S04.E01: Green Arrow

[dtissagirl]

“It’ll feel organic and very earned,” he promises. “It’s actually very elegant.”

 

None of those words mean what you think they mean, Guggie.

[statsgirl]

Well , that explains why everyone at the meeting except Quentin ended up dead. I really liked DD telling them "you don't seem particul As well as mayor's Star(ling) City has a bad record with DAs too.

 

I like that they are keeping in the season openers Oliver running and later riding in a limo.

 

Oliver talking about going to the farmer's market was adorable.  Farmers markets are the best.

 

I laughed at Thea's "I owe Laurel fifty bucks" re how long it's going to take before Oliver starts lecturing her.

 

That flashback wig may be the worst one of all.

 

Gravestone:  if it's any of the main characters, my money's on a Lance.  Oliver would be more upset if it were Felicity or Thea, and more guilty if it were Diggle unless it happened because he was investigating HIVE because of his brother's death.

 

How ironic, Quentin telling Oliver that he is a monster who brought the monsters to the city when he himself is working with the biggest monster of all.

[tennisgurl]

I like how Dig is following the "my superpower is shooting people" train of superheroing. 

[nksarmi]

Ok I feel completely and utterly trolled by the writing staff lol.  And I was so enjoying that episode too!  Loving Felicity, loving Oliver, shocked by Lance but willing to see where it goes, and Darhk was already a badder villain in one episode than Ras all of last season.....then bam, right in the kisser!

[InsertWordHere]

 

“It’s not a fake-out. That’s not how we roll,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim says of the season opener’s dramatic reveal.

Yeah, because they've never faked us out with a death before, right? It's not like Malcolm, Oliver, Thea, Roy, or 

Sara

, not to mention most of Team Arrow in that stupid episode ending last season, have ever been presumed dead and returned. Oh wait. 

[AyChihuahua]

How does it make it organic when they don't even know who died.

 

Whatever, they're strongly implying it's Felicity, and they won't actually kill her or Diggle or Thea or baby Sara.  I don't really care if they kill anyone else.  I just hate that they are continuing on emotionally manipulative bullshit path.  And the rest of the episode was so good.

 

Also, Quentin is apparently in full control of his faculties and still working with DD.  He needs to die in a fire ASAP.

[wonderwall]

[Deleted by mod.]

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[foreverevolving]

Here it is: 

 

http://www.etonline.com/tv/173462_arrow_season_4_premiere_who_is_dying/

Yea.. if that dead is sticking it can't be Felicity... Maybe Oliver told everyone he wanted to be alone (or she realized it cause she is perceptive when it comes to him) so that is why felicity isn't there..

I don't think it is Lance.. neither will it be Baby Mama.

I do think they are faking it that they don't know who it is.. that kind of info is something you usually figure out in advance so you could write towards it as the episodes progress.

 

potential suspects: Lance, Nyssa, Laurel (I wish), Thea, Lyla or a yet to be introduced character?

[cambridgeguy]

Hey, Hal Jordan was in that bar in Coast City!  Too bad he's probably training on Oa right now, they could really use a Green Lantern.

[Morrigan2575]

Hey, Hal Jordan was in that bar in Coast City!  Too bad he's probably training on Oa right now, they could really use a Green Lantern.

Huh?

[BkWurm1]

I'm trying to process this...good episode, though.

 

EDIT: Whoever's dead better not be another woman!! Stop that, Arrow!

So most likely are Thea (going crazy and too aggressive), Diggle (digging into Hive on his own and getting over his head) or Felicity (wanted to come back to this life and the risks that come with it)

 

It's Lance's. Felicity will be teased but they don't have the balls to do that. Either him or Diggle...or Thea even

 

Ok..so why did they need Oliver at first? All of his advice/instructions were things that they could have figured out on their own. 

There is a logic to it being Lance but I'm not going to be happy with anyone's death. 

 

Oliver was nice as extra fighting power but really, let's be honest, what they needed was Felicity and her computer there full time. 

[bethy]

How does it make it organic when they don't even know who died?

Right? How can he call it earned if they don't know who it is? That makes no sense.

[opus]

I actually don't really pay attention to the opening credits, so my bad.  There's been too many surprises spoiled by opening credits.

I'm with you actually. But this time I noticed.

[foreverevolving]

Okay seriously.. where was Barry in the opening Credits?!! a need a gif or something, pretty please!

[Delphi]

Incidentally, in regards to Oliver being alone, i think it would be in characer for Felicity to give Ollie his space after a funeral. I don't want to jump to conclusions.

[Guest]

I'm actually thinking it's the Quentin dying to protect Oliver theory that was mentioned above. 

 

I hope so. I'm so done with him anyway. It would maybe explain why he's getting more scenes this season. Raises the stakes a little.

 

It's just OMG, I would be done with this show if it's Felicity. DONE.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Guest

[InsertWordHere]

The thing that worries me most is Oliver's vow to kill again. Could be a misdirect, but if Oliver is threatening to kill the person responsible for the death, it limits the possibilities down to Felicity and Diggle. Thea too, but I am ruling her out because she already kind of "died" last year. I don't think he'd kill for Lance. 

[opus]

Okay seriously.. where was Barry in the opening Credits?!! a need a gif or something, pretty please!

Sorry, sorry, I just meant Grants name.

[nksarmi]

Well, no one who was actually dead dead has come back yet, so it's not really a lie. 

 

Well if trailers count, that will soon change. :)

[EmeraldArcher]

I loved how much light there was in the episode. Even Star City had sunshine, despite the ominous need to search the station for bombs. I expected more of a contrast between the 'burbs and the beleaguered city.

So, SA called that ending scene game-changing on social media. I don't think he'd discuss it in that way if any of his co-stars were being killed off the show, especially EBR. It would seem gross and really mean spirited once the reveal occurs in-show. I'm hoping that the game-changing aspect is how LoT enables alternate realities due to changing the course of events. So, this future doesn't have to be set. I would definitely rage-quit if it is....nope, can't even go there. Will not go there.

Until that last part, I LOVED every part. However, I thought they were setting it up for the proposal to still go through, especially with his video and her comment about his hopefulness. I can understand he'd wait a bit longer if he thought they were still returning to the 'burbs, but I don't understand why he didn't propose in the loft as part of their "I'm happy and in love wherever we're together."

[InsertWordHere]

Okay seriously.. where was Barry in the opening Credits?!! a need a gif or something, pretty please!

Grant Gustin's name was in the credits, Barry didn't show up until the last scene. I knew there was going to be something big at the end because the episode was wrapping up and I was waiting for Barry to show up. 

[apinknightmare]

The thing that worries me most is Oliver's vow to kill again. Could be a misdirect, but if Oliver is threatening to kill the person responsible for the death, it limits the possibilities down to Felicity and Diggle. Thea too, but I am ruling her out because she already kind of "died" last year. I don't think he'd kill for Lance. 

 

I don't think his vow to kill him limits who it is to just Felicity and Diggle. I think whoever died probably died saving Oliver's life, and so he's going to take DD down permanently out of respect/obligation.

[nksarmi]

How does it make it organic when they don't even know who died.

 

Whatever, they're strongly implying it's Felicity, and they won't actually kill her or Diggle or Thea or baby Sara.  I don't really care if they kill anyone else.  I just hate that they are continuing on emotionally manipulative bullshit path.  And the rest of the episode was so good.

 

Also, Quentin is apparently in full control of his faculties and still working with DD.  He needs to die in a fire ASAP.

 

I'm not ruling out Darhk having his ex-wife as a hostage or

Darhk promising him Sara's resurrection. I know I assumed it would happen in Ra's LP, but Darhk does have some of the water and apparently access to other magic. That might be why he's "moved past" things with Laurel - he made a deal with the devil to get Sara back.

 

I strongly suspect it's Lance who dies and I think they already know it - they are just messing with us.  They've already set it up perfectly.  Lance is telling Oliver he's a monster and he brought the darkness to the city.  If Lance has really "gone over to the dark side" he has to do the hero's death of redemption at some point.  Oliver will blame himself for creating a situation where Lance went dark and then probably died to save him.  So Oliver will vow to end Darhk. 

 

And since the death and funeral probably happens after something big - I can see Barry popping in to check on Oliver despite not being close to Lance himself.  I honestly think Barry would be more emotional if it was Felicity.  And if it is Lance, the others (Felicity, Diggle, and Thea) are probably with Laurel.

Edited October 8, 2015 by nksarmi

[foreverevolving]

Sorry, sorry, I just meant Grants name.

Thank you!

I watched the episode from the start so I was literally going a bit crazy here thinking how could I have missed seeing Barry (although my stream did freeze for a few seconds during the kitchen scene.. but..

[AyChihuahua]

The thing that worries me most is Oliver's vow to kill again. Could be a misdirect, but if Oliver is threatening to kill the person responsible for the death, it limits the possibilities down to Felicity and Diggle. Thea too, but I am ruling her out because she already kind of "died" last year. I don't think he'd kill for Lance. 

Seriously.  He's only killed, post S1, for Thea and Felicity.  It won't be Thea...too repetitive.  It's Felicity.  These showrunners just piss me off up the ying-yang.

[benteen]

I knew something was wrong with Lance just let DD step out of that meeting without trying to stop him but I never expected this.

 

Thea doesn't have a good screaming voice when she was yelling at the people to get out of the train station.

 

Only Felicity, Diggle or Thea's death could hurt Oliver like that.

[BkWurm1]

Hey, Hal Jordan was in that bar in Coast City!  Too bad he's probably training on Oa right now, they could really use a Green Lantern.

When the camera first panned in to the bar where Oliver was having a drink with Waller, it passed super close to a guy, so close that all you can see was the name tag on his leather jacket (Jordan).  And then I guess he left since everyone else in the bar was working for Waller. 

 

On that note, I actually did not see sending him back to the island coming until he woke up in the cargo plane.  I'm not sure how I feel about that. 

 

Actually, with that ending I'm having a hard time commenting on anything.  And I was just brimming with comments before that.  Then, whoosh, all the talking points get pushed aside.  Haunting was a very good term to describe it.

[La Dee Da]

I'm not going to focus on that last scene - they are going to have soooo many red herrings it will be more scarlet neon herrings holding signs saying "ask me about my red herringness!" all season long on three shows! No thank you! Also, it took away from that great reveal about Lance - I'm very curious about his motivations and how/if they keep him on the good side.

I thought it was a really good opening to the season - continuity for Diggle and Thea, solid theme laying work. I'm surprised they went so far with Damian, both in terms of his announcing his eeeeevil intentions and his abilities. I also liked the little details, like the reference to Walter and Oliver going over his proposal in his head while Felicity answered the door.

[statsgirl]

The last scene was bad, but not even in the same universe as the last scene in 3x01 when Sara died.  I'm counting my blessings.

 

No, David Ramsey, the helmet doesn't look better in action.  Plus when you wear black, it makes it hard to distinguish Diggle from the bad guys.

 

I didn't appreciate the beating up on Oliver by Laurel and then Thea, Lance and Diggle at the train station.  Nor Digg and Laurel not listening to him in the new lair. I get it, they want to show they grew up and can handle everything by themselves but you did ask him to come back because you couldn't handle it yourself.

 

Still, it seemed like Felicity was almost more useful than Oliver.  I wish they hadn't cut Felicity's line of "you only wanted Oliver back because he comes with my fingers."

 

Hey, Hal Jordan was in that bar in Coast City!  Too bad he's probably training on Oa right now, they could really use a Green Lantern.

Nice tease with the jacket.  And all the Kord Industry mentions.

 

Oliver said "I don't care that you lied to me.  I care that the entire time we were supposed to be away together, a part of you was still here." 

WTH Oliver?  You don't get to decide how Felicity feels and what she wants.  Odds are she wouldn't have lied to you about working for the Team back home if  you would have let her.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Just a very quick "I love MOST of it." Olicity was AMAZING. The fight was maturely handled and all kinds of adorable. I really enjoyed Thea. I hurt for Digg. Laurel is still a mess. I'm sure they didn't mean for me to laugh hysterically in that train scene with the kid. Back later. Have to watch and savor. Oh, and I'm calling Quentin for the death.

[nksarmi]

Well last season they teased us with someone's death a lot in spoilers, so now they just want everyone to have the fun of being trolled.  And I think the dead that stayed dead included Mateo and Ras.  I think with the new show coming they could prevent or undo a lot, but since the EPs say it's someone who stays dead, I honestly believe it's Quentin.  I'm not worried at all.

[EmeraldArcher]

Did anyone else catch Oliver's fancy stunt while boarding the train? He might be bringing back Arsenal's stylish (and not always necessary) flips and maneuvers.

I have to get off this Who'sGonnaDie Train. It stresses me out way too much, and not in a good way. It pretty much sucks.

Oh, and Guggie? Death is only fucking "earned" by the villains, never the heroes.

[BkWurm1]

Also, Quentin is apparently in full control of his faculties and still working with DD.  He needs to die in a fire ASAP.

 

Ok, so Lance is working with DD but never agreed to the killing and blowing stuff up (implying that Lance seemed to think working with DD was going to turn out not the worst thing) but then DD reminds him that he has absolutely no choice in the matter.  So DD has some kind of hold on him but at the same time, we know Lance totally knows all about Oliver and who his associates are (aka the people he loves) but I don't get the feeling that Lance is going to cough that info up any time soon. 

 

I think we need to know more about why Lance is working with DD before I judge.  There has never been anything to suggest that Lance would be in favor of the Malcolm Merlyn style of city building. 

 

Side note, so the DA is dead but no mention of Laurel's day job.  Yet. 

[apinknightmare]

I think he means that it's earned in that whoever dies is going to sacrifice themselves for Oliver. AND IT'S GOING TO BE QUENTIN, IT IS.

[Lantern7]

So . . . what was worse? Last year's last minute whacking of Sara, or the flash-forward? I'm thinking the former, since a Lance might die, and I'd be peachy keen about it. Quentin, why the hell are you working with Dark? I don't think we're going to get a good reason, aside from his daughter and her friends have driven him insane. If he still had hair, he would've pulled it out by now.

 

Nice that Olicity can work in and away from the field. Ollie and Felicity are just so cute together, but it's not at all sickening. I really hope Felicity doesn't get whacked. She's just too awesome, and I figure she's the best female character on the show. I mean . . . Thea is a loose cannon thanks to the Lazarus Pit, and Laurel is still Laurel.

 

Does Diggle have a name to go along with the helmet? It reminds me of Tyveculus from Who Wants To Be A Superhero?

 

Show? Don't tease me about Hal Jordan. Also, I did see Grant Gustin's name in the credits . . . as well as John Barrowman. I would've thought Malcolm would be too busy Ra's-ing it up in Nanda Parbat, and Nyssa would be thinking up new ways to murder him.

[calliope1975]

Oh my cheesy, beloved show is back. That was fun! 

 

DD is how I've always pictured Ra's so I'm just going to pretend he's the real Ra's. Oliver and Felicity were adorable dorks, and I loved every moment they were on screen together. Thea's adorable if not exactly threatening or forceful in her presence. I think she'll make an excellent sidekick until she goes bananas from the LP. Damn, Dig was way harsh, Tai, but I understand his point of view. I'm looking forward to the inevitable bromance reconciliation. I'm also on board now with

Dig maybe going down a darker path.

However, the Magneto-lite helmet doesn't work for me, even in motion. I don't loathe it, but I'm not a fan. 

 

Lance being a turncoat was surprising. Not sure where they're going with that. Once again, I have no idea what Amanda Waller sees in Flashback!Oliver. Maybe we'll learn this year why he's such a special snowflake. 

 

Ultimately, I didn't want to throw something at my TV like S3E1, so yay! progress. 

[Primal Slayer]

 

So cute.

[BkWurm1]

Laurel is still a mess. I'm sure they didn't mean for me to laugh hysterically in that train scene with the kid.

 

Why the hell did the kid say she was strong?  I don't get it.  Did I miss something.  I only saw her help him stand up.  Strong was such a weird thing to comment on. 

 

I have to get off this Who'sGonnaDie Train. It stresses me out way too much, and not in a good way. It pretty much sucks.

 

I want off but they cut the breaks about twenty miles ago. 

 

Speak of which, would it have killed them to mention what happened to the people that were on the train coming from Central City?  I'm assuming the heroes didn't blow them up but didn't seem like there were any survivors. 

[statsgirl]

I thought the death was going to be "earned" in terms of the storytelling, as opposed to that cheap shot that Sara's death was.

 

 

Did anyone else catch Oliver's fancy stunt while boarding the train? He might be bringing back Arsenal's stylish (and not always necessary) flips and maneuvers.

I saw it and rolled my eyes.  A bit too CGI for me.

 

Other thoughts from the episode:

I liked the opening with Oliver and Felicity happy, well Oliver happy, contrasted with Thea, Laurel and Diggle fighting back home.

 

I was glad to see that Quentin and Laurel had reached a kind of detente over her evening job.

 

Kudos to SA for Oliver's expression when he came out with the souffles and found they had company.  I think he was worried about forgetting which souffle had the ring too.

 

Felicity couldn't get in the car to go back to Star City fast enough, could she?

 

I don't understand -- if they figured out that the explosives were on the train, why didn't they call the PD and get them to stop the train and get everyone off?

Edited October 8, 2015 by statsgirl

[Primal Slayer]

With how fast this episode was, there was probably a scene cut right before the little boy says that to her.

Why the hell did the kid say she was strong?  I don't get it.  Did I miss something.  I only saw her help him stand up.  Strong was such a weird thing to comment on. 

 

[foreverevolving]

Oh my cheesy, beloved show is back. That was fun! 

 

DD is how I've always pictured Ra's so I'm just going to pretend he's the real Ra's. Oliver and Felicity were adorable dorks, and I loved every moment they were on screen together. Thea's adorable if not exactly threatening or forceful in her presence. I think she'll make an excellent sidekick until she goes bananas from the LP. Damn, Dig was way harsh, Tai, but I understand his point of view. I'm looking forward to the inevitable bromance reconciliation. I'm also on board now with

Dig maybe going down a darker path.

However, the Magneto-lite helmet doesn't work for me, even in motion. I don't loathe it, but I'm not a fan. 

 

Lance being a turncoat was surprising. Not sure where they're going with that. Once again, I have no idea what Amanda Waller sees in Flashback!Oliver. Maybe we'll learn this year why he's such a special snowflake. 

 

Ultimately, I didn't want to throw something at my TV like S3E1, so yay! progress. 

untapped raw darkness that she can easily mold to whatever she wants him to be... it's easier to mold something that is not solid.

kind of like... Chocolate, if it's solid the most you can do is scrap it and chip it, but when it's in liquid form.. you can turn into Pralines, truffles, candy bars, the most amazing showpieces in some incredible shapes!.. you just need the right tool aka mold :-)

in our case Oliver is the liquid chocolate, Waller is the chef, and the environment is Ollie's mold.

 

and now I want chocolate.

Edited October 8, 2015 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

 

With how fast this episode was, there was probably a scene cut right before the little boy says that to her.

 

I think he said it because she picked all forty pounds of him up off the floor? 

Edited October 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I actually expected him to complete the "strong" with "female character" just in case the anvil didn't land on my head.

[calliope1975]

Forgot to mention the grave scene. My one cent is it's Lance. After seeing Oliver with Felicity tonight, boy would be devastated if she died. He and Barry would not stand there looking melancholy. Plus, we have 5 months where Barry can interact with Lance - if it is him. 

 

It wasn't the gut punch of Sara's death for which I am very grateful. There's only one character I'd be okay if they were killed off, but still, my number one suspect is QL. I wonder if there will be clues throughout the season or if that one scene is the only mention we'll get. 

[AyChihuahua]

Ok, so Lance is working with DD but never agreed to the killing and blowing stuff up (implying that Lance seemed to think working with DD was going to turn out not the worst thing) but then DD reminds him that he has absolutely no choice in the matter.  So DD has some kind of hold on him but at the same time, we know Lance totally knows all about Oliver and who his associates are (aka the people he loves) but I don't get the feeling that Lance is going to cough that info up any time soon. 

You are a lovely person, but OMG.  He is working with someone who is murdering people left, right, and center.  There is no scenario in which he comes out of that as not a bastard.

[nksarmi]

Why the hell did the kid say she was strong?  I don't get it.  Did I miss something.  I only saw her help him stand up.  Strong was such a weird thing to comment on. 

 

I want off but they cut the breaks about twenty miles ago. 

 

Speak of which, would it have killed them to mention what happened to the people that were on the train coming from Central City?  I'm assuming the heroes didn't blow them up but didn't seem like there were any survivors. 

They covered it - they said no one comes to Star City/ Starling City about 20 times in the episode - so clearly no one was on the train. :)

[wonderwall]

I actually expected him to complete the "strong" with "female character" just in case the anvil didn't land on my head.

 

Y'ALL ARE JUST ON FIRE TONIGHT.

 

God bless all of you

[EmeraldArcher]

I thought the death was going to be "earned" in terms of the storytelling, as opposed to that cheap shot that Sara's death was.

But, I thought Laurel "earned" Sara's death?! (You lobbed that to me underhanded and straight across the plate, right?) ;-)

Did anyone else catch the little Olicity flirty-flirt at the beginning regarding being all sweaty from his run? Felicity is the.best.ever.

[BkWurm1]

I think he means that it's earned in that whoever dies is going to sacrifice themselves for Oliver. AND IT'S GOING TO BE QUENTIN, IT IS.

 

 

 

Ok, if the show runners were actually certain of who is going to die, I might believe that they have an earned and heroic end for him, but since they haven't committed to anyone, all I can think is anyone might be on the chopping block.  Ratings and feed back on characters is probably going to influence what happens.  Unless they do know and are just lying to keep from being hounded about it.  Ack!  I hate them for their mind games.   Still...

 

The last scene was bad, but not even in the same universe as the last scene in 3x01 when Sara died.  I'm counting my blessings

 

This soo freaking much. 

[apinknightmare]

Ok, if the show runners were actually certain of who is going to die, I might believe that they have an earned and heroic end for him, but since they haven't committed to anyone, all I can think is anyone might be on the chopping block.

 

I don't really believe that they don't know who it is.