Spoiler Discussion Thread

[catrox14]

 

I think they said something about now that she knows Oliver's secret, she's going to be part of Team Arrow

 

Wait, when did they say this? That is just fucking stupid (not directed at you). This was exactly what I was dreading. Why does she have to be a part of Team Arrow just because she knows his identity? Det Lance most certainly knows even if he isn't telling or is in plausible denial land and he's not part of Team Arrow. 

 

This really makes me not want to watch and this has been my favorite must see show for the past two seasons.  What the hell are they thinking? That just sucks because Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Roy, and Sara have all fucking earned the right to be in the ArrowLair through deed and action, not just because they know he's the Arrow. ARGHHH!   /head desk head desk head desk.

[HighHopes]

Not sure if this belongs here or just in the speculation thread, but Caity Lotz retweeted information about fans wanting to trend "Caity Lotz is Black Canary". So Katie Cassidy might not know as much as she has been letting on after all? Surely if they had told Katie Cassidy that she would be becoming the Black Canary they would have told Caity Lotz that she wouldn't be?

Edited June 15, 2014 by HighHopes

[Starfish35]

As much as I'd like to get my hopes up, she probably just wants to support her fans. At least that's my guess.

[writersblock51]

What that tells me is that neither actress knows exactly what's happening in S3 at this point.

[SonofaBiscuit]

“So sitting in a Katie Cassidy panel in Sydney and not only did she all but confirm she will be Black Canary in Season 3 but also said that there is nothing between Oliver and Felicity.

So take from that what you will but she is definitely not a Felicity fan. She got really annoyed when she was asked an Olicity question.

 

 

I know that this is really not nice, but this is one of the reasons that I am so looking forward to panels that include Stephen Amell, EBR, and KC.  If there is anyone on here that knows anything about reading body language, I would be interested to get an interpretation of KC's body language and mannerisms towards other cast members and vice versa.   

 

These KC quotes from Sidney Comic Con are making me extremely ragey.  If this is not where the EPs are headed with Laurel's story, I wish they would shut this kind of talk down.  Since the aren't, it makes me think that we really are getting Laurel as Black Canary next season. 

 

"Paging Luke Mitchell, paging Luke Mitchell, your abs, oops, I mean your presence is requested on the set of Arrow."  Heh.

 

 

Hey now, wait a minute.  If Luke Mitchell becomes Felicity's love interest, I'm afraid that I'm going to end up liking him more than Oliver and I'll want Felicity and Daniel to be endgame.  Just please please please NO Robbie Amell.  I'm really afraid that it's going to be Robbie Amell since he's Stephen's cousin and he was involved in a Greg Berlanti show on the CW.

[BkWurm1]

Just please please please NO Robbie Amell.  I'm really afraid that it's going to be Robbie Amell since he's Stephen's cousin and he was involved in a Greg Berlanti show on the CW.

 

I heard that he's busy with a couple movie projects so I don't think he'd take the gig even if it was offered. 

[calliope1975]

Well, on the bright side, if Robbie Amell was cast as Daniel, it would probably not overtake my love of Olicity which could be possible if Luke Mitchell were in the role. While I didn't dislike RA on TTP, I wasn't very impressed with him either. 

 

Comic Con's the panel I'm interested in since that's the one that will have the EPs/writers. I enjoy hearing from the actors (well, some) but for the most part, they aren't the ones deciding which direction the show will take. I'm very interested in what's going to be announced at CC.

[FAU]

These KC quotes from Sidney Comic Con are making me extremely ragey.  If this is not where the EPs are headed with Laurel's story, I wish they would shut this kind of talk down.  Since the aren't, it makes me think that we really are getting Laurel as Black Canary next season.

 

I know and the Oliver/Laurel stuff is just making me cringe.  At least she's making it much easier to drop this show.

 

I'd love if Luke Mitchell joined the show though.

Edited June 16, 2014 by FAU

[tv echo]

Hey now, wait a minute.  If Luke Mitchell becomes Felicity's love interest, I'm afraid that I'm going to end up liking him more than Oliver and I'll want Felicity and Daniel to be endgame.

 

This is exactly what I meant by appeasing Olicity fans in my previous post above.  If the EPs decide to put Oliver and Laurel together and if it becomes clear the show is headed in that direction, then how do they not alienate and drive away Olicity fans?  They don't want to lose any viewers and there are many Olicity and/or Felicity fans out there.  Well, they put Felicity in another romantic relationship with a popular actor that fans can root for.

Edited June 16, 2014 by tv echo

[FAU]

This is exactly what I meant by appeasing Olicity fans in my previous post above.  If the EPs decide to put Oliver and Laurel together and if it becomes clear the show is headed in that direction, then how do they not alienate and drive away Olicity fans?  They don't want to lose any viewers and there are many Olicity and/or Felicity fans out there.  Well, they put Felicity in another romantic relationship with a popular actor that fans can root for.

 

I think they're probably going to string them along which I already felt they were starting to do and that's a really terrible thing to do to the fans.

[Velocity23]

I don't think the majority of Olicity fans will really accept this other guy as a permanent LI for Felicity. They seem pretty set on their Olicity ending. I am just imagining poor Stephen Amell have to act with KC for the great OTP that is O/L. I think i need to throw up now. 

I am guessing the casting is underway right now since they go back to shooting on 9th of July.

[BkWurm1]

I'm all for Olicity for Olicity's sake but I'm also all for it just so I don't have to shudder through O/L toxicity.

[Password]

I placed Oliver and Felicity in season one because Oliver and Laurel were just...ah. But season 2 kind of made me see Oliver and Felicity aren't just a good replacement for Lauriver but they make sense. I actually think the EPs hope Felicity and the new guy hit it off so well that Olicity fans move away from there and attach to the new couple. I don't mind Felicity genuinely liking this dude because Oliver's douche tendencies have made me really dislike him as a character, regardless of chemistry and whether or not Olicity make sense.

 

If the EPs don't want a good thing, that's on them.

[quarks]

Not attempting to snark here, because I'm genuinely curious: for those of you convinced that this show is going to swing back to Laurel/Oliver and end on that, can I ask why?

[tv echo]

I'm not 100% convinced, just fearful based on hints that the show will swing back to and end on Oliver/Laurel because of the following (largely related to Laurel becoming the Black Canary and comic book canon):

 

- Her name is Dinah Laurel Lance and Dinah was the Black Canary in the comics

- EP interview comments about Green Arrow and Black Canary being iconic like Clark and Lois
- EP interview comments about Oliver and Laurel breaking up and getting together repeatedly (don't recall exact words or which interview)

- One of the EPs wrote some of the Green Arrow/Black Canary comic book stories

- Sara handing the Canary jacket off the Laurel in the season 2 finale

- Sara telling Laurel that "Oliver needs you" in the season 2 finale

- Hints of Laurel "fighting" and shooting the bow in past seasons

- Katie Cassidy's comic con and past interview comments strongly implying that she'll become the Black Canary and outright saying that Laurel and Oliver belong together (or words to that effect) and that Arrow and Canary are together in the comics

- Giving Laurel lines like "I know you better than anyone" and "I know you in my bones like I know my own name" (I think even Oliver had a line in season 1 where he says to Laurel "you know me better than anyone")

Edited June 16, 2014 by tv echo

[Password]

I'm not convinced they've dropped Oliver and Laurel entirely. The problem is even in the comics, they break up to make up and Oliver cheats on her (that is not something I want to see happen at all). And they've achieved this, but now I fear it will carry on happening as hinted by Sara.

[writersblock51]

I think tv echo lists the reasons that I think the Oliver & Laurel pairing will - at the very least - be given another shot.  Disgusting as that seems to me.  That does NOT mean that they will utlmately stay together (because that's how it happened in the comics as well, *eye roll*). however.

 

I also think there are a lot of reasons why Oliver and Laurel will only remain friends from now on, because he's too messed up, she's too messed up, and his heart has never stayed faithful to hers.

 

I also think KC's comments need to be taken with a grain of salt, especially the ones that SA seems to counteract.  And if one of the leads is more in the know about what's happening (short and long term), I'd bet that it would be SA over KC.

 

As for Felicity and 'Daniel,' I'm also in the camp that thinks the show is hoping they hit it off strong.  I expect we'll hear of a chemstry test with EBR and whoever is finally cast in the role.

 

I'm not 100% sure, though, that the EPs want that as an ultimate pairing.  I think 'Daniel' is a recurring character, for one, thing.  And I think the show would be wise to NOT get bogged down with trying to balance another hero in the mix.  I read some speculation (i've lost track of which board, maybe this one?) that if 'Daniel' is Ted Kord, he'd potentially move over to a BoP spin off.  Not unlike the Flash.

 

Interesting that nothing has been mentioned as to casting for the baby mama.  Or is it safe to assume that it would be the same actress we briefly saw in S2?  I'd think so but I also haven't seen any mention of her in the publicity so far.

Edited June 16, 2014 by writersblock51

[Morrigan2575]

As for Felicity and 'Daniel,' I'm also in the camp that thinks the show is hoping they hit it off strong. I expect we'll hear of a chemstry test with EBR and whoever is finally cast in the role.

That's not much of a stretch, they Chem tested everyone post SA/KC debacle, SA/Caity, SA/Celina, Caity/Katrina, EBR/Grant, Grant/Iris (don't know the actress' name).

I fully expect a Chem test between EBR/Daniel as he's being brought on specifically to be Felicity's LI.

As for the EPs bringing the new character on to get Olicity fans out of the way, doesn't make sense since he's clearly being setup as an Oliver rival...dun dun dun Oliver/Felicity/Daniel triangle.

Also to go back to Smallville, couple of quick points, Oliver was supposed to be Chloe'a LI in S6 but they switched last minute and paired Oliver/Lois and Chloe/Jimmy. When Chlollie actually happened in S9 it wasn't to shut Chlarkers up by giving Chloe her own hero so Clois could happen. Chlollie was not part of some grand plan by the show runners in fact it was BQM and another EP/Writer that had to fight for the pairing because most didn't see it.

They cut the Chlollie scene in Hex so the audience didn't see it (I think it's a deleted scene on the DVD) the Roulette scene was written as a test run to prove to the writers room that it could work.

BQM gave this information away when he was reflecting on the Warrior anniversary. It showed up on a Chlollie community on LJ. I found the BTS stuff very interesting.

Also keep in mind that by the time Chlollie actually happened, Chloe had gone from crushing on Clark to that awful Jimmy relationship to Davis and finally to Oliver. That was S6-S9...pretty big difference between that and having Olicity go from ILY in 2.23 to oh hey look over here at the new hottie forget Olicity in 3.01!

Edited June 16, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[JenMD]

This is exactly what I meant by appeasing Olicity fans in my previous post above.  If the EPs decide to put Oliver and Laurel together and if it becomes clear the show is headed in that direction, then how do they not alienate and drive away Olicity fans?  They don't want to lose any viewers and there are many Olicity and/or Felicity fans out there.  Well, they put Felicity in another romantic relationship with a popular actor that fans can root for.

As an Olicity fan, having them not end up together would alienate me.  Full stop.  (Of course, putting L/O back together as endgame would alienate me, as well, so...) Giving Felicity a worthy love interest in "Daniel" is great and all, providing character development, all that fun stuff, but at the end of the day, if I'm an Olicity fan, I want them to end up together in the end. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by JenMD

[Lokiberry]

On Arrow, the EPs seem to think Lauriver is canon (nu52 be damned), and if that's the case, then I don't think they're done yet trying to make that work. That would explain the entire back half of this season, where they did everything they could think of to "rehabilitate" Laurel, and make the audience sympathize with her. Next season, they'll probably give up trying to do anything organically, and just shove her into the fishnets. They'll tell (not show) us that she's super sexy, and awesome, and the only one who understands Oliver.

 

If Felicity is still seen as "in the running" for Oliver, they'll have knock her down to lift up Laurel, because it's not like Laurel could ever prove she's awesome by being, you know,  awesome. She's going to have to step on her rivals. If they are truly intent on pursuing Lauriver in all it's trainwreck glory; then I'd rather Felicity be moved out of the way of that until the ambulances, fire trucks, and Homeland Security leave, and the clean up crew comes into clear away the wreckage.

 

I honestly think the best thing that could happen right now, is for them to just go ahead and do Lauriver and Laurel-as-BC, and let the chips fall where they may (on landmines, most likely). There'll be no more illusions, no more "this is canon, so everyone has to accept it". They'll see the audience reaction for themselves,

[icandigit]

 

Not attempting to snark here, because I'm genuinely curious: for those of you convinced that this show is going to swing back to Laurel/Oliver and end on that, can I ask why?

I don't have logical answer. Its more of a gut level thing. I've watched too much tv in my life. So because tv. As much as i would prefer not to see it, they have to do something with these two.i prefer they just be friends who barely talk or hang out. but i think because of tv they have to either go back and forth with each other. Or have one last at least short term relationship to end things for good. i hate them but i think the show has to deal with them. Unless they get rid of her.

 

I'm not sure what to think in regards to Olicity. I think the writers like writing the relationship and the EP's enjoy it so I don't know if it will be pushed aside.  Its not just a cute little shipper thing, their relationship is entangled with the hero, fighting bad guys element of the show. Unless they separate them, they are gonna keep sparking off each other, no matter how many Daniels they throw in.

[dtissagirl]

They cut the Chlollie scene in Hex so the audience didn't see it (I think it's a deleted scene on the DVD) the Roulette scene was written as a test run to prove to the writers room that it could work.

BQM gave this information away when he was reflecting on the Warrior anniversary. It showed up on a Chlollie community on LJ. I found the BTS stuff very interesting.

 

Ha. That convo BQM had on twitter about the origins of Chloe/Ollie was actually with me. *g*

 

I can see the overall similarities between Felicity and Chloe, and how they relate to both Olivers, but I really do have a hard time comparing Arrow's Oliver to anyone on Smallville, really. If I had to compare Oliver/Felicity to another couple from super hero media, it definitely would be Tony Stark/Pepper Potts.

 

But to return to topic. They're bringing Daniel as a LI for Felicity and a rival to Oliver, and they're bringing back Oliver's baby mama at some point in the season too. I can see both of those characters as obstacles to Oliver/Felicity happening in S3. I'm fine with that, it's how every soap opera in the world works. But if they use *Laurel* as an obstacle to F/O -- which, up to this point, she was never used for, THEN I'm gonna headdesk until kingdom come, because it'd be just plain stupid to legitimally pitch Laurel against Felicity onscreen.

[KirkB]

I honestly think the best thing that could happen right now, is for them to just go ahead and do Lauriver and Laurel-as-BC, and let the chips fall where they may (on landmines, most likely). There'll be no more illusions, no more "this is canon, so everyone has to accept it". They'll see the audience reaction for themselves,

 

   I agree. It seems the people calling the shots (whether that be the EPs, the WB, DC or whoever) are insistent that Laurel be both in a relationship with Oliver and the Black Canary. Yet the people who actually make the show don't seem to be entirely sure how to make Laurel work. At least a portion of the audience doesn't seem to like her, though I have no idea what percentage of the audience that is, and I'm uncertain how much of the audiences viewpoint the showrunners are aware of or care about. So if Laurel as BC is meant to be, regardless of whether she will be with Oliver on a personal level, they should just go ahead and full stop do it already. As ridiculous as it might be for her to try and replace Sara, if putting on the fishnets and fighting crime gives Laurel a direction and some actual character growth it might be worth it. On the other hand, if it fails miserably (and who knows, maybe Katie can pull it off) the Laurel supporters might finally turn on her because at that point even they realize it isn't going to work and the showrunners will be forced to give up and try something else. At least that way they and we would finally KNOW.

[tv echo]

Hmm... the comments above made me consider a possible direction that the EPs might go: 

 

Season 3 - Laurel's journey toward becoming the Black Canary is charted (however ridiculous).  She becomes even closer to Oliver and becomes an ally/member of Team Arrow, but doesn't hook up with him again romantically.  Oliver and Felicity's relationship is explored, with 'Daniel' and Oliver's baby mama posing obstacles, and with a possible actual hook-up, but ultimately they decide to stay friends and partners.  

 

Season 4 - Laurel/Black Canary and Oliver/Green Arrow get back together romantically.

 

Season 5 - Laurel and Oliver break up for good, and Oliver and Felicity end up together. [OR] Laurel and Oliver stay together, and Felicity ends up with someone else.

 

Pure speculation at this point.

Edited June 16, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Ha. That convo BQM had on twitter about the origins of Chloe/Ollie was actually with me. *g*

 

Wow, small world. I loved reading that stuff because it was different from the story I originally heard.  Originally we were told that Chlollie happened in Warrior because of the actors throwing in that hand holding scene at the end of Roulette and fans going nuts over AM/JH's chemistry.  So it was really interesting to get a reflection of the BTS events that showed EPs/Writers actually fighting for it as far back as S8.

 

I honestly think the best thing that could happen right now, is for them to just go ahead and do Lauriver and Laurel-as-BC, and let the chips fall where they may (on landmines, most likely). There'll be no more illusions, no more "this is canon, so everyone has to accept it". They'll see the audience reaction for themselves,

 

I wonder if that's exactly what they're doing?  I really don't know, I can't see how these EPs who have repeatedly made it a point (in and out of show) that characters have to go through a long evolutionary process that involves suffering and major life altering situations in order to become a vigilante/hero or villain...just not Laurel.  How do they think the fans will react?  Do they think no one will care?  Because at this point it's not just about characters/actors/ships it's about totally destroying everything you've done with your Hero in order to prop up a failing character.  

 

Oliver needed to go through 5 years of hell, training, being stripped of his humanity to become a Vigilante and then spend 3 years slowly learning how to become a hero, to regain his humanity but Laurel she just magically going to be the bestest costumed hero ever because why again? Comics? 

Edited June 16, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Lokiberry]

 

Oliver needed to go through 5 years of hell, training, being stripped of his humanity to become a Vigilante and then spend 3 years slowly learning how to become a hero, to regain his humanity but Laurel she just magically going to be the bestest costumed hero ever because why again? Comics?

Because of the miscasting of KC as Laurel, and their deeply crappy writing of the character, nothing at this point is going to realistically make Laurel into a believable BC; so, they're just going to handwave her into the role? Now, I don't want them to do this, but if  they're hellbent on making it happen, then they should just go and do it, and get it out of their system. That way, if it's the unmitigated disaster so many of us think it will be, they can see that for themselves and move on with something that works. IMHO, it's better for it to happen  this way, then for them to spend the rest of the series twisting everything up into knots trying in vain to make Show!Laurel into Comics!Dinah.

[catrox14]

I don't really see how introducing "Daniel' appeases Olicity fans.  Olicity means they want Oliver and Felicity together.  Bringing in a new love interest for Felicity drives them further apart. 

[BkWurm1]

Season 3 - Laurel's journey toward becoming the Black Canary is charted (however ridiculous). She becomes even closer to Oliver and becomes an ally/member of Team Arrow, but doesn't hook up with him again romantically. Oliver and Felicity's relationship is explored, with 'Daniel' and Oliver's baby mama posing obstacles, and with a possible actual hook-up, but ultimately they decide to stay friends and partners.

I suspect that season three will START with Oliver and Felicity (specifically Felicity) deciding to stay friends and partners (Since Amell said the I Love You question would be addresses early in the season) and then bring in the love interests to stir things up while keeping them apart and either end on an Olicity note or just end the love interests setting Olicity to be explored in a following season.

[icandigit]

 

I don't really see how introducing "Daniel' appeases Olicity fans.  Olicity means they want Oliver and Felicity together.  Bringing in a new love interest for Felicity drives them further apart.

 

Olicity fans see it as part of the process. They want a slow burn and a good story, Not all of them are clamoring for Olicity now.

Edited June 16, 2014 by icandigit

[Sunshine]

Although the description for Daniel seems to emphasize the LI for Felicity I think the emphasis will probably be as a  rival for Oliver.  There will be a triangle with Oliver/Felicity/Daniel but that could be as much about superhero stuff (Arrow's job is easier with Felicity than without) or it could be romantic.  Right now Felicity appears to be at Oliver's beck and call. (If you assume this is a long term arc with resolution in the last episode or two of the season, KC might not seem so delusional when she says there is no Oliver & Felicity.)

 

After the mansion and beach scenes in 2.23 it would be pretty standard trope to bring on a love interest for Felicity to get Oliver to reexamine his "because of the life I lead I just think it's better not to be with someone I could really care about" stance. Normally that would have him realize he loves Felicity.  In this case it may be simply to recognize that he too can have a personal life with someone he cares about if both Felicity and Diggle have such relationships.  I say this because I do not think the EPs/writers have closed any doors to who his romantic pairing(s) will be.  If they go with Felicity I don't think there will be any on again/off again.  It would just be a steady progression.  With Laurel, Sara, or even Helena I could see them trying again.  (I only see Sara happening again though if they can't make Laurel work as BC). I did think the hallway scene in 2x14 Time of Death might just be to kill the old O/L relationship so that they might begin building a new healthier one.

 

The EPs have never backed off Laurel becoming BC.  AK said at the end of 2.23 we would know who was going to be the definitive BC.  Sarah handed off the jacket.  They also had Laurel and Helena bonding over dead loved ones in the BOP episode.  I think they aren't talking about it because they know it's not popular and they really aren't promoting Season 3 at the moment.   All we have really seen so far is some casting call descriptions.  This will change about the same time as SDCC.  KC is promoting herself.  I don't care for her but I recognize and respect that she has fans.  Since they like to do things sooner rather than later I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing her as early as 3.01.  Not looking forward to it but I could easily see them choosing that route.  If they pull this off without losing too many viewers I could easily see them trying to do GA/BC again.  I think Season 3 will be make or break for me.

[Password]

Right now Felicity appears to be at Oliver's beck and call. (If you assume this is a long term arc with resolution in the last episode or two of the season, KC might not seem so delusional when she says there is no Oliver & Felicity.)

 

Normally that would have him realize he loves Felicity.  In this case it may be simply to recognize that he too can have a personal life with someone he cares about if both Felicity and Diggle have such relationships.

 

These are really good points. We assume the personal rivalry between Oliver and the new guy will involve Felicity in a romantic space. But Oliver seeing Felicity and Diggle in working, romantic relationships may be what tips the scales for Oliver concerning "because of the life that I lead." It would seem very repetitive if Oliver had a snit fit again because Felicity has a life outside of the Arrowcave as he did when she visited Barry Allen. Or as they did with Diggle in Russia when Oliver backed him up and redeemed his leave-Diggle-in-the-dust-for-Laurel thing in s1, it could show Oliver growing and being supportive of Felicity's new relationship.

 

The personal rivalry could also be Felicity working for Daniel and taking time away from Team Arrow.

 

Diggle being a father and taking care of his child would be an added bonus because I assume his child will appear so Oliver can see Diggle, who also puts his life in danger, have a semi-normal life.

 

Of course, I don't think they'll necessarily leave Oliver and Felicity alone entirely. But @Sunshine raises very valid points concerning Oliver's own personal growth. Season 2 he grew into a hero. Now, his personal life needs work, hence the more intimate season 3.

Edited June 16, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[SonofaBiscuit]

The EPs just have to make sure that they don't do too good of a job with regards to the casting of Daniel.  I'll admit, I'm down with Olicity, but I could be swayed to abandon that if Daniel is played by an actor that I like and someone who has great chemistry with EBR.  The EPs have to cast someone that fans like, but they have to make sure that fans don't prefer him more than Oliver (if Daniel is meant to be a roadblock to an Olicity relationship).  If Luke Mitchell or Max Brown are their casting choices, well goodbye Oliver!  

Edited June 16, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[abhi]

If the "Daniel" guy is also single in real life and has good friendship and chemistry with EBR, then I think everyone should be ready for reel and real life shipping which tends to be more vocal and aggressive.

[Sunshine]

I don't think they will leave Oliver & Felicity alone entirely either.  There is a loud vocal fan base that might revolt.  LOL!  I personally hope they don't and wouldn't be upset if it is romantic.  I just think that personal could be as much about being the Arrow as about a romantic angle.  It also gives the EPs a chance to bring another comic book superhero to life. Said superhero might even get more emphasis than Felicity based on the past introduction of such characters.  One thing I can say for Felicity, she sure can pick 'em -Arrow, The Flash, New Superhero (Blue Beetle is speculation I am seeing).

 

 According to SA -who at least seems to have an idea of what is going on-Season 3 is about humanity lost (flashbacks) and humanity found (how much does Oliver want back). 

Edited June 16, 2014 by Sunshine

[Orion]

The EPs just have to make sure that they don't do too good of a job with regards to the casting of Daniel.  I'll admit, I'm down with Olicity, but I could be swayed to abandon that if Daniel is played by an actor that I like and someone who has great chemistry with EBR.  The EPs have to cast someone that fans like, but they have to make sure that fans don't prefer him more than Oliver.  If Luke Mitchell or Max Brown are their casting choices, well goodbye Oliver!  

That's a worry I have too but at least I can set your mind at ease over Max Brown - he's the lead actor in a new FOX series that got picked up called Hieroglyph so he won't be available.  In the end, I think the fans are invested enough in Oliver and Felicity and in the chemistry the EBR and SA have together that they will stick with it. Barry was cute but very few people "shipped" it beyond just wanting Felicity to have a love interest.

[Password]

I won't lie, Max Brown is a good looking guy. He was almost more good looking than Vincent on Beauty and The Beast. That smile. But anyway, Olicity must be a lot more fun to write than any of the other couples. I would love to see them expand on how Oliver adds to Felicity's life.

[statsgirl]

'Daniel' is "a handsome, enigmatic and highly intelligent entrepreneur developing groundbreaking technology. (Picture a business magnate in Ryan Gosling’s body.) Though exuding charm and confidence in public, he privately harbors a tragic past that will drive him to become a tech-powered superhero. Watch for this formidable fella to be a love interest for Felicity and a rival of Oliver’s – both personally and professionally."

 

So while he will be a romantic interest for Felicity, that's only going to be a part of the rivalry/parallel with Oliver -- the business magnate (CEO?) and superhero are the other two legs of it.  Even the tragic past mirrors Oliver's tragic past.  Like Barry, who came on board with all sort of hype about his relationship with Felicity but it ended up being about Barry&Oliver instead, it sounds like Daniel's going to be there to shake up Oliver in a number of ways.  I doubt he's permanent for Felicity, not at this point at least.  There is just too much going for Oliticy.

 

Which is the better option, in my opinion.  As much as I like the shippy parts, they are a sinking sand basis on which to build a story.

 

 

Not attempting to snark here, because I'm genuinely curious: for those of you convinced that this show is going to swing back to Laurel/Oliver and end on that, can I ask why?

Fear.

 

I don't think the show will end on Laurivier, or if it does I won't be around to see it, but I'm girding my loins that they will revisit it fairly soon, possibly while Felicity is involved with Daniel (another reason to bring him on now) so the Felicity and Olicity fans don't firebomb the writers' room.

[quarks]

It seems the people calling the shots (whether that be the EPs, the WB, DC or whoever) are insistent that Laurel be both in a relationship with Oliver and the Black Canary.

 

 

As much as i would prefer not to see it, they have to do something with these two.

 

 

And here's where I find myself kinda spinning - since I'm having one conversation with fans here, and other conversations elsewhere, and I have to say, it's like everyone is on two different planets. Though I also find it absolutely fascinating that we can all watch the same show, hear the same interviews, hear only slightly different (and in both cases completely unconfirmed) rumors, and reach totally opposite conclusions.

 

But thanks for everyone's explanations.

 

Anyway, my own, probably wrong, thoughts:

 

I agree that it does look as if Laurel will be the Black Canary next season - quite possibly as soon as the first episode, based on comments from the showrunners, Cassidy's comments, the bit with Oliver's bow, and the jacket scene.  That I think has been set up - if not well - and hinted at.

 

But I don't think it follows that Laurel will be romantically involved with Oliver again - if ever.  Those are separate things. I'm not seeing any insistence from the EPs and the show that Laurel will be romantically involved with Oliver ever again. I am seeing that from Cassidy, but from the EPs and the writers, as I've argued elsewhere, I'm seeing sign after sign that they have no such intention. The rest of the cast, for what little that's worth (nothing) seem to be pro Oliver/Felicity.

 

Daniel's introduction seems to just emphasize this. He's not being introduced as a love interest for Laurel and thus a rival for Oliver - as Tommy was in the first season, and as the show hinted that both the ADA and Blood would be in the second season. (That kinda flopped, but at least Blood ended up being opposed to Oliver, so, kinda there.) He's not being introduced as just a love interest for Felicity. He's being introduced the way Barry was last season - as a potential hero, a love interest for Felicity, and a rival for Oliver on more than one level.  If the idea was really just to find someone for Felicity so that Oliver and Laurel could get back together, I think it would be announced very differently.  

 

And sure, if fans end up loving Daniel and Felicity together - and they might - plans can change again. Maybe. Fans liked Felicity and Barry together too, but EBR and Felicity seem to be staying on Arrow. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by quarks

[Starfish35]

moving my response to quarks to the Relationships thread.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Starfish35

[KirkB]

I agree that just because Laurel is (most likely) going to be the Black Canary, and soon, it does not immediately follow that she and Oliver have to be together again. Even Sara's whole "he needs you" line doesn't necessarily mean sexually or romantically. Laurel does fill an important space in Oliver's life, regardless of whether they are getting horizontal or not, and he does kind of need her. He also needs Diggle and Felicity, again in different ways. Romance is not an important target for Oliver right now, he's more concerned with protecting Starling, but I think what he went through with Slade and Felicity has shown him that the possibility does exist for him in the future, when he's ready.

[dtissagirl]

As I was catching up with this thread, I had a thought: their original plan was clearly Laurel = Black Canary, and thus Laurel/Oliver endgame because comics. But since Laurel hasn't worked as either hero material or love interest for two seasons now, maybe the TPTB's compromise is she can be Black Canary [because comics], but they'll hold on the shipping endgame part, because that's the most vocal part of the audience, and they're definitely yelling something else.

Edited June 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[shadow2008]

Not attempting to snark here, because I'm genuinely curious: for those of you convinced that this show is going to swing back to Laurel/Oliver and end on that, can I ask why?

 

For me, it's just a simple conclusion. The writers hooked Oliver up with their proto-Canary (Sara), so it stands to reason that they would want to pair him off with the real thing (Laurel). It may or may not last, but I'm sure that Oliver and Laurel will happen again in some form once she has earned the BC moniker.

[BkWurm1]

For me, it's just a simple conclusion. The writers hooked Oliver up with their proto-Canary (Sara), so it stands to reason that they would want to pair him off with the real thing (Laurel). It may or may not last, but I'm sure that Oliver and Laurel will happen again in some form once she has earned the BC moniker.

I tend to agree.  I don't think the pairing has to be endgame, but I don't think its done being tried out.  When I thought that KC might not survive the season I assumed Lauriver was dead but if she's not going anywhere than the  show runners aren't going to ignore a possible playmate for Oliiver.    It will blow up in their faces big time IMO, a couple that full of baggage can't help but implode but then that's the part I'm looking forward to.   

[dtissagirl]

If they're bringing Daniel as a LI for Felicity so that the audience is distracted enough for Oliver to get back with Laurel, then they'll have to 1. cast someone who has equal or more chemistry with EBR than Amell, which is no easy feat, and 2. figure out a way to do it so that it doesn't look like Oliver went back to Laurel *because* he can't be with Felicity.

 

Otherwise they'll just end up making Laurel look bad again, which I admit I don't care, but it'll make Oliver look bad AGAIN, which in mid-S2 was bad enough to deal with.

[Password]

The problem for me is I don't see why they were together in the first place. The two of them, if they got back together, would literally be together on fumes. Fumes being the fact that they used to be together. I'm curious to see how Laurel knowing he's the Arrow will effect their relationship because she just has to realise how little she knows about Oliver right now, and that what she knew about him in all probability doesn't exist anymore.

 

Very curious.

 

 

Otherwise they'll just end up making Laurel look bad again, which I admit I don't care, but it'll make Oliver look bad AGAIN, which in mid-S2 was bad enough to deal with.

 

Yes, yes and yes.

Edited June 16, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I'll never understand what Laurel saw in Oliver way back in the first place, but this just reminded me -- if Oliver and Laurel get back together and Oliver's baby mama shows up, then what? Laurel does the math on the kid and forgives Oliver because she knows him in her bones? Any scenario I can think up here ends up making both O and L look bad, sorry.

Edited June 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

Maybe because Laurel has turned into an angel without any malice through the writers choice, she will calmly accept it and say "it's your past. We're moving forward now."

And then I start burning TVs.

[statsgirl]

Laurel will forgive him because he's a hero and she knew that all along, even when she was turning two blind eyes to his screwing around and dropping out of four schools and just generally being a douche. She believed in him, and this is her reward.

 

I think at this point there is no way they can make O and L look good.  But since this is a CW show, all bets are off.

 

And here's where I find myself kinda spinning - since I'm having one conversation with fans here, and other conversations elsewhere, and I have to say, it's like everyone is on two different planets.

Nobody that I know in the outside world (people I talk face-to-face to or even in individual e-mails) like Oliver/Laurel or even think Laurel is a good character.  But then I listen to the EPs and it is like being on a different planet.

 

The rest of the cast, for what little that's worth (nothing) seem to be pro Oliver/Felicity.

If I were an EP, and Lauriver was the endgame, I would tell the rest of the cast to cool it on the Olicity promotion because it would be setting up an expectation that was going to fail, or at least to mention Laurel and Oliver too. But then, I'm not one of the EPs.

 

I can see them thinking they would try Laurel out as BC next season and see what  happens, leaving Oliver/Felicity in the background because that has turned into a bigger part of the show.  But after seeing Caity Lotz do Canary and KC play Laurel, it's hard to see how that would work.  I can't see Laurel in the new Arrow lair. She won't be good enough to spar with Oliver or Diggle.  Will she be put with Roy?  That seems kind of bizarre to me.

 

Still thinking that Laurel and Oliver will get back together, either while Felicity is with Daniel or in the middle part of the season.  Mid-season was the messed-up part of s2, so maybe that's when it will happen in s3.

Edited June 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[Password]

The writers do tend to throw bizarre happenings in (Oliver and Laurel hooking up in s1, the whole of the second half of s2) so I'm now actually expecting this story to unfold. Because conveniently Felicity is busy with Max Brown. I mean the Blue Beetle.

[quarks]

Nobody that I know in the outside world (you know, people I talk face-to-face to or even in individual e-mails) like Oliver/Laurel or even think Laurel is a good character.  But then I listen to the EPs and it is like being on a different planet.

 

 

Heh.

 

The completely opposite reactions I'm talking about are coming from industry pros (not anyone working on Arrow). It's fascinating to see how everyone's experiences are creating totally different reactions here - and different reactions to the EPs statements, too. As you said, different planet.