it's just fulfilling her contractually obligated appearances. Then we are free from Laurel. 

 

Would her contract include an appearance on another show? I'm genuinely curious, because she's missed episodes of Arrow in the past so I don't know why she'd have to pop up on The Flash.

 

Laurel's death definitely has me interested in season five. She's always been one of the more enjoyable aspects of the show to me, but with her gone we'll only have two women in the main cast, and even recurring characters who could pop up regularly are tied to other shows. Katrina Law has a pilot and Caity Lotz is on LoT. Off course we know Lotz could appear, particularly if Legends has the same episode order next season, and who knows if Law's show will go to series, but...eh. Here's hoping Thea and Felicity get some decent material next season.

Edited by manbearpig
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Weeks ago I was worried about this - that they would use Earth 2 to give Laurel the backstory BC should have had.  Ya'll convinced me then that wasn't the case, but I don't think it was from a producer comment.  Perhaps it just seems unlikely.  And actually, it kind of does.  Rather they meant to or not, within the confines of the character they wrote - they have finally evolved Laurel into a somewhat caring friend and somewhat competent vigilante.  If they wanted to keep her; they wouldn't need to reboot her at this point.  And Flash certainly doesn't need another female character that they have no idea what to do with.  I think this is just a one-off Earth 2 BC memorial. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm interested in watching an ep of evil Laurel on The Flash. We've talked about on this board how "bad" is more in Katie's acting wheelhouse, so maybe this would actually be a good showcase for her, even if it's only an episode.

 

Also yeah, I don't think she's coming back to Arrow. As mentioned above, she was fired. The problems with her are not just with the character (horrible back story with Oliver, unbelievable rise to vigilante, etc.) it's behind-the scenes stuff that tells me TPTB want her gone, gone, gone #ByeByeBirdie.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

This is pretty funny. Well played, Canadian paparazzi. Well played.

 

E2 Laurel coming back to the show doesn't solve the problems with her character at all. She'll still be played by the same actress who has the same lack of chemistry with SA, and they'll still struggle to fit her into the narrative. I honestly don't think they could make it work beyond an episode or two.

 

So yeah, I do think this Flash appearance is a one-off to see out her contract, IMO. Just the fact that they're killing off the Black Canary at all makes me think this is more about the actress than the character tbh. 

Edited by Guest
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Would her contract include an appearance on another show? I'm genuinely curious, because she's missed episodes of Arrow in the past so I don't know why she'd have to pop up on The Flash.

 

It might. I remember Amanda Tapping got to be on Stargate Atlantis after Stargate SG-1 ended to run out her contract. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Maybe Oliver is being held over a open cavern and he knows the code to stop the weather machine that's going to destroy Star City, but MM or DD has a busloads of children they will kill if Oliver uses said code to save the city and someone says. "Let's let Twitter decide who lives or dies"

Wait....wasn't that in The Dark Knight?

Way back in the day (the 1980s) Denny O'Neil had the idea of allowing readers to vote on the fate of the incredibly unpopular Jason Todd Robin after he was beaten by the Joker and caught in an explosion. Fans called one number for him to live, another for him to die, and death won.

Would it be beyond Guggenheim to start aping Batman publicity gimmicks as well as copying all the stories? Probably not. So maybe they'll actually do a 'twitter decides!' cliffhanger for the finale.

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Artsda

Artsda

It might. I remember Amanda Tapping got to be on Stargate Atlantis after Stargate SG-1 ended to run out her contract. 

There's a difference CL, was just recurring she was never a contracted regular or main like KC is. Her fulfillment would be different than a recurring guest arc. CL being recurring means she didn't have a set in stone obligation, they could cut episodes or extend recucrring characters.

 

CL was fired too and she came back to the Flarrowverse. 

 

Look you all know I hate Laurel, I just am not 100% convinced she's gone for good. Laurel is the one in the grave for that we have proof. We don't have proof that she will never show up again. KC being a Flash episode is what makes me rethink it. I do hope it's just fulfilling her contractually obligated appearances. Then we are free from Laurel. 

CL was loved though, outage over losing her, wanting her back etc... Not really the case with KC. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I'm totally chill about KC showing up on The Flash. In part bc I mostly don't watch The Flash, but also, all the problems with THE ACTRESS don't magically go away bc they make THE CHARACTER different. I don't mean the rumors of unprofessional behavior, either; I mean the total lack of coordination and anti-chem with SA. They can't bring her to Arrow as the cool version of BC who can totally kick Oliver's butt, because THE ACTRESS can't even twirl a stick properly. It's not like they've been trying to make her look like crap in fight scenes this whole time...I'm sure they've done their best to make her fight scenes look cool. She just can't do it, and changing THE CHARACTER ain't gonna change that. Nor will it change the fact that SA still, for whatever reason, always wants to leave the room when she comes anywhere near him. It is what it is at this point.

 

So yeah, I'm guessing a one-off on Flash.

 

As a total aside, I've never bought that Oliver's actually dead on E2. I figured Robert saw him "die," just like Oliver saw Sara "die" several times. I'm figuring Oliver, maybe along with Sara, ended up with the LOA on E2.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I think this death is important enough within the bigger narrative of the three shows -- because time travel + alternate realities -- to be dealt with in the three shows. Flash needs to solve the "what if there's an alt!Laurel" problem, LoT has to solve the "what if Sara goes back in time and save Laurel" problem.

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hogwash

hogwash

It's kinda hilarious that Laurel stuff from 3 different shows got spoiled. Hopefully, E2 Laurel works. I hope she actually is a villain. I liked Killer Frost and Trajectory.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

So, there's this from Kreisberg:

 

Will we be seeing any more fun dopplegangers soon?

KREISBERG: We have a really exciting, fun doppleganger coming up in the penultimate episode of The Flash that we haven’t announced yet. That will be really cool. It’s surprisingly easy to justify any of these decisions. Usually, when we’re in the writers’ room and arguing the merits of doing something or not doing something, it comes down to, is it cool? Is it fun? Can we make the logic work? At the end of the day, the audience wants to see the fun thing. They want to see The Flash and Supergirl together, so he ran a little too fast. It wasn’t a lot of shoe leather to make it happen, and then you get 42 minutes of fun stuff.

 

And the guy in this tweet is Grant's stunt double, Cody, who retweeted her. Since they're fighting in that pic, seems like she is a villain over on E2.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Guest

Guest

I don't watch The Flash anymore but villain!Laurel would totally work. I've always thought she should go dark anyway. 

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

A whole episode of Cisco being frightened but turned on.

 

...now if they could get Golden Glider to fight LL and rescue him...his fantasies would be complete...

 

Edited by ComicFan777
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calliope1975

calliope1975

I'm going to be borderline pissed if Earth 2 Buckles is anything more than a one-off good bye to the actress and character. But, I'm going to trust in Velocity that soon my long national nightmare will be over. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

This is pretty funny. Well played, Canadian paparazzi. Well played.

 

E2 Laurel coming back to the show doesn't solve the problems with her character at all. She'll still be played by the same actress who has the same lack of chemistry with SA, and they'll still struggle to fit her into the narrative. I honestly don't think they could make it work beyond an episode or two.

 

So yeah, I do think this Flash appearance is a one-off to see out her contract, IMO. Just the fact that they're killing off the Black Canary at all makes me think this is more about the actress than the character tbh. 

Just to be sure, we are all certain that the Flash pics aren't just some April fools prank, right??  I mean I'm like 95% sure but it is that day to doubt everything.

 

So, there's this from Kreisberg:

 

 

And the guy in this tweet is Grant's stunt double, Cody, who retweeted her. Since they're fighting in that pic, seems like she is a villain over on E2.

If they are just running into her character for the first time then she might fight (try) the Flash not knowing he is a good guy.  She could have a early fight and then be helping Cisco with something.  It would be funnier if she kidnapped him though. 

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spartan

spartan

well, it depends on how she comes face to flash, cisco and wally. anyway as E1 laurel died, this new version has to be different, so I guess she will be more fun, so I wonder how they'll integer to the history of the flash, that's crazy

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Chaser

Chaser

I think this death is important enough within the bigger narrative of the three shows -- because time travel + alternate realities -- to be dealt with in the three shows. Flash needs to solve the "what if there's an alt!Laurel" problem, LoT has to solve the "what if Sara goes back in time and save Laurel" problem.

I take this to mean they don't ever want her back so they are closing all the doors.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I think this death is important enough within the bigger narrative of the three shows -- because time travel + alternate realities -- to be dealt with in the three shows. Flash needs to solve the "what if there's an alt!Laurel" problem, LoT has to solve the "what if Sara goes back in time and save Laurel" problem.

That makes perfect sense.

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Artsda

Artsda

 

Flash needs to solve the "what if there's an alt!Laurel" problem, LoT has to solve the "what if Sara goes back in time and save Laurel" problem.

I didn't find her that big of a character on Flash at all to be a problem over there. She's barely gone over there or matters to them. Where as LOT would have made more sense because of her sister and Ray and all the time traveling they do. 

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

*blushes* actually I feel like I'm missing something.. I get that they need to address why the can't go back in time and another Laurel from a different Earth won't pop up, but I'm not clear on why this specific death is important enough for all three shows. Would you mind expanding on that?

Edited by looptab
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Princess Vanellope

Princess Vanellope

CL wasn't fired. She was never signed on as a regular, so her recurring status ending due to her death had to do with the story they were writing. They didn't kill her off in the story because the fired her. If KC was fired, then the story was made to fit with what happened behind the scenes. They said at the beginning they didn't yet know who was in the grave. I'm sure she was on their short list, circumstances may have led to her termination, thus the story was written to reflect her no longer being employed with the show. CL, on the other hand, was brought back and made a regular on LoT. You don't bring back people you've fired. You just don't. Unless you're Aaron Spelling and didn't learn your lesson the first time around ;).

Side question: So if Robert is GA on E2, and we assume they might go more comic canon with this version of BC (meta, fighting skills, etc), does that mean she and Robert are....?

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I'm trying to decide whether to ask for leave next Thursday to recover from a celebratory hangover. Before I do that, though, what are people's thoughts re whether they'll end on a cliffhanger, with who's dead left ambiguous until 19?

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

I'm going with no cliffhanger too because of the doctor declaring the time of death in the promo. They could still have more than one person in critical condition like in Grey's Anatomy with Izzy and George and leaving us with the doubt but I'm going with no.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I didn't find her that big of a character on Flash at all to be a problem over there. She's barely gone over there or matters to them. Where as LOT would have made more sense because of her sister and Ray and all the time traveling they do. 

 

Laurel isn't important to The Flash. Laurel's death opens up a bigger question -- what if there's an E2 version of Laurel that they could use as a cheat to keep Laurel around? -- that will be addressed on The Flash because the showrunners have arbitrarily decided that alternate versions of characters are to be dealt with on that show.

 

*blushes* actually I feel like I'm missing something.. I get that they need to address why the can't go back in time and another Laurel from a different Earth won't pop up, but I'm not clear on why this specific death is important enough for all three shows. Would you mind expanding on that?

 

It's not about Laurel exactly, it's about death itself. The expanded universe ended up making death something less than it should be. There are no stakes if there are ways around dying. And the two more obvious ways they could cheat this death and have Laurel, or a variation there of, back are 1. time travel and 2. alternate version. And it so happens that those issues have been arbitrarily assigned by the showrunners to LoT and Flash, respectively.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Scribbles

Scribbles

Anyone else remember what seem like forever ago when one of the ep's said someone would float between all three shows?  Then along comes the death flash-forward idea.  Loose ends tying up and leaving a death will real consequences across the universe.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

 

That they will make the right decision and bring back E2 Laurel full time for S5 of Arrow or LoT or Flash....or BoP...

They finally were able to make the right decision to fire her, after the network insisted that they keep her. This is her swan song.

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