Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[tessathereaper]

30 minutes ago, starfishka said:

Jensen wishing somebody happy birthday (+ a little BTS tour of the bunker)

Aw...that's nice.

[BornToDie]

So what’s the reaction gonna be if Jensen  makes a guest appearance on Walker or directs an episode?

 

[Bergamot]

5 hours ago, BornToDie said:

So what’s the reaction gonna be if Jensen  makes a guest appearance on Walker or directs an episode?

 

I'm looking forward to Jensen being on "The Boys"! I think he will be awesome! Does anyone know when they might start filming?

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

I'm looking forward to Jensen being on "The Boys"! I think he will be awesome! Does anyone know when they might start filming?

There was a filming permit site that listed the start date as Feb 1, but a recent interview with Antony Starr (Homelander) said they didn't have a specific day but it was soon, and the actors that play Hughie and Starlight have already finished their quarantine, so I think early February seems about right.

Edited January 22, 2021 by ILoveReading

[PAForrest]

16 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

Aw...that's nice.

That was a lovely vid. Given one of the things Jensen said about the individual continuing to fight, I wondered if it was something along the lines of a Make a Wish vid. I'm pretty positive at least once they had a Make a Wish participant at the set. Of course, with COVID these folks can't get set visits anymore, and that's a pretty popular wish. Very sad.

But Jensen was so sweet, and you can see at the time a little verklempt himself that it's wrapping up.

And yes, I too am very much looking forward to Jensen on The Boys! He may finally be in Toronto now. And he's going to be very busy there for most of the year, it sounds like. Hopefully we'll see a shot of the super suit soon!

On 1/20/2021 at 6:10 PM, ILoveReading said:

Had to share this.  It gorgeous

That is gorgeous. I still despise the finale and the crap ending Dean got, but that is a beautiful rendition of his arrival in Heaven.

[Myrelle]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:10 PM, ILoveReading said:

Had to share this.  It gorgeous

It is.

As is Our Dean. 

I'm amazed at the wonderful legacy the character has left on Twitter.

I saw an account there called Live for Dean which posts the most beautiful and uplifting comments, all in the name of living for Dean. 

It's also about raising money for a mental health awareness group, I believe. 

That kind of thing has to resonate with Jensen, I'd think.

I hope he's seen it because as I said, the positivity of the quotes is something that I'm sure he'd love having been responsible for and a part of through his portrayal of the wonderfully iconic and always memorable Dean Winchester.

I still miss him. So much.

[tessathereaper]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

There was a filming permit site that listed the start date as Feb 1, but a recent interview with Antony Starr (Homelander) said they didn't have a specific day but it was soon, and the actors that play Hughie and Starlight have already finished their quarantine, so I think early February seems about right.

I think it's just because the different groups may be starting to film at t different times.  The Boys group, with Jack and Erin(she's both Boys and Supes) and some others might start filming first, then the Supes, then they film all the scenes where the groups mix later on.

But Danneel liked an insta post where someone mentioned Jensen quarantining, so if he wasn't doing it before, he is by now.

[MAK]

Happy Birthday to Dean Winchester!

[PAForrest]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAN WINCHESTER! I don't know what the hell the CW thought they were doing, but they were wrong. That wasn't your end. We know better. So have a great day with your toes in the sand and Miracle by your side! 🍺🐕🎉

Edited January 24, 2021 by PAForrest

[Pondlass1]

Happy Birthday Dean 🥳 Hope heaven’s not too boring. 

[trudysmom]

Happy Birthday Dean.  In honor of your birthday I'm watching my favorite moments of you.  Mostly early seasons, almost all pre-Mary.  

[Myrelle]

5 hours ago, PAForrest said:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAN WINCHESTER! I don't know what the hell the CW thought they were doing, but they were wrong. That wasn't your end. We know better. So have a great day with your toes in the sand and Miracle by your side! 🍺🐕🎉

Yup. 

In my mind, he's busted out of boring old Heaven already and he's truly enjoying his birthday with none the wiser to that fact.

So Happy Birthday Dean!!

And welcome back!! 😉 🥰

[tessathereaper]

Happy Birthday Dean Winchester.  Hope it's a great one.

Also it's been trending on Twitter for hours.

 

[Casseiopeia]

[Casseiopeia]

 

[Pondlass1]

How can you not love him?  Always had a wisecrack no matter how dire the situation. 

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Love this pic from WIAWSNB. He's so beautiful then and now. And more importantly, the man who portrays our beloved Dean above is a true gentleman. Happy, Happy Birthday (whatever number-who can keep track with all the time jumps) Dean Winchester!!! 🍔🍺

[Casseiopeia]

 

[Myrelle]

So #HappyBirthdayDeanWinchester was trending every time that I came online yesterday-and just for the record, that was many times. 💝

 

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

So #HappyBirthdayDeanWinchester was trending every time that I came online yesterday-and just for the record, that was many times. 💝

 

A couple of my favorite "HappyBirthday"s--

Chad Lindberg (Ash) tweeting with updates about how Harvelle's Roadhouse was jammed packed with a party for Dean:

"Harvelle's Roadhouse Update: Dean is now standing on the pool table singing Bon Jovi's 'It's my Life' at the top of his lungs."  LOL!

https://twitter.com/ChadLindberg/status/1353449806849433600

https://twitter.com/ChadLindberg/status/135355089471804620

 

Felicia Day doing a little video as Charlie, wishing Dean happy birthday:

https://twitter.com/NudelmanNitzan/status/1353496125232308225

 

(Sorry, I don't know how to put a tweet into a post!)

 

 

 

[gonzosgirrl]

Chad also followed up with this:

He also tweeted this. Ah, the benefits of playing nice with Dean fans.

 

[Myrelle]

18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Chad also followed up with this:

He also tweeted this. Ah, the benefits of playing nice with Dean fans.

 

Go figure, right? 🙃

[PAForrest]

On 1/26/2021 at 11:03 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

 Ah, the benefits of playing nice with Dean fans.

Exactly. Why the showrunners and an entire network would want to dismiss the fan base of their most popular character will never ever make sense. That's not the way it usually works on any other tv series.

Chad is sweet, though. I saw him at the very last con I attended, and he was a really nice guy to everyone. He was the last person signing autographs on the day he was there because he wanted to talk to everyone in the line, and he wouldn't leave until everyone was signed. And it was running late that day.

Having Harvell's roadside bar in Dean's heaven with absolutely no one there to greet Dean except crotchety old Bobby who wouldn't even get out of his chair is what made Dean's heaven so bleak and sad. COVID was a piss poor excuse for not even having Ellen there, whose bar it was - played by a Canadian who would have been happy to do it - and/or Ash, Jo ... or literally anyone else on the Canadian side, at least. Not when they turned around and crammed an entire production team shoulder to shoulder on that stupid bridge, no masks, no social distancing.

I remember how fun it was to have Ash in Dark Side of the Moon. Ash was the original character who tore down heaven's walls before Jack and Cas got around to it. He certainly would have livened up such a dismal scene at the end.

The roadhouse set was exactly that - a cheap set piece, nothing more. Memorex heaven. Did Jack and Cas really make any changes at all? It didn't look that way. I hope Dean got out.

A friend wondered why they didn't at the very least have music coming out of the bar, had Dean open the door and everyone yelling his name? Something, anything? That would have cost them nothing to do. There was literally zero effort put into Dean's tiny part of the story. It was the final insult. Honestly, even Jensen looked like he couldn't get into it that day. If he was supposed to be selling a Dean who felt suddenly free of all burden, I have to say it's one of the few times I felt Jensen failed in his performance. 😭

I still miss the guy. I wonder what AU Dean is up to? Where were they - somewhere in South America?

Edited January 30, 2021 by PAForrest

[Pondlass1]

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

A friend wondered why they didn't at the very least have music coming out of the bar, had Dean open the door and everyone yelling his name?

Yeah, like Norm on Cheers. It would’ve been so cool and the cheapskates wouldn’t have had to fork out a penny.

[FlickChick]

10 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Honestly, even Jensen looked like he couldn't get into it that day. If he was supposed to be selling a Dean who felt suddenly free of all burden, I have to say it's one of the few times I felt Jensen failed in his performance. 😭

That struck me as well - he hardly moved, stood very still while Bobby was talking to him. I felt it was a deliberate decision on Jensen's part to play it that way to indicate Dean wasn't all that happy to be there. Obviously that's only the way I interpreted the scene, and maybe something else was going on there. 

[Myrelle]

39 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

That struck me as well - he hardly moved, stood very still while Bobby was talking to him. I felt it was a deliberate decision on Jensen's part to play it that way to indicate Dean wasn't all that happy to be there. Obviously that's only the way I interpreted the scene, and maybe something else was going on there. 

Bobby did seem to understand and point out that Dean would never be truly happy w/o Sam, thus the time moves differently in Heaven statement.

I think Jensen was playing it with that in mind for Dean AND when he first arrived he thought it was still going to be Memorex Heaven.

That said, I also think Jensen played it as Dean still not being altogether thrilled with the thought that he'd died and gone to Heaven, no matter what type of Heaven it was because, in his mind(Jensen's), that is exactly what and how Dean might have felt about it.

And I say good for him for playing it that way because now, thanks to that performance, *I* can very easily head canon that Dean busted out of boring old Heaven as fast as he could-OR that if Jensen does decide to someday in the future do his own fix it of this horrendous mess that Badd gave us of a series finale, he'd be able to start from that reactionary point if he wanted to.

I honestly thought that was pretty clever of him, especially if one considers that one of his final statements on how he felt about this finale, in one of the last interviews that he ever gave on it, was Nothing/no one ever stays dead on Supernatural.

[PAForrest]

37 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

That said, I also think Jensen played it as Dean still not being altogether thrilled with the thought that he'd died and gone to Heaven, no matter what type of Heaven it was because, in his mind(Jensen's), that is exactly what and how Dean might have felt about it.

And I say good for him for playing it that way because now, thanks to that performance, *I* can very easily head canon that Dean busted out of boring old Heaven as fast as he could-OR that if Jensen does decide to someday in the future do his own fix it of this horrendous mess that Badd gave us of a series finale, he'd be able to start from that reactionary point if he wanted to.

I honestly thought that was pretty clever of him, especially if one considers that one of his final statements on how he felt about this finale, in one of the last interviews that he ever gave on it, was Nothing/no one ever stays dead on Supernatural.

And I actually agree with you. I honestly don't believe Jensen purposely gave a bad performance, because I don't think he meant to portray Dean as free from burden despite what I'm sure the script and the CW wanted, and that's kind of the point. He's too good an actor, and we know he all too often acted against the writing over the 15 years.

So either he was freshly pissed about how bad the ending was for his favorite character in the universe, or more likely he purposely played Dean as being off and not exactly thrilled to be there. Dean didn't even act happy to see Bobby, and that's quite unlike Dean too.

Maybe he was too busy thinking about how he could go back in five years and fix this hot mess.

[Pondlass1]

 I just rewatched the Ben and Lisa themed episodes. Does anyone out there believe Ben was Dean’s son? It seems sad that a great guy like Dean died without descendants, a blood line.  On the other hand, Dean was a sexually active man and all the precautions in the world are never one hundred percent. There could be little Deans and Deannas in every State.  LOL!
 

[MAK]

47 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Does anyone out there believe Ben was Dean’s son? 

I think a lot of people want to believe it, but can't make it fit in canon because of the vessel/bloodline issue. Why couldn't Ben be a substitute vessel for Michael, if he was Dean's bloodline? Age wasn't an issue when Castiel used Claire. Since even the angels ignored him, Dean, who I think really wanted Ben to be his, was convinced that he wasn't. Also, he felt it was safer for them if he wasn't, and didn't pursue it too much.

Personally, I think Ben is Dean's son, and Michael/Zachariah ignored him because they were too stuck on the brother vs brother narrative, and the optics of the Prince of Heaven having to be embodied in a small child.

 

 

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

 I just rewatched the Ben and Lisa themed episodes. Does anyone out there believe Ben was Dean’s son? It seems sad that a great guy like Dean died without descendants, a blood line.  On the other hand, Dean was a sexually active man and all the precautions in the world are never one hundred percent. There could be little Deans and Deannas in every State.  LOL!
 

I don't because if Ben were Dean's son, that would basically make Lisa the scum of the earth for hiding that from both of them when he lived with them for a whole year.

I agree with your second hypothesis.  If Adam exists, so can Dean Jrs.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I don't because if Ben were Dean's son, that would basically make Lisa the scum of the earth for hiding that from both of them when he lived with them for a whole year.

I agree with your second hypothesis.  If Adam exists, so can Dean Jrs.

I don't know about "scum of the earth," but Lisa lying for so long doesn't make sense, especially while Dean was living with them (I could understand when she thought he was going to disappear again and wanted to give him an easy out.)  

OTOH, I'd think Ben would want to know the truth, and surely there could have been a way for either Dean or Ben to have a DNA test run in secret (though that would bring up all kinds of nasty questions about why she lied for so long.)  It would also make sure Dean wouldn't just leave Ben, even if was to protect them both.  I can't see Dean ever walking out on his biological son, much less wiping his memory.  

Some famously single TV heroes wound up finding previously unknown illegitimate children when the show (and the star) was getting older (original Magnum and original MacGyver offhand) so maybe if the show had continued (and the Js wanted more time off) there could have been little Winchesters showing up to build up to a spinoff.  

[Casseiopeia]

5 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

 I just rewatched the Ben and Lisa themed episodes. Does anyone out there believe Ben was Dean’s son? It seems sad that a great guy like Dean died without descendants, a blood line.  On the other hand, Dean was a sexually active man and all the precautions in the world are never one hundred percent. There could be little Deans and Deannas in every State.  LOL!
 

Well he did have one form of protection fail so who knows.

[7kstar]

12 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I just rewatched the Ben and Lisa themed episodes. Does anyone out there believe Ben was Dean’s son? It seems sad that a great guy like Dean died without descendants, a blood line.  On the other hand, Dean was a sexually active man and all the precautions in the world are never one hundred percent.

According to the writer, no Ben wasn't Dean's son.  The director decided to add the elements of Ben standing just like Dean and acting like him.  So that director's choice has made fans believe that Ben must be Dean's son.  Can you fanwink it if you want too, sure but it then becomes bad when Dean wipes their memory of him.

Now since Dean lived with them for a year, that was long enough to create something but in cannon they never made it so.  IA that since Dean lived with them for a year, if it was true it should have been revealed. 

Now could Dean have some children he doesn't know about, well of course.  They used that to create Adam...well Dean could have several...

[gonzosgirrl]

19 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't because if Ben were Dean's son, that would basically make Lisa the scum of the earth for hiding that from both of them when he lived with them for a whole year.

I agree with your second hypothesis.  If Adam exists, so can Dean Jrs.

Well there was a Deana Jr., but Sam killed her.

Canonically, Ben isn't Dean's son. Head-canonically, for me, he is. Even if he wasn't the sperm donor, he was a father to him. I also choose to believe that when Cas altered reality to erase Dean from Lisa and Ben's existence,  he also removed them from the bad guys' radar. Dean did what he did to protect them regardless of the personal cost to him, and that's love. 

[MAK]

20 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't because if Ben were Dean's son, that would basically make Lisa the scum of the earth for hiding that from both of them when he lived with them for a whole year.

IMO, I don't believe Lisa knew who the father was, she just assumed. She said she had a type.  I don't think that stopped at just a leather-clad bad boy, it probably extended to guys who were passing through, who didn't leave numbers behind. If Ben turned 8 in 2007 (date episode aired), then he was conceived in late 1998 or early 1999. Cell phones weren't that common yet. Who was she going to call for a "blood test"?

Even before Dean came back, she had already convinced herself it was some other guy.  And the whole year they were together,  Dean conveniently accepted that, because he knew, sooner or later, he would crack, and have to leave them.

It was easier for Dean to have Castiel wipe him out of their lives, if he never accepted Ben as biologically his.

And I also think there are Dean jrs around because even if Dean suited up every single time, don't condoms have a 3% failure rate?

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Canonically, Ben isn't Dean's son. Head-canonically, for me, he is. Even if he wasn't the sperm donor, he was a father to him. I also choose to believe that when Cas altered reality to erase Dean from Lisa and Ben's existence,  he also removed them from the bad guys' radar. Dean did what he did to protect them regardless of the personal cost to him, and that's love

Oh, yeah.  I'm totally nurture over nature and Dean was definitely the only father Ben ever had.  And, I agree that the memory wipe was done to protect them although I may not agree with the morality of it.

1 hour ago, MAK said:

Even before Dean came back, she had already convinced herself it was some other guy.  And the whole year they were together,  Dean conveniently accepted that, because he knew, sooner or later, he would crack, and have to leave them.

According to her convinced herself with a DNA test (which she called a blood test for some reason).

[ahrtee]

47 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Oh, yeah.  I'm totally nurture over nature and Dean was definitely the only father Ben ever had.  And, I agree that the memory wipe was done to protect them although I may not agree with the morality of it.

2 hours ago, MAK said:

Even before Dean came back, she had already convinced herself it was some other guy.  And the whole year they were together,  Dean conveniently accepted that, because he knew, sooner or later, he would crack, and have to leave them.

According to her convinced herself with a DNA test (which she called a blood test for some reason).

IA that Dean was a major father figure in Ben's life, but maybe not the only one (didn't Dean once mention Lisa's ex, the "boring"one?)  

About the paternity test (which would have been back in 1998 or 99,) it's possible she was still in touch with the biological father at that time.  At the time of The Kids are Alright, she was living in some pretty nice places for a part-time (?) yoga instructor, so maybe there was some sort of child support involved (hence, the original test.)  Much as I'd like (and I think Dean wanted) Ben to be his biological son, I don't think he was, because I don't think Lisa would have lied through the whole year they lived together.  There was no point.  

(BTW, blood typing used to be used for paternity tests before the more sophisticated DNA tests, which weren't available for paternity testing till 1988.  It's possible the DNA tests at that time were too expensive or hard to get for Lisa back then so she went with blood testing.)

[PAForrest]

I honestly don't recall the part about Lisa DNA testing Ben from their introductory episode in season 3. All these years I came away with the impression that she was either lying to Dean or honestly didn't know who the father was. But let's assume she does know who the father is, and it wasn't Dean. I guess it makes sense as it's been pointed out how Lisa was a part-time yoga instructor living in a big ass expensive-looking house, so it is likely she'd been collecting child support from a guy who was willing to do the right thing financially, but still didn't appear to have any interest in being part of his child's life.

However, I personally didn't like Gamble bringing Lisa back in at the end of season five and early season six - and that was her choice, not Kripke's - because doing so was part of her plan to sideline Dean and remove him from his role as Michael's vessel. Then there was that way off-base crap she thought she was going to pull in season six that Dawn Ostroff was on board with in supposedly turning Sam into Dean and vice versa. All that proved is that Gamble had zero idea who Dean Winchester was. Hell, for as in love with Jared and Sam as she was, she apparently had no idea who Sam Winchester was either.

I think Dean cared for Lisa and Ben a lot, but he was never comfortable in his skin when he was with them. It wasn't the life he wanted at all. He may have thought it was something he wanted when Gamble and Kripke had him spout lines to that respect in season five to lay the groundwork for removing him from his role, but Jensen never bought it and he never played it as Dean buying into it either, because it's not what he wanted for Dean.

When Lisa and Ben were one-offs, it was easier to head-canon that Ben may have been Dean's. But that idea crashed and burned during the year Dean was parked at their house. It's really not believable that Lisa would continue to lie if she was thinking they would possibly stay together. I do think Ben was very attached to Dean - and what young boy wouldn't be, especially one who never had a father figure before. But he wasn't biologically Dean's child.

That being said, I also agree that for as sexually active as Dean clearly was all his life, chances are there's at least one child out there who is his that he never knew about - and of course never will. Screw you CW.

On 1/31/2021 at 9:25 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I also choose to believe that when Cas altered reality to erase Dean from Lisa and Ben's existence,  he also removed them from the bad guys' radar. Dean did what he did to protect them regardless of the personal cost to him, and that's love. 

This explanation is the only thing that works, and it's doable and possibly what Gamble had in mind anyway, because I remember discussions about how just removing Dean from their memories wouldn't protect them at all. It makes a lot more sense that Cas altered reality around them so that they never existed as part of Dean's life in the first place.  They were simply some of the billions of people walking through life on this earth who never had anything to do with the Winchesters, therefore there would never be any reason for angels or demons to specifically target them.

[MAK]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

guess it makes sense as it's been pointed out how Lisa was a part-time yoga instructor living in a big ass expensive-looking house, so it is likely she'd been collecting child support from a guy who was willing to do the right thing financially, but still didn't appear to have any interest in being part of his child's life.

Maybe. But she actually may have money on her own, that's why she can be a yoga instructor (FT or PT) and still afford a suburban lifestyle. 

The first time Dean met her, didn't she have her own loft?

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

This explanation is the only thing that works, and it's doable and possibly what Gamble had in mind anyway, because I remember discussions about how just removing Dean from their memories wouldn't protect them at all. It makes a lot more sense that Cas altered reality around them so that they never existed as part of Dean's life in the first place.  They were simply some of the billions of people walking through life on this earth who never had anything to do with the Winchesters, therefore there would never be any reason for angels or demons to specifically target them.

The only problem with this is that, given the amount of fluctuating powers they give demons (and other psychic fuglies), Cas should have erased them from Dean's memory as well. If a baddie was intent on finding a weakness and could probe Dean's mind, it wouldn't take long to arrive at Lisa and Ben.

I do believe that Dean was at least on his way to being happy and content with them. Yes, he admitted to trying to find a way to rescue Sam, and that he obviously drank too much in the first months after 5x22. But we also saw him enjoying his work, and the backyard-bbq lifestyle. He was friendly and popular with the neighbours, and clearly he cared for Lisa and Ben and they loved him. He was healing, IMO, and sure that can take years even in a 'normal' grief situation. But if the Djinn hadn't fucked with him and Sam stayed 'dead', I believe he would have continued to heal.

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I do believe that Dean was at least on his way to being happy and content with them. Yes, he admitted to trying to find a way to rescue Sam, and that he obviously drank too much in the first months after 5x22. But we also saw him enjoying his work, and the backyard-bbq lifestyle. He was friendly and popular with the neighbours, and clearly he cared for Lisa and Ben and they loved him. He was healing, IMO, and sure that can take years even in a 'normal' grief situation. But if the Djinn hadn't fucked with him and Sam stayed 'dead', I believe he would have continued to heal.

IA that Dean was on his way to being "content" but I'm not sure about happy.  Yes, he was friendly with neighbors and the bbq lifestyle, but that's something I always loved about early Dean--that he could always manage to fit in, no matter where (think: Folsom Prison Blues and Hollywood Babylon, for two very different styles), and to find things to enjoy everywhere.  (By the later seasons, the writers had him so sunk in depression and despair that he didn't even try most of the time.)

I don't think he'd ever give up on Sam while he thought he was being tortured in hell (remember, he knows exactly what that means) and so he wouldn't stop researching altogether.   Once he knew Sam was out and safe, maybe he could have stayed with Lisa (knowing that Sam at least wasn't hunting alone), but I don't think Dean could have given up hunting that easily.  He saw the djinn signs even before he knew Sam was out, and felt obliged to follow up on them.   Maybe he wouldn't actively search out cases, but I can't see him ignoring anything he heard about, or thinking "someone else would take care of it," (as ...ahem...someone else did later.)

It was, after all, not only his identity but also the thing that gave his life purpose and meaning.  Remember how, even a memory-wiped Dean (and Sam) still hunted (and enjoyed it) in It's a Terrible Life, and Zach pointed out that hunting was in his blood and he'd find his way to it even in the dark.   And remember his sigh of satisfaction when he uncovered the Impala and set out on the road again (with Lisa's blessing.)  That was someone finding his missing part.

So, while he might have had a chance if he could hunt *and* still stay with Lisa and Ben, it was the fact of his hunting (and the danger it brought to his family) that made him leave completely.  Giving up hunting might have been the dream, but I don't think he would have been happy without at least helping in some way, even if it was just becoming the new Bobby and helping out new, younger hunters.  

[Pondlass1]

I really just posed the question because the board was so quiet.  I love that we respond as if Dean Winchester is flesh and blood real. Jensen made him that way and all the bad writing in the world can’t ruin that. 

Domesticated Dean settled into the life easily. Number One Dad. But Dean couldn’t relax with family or happiness. Not ever.  Deep down he always knew that. Anyone close and loved would be absolutely vulnerable. And anyway, hunting and the open road was in his blood.

But it was a messy storyline from the start. They obviously wanted to stir things up but wrote themselves into a corner. The only way out was to kill mother and son and that doesn’t happen on the CW so it just got silly with Cas wiping memories, and — as a fan once asked at a convention ..... what about all the happy photos sprinkled about the house? Lisa would surely wonder Who’s this guy? LOL It was a prime example of Cas’s super duper powers getting them out of a box whenever necessary.

 

[MAK]

14 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I don't think he'd ever give up on Sam while he thought he was being tortured in hell (remember, he knows exactly what that means) and so he wouldn't stop researching altogether.   Once he knew Sam was out and safe, maybe he could have stayed with Lisa (knowing that Sam at least wasn't hunting alone), but I don't think Dean could have given up hunting that easily.  He saw the djinn signs even before he knew Sam was out, and felt obliged to follow up on them.   Maybe he wouldn't actively search out cases, but I can't see him ignoring anything he heard about, or thinking "someone else would take care of it," (as ...ahem...someone else did later.)

If Sam had come back as "Sam," and not soulless, Dean would have left him alone. In fact, before he figured out Sam was soulless, Dean remained with Lisa and Ben because he thought Sam didn't want to work with him anymore, and that's why Sam stayed away for a year. He never bought the "because you were happy" reason for Sam not contacting him immediately after getting out.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

IA that Dean was on his way to being "content" but I'm not sure about happy.  Yes, he was friendly with neighbors and the bbq lifestyle, but that's something I always loved about early Dean--that he could always manage to fit in, no matter where (think: Folsom Prison Blues and Hollywood Babylon, for two very different styles), and to find things to enjoy everywhere.  (By the later seasons, the writers had him so sunk in depression and despair that he didn't even try most of the time.)

I don't think he'd ever give up on Sam while he thought he was being tortured in hell (remember, he knows exactly what that means) and so he wouldn't stop researching altogether.   Once he knew Sam was out and safe, maybe he could have stayed with Lisa (knowing that Sam at least wasn't hunting alone), but I don't think Dean could have given up hunting that easily.  He saw the djinn signs even before he knew Sam was out, and felt obliged to follow up on them.   Maybe he wouldn't actively search out cases, but I can't see him ignoring anything he heard about, or thinking "someone else would take care of it," (as ...ahem...someone else did later.)

It was, after all, not only his identity but also the thing that gave his life purpose and meaning.  Remember how, even a memory-wiped Dean (and Sam) still hunted (and enjoyed it) in It's a Terrible Life, and Zach pointed out that hunting was in his blood and he'd find his way to it even in the dark.   And remember his sigh of satisfaction when he uncovered the Impala and set out on the road again (with Lisa's blessing.)  That was someone finding his missing part.

So, while he might have had a chance if he could hunt *and* still stay with Lisa and Ben, it was the fact of his hunting (and the danger it brought to his family) that made him leave completely.  Giving up hunting might have been the dream, but I don't think he would have been happy without at least helping in some way, even if it was just becoming the new Bobby and helping out new, younger hunters.  

Happy in the first year? Maybe not - again, grief. But eventually? I absolutely believe he could be happy. Yes, he saw the Djinn signs, but they were there specifically to mess with him, not just a random hunt that popped up. I would never expect Dean to ignore a clear and present supernatural danger, but I could see him not seeking it out, looking for 'cases'. We know all that came later, but Dean in 6x01 didn't. Yes, it was his identity, but the supernatural and hunting life had cost him everything, and he'd promised to walk away from it, and that's what he was doing. A year just wasn't enough time. I don't imagine he would ever 'forget' Sam, but he could have learned to accept it.

What if Cas wasn't a douche and had retrieved Sam with his soul intact? That Sam would not have chosen to keep hunting solo and not tell Dean he was back. That Sam would have bought the damn house next door. IMO it was always circumstance that kept Dean hunting, and he was pulled back in by soulless Sam.

 

[ahrtee]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Happy in the first year? Maybe not - again, grief. But eventually? I absolutely believe he could be happy. Yes, he saw the Djinn signs, but they were there specifically to mess with him, not just a random hunt that popped up. I would never expect Dean to ignore a clear and present supernatural danger, but I could see him not seeking it out, looking for 'cases'. We know all that came later, but Dean in 6x01 didn't. Yes, it was his identity, but the supernatural and hunting life had cost him everything, and he'd promised to walk away from it, and that's what he was doing. A year just wasn't enough time. I don't imagine he would ever 'forget' Sam, but he could have learned to accept it.

What if Cas wasn't a douche and had retrieved Sam with his soul intact? That Sam would not have chosen to keep hunting solo and not tell Dean he was back. That Sam would have bought the damn house next door. IMO it was always circumstance that kept Dean hunting, and he was pulled back in by soulless Sam.

 

The problem for me is that they gave so many mixed messages over the years.   Dean at any point without a looming apocalyptic doom hanging over him--especially with Sam safe--being happy to settle down?  Hell yes.  But as long as he had something he felt responsible for--whether it was Sam in hell or the Darkness or the MoC (because of Abaddon), no.  

Yes, the djinn signs were aimed specifically to mess with him, but even if it had been signs of an angry spirit in the next town I don't think he would have ignored them.  And then there's the whole season 8 mess--where he was so angry at Sam for giving up hunting (*and* not looking for him), which seems to be exactly what you're saying Dean should have (or would have) done in season 6.  He'd promised Sam he'd walk away from it and was doing what he thought Sam wanted, not what he himself wanted, and that's the difference to me.  

If Cas had brought back the "whole" Sam?  Yes, I can see him wanting to settle down next to Dean.  I can even see Dean trying for a while for Sam's sake.  But I think he'd get pretty bored, and would be happy to take off after any supernatural signs.  Sam could be happy doing research, writing, having a quiet life.  But Dean seems to enjoy the adrenaline brought about by action and danger.  Even retired police and firefighters tend to sit up when they hear the alarm bells going off.   I can't see Dean staying as a construction worker for the rest of his life.  That's why most fans seem to think that a non-hunting Dean would go into something like military, police or firefighting.  Even normal-craving Sam didn't seem happy in his decades after Dean died, and that was without the knowledge that his brother was trapped in a cage with Lucifer.  

It seems that settling down and hunting aren't mutually exclusive.  Jody and Donna take care of their own areas, either handling things themselves or calling for help; Garth seems pretty happily settled but is willing to help out, and way back when Samuel and Deanna raised Mary while still hunting.  Obviously other Campbells procreated or there wouldn't be any family line to continue.  IMO, the ideal "hunter network" would be a group of settled hunters who watch over a particular area of their own, supplemented by the young, drifter-type hunters who could help with larger hunts or find their own.  If they didn't want to retire and train new hunters, Sam and Dean could have had Kansas and Nebraska, from their base at the bunker.   Hunting or having a family shouldn't have to be either/or, but because of the way they were raised they never saw that.    

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Yes, he was friendly with neighbors and the bbq lifestyle, but that's something I always loved about early Dean--that he could always manage to fit in, no matter where (think: Folsom Prison Blues and Hollywood Babylon, for two very different styles), and to find things to enjoy everywhere.  (By the later seasons, the writers had him so sunk in depression and despair that he didn't even try most of the time.)

More like the writers had others ( mostly Sam tbh ) ridicule him for finding simple joy in the small things as opposed to just letting him enjoy himself as they did in the earlier seasons. 

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

More like the writers had others ( mostly Sam tbh ) ridicule him for finding simple joy in the small things as opposed to just letting him enjoy himself as they did in the earlier seasons. 

That's true, sad to say. But Dean was very depressed in S7 because of Cas' "death" originally, and then the loss of Bobby, while worrying about Sam's mental condition due to his "hellucinations". Even when Bobby's ghost returned to them, Dean knew it wouldn't work as he sat in the car and told Sam "What are the odds that this works? What are the odds?" It was only after Cas came back and healed Sam that Dean could almost feel like himself, but he was still determined to find a way to kill Dick Roman. And look what that cost?

[amazinglybored]

Poster from forever ago popping in to comment on the bio kids talk. I think the vessel storyline makes it canon that they didn’t have any kids kicking around, Ben or unknown, because they were never brought up at that point. Adam was John’s third child and that would have been it for him by the same logic. Maybe it’s down to Chuck, luck, sterility or being good with contraceptives, idk. But I think the show unwittingly established that there were no surprise kids or more surprise siblings around at that time. Even trying to make something like the angels being obsessed with the brothers as a narrative the reason doesn’t work because they would have used any offspring as leverage to make them say yes. Any kids in existence by then would have come up in seasons 4 and 5 to exist within the show and none did. Maybe after, but I doubt they were casual about protection after all of the bloodline and end of the world business. Until Dean 2 there wasn’t anyone and for all we know Dean 2 wasn’t Sam’s biological child because it was all comically vague.

 

As far as suburban Dean goes, I think he really tried but ultimately didn’t fit there and would have eventually left even without Sam returning. Neither brother would have hacked it in the normal world by that point even if they wanted to. Not without extensive therapy and the supernatural ceasing to exist; because of the supernatural any therapy would be dishonest or mean lying to the therapist to avoid sounding insane by thinking monsters are real.

[MAK]

1 hour ago, amazinglybored said:

Poster from forever ago popping in to comment on the bio kids talk. I think the vessel storyline makes it canon that they didn’t have any kids kicking around, Ben or unknown, because they were never brought up at that point. Adam was John’s third child and that would have been it for him by the same logic. Maybe it’s down to Chuck, luck, sterility or being good with contraceptives, idk. But I think the show unwittingly established that there were no surprise kids or more surprise siblings around at that time. Even trying to make something like the angels being obsessed with the brothers as a narrative the reason doesn’t work because they would have used any offspring as leverage to make them say yes. Any kids in existence by then would have come up in seasons 4 and 5 to exist within the show and none did. Maybe after, but I doubt they were casual about protection after all of the bloodline and end of the world business. Until Dean 2 there wasn’t anyone and for all we know Dean 2 wasn’t Sam’s biological child because it was all comically vague.

 

As far as suburban Dean goes, I think he really tried but ultimately didn’t fit there and would have eventually left even without Sam returning. Neither brother would have hacked it in the normal world by that point even if they wanted to. Not without extensive therapy and the supernatural ceasing to exist; because of the supernatural any therapy would be dishonest or mean lying to the therapist to avoid sounding insane by thinking monsters are real.

ITA. Within canon, this all makes the most sense. 

There is vagueness about Dean 2, but would have Sam renamed an adopted child after his brother? Just the fact that he is named "Dean" makes it seem that it was his biological son. Unless he adopted a child named Dean, which is messed up, IMO.

[amazinglybored]

8 hours ago, MAK said:

ITA. Within canon, this all makes the most sense. 

There is vagueness about Dean 2, but would have Sam renamed an adopted child after his brother? Just the fact that he is named "Dean" makes it seem that it was his biological son. Unless he adopted a child named Dean, which is messed up, IMO.

I think he was supposed to be Sam’s biological son. It’s just that there’s a lot of wiggle room there and they don’t categorically establish it so you could come up with a number of theories that can’t be proven or disproven. Adoption (naming the kid Dean or picking a Dean), being in a relationship with a woman who already had a kid, biological son, rescuing or taking in an orphaned kid from something supernatural (more likely than legal adoption but the show could ignore that anyway), etc. It was vague enough that you can’t really say any are invalid and I wouldn’t count on the writers spotting something being too messed up to do. Maybe the vessels and bloodlines made him never have a biological child, or maybe that would motivate him to as a failsafe for the world because they won in the end. You can go in circles with different theories because they gave so little.

 

Maybe he hit the blurry woman’s dog with his car, saw her call her kid Dean and stayed. /s