S04.E04: Duly Noted

[Surrealist]

Didn't Jason essentially admit to this in Episode 3 when he whined that his parents have given him freedom to be as creative as he wants and he now he's stuck reporting to a bean counter who's stifling his creativity?

I interpreted that as Jason saying his parents have bank-rolled his every whim. And the way he's played the adults on the project off against each other by running to another when the first doesn't give in to his incessant pleading is a classic spoiled child play.

He mentioned that they always supported his filmmaking dream and he was grateful for that. Something along those lines.

But he also said he based The Leisure Class on his wealthy friends. I felt as if he said it like he was some working or middle class kid who was given a seat at their table.

Clearly he's just as privileged, but perhaps lacks some degree of self-awareness when it comes to his socioeconomic status.

At least, that's what I gathered from what he's said.

[RemoteControlFreak]

But he also said he based The Leisure Class on his wealthy friends. I felt as if he said it like he was some working or middle class kid who was given a seat at their table.

What he said was:

 

"I've had friends who came from that [affluent] world a bit more than I did. I was looking at that world a bit from the outside."

 

I interpreted the "a bit more" part as meaning that he kind of came from an affluent world but wasn't quite as affluent as his friends who lived in, say, the Douglas Fairbanks mansion.

Edited October 6, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

'The Money Would Call His Bluff, In The End'
Sarah D. Bunting asked John Ramos to put his producer hat on for a Greenlight discussion. Related: John's billing for a new caps lock key.

[Irlandesa]

Nice to see that Ben Affleck was actually willing to fork over the money for film (but probably was never an earnest attempt.) somehow I don't think HBO would have any issue with them putting up money for the budget themselves.

Ben was much maligned last week but I think this was a good week for him overall.  When he heard about Farrelly Bros. quitting, he at least realized why Effie was upset (about Jason doing a run-around).  In his meeting with Jason, I  appreciated Ben sticking up for Effie, and the role she plays, in that moment.  He kind of split hairs in that he supported Jason with film and agreed that the line producer should be supportive in the director's vision but also said that the line producer is supposed to be the task master and they also need to know that the director supports their job as well.  So while he wasn't happy with what went down with Farrelly, I didn't get the sense from that convo that Ben thinks she should be gone.

 

And what problems has Jason caused big picture wise? They are still on schedule to begin shooting when they planned. He eventually compromised on the location. Seems like he just wanted to make sure they left no stone uncovered.

I think the problems are going to start creeping up in the upcoming episodes.  I won't go into previews here but one of those issues caused by the late decision was promoted in it. 

 

I also don't think Jason "compromised" on the location.  He had a deadline when the choice was about to be taken from him if he didn't choose one of the options.  He ended up choosing something he had earlier dismissed without even looking at it.  And that's where the problems about "who cares who chooses the location" come in.  The set designer didn't choose the location.  It was just a wild goose chase distraction because once they went inside, they discovered it wasn't workable.  That may have been the reason it never made the list of potential locations given to him by the location manager.

 

Not to come off as a dick but can you give me examples of directors who were fantastic AND are pleasant to work with?

Examples have been given but the issue isn't even about being pleasant to work with.  It's about collaborating and recognizing one's limitations.  It's about making decisions and staying within budget.  Pretty much every director has had experience with that and likely still do unless they're financing their own films.

 

Jason is allowed to get away with some of the stuff he's getting away with because the main purpose of the show is a TV show, not a movie.  In real life, if the camera isn't watching and a movie hasn't essentially been promised to an audience, production shuts down.  Or the director is replaced.  (The PreviouslyTV story from this week alludes to this.) 

 

Also, she didn't bat in eye when the production designer went "out of his lane," taking up time showing Jason a location without her, Marc or the location managers knowledge which probably ended up eating as much time as a digital vs film demo with Farelley and his DP.

Oh I don't know that she didn't bat an eye.  And during her conversation with the location manager, she looked, IMO, to be somewhat relieved that she had someone who felt her pain.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Irlandesa

[QuinnM]

Wow, Ben came off like the only non-neanderthal.  He seemed shocked that anyone would have trouble working with Effie.  I think we should all mark his warning on what will happen if Jason doesn't make his days.  Gosh it will hurt when they come in and pull the rug out from under him.  Maybe his parents will write a check.

 

 

I have to say the discussion between Farrelly and Effie wasn't anything people don't deal with every day at work.  What Farrelly was pissed about was that he was not being treated like the god he was.   So he quits, throws Effie under the bus, backs over her a couple of times, insuring that he has poisoned Jason's relationship with her.

 

And speaking of entitled little pricks.  Jason acting like they had just fired Pete Jones and how unjust that was is classic.  Jones's contract was a favor for the special snowflake, not a promise of lifetime employment.  I'm sure Jason sees this as a big compromise he had to make.

 

It's really fun and I'm not going to miss an episode.  I just want them to give Jason his wish and fire Effie, then replace her with Chris Moore.  Cuz Chris just loves special snowflakes.

[scrb]

In the media thread, there's a link where Jason says he was being misrepresented by the show.

[terrymct]

In the media thread, there's a link where Jason says he was being misrepresented by the show.

I read an article where he said that. While editing on reality shows can be...creative....they can't wholly fake his ass-i-ness. He's a pretentious git with no experience who isn't bothering to learn from people who do.

[mandigirl]

 

They immediately all turned it into a "personality conflict" between Effie and Peter F. Even thought Peter was theone who did the big Diva move ("screw you guys, I'm going home"), she was the one who was "difficult".

Word. I came to this last episode from a different perspective because I hadn't seen the other episodes. After seeing that Peter quit, I went back and watched the previous episodes. If I hadn't heard the phone call myself, I would have thought Effie had gone all 'Hulk' on him given his indignant reaction. He totally came off as a diva to me. What's more, he made himself look like the victim to every one else who hadn't heard the phone call, clearly creating this narrative that Effie was too difficult to work with.  The 'Goodbye' gift basket to Jason was a particularly nice flourish. 

 

This season has truly been fascinating. Any one who doesn't think diversity is important in Hollywood (hello Matt!) just needs to watch ten minutes of this show. The way they have sidelined Effie, who is just trying to do her job, is amazing. 

[Clanstarling]

I continue to think Effie is great for putting up with Jason and that's about it. She can truly irritating as well. There are plenty of faults to go around. Looking at the show, there is no way this show is interesting without Jason here. I often hear the results desire for a flat out reality show with the baked in drama but that almost always leads to nowhere interesting.

Not having watched any PG seasons before, I would actually find a series about the making of a film interesting - without half-baked drama. I'm interested enough in the process, and in understanding the different roles, not to mention seeing something from beginning to completion. Yes, Jason makes the drama happen, and I can't deny that it's compelling, but I wouldn't mind seeing an eager young filmmaker actually mentored through the process, learning how to balance vision with reality.

 

Ben was much maligned last week but I think this was a good week for him overall.  When he heard about Farrelly Bros. quitting, he at least realized why Effie was upset (about Jason doing a run-around).  In his meeting with Jason, I  appreciated Ben sticking up for Effie, and the role she plays, in that moment.  He kind of split hairs in that he supported Jason with film and agreed that the line producer should be supportive in the director's vision but also said that the line producer is supposed to be the task master and they also need to know that the director supports their job as well.  So while he wasn't happy with what went down with Farrelly, I didn't get the sense from that convo that Ben thinks she should be gone.

Oh I don't know that she didn't bat an eye.  And during her conversation with the location manager, she looked, IMO, to be somewhat relieved that she had someone who felt her pain.

I agree. My opinion on Ben changed a bit after that conversation. I agree with your take on Effie's state of mind as well.

Edited October 7, 2015 by clanstarling

[Racj82]

Not having watched any PG seasons before, I would actually find a series about the making of a film interesting - without half-baked drama. I'm interested enough in the process, and in understanding the different roles, not to mention seeing something from beginning to completion. Yes, Jason makes the drama happen, and I can't deny that it's compelling, but I wouldn't mind seeing an eager young filmmaker actually mentored through the process, learning how to balance vision with reality.

I agree. My opinion on Ben changed a bit after that conversation. I agree with your take on Effie's state of mind as well.

You would find it interesting but the show would be way less popular and would generate a lot less discussion. That's all I'm saying.

[Clanstarling]

You would find it interesting but the show would be way less popular and would generate a lot less discussion. That's all I'm saying.

I can't argue with that at all. You are absolutely right. It is after all a reality show and not a documentary. I  certainly find it compelling enough to watch and to comment. I would just like a few more scenes where stuff gets done, rather than argued about. Maybe that's in the upcoming episodes.

Edited October 7, 2015 by clanstarling

[Racj82]

I can't argue with that at all. You are absolutely right. It is after all a reality show and not a documentary. I certainly find it compelling enough to watch and to comment. I would just like a few more scenes where stuff gets done, rather than argued about. Maybe that's in the upcoming episodes.

Yeah, personally, I appreciate a good balance. The drama and the reality. We get see the arguments and stuff while also seeing the day to day of everything that goes into production of a movie. But, these pre production episodes are always front loaded with personal drama. I think, to go along with it, we would see more of the difficulties of casting like season 3. They got a lot of drama out of casting the principal characters. I don't think the show has had personalities as polarizing as Effie and Jason so they are rolling with it.

My whole thing is that feel like there has been a lot of black and white views on events of the season that I think are almost always greyer. Effie had a right to feel slighted by production issues going on behind her back but Pete wasn't solely in the wrong either and I have no problem with him not wanting to be bothered by that for example. Everyone has the right to be pissed at Jason about scouting for location. The other side is that I can see a first time director fighting to keep hold of his vision. Especially, in the wake of the subpar output done so far in the series.

[lidarose9]

I just rewatched the last ep and feel I have insight into Jason. He is an 11-year-old boy working on his big project for the Science Fair at his really expensive private school. He really wants to win this contest. He has just gotten started but has already spent all the money his parents gave him for the project and now he just can't understand how anybody could not see how the whole project will really just suck if he doesn't have this or that, and he knows if he whines about it long enough, Mom or Dad (he's working both separately) will cave for another $200. And he believes that it's apparent neither of his parents really understand him or truly care about his creative development as a science expert, and he's just confused and hurt.

 

Jason believes there is a magic room full of cash somewhere, and if Effie or Marc really cared, they would go unlock that door and just GET that extra money or extra time now, but the fact that they keep insisting there is no magic room full of money just proves they aren't really team players. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by lidarose9

[scrb]

From the linked article in the media thread, he's 30 and has been trying for awhile to get steady work in the business, including work other than features, tho on the show they're saying he just got out of film school?

But at one point he says he doesn't want to make compromises which would result in a shitty result or something to that effect. So it's as if he can take or leave Project Greenlight?

Then again he claims in the article he's getting more offers since the show and is now represented by William Morris.

Will be interesting to see the next gigs he gets after this.

[Julia]

He was taken on by William Morris, who also represent Affleck and Damon, after the first show aired. It's difficult for me to see that as something other than an agency doing a favor for high-profile clients by making it look as if they backed the right horse.

[pasdetrois]

I'm disappointed that the show has veered way over into personality conflicts and abandoned the nuts and bolts of making a movie. (Maybe this is routine - I've only watched season one of this series.)

 

I don't think Jason is unusual in the film world. He's just another determined "artiste" who is stubbornly sticking to his guns (and may or may not learn how to compromise if he wants to keep working). He's not a bad person because he comes from affluence. Less affluent folks can be just as stubborn and insensitive. It's not his fault that they all have to try to jam months' worth of production into several weeks.

 

The production folks are always running around trying to pull a show together with insufficient time and money. But Effie has brought the extra drama and they are focusing on that. She's a somewhat sympathetic character because she has to try to manage the chaos, but she's lost me during the Pete F. phone call. 

 

I don't think Jason dislikes her so much as he views her  an obstacle to be gotten around. As are the location folks. And anyone else whose job pressures threaten his creative control.

 

I did laugh when he decided Pete J. is his new best friend.

Edited October 8, 2015 by pasdetrois

[scrb]

It wouldn't surprise me if the producers were egging Jason on to insist on film, to make a big deal about the cast he wanted, keeping Pete around, etc. to make him come across as a diva.

And then at the same time tell Effie that there would be no film, that she had to lay the law down.

On other reality shows, of course they do multiple takes of these supposed spontaneous confrontations.

Why would PGL be different?

[clack]

It's become too much of an ego thing with Effie. Her job is to find the means so that Jason can accomplish what he wants to accomplish, no different than the jobs of the actors or the cinematographer.

Her "digital not film" position was defensible as long as there was no room in the budget for film. But now that Jason has won a larger budget, shouldn't she be triumphant? The movie has more money to use, and the director -- whose vision it is her job to serve-- has gotten what he believes he needs.

[Julia]

I think Effie can be professional and genuinely want to serve the director's vision and still have an issue with the fact that the director chose to spend his prep time undermining Effie with the EPs instead of explaining that he needed more money and wasn't willing to make the film without it.

She also has reason to be righteously cheesed that the people who hired her, who unlke Jason know something about the realities of producing a film not ten minutes long and financed with their parents' money, got all bro code and supportive with Jason instead of talking to their line producer to see if the guy who tried to have the writer fired first thing out of the starting gate without ever speaking to him might just be reporting the situation in a self-serving way.

Instead, after wasting artificially abbreviated prep time on canned drama, Jason is going into production with strong evidence that if his line producer says something he doesn't like all he has to do is hold his breath until he turns blue, and his fellow creative visionaries will fly in and take care of the mean lady for him. I don't think that bodes well. With a tight budget and rush charges? And this is providing him with the skills to make a real independent film how?

How happy should the professional being shat on by the spoiled neophyte be, exactly? I'm pretty sure nanny to a rich brat wasn't the job she applied for.

[MrWhyt]

Her "digital not film" position was defensible as long as there was no room in the budget for film. But now that Jason has won a larger budget, shouldn't she be triumphant? The movie has more money to use, and the director -- whose vision it is her job to serve-- has gotten what he believes he needs.

Jason got more money by doing an endrun around her, by undermining her. He also has put production into a bind by not selecting a location until the last minute and by micromanaging everything else. The script is not ready, they have little to no time to dress the location, the shot list is not done. They're about to start filming with all these other potential problems looming over them. Film vs Digital is decided but at a cost, if Jason can't make his days after making such a stink for film he'll quickly loose any support from HBO, who could pull the plug.

[clack]

But saying Jason is doing an end run around Effie, or is undermining her, is like saying Jason is doing an end run around an editor or the cinematographer by cutting the film his way or insisting on certain lighting for his shots. Jason is the boss, creatively.

And besides, Jason was right and Effie wrong. Turns out HBO was willing to kick in some extra money so that the movie could be shot on film, after all.

[radishcake]

"Instead, after wasting artificially abbreviated prep time on canned drama, Jason is going into production with strong evidence that if his line producer says something he doesn't like all he has to do is hold his breath until he turns blue, and his fellow creative visionaries will fly in and take care of the mean lady for him. I don't think that bodes well. With a tight budget and rush charges? And this is providing him with the skills to make a real independent film how?

Exactly. So well said.

[Julia]

But saying Jason is doing an end run around Effie, or is undermining her, is like saying Jason is doing an end run around an editor or the cinematographer by cutting the film his way or insisting on certain lighting for his shots. Jason is the boss, creatively.

And besides, Jason was right and Effie wrong. Turns out HBO was willing to kick in some extra money so that the movie could be shot on film, after all.

However, Jason was still wrong, because the battle he was fighting was film on the existing budget, which (when they stopped taking his prattle about Effie thwarting his creative vision seriously and looked at the budget) everyone agreed was not possible.

So he wasted everyone's time, and the film's time, when he should have come right out and said at the beginning I'm not willing to make this movie unless I get additional money for film. It's as simple as that. If that's the hill Jason wanted to die on, he should have sacked up and climbed it.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Julia

[MrWhyt]

Jason is the boss, creatively.

 

And besides, Jason was right and Effie wrong. Turns out HBO was willing to kick in some extra money so that the movie could be shot on film, after all.

Yes creatively he's the boss, but he's not Scorsese, or Coppala, or Speilberg, he's not even Speilberg's non-union Mexican equivalent, he is a first time director with no track record. HBO is not looking for Citizen Kane, they want a product and he needs to fit his vision into their finances. Yes HBO eventually gave him another $300k to go with film OR have more shooting days, but he made the wrong choice by going with film. No plan survives contact with the enemy, there will be other problems that they will run into during the shoot and by not compromising on film and making a big stink he's used up a lot of goodwill that he might have had with HBO. Of course with this being a show I doubt we'll see HBO just throw in the towel but if this was a real movie shoot, there would be the serious threat of that.

 

edited to add: Look at what happened with David Fincher's adaptation of Utopia with HBO. When the parties couldn't come to an agreement on a budget the show was cancelled before production began. Why (aside from the show aspect of it all) would anyone expect HBO to put up with Jason when they've shown a willingness to dump projects from actual respected and established directors?

Edited October 10, 2015 by MrWhyt

[calliope1975]

It's not just Effie that Jason has pissed off. It's also the location scouts and who else? He's the director, but the director alone can't make a movie. He needs a willing crew to realize his "vision." If he continues to lose friends with his stellar attitude, will his crew go the extra mile for him when the inevitable bumps in the road pop up?

[biakbiak]

I know Jason eventually came around and he and Pete Jones are BFF. However given that most of Pete's writing work post Stolen Summer is uncredited, I find it funny that the only logical and reasonable thing Jason has tried to do: fire the writer of the treacley, illogical and religiously insensitive/offensive Stolen Summer, he failed at. I guess Pete Jones' agent earned his keep!

Edited October 11, 2015 by biakbiak

[Quilt Fairy]

Considering that I can't even tell the difference between HD and SD on my 32in TV, what are the chances that I would be able to tell the difference between digital and film?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[clack]

Maybe Jason made a mistake in choosing film instead of 2 extra days shooting, but if he had listened to Effie he wouldn't have been offered either option.

Edited October 11, 2015 by clack

[Julia]

ED because it's not productive to engage on this level. Would that Jason learn the same.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Julia

[MrWhyt]

Maybe Jason made a mistake in choosing film instead of 2 extra days shooting, but if he had listened to Effie he wouldn't have been offered either option.

It's a pyrrhic victory, nobody but him thinks it's important to shoot on film. He would be better off with those extra days.

Edited October 11, 2015 by MrWhyt

[Clanstarling]

Maybe Jason made a mistake in choosing film instead of 2 extra days shooting, but if he had listened to Effie he wouldn't have been offered either option.

If he had listened to Effie he wouldn't have needed either option.

[ctkat1]

So I was simultaneously re-watching this episode in preparation for the new one tonight and reading an interview with writer/director Cary Fukunaga (first season of True Detective and Beasts of No Nation). Anyway, he was asked about dropping out of a project because he didn't want to compromise his artistic vision for the budget they gave him (which is exactly Jason's situation), and Fukunaga was quick to say that you have to compromise all the time, that every aspect of his film represents some compromise, and as a director you have to develop a skill set to advocate for what you want while also making everyone else happy.

 

It was an interesting juxtaposition, watching an episode where Jason refuses to compromise on anything and his entire production team (except for Pete) is so frustrated with him that they're barely able to do their jobs while also reading about a successful, newer director talk about how compromise is the most important part of film-making.

[ctkat1]

She thought she was going to be Chris Moore but they're really just letting her be Jeff Balis.

 

That is a perfect summation of Effie's current situation. Part of why Jason is getting away with so much is because none of the producers are able to be Chris Moore.

[Broken Ox]

I recently got an email from my do-nothing contractor who has absconded with a significant amount of my money saying that he was suing me for breach of contract. My reply? "Duly noted".

[radishcake]

I recently got an email from my do-nothing contractor who has absconded with a significant amount of my money saying that he was suing me for breach of contract. My reply? "Duly noted".

I have so added this to my repertoire at work! Makes it much easier to be really pissed without losing my job! ;)

[STOPSHOUTING]

HBO "caved" because Jason ran to Ben, who ponied up some of his and Matt's own money and convinced HBO to kick in the last $100k. It is not Effie's job to raise money, her job is to budget based on what funding HBO originally agreed to provide.

There was also a throwaway line later that they didn't actually take any money from Ben and Matt. Because, yeah, $100k to them is basically a weekend away with friends ... If they slum it. But it's also pretty much pocket change to HBO and they're big movie stars you don't want to nickel and dime.

 

So, we watched episode 3 one night, and this the next and ... I HATE JASON MANN WITH THE WHITE HOT PASSION OF A THOUSAND SUNS.

 

His pale, creepy hands fiddling, always fiddling, with his bleached hipster military cut and trying-too-hard-to-be-New-York wardrobe. He's Jack Skellington brought to life, just in time for Halloween. If Mann doesn't get work as a director after this -- and he most definitely SHOULD NOT, not even infomercial work -- maybe he could become part of Tim Burton's stable of creepy weirdos.

 

Every time he came on screen I just had this visceral reaction of: HATE. HATE. HATE. HATE. HATE!!!!!!!

 

There. I feel better now.

 

EDITED TO ADD: Tell me the resemblance isn't uncanny!

 

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by STOPSHOUTING

[Kenz]

Perhaps they are showing only the strange and selfish side of Jason. Maybe he has some pleasantness hidden in there somewhere??? When I saw the gift box full of goodies that Farelly sent him, I thought too bad, I doubt Jason will enjoy any of those treats. Please eat something, Jason! You'll need stamina to get through this ordeal.

 

Maybe I fell asleep, but were there no more clips of the casting process besides the two leads? I would have enjoyed seeing a bit of that instead of Jason's fixation on the color of an outfit for an actress.

 

If that line from the actor's reading is indicative of what this film will be like, will that be a porn comedy? That was disgusting. If that line stays in there, I'll have lost all respect for all involved.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Kenz

[SFoster21]

So I was simultaneously re-watching this episode in preparation for the new one tonight and reading an interview with writer/director Cary Fukunaga (first season of True Detective and Beasts of No Nation). Anyway, he was asked about dropping out of a project because he didn't want to compromise his artistic vision for the budget they gave him (which is exactly Jason's situation), and Fukunaga was quick to say that you have to compromise all the time, that every aspect of his film represents some compromise, and as a director you have to develop a skill set to advocate for what you want while also making everyone else happy.

It was an interesting juxtaposition, watching an episode where Jason refuses to compromise on anything and his entire production team (except for Pete) is so frustrated with him that they're barely able to do their jobs while also reading about a successful, newer director talk about how compromise is the most important part of film-making.

Hitchcock! was miffed because the special effects for "The Birds" caused a budget crunch and he had to go with Rod Taylor instead of a more well-known actor for his lead. Hitchcock! But this a-hole...

As an unapologetic movie nerd, I have heard directirs discuss the time difference between film and digital and it is considerable! The lighting in film is way more complicated, for example. One of my favorite movies, "The Anniversary Party," was shot largely on digital. This idiot is an idiot.

Edited October 16, 2015 by SFoster21

[radishcake]

One of my favorite movies, "The Anniversary Party," was shot largely on digital. This idiot is an idiot.

ooh I love that movie. And to the larger point yes people have to compromise to get anything done in ANY profession. There is a budget and your vision and something has to give sometimes. I mean just look at congress! *eyeroll

[Freelancer]

Not quite related to this episode, but related to some of the discussion in this thread: I just read that interview in the media section. I didn't realize he's from Burlingame/Hillsborough. That's not rich, that's FILTHY rich. We considered moving there (just had driven through it on a vacation and thought it was nice!), and when we googled, we discovered that Hillsborough one of the top 5 (I believe) wealthiest neighborhoods in the country. I grew up with upper-middle class/wealthy folks, which is what I pegged Jason for, but that sort of wealth is just next level. No wonder he never expects anyone to say no to him. 

 

Needless to say, we landed elsewhere. :)

Edited October 16, 2015 by Freelancer