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Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

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emma675

emma675

I have a question about the accident (mainly because I haven't followed any of the stories on it)--wasn't Jessica Steindorff stopped in the intersection trying to make an illegal u-turn and that's why Howe slammed on her brakes and then Jenner slammed into Howe? Why isn't Steindorff at fault for the whole thing? Admittedly, I don't understand too well how insurance works in accidents like this, but it seems like Steindorff's actions started the whole chain of events.

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millennium
millennium

I don't know how to explain my point of view to you.   Maybe I can't.   I don't have a problem with Jenner having money.   America is a country of haves and have nots, with most of us falling into t

millennium
millennium

It deeply offends me the way so many older transgender women use their poor fathering experiences to validate their gender dysphoria, as if to say,  See?  Nature never intended me to be a father.  The

millennium
millennium

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.       He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.  

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Coffeecup

Coffeecup

Yes, Steindorff could have started it all by stopping in the intersection. (If she did stop? I can't remember the details now.) However, all drivers are supposed to leave some distance between their cars and the cars ahead of them, so they can stop safely in this type of situation. Howe and Jenner were both following too closely.

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iwasish

iwasish

(edited)
1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Sadly she has to kiss someone else's ass for that (either Mark Burnett or Arnold Schwarzenegger).

 

1 hour ago, millennium said:

The next adventure?  What, Celebrity Boot Camp?   David Tutera's Celebrations?  Maybe her buddy Donald will pencil her in for the Spring 2017 edition of The Apprentice.

Naked and Afraid?

 

I'm kind of surprised she didn't make an appearance in Rio. 

Edited by iwasish
millennium

millennium

(edited)
2 hours ago, Kromm said:

Sadly she has to kiss someone else's ass for that (either Mark Burnett or Arnold Schwarzenegger).

Ironically, the more interesting story begins now.

Working title: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go.

Now Jenner has to live with it.    No cameras, no hired "girlfriends," no lights, no hair and make-up teams, reviled by transgender and non-transgender people alike, headed for court over the lawsuit, and no prospects of ever again commanding the kind of attention the show bestowed.   A person so driven to win, having to concede failure in the same kind of endeavor that Kris Jenner and all the Kardashian girls have seen so much success.

Oh, to be a fly on that wall.

Edited by millennium
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GaT

GaT

6 hours ago, emma675 said:

I have a question about the accident (mainly because I haven't followed any of the stories on it)--wasn't Jessica Steindorff stopped in the intersection trying to make an illegal u-turn and that's why Howe slammed on her brakes and then Jenner slammed into Howe? Why isn't Steindorff at fault for the whole thing? Admittedly, I don't understand too well how insurance works in accidents like this, but it seems like Steindorff's actions started the whole chain of events.

Both Steindorff & Howe were responsible for the accident. Steindorff had her license suspended in 2013, & it was still suspended at the time of the accident. Howe hadn't renewed her license since 2007, so neither woman had a valid driver's license at the time, & shouldn't have been behind the wheel of a car. If they both hadn't decided they were above the law & could drive without valid licenses, then they wouldn't have been involved in that accident.

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millennium

millennium

Just now, Coffeecup said:

Dancing with the Stars? They have a lot of has-beens.

It would mean dancing with a man.   Remember when she refused the dance lesson?  "I can't let my children see that!"  

Sure, attach DD's to your chest, even flash them at your own son ... but God forbid they see you dance with a man.   

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Coffeecup

Coffeecup

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 2:51 AM, millennium said:

It would mean dancing with a man.   Remember when she refused the dance lesson?  "I can't let my children see that!"  

Sure, attach DD's to your chest, even flash them at your own son ... but God forbid they see you dance with a man.   

LOL,  I forgot about her ill-fated dance lesson.

She's golfing for charity now:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/08/20/caitlyn-jenner-charity-auction-golf/ "Caitlyn Jenner: Take Me On If Ya Got the Balls And the Money" 8/20/2016 12:15 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

... "Caitlyn's putting her golf skills up for bid through the celebrity auction site Charitybuzz. The highest bidder will get a private round of golf with her in L.A. -- a great opportunity if golf's your thing... Charitybuzz predicts the winning bidder this time will have to drop around $10k. We're told Caitlyn will also cover the winner's food and drink tab for the day, and she's tossing in an autographed copy of her recent SI cover..."

Nice of Caitlyn to raise money for charity. But I had to laugh at the last bit -- is her autographed Sports Illustrated cover supposed to be a good prize? That cover was fugly. She should just autograph a golf ball instead.

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millennium

millennium

(edited)
10 hours ago, Coffeecup said:

LOL,  I forgot about her ill-fated dance lesson.

She's golfing for charity now:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/08/20/caitlyn-jenner-charity-auction-golf/ "Caitlyn Jenner: Take Me On If Ya Got the Balls And the Money" 8/20/2016 12:15 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

... "Caitlyn's putting her golf skills up for bid through the celebrity auction site Charitybuzz. The highest bidder will get a private round of golf with her in L.A. -- a great opportunity if golf's your thing... Charitybuzz predicts the winning bidder this time will have to drop around $10k. We're told Caitlyn will also cover the winner's food and drink tab for the day, and she's tossing in an autographed copy of her recent SI cover..."

Nice of Caitlyn to raise money for charity. But I had to laugh at the last bit -- is her autographed Sports Illustrated cover supposed to be a good prize? That cover was fugly. She should just autograph a golf ball instead.

Take Me On If Ya Got the Balls ...?

Class act, Jenner.   Real ladylike.   But then again, it's a great way for Jenner to remind everybody that she's not so very ladylike.   To underscore that she has balls. 

Jenner seems to go out of her way to keep reminding the public of her Y chromosome, like "Hey, I may have fake boobs and hair extensions, but I'm still THE MAN."

It's very much in keeping with the deliberate masculine persona she has maintained from the start.  

As for the autograph, it's not even like you can turn it around on eBay.   Jenner autographed items (both as Caitlyn and Bruce) have been selling on eBay lately (when they sell) for an average price of only about $30.

Edited by millennium
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Kromm

Kromm

I bet she's only shopping herself because she's being filmed.

And I don't much give a crap about anything body, but the face is where we can talk tragedy. It's like a Halloween mask. I know pre-anything transition, her male version already had tons of facial plastic surgery, but it really does look like she's gone totally nutso with it now.

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millennium

millennium

The cry of "privilege!" was heard loud and clear at the outset of this.   Perhaps having a ton of money to get any plastic surgery procedure desired will turn out to be a curse in the end.  

 

29 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I bet she's only shopping herself because she's being filmed.

 

Something may have been up.   The rag this photo appeared in called attention to the curious fact that Jenner pushed a cart full of groceries around the store for some time, but left the store empty-handed.

It looks like she has gained about 20 lbs.   Maybe all those Starbucks coffees she accessorizes with.  

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Coffeecup

Coffeecup

(edited)

Caitlyn needs a new publicist. All I ever see of her now in the tabs is a weekly pap photo in the Daily Mail. They're all the same: Caitlyn walking through some grocery store parking lot, pushing a buggy or carrying a bag. The DM dutifully says how great her legs look and describes her outfit. They often say she looks "lonely," "forlorn," or "sober-faced." Hmm, not a very good image.

Example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3805735/Caitlyn-Jenner-wears-jean-shorts-strappy-heels-picks-groceries-Malibu.html  "Stocking up! Caitlyn Jenner wears jean shorts and strappy heels as she picks up groceries in Malibu " She's pushing a buggy.

Radar has a rumor that Caitlyn is so desperate for publicity, now that her show got canceled, that she's willing to have Kris handle all her publicity and willing to appear on KUWTK again. Of course that's Radar; they fabricate a lot of their stories. However, maybe it's true this time; the DM said, in the article cited above: "... it's likely she'll show up again in the new season of Keeping Up With The Kardashians despite her divorce from momager Kris Jenner." 

 

Edited by Coffeecup
GaT

GaT

8 hours ago, Coffeecup said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3805735/Caitlyn-Jenner-wears-jean-shorts-strappy-heels-picks-groceries-Malibu.html  "Stocking up! Caitlyn Jenner wears jean shorts and strappy heels as she picks up groceries in Malibu " She's pushing a buggy.

 

This woman needs a stylist, especially one that isn't Kim, why is she wearing gold sandals with knee length jean shorts & a casual top?

millennium

millennium

(edited)

I ran across this while researching something unrelated to Jenner.   It's a behind-the-scenes look at I AM CAIT and its titular star by Dr. Lillian Glass, the body language specialist who was hired by the show to teach Jenner to comport in a more feminine manner.   Dr. Glass' segment ultimately wound up on the cutting room floor, presumably because it cast Jenner in an unflattering light.

It's a stark contrast to the many puff pieces we read while the show was active.   Speaking of contrasts, Dr. Glass' observations on Jenner as compared to other transgender clients she has worked with are quite interesting and tend to validate widespread suspicions about the degree of Jenner's commitment to being a woman. 

Caitlyn Jenner’s Canceled Show May Be a Blessing In Disguise

Edited by millennium
chocolatine

chocolatine

1 hour ago, millennium said:

the degree of Jenner's commitment to being a woman.

I know very little about the transgender community, so please forgive me if my question is ignorant, but would someone undergo that many surgeries, take hormones, and do everything else that a transition entails, if they weren't 100% committed to it? I just can't imagine going through such drastic and largely irreversible procedures for something I'm not sure I'm committed to.

Aw my lahgs

Aw my lahgs

1 hour ago, millennium said:

I ran across this while researching something unrelated to Jenner.   It's a behind-the-scenes look at I AM CAIT and its titular star by Dr. Lillian Glass, the body language specialist who was hired by the show to teach Jenner to comport in a more feminine manner.   Dr. Glass' segment ultimately wound up on the cutting room floor, presumably because it cast Jenner in an unflattering light.

It's a stark contrast to the many puff pieces we read while the show was active.   Speaking of contrasts, Dr. Glass' observations on Jenner as compared to other transgender clients she has worked with are quite interesting and tend to validate widespread suspicions about the degree of Jenner's commitment to being a woman. 

Caitlyn Jenner’s Canceled Show May Be a Blessing In Disguise

I ended up reading the entire piece because it was very interesting. The author is definitely very knowledgeable and respectful, and I have to agree with her observations. It absolutely seems like Caitlin has very little interest in adopting feminine mannerisms (body language, movement, speech habits and patterns), unlike other transgender women I have met in real life or seen on tv. It makes me doubt about her commitment to becoming a full blown woman.

millennium

millennium

(edited)
19 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I know very little about the transgender community, so please forgive me if my question is ignorant, but would someone undergo that many surgeries, take hormones, and do everything else that a transition entails, if they weren't 100% committed to it? I just can't imagine going through such drastic and largely irreversible procedures for something I'm not sure I'm committed to.

Nothing Jenner has undergone is truly irreversible, except the tracheal shave and the electrolysis.   The breast implants can be removed.   The cheek implants can be removed.   The hormonal changes will revert if hormones are discontinued.  The face can be restored to a male appearance if desired.  By all reports, everything else remains intact.

Jenner earned millions upon millions of dollars after getting those surgeries and publicizing it.   She became famous again, arguably even more famous than from the Olympics.  She received highly publicized awards.   Product endorsements.   She got her own TV show.   And her newfound celebrity and protected status may or may not have influenced the legal repercussions of the fatal car wreck she was involved in. 

Committed?  Sure.  But to what?  

Edited by millennium
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chocolatine

chocolatine

9 minutes ago, millennium said:

Nothing Jenner has undergone is truly irreversible, except the tracheal shave and the electrolysis.   The breast implants can be removed.   The cheek implants can be removed.   The hormonal changes will revert if hormones are discontinued.  The face can be restored to a male appearance if desired.  By all reports, everything else remains intact.

Thank you for the explanation, I didn't realize so many of the procedures were reversible. Though I still think that all of that takes a huge physical toll, so I struggle to believe that someone would put themselves through that just for publicity. But then again, I wouldn't put anything past a member of the Kardashian/Jenner family.

Do you think that in a few years Caitlyn is going to announce that it was all a mistake and go back to being Bruce?

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Aw my lahgs

Aw my lahgs

(edited)
1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Thank you for the explanation, I didn't realize so many of the procedures were reversible. Though I still think that all of that takes a huge physical toll, so I struggle to believe that someone would put themselves through that just for publicity. But then again, I wouldn't put anything past a member of the Kardashian/Jenner family.

Do you think that in a few years Caitlyn is going to announce that it was all a mistake and go back to being Bruce?

Nowadays I don't put anything past that family for publicity. It may very well be that initially she wanted to liberate herself and dress like a woman in public - something she's done for years in private. Maybe she realized actually BEING a woman is more than what she bargained for. Which is pretty sad considering she's struggled with that for many decades. Maybe she realized cross dressing (part-time) is more her thing. I remember reading a while ago that sources "confirmed" she'll be transforming back to Bruce in the near future.

Edited by Nutella
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millennium

millennium

9 minutes ago, Nutella said:

I ended up reading the entire piece because it was very interesting. The author is definitely very knowledgeable and respectful, and I have to agree with her observations. It absolutely seems like Caitlin has very little interest in adopting feminine mannerisms (body language, movement, speech habits and patterns), unlike other transgender women I have met in real life or seen on tv. It makes me doubt about her commitment to becoming a full blown woman.

Most transgender people have not only a deep desire to integrate with the gender they identify with, but also a very real need so that they can assimilate safely into society.   By safely, I mean everything from being able to find employment to not getting attacked on the street for being different.

Jenner seems to lack the desire to complete the transition.   She seems to want to wear women's clothes but that's as far as it goes.   Which is fine.   Everyone can be who they want to be.  The thing is, Jenner gave the public the distinct impression that she wanted to become a woman, with everything that entails.   But in practice, she has done little more than dabble in the most superficial aspects of womanhood -- clothes, hair, makeup -- with no real attempt to embrace the deeper and more subtle elements of femininity. 

Compounding the apparent lack of desire is the fact that Jenner has no real need to establish a convincing female identity.    She doesn't need to look like an average woman to get a job.   She can dress and behave any way she pleases because she doesn't to have to worry about attracting unwanted attention.   She does not have to live with the fear of being beaten or killed in the street.   She has the money and fame to buy acceptance, tolerance and safety.   Her ivory tower has even insulated her against written or spoken criticism; celebrities and others who publicly criticized her or even made an innocuous joke about her faced public backlash on social media.

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iwasish

iwasish

6 hours ago, millennium said:

Most transgender people have not only a deep desire to integrate with the gender they identify with, but also a very real need so that they can assimilate safely into society.   By safely, I mean everything from being able to find employment to not getting attacked on the street for being different.

Jenner seems to lack the desire to complete the transition.   She seems to want to wear women's clothes but that's as far as it goes.   Which is fine.   Everyone can be who they want to be.  The thing is, Jenner gave the public the distinct impression that she wanted to become a woman, with everything that entails.   But in practice, she has done little more than dabble in the most superficial aspects of womanhood -- clothes, hair, makeup -- with no real attempt to embrace the deeper and more subtle elements of femininity. 

Compounding the apparent lack of desire is the fact that Jenner has no real need to establish a convincing female identity.    She doesn't need to look like an average woman to get a job.   She can dress and behave any way she pleases because she doesn't to have to worry about attracting unwanted attention.   She does not have to live with the fear of being beaten or killed in the street.   She has the money and fame to buy acceptance, tolerance and safety.   Her ivory tower has even insulated her against written or spoken criticism; celebrities and others who publicly criticized her or even made an innocuous joke about her faced public backlash on social media.

I imagine she spends most of her time up in her Malibu estate, dressed up and made up, alone , or with Rhonda. She ventures out for the occasional  trip to the grocery store or Starbucks, and a solitary round of golf or a day at the race track, alone in her car. 

Maybe she's content to be primped and pampered by her glam squad and trying on her newest outfit or admiring her collection of purses. 

Hopefully her older 4 kids keep in touch. Not sure about the younger ones or her step kids, I suspect those relationships have suffered. 

Now that she's become what she has always dreamed of does she look out over the beautiful landscape and wonder " is that all there is?" 

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laurakaye

laurakaye

Is it possible that Caitlyn simply wanted the ability to cross-dress in public, and decided that the only way she'd be able to do that is to fully transition?  Like the above poster said, it seems like an incredible amount of surgeries to put oneself through if she wasn't sure about how she'd feel with the end results.  I guess I wonder if, in Caitlyn's mind, the attention she'd get for cross-dressing might not be so harsh if she were to transition.  From what we've seen, she seems to be very focused on the superficial aspects of being a woman - the clothes, hair, make-up, name-checking designers, etc.  It doesn't seem to go much deeper than that.

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millennium

millennium

Maybe it was a decision as simple as "I can crossdress all the time AND I'll make a gazillion dollars."   Being transsexual doesn't curry much respect in our society, but being a crossdresser is even more dimly regarded.   Because crossdressing is a sexual paraphilia -- a fetish.   It's motivated not by a desire to change your life, but by sexual stimulation.  A crossdresser's view of womanhood is usually confined to surface details because that's all their purposes require.

Had Jenner announced "I'm a crossdresser and this is how I want to live my life," the reaction would have been very different.   It would have met with none of the sympathy that came from proclaiming "I'm a woman and I've had to hide it all my life."   Jenner would have become a national joke.   Because Jenner would have been seen as "a man in a dress," which Jenner opined "makes people uncomfortable."

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GaT

GaT

5 hours ago, iwasish said:

Maybe she's content to be primped and pampered by her glam squad and trying on her newest outfit or admiring her collection of purses. 

 

In other words, she's a Kim clone

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Like the above poster said, it seems like an incredible amount of surgeries to put oneself through if she wasn't sure about how she'd feel with the end results.  

I was under the impression you had to go through all sorts of therapy before doctors would start any surgeries. I don't know if I was mistaken, or she has really bad doctors.

toolazy

toolazy

17 hours ago, millennium said:

I ran across this while researching something unrelated to Jenner.   It's a behind-the-scenes look at I AM CAIT and its titular star by Dr. Lillian Glass, the body language specialist who was hired by the show to teach Jenner to comport in a more feminine manner.   Dr. Glass' segment ultimately wound up on the cutting room floor, presumably because it cast Jenner in an unflattering light.

It's a stark contrast to the many puff pieces we read while the show was active.   Speaking of contrasts, Dr. Glass' observations on Jenner as compared to other transgender clients she has worked with are quite interesting and tend to validate widespread suspicions about the degree of Jenner's commitment to being a woman. 

Caitlyn Jenner’s Canceled Show May Be a Blessing In Disguise

Seems like there's some sour grapes going on there because this consultant didn't appreciate getting fired. 

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Almost 3000

Almost 3000

5 hours ago, iwasish said:

I imagine she spends most of her time up in her Malibu estate, dressed up and made up, alone , or with Rhonda. She ventures out for the occasional  trip to the grocery store or Starbucks, and a solitary round of golf or a day at the race track, alone in her car. 

Maybe she's content to be primped and pampered by her glam squad and trying on her newest outfit or admiring her collection of purses. 

Hopefully her older 4 kids keep in touch. Not sure about the younger ones or her step kids, I suspect those relationships have suffered. 

Now that she's become what she has always dreamed of does she look out over the beautiful landscape and wonder " is that all there is?" 

kokapetl

kokapetl

Perhaps Caitlyn held back for so long due to having realistic fears of the negative treatment that normal low profile experience. Now that money and jobs aren't an issue, She bought herself some of the surgery, and a mountaintop Malibu fortress that's basically almost in Ventura County. She'll get her peace and privacy there. A requirement that she "live as a woman full time, for two years" at this stage of her life is much easier than if it was during the training for decathlon by day, selling insurance door to door at night.  

millennium

millennium

2 hours ago, toolazy said:

Seems like there's some sour grapes going on there because this consultant didn't appreciate getting fired. 

You always wonder in situations like this, but it is not axiomatic that if someone gets fired everything they say about their experience is an untruth or "sour grapes."   I found her account credible and convincing because her observations about Jenner seem right on the mark. 

Perhaps her services were terminated because she's a professional who refused to pretend Jenner's presentation was just fine.   

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millennium

millennium

3 hours ago, GaT said:

 

I was under the impression you had to go through all sorts of therapy before doctors would start any surgeries. I don't know if I was mistaken, or she has really bad doctors.

The RLT - Real Life Transition - requirement (living AND working as a member of your chosen gender) is becoming less and less of a requirement than it used to be.   The thinking seems to be that it's unfair to make people suffer with gender dysphoria any longer than necessary.    Based on the Jenner story, I would say California's current laws and requirements amount to "Plucked her eyebrows on the way, shaved her legs and then he was a she."   I still can't believe how easily the courts granted Jenner legal female status.

The RLT was instituted to prevent confused or uncertain people from possibly making irreversible mistakes.   Of course, even when it was the standard requirement in the U.S., there was nothing to stop determined people from flying off to Mexico or Thailand and having the surgery.

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AnnieBeez

AnnieBeez

(edited)
On 10/10/2016 at 5:15 PM, millennium said:

I ran across this while researching something unrelated to Jenner.   It's a behind-the-scenes look at I AM CAIT and its titular star by Dr. Lillian Glass, the body language specialist who was hired by the show to teach Jenner to comport in a more feminine manner.   Dr. Glass' segment ultimately wound up on the cutting room floor, presumably because it cast Jenner in an unflattering light.

It's a stark contrast to the many puff pieces we read while the show was active.   Speaking of contrasts, Dr. Glass' observations on Jenner as compared to other transgender clients she has worked with are quite interesting and tend to validate widespread suspicions about the degree of Jenner's commitment to being a woman. 

Caitlyn Jenner’s Canceled Show May Be a Blessing In Disguise

I was put off by the author's blatant sour grapes at not being hired to help Caitlyn. She did make a good point about Caitlyn seeming more into playing dress-up than wanting to be a woman. I think that's been stated many times here and for quite a while. 

 

eta: didn't see toolazy's post! Yep, sour grapes. 

Edited by MischaMouse
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millennium

millennium

21 hours ago, MischaMouse said:

I was put off by the author's blatant sour grapes at not being hired to help Caitlyn. . 

I suspect it can be frustrating for a professional to see someone in such dire need of assistance reject help when it is available.    Dr. Glass has probably helped transgender people of lesser means work hard to present convincingly and realizes how important it is to those individuals.   Then along comes Jenner, posturing as though she represents all transgender people, but who can't be bothered to make an effort not to carry herself like a gorilla.   It irks me.  I may not be a body language expert but I am transgender and it annoys me to no end that this person who foisted herself on the public and pretends to speak for transgender women won't even try to speak like a transgender woman. 

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GaT

GaT

9 hours ago, toolazy said:

I'm not a big fan of Caitlyn Jenner but she has the right to be as masculine or as feminine as she chooses.  

She does, but she's the one who said:

Quote

The more as I proceed and go forward, it is important for me to try to project a good image for this community.

One thing that has always been important for me, and it may seem very self-absorbed or whatever, is first of all your presentation of who you are. I think it's much easier for a trans woman or a trans man who authentically kind of looks and plays the role.

So what I call my presentation. I try to take that seriously. I think it puts people at ease. If you're out there and, to be honest with you, if you look like a man in a dress, it makes people uncomfortable.

She's the one saying that a trans woman should look & play the role, so when she doesn't, it stands out.

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millennium

millennium

(edited)
14 hours ago, toolazy said:

I'm not a big fan of Caitlyn Jenner but she has the right to be as masculine or as feminine as she chooses.  

Yes, as long as she doesn't posture as the de facto national spokesperson for all transgender women.   Because most transgender women do not lumber around like men or speak in a gravelly old-man voice or shove food into their mouths like a good ol' boy chowing down at a tailgate party.   Most take their image very seriously, not only for the reasons I stated above, but because they understand that the impression they make on the public sets an example other transgender people will be judged by.

Jenner's defiant half-baked image gives the public the false impression that being transgender isn't a very serious thing at all -- that it's more about playing dress-up than a genuine change of life.   It undermines our credibility and puts us all at risk in terms of whether people will want to employ us, rent us housing, or even just let us use the damn bathroom.  

But based on what I have observed, Jenner doesn't worry about the impact she has on other transgender people's lives (despite all the lip service).   It's always been about Jenner and Jenner alone.   And, in a nutshell, that's why nobody likes her.

Edited by millennium
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