Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Primal Slayer]

Word on the street (ie Reddit) is that Curtis leaves TA in ep.9.

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Word on the street (ie Reddit) is that Curtis leaves TA in ep.9.

I wonder if it's because of more business fighting with Felicity? 

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Word on the street (ie Reddit) is that Curtis leaves TA in ep.9.

Don't get my hopes up. 

Everything about Curtis is annoying me this season. 

[tangerine95]

If only Curtis was leaving for good.I seriously can't stand him anymore.That's probably the start of the OTA vs newbies stuff and the others might follow him out as well.

[leopardprint]

Was the Nazi-free promo set to jaunty rock music the only Arrow crossover promo? Or was there another one that I missed yesterday?

Edited November 24, 2017 by leopardprint

[Belinea]

37 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Everything about Curtis is annoying me this season. 

I mean before Curtis they had Felicity do all the stuff one probably shouldn't be able to do, you know what I mean. So it is not like he isn't expandable in that sense. But I have to be honest, he is rather bland and annoying to me these days. Basically all of the newbies could be recurring for all I care, I am not that emotionally invested. 

[bijoux]

I’ve just been thinking about this OTA/NTA divide. I can imagine how Curtis and Dinah might splinter off, but what about Rene? He’s really been pretty mellow and cool this year, what prompts him? I’d say it’s just a sense of connection with the newer generation, but he’s spending most of his time with Oliver really, and seems to respect him.

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I’ve just been thinking about this OTA/NTA divide. I can imagine how Curtis and Dinah might splinter off, but what about Rene? He’s really been pretty mellow and cool this year, what prompts him? I’d say it’s just a sense of connection with the newer generation, but he’s spending most of his time with Oliver really, and seems to respect him.

From the reddit post mentioning that Rene gets reunited with his kid, I'm wondering if it might be a conflict concerning their kids, like the issue that was thought that would have come up with Diggle being the GA. However the difference this case being that Diggle was always out in the field and always going to be in the field while being a parent while Rene didn't have to worry about that balance just yet until presumably recently. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I wonder if The CW PR is going to hold off releasing 609 photos until after the crossover. Otherwise, there won't be any Olicity reception stuff, I'm guessing. I mean, they held back the Diggle as Green Arrow photos from episode 2(?), I think.

Edited November 24, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[bijoux]

42 minutes ago, way2interested said:

From the reddit post mentioning that Rene gets reunited with his kid, I'm wondering if it might be a conflict concerning their kids, like the issue that was thought that would have come up with Diggle being the GA. However the difference this case being that Diggle was always out in the field and always going to be in the field while being a parent while Rene didn't have to worry about that balance just yet until presumably recently. 

I must have missed or forgotten that one. Thanks.

[LeighAn]

6x09 then. 

Now does Stephen know the person means dessert as euphemism? Haha 

[Mellowyellow]

I doubt we're going to get a full blown "dessert" scene again but it is nice to hope! 

[leopardprint]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

I doubt we're going to get a full blown "dessert" scene again but it is nice to hope! 

Maybe a post-reception carried over the threshold honeymoon suite scene?

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, leopardprint said:

Maybe a post-reception carried over the threshold honeymoon suite scene?

OMG I would delete all my precious fanfics to see him carry her bridal style onscreen!!!!! While they are being happy! Not injure carry! 

Now that you have out it out there in the universe I will cry if this doesn't happen! I will cry and blame you!!!!!!!!!!

[leopardprint]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

OMG I would delete all my precious fanfics to see him carry her bridal style onscreen!!!!! While they are being happy! Not injure carry! 

Now that you have out it out there in the universe I will cry if this doesn't happen! I will cry and blame you!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure they have the budget for a honeymoon suite. You might have to settle for a carry into Oliver's room (that he may or may not share with Myson since that apartment layout is baffling). 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, leopardprint said:

I'm not sure they have the budget for a honeymoon suite. You might have to settle for a carry into Oliver's room (that he may or may not share with Myson since that apartment layout is baffling). 

I just want a bridal carry! I don't care where to be honest! Lol I am personally holding you responsible for any disappointment I feel in 609

=P 

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

6x09 then. 

Now does Stephen know the person means dessert as euphemism? Haha 

She mentioned the 9PM timeslot, so he better understand what she's implying! ;)

[strikera0]

If I remember correctly, some people on here wanted to know the writing credits for each specfic crossover episode this year. According to CW New York, it breaks down as the following:

Crisis on Earth-X, Part 1: Andrew Kreisberg, Marc Guggenheim, Robert Rovner, Jessica Queller (Director: Larry Teng)

Crisis on Earth-X, Part2: Marc Guggenheim, Andrew Kreisberg, Wendy Mericle, Ben Sokolowski (Director: James Bamford)

Crisis on Earth-X, Part 3: Andrew Kreisberg, Marc Guggenheim, Todd Helbing (Director: Dermott Downs)

The info for part 4 is missing, but I can check again a couple of days from now. 

[apinknightmare]

Part 4 is written by Phil Klemmer and Keto Shimizu and directed by Gregory Smith.

[Velocity23]

I am just glad Bamford isnt directing 609. 

[Belinea]

Not so spoilery and maybe that makes me a bad person but I wish they'd fire AK already. After all these things it feels as though they are buying time and reading his name in the writing credits for the crossover does make me slightly uncomfortable. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Belinea

[SmallScreenDiva]

If they really wanted a 4-hour movie, like they've been touting, why the heck are there 4 different sets of writers and directors? 

[Balaclava]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

I am just glad Bamford isnt directing 609. 

I'm just glad he isn't directing the wedding :p

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Not so spoilery and maybe that makes me a bad person but I wish they'd fire AK already. Are all these things it feels as though they are buying time and reading his name in the writing credits for the crossover does make me slightly uncomfortable. 

Firing him still wouldn't remove his name from the credits, and credits and contracts are probably the reason it's taking so long. Although MG writing on Supergirl and Flash is more of what threw me off since he's not even a producer on either of them, instead of say LoT which is one of his shows and letting only LoT people write two other couples' vows/weddings/etc. (yeah Keto was on Arrow, but she works on LoT now which makes the decision to put only them in charge of wrap up make sense but permanent plot points for other shows not).

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

If they really wanted a 4-hour movie, like they've been touting, why the heck are there 4 different sets of writers and directors? 

To keep production on track I guess? Organizing them may be complicated now but I can't imagine how saddling say just GB, MG, and AK on drafts, rewrites, etc. and then figuring out whose production team is doing what without forcing one production to do all of the work (along with one tv director to do multiple weeks of rehearsing, shooting, assisting in editing, reshoots, etc. all possibly for disproportionate pay instead of 4 directors for regular semi-regular schedule and regular pay). 

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

I am just glad Bamford isnt directing 609. 

Yeah, I'm meh on Laura Belsey but not as upset as I would be if he was doing the mideseason finale.

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

MG writing on Supergirl and Flash is more of what threw me off since he's not even a producer on either of them, instead of say LoT which is one of his shows and letting only LoT people write two other couples' vows/weddings/etc. (yeah Keto was on Arrow, but she works on LoT now which makes the decision to put only them in charge of wrap up make sense but permanent plot points for other shows not).

Yeah, this was one of my concerns when we first learned the weddings would be on LoT. Hopefully the writers who know the two couples the best actually wrote the vows/wedding part? (Not holding my breath though, to be honest.)

[thegirlsleuth]

44 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, this was one of my concerns when we first learned the weddings would be on LoT. Hopefully the writers who know the two couples the best actually wrote the vows/wedding part? (Not holding my breath though, to be honest.)

That's ok. Stephen will rewrite the vows if they don't work for him.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm curious how this "Felicity doesn't want to marry Oliver" plays out ... like, does Oliver actually propose? Is it something that one of the guests at the wedding brings up and Felicity is like "no, thanks"?

[way2interested]

Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm curious how this "Felicity doesn't want to marry Oliver" plays out ... like, does Oliver actually propose? Is it something that one of the guests at the wedding brings up and Felicity is like "no, thanks"?

From what it sounds like, I think it just comes up in conversation and then Felicity expresses that she doesn't want to get married/why not, and then some sort of feelings/thoughts get expressed or resolved in the Olicity scenes that the reddit guy seemed oh so willing to describe.

[johntfs]

On 11/22/2017 at 4:13 PM, leopardprint said:

The use of historical newsreel footage in that promo...was that really necessary?

Necessary, maybe not, but it was appropriate.  You can't really have a bit about "The Nazis won WWII" without showing the actual Nazis and Hitler.  It's kind of cool to give us a bit of a reminder that in our actual real history there was a group that kind of attained "supervillain" status.

Edited November 26, 2017 by johntfs

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Necessary, maybe not, but it was appropriate.  You can't really have a bit about "The Nazis won WWII" without showing the actual Nazis and Hitler.  It's kind of cool to give us a bit of a reminder that in our actual real history there was a group that kind of attained "supervillain" status.

I wouldn't say it's cool and calling them "supervillains" implies they were cartoonish. More like I think it's there to remind us that yes Nazis were (are) real and genocidal and awful. Whether it needed to be there is a different story.

Edited November 26, 2017 by catrox14

[calliope1975]

It's really not cool that millions were slaughtered for a garbage ideology that seems to be gaining a mainstream foothold once again. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

24 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Necessary, maybe not, but it was appropriate.  You can't really have a bit about "The Nazis won WWII" without showing the actual Nazis and Hitler.  It's kind of cool to give us a bit of a reminder that in our actual real history there was a group that kind of attained "supervillain" status.

I get reminded of it every day these days, so I've difficulty finding it "kind of cool." Especially with NYT seemingly trying its best to make Nazis acceptable.

[Featherhat]

53 minutes ago, way2interested said:

From what it sounds like, I think it just comes up in conversation and then Felicity expresses that she doesn't want to get married/why not, and then some sort of feelings/thoughts get expressed or resolved in the Olicity scenes that the reddit guy seemed oh so willing to describe.

Kind of makes sense if you consider what happened last time they tried it and they're happy as they are now. Plus it gives them a storyline and a couple of "twists" for the episodes.

I don't necessarily mind them showing footage or "footage" from a Nazis won WWII, plenty of films and TV shows have done so, it really just depends how it's done. 

Kind of like I don't really care if EX Oliver and Kara are together, I just don't want to deal with people (okay mostly Reddit et al) going on about the (theoretically and subjectively) awesome Nazi's in Love storyline, which could get really ugly really fast. 

[Balaclava]

25 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Kind of makes sense if you consider what happened last time they tried it and they're happy as they are now. Plus it gives them a storyline and a couple of "twists" for the episodes.

I don't necessarily mind them showing footage or "footage" from a Nazis won WWII, plenty of films and TV shows have done so, it really just depends how it's done. 

Kind of like I don't really care if EX Oliver and Kara are together, I just don't want to deal with people (okay mostly Reddit et al) going on about the (theoretically and subjectively) awesome Nazi's in Love storyline, which could get really ugly really fast. 

I guess i do mind them showing real WW2 footage, sure plenty of films and TV shows have done it but they're using said images for shock value and entertainment, it's not a documentary but a comic book show, there's no educational value to it.

Same, i also don't care if  EX Oliver and Kara are together however it makes me uncomfortable having to see my fav SH on TV be a nazi because EX or not it's still Oliver's face i'll be looking at.  

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

If they really wanted a 4-hour movie, like they've been touting, why the heck are there 4 different sets of writers and directors? 

With Kriesberg and Guggenheims' names listed first on the episodes, I get the impression they basically wrote the main through lines and turned over other parts of it to other writers.  

[Featherhat]

16 minutes ago, Balaclava said:

I guess i do mind them showing real WW2 footage, sure plenty of films and TV shows have done it but they're using said images for shock value and entertainment, it's not a documentary but a comic book show, there's no educational value to it.

Same, i also don't care if  EX Oliver and Kara are together however it makes me uncomfortable having to see my fav SH on TV be a nazi because EX or not it's still Oliver's face i'll be looking at.  

Fair enough I can understand that. I am assuming that it's going to be portrayed as a horrifying thing which might be okay for me depending on how it's done, but I can see why others don't want it at all, which might be one reason they should have stayed away from Alt!Nazi's. LOT did okay with them last season I thought, as well as slavery and the American War of Independence but there was no POV for any of them there, which sounds like it might be the case here.

But then again I suppose you could say Arrow shouldn't have spent several years on the Bratva, a real life terrible organisation because it is a comic book show and glamorises violence. I realise there's no comparison in scope and ideology, one is a billion times worse than the other, but maybe the writers thought it was just a "step up" in stakes. Most likely they were thinking a difference from "boo hiss alien bad guys" is "boo hiss Nazi's from another Earth, boo!" and I am nervous about how that will work but I don't necessarily think the Nazi's as bad guys should always be off limits or any particular evil asshole groups, just depends on how its handled. 

[Balaclava]

4 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

But then again I suppose you could say Arrow shouldn't have spent several years on the Bratva, a real life terrible organisation because it is a comic book show and glamorises violence. I realise there's no comparison in scope and ideology, one is a billion times worse than the other, but maybe the writers thought it was just a "step up" in stakes. Most likely they were thinking a difference from "boo hiss alien bad guys" is "boo hiss Nazi's from another Earth, boo!" and I am nervous about how that will work but I don't necessarily think the Nazi's as bad guys should always be off limits or any particular evil asshole groups, just depends on how its handled. 

The Bratva arrow did was not even close to the terrible organization they are in real life but you see with that they stayed away from the truly horrific things the Bratva does, human traffic, prostitution, drugs etc

I agree, i don't think nazis as bad guys should be off limits but this is the CW and the arrowverse we're talking about here, i'm afraid their sensibility do deal with certain things just isn't the best, you have proof after proof regarding their lack of skills with writing when it comes to serious issues.

I'm watching the xover because i like to judge things for myself but i can't tell you i'm not apprehensive about how they're going to deal with it.  

[thegirlsleuth]

I think the part I have a huge problem with this is that its not just "the team fights Nazis!" its "the team fights Nazis that look like Stephen and Melissa, two beloved actors who play beloved heroes I have spent several years bonding with!" And while I'm sure they will show them wearing the Nazi insignias and talk about how very, very bad they are, they won't show them committing Nazi atrocities on screen because they won't want viewers to start thinking about Oliver sending people to concentration camps the next time he's saving Star City.  Even the Nazi's big plan in this--stealing Supergirl's heart--doesn't really get to the rot at the heart of Nazi thinking. It's like if a Nazi kicked a puppy--evil, but not reflecting the deep evil of the Nazis.  I worry they are going to make our heroes "Nazi lite", which might make them heroes of real life Nazis and normalize Nazis for younger, less sophisticated viewers.

This is my problem with what I've read.  Again, I will use my West Coast advantage and see what the east coast says before I decide to watch.

Edited November 26, 2017 by thegirlsleuth

[scarynikki12]

Real world politics are off topic and are a no-no at PTV.  We allow some leeway when an episode uses real world politics as storylines.  No one has to justify their opinions, so please stop asking.

[Simba122504]

On 11/24/2017 at 0:50 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Word on the street (ie Reddit) is that Curtis leaves TA in ep.9.

Not shocking since Curtis isn't apart of the company in the future. 

[tv echo]

That same reddit guy (superpyroman) posted these alleged "midseason spoilers" yesterday...

Quote

I'm back for more spoilers. This time it's Arrow and LoT midseason spoilers
Take note that I didn't watch this episodes. I just skimmed through it. I don't have the motivation to watch the EPs like the Crisis on Earth-X since this have no hype :(
For Arrow:
Curtis left Team Arrow. Don't know why. Didn't bother knowing
Thea is now awake
Rene is with her daughter again
Team Cayden James is shown. They currently have 6 members: Cayden James, Black Siren, Anatoly Knyazev, 2 other guys, one of them was the one talking to Black Siren in earlier episodes the other I don't know didnt watch like 4 eps prior to this, and lastly, Joseph Acevedo so I'm guessing this one is Richard Dragon
For LoT:
Snart is with the Legends
There is a guy called Beebo? Not sure if that's right
They're in a Viking settlement. Kinda looks like a Vikings episode
The annoying girl from the Time Bureau is with them
Jax gave a letter to younger Stein that have a note that says "Open this on Nov 28, 2017"
Stein doesn't want to accept it since it could change the future but Jax insisted
It is revealed that Rip is in the Time Bureau prison
Darhk is posing as Odin complete with a long hair. Nora is dressed like a Valkyrie. She's looks hot here
Sara wants to kill Dahrk alone since she's worried that everyone will die like Stein
They have a montage of different What-Ifs in defeating Dahrk. That shit is cute
In the end the only plan that succeeded is the one where they are all together
Not sure what happened to Darhk family. Probably escaped
Jax left the Legends
They have a goodbye/christmas dinner for Jax. Same as last season's mid season finale
MOTHERFUCKING CONSTANTINE APPEARS IN THE DARK CORNER OF THE WAVERIDER
Constantine is asking Sara for a favor since technically he saved her life in Arrow S4
There is a demon(?) that is possessing a little girl and that said demon knows Sara. Probably someone she met when she died.

https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/7f8827/spoilers_arrow_and_lot_midseason_finale_details/

Edited November 26, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The crossover episode synopses listed the writers for each episode...

Quote

-- Supergirl 308 synopsis: "'Crisis on Earth X, Part 1' — ...Larry Teng directed the episode with story by Andrew Kreisberg & Marc Guggenheim and teleplay by Robert Rovner & Jessica Queller (#308).  Original airdate 11/27/2017." (Nov. 10, 2017 SpoilerTV article, page 414 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)
-- Arrow 608 synopsis: "'Crisis on Earth X, Part 2' — ... James Bamford directed the episode with story by Marc Guggenheim & Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Wendy Mericle & Ben Sokolowski (#608).  Original airdate 11/27/2017." (Nov. 10, 2017 SpoilerTV article, page 10 of New Spoilers thread and page 414 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)
-- Flash 408 synopsis: "'Crisis on Earth X, Part 3' — ... Dermott Downs directed the episode with story by Andrew Kreisberg & Marc Guggenheim and teleplay by Todd Helbing (#408).  Original airdate 11/28/2017." (Nov. 10, 2017 SpoilerTV article, page 414 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)
-- LoT 308 synopsis: "'Crisis on Earth X, Part 4' — ... Gregory Smith directed the episode with story by Marc Guggenheim & Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Phil Klemmer & Keto Shimizu (#308).  Original airdate 11/28/2017." (Nov. 10, 2017 SpoilerTV article, page 414 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

Edited November 26, 2017 by tv echo

[Guest]

14 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm curious how this "Felicity doesn't want to marry Oliver" plays out ... like, does Oliver actually propose? Is it something that one of the guests at the wedding brings up and Felicity is like "no, thanks"?

If I had to guess, putting together promo pics/clips from trailers, I'd say Oliver brings up the subject of marriage after Joe's speech about love at WA's rehearsal dinner. 

[way2interested]

Quote

They currently have 6 members: Cayden James, Black Siren, Anatoly Knyazev, 2 other guys, one of them was the one talking to Black Siren in earlier episodes the other I don't know didnt watch like 4 eps prior to this, and lastly, Joseph Acevedo so I'm guessing this one is Richard Dragon

The other guy is that guy from 601 and 603 right?

[tv echo]

Probably Alex Faust (played by Dominic Bogart). He was in 601 and 603.

[tv echo]

23 hours ago, tv echo said:

That same reddit guy (superpyroman) posted these alleged "midseason spoilers" yesterday...

https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/7f8827/spoilers_arrow_and_lot_midseason_finale_details/

In the comments below his post, this reddit guy said that he didn't see any wedding reception in Arrow's mid-season finale, but then he said that he skipped some scenes. So now I'm kinda skeptical about his "spoilers". He also said that the other guy is not Faust.

Edited November 27, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

46 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In the comments below his post, this reddit guy said that he didn't see any wedding reception in Arrow's mid-season finale, but then he said that he skipped some scenes. So now I'm kinda skeptical about his "spoilers". He also said that the other guy is not Faust.

Given what CanadaGraphs said about filming of the reception that sound totally fake/suss. 

[insomniadreams88]

51 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In the comments below his post, this reddit guy said that he didn't see any wedding reception in Arrow's mid-season finale, but then he said that he skipped some scenes. So now I'm kinda skeptical about his "spoilers". He also said that the other guy is not Faust.

Maybe he thought it was a holiday party? Or he probably just skipped it because there's Olicity. 

Guessing the other guy is the guy from 604 who never got a name? 

[way2interested]

40 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In the comments below his post, this reddit guy said that he didn't see any wedding reception in Arrow's mid-season finale, but then he said that he skipped some scenes. So now I'm kinda skeptical about his "spoilers". He also said that the other guy is not Faust.

Lol I didn't read them until you pointed them out but they are hilarious. "Lance is in it" but doesn't know anything about Lance in the plot (even though that was already spoiled), "I didn't see a reception," but admits to skipping a bunch of scenes, "I'm not sure that Cayden James is the big bad," but says the entire episode is focused around Cayden James, ok then. I do think they might be right about the details they have, but what a way to frame what's going on in the episode. Like, if you're going to spoil things, at least get the details.

Also, if it's not Faust (and presumably not Vigilante since they didn't think so either), then I've got no idea who else it could be at this point.

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

Guessing the other guy is the guy from 604 who never got a name? 

No, they said that that guy was already there.

[leopardprint]

56 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In the comments below his post, this reddit guy said that he didn't see any wedding reception in Arrow's mid-season finale, but then he said that he skipped some scenes. So now I'm kinda skeptical about his "spoilers". He also said that the other guy is not Faust.

At least his crossover spoilers line up with what the PR and promo have been showing. His spoiler description was hilariously brief so he probably didn't watch or pay attention to the parts he doesn't care about. I get the impression he is like watching it over someone's shoulder in an editing bay or something.