Episode Discussion: TFGH

[HeatLifer]

LMAO. I'm the ONLY person who doesn't want Emma to be Robin's child. ONLY person who has said this. Haven't liked her since Britt/Sabrina/Patrick. It's not just about the story right now.

[backhometome]

WTF are you fucking kidding me Lucky leaves because of Jason. I hate this so much. 

[TeeVee329]

Ron picked the worst possible way to write Lucky back out.

 

I thirst for Nikolas' downfall, I THIRST.

[HeatLifer]

WTF are you fucking kidding me Lucky leaves because of Jason. I hate this so much.

He would never do that, btw. He would never keep this secret. But Ron strikes again!

[Artsda]

Lulu asked Dante what I was thinking, if he changed the sheets. 

 

Nik telling Lucky was for pure selfish reasons. I don't think Nik wanted Lucky to stay. So he dropped more weight on him, no way Lucky was going to choose to stay and keep that secret. He would telling the truth and stay or go. Lucky and Nik's reunion was so awkward, I forgot they hadn't seen each other since the rutting/Siobhan time. Lucky and Ethan have so much a more natural and loving relationship. 

 

Helena taking Jake makes no sense with him being Jason's son. This whole resurrection is nonsense with even Luke not getting it when trying to explain it to Dylan.

[Bringonthedrama]

Question for those who were watching regularly when JMB and SC were teenagers on the show: is Carly correct that Dillon is Lulu's old boyfriend? Or is it just revisionist writing again? I really thought they were friends who had a one-time hook-up that resulted in pregnancy at a time when Dillon was in love with Georgie and Lulu had a big crush on Dillon.

 

Lucky giving Nikolas WTF/are you out of your mind faces about Jason/Jake and it's all fine...GOLDEN. I'm surprised Lucky is incredulous that Elizabeth knows; he could see she was a mess when he left town. The 'darkness inside me" is not a good reason for staying away from his sons because he absolutely knew Elizabeth was not in a healthy emotional place either.

 

If you leave, Elizabeth and the boys will have Jason, if you stay, Elizabeth and the boys will have you....WOW Nikolas proving himself to be a douche each and every day. Nikolas is so nonchalant about the holding the truth about someone's life in his hands for so long...hey Lucky if you want to tell him I'll respect that decision. 

 

Very disappointed at Lucky just watching Jake throw a ball to someone he can't see, hearing voices, and then just walking away from Liz's house somewhat teary eyed. No way would Lucky allow Nikolas and Elizabeth to go on deceiving Jason, and have it inevitably blow up and hurt his sons and their mother. Total cop-out writing!!!! As usual.

[ulkis]

Ron picked the worst possible way to write Lucky back out.

 

I'm shocked, shocked, that there's gambling going on in here!

[HeatLifer]

Ron picked the worst possible way to write Lucky back out.

I thirst for Nikolas' downfall, I THIRST.

I'm SO tired of Nik and Liz's party line of, "Sam is happy with Patty; the Q's are over it!" In another storyline happening at the SAME TIME, Liz and Lucky just got their son back who they thought was dead. Lucky would never do this to Sam or the Q's! It's so RIDIC. Ron doesn't even CARE anymore. Just...wow on so many levels.

[Francie]

Ron picked the worst possible way to write Lucky back out.

"You all were complaining that I wrote Robin out in the worst way possible, so I decided to prove you wrong!"

 

~Ron

[Lillybee]

What a nasty way to undo that nice farewell scene between Nik and Lucky when Nik left because TC got fired.

[backhometome]

Also according to those who know about Jason, only Elizabeth's kids deserve to have a dad. But screw Sam/Danny who cares about them. Only delusional Elizabeth.

[TeeVee329]

Question for those who were watching regularly when JMB and SC were teenagers on the show: is Carly correct that Dillon is Lulu's old boyfriend? Or is it just revisionist writing again? I really thought they were friends who had a one-time hook-up that resulted in pregnancy at a time when Dillon was in love with Georgie and Lulu had a big crush on Dillon.

 

They never were boyfriend/girlfriend, IIRC.  He was part of a harem chasing after her, but she went to Logan and then Johnny, and Dillon went bye bye.

[HeatLifer]

"You all were complaining that I wrote Robin out in the worst way possible, so I decided to prove you wrong!"

~Ron

And it's so cute that he ignores the Robin factor whenever he wants. Nik knows Robin brought Jason back to life. So she knows he's out there. And, logically, Lucky would ask Nik what happened with Robin and Patrick. It's STANDARD dialogue that Ron won't touch because he knows he wrote himself into a black hole. Edited July 14, 2015 by HeatLifer

[ulkis]

I'm SO tired of Nik and Liz's party line of, "Sam is happy with Patty; the Q's are over it!" In another storyline happening at the SAME TIME, Liz and Lucky just got their son back who they thought was dead. Lucky would never do this to Sam or the Q's! It's so RIDIC. Ron doesn't even CARE anymore. Just...wow on so many levels.

 

I'm kinda mad at JJ for going with it. Blah. And for walking on set with that mullet. Mostly the mullet.

[TeeVee329]

And of course, we had Carly off to the side going on and on and ON that Jason was the savior in gifting Jake's organs to Joss, never mind that Lucky was his legal father.

[GHScorpiosRule]

They never were boyfriend/girlfriend, IIRC.  He was part of a harem chasing after her, but she went to Logan and then Johnny, and Dillon went bye bye.

 

 

He was? I remember him being Georgie's boyfriend and Lulu scheming with Diego to make him think that Georgie cheated so they had sex ONE time; just like they went on adventures ONE time.

[ulkis]

I wish they were writing this more "Jason was a murdering hitman, so let's not reveal his true identity and risk that man coming back" instead of "Sam is happy with Patrick and Liz is happy with Fake Jason!"

 

That would make more sense, if they are going to have Nik and Liz and Lucky keep this secret.

 

All we need is a scene of Ghost Emily umming that it's the right thing to do while they all make smores again.

He was? I remember him being Georgie's boyfriend and Lulu scheming with Diego to make him think that Georgie cheated so they had sex ONE time; just like they went on adventures ONE time.

 

He was. He and Milo and Spinelli followed her around. It was horrible. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by ulkis

[Lillybee]

And of course, we had Carly off to the side going on and on and ON that Jason was the savior in gifting Jake's organs to Joss, never mind that Lucky was his legal father.

 

 

It was Lucky who convinced Liz to have Jake's organs donated. Why does everyone forget that?

[TeeVee329]

He was? I remember him being Georgie's boyfriend and Lulu scheming with Diego to make him think that Georgie cheated so they had sex ONE time; just like they went on adventures ONE time.

 

I vaguely remember a time where Dillon, Spinelli, and Milo were all fighting for Loo's attention, but I'm sure ulkis can speak to this better than I.

Edited July 14, 2015 by TeeVee329

[HeatLifer]

I'm kinda mad at JJ for going with it. Blah. And for walking on set with that mullet. Mostly the mullet.

Lollllllllll. "Fine. I'll come back to this stupid show that makes no sense. But my mullet will show them!!!!"

[Bringonthedrama]

"You all were complaining that I wrote Robin out in the worst way possible, so I decided to prove you wrong!"

 

~Ron

WOW, I was just thinking exactly that about Lucky's departing scene.  Also, that I'm really ticked off the conversation wasn't Lucky- Nikolas-Laura because that's what I read it was going to be. Laura greets Lucky while talking to Nikolas, then disappears during the commercial break. And that's it for Laura and Lucky. FAIL!!! :(

[Oracle42]

I've pressed "like" buttons on both sides of this argument, you all have good points and I don't feel very strongly about Jake either way. If forced to choose though, I'd probably come down on the "should not have come back" side of it, just because I'm sick of Ron using "it's a soap!" for everything.

It's a soap but it's not Passions or DOOL, it's not even 80s GH. Passions was canceled and DOOL has a completely different identity.

Even aside from his limitations with narrative structure I think RC is a mismatch for GH.

[Harmony233]

He was? I remember him being Georgie's boyfriend and Lulu scheming with Diego to make him think that Georgie cheated so they had sex ONE time; just like they went on adventures ONE time.

I don't think the harem stuff lasted long but it sure started my hate of Lulu lol.

[backhometome]

 

Carly off to the side going on and on and ON that Jason was the savior in gifting Jake's organs to Joss

She didnt even mention Lucky too. LIke it was Elizabeth and Lucky. It wasnt Jason's decision at all.

[ulkis]

I vaguely remember a time where Dillon, Spinelli, and Max were all fighting for Loo's attention, but I'm sure ulkis can speak to this better than I.

 

Oh, no, I can't, not anything from 2007-8, I know little of. Spinelli drove me away. I do remember vaguely that you are correct.

[TeeVee329]

She didnt even mention Lucky too. LIke it was Elizabeth and Lucky. It wasnt Jason's decision at all.

 

That was my point, she didn't mention her cousin once.

 

Carly: We are family!  I got all my Spencers with me!  But only when I need some-thing!  Get up everybody and sing!

Edited July 14, 2015 by TeeVee329

[GHScorpiosRule]

She didnt even mention Lucky too. LIke it was Elizabeth and Lucky. It wasnt Jason's decision at all.

 

 

Sure it was! He, (Jason) after all, had to go to Liz and ask her; and after she slapped him, he asked Lucky--who agreed and had to convince Liz. See? It was JASON!

[magnolia11]

I vaguely remember a time where Dillon, Spinelli, and Max were all fighting for Loo's attention, but I'm sure ulkis can speak to this better than I.

 

It was Dillon, Spinelli and Milo.  And it was freaking annoying.

[HeatLifer]

So can Patrick know about Jason yet or does he still get to live in his "I'm here to make Samantha happy and drop my child off somewhere" bubble?

[jsbt]

The moment Jake died, I thought Helena could be behind it. She is no stretch of the imagination for me. She's always what I expected to happen if anyone dared go there, and now they have.

 

I don't particularly care for the execution, though I think they have explained a little more here and there, piece by piece, over the last few episodes and may or may not do more. They could and should do more and I agree the way they've written it has been incredibly slipshod and lazy. I just don't see endorsing the change as endorsing the way they've executed it, or endorsing what Ron does overall. To me it's simply something that needed to be done. The ridiculous changes like this often aren't the ones I really hammer him for - it's when he uses the same logic but applies it to everyday material. Character beats, story beats, pacing, interpersonal relationships. That's the stuff he neglects when he exploits soap logic.

 

And sure, Jake will probably go into the cupboard with the other kids a lot until they want to use him. That's what most (too many, IMO) soap kids do. But someday he won't, and someday he'll be older, and there is so much to draw upon there. Whether or not GH has a future or this writer is the right one to create that future, a soap should always, IMO, strive to invest in one. This does that. Killing Jake was, to me, a cynical awards ploy designed to service JFP's block voting and a mobular canvas. This is at least a vote for something more.

[Bringonthedrama]

What a nasty way to undo that nice farewell scene between Nik and Lucky when Nik left because TC got fired.

Seriously ... I'll assume that was TC acting in dark Cassadine mode because Nikolas showed zero warmth toward Lucky. He behaved like he was talking to an old business acquaintance. He did the same thing with Laura; you would never know he hadn't seen his mother or brother in years. He's all, no worries if you go, this guy isn't a stranger, he's good with Elizabeth and the boys.  HATED the "So is he!!" line in response to Lucky saying I'm Jake's father. I agree that he didn't really want Lucky to stay. Ugh.

[UYI]

Oh, no, I can't, not anything from 2007-8, I know little of. Spinelli drove me away. I do remember vaguely that you are correct.

 

Taking this to the History thread. 

[dubbel zout]

And of course, we had Carly off to the side going on and on and ON that Jason was the savior in gifting Jake's organs to Joss, never mind that Lucky was his legal father.

It was Lucky who convinced Liz to have Jake's organs donated. Why does everyone forget that?

 

I haven't. Jason INSISTED that Carly get Liz and Lucky's permission, because Jason WASN'T the legal parent.

[Oracle42]

So Lucky is perfectly alright with Liz continuing this delusional clusterfuck that is definitely going to blow up in her face and hurt their kids?

I mean, "the darkness" was stupid but this is just...

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

I'm kinda mad at JJ for going with it. Blah. And for walking on set with that mullet. Mostly the mullet.

 

I'm not necessarily mad at him, but it makes me wonder what kind of contract (if any) people who do these short stints sign on for? Couldn't if he have seen the scripts and been like "Yeah, I'll do this Luke stuff and even though this Jake brought back from the dead for reasons crap, but this stuff with Nikolas, forget it." Or just called in sick for the last few scenes. 

 

I know that some people were really worried they would go the Robin route and have Lucky kidnapped as his exit, but I think that would have been preferable to how he exited. I swear I was hoping and praying during that last scene that Lucky wouldn't be swayed by the "heart-warming" scene of Jakeson throwing the ball to reanimated Jake and right as he had his hand on the doorknob, someone would knock him out. Yeah, Nik kidnapping his own brother would suck, but he's already got such a long road ahead to any possible redemption, better his character is sacrificed than Lucky's.

 

But no, Lucky for reasons known only to the writers actually buys into Nik's bullshit about how if Lucky tells the truth either they'll have Jason or they'll have Lucky. Jason would still be his biological father if he told him the truth. That Lucky would do this, to not only the Q's, but Sam, a woman he loved, is just sickening. And quite frankly, Lucky's muted reaction to Liz and Nik keeping this secret doesn't bode well for other's reactions. He should have been far more horrified that both of them would do this. Plus, Lucky didn't even bother asking what Nik's motivation in all this was. I know JJ's time was limited, but there was no reason to do half the shit they've had Lucky doing, if they were just going to half-ass it in such a character sacrificing way.

 

 

This is at least a vote for something more.

 

I feel like that's giving the writers too much credit. IMO it's more like RC trying to create the most shocking twist ever and pulling something out of his ass. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by FilmTVGeek80

[WendyCR72]

So Lucky is perfectly alright with Liz continuing this delusional clusterfuck that is definitely going to blow up in her face and hurt their kids?

I mean, "the darkness" was stupid but this is just...

 

Maybe his deepest subconscious wants Liz to suffer as she made him suffer. And really, Liz is an adult or supposed to be. Lucky shouldn't have to babysit her or teach her right from wrong at her age.

 

Besides, isn't one of the things that was complained about - in terms of the L&L2 dynamic - Lucky's Sir Galahad complex? I'm glad that cycle is broken. Time for Liz to grow the fuck up and step into reality on her own. And if it hurts her to get there, consider them battle scars.

[HeatLifer]

Killing Jake was, to me, a cynical awards ploy designed to service JFP's block voting and a mobular canvas. This is at least a vote for something more.

And bringing Jake back was not some warmhearted, "I'm planning for the future of this show!" gesture from Ron. This is also a ploy. Nothing more, IMO. I'm happy for y'all who wanted Jake back. I really am. It's super cool when a show reverses something you thought never should have happened, for whatever reason (Becky's firing, Luke, legacy characters, etc).

But some things you just shouldn't reverse, in my mind. I'd love Stone, Emily, BJ, Alan, AJ, Justus, Badass Faith, to all come back, too. Would it make sense? No.

[Artsda]

JJ should have refused to do any scenes in Port Charles or anything to do with Nik/Liz. Do everything with Luke/TG because he's the only reason he returned. 

 

RC wanted to milk  and use JJ's return for Jake/BM/Nik plot reasons. Surprised RC didn't say Lucky had a pop start Nashville girlfriend.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Artsda

[WendyCR72]

My problem with Jake is he wasn't brought back because story demanded it. He was not returned because of outcry. He was returned because the hack in charge needed another shock and awe moment to disguise the fact that, as always, he couldn't tell a coherent story. So here comes Demon Jake to gloss over the holes. It's sloppy as hell.

[Originalroux]

So after 3-5 days of relative (for this show/these actors) or understated acting tomorrow we're back to those we don't care about in stories that shouldn't exist. While I wasn't watching when Jake was hit/Luke takes off (I came back shortly after) I feel like, barring the Frank Smith stuff, the scenes have been well done. I realize there are continuity issues but for the sheer pleasure of watching some outstanding acting between people who seem to enjoy being in scenes together I've really enjoyed the last few days. I could've done without Lante and Valerie and Carly and Sonny (shirtless? Seriously? ) but everything L3 and Liz (L4) has been wonderful

Then I saw what was "coming up next" and said "why bother". All my enthusiasm and joy was sucked out by those we don't care about. Oh well....

[jsbt]

And bringing Jake back was not some warmhearted, "I'm planning for the future of this show!" gesture from Ron. This is also a ploy. Nothing more, IMO.

But some things you just shouldn't reverse, in my mind. I'd love Stone, Emily, BJ, Alan, AJ, Justus, Badass Faith, to all come back, too. Would it make sense? No.

 

No, I think it actually was him planning for the future, in his own backwards way. He does that stuff, though he fucks it up more often than not. But I suspect he's wanted to pull this rabbit out of his hat for a long while. It also, I'm sure, will serve a short-term bullshit plot purpose in which crazy Liz contorts herself into some nonsense fucking reason why she won't tell Jason the truth because now their son is alive.

 

It's the same sort of thinking that led these two to save Robin from perma-death, to be honest. They were the ones who stepped in and said they would not kill Robin off, and would never kill Robin off because of who she is and what she represents, though that was what Garin Wolf had planned. That doesn't excuse the horrible hash they've made of Robin's stories since, but their intent 3 years ago was clear and, IMO, the right choice. It's what comes after with RC that is so often the problem.

 

And yeah, B.J., Stone, that's one thing. Georgie, Emily, Alan, A.J. (twice), Jake? Those were all horrible fucking mistakes and I'd bring them all back tomorrow. At once. In the same episode. I don't give a fuck.

Edited July 14, 2015 by jsbt

[Oracle42]

Maybe his deepest subconscious wants Liz to suffer as she made him suffer. And really, Liz is an adult or supposed to be. Lucky shouldn't have to babysit her or teach her right from wrong at her age.

Besides, isn't one of the things that was complained about - in terms of the L&L2 dynamic - Lucky's Sir Galahad complex? I'm glad that cycle is broken. Time for Liz to grow the fuck up and step into reality on her own. And if it hurts her to get there, consider them battle scars.

I'm ok with whatever fallout Liz gets but I take issue with the idea that Lucky is such a deadbeat that he would let his kids suffer for Liz's shitty decisions in addition to being MIA for four years.

Ugh. I knew this Jake crap wasn't about redeeming Lucky

[Bringonthedrama]

Oracle - He's not alright with it - he told Nikolas so. But I think we were supposed to infer from his forlorn face at watching little Jake and hearing Jakeson-Liz-Jake sound happy that he feels he should just walk away ... because he thinks he's no good for kids /has the darkness inside him like Luke.  It's a variation of Robin's "I'm broken, tell my daughter I love her" Skype call with Patrick and Anna before Helena cut her off completely from her old life. So awful. 

[HeatLifer]

No, I think it actually was him planning for the future, in his own backwards way. He does that stuff, though he fucks it up more often than not. But I suspect he's wanted to pull this rabbit out of his hat for a long while. It also, I'm sure, will serve a short-term bullshit plot purpose in which crazy Liz contorts herself into some nonsense fucking reason why she won't tell Jason the truth because now their son is alive.

It's the same sort of thinking that led these two to save Robin from perma-death, to be honest. They were the ones who stepped in and said they would not kill Robin off, and would never kill Robin off because of who she is and what she represents, though that was what Garin Wolf had planned. That doesn't excuse the horrible hash they've made of Robin's stories since, but their intent 3 years ago was clear and, IMO, the right choice. It's what comes after with RC that is so often the problem.

And yeah, B.J., Stone, that's one thing. Georgie, Emily, Alan, A.J. (twice), Jake? Those were all horrible fucking mistakes and I'd bring them all back tomorrow. At once. In the same episode. I don't give a fuck.

LMAO. You crack me up (in a good way.) I get you. I just disagree. Jake is just not in the same category as those other characters, especially Robin.

[WendyCR72]

I'm ok with whatever fallout Liz gets but I take issue with the idea that Lucky is such a deadbeat that he would let his kids suffer for Liz's shitty decisions in addition to being MIA for four years.

 

I get what you're saying and I do agree to a point: But these kids have been hurt again and again already because A. Liz has a "grass is greener" complex and can't stop wanting what she can't have and B. Lucky was too busy staring at stones in Ireland or running from his own pain [that Liz, 9 times out of 10, caused him] that his own shit blinded him to what his kids need.

 

So, this is actually sadly consistent. Hence why I really want Cam to be a nightmare and as screwed up as Zander, his biodaddy. At this point, Liz and Lucky deserve it.

[jsbt]

I feel like that's giving the writers too much credit. IMO it's more like RC trying to create the most shocking twist ever and pulling something out of his ass. 

 

I don't, but I think you're right as well. I think we're both right, because I think those conflicting impulses often exist simultaneously in Ron Carlivati's mind - the eye towards the future while also becoming preoccupied with his own ego, or shock and awe, or just lazy shorthand plotting. As strange as that can be, that's often the way he is, all at once. And then he forgets about all of it in order to showcase more of Franco or Nina.

[dubbel zout]

Georgie, Emily, Alan, Jake? Those were all horrible fucking mistakes and I'd bring them all back tomorrow. At once. In the same episode.

 

As long as Helena is reanimating corpses, why not bring back more? It's not going to make any less sense.

[tallyrand]

Regardless of the Liz factor, Lucky still decided not to seek out Sam and let her know that Jake is Jason.  And he used to supposedly love her.  It's almost like Lucky selfishly did not want to stay with his children and used Jake/Jason as an excuse, like oh well they are a happy family now, I'm out of here to go live a life of adventures without having to be tied down.  Lucky is basically doing the same thing Liz is (lying to someone, and continuing that lie, in order to "protect" someone's family).  Of course Liz's lie is way worse because she's sleeping with Jake, but Lucky is now complicit in this tomfoolery as well.  But I'm sure when the truth comes out, no one will be yelling at Lucky for not telling his one-time love.  

[InsertWordHere]

Speaking of bringing Emily back from the dead, this whole thing would work so much better if a revived Emily was being held somewhere and Nik was forced to keep the Jakeson lie because of it. Lucky would legitimately be torn if the choice was between saving his best friend and telling the truth about Jason. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[HeatLifer]

As long as Helena is reanimating corpses, why not bring back more? It's not going to make any less sense.

All Ron has to write is "And then Helena did it..." *commercial break*..."Oh, how wonderful! Let's have lunch."