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Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

Lisin
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JenMcSnark

JenMcSnark

(edited)

In California, vehicular manslaughter could be charged:

 

(1) Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 191.5,
driving a vehicle in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting
to a felony, and with gross negligence; or driving a vehicle in the
commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful
manner, and with gross negligence.

 

IF Bruce was found to be committing gross negligence at the time of accident.  

Edited to add:  You can also be charged with vehicular manslaughter if there was no gross negligence...it's just that the penalty is less:

 

(2) Driving a vehicle in the commission of an unlawful act, not
amounting to a felony, but without gross negligence; or driving a
vehicle in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death,
in an unlawful manner, but without gross negligence.

 

But you'd still have to be breaking a law such as excessive speeding, texting, etc.

 

I was recently on a jury where a driver had hit a woman on a bike in a crosswalk.  The CHP determined that the driver ran a red light.  The driver maintained that the light was green for her and the woman was in the crosswalk illegally.  

 

By killing someone while running a red light, she was found guilty.  It was not intentional.  It was an accident, but she acted with gross negligence by running the red light.  

 

We were instructed to not determine if she caused the woman's death, but if she had ran a red light or not.  If she had ran a red light, she was guilty.  If the evidence did not prove that she had ran the red light, she would have been innocent.

 

If Bruce were found to be speeding excessively, he could also be charged and convicted.  But just being inattentive is not enough for charges to be brought.

 

Also, I worked for Progressive Insurance in claims for many years and also had an accident where I rear-ended someone.  I was not at fault in any percentage.  The car in front of me pulled into the chicken lane with their left turn signal on and suddenly decided it wasn't the right street so pulled back into traffic.  There was nothing I could do. 

 

Thankfully, the skid marks and areas of damage determined what happened as well as one independent witness.  Their insurance paid for everything. 

 

It is entirely possible to not be at fault in some circumstances when rear-ending another vehicle, at least in California.  That is why you should never admit guilt or say sorry if you hit someone.  

 

Bruce, however, was totally at fault as the footage from the bus proves IMO. 

Edited by JenMcSnark
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millennium
millennium

I don't know how to explain my point of view to you.   Maybe I can't.   I don't have a problem with Jenner having money.   America is a country of haves and have nots, with most of us falling into t

millennium
millennium

It deeply offends me the way so many older transgender women use their poor fathering experiences to validate their gender dysphoria, as if to say,  See?  Nature never intended me to be a father.  The

millennium
millennium

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.       He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.  

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iwasish

iwasish

According to TMZ, it sounds like the Kardashians are separating themselves from Bruce & his sons. If this true, I wonder how Kylie & Kendall feel about it.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

They've never shown him the respect he would deserve if indeed he was their surrogate dad and so important to them. Way back to the beginning of the show, Kris was dismissive of him and allowed/encouraged the younger girls to ignore his attempts at discipline. He told them no to a dog, Kris bought it and had the girls hide it in their room. They wore too much make up and were disrespectful, she chastised him for criticizing them. He questioned whether Khloe was engaged (as a wedding was being planned) and Kris told him that he wouldn't be walking anyone down the aisle!

I can see Kim cutting him off, Khloe, I'm not sure about, Kourtney, while she's supportive of Bruce, it's more in response to Kris treating him badly, than any real affection. Even Rob, who I thought had a strong relationship with him, seems to be distancing himself. Kris's resentment of the time Kendall/Kylie spent with Bruce's sons was a huge clue as to her true nature.

Bruce is better off without them. hopefully his daughters will support him, but who knows, Kris has a powrful grip on them. The future will tell.

I do wish the paps would leave him alone until he makes his choice public. but sadly his association with the Kardashian Klan and participation in their exhibitionist lifestyle makes him a target.

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millennium

millennium

(edited)

I do wish the paps would leave him alone until he makes his choice public. but sadly his association with the Kardashian Klan and participation in their exhibitionist lifestyle makes him a target.

 

Killing a woman doesn't help either.

 

You're kidding, right?   He looks for the publicity as much as any of them.    You think the photographers just happen to be on hand every time he leaves a doctor's office?  You think they just happen to always get a revealing photo of whatever latest modification he's made to his face?   

 

And publicly announcing that you're going to make your choice public ... hmm, that sounds an awful lot like already going public to me.

Edited by millennium
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Artsda

Artsda

People - Bruce Jenner and Family 'Have Cried Together' over Car Accident

 

Bruce Jenner is struggling in the aftermath of the Malibu car crash that killed a woman – and, according to two sources, has turned to his family for emotional support.

"Bruce has talked to all of his kids about this," says a Jenner family friend. "They're all going to be there for him in any way that he needs."

Friends say that the former Olympic athlete, 65, is not worried for himself; he's thinking of Kim Howe, the 69-year-old woman who perished in the crash.

"Bruce is really devastated that someone died in the accident," says the family friend. "[The family's] hearts go out to the family of the woman who died."

One person who is helping the reality star deal with the tragedy: His ex-wife.

"They've cried together about this," says a source close to Kris Jenner. "She has told him that no matter what happens next, they're going to face it as a family. Bruce has Kris's full support. She'll be there for him to lean on every step of the way."

The Kris Jenner source continues: "She told him that if he needs anything, day or night, to call. "He has called her a few times, just to talk. She'll be there to listen any time he needs her."

According to police, Jenner rear-ended a Lexus on the Pacific Coast Highway, pushing it into opposing traffic, where it was struck by a Hummer. A Prius was stopped in front of the Lexus at the time of a crash.

In a statement, Jenner called the accident a devastating tragedy.

As police continue to investigate the crash, Jenner continues to pray for everyone involved in the accident.

"The family is so upset," says the Jenner family friend. "It's a very dark time."

iwasish

iwasish

"says the Jenner family friend" is code-talk for "planned leaker to get this story out to make this look completely natural and not like a snow job/P.R. move.".

Sure Kris talks to him whenever he needs to talk. And I'm sure she has it all on tape to use in the show, along with a camera to capture her tears over this tragic event that of course they wouldn't use for fodder for their TV show. That would be so tacky.

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Maysie

Maysie

And this is the problem I have with all of it. I can't feel sorry for Bruce if this is how he's handling his transition. It's not like he needs the money for pity's sake.

 

I'm fine with what he's doing as far as the transition thing goes; his life, he should live it as he sees fit. And I do see the value in telling his story so that people can learn more about transgenderism, etc. However, when it becomes part of a bad "reality" series . . . I'm at a loss. I can't have any sympathies for any hurdles he may have in front of him because it seems to me that he's really exploiting not just himself, but really, a serious issue for money or attention. It's not like it's going to be treated with any dignity, or even get a "very special episode."

 

This is really what I feared with all this. It'd be one thing if he'd done something on another network, away from the Kardashian brand, but as it is, it will seem staged like all the other crap they put on tv. Maybe in 10 years we'll be able to make light of the whole transitioning process -- the living in secret, the making the choice to live how you are, etc. -- but to have a real situation effectively rolled out to the American public on Keeping Up With The Kardiashians seems to minimize the struggle that a lot of people have gone through in the past.

 

"Transparent" is fiction, but I think it's doing a great job of presenting the issues that come with the process. It's sad that a real life story is going to be the cheap, sensational version and that the fiction will probably be more worthwhile when it comes to actually dealing with the issues.

Kromm

Kromm

Again, at the end of things it comes down to "not only good people are going to want to transition".  It's the same lesson we learned with "not every gay person is good" or before that the same for every group that's socially and politically stepped on.  So it comes down to "good cause, bad example" and Bruce Jenner is indeed a pretty bad example.

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GaT

GaT

If that's true and not that he "re-created" telling them on camera... then he is fucked up and so is Kris and the whole lot of them,  as if they weren't already.  

Why not, Kim had them recreate when Kris Humphries asked her to marry him because she didn't think her reaction was good enough. That's what they do, they don't live their lives, they create them for the camera so they have the memories on film.

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iwasish

iwasish

(edited)

Why not, Kim had them recreate when Kris Humphries asked her to marry him because she didn't think her reaction was good enough. That's what they do, they don't live their lives, they create them for the camera so they have the memories on film.

Her engagement is one thing... Having your dad tell you he's becoming a woman? and using it as entertainment is just beyond the realm. I recall Kendall's reaction to Kris and Bruce talking about him moving to Malibu and trying to passing off as something other than a separation, that was real emotion and it didn't belong on camera. No wonder she has slowly pulled away from them and seems to be trying to keep a more private life. The damage done to the two youngest girls may not be fully realized for a long time but I think they have been scarred.

But Kris will never admit it was the show and the too much too soon too little supervision that caused it.

Edited by iwasish
millennium

millennium

(edited)

Again, at the end of things it comes down to "not only good people are going to want to transition".  It's the same lesson we learned with "not every gay person is good" or before that the same for every group that's socially and politically stepped on.  So it comes down to "good cause, bad example" and Bruce Jenner is indeed a pretty bad example.

 

The problem is, he's the only example right now.  

 

No other person will have the real facts of their transition recorded and played out before the American public the way Jenner will.  No one will see the difficulties they labor under on a daily basis, the rejection and ridicule they face should they dare reveal themselves, or the dire financial hardships and employment discrimination many of them will suffer.

 

Instead, America's introduction to it all will come courtesy of multimillionaire and celebrity personality Bruce Jenner, who can readily afford any surgical procedure he desires from the best doctors (vs. those who have to settle for risky surgery in third world countries because that's all they can afford) and whose wealth and fame will insulate him from 99% of the rejection and outright hatred other transgendered folks face on a daily basis.

 

The American public are hypocrites when it comes to the transgender people.   People cite Laverne Cox and other celebrity transgender people as proof that transgender acceptance is becoming more widespread.   But it's a fallacy.   America will accept/excuse/tolerate virtually anything as long as it is wrapped up in a facade of physical beauty, wealth or fame.   The so-called mainstream transsexuals known and accepted by the public are either beautiful, famous or wealthy.   Would America be so wild about Laverne Cox if she  looked more like a man in a dress (as do many transgendered people)?   Would Lana Wachowski still be so respected in her industry if she hadn't been a fixture in the cult of personality before her transition -- or would she have been frozen out by her industry like so many other highly qualified transsexuals who suddenly beome embarrassments to their employers?  Would anyone have given a crap about Chaz Bono if he hadn't been Cher's kid?

 

Bruce Jenner is going to coast on that free-flowing good will America reserves for its beautiful, wealthy and famous people.  His story is in no way typical -- it's a fantasy, really, good enough to be filmed and spoon-fed to the public -- yet he's going to be the transgender community's most visible ambassador to mainstream America.

 

I already feel bad for transgender people in the near future who, in private, far away from cameras, will reveal their anguish to their families and meet with comments like "You mean you're like Bruce Jenner?"

 

Because they're not like Bruce Jenner at all.   And he's not like them. 

Edited by Lisin
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Artsda

Artsda

(edited)

Bruce Jenner -- I'm Putting On the Brakes for My Sex Change Docuseries ... For Now

http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/11/bruce-jenner-documentary-stopped-production-sex-change-show-crash/#ixzz3U6cRNw6K

 

Variety confirms - http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/bruce-jenner-e-docuseries-cancelled-postponed-1201450717/

Edited by Artsda
howmanywords

howmanywords

Its interesting that he wants to wait to make sure his kids are mentally ready.  I was just saying to someone a couple of weeks ago that no matter how much his children are saying "we support him" I figure deep, deep down this has to be tough for them and something that will take a lot of getting use to and probably a lot of therapy to deal with.

farmgal4

farmgal4

Not that anyone should trust Dr. Oz to find anyone informed, intelligent, or objective, but just out of curiosity who specifically was this person and what WAS that opinion?

I was only about halfway listening, but the guy was just an ordinary Joe Blow, and he was there with his ex-wife, who was very supportive of him. Dr. Oz asked him his opinion of Bruce and he never would really say one way or the other. He did say that it would be very difficult to go thru something like that while having your every move scrutinized by the public. I have a question though: I don't know the first thing about transgenders, but since Bruce is changing himself into a woman, does that mean that he is sexually attracted to men now?

Watermelon

Watermelon

I was only about halfway listening, but the guy was just an ordinary Joe Blow, and he was there with his ex-wife, who was very supportive of him. Dr. Oz asked him his opinion of Bruce and he never would really say one way or the other. He did say that it would be very difficult to go thru something like that while having your every move scrutinized by the public. I have a question though: I don't know the first thing about transgenders, but since Bruce is changing himself into a woman, does that mean that he is sexually attracted to men now?

Maybe, but not necessarily.

If he says he isn't, then essentially he would be a lesbian and his issue wasn't being attracted to the "wrong" gender, but BEING the "wrong" gender.

 

I gather the way it normally goes is like Chaz Bono, where they claim homosexuality first and then reconcile with being transgender.

Kromm

Kromm

I know there's a portion of the transgender community who's totally up in arms about this (I talk with a trans friend on another board who's been telling me this for months).  A lot of them HATE Bruce Jenner--who's thrust himself forward as their undesignated public representative--but have to bite their tongues a lot because they feel they need to convey unity.  

 

It's what some might call "The Al Sharpton Effect".  

nexxie

nexxie

I know there's a portion of the transgender community who's totally up in arms about this (I talk with a trans friend on another board who's been telling me this for months).  A lot of them HATE Bruce Jenner--who's thrust himself forward as their undesignated public representative--but have to bite their tongues a lot because they feel they need to convey unity.  

 

It's what some might call "The Al Sharpton Effect".

Except, Bruce hasn't yet said he represents anyone.
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Kromm

Kromm

Except, Bruce hasn't yet said he represents anyone.

The implication he has (according to my friend) is in the way he's been trying to create a new reality show around his transition. A lot of people in that community are very wary of the whole Kardashian trash effect spilling over into what they see as deadly serious business with them and their struggles being taken seriously and not as a circus.

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nexxie

nexxie

(edited)

The implication he has (according to my friend) is in the way he's been trying to create a new reality show around his transition. A lot of people in that community are very wary of the whole Kardashian trash effect spilling over into what they see as deadly serious business with them and their struggles being taken seriously and not as a circus.

Premature worry - who knows, this interview could help the cause by creating understanding in people who wouldn't ordinarily pay attention.

The show is on hold for now but could also help.

Edited by nexxie
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iwasish

iwasish

Premature worry - who knows, this interview could help the cause by creating understanding in people who wouldn't ordinarily pay attention.

The show is on hold for now but could also help.

I think in general people will be more accepting of someone like Bruce as a transgender than they might be of the next door neighbor or their kids teacher. Celebrity kind of puts a bubble of specialness around a person and regular people tend to given them more leeway. As difficult as it may be for Bruce on a personal level, he doesn't face the fear of losing a job, being broke etc. He can live up in the mountains of LA and associate only with those who are accepting and receptive to him.

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nexxie

nexxie

I think in general people will be more accepting of someone like Bruce as a transgender than they might be of the next door neighbor or their kids teacher. Celebrity kind of puts a bubble of specialness around a person and regular people tend to given them more leeway. As difficult as it may be for Bruce on a personal level, he doesn't face the fear of losing a job, being broke etc. He can live up in the mountains of LA and associate only with those who are accepting and receptive to him.

True - and a lot of people have fond feelings about him from his glory days.

I'll bet Bruce will take this opportunity to tell HIS/HER story, and not a lot will be said about the Kardashians.

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iwasish

iwasish

True - and a lot of people have fond feelings about him from his glory days.

I'll bet Bruce will take this opportunity to tell HIS/HER story, and not a lot will be said about the Kardashians.

I think he may discuss the affect his situation had on his marriages, if the wives knew/guessed/were told. But other than that I think he won't say much about the kids. 

nexxie

nexxie

I think he may discuss the affect his situation had on his marriages, if the wives knew/guessed/were told. But other than that I think he won't say much about the kids.

His first wife has spoken about it and seems very supportive. Don't know about the second wife. He should probably steer clear of the situation with Kris - she might sue him.
iwasish

iwasish

His first wife has spoken about it and seems very supportive. Don't know about the second wife. He should probably steer clear of the situation with Kris - she might sue him.

Kris is probably pissed that  he isn't letting her make her 15% off the story.

 

Judging from Bruce's remarks about wanting to bond with North and Kim's rather cool response, I don't believe she's really on board with it. She'll act the caring step daughter for her show, but she's Kris's daughter more than any of them and if Bruce is out with Kris, he's out with Kim. She's a cold bitch.

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nexxie

nexxie

Kris is probably pissed that  he isn't letting her make her 15% off the story.

 

Judging from Bruce's remarks about wanting to bond with North and Kim's rather cool response, I don't believe she's really on board with it. She'll act the caring step daughter for her show, but she's Kris's daughter more than any of them and if Bruce is out with Kris, he's out with Kim. She's a cold bitch.

Yeah, that scene about North playing hard-to-get!

To me it seems like both Kris and Kim are narcissists with no empathy for others.

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